glutathione/ATP , AMP injection

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/25/2002 6:06:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,

gayu_pwc7@... writes:

> Hi Don,

>

> I read your previous posts in the archives about AMP. I was

> disappointed to know that its no longer available. Are you still in

> remission? What else have helped your dramatically?

>

Hi Gayathri.

No, I am not in remission. I have been unable to acquirer AMP. However, I

beleive if I knew then, what I know now about nutrition reguarding herpes.

The answer may have been different... I learned over the years, that a high

lysine low arginine diet is imperative. It keeps the virus from

replicating... While I was taking AMP, no one advised me of the nutritional

needs of this illness... So my answer to you reguarding what has helped

dramatically, would be nutritional diet. You have to monitor yourself, and

see what foods take you in one direction, or the other. Read and learn what

foods to eat, and not, reguarding herpes...

Reguarding AMP, I was told by Dr. Sklar that once it gets things under

control, you continue taking it, but less frequently. He explained to me that

once you have a herpes virus, you have it for life, but that AMP will let you

continue to have a normal life... When I was taking AMP, after the first

month I had tremendous improvement, in 3 months total remission. Seven month

later I had a relapse, this is when I returned to Dr Sklars office, and when

he explained to me what I said above, about taking it less frequently...but

not to stop taking it. Another researcher, from another list, had told me

that AMP interfers with the virus, and stops it from replicating. I know Dr

Sklar also told me that whenever he had a cold coming on, he would give

himself a shot of AMP, and it would stop it in its tracks. He also explained

to me that while you are on AMP, you will never catch a cold... He treated

his brotherinlaw for over 30 with AMP for MS. He explained to me also that,

MS is also herpes driven...By the way his brotherinlaw lived into his 80's,

and had a normal life. As you can see, DR Sklar was ahead of his time...

So you see, with the knowledge of nutrition that I have know, reguarding

herpes, I dont beleive I would have relapsed. In addition life changes should

of taken place as well, instead I went back to the same life style that

brought this on in the first place...

Respectfully,

Don

[Guest guest]

Hi Don,

I read your previous posts in the archives about AMP. I was

disappointed to know that its no longer available. Are you still in

remission? What else have helped your dramatically?

Rich, Don and all,

Also, since AMP is converted into ATP, wont ATP injections help as

well? Dr.Salvator's injection has glutathione and ATP in it.

And in her study, she found the glutathione injection itself was not

very helpfull, it needed to be combined with ATP to be more

efficient.

Thanks

Gayathri.

[Guest guest]

> Also, since AMP is converted into ATP...

Gayathri -- I not sure AMP is converted into ATP. I read that when

someone first contracts CFS, the body activates a metabolic pathway

that increases the rate of conversion of ATP to cyclic AMP, which is

used for immune system stimulation.

Apparently, CFS patients have difficulty shutting down this pathway,

when it is no longer required. This inability to properly regulate

the pathway leads to ATP loss.

- don

[Guest guest]

> I learned over the years, that a high lysine low arginine diet is

imperative...

Why? I thought that both amino acids are necessary for the

production of AMP? BTW, what foods are high in lysine and low in

arginine?

thanks,

don

[Guest guest]

Gayathri,

Yes, I'm aware of Dr. Salvato's use of glutathione combined with

ATP. I don't understand how the ATP works in this treatment. ATP

is primarily an intracellular substance, made and used inside the

cells. There is some outside the cells that is used in signalling.

Perhaps that's what it does in this treatment.

It's true that AMP can be phosphorylated twice and can become ATP.

I'm also not clear on how AMP works as a treatment for CFS. This is

one possibility. It may also be operating directly on the herpes

viruses, as Dr. Sklar found. It may have other roles in stimulating

parts of the metabolism. I think there are still quite a few

unknowns about how these things work in CFS.

Rich

--- In , " gayu_pwc7

>

> Rich, Don and all,

>

> Also, since AMP is converted into ATP, wont ATP injections help as

> well? Dr.Salvator's injection has glutathione and ATP in it.

> And in her study, she found the glutathione injection itself was

not

> very helpfull, it needed to be combined with ATP to be more

> efficient.

[Guest guest]

Don,

Nuts and chocolate are both high in arginine. Animal-based proteins

are high in lysine. Lysine is an essential amino acid. Arginine is

not, since the body can make it from other amino acids.

Rich

> > I learned over the years, that a high lysine low arginine diet

is

> imperative...

>

> Why? I thought that both amino acids are necessary for the

> production of AMP? BTW, what foods are high in lysine and low in

> arginine?

>

> thanks,

> don

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/26/2002 2:33:07 AM Eastern Standard Time,

don@... writes:

> Why? I thought that both amino acids are necessary for the

> production of AMP? BTW, what foods are high in lysine and low in

> arginine?

