Re: More about Prozac - Tricyclic antidepressants

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

regarding the antidepressants: The new antidepressants, called SSRI

(such as Prozac,) are probably only useful if you in fact have a

depression.

However, tricyclic antidepressant drugs (which are older) are known to

help with pain and sleep, and this at a very low dose (far lower than

what you would use to treat depression). An example of these

substances is amitriptyline hydrochloride (sold as Elavil, Tryptanol,

Endep, Tryptizol). Tricyclic antidepressants in low doses are used for

a variety of problems, such as FMS, IBS and vulvodynia. For some

people, they really help with pain and sleep.

Has anyone had experiences with this?

I too was convinced by my doctor to try SSRI when I first got ill, and

they did absolutely no good for me, only gave me awful side effects. I

have tried a low-dose tricyclic (Mianserin), which helped with sleep,

but induced weight gain. Will possibly try Tryptizol later in the year.

/Anne

>

> Steve-

>

> Afer 6 years on this list, I have never heard of any SSRI helping

> w/ the immune system-Prozac being a SSRI.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Anne,

Despite a very long experience with this illness I only became depressed

when my temperature went haywire with a mega crash in 2004. I had tried

a SSRI before when my CFS doc suggested it would help the ME (I wasn't

depressed) and it practically killed me then - just one and a half tabs.

With this recent and first bout of depression I was tried on varying

SSRI's and NSRI's all of which made me 100 times worse both in terms of

depression and ME symptoms. I was then given 25mg per night of

Dosulepin (dothiepin as was) which is tiny and which is in theory non

therapeutic at this level for depression. I soon became depression free

and the side effects of the bad meds eased but my temperature control

and general ME picture have not improved. I will at some time wean

myself off this, as despite me feeling I am getting more sleep in terms

of hours, the quality of my sleep when 'non-drugged' was better, and I

do feel the tricylclics might be adding to the restless leg syndrome and

other cns disturbances.

Let's put it this way. If I wasn't (or hadn't been ) depressed I

wouldn't personally think about taking any of these meds - but

experience has taught me to be so critical. Perhaps others have more

positive experiences.

BW

Rosie.

Hi all,

regarding the antidepressants: The new antidepressants, called SSRI

(such as Prozac,) are probably only useful if you in fact have a

depression.

However, tricyclic antidepressant drugs (which are older) are known to

help with pain and sleep, and this at a very low dose (far lower than

what you would use to treat depression). An example of these

substances is amitriptyline hydrochloride (sold as Elavil, Tryptanol,

Endep, Tryptizol). Tricyclic antidepressants in low doses are used for

a variety of problems, such as FMS, IBS and vulvodynia. For some

people, they really help with pain and sleep.

Has anyone had experiences with this?

I too was convinced by my doctor to try SSRI when I first got ill, and

they did absolutely no good for me, only gave me awful side effects. I

have tried a low-dose tricyclic (Mianserin), which helped with sleep,

but induced weight gain. Will possibly try Tryptizol later in the year.

/Anne

>

> Steve-

>

> Afer 6 years on this list, I have never heard of any SSRI helping

> w/ the immune system-Prozac being a SSRI.

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/6/06 1:34:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

kcapel@... writes:

Hi Anne,

I took amitriptyline for about 25 years for sleep and pain. I took

it in low doses, 25 then 50 mg. It did help with sleep -- getting to

sleep and staying asleep. But it also kept me asleep for longer,

which may have been beneficial to me and certainly was enjoyable, but

when I tried to get up and function (work)

Hi ,

25 to 50 mg of amitriptyline is NOT a low dose for CFIDS people. It would

only be a low dose for someone who is extremely depressed. Amitriptyline has

helped me greatly, but there is no way I could take more than 10-15 mg a

night and still be able to function.

Take care,

Maxine

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/6/06 3:24:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

kcapel@... writes:

and 0 mg of this tricyclic did me just as

much good as any dose I did try, so I am better off with 0 mg.>>

Ah, sorry, now I understand - you are definitely better off with 0 mg.

