Osteoporosis

[Guest guest]

Add butter oil and high vitamin cod liver oil. Both have worked

miracles for me on osteoarthritis. I get mine from the Wetzels

www.greenpasture.org.

Lynn

--- In , " Kathy " <kacheson@q...>

wrote:

> I am looking for input on what i can do for osteoporosis. I have

it in my

> low back that ranges from mild to moderate involving L4, L5 and S1

> At the time i had pinched nerve that kept me off work for almost 4

> months. I am assuming that the disc degeneration played a key part

in the

> pinched nerve. I also have mild spondylosis at multiple levels,

and some

> narrowing in other areas. I have been back at work for 5 months

and doing

> OK but it is having a significant impact on life in general and

feel like i

> am treading on thin ice.

>

> So!! For the last few months i have been making some changes.

>

> 1) I have decreased my grain consumption by about 90% especially

gluten

> grains. Also rereading Dangerous Grains and Life Without Bread.

>

> 2) decreased coffee from a whole pot every morning to 2 cups of

lowered

> caffeine.

>

> 3) I am trying to take more CLO but i bought the Garden of Life

product and

> i can't hardly gag it down so it is sitting there in the fridge.

I need

> something that tastes better.

>

> 4) Kefir with CO

>

> 5) I take a liquid glucosamine product called Syn-Flex and 3

tablets a day

> of AOX/PLX

> http://www.activexamerica.com/index.php

> http://www.biotecfoods.us/products/aoxplx.htm

>

> 6) I also have raw butter

>

> Any other changes that i should be making? A multi vitamin? or??

>

> Any help appreciated

>

> Kathy A.

[Guest guest]

How about sugars? Sugars cause inflamation.

Cheers,

Tas'.

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynn,

Would you please tell me how much butter oil it has taken, per dose,

per day, for you to notice a difference in your osteoarthritis?

Many thanks,

Sheila

> > I am looking for input on what i can do for osteoporosis. I have

> it in my

> > low back that ranges from mild to moderate involving L4, L5 and S1

> > At the time i had pinched nerve that kept me off work for almost

4

> > months. I am assuming that the disc degeneration played a key

part

> in the

> > pinched nerve. I also have mild spondylosis at multiple levels,

> and some

> > narrowing in other areas. I have been back at work for 5 months

> and doing

> > OK but it is having a significant impact on life in general and

> feel like i

> > am treading on thin ice.

> >

> > So!! For the last few months i have been making some changes.

> >

> > 1) I have decreased my grain consumption by about 90% especially

> gluten

> > grains. Also rereading Dangerous Grains and Life Without Bread.

> >

> > 2) decreased coffee from a whole pot every morning to 2 cups of

> lowered

> > caffeine.

> >

> > 3) I am trying to take more CLO but i bought the Garden of Life

> product and

> > i can't hardly gag it down so it is sitting there in the fridge.

> I need

> > something that tastes better.

> >

> > 4) Kefir with CO

> >

> > 5) I take a liquid glucosamine product called Syn-Flex and 3

> tablets a day

> > of AOX/PLX

> > http://www.activexamerica.com/index.php

> > http://www.biotecfoods.us/products/aoxplx.htm

> >

> > 6) I also have raw butter

> >

> > Any other changes that i should be making? A multi vitamin? or??

> >

> > Any help appreciated

> >

> > Kathy A.

[Guest guest]

Yes I notice a hugh difference. Two years ago I needed a walking

stick as my ankle would go out from under me with shooting pain up

my leg. Any physical activity would result in limping for days so I

was becoming very inactive. I use 2 tsp butter oil/day and 2-4 TBSP

(CLO depending on my stress level). I also use AOX/PLX and

glucosamine/chondrotin. However the only thing that has been very

effective with pain has been the butter oil and CLO.

Wetzel said everyone needs to experiment to find the level it

takes to relieve pain for them. He's knows some people that use 2

TBSP per day and some that use 1/2 tsp.

Lynn

> > > I am looking for input on what i can do for osteoporosis. I

have

> > it in my

> > > low back that ranges from mild to moderate involving L4, L5

and S1

> > > At the time i had pinched nerve that kept me off work for

almost

> 4

> > > months. I am assuming that the disc degeneration played a key

> part

> > in the

> > > pinched nerve. I also have mild spondylosis at multiple

levels,

> > and some

> > > narrowing in other areas. I have been back at work for 5

months

> > and doing

> > > OK but it is having a significant impact on life in general

and

> > feel like i

> > > am treading on thin ice.

