Mold Pirates & Other Scoundrels

[Guest guest]

Dear Members,

I sat in the Saint Lucie Florida School District meeting last week

to learn how my tax dollars had just been spent on a New York Mold

Remediator (Pirate?) who was now leaving with " check in hand "

after " finishing " the job and declaring the school " safe " for our

kids.

Questions from the parents were excellent but the Remediator Reps

were not allowed to speak only the School System Facilities guy. His

answers were most revealing.

First, no post clearance test was allowed by the School System.

Second, the School System agreed with the parents that incidents of

reported upper respirtory symptoms were higher during the last month

of school than during any other month.

Third, when asked what chemicals were being used to " treat " the mold

infestation, the Remediation Reps were not allowed to answer and the

School System officials said they had never asked for or seen the

MSDS sheets.

The remediation project occured during the school year and began

each day after school was over and ended at 5AM the next day. Kids

are in the building at 6AM. When asked if biocides or fungicides

were being used the School Officals said they could not be sure but

assumed that such chemicals were being used.

Fourth, when asked if the Remediation firm had offered the District

a warranty or some scientific basis to believe the IAQ was

acceptable, the School Offical stated that there were no warranties,

gurantees or any way to know for sure if the remediation was

successful. The total cost was several million dollars.

Finally, when asked if the increased sickness during the last months

of school might be a result of the use of biocides or fungicides the

School official pointed to a gentleman in the audience and stated

they had just hired this individual who was/is a certified

industrial hygenist to test for poisons and mold levels in the

school..even though they had already paid the remediation firm their

contract price! Can this get any worse?

So... the Mold Pirates sail home to NYC, the kids are sicker, no one

knows if the IAQ is better or worse and the animals are running the

circus! I my angery over this entire incident.

I ran across a news release about a new U.S. Government Contractor

who uses a non toxic system to " abate and prevent " mold in all

affected Federal Buildings. They were just awarded the contract in

February of this year. They claim to offer a two - five year

performance warranty - require their customer to get their own third

party IAQ tester so there is no conflict of interest - they charge

$1.50 per square foot (90% less than the New York Mold Pirates) and

they say if their client does not pass the clearance test, the

client does not pay! What a concept!

Their web site is http://www.nomoldkc.com/ad.htm If I can find

someone like that in a couple of days why can't the School System?

We need to learn more about this company. Apparently the U.S.

Government trusts them.

[Guest guest]

I would say nothing negative about the new mold remediation company contracted

by the federal government. I don't know anything about them. But let's put it

like this: I've been subjected to what the federal government considers

appropriate mold remediation. I spend most of my time in constant pain over it,

and my life is a wreck. I've been subjected to what the federal government

considers to be an expert industial hygiensist. This is a guy who shrugs and

says, " There's mold outside than inside. " I'm extremely sorry to hear things

have gone so incredibly wrong in FL, but don't be naive about this government

thing. What the federal government knows about mold remediation, you could put

in a thimble and still have enough room left over to culture up enough stachy to

choke a medium-sized city. Sounds to me like you folks need need to load up on

some of the resident experts around here like Shoemaker, Schaller, and Lipsey if

you intend to get anywhere with this mess.

Serena

www.freeboards.net/index.php?mforum=sickgovernmentb

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[Guest guest]

This is a guy who shrugs and says, " There's mold outside than

inside. " Serena

That's reality!

And if the mold outside is enough to make you sick,

no amount of remediation is going to make any difference.

That's why I keep warning people about spore plumes from elsewhere.

Lungs cannot tell the difference between indoor and outdoor spores.

That's what made the " Mold Rush " episode on " King of the Hill " so funny

when Peggy told Bobby to " Quick, run outside. NO, wait. Come back

inside, uh, Go sit in the car and wait there! "

An animated housewife could see the basic problems with the " indoor

bad / outdoor OK " concept while " Mold Experts " seem to have great

difficulty with this little nuance.

-

[Guest guest]

Gosh , so true. This place started with outside

mold. And it made its way in here. Used to cut my

grass, plant flowers. Neighbor has aspergillus so

bad, they painted their house white. Guy that cuts my

grass is a healthy 19 yr old, whose eyes are so red,

he coughs, breaks out whenever comes here. Have

stakky, pennicillium. aspergillus all over. Am so

tired of the government, so called EPA. FDA, and

government. EPA allows all the pesticides, etc. Like

we all have read, mold has always been around. But

what caused it to mutate and cause the toxins. IMHO:

the pesticides, GE foods. Guy who tested this place,

when I first starting becoming so ill, almost $900 for

2 slides, and air filter. Rip off. Neighbor is always

spraying, and using the so called fertilizers. All my

flowers and hedges that are dead. Not to count their

above ground pool, that one can smell the chlorine. It

busted and over 25,000 gallons of water ran here. Then

they supposedly had it fixed and had gone outside

cause thought heard something. More water running

down. Have an 8 ft hole on the side of the house,

where water has gone. And 3 dogs that defecate, and

they don't pick any up. Rains and all that junk comes

here.

