Re: Interesting theories Penny - p.s.

[Guest guest]

P.S. For the most part, I'm not in favor of biological dentists

either, as suggseted in that article. There's a lot of stuff I don't

agree with there, but then he's a dentist, what can you expect? :-)

I do agree that people need to understand what they're subjecting

themselves to when they sit down in that dental chair.

I AM in favor of finding infectious disease doctors and cranial

surgeons, and those rare ENTs and others who DO understand bacteria,

infections, bone infections, and will test and treat properly.

We're much better off researching literature about orthopedic

infections to understand what's going on in our heads than dental

literature. Our dental professionals are not trained to understand

infections at all.

penny

> > > Yeah, this common stitching up of dental extractions makes no

> sense

> > > when the research shows leaving wounds open is important to

> rapid

> > > healing. To stitch up an area in your mouth that's probably

been

> > > exposed to massive amounts of resistant bugs living in the

> dentist

> > > office makes no sense at all. The extraction itself promotes

> > > infection, then add a bunch of new bugs and you've got a

recipe

> for

> > > disaster. Bacteria can travel through the miles of dentin

> tubules

> > > you have, and next thing you know, you've got a systemic

> infection.

> > >

> > > :-(

> > >

> > > penny

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi again Penny,

I really MUST go and lie down but I didnt want to ignore you.

I must protest your accusations, by saying that I am definitely not

brainwashed; and I do have a mind of my own,

but I dont disagree with you at all that dentistry is extremely dodgy.

But teeth and gums WILL go bad on us and what are we to do.

Before dentistry people died from bad teeth.

if nothing is done at all then I believe that the resulting

infection could cause death by blood poisoning or even infect the

brain I shouldnt wonder-

not to mention the agony of walking around every day with all those

rotting teeth and infected gums.

and so far there arent many alternatives to dentists,

doctors certainly dont know much about teeth as a rule.

I am not a fan of allopathic medicine of ANY type nowadays,

not at all.

When there is an alternative available I think we would be better to

use it. Of course allopathic medicine does save lives, and we should

remember that before we decode to throw the baby out with the

bathwater, take a simple thing like an appendicectomy for example.

The fact is, that I think that ALL of the drugs my doctor dishes out

are pretty horrific just for starters; and I am repeatedly shocked at

how little she understands about the human body;

and it is a very, very long time since I was a niave young

apprentice dental assistant;

Since then, during a remission, I worked for a year in a Natural

Therapy Centre and became a third degree Reiki master/teacher myself;

and I also did a very short course in 'touch for health' (a type of

Kinesiology);

Not to mention that I read every single natural therapy book in their

library too,

so I definitely dont think anything like any dentist I have ever met

in my whole life lol!!!

My point was:

that you missed completely;

that in your rush and anger and haste and 'frustration' to tell us

how you think it is,

you in fact made a number of quite wild and imaginative statements

about dentistry, disregarding the 'miles of dental tubules' comment.

I am wondering if you might, just as likely, be misunderstanding a

few other things too,

regarding any of the subjects you have been 'researching';

more especially if you have a ME/CFS/FMS type illness yourself which

causes brainfog.

If you didnt check your facts about dentistry, what makes me sure

that you are carefully checking your facts about everything else?

At the end of the day, though, even if I am not confident about your

accuracy, I still find your theories quite interesting;

But I still think that we should perhaps try to avoid using

absolutes as a matter of course;

and it might be good if you tried to qualify some of your personal

opinions with special phrases such as:

I think....

I feel that.....

In my opinion....

from what I have heard/read about this, I think....

Perhaps it might be....

maybe it could be....

I totally understand where you are coming from though, Penny,

and can Identify with your feelings of frustration,

like I said before, we are both on the same 'side'.

But when we are frustrated and we get hasty we can sometimes get our

facts completely wrong, and if you are feeling very frustrated and

under pressure may I suggest that perhaps you would explain yourself

better, a bit later on, after taking a rest and trying to relax a bit

first.

Anyway that is what I am going to go and do myself, right now.

I am not frustrated with you or anyone else though lol,

just in a great deal of pain, and my brain is about as foggy as a

brain can get.

Nice chatting,

my very best wishes

xx

> > > > Yeah, this common stitching up of dental extractions makes no

> > sense

> > > > when the research shows leaving wounds open is important to

> > rapid

> > > > healing. To stitch up an area in your mouth that's probably

> been

> > > > exposed to massive amounts of resistant bugs living in the

> > dentist

> > > > office makes no sense at all. The extraction itself promotes

> > > > infection, then add a bunch of new bugs and you've got a

> recipe

> > for

> > > > disaster. Bacteria can travel through the miles of dentin

> > tubules

> > > > you have, and next thing you know, you've got a systemic

> > infection.