> > >

> > > So!! For the last few months i have been making some changes.

> > >

> > > 1) I have decreased my grain consumption by about 90%

especially

> > gluten

> > > grains. Also rereading Dangerous Grains and Life Without

Bread.

> > >

> > > 2) decreased coffee from a whole pot every morning to 2 cups

of

> > lowered

> > > caffeine.

> > >

> > > 3) I am trying to take more CLO but i bought the Garden of

Life

> > product and

> > > i can't hardly gag it down so it is sitting there in the

fridge.

> > I need

> > > something that tastes better.

> > >

> > > 4) Kefir with CO

> > >

> > > 5) I take a liquid glucosamine product called Syn-Flex and 3

> > tablets a day

> > > of AOX/PLX

> > > http://www.activexamerica.com/index.php

> > > http://www.biotecfoods.us/products/aoxplx.htm

> > >

> > > 6) I also have raw butter

> > >

> > > Any other changes that i should be making? A multi vitamin?

or??

> > >

> > > Any help appreciated

> > >

> > > Kathy A.

[Guest guest]

I also hate the taste of CLO, but this is my tried and true method:

1. Only breathe through your mouth (ie plug your nose) right before and

after taking the CLO. When you can't smell it, you can't taste it.

2. Swallow something strong (like OJ) right after taking the CLO.

HTH,

> 3) I am trying to take more CLO but i bought the Garden of Life product

and

> i can't hardly gag it down so it is sitting there in the fridge. I need

> something that tastes better.

[Guest guest]

>I use 2 tsp butter oil/day and 2-4 TBSP

> (CLO depending on my stress level). I also use AOX/PLX and

Whoa, Lynn! Do you check your vit. D levels? Any worries about ODing?

[Guest guest]

Right this question continues to come up. The ND I'm working with

said this is very controversial and his view is that vit D toxicity

is not a problem. I don't know however I don't get a lot of sunlight

on lots of bare skin so I'm probably deficient.

I've been doing the high levels of butter oil for 2 years now with

no effects. On the cod liver I'm on those amounts temporarily for

about 4 months....then I will reduce to 2-3 tsp of high vit. in the

future.

On testing for vit D..no I haven't yet. Probably a good idea but so

far my body is responding so well that I haven't bother. Maybe a few

more months on this amount and I'll test to see. I'm seeing such a

myriad of problems clearing up since I started these large amounts

of CLO. This is even with an excellent NT diet over the past 3

years. And I eat eating organ meat (see my liver files in the Files

sections) but even that didn't seem to provide enough fat soluble

vits based on the way I'm now feeling.

So I'm simply going by the way I feel right now....and then test

later when my body has had more time to come along.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Thanks Lynn,

I think I recall talking to you about this a long time ago. I

remember your ankle problem and the mention of AOX/PLX. The CLO and

butter oil are new. I so glad they are helping you.

Did your arthritis pain come in the form of flare ups. Mine does that

and it seems so strange. I know it is a metabolic disorder, but why I

would have these swings from pain to no pain. I keep my NT diet

steady. It is a puzzle. Have you wondered about these swings. Perhaps

is is the levels of stress, mental and/or physical which vary and

cause the pain reaction. I don't understand it, but I would like to.

I am now saving to buy some butter oil. Thanks for the huge tip.

Sheila

> > > > I am looking for input on what i can do for osteoporosis. I

> have

> > > it in my

> > > > low back that ranges from mild to moderate involving L4, L5

> and S1

> > > > At the time i had pinched nerve that kept me off work for

> almost

> > 4

> > > > months. I am assuming that the disc degeneration played a key

> > part

> > > in the

> > > > pinched nerve. I also have mild spondylosis at multiple

> levels,

> > > and some

> > > > narrowing in other areas. I have been back at work for 5

> months

> > > and doing

> > > > OK but it is having a significant impact on life in general

> and

> > > feel like i

> > > > am treading on thin ice.

> > > >

> > > > So!! For the last few months i have been making some changes.

> > > >

> > > > 1) I have decreased my grain consumption by about 90%

> especially

> > > gluten

> > > > grains. Also rereading Dangerous Grains and Life Without

> Bread.