My insurance wouldn't do anything, said it was their

fault. Did theirs? Nope..was same Insurance company

as Melinda Ballards.

--- erikmoldwarrior <erikmoldwarrior@...>

wrote:

> This is a guy who shrugs and says, " There's mold

> outside than

> inside. " Serena

>

> That's reality!

> And if the mold outside is enough to make you sick,

> no amount of remediation is going to make any

> difference.

>

> That's why I keep warning people about spore plumes

> from elsewhere.

> Lungs cannot tell the difference between indoor and

> outdoor spores.

> That's what made the " Mold Rush " episode on " King of

> the Hill " so funny

> when Peggy told Bobby to " Quick, run outside. NO,

> wait. Come back

> inside, uh, Go sit in the car and wait there! "

>

> An animated housewife could see the basic problems

> with the " indoor

> bad / outdoor OK " concept while " Mold Experts " seem

> to have great

> difficulty with this little nuance.

> -

__________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Hey Serena,

You are right about the Federal Government! But it is too easy to lump Federal

stupidity into one great whole. After all we did put people on the Moon, even if

the toilet seats cost $64,000 or whatever it was. Plus those $10,000 space

hammers should be in a museum by now, but more likely still on the moon!

My research has found that there is disagreement among Federal Agencies about

what to do about mold. In fact that is an understatement.

On the negative side you have the CDC (Centers For Disease Control) and the EPA

who are unwilling to make the connection between mycotoxins and health in people

and animals. Recently, in the face of new science, technology and jury verdicts

the EPA has down played their remediation protocols from " guide lines " to

" recommendations " . Studies coming out of Texas Tech University Department of

Microbiology and Immunology on mold and health (for one) demonstrate how

bankrupt the CDC is on this issue. They (the CDC) are followers, apparently,

instead of leaders. Failing to take the scientific lead in the area of mold and

health has no negative consequences for these agencies. But the same cannot be

said for other Federal operations. For instance...

On the positive side, Agencies such as the Air Force, The General Services

Administration, The U.S. Army, to name a few, have followed somewhat different

paths, accepting the fact that mold and health are related because the agencies

have direct welfare for the housing and officing of personnel critical to the

missions to which they have been assigned by Congress. The EPA and CDC are

actually not directly responsible except for a few employees (compared to the

officing of Federal Workers a GSA responsibility or the the housing and mission

readiness of military personnel).

Then there are operations issues and budgets to consider...

What do you do with a critical regional Social Security Center, housing 1,000

workers whose mission it is to cut checks for Social Security benefits that has

a growing toxic mold problem on multiple levels of the building. Standard NYC,

EPA OR llCRC520 protocols are simple, " if in doubt, tear it out! " ..

at $55.00 per square foot and 6 months to a year of time.

Where do you put all those people?

How about the extra million or two it is going to take to fix it and the extra

million or two to move the entire staff and equipment to a new location and back

again.

How about the cost of lost productivity. Believe it or not, many leaders in

these type of agencies are looking for a better way. Of course, not all...but

enough, well maybe!

Anyway, If a new technology can show 10 years of successful mold abatement and

prevention and scientific proof, at a cost of $1.50 per foot and you don't have

to move anyone..Well even a sleepy Federal Bureaucrat can make a logical

choice. And, apparently, after 15 months of study, the General Services

Administration did just that. At least that is what the story is on the press

release the " nomold " people made that I found in financial and

Lexus-Nexus. And, if you go to the GSA website.. there they are: GS 06F-33R,

Global Prevention Services.

I hate to admit, Serena , that I have a bit of a government background, I

even, have an MS in Public Administration. But I am from the Covey

school of thought... " Begin with the end in mind " . Rip, Tear and Replace is found

in the Old Testament and if you carefully read the text in Leviticus and the

NYC, EPA and CRC protocols, the American version says the same thing, just

longer.

And Rip,Tear & Replace & use poison would great if it worked ( & didn't harm

people), each time it is tried, every-time it is tried. But it does not.I read

the horror stories every week on www.mold_help.com.

So, I am on the hunt for Science based SOLUTIONS to stop mold when we find it

and prevent it from re-occurring and with Technology that is not harmful to

people or animals.

And, like the science that defines gravity on this planet, I want a guarantee

that what goes up must come down. I want someone to give me a guarantee that

when I spend my money on mold abatement or remediation that the air in my home

is no longer toxic! And, they can prove it (Yeah, I know there is no Federal

Standard) with tests.