> > > >

> > > > :-(

> > > >

> > > > penny

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Penny,

If I were to give you all the " due respect " you deserve it would be a

LOT OF RESPECT. You rule, sister. Over the years I have known you I

have nothing but respect for you even when you and I have disagreed.

We have always shared decent, honest debate. I hope you are doing

well!!!!

With love and respect,

a

>

> Hi again Penny,

>

> I really MUST go and lie down but I didnt want to ignore you.

>

> I must protest your accusations, by saying that I am definitely not

> brainwashed; and I do have a mind of my own,

> but I dont disagree with you at all that dentistry is extremely

dodgy.

>

> But teeth and gums WILL go bad on us and what are we to do.

> Before dentistry people died from bad teeth.

> if nothing is done at all then I believe that the resulting

> infection could cause death by blood poisoning or even infect the

> brain I shouldnt wonder-

> not to mention the agony of walking around every day with all those

> rotting teeth and infected gums.

> and so far there arent many alternatives to dentists,

> doctors certainly dont know much about teeth as a rule.

>

> I am not a fan of allopathic medicine of ANY type nowadays,

> not at all.

> When there is an alternative available I think we would be better

to

> use it. Of course allopathic medicine does save lives, and we

should

> remember that before we decode to throw the baby out with the

> bathwater, take a simple thing like an appendicectomy for example.

>

> The fact is, that I think that ALL of the drugs my doctor dishes

out

> are pretty horrific just for starters; and I am repeatedly shocked

at

> how little she understands about the human body;

> and it is a very, very long time since I was a niave young

> apprentice dental assistant;

>

> Since then, during a remission, I worked for a year in a Natural

> Therapy Centre and became a third degree Reiki master/teacher

myself;

> and I also did a very short course in 'touch for health' (a type of

> Kinesiology);

> Not to mention that I read every single natural therapy book in

their

> library too,

> so I definitely dont think anything like any dentist I have ever

met

> in my whole life lol!!!

>

> My point was:

> that you missed completely;

> that in your rush and anger and haste and 'frustration' to tell us

> how you think it is,

> you in fact made a number of quite wild and imaginative statements

> about dentistry, disregarding the 'miles of dental tubules' comment.

>

> I am wondering if you might, just as likely, be misunderstanding a

> few other things too,

> regarding any of the subjects you have been 'researching';

> more especially if you have a ME/CFS/FMS type illness yourself

which

> causes brainfog.

>

> If you didnt check your facts about dentistry, what makes me sure

> that you are carefully checking your facts about everything else?

>

> At the end of the day, though, even if I am not confident about

your

> accuracy, I still find your theories quite interesting;

>

> But I still think that we should perhaps try to avoid using

> absolutes as a matter of course;

> and it might be good if you tried to qualify some of your personal

> opinions with special phrases such as:

> I think....

> I feel that.....

> In my opinion....

> from what I have heard/read about this, I think....

> Perhaps it might be....

> maybe it could be....

>

> I totally understand where you are coming from though, Penny,

> and can Identify with your feelings of frustration,

> like I said before, we are both on the same 'side'.

>

> But when we are frustrated and we get hasty we can sometimes get

our

> facts completely wrong, and if you are feeling very frustrated and

> under pressure may I suggest that perhaps you would explain

yourself

> better, a bit later on, after taking a rest and trying to relax a

bit

> first.

>

> Anyway that is what I am going to go and do myself, right now.

>

> I am not frustrated with you or anyone else though lol,

> just in a great deal of pain, and my brain is about as foggy as a

> brain can get.

>

> Nice chatting,

> my very best wishes

> xx

>

>

>

>

> > > > > Yeah, this common stitching up of dental extractions makes

no

> > > sense

> > > > > when the research shows leaving wounds open is important to

> > > rapid

> > > > > healing. To stitch up an area in your mouth that's probably

> > been

> > > > > exposed to massive amounts of resistant bugs living in the

> > > dentist

> > > > > office makes no sense at all. The extraction itself

promotes

> > > > > infection, then add a bunch of new bugs and you've got a

> > recipe

> > > for

> > > > > disaster. Bacteria can travel through the miles of dentin

> > > tubules

> > > > > you have, and next thing you know, you've got a systemic

> > > infection.