>

> thanks,

> don

>

Hi Don,

I was told many years ago by a Dr, that the whites of the egg produces high

levels AMP... I have several raw a day in my nutritional drinks... Not just

the whites, but the entire egg... You always want to have, what ever you are

eating, in its whole live form. Also they should be preferly free range and

organic.. I have my own chickens, I never refrigerate my eggs, it changes the

molecular structure. A egg left out of the frig can last for 2 months, if

they are turned over every 3 days... I have sold some to a fellow who crossed

the Atlantic on his sailboat following my instructions. When he returned, he

confirmed that all the eggs never spoiled... The food we eat becomes

metabolized, and produces AMP. . Remember AMP is produced by our

metabolism...

PS: Free range eggs will not give you cholesterol...dispite the myths...

Go to WestonAPrice.org and learn all about great nutrition

Respectfully,

Don

[Guest guest]

AMP is still available.

It is sold as a pure USP powder.

I would assume it is not injectable grade , however.

Too, I do not know what the " gel " was, that slowed down the

absorbtion of the injection that was used originally.

There is a fellow on the internet by the name of Goodshape.

He runs a site about his wife, who has MS. I think you could learn

something about getting AMP there. Type in Goodshape and histamine

into a search engine and it should pull something up.

Ah! Got it

http://www.goodshape.net

Alternatively, a place on the net called Dancing Bee Acres has info.

about it. I think you would have to call them. Anyway, the pure

powder is available. I have not tried it.

Zippy

[Guest guest]

Hi, could you tell me exactly where you found the information about the AMP

powder. On the Goodshape site there is mention of it in a heading at his

message forum, and mention of his wife's using it, but that's it. Nothing about

where to acquire it. I also searched the Dancing Bees site, which is

interesting, but zero mention of AMP. Perhaps I missed it so if you know

exactly where to look, would you let me know.

Thanks,

Re: glutathione/ATP , AMP injection

AMP is still available.

It is sold as a pure USP powder.

I would assume it is not injectable grade , however.

Too, I do not know what the " gel " was, that slowed down the

absorbtion of the injection that was used originally.

There is a fellow on the internet by the name of Goodshape.

He runs a site about his wife, who has MS. I think you could learn

something about getting AMP there. Type in Goodshape and histamine

into a search engine and it should pull something up.

Ah! Got it

http://www.goodshape.net

Alternatively, a place on the net called Dancing Bee Acres has info.

about it. I think you would have to call them. Anyway, the pure

powder is available. I have not tried it.

Zippy

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/26/02 7:41:50 AM Eastern Standard Time,

writes:

> I learned over the years, that a high lysine low arginine diet is

> imperative...

>

I tried taking large doses of lysine--500 mg in b/t meals 5 times day and I

did not feel better and in fact felt worse during the quick experiment that I

soon ended w/i a few days of not feeling bad (not that I know the lysine was

what was making me feel bad as indeed perhaps I might have felt that bad had

I not been taking lysine at the time), but all in all I can say I certainly

did not feel better. I have also been taking 1 gram of BHT every day to

combat EBV. Has it worked? I had MDL testing and the PCR came back negative

but I never had PCR before I began so I don't know other than I had very high

levels of antibodies, IgG/IgM and nuclear. Btw, I still don't understand

what the hell nuclear is. Rich or anyone here, can you explain this? My EBV

couple months ago for instance showed 200 nuclear when below 20 is negative.

Anyway, I should probably have antibodies redone in 2-3 weeks perhaps and see

if the BHT really did eradicate EBV. If it did then I sure don't feel like a

new man from it and would be hard pressed to blame my CFS on EBV. I also

have completed my 2nd month as of this morning of the Chisolm TF which treats

for EBV. I understand it takes 3 months to really give TF a good trial and

so I will be on it for one more month before taking a break from it. I

cannot say TF is a waste of money as it seems to help some perhaps but I'm

not too sure of this either. I started BHT and TF at relatively the same

time.

[Guest guest]

There are several theories that antibiotics could be helping for reasons

other than killing off bacteria (at least mycoplasma or staph or the other

bacteria we have talked about mostly.) One is that it kills of bad bacteria

in the gut, which helps. Another theory is that some antibiotics,

doxycycline in particular, may prevent gene rearrangement which may be going

on in CFS.

To your other email about gluathione not being the answer... I don't for a

minute question that we get viruses and bacteria, and they are responsible

for a lot of our symptoms. But I have a hard time believing they are the

cause, because a) why don't other people get these chronic infections? and

too many times I have had a specific virus or bacteria and gotten rid of

it, only to get sick again later with another one. There has to be

something that makes us susceptible. I don't know if it is glutathione that

is responsible, but I can say for myself that I was taking 8 Tylenol on

average per day for years before I got CFS, and tylenol depletes

glutathione. (Not to mention a mouth full of mercury that depletes

glutathione.) On the other hand, there may have been something wrong with

me (some intracellular bacteria for example) that made me have the sinus

problems and headaches in the first place and that was why I needed the

Tylenol.