> > > >

> > > > 2) decreased coffee from a whole pot every morning to 2 cups

> of

> > > lowered

> > > > caffeine.

> > > >

> > > > 3) I am trying to take more CLO but i bought the Garden of

> Life

> > > product and

> > > > i can't hardly gag it down so it is sitting there in the

> fridge.

> > > I need

> > > > something that tastes better.

> > > >

> > > > 4) Kefir with CO

> > > >

> > > > 5) I take a liquid glucosamine product called Syn-Flex and 3

> > > tablets a day

> > > > of AOX/PLX

> > > > http://www.activexamerica.com/index.php

> > > > http://www.biotecfoods.us/products/aoxplx.htm

> > > >

> > > > 6) I also have raw butter

> > > >

> > > > Any other changes that i should be making? A multi vitamin?

> or??

> > > >

> > > > Any help appreciated

> > > >

> > > > Kathy A.

[Guest guest]

I am going to increase my intake of CLO and see what happens. During

the winter I take 1T, but have cut back to 2t during the summer, even

though I don't get out in the sunshine very much,normally only 20 to

30 minutes a day. Sounds like more would be a fine idea. I have had

my vit. D levels checked. They are about 30 to 31 which is okay.

Perhaps, I need more vitamin D because of the osteoarthritis and

osteoporosis. I use Carlson's CLO which may vary in vitamin D amounts

from the Green Pasture CLO. I'll check that out.

My doctor has me drinking two cups a day of oatstraw tea combined

with horsetail tea. I use 2 t of each for every cup. I usually make

up the whole batch in the morning( 1 T plus one t of each) and drink

it over the course of the day. I buy it in bulk through my local

haealth food store. Both contain silica which are essential to

rebuild bone. I also take a Chinese herbal called Osteoherbal made by

Health Concerns. At first I took 3 doses a day of three tablets,

between meals. After one month the doctor had me cut back to 2 doses

of three tablets a day between meals. He has seen excellent results

with the teas and the Osteoherbal.

All the best for your continued improvement. You have done well.

Sheila

-- In , " Lynn Razaitis " <lyn122@y...>

wrote:

> Yes I notice a hugh difference. Two years ago I needed a walking

> stick as my ankle would go out from under me with shooting pain up

> my leg. Any physical activity would result in limping for days so I

> was becoming very inactive. I use 2 tsp butter oil/day and 2-4 TBSP

> (CLO depending on my stress level). I also use AOX/PLX and

> glucosamine/chondrotin. However the only thing that has been very

> effective with pain has been the butter oil and CLO.

>

> Wetzel said everyone needs to experiment to find the level it

> takes to relieve pain for them. He's knows some people that use 2

> TBSP per day and some that use 1/2 tsp.

>

> Lynn

>

>

>

>

> > > > I am looking for input on what i can do for osteoporosis. I

> have

> > > it in my

> > > > low back that ranges from mild to moderate involving L4, L5

> and S1

> > > > At the time i had pinched nerve that kept me off work for

> almost

> > 4

> > > > months. I am assuming that the disc degeneration played a key

> > part

> > > in the

> > > > pinched nerve. I also have mild spondylosis at multiple

> levels,

> > > and some

> > > > narrowing in other areas. I have been back at work for 5

> months

> > > and doing

> > > > OK but it is having a significant impact on life in general

> and

> > > feel like i

> > > > am treading on thin ice.

> > > >

> > > > So!! For the last few months i have been making some changes.

> > > >

> > > > 1) I have decreased my grain consumption by about 90%

> especially

> > > gluten

> > > > grains. Also rereading Dangerous Grains and Life Without

> Bread.

> > > >

> > > > 2) decreased coffee from a whole pot every morning to 2 cups

> of

> > > lowered

> > > > caffeine.

> > > >

> > > > 3) I am trying to take more CLO but i bought the Garden of

> Life

> > > product and

> > > > i can't hardly gag it down so it is sitting there in the

> fridge.

> > > I need

> > > > something that tastes better.

> > > >

> > > > 4) Kefir with CO

> > > >

> > > > 5) I take a liquid glucosamine product called Syn-Flex and 3

> > > tablets a day

> > > > of AOX/PLX

> > > > http://www.activexamerica.com/index.php

> > > > http://www.biotecfoods.us/products/aoxplx.htm

> > > >

> > > > 6) I also have raw butter

> > > >

> > > > Any other changes that i should be making? A multi vitamin?