> > > > >

> > > > > :-(

> > > > >

> > > > > penny

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, I'm very tired too. Too much ranting. I'll read your whole post

later, but just wanted to say quickly that I wasn't singling you out

as " brainwashed " . Because I believe we've all been brainwashed and

continue to be. It gets me extremely riled up. The medical community

is failing us. Of course, stress doesn't help, so I'll try to give

us all a break. :-)

penny

> > > > > Yeah, this common stitching up of dental extractions makes

no

> > > sense

> > > > > when the research shows leaving wounds open is important

to

> > > rapid

> > > > > healing. To stitch up an area in your mouth that's

probably

> > been

> > > > > exposed to massive amounts of resistant bugs living in the

> > > dentist

> > > > > office makes no sense at all. The extraction itself

promotes

> > > > > infection, then add a bunch of new bugs and you've got a

> > recipe

> > > for

> > > > > disaster. Bacteria can travel through the miles of dentin

> > > tubules

> > > > > you have, and next thing you know, you've got a systemic

> > > infection.

> > > > >

> > > > > :-(

> > > > >

> > > > > penny

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

In the old days, they just pulled the teeth. Probably a much safer

course of action. Plus, back then we didn't have these horrible

diets with refined sugars, making the situation even worse.

But the point is, dentistry is making our lives WAY worse, not

better. And sadly, it's not just dentistry.

You might think I'm bonkers, but I've been around a long time. I've

tried just about every therapy, natural and allopathic, known to man

and animal. I really do know what I'm talking about, I'm very

confident of it even if I sound like a lunatic today.

I've talked to a lot of sick people. And I know without any doubt

what someday everyone's going to know and that is a big, big part of

the chronic illness picture is created by treatable infections. And

it's the bacteria and its resulting toxins and inflammation that's

making us sick.

But as a community, we pay very little quality attention to it. Our

doctors pay none. We don't even get up in arms at how the lack of

simple bacteria identification and negligent misuse of antibiotics

is making our whole society sicker. How the lack of testing &

guesswork treatment is creating monster bugs that we can't fight

off. We just say antibiotics are bad. Not... " why aren't we being

treated with antibiotics properly? " .

So we keep recycling the same old theories with new names...vitamin

deficiencies, nutrient depletion, environmental toxins, govt.

conspiracies, and we treat with a myriad of immune boosting powders

and supplements, H202 & vitamin infusions, chelation, mercury

removal, innumerable natural remedies treating unknown causes. It

goes on and on and on and on, and we never make any real progress.

I just want to cry. I think all of these treatments definitely have

merit and a potential place of importance, but WHY CAN'T WE GET THE

MEDICAL COMMUNITY TO DO IT'S MOST BASIC JOB? IT'S SIMPLE. TEST US

AND OUR CHILDREN APPROPRIATELY, TREAT APPROPRIATELY. COMPILE THE

DATA FOR FUTURE PREVENTION. IT MAY COST THEM MORE IN THE SHORT TERM,

BUT IT WILL SAVE SO MUCH IN THE LONG RUN.

Seriously, I challenge you. Look up some simple pet illness symptoms

on the internet. Example " lethargic, whining, etc " . You'll probably

get zillions of hits on things like Urinary Tract Infection. You

know what the protocol is? 1. Get dog's urine tested for bacterial

infection. 2. Identify organism (even common ones like staph or

strep). 3. Test for antibiotic sensitivities and resistance. 4.

Treat accordingly. 5. Retest for organisms once symptoms are gone to

be sure infection is cleared.

I ask you, why can't we or our children, get at least the same BASIC

care our dogS can????

penny

>

> Hi again Penny,

>

> I really MUST go and lie down but I didnt want to ignore you.

>

> I must protest your accusations, by saying that I am definitely

not

> brainwashed; and I do have a mind of my own,

> but I dont disagree with you at all that dentistry is extremely

dodgy.

>

> But teeth and gums WILL go bad on us and what are we to do.

> Before dentistry people died from bad teeth.

> if nothing is done at all then I believe that the resulting

> infection could cause death by blood poisoning or even infect the

> brain I shouldnt wonder-

> not to mention the agony of walking around every day with all

those

> rotting teeth and infected gums.

> and so far there arent many alternatives to dentists,

> doctors certainly dont know much about teeth as a rule.

>

> I am not a fan of allopathic medicine of ANY type nowadays,

> not at all.

> When there is an alternative available I think we would be better

to

> use it. Of course allopathic medicine does save lives, and we

should

> remember that before we decode to throw the baby out with the

> bathwater, take a simple thing like an appendicectomy for example.