Thanks,

Doris

----- Original Message -----

From: " Bob " <blue74730@...>

> Don, I am not a dr, scienctist or even biology major. Just a person who

has had this illness for 27 years. You mentioned in prior post about working

with some dr or sceinctist and I was wondering what your backgroud is? What

I am wondering about is why is it that researchers do not seem interested in

things that seem to me, they should be? Like I am CFS symptom free now for

the 10 days I have been taking an antibiotic for sinus infection, still have

the infection. According to what I have read, I will have a relapse. Why

wouldn't researchers be looking at what is happening to cause people to go

into " remission " for short periods while on AB use, then crash? does tht

mean the AB is suppressing a bacterial infection and we feel good but it

doesn't kill off all of the bacteria, thus it grows back? I wonder if

researchers have studied people that have gone into " remission " to see what

is different about them, then look at them when they relapse. Maybe these

are just naive thoughts.

>

> Bob

[Guest guest]

" Why

wouldn't researchers be looking at what is happening to cause people to go

into " remission " for short periods while on AB use, then crash? "

Antibiotics kill the good bacteria,too.They also createa load on the liver.

Don't they?May be that is why we crash afterwards.

Thanks Nil

Re: Re: glutathione/ATP , AMP injection

| There are several theories that antibiotics could be helping for reasons

| other than killing off bacteria (at least mycoplasma or staph or the other

| bacteria we have talked about mostly.) One is that it kills of bad

bacteria

| in the gut, which helps. Another theory is that some antibiotics,

| doxycycline in particular, may prevent gene rearrangement which may be

going

| on in CFS.

|

| To your other email about gluathione not being the answer... I don't for a

| minute question that we get viruses and bacteria, and they are responsible

| for a lot of our symptoms. But I have a hard time believing they are the

| cause, because a) why don't other people get these chronic infections? and

| too many times I have had a specific virus or bacteria and gotten rid

of

| it, only to get sick again later with another one. There has to be

| something that makes us susceptible. I don't know if it is glutathione

that

| is responsible, but I can say for myself that I was taking 8 Tylenol on

| average per day for years before I got CFS, and tylenol depletes

| glutathione. (Not to mention a mouth full of mercury that depletes

| glutathione.) On the other hand, there may have been something wrong with

| me (some intracellular bacteria for example) that made me have the sinus

| problems and headaches in the first place and that was why I needed the

| Tylenol.

|

| Thanks,

| Doris

| ----- Original Message -----

| From: " Bob " <blue74730@...>

|

| > Don, I am not a dr, scienctist or even biology major. Just a person who

| has had this illness for 27 years. You mentioned in prior post about

working

| with some dr or sceinctist and I was wondering what your backgroud is?

What

| I am wondering about is why is it that researchers do not seem interested

in

| things that seem to me, they should be? Like I am CFS symptom free now for

| the 10 days I have been taking an antibiotic for sinus infection, still

have

| the infection. According to what I have read, I will have a relapse. Why

| wouldn't researchers be looking at what is happening to cause people to go

| into " remission " for short periods while on AB use, then crash? does tht

| mean the AB is suppressing a bacterial infection and we feel good but it

| doesn't kill off all of the bacteria, thus it grows back? I wonder if

| researchers have studied people that have gone into " remission " to see

what

| is different about them, then look at them when they relapse. Maybe these

| are just naive thoughts.

| >

| > Bob

|

|

| This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

|

|

[Guest guest]

>I was taking 8 Tylenol on average per day for years before I got

CFS, and tylenol depletes glutathione. (Not to mention a mouth full

of mercury that depletes glutathione.)

Yikes Doris, I have been taking a lot of hydrocodone (which also

contains acetaminophen) for years! I figured my mercury fillings

(which have been removed) were the major culprit in lowering my

glutathione levels--but I never heard that tylenol also depletes it.

I have been slowly tappering off this narcotic, but it seems to help

with many of my CFS symptoms, so its hard. Now I have more reason

than ever to get off it entirely.

Thanks,

don

[Guest guest]

Dear Don:

In reference to acetominopin you can kill yourself / or liver much easier with

Tylenol than with aspirin due to the fact that Tylenol uses up glutathione in

your liver to process and detoxify it. You mentioned hydrocodone. I must say

that the fact that you said it made you feel better helped me understand why I

have been taking it. I have been taking some because it seemed to make me feel

better - not high or anything but better, and I thought I was imagining it.

Thank you for validating what my body already knew. Of course the hydrocodone I

take is for my migraines and then I end up with none when I have a headache, but

I just can't seem to help myself because I have so much energy on it. Otherwise

I just lay on the couch and read or if I have to do something it is a major

effort. Of course I must stop using it for what it isn't prescribed to me for,

but at least I know now why I was attracted to taking it. Any comments?