> or??

> > > >

> > > > Any help appreciated

> > > >

> > > > Kathy A.

[Guest guest]

> osteoporosis. I use Carlson's CLO which may vary in vitamin D

amounts

> from the Green Pasture CLO. I'll check that out.

----> THere's a hugh difference. The Blue Ice from green pastures

has 5,000 IU/tsp. I don't how much Carlson has but it's low.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

In one teaspoon of Carlson's there is only 400 IU of vitamin D. I see

what you mean by it's being low!

Sheila

> > osteoporosis. I use Carlson's CLO which may vary in vitamin D

> amounts

> > from the Green Pasture CLO. I'll check that out.

>

> ----> THere's a hugh difference. The Blue Ice from green pastures

> has 5,000 IU/tsp. I don't how much Carlson has but it's low.

> Lynn

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone for your help with my problem!!

I will order the butter oil next payday and i will plug my nose when taking

the vile CLO ( had forgotten about that trick).

Probably still getting to much sugar but then probably getting about 75%

less than i used too. Something else to work on i guess.

Catching up on and going over the later posts. : )

Thanks all

Kathy A.

[Guest guest]

Try the Blue Ice peppermint from greenpastures.org the place where

you order the butter oil.

Lynn

--- In , " Kathy " <kacheson@q...>

wrote:

> Thanks everyone for your help with my problem!!

>

> I will order the butter oil next payday and i will plug my nose

when taking

> the vile CLO ( had forgotten about that trick).

>

> Probably still getting to much sugar but then probably getting

about 75%

> less than i used too. Something else to work on i guess.

>

> Catching up on and going over the later posts. : )

>

> Thanks all

>

> Kathy A.

[Guest guest]

After reading all the posts and doing some remedial homework i think that i

have come up with a plan of sorts. I think and have thought for some time

that my problems are probably from a life time of high grain consumption.

Really, until less than a year ago my entire diet was probably 80% grains

and i am 52. My guess is that i am gluten intolerant. With this in mind and

after rereading Dangerous Grains i will be doing this:

Add a vitamin/mineral supplement

If my problems are due to gluten then i need to make sure that i get in

some fashion Vit. K, Vit. A, magnesium and zinc. A good supplement will

help cover the basics but apparently adding calcium be the wrong thing to

do.

I will keep on with the Syn-Flex but may not with the AOX/PLX (expense)

Try to make more use of bone broths

Add the butter oil.

I really am divided on no grains at all or simply non gluten. I like my

grains : ) I am perfectly happy with occasional corn tortilla with

toppings or the same with a small potato.

Well, that is the short story : )

Kathy A.

[Guest guest]

>>>> I really am divided on no grains at all or simply non gluten. I like

my

> grains : ) I am perfectly happy with occasional corn tortilla with

> toppings or the same with a small potato.<<<

See how you go for a while with just no gluten. Then decide whether you

should have a trial of no grains at all.

Cheers,

Tas'.

[Guest guest]

>I really am divided on no grains at all or simply non gluten. I like my

>grains : ) I am perfectly happy with occasional corn tortilla with

>toppings or the same with a small potato.

>

>Well, that is the short story : )

>

>Kathy A.

FWIW, I do fine with grains if they are non-gluten. I only eat them

at night though, which has finally stabilized my blood sugar. I find

I don't want them near as much as I used to, but really, there are

some times when nothing beats a nice big taco dinner. I'm fairly

sure that most of the grain foods I eat are not high in any nutrients

(tho tortillas are whole grain, the gf breads aren't), but they don't cause

near the damage gluten does.

However, you have to be careful, because corn, rice, oats and the

other grains are often contaminated by gluten, which I think is

part of what causes the confusion. Even tortillas ... the same

factory may make both wheat and corn, and restaurants commonly

steam both of them in the same steamer.

Potatoes though aren't grains, and really they are high in nutrients.

Sweet potatoes especially. I haven't noticed any bad side effect

from a nice big hash brown dinner, fried in coconut oil. YMMV.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

<<Potatoes though aren't grains, and really they are high in nutrients.

Sweet potatoes especially. I haven't noticed any bad side effect

from a nice big hash brown dinner, fried in coconut oil. YMMV.>>

Of course they aren't <lol> I had the mental lapse of lumping them together

as i am usually looking at carbs and not gluten.

Kathy A.