>

> The fact is, that I think that ALL of the drugs my doctor dishes

out

> are pretty horrific just for starters; and I am repeatedly shocked

at

> how little she understands about the human body;

> and it is a very, very long time since I was a niave young

> apprentice dental assistant;

>

> Since then, during a remission, I worked for a year in a Natural

> Therapy Centre and became a third degree Reiki master/teacher

myself;

> and I also did a very short course in 'touch for health' (a type

of

> Kinesiology);

> Not to mention that I read every single natural therapy book in

their

> library too,

> so I definitely dont think anything like any dentist I have ever

met

> in my whole life lol!!!

>

> My point was:

> that you missed completely;

> that in your rush and anger and haste and 'frustration' to tell

us

> how you think it is,

> you in fact made a number of quite wild and imaginative statements

> about dentistry, disregarding the 'miles of dental tubules'

comment.

>

> I am wondering if you might, just as likely, be misunderstanding a

> few other things too,

> regarding any of the subjects you have been 'researching';

> more especially if you have a ME/CFS/FMS type illness yourself

which

> causes brainfog.

>

> If you didnt check your facts about dentistry, what makes me sure

> that you are carefully checking your facts about everything else?

>

> At the end of the day, though, even if I am not confident about

your

> accuracy, I still find your theories quite interesting;

>

> But I still think that we should perhaps try to avoid using

> absolutes as a matter of course;

> and it might be good if you tried to qualify some of your

personal

> opinions with special phrases such as:

> I think....

> I feel that.....

> In my opinion....

> from what I have heard/read about this, I think....

> Perhaps it might be....

> maybe it could be....

>

> I totally understand where you are coming from though, Penny,

> and can Identify with your feelings of frustration,

> like I said before, we are both on the same 'side'.

>

> But when we are frustrated and we get hasty we can sometimes get

our

> facts completely wrong, and if you are feeling very frustrated and

> under pressure may I suggest that perhaps you would explain

yourself

> better, a bit later on, after taking a rest and trying to relax a

bit

> first.

>

> Anyway that is what I am going to go and do myself, right now.

>

> I am not frustrated with you or anyone else though lol,

> just in a great deal of pain, and my brain is about as foggy as a

> brain can get.

>

> Nice chatting,

> my very best wishes

> xx

>

[Guest guest]

Good morning Penny,

I thought you were supposed to be resting girl.

I think that was a clever thing you said about the vets; but whether

it is true or not, I dont really know.

As I said before, I am on the same side as you Penny; and if you read

my earlier posts you will see that I have not disagreed with you at

all in principle.

I find your theories interesting, if a little wild and

unsubstantiated. I certainly did not suggest that you are a lunatic.

he mere fact that you now think I have taken a stand against your

point of view, validates my concerns that you may be rushing things

and perhaps even flying off the handle a bit though, and this makes

me suspect you might be getting your wires crossed about quite a lot

of things.

I have not disagreed with your basic ideas, just said that, purely

judging by the depth of your misunderstanding of dentistry; I fear

that you may not be very accurate or sufficiently careful in

gathering your 'research' information.

If you want to discuss infections, it would probably be quite a good

idea to study the infection process in depth so you can be more sure

about what you are saying.

There is an immune system within a tooth that means that infection

cannot enter through dentine from the saliva to the bloodstream; I

think it is about the same process as when you cut yourself, once the

skin is broken the body reacts to fight off the invading bacteria; I

believe the pulpy centre of the tooth serves this purpose.

Of course I can see that you have had an unpleasant experience with

dentistry, and I can see that you are -perhaps justifiably- very

angry with that dentist, but I think you must not let your anger

cloud your judgement, nor is it fair to tar all dentists with the

same brush; I think that you are not doing yourself or anyone else

any favours if you do.

Dentists as a rule may be tragically misinformed, but they are not

demons, they are not actually setting out to harm anyone, that would

be ridiculous.

What happens after extractions is similar to what happens when we cut

our finger, and as a rule sutures are not given unless they are

necessary- I know this because the dentist as a breed is normally a

skinflint and he is obviously not going to go to all that extra time,

trouble and expense if he can possibly get out of it!

Sometimes a tooth has to be removed because there is already an acute

infection present beneath it; and often if an infection occurs after

an extraction: it is either because the patient has kept rinsing out

and not allowed the healing blood clot to form, or as a result of the

blood clot becoming dislodged from the socket; and putrefying food

matter can then enter the socket and sit close to the bone and breed

bacteria.

Normally antibiotics are given in these situations and this small

localised infection clears up quite quickly, within a week.

Sutures when given after surgical extractions etc; cannot prevent

the draining of infected matter from a socket, they are very loose,

not anything near watertight, but they just might help the healing

blood clot to form and remain in place long enough to prevent further

infection entering from the socket/mouth side.