Take care,

Maxine

[Guest guest]

Hi Anne,

I took amitriptyline for about 25 years for sleep and pain. I took

it in low doses, 25 then 50 mg. It did help with sleep -- getting to

sleep and staying asleep. But it also kept me asleep for longer,

which may have been beneficial to me and certainly was enjoyable, but

when I tried to get up and function (work) the next day, I could not

shake the " sleepies " till the middle of the afternoon. It felt like

a deep drug hangover that no amount of coffee would rectify. It also

encouraged weight gain. (As this happened at the same time my

thyroid went on vacation, it's a little hard for me to sort out which

caused which.)

For most of these years, however, the prescription was for pain, and

it did nothing for me in the pain department. My vet, however, uses

amitriptyline for his diagnosed FM and he swears by it, citing the

studies in which it acts on substance P (is this right? I may not

remember properly the name of the " substance " here).

Anyway, he swears by it and I wouldn't take it again unless someone

held a gun to my head. My neurologist at the time suggested I

increase the dosage to 75 mg and then higher, because he said I

wasn't accustomed to the drug and I needed to acclimate my system and

then bump up the dosage to get the benefit. I decided that this was

probably bogus reasoning, in this case at least. Why should I

increase the amount of something that's disagreeable to start with,

just so I can " get used to " it?

I stopped taking it in the late 90s. Didn't have too much trouble

getting off of it, except that my sleep became abbreviated and

interrupted again and I experienced quite vivid nightmares for about

a week, but that was all.

My casual opinion is that doctors are so pressed for time that they

are easily influenced by pharmaceutical salesmen, and then the

doctors suggest all these modern, new-fangled " medicines " that are

more designed to profit the drug company than the patient who is

taking the medicine. Exceptions to everything, of course, but in

general, I would not take any pharmaceutical that was manufactured

after about 1980, and especially not in this line

of " antidepressants. " I don't trust the industry that they come from.

I have my own exceptions, as I've said, as I have found pain relief

by using tramadol and, periodically, cyclobenzaprine (Flexeril) for

muscle spasm. But I think long and hard, and do research, before I

put anything like this into my mouth.

in Champaign IL

>

> Hi all,

>

> regarding the antidepressants: The new antidepressants, called SSRI

> (such as Prozac,) are probably only useful if you in fact have a

> depression.

>

> However, tricyclic antidepressant drugs (which are older) are known

to

> help with pain and sleep, and this at a very low dose (far lower

than

> what you would use to treat depression). An example of these

> substances is amitriptyline hydrochloride (sold as Elavil,

Tryptanol,

> Endep, Tryptizol). Tricyclic antidepressants in low doses are used

for

> a variety of problems, such as FMS, IBS and vulvodynia. For some

> people, they really help with pain and sleep.

>

> Has anyone had experiences with this?

>

> I too was convinced by my doctor to try SSRI when I first got ill,

and

> they did absolutely no good for me, only gave me awful side

effects. I

> have tried a low-dose tricyclic (Mianserin), which helped with

sleep,

> but induced weight gain. Will possibly try Tryptizol later in the

year.

>

> /Anne

[Guest guest]

Maxine, this was back in the late 70s and early 80s, and I was being

treated as a patient with spine injuries who could not sleep because

of pain. Though there was plenty of other material in my medical file

to indicate that I should have been " suspect, " I was never told

anything about CFS, CFIDS, ME, FM, FMS, or anything else.

The point I was trying to make was that 25-50 mg of amitriptyline

never did me any good in 25 years, and the couple or three times I

tried 75 did me no good either. I was certainly not going to try

higher doses after that, and 0 mg of this tricyclic did me just as

much good as any dose I did try, so I am better off with 0 mg.

This was well before SSRIs came out and I had every doctor I went to

trying to push Wellbutrin on me for my anxiety and panic disorder. I

don't trust the industry and the influence it has on overworked

doctors who may be only trying to help their patients feel better.

Pharmaceuticals may have started out with the idea of helping people

feel better and have better lives, but the industry now is about

enriching shareholders -- and not about helping people who are ill.

in Champaign IL

> Hi ,

> 25 to 50 mg of amitriptyline is NOT a low dose for CFIDS people.

It would

> only be a low dose for someone who is extremely depressed.

Amitriptyline has

> helped me greatly, but there is no way I could take more than 10-15

mg a

> night and still be able to function.

> Take care,

> Maxine