Guest guest Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 I went to see my ND today to get my Drs Data urine toxic metals test results. I was kind of shocked he didnt' think they were very 'bad'. He says his own were even worse, he had a number of 28 (normal is under 4) and he is healthy, but a few years ago he had all his mercury out and chelated with DMSA. He wasnt' taking any chances with that stuff in his mouth. But the chart it gives says mine is 14 and that puts it in the middle of the 'very high' range according to their own chart. So not sure why he did not think it was high. I wonder if one as impaired as we cfs patients are can even release the merc decently from a DMPS oral challenge???? I KNOW I'm loaded with merc cause the dentist took out that leaking filling and saw it had been leaking under the gumline for years and my glut. tested to low. The only other thing that came back in the high range was tin. Wonder why? Wonder if that was in that bridge I had drilled off? Normal is under 10, mine is 33. The other thing they test is Creatinine. Normal is 35 to 225 and mine is 33. Very low. I'm sorry, I know you've written about creatinine but I can't remember any of what you said it means if its low? Does this fit with the rest of my screwed up methylation picture? Should I supplement Creatine do you think? or ???? So he agreed tho that it wouldn't hurt to do some DMSA now and see what happens. He does the 3 days on and 11 off like the DAN! group. He is clueless about all the methylation info, altho he did dispense me the methyl b12 injectable several months ago. I ordered the Pangborn book from Amazon and had not had mental energy to even crack it open, so deciced to take it with me today to offer to let the ND read it a couple weeks if he wants to till my next visit, he grabbed at that, so I hope he can find some time to read it. He said it would be a good idea to start the DMSA after my next myers and glut. IV so my nutritional status doing it will be at top levels for me. So I will also have blood drawn to retest my RBC glut before I get the next myers/glut IV and then get that and bring home the DMSA and start 3 days on the day after I think. He says if I have bad reactions I can quit or cut back so he's going to be pretty easy to work with on this part I think. Also, was wondering if you had a chance to ask your Sparx friend if he knows when they will be making their new batch without lecithin and with the folinic acid? Thanks again Rich, you are so appreciated :-) Marcia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Hi, Marcia. > > I went to see my ND today to get my Drs Data urine toxic metals test results. I was kind of shocked he didnt' think they were very 'bad'. He says his own were even worse, he had a number of 28 (normal is under 4) and he is healthy, but a few years ago he had all his mercury out and chelated with DMSA. He wasnt' taking any chances with that stuff in his mouth. But the chart it gives says mine is 14 and that puts it in the middle of the 'very high' range according to their own chart. So not sure why he did not think it was high. I wonder if one as impaired as we cfs patients are can even release the merc decently from a DMPS oral challenge???? I KNOW I'm loaded with merc cause the dentist took out that leaking filling and saw it had been leaking under the gumline for years and my glut. tested to low. ***I think this result is significant, and it seems to agree with your history, so I believe it. When a person has more than one metal in their body, these metals compete for the chelator, such as DMSA. Some metals bind more strongly than others, so this type of test is difficult to interpret quantitatively when more than one metal is present. But this value is high enough to be meaningful. The real quantitative value in this type of testing is in the comparison of tests taken in sequence during the chelation. > > The only other thing that came back in the high range was tin. Wonder why? Wonder if that was in that bridge I had drilled off? Normal is under 10, mine is 33. ***Tin is abundant in dental amalgam alloys. The older alloy, used from about 1900 until about 1970 or so (in the U.S.) was a low- copper alloy, containing mercury, silver, tin and copper. After mixing, placing in a tooth, and reacting to the degree it did, this alloy produced a non-homogeneous, two-phase mixture. One of the phases was made up of mercury and tin (the " gamma-2 phase " ). As you may know, when you have two metallic phases of different composition in electrical contact with each other and with an electrolyte (in this case, saliva) you get preferential corrosion of the less-noble phase. In this case, that was the gamma-2 phase, so the corrosion released tin and mercury. That's why tin and mercury show up in chelator-provoked urine testing in people who have older amalgam fillings. The newer high-copper alloys are more corrosion- resistant, and do not have the weak gamma-2 phase. If you want to learn more about all this, check this website, by a materials science professor from Cornell: http://www.mse.cornell.edu/courses/engri119/Class_Notes/amalgam_techn ical.html ***Tin is not very toxic, particularly as compared with mercury. That's why tin has been used for tin cans (actually tin-plated steel) used as food containers and in solder for copper water pipes. The other thing they test is Creatinine. Normal is 35 to 225 and mine is 33. Very low. I'm sorry, I know you've written about creatinine but I can't remember any of what you said it means if its low? Does this fit with the rest of my screwed up methylation picture? Should I supplement Creatine do you think? or ???? ***Creatinine comes from the the breakdown of creatine. It occurs at a steady rate, depending