I promise you that this knowledge is not a result of brainwashing,

this is just plain calm common sense and many years of observation

and personal experience,

it is not information gleaned from a website either,

but rather from many years working in a dental surgery; (In fact I

worked with one of the UKs top oral surgeons for a while too)

but as I always say, please dont take my word for any of it, if you

want to know, please ask a dentist.

With regard to research I think we need to be very discerning about

believing everything we read-on the net especially- and I think its a

very good idea to check to see if the information is substantiated;

as well as finding out where the information has come from in the

first place; and to read everything through slowly more than once to

be sure we fully understand it.

I would even recommend going back and double checking your

information again at another time, especially if you get brain fog

and you also intend to pass your gathered information on to others.

I think that misinformation has the potential to be very dangerous

and harmful; I think when we pass on information we have a

responsibility to be as accurate and careful as we can possibly be.

If you dont mind me being very honest, Penny, judging from your

replies to my posts it appears that you dont seem to be taking in

very much of what I have said to you.

This makes me suspect that there is a possibility that maybe you are

just 'skimming' information....we all do that sometimes, it can be so

hard to take in information with our brainfog, especially when we are

tired, harassed or stressed; but it can lead to us getting hold of

the wrong end of the stick sometimes.

I know exactly where you are coming from regarding allopathic

medicine, but your reaction sounds a little naive, I think that,

unfortunately, sooner or later we have to face up to and recognise

that at the end of the day it is all about money, and there are

millions of people on this earth who are so much worse off than we

are, money rules and injustice and corruption are the norms in this

world.

(of course there are some notable exceptions, those kind and noble

medical practitioners who donate their time and knowledge to forums

like this one, for example)

But I think that in general, most doctors are only paying lip service

to patient care; doing just enough to cover their own butts;

but then I believe allopathic medicine was never intended to 'cure'

us, I think it is just put there to alleviate our symptoms and keep

us quiet, so the politicians can say there is health care available

etc.

My own GP freely admits she is not interested in the cause of my

illness; she thinks that the cause of my illness really doesnt

matter, she says cause is not relevent to my treatment, she is quite

satisfied to " treat " the symptoms by dishing out strong toxic drugs

that are actually doing a lot more harm than good; but she does not

have to concern herself about that little detail, so long as she goes

by the book.

If you read my posts more carefully you will see that I have a strong

foundation in natural therapies, and that I am actually of the

opinion that there is a huge worldwide conspiracy about mercury

toxicity. It is only logical that it is so, I think.

- but in my opinion, those excitable angry people who scream their

unsubstantiated theories hysterically from the rooftops, and all

those ridiculous websites that spread wild anti-dental propaganda are

actually not doing themselves -or us- any favours at all.

They are certainly doing nothing at all to vindicate the case for

reforms in dentistry; if anything they are supplying a great deal of

fuel to the opposition.

Patience is not my strong point, either, but it is necessary if we

are to communicate sensibly and also for me, if I am to preserve

myself with this illness, then patience and relaxation are things

that I have to cultivate and practice-barring the occasional

excusable vent of course because I totally agree it is frustrating!

ok, I am off to rest again,

take care

my very best wishes

yvonne xxx

> >

> > Hi again Penny,

> >

> > I really MUST go and lie down but I didnt want to ignore you.

> >

> > I must protest your accusations, by saying that I am definitely

> not

> > brainwashed; and I do have a mind of my own,

> > but I dont disagree with you at all that dentistry is extremely

> dodgy.

> >

> > But teeth and gums WILL go bad on us and what are we to do.

> > Before dentistry people died from bad teeth.

> > if nothing is done at all then I believe that the resulting

> > infection could cause death by blood poisoning or even infect the

> > brain I shouldnt wonder-

> > not to mention the agony of walking around every day with all

> those

> > rotting teeth and infected gums.

> > and so far there arent many alternatives to dentists,

> > doctors certainly dont know much about teeth as a rule.

> >

> > I am not a fan of allopathic medicine of ANY type nowadays,

> > not at all.

> > When there is an alternative available I think we would be

better

> to

> > use it. Of course allopathic medicine does save lives, and we

> should

> > remember that before we decode to throw the baby out with the

> > bathwater, take a simple thing like an appendicectomy for example.