[Guest guest]

.......Funny, most docs don't tell their patients about possible side

effects until something goes wrong. It has been known since steriods were

first introduced that they could play a major part in bone loss. Especially

problematic in people on long term usage. People with denser bones are less at

risk than people with less dense bones resulting from age or genetics. Women

with their lighter smaller bones are more at risk than men, and certainly

more at risk after menopause.

It has been said that people who are thier own doctors are fools, but in

this day and age a person who does not look after their own welfare, and

research everything they take, is really climbing out on a ledge!!! Too many

docs brush off side effects or problems. After all, the drug companies wine

and dine them and assure them their products are wonderful, problems

practically non existant. I knew I had a problem when my doc told me

Methotrexate

had NO side effects...and what few side effects that were reported were very

rare!!! Who did she think she was kidding. Certainly made me wonder just how

competant she really was.

As to supplements, a general vitamin tablet plus another supplement of

calcium is a must. Weight bearing exercises are also recommended but you need

to have a competant person show you what to do so you don't injure yourself.

Then get yourself to an AP doc and give the Minocin a try. What area of

the country are you in??? I was on steriods for 8 years before the Minocin.

Now have not been on them in three years. It is never too late to try the

minocin, but you do need an experienced physician to guide your treatment.

Best

of luck in your search. Martha

[Guest guest]

Hi , I too have osteoporosis and yes from steroids. I was able

to use antibiotics to get off the steroids and the mtx. I know for

me, the doc I used had your docs attitude. I did not want to continue

getting worse. I used an ap doc out of state and my internist was

local. I still do that and it works well. I am on antibiotics 8yrs

now and have been off cortisone since 1997 and off mtx since 1998. I

was weaned slowly but I never flared and did accomplish the goal.

I do not know how old you are but I use natural estrogen cream(

triest) and a progesterone one as well. These do help with the bone

loss. I also use soy products. There are a lot of different

supplements for bones and I am sure Ethel is mire adept than I at

this. I use the calciun Magnesium as that seems to be something I

require.

I would first see about getting on antibiotics as thats your best

chance of geting off the prednisone. The group here can help you with

a doc ebven if you travlel to Dr Sinnott in Iowa, its a start. He

works wioth so many other docs.

Just take Care.

Marge

>

> I got some bad news today.I recieved a card in the mail from my

family

> doc my dexascan is showing osteoporosis of the spine. I have had RA

> for 8 yrs.

> Most of the 8 yrs. my Rheumy has had me on steroids. Funny, my

> Rheumy never once ordered a dexascan.

> When I asked for the AP he said, Its been around a long time and

> doesn't work. I only found this website this year, and so far I've

had

> no luck finding a Doc who will treat me with the AP. My question is

> are there any natural supplements to stop the bone loss?

[Guest guest]

I too have an issue with Osteoporosis and Osteopenia. My doctor seemed to think

it was due to CMT not allowing proper blood flow to the bones. It seems to run

on both sides of my family though, and CMT doesn't show up anywhere that we know

of, so for all we know, the Osteoporosis could be a family trait.

~

[Guest guest]

,

What's this about? Your doctor thinks osteoporosis is due to CMT not allowing

proper blood flow to the bones? CMT is not a blood or blood circulation problem.

I don't get how your doctor came to this conclusion.

Gretchen

----------

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[Guest guest]

Hi -

I too take Fosamax. I have osteo.... in my hips. I thought it was arthritis. It

is not CMT related. It's in our bones, not nerves or muscles. I'm 52, had a

hysterectomy when I was 26 after I had 2 children. It is hormone related. We

can't blame everything on our CMT.

Barb Fl

[Guest guest]

Gretchen,

I guess it just goes to show you how much some doctors know about CMT...

My doctor told me that due to poor circulation in my legs and feet and with all

of the muscle atrophy and nerve damage it was creating a situation where my

bones were becoming more and more brittle. He is recommending Fosamax or one of

the other drugs out there for Osteoporosis, but evenrything that I've read

states that they're only for postmenopausal women and if you're

younger they're ineffective. Has anyone else been told this about CMT in

relationship to Osteoporosis??

~

[Guest guest]

Perhaps we should ask how many of us post-menopausal CMTer's have

osteoporosis. It might help to shed some light on things.

AP

[Guest guest]

Yes I have, I tried Fosamax but had a reaction to it so now I am getting IV

feedings once every 3 month for this new drug.

Joyce