on the amount of creatine, which depends on muscle mass. Assuming that your kidneys are working O.K., a low creatinine production suggests low total skeletal muscle mass or low production of creatine. Creatine requires methylation for its production. Given your other lab results and history, I suspect that your low creatinine is at least partly due to low creatine production, which in turn is a result of low methylation capacity, because of a block in your methylation cycle. > > So he agreed tho that it wouldn't hurt to do some DMSA now and see what happens. He does the 3 days on and 11 off like the DAN! group. He is clueless about all the methylation info, altho he did dispense me the methyl b12 injectable several months ago. I ordered the Pangborn book from Amazon and had not had mental energy to even crack it open, so deciced to take it with me today to offer to let the ND read it a couple weeks if he wants to till my next visit, he grabbed at that, so I hope he can find some time to read it. ***I hope so, too. > > He said it would be a good idea to start the DMSA after my next myers and glut. IV so my nutritional status doing it will be at top levels for me. So I will also have blood drawn to retest my RBC glut before I get the next myers/glut IV and then get that and bring home the DMSA and start 3 days on the day after I think. He says if I have bad reactions I can quit or cut back so he's going to be pretty easy to work with on this part I think. ***This sounds good. > > Also, was wondering if you had a chance to ask your Sparx friend if he knows when they will be making their new batch without lecithin and with the folinic acid? ***Yes, I did. Unfortunately, he told me that he recently received a new batch, so it may be some months before he orders a new one. > > Thanks again Rich, you are so appreciated :-) > > Marcia > You're welcome, Marcia. I hope your chelation goes well. Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 ***I think this result is significant, and it seems to agree with your history, so I believe it. When a person has more than one metal in their body, these metals compete for the chelator, such as DMSA. Some metals bind more strongly than others, so this type of test is difficult to interpret quantitatively when more than one metal is present. But this value is high enough to be meaningful. The real quantitative value in this type of testing is in the comparison of tests taken in sequence during the chelation. Hi Rich, it will probably be awhile before I can afford to do the test again, everything I'm doing with this kind of testing is out of pocket (ouch). But I'll try again somewhere down the road. ***Tin is abundant in dental amalgam alloys. The older alloy, used from about 1900 until about 1970 or so (in the U.S.) was a low- copper alloy, containing mercury, silver, tin and copper. After mixing, placing in a tooth, and reacting to the degree it did, this alloy produced a non-homogeneous, two-phase mixture. One of the phases was made up of mercury and tin (the " gamma-2 phase " ). As you may know, when you have two metallic phases of different composition in electrical contact with each other and with an electrolyte (in this case, saliva) you get preferential corrosion of the less-noble phase. In this case, that was the gamma-2 phase, so the corrosion released tin and mercury. That's why tin and mercury show up in chelator-provoked urine testing in people who have older amalgam fillings. The newer high-copper alloys are more corrosion- resistant, and do not have the weak gamma-2 phase. If you want to learn more about all this, check this website, by a materials science professor from Cornell: thanks for all this info Rich, that helps clear things up on the tin, I will study this too when I get a chance.... http://www.mse.cornell.edu/courses/engri119/Class_Notes/amalgam_techn ical.html ***Tin is not very toxic, particularly as compared with mercury. That's why tin has been used for tin cans (actually tin-plated steel) used as food containers and in solder for copper water pipes. well, at least 'that' is some good news! ***Creatinine comes from the the breakdown of creatine. It occurs at a steady rate, depending on the amount of creatine, which depends on muscle mass. Assuming that your kidneys are working O.K., a low creatinine production suggests low total skeletal muscle mass or low production of creatine. Creatine requires methylation for its production. Given your other lab results and history, I suspect that your low creatinine is at least partly due to low creatine production, which in turn is a result of low methylation capacity, because of a block in your methylation cycle. well, again, it all fits, doesn't it? I have read research in the past ( a couple yrs ago) indicating that cfs patients are low in creatine, and that when given it helped but the effects were short term and that was my reaction to it too when I tried it. I did take it sometimes last summer especially when I was going to do anything physical, it did seem to help a little, but only a few hours. SO, should I be taking it again now? Its one of the rare things I seem to tolerate ok. Will taking that in any way relate to building the glutathione? ***Yes, I did. Unfortunately, he told me that he recently received a new batch, so it may be some months before he orders a new one. Okay, thanks for checking with him. I guess I'll wait 4 or so months maybe and check again and see if I can order it then. There is just no point in ordering anymore things I can't tolerate, I have a boat load of them ( I could have BOUGHT a boat with the money too!) > Thanks for the info Rich! Marcia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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