> >

> > The fact is, that I think that ALL of the drugs my doctor dishes

> out

> > are pretty horrific just for starters; and I am repeatedly

shocked

> at

> > how little she understands about the human body;

> > and it is a very, very long time since I was a niave young

> > apprentice dental assistant;

> >

> > Since then, during a remission, I worked for a year in a Natural

> > Therapy Centre and became a third degree Reiki master/teacher

> myself;

> > and I also did a very short course in 'touch for health' (a type

> of

> > Kinesiology);

> > Not to mention that I read every single natural therapy book in

> their

> > library too,

> > so I definitely dont think anything like any dentist I have ever

> met

> > in my whole life lol!!!

> >

> > My point was:

> > that you missed completely;

> > that in your rush and anger and haste and 'frustration' to tell

> us

> > how you think it is,

> > you in fact made a number of quite wild and imaginative

statements

> > about dentistry, disregarding the 'miles of dental tubules'

> comment.

> >

> > I am wondering if you might, just as likely, be misunderstanding

a

> > few other things too,

> > regarding any of the subjects you have been 'researching';

> > more especially if you have a ME/CFS/FMS type illness yourself

> which

> > causes brainfog.

> >

> > If you didnt check your facts about dentistry, what makes me sure

> > that you are carefully checking your facts about everything else?

> >

> > At the end of the day, though, even if I am not confident about

> your

> > accuracy, I still find your theories quite interesting;

> >

> > But I still think that we should perhaps try to avoid using

> > absolutes as a matter of course;

> > and it might be good if you tried to qualify some of your

> personal

> > opinions with special phrases such as:

> > I think....

> > I feel that.....

> > In my opinion....

> > from what I have heard/read about this, I think....

> > Perhaps it might be....

> > maybe it could be....

> >

> > I totally understand where you are coming from though, Penny,

> > and can Identify with your feelings of frustration,

> > like I said before, we are both on the same 'side'.

> >

> > But when we are frustrated and we get hasty we can sometimes get

> our

> > facts completely wrong, and if you are feeling very frustrated

and

> > under pressure may I suggest that perhaps you would explain

> yourself

> > better, a bit later on, after taking a rest and trying to relax a

> bit

> > first.

> >

> > Anyway that is what I am going to go and do myself, right now.

> >

> > I am not frustrated with you or anyone else though lol,

> > just in a great deal of pain, and my brain is about as foggy as a

> > brain can get.

> >

> > Nice chatting,

> > my very best wishes

> > xx

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

I'm not just " skimming " anything. I've been hard core involved in

this for several years now. I know what I'm talking about but it

doesn't matter to me whether you doubt my creidbility or not. I'm

just trying to reach some people who are tired of the same old

stories.

Believe me, it would be much more to your advantage to spend your

energy scientifically researching your own illness, and arguing with

the medical community about getting proper treatment, than arguing

with me about the same old subjective, recycled opinions.

penny

> > >

> > > Hi again Penny,

> > >

> > > I really MUST go and lie down but I didnt want to ignore you.

> > >

> > > I must protest your accusations, by saying that I am

definitely

> > not

> > > brainwashed; and I do have a mind of my own,

> > > but I dont disagree with you at all that dentistry is

extremely

> > dodgy.

> > >

> > > But teeth and gums WILL go bad on us and what are we to do.

> > > Before dentistry people died from bad teeth.

> > > if nothing is done at all then I believe that the resulting

> > > infection could cause death by blood poisoning or even infect

the

> > > brain I shouldnt wonder-

> > > not to mention the agony of walking around every day with all

> > those

> > > rotting teeth and infected gums.

> > > and so far there arent many alternatives to dentists,

> > > doctors certainly dont know much about teeth as a rule.

> > >

> > > I am not a fan of allopathic medicine of ANY type nowadays,

> > > not at all.

> > > When there is an alternative available I think we would be

> better

> > to

> > > use it. Of course allopathic medicine does save lives, and we

> > should

> > > remember that before we decode to throw the baby out with the

> > > bathwater, take a simple thing like an appendicectomy for

example.

> > >

> > > The fact is, that I think that ALL of the drugs my doctor

dishes

> > out

> > > are pretty horrific just for starters; and I am repeatedly

> shocked

> > at

> > > how little she understands about the human body;

> > > and it is a very, very long time since I was a niave young

> > > apprentice dental assistant;

> > >

> > > Since then, during a remission, I worked for a year in a

Natural

> > > Therapy Centre and became a third degree Reiki master/teacher

> > myself;

> > > and I also did a very short course in 'touch for health' (a

type

> > of

> > > Kinesiology);

> > > Not to mention that I read every single natural therapy book

in

> > their

> > > library too,

> > > so I definitely dont think anything like any dentist I have

ever

> > met

> > > in my whole life lol!!!