Best Regards,

Teena

Re: glutathione/ATP , AMP injection

>I was taking 8 Tylenol on average per day for years before I got

CFS, and tylenol depletes glutathione. (Not to mention a mouth full

of mercury that depletes glutathione.)

Yikes Doris, I have been taking a lot of hydrocodone (which also

contains acetaminophen) for years! I figured my mercury fillings

(which have been removed) were the major culprit in lowering my

glutathione levels--but I never heard that tylenol also depletes it.

I have been slowly tappering off this narcotic, but it seems to help

with many of my CFS symptoms, so its hard. Now I have more reason

than ever to get off it entirely.

Thanks,

don

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Hi Teena,

It's nice to hear someone else has had the same experience with CFS

and Hydrocodone. For a long time, it was the only thing that seemed

to pump up my energy level and, strangely enough, my immune system,

without leading to a crash. Although I took a pharmacology course

about narcotics back in college, I don't recall how opiates affect

the body. My guess is that they must stimulate the adrenal glands,

but how does that explain the immune system boost? Maybe the drug

somehow stimulates my immune system, making it go into hyper-drive.

I certainly never got sick.

I came down with CFS in 1992, and eventually got quite a bit better

(from 10% to 90% on the Functionality scale). Then, in 1999, I

pushed way too hard for way too long (--almost six months of long

days writing a book). After a major crash on Christmas Eve in 99,

not even the Hydrocodone did much for me for a long time. Perhaps I

had finally exhausted my poor adrenal glands and immune system?

After three years of setbacks, I'm now slowly recovering, with lots

of rest, moderate anaerobic exercise, and all kinds of supplements.

BTW, I felt guilty too when I using Hydrocodone for CFS instead of

back pain. But, for many years, nothing else helped relive the CFS

symptoms. It allowed me to stay working.

- don

> Dear Don:

>

> In reference to acetominopin you can kill yourself / or liver much

easier with Tylenol than with aspirin due to the fact that Tylenol

uses up glutathione in your liver to process and detoxify it. You

mentioned hydrocodone. I must say that the fact that you said it made

you feel better helped me understand why I have been taking it. I

have been taking some because it seemed to make me feel better - not

high or anything but better, and I thought I was imagining it. Thank

you for validating what my body already knew. Of course the

hydrocodone I take is for my migraines and then I end up with none

when I have a headache, but I just can't seem to help myself because

I have so much energy on it. Otherwise I just lay on the couch and

read or if I have to do something it is a major effort. Of course I

must stop using it for what it isn't prescribed to me for, but at

least I know now why I was attracted to taking it. Any comments?

>

> Best Regards,

>

> Teena

> Re: glutathione/ATP , AMP injection

>

>

> >I was taking 8 Tylenol on average per day for years before I got

> CFS, and tylenol depletes glutathione. (Not to mention a mouth

full

> of mercury that depletes glutathione.)

>

> Yikes Doris, I have been taking a lot of hydrocodone (which also

> contains acetaminophen) for years! I figured my mercury fillings

> (which have been removed) were the major culprit in lowering my

> glutathione levels--but I never heard that tylenol also depletes

it.

>

> I have been slowly tappering off this narcotic, but it seems to

help

> with many of my CFS symptoms, so its hard. Now I have more

reason

> than ever to get off it entirely.

>

> Thanks,

> don

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences

with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested

in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Raw egg whites contain a protein called avidin that binds to and destroys

biotin. If you regularly eat raw eggs you need to supplement biotin.

++PLS

Re: Re: glutathione/ATP , AMP injection

In a message dated 12/26/2002 2:33:07 AM Eastern Standard Time,

don@... writes:

> Why? I thought that both amino acids are necessary for the

> production of AMP? BTW, what foods are high in lysine and low in

> arginine?

>

> thanks,

> don

>

Hi Don,

I was told many years ago by a Dr, that the whites of the egg produces high

levels AMP... I have several raw a day in my nutritional drinks... Not

just

the whites, but the entire egg... You always want to have, what ever you are

eating, in its whole live form. Also they should be preferly free range and

organic.. I have my own chickens, I never refrigerate my eggs, it changes

the

molecular structure. A egg left out of the frig can last for 2 months, if

they are turned over every 3 days... I have sold some to a fellow who

crossed

the Atlantic on his sailboat following my instructions. When he returned, he

confirmed that all the eggs never spoiled... The food we eat becomes

metabolized, and produces AMP. . Remember AMP is produced by our

metabolism...

PS: Free range eggs will not give you cholesterol...dispite the myths...

Go to WestonAPrice.org and learn all about great nutrition

Respectfully,

Don