> > >

> > > My point was:

> > > that you missed completely;

> > > that in your rush and anger and haste and 'frustration' to

tell

> > us

> > > how you think it is,

> > > you in fact made a number of quite wild and imaginative

> statements

> > > about dentistry, disregarding the 'miles of dental tubules'

> > comment.

> > >

> > > I am wondering if you might, just as likely, be

misunderstanding

> a

> > > few other things too,

> > > regarding any of the subjects you have been 'researching';

> > > more especially if you have a ME/CFS/FMS type illness yourself

> > which

> > > causes brainfog.

> > >

> > > If you didnt check your facts about dentistry, what makes me

sure

> > > that you are carefully checking your facts about everything

else?

> > >

> > > At the end of the day, though, even if I am not confident

about

> > your

> > > accuracy, I still find your theories quite interesting;

> > >

> > > But I still think that we should perhaps try to avoid using

> > > absolutes as a matter of course;

> > > and it might be good if you tried to qualify some of your

> > personal

> > > opinions with special phrases such as:

> > > I think....

> > > I feel that.....

> > > In my opinion....

> > > from what I have heard/read about this, I think....

> > > Perhaps it might be....

> > > maybe it could be....

> > >

> > > I totally understand where you are coming from though, Penny,

> > > and can Identify with your feelings of frustration,

> > > like I said before, we are both on the same 'side'.

> > >

> > > But when we are frustrated and we get hasty we can sometimes

get

> > our

> > > facts completely wrong, and if you are feeling very frustrated

> and

> > > under pressure may I suggest that perhaps you would explain

> > yourself

> > > better, a bit later on, after taking a rest and trying to

relax a

> > bit

> > > first.

> > >

> > > Anyway that is what I am going to go and do myself, right now.

> > >

> > > I am not frustrated with you or anyone else though lol,

> > > just in a great deal of pain, and my brain is about as foggy

as a

> > > brain can get.

> > >

> > > Nice chatting,

> > > my very best wishes

> > > xx

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Penny,

If you were not skimming, then you have taken in what I have said;

so do then please tell me what you are getting so hostile about,

and why you are attempting to create arguments with those who you

fully understand are completely on your own side?

Please tell me lots more about the scientific research that you are

recommending that I should become involved in Penny.

What kind of scientific research are you involved in yourself?

I am disturbed that carelessly spread misinformation has the

potential to be very harmful.I think when we report information we

have a responsibility to be as accurate and careful as we can be.

Do you still maintain that you were accurate and careful when you

made this statement:

" Yeah, this common stitching up of dental extractions makes no sense

> when the research shows leaving wounds open is important to rapid >

healing. To stitch up an area in your mouth that's probably been >

exposed to massive amounts of resistant bugs living in the dentist >

office makes no sense at all. The extraction itself promotes >

infection, then add a bunch of new bugs and you've got a recipe for >

disaster. Bacteria can travel through the miles of dentin tubules >

you have, and next thing you know, you've got a systemic infection "

Do you really think that this brand of erroneous internet gossiping

has the power to change the way that medicine or dentistry is being

practised?

It doesn't take much calm good sense to grasp that

`the medical community' will not be in the slightest bit swayed

by the unsubstantiated opinion of a cantankerous lay person, not even

coming from those who are far more meticulous in their accuracy.

My best wishes,

.

> > If you read my posts more carefully you will see that I have a

> strong

> > foundation in natural therapies, and that I am actually of the

> > opinion that there is a huge worldwide conspiracy about mercury

> > toxicity. It is only logical that it is so, I think.

> >

> > - but in my opinion, those excitable angry people who scream

their

> > unsubstantiated theories hysterically from the rooftops, and all

> > those ridiculous websites that spread wild anti-dental propaganda

> are

> > actually not doing themselves -or us- any favours at all.

> > They are certainly doing nothing at all to vindicate the case

for

> > reforms in dentistry; if anything they are supplying a great deal

> of

> > fuel to the opposition.

[Guest guest]

i wouldn't exactly call the " medical communities' " handling of CFS/ME

as being 'meticulous'.

i think we all need to be careful when we read info on these sites,

and recognize that we all have opinions and ideas that may or may not

be good for everybody.

we don't have to be scientists in order to have opinions about this

stuff.

some of the best advice i have received did not come from doctors.

i just think we all have to be very careful because CFS is a very

serious medical condition - as we all know.

and in my opinion, we need to be very kind in the that we speak to

eachother.

thanks

bill

>

> Hello Penny,

>

> If you were not skimming, then you have taken in what I have said;

> so do then please tell me what you are getting so hostile about,

> and why you are attempting to create arguments with those who you

> fully understand are completely on your own side?

>

> Please tell me lots more about the scientific research that you are

> recommending that I should become involved in Penny.

> What kind of scientific research are you involved in yourself?

>

> I am disturbed that carelessly spread misinformation has the

> potential to be very harmful.I think when we report information we

> have a responsibility to be as accurate and careful as we can be.

>

> Do you still maintain that you were accurate and careful when you

> made this statement:

> " Yeah, this common stitching up of dental extractions makes no

sense

> > when the research shows leaving wounds open is important to rapid

>

> healing. To stitch up an area in your mouth that's probably been >

> exposed to massive amounts of resistant bugs living in the dentist

>

> office makes no sense at all. The extraction itself promotes >

> infection, then add a bunch of new bugs and you've got a recipe for

>

> disaster. Bacteria can travel through the miles of dentin tubules >

> you have, and next thing you know, you've got a systemic infection "

>

> Do you really think that this brand of erroneous internet gossiping

> has the power to change the way that medicine or dentistry is being

> practised?

>

> It doesn't take much calm good sense to grasp that

> `the medical community' will not be in the slightest bit swayed

> by the unsubstantiated opinion of a cantankerous lay person, not

even

> coming from those who are far more meticulous in their accuracy.

>

> My best wishes,

> .

>

>

> > > If you read my posts more carefully you will see that I have a

> > strong

> > > foundation in natural therapies, and that I am actually of the

> > > opinion that there is a huge worldwide conspiracy about mercury

> > > toxicity. It is only logical that it is so, I think.

> > >

> > > - but in my opinion, those excitable angry people who scream

> their

> > > unsubstantiated theories hysterically from the rooftops, and

all

> > > those ridiculous websites that spread wild anti-dental

propaganda

> > are

> > > actually not doing themselves -or us- any favours at all.

> > > They are certainly doing nothing at all to vindicate the case

> for

> > > reforms in dentistry; if anything they are supplying a great

deal

> > of

> > > fuel to the opposition.

>

[Guest guest]

" winsomme " <winsomme@...> wrote:

i wouldn't exactly call the " medical communities' " handling of CFS/ME

as being 'meticulous'

Hi Bill,

I absolutely agree with you, thats why that is not what I said. not

at all.

I think you may have come in to the conversation late, Bill, and

taken something out of context.

I totally share your belief that everyone is entitled to express

their own opinions freely; and I am always interested in hearing

other peoples thoughts and opinions. This site is fabulous, people

can chatter away and we can all learn things, its great.

I think that Pennies views are very interesting, and she makes quite

a few clever points too I reckon, and I have told her so, given

credit where it is due.

The problem that occurred was when she made some extremely wild and

imaginative statements, but she presented these fantasies as factual

information being passed on by an expert-herself.

I could see that she has had a bad experience with dentistry, and I

fully appreciated how she must feel, but as a qualified dental nurse

I felt that her mistakes were much too glaring to ignore.

So I questioned her sources; and tried to discourage her from

spreading those kind of rumours, because I am afraid they could have

disastrous consequences for other people if they believed her. The

truth is that people who put off going to the dentists for too long

out of fear can do themselves a lot of harm; and spreading this sort

of unfounded gossip will only increase peoples fears; just think for

a moment about what an untreated abscess could do to you?

I always say, I am expressing my personal point of view, please dont

take my word for anything, if you want to know something about

dentistry, please ask your own dentist.

Butit would be very careless of other peoples safety if I tried to

present myself as a scientific expert, when obviously I am not.

When I suggested this to Penny she became angry and hostile,

It seems that because I was a dental nurse she imagines I am taking

sides against her viewpoint, and she is lumping me together with

those unfortunate misinformed dentists who still believe that amalgam

is safe. (dont forget how much mercury they are exposing themselves

to-they are in much more danger than their patients!)

I agree that there are very sound arguments against the use of

amalgam; I am personally paying out privately to have my own amalgams

removed gradually, I also believe that my own illness is quite likely

to be the result of my massive mercury exposure during years working

in the dental surgery.

I have the absolute right to defend my good character against Pennies

accusations, I have a very firm basis in complimentary therapies; I

worked in a Natural therapy centre for a year amongst other things;

and I am a qualified Reiki master/teacher myself just for starters

- Of course we are all totally free here to say and think whatever we

wish, but I still think it is very irresponsible and careless of

other peoples safety, to try to pass off your own entirely subjective

opinions, as if they were factual information from a scientific

source.

best wishes

yvonne