And, if they can't do that then I don't want to pay. And I want the remediation

to last more than a week...how about years!

I am going to let this GPS group treat a house in have in Florida. I have had

the pre-test done already, I have 4,200 CFU's in the baby's room and 7,000 CFU's

in the living room.The outdoor samples at the time of the pretest were under 350

CFU's. The contractor has fixed the water instrusion (he claims). The house is

two years old and is currently empty because of the mold levels. The GPS

contract says it will cost $4,000 to do the job (the alternative is $12,000 or

so with no guarantee).

The contract says if it does not pass clearance then I don't have to pay and I

am going to get to choose the tester. GPS says it defines a successful clearance

test as Indoor Air Sample is equal to or less than the Outdoor Sample taken at

the same time. Absent any Federal Standard, I have found that to be an

acceptable standard by most Labs.

If it passes I get clean air and can re-occupy the house plus I get a two year

warranty should the mold return. If GPS can't get it right, then they don't get

any money. I will let you know how it goes!

scottishelf1

SERENA EDWARDS <pushcrash@...> wrote:

I would say nothing negative about the new mold remediation company contracted

by the federal government. I don't know anything about them. But let's put it

like this: I've been subjected to what the federal government considers

appropriate mold remediation. I spend most of my time in constant pain over it,

and my life is a wreck. I've been subjected to what the federal government

considers to be an expert industial hygiensist. This is a guy who shrugs and

says, " There's mold outside than inside. " I'm extremely sorry to hear things

have gone so incredibly wrong in FL, but don't be naive about this government

thing. What the federal government knows about mold remediation, you could put

in a thimble and still have enough room left over to culture up enough stachy to

choke a medium-sized city. Sounds to me like you folks need need to load up on

some of the resident experts around here like Shoemaker, Schaller, and Lipsey if

you intend to get anywhere with this mess.

Serena

www.freeboards.net/index.php?mforum=sickgovernmentb

---------------------------------

Mobile

Take with you! Check email on your mobile phone.

[Guest guest]

Point of demarcation is the damned toxins. I certainly don't live by the " all

mold is evil " maxim, and I differentiate between the allergy and the poisoning.

The allergy is my warning system, and the only reason it's halfway any good at

all is because of the concentration of spores that accompany the toxins, since

they lack the scent and can't be easily detected on their own. If the varieties

of mold that made me sick indoors actually were as thick outdoors, I'd be dead

as a doornail by now. (Would doubtless have eaten a bullet, if the mold didn't

do the trick itself.)

The issue is the difference between a building interior of a mere few thousand

cubic feet, airily compared to an entire planet's worth of " outside " . I actually

had to restrain myself from replying, " No duh! " to this idiot. Concentrate that

stuff in a few poorly-designed vents and blow it on people chained to desks for

months on end, and we're talking about something far beyond what happens in open

spaces outdoors. Plus, I can easily escape it when I encounter it outdoors.

Rumor has it, the guy with the brain tumor isn't doing too well. I can't help

but wonder. He works about a whole 10 or 12 feet from where I was. Nice guy. He

didn't deserve this. He doesn't seem to get it, but then, he isn't quite as

sharp as he was before his brain started growing stuff that doesn't belong there

and they drilled a hole in his skull.

erikmoldwarrior <erikmoldwarrior@...> wrote:

This is a guy who shrugs and says, " There's mold outside than

inside. " Serena

That's reality!

And if the mold outside is enough to make you sick,

no amount of remediation is going to make any difference.

Serena

www.freeboards.net/index.php?mforum=sickgovernmentb

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

, you're missing the point - and a few of the facts, where the federal

government is concerned.

For one thing, the GSA IS responsible for provisioning and auditing ALL those

agencies, CDC, EPA, and the federal courts run by the DOJ included, not to

mention the halls of Congress itself. The idea that CDC and EPA are somehow

special and exempt from GSA oversight is not even a little bit true. The idea

that HHS has responsibility for only " a few " workers is also not true. The

roster extends to well over 100,000 workers total - close to, or actually more

than (I believe) are currently actively enlisted in all military branches, and

spread all over the world. And this doesn't count the number of people housed

directly or indirectly under various public housing programs.

However - if you think that providing a mold remediation contract through the

GSA also implies that those services are necessarily the best available or that

having services available through GSA means that any particular agencies will

necessarily use them, then wrong again. The GSA doesn't even shop companies that

aren't qualified as government contractors. Many times, funding for specific

projects is gained from internal agency funds and individual contracts such that

GSA services may or may not even be used. It is anything but straightforward!

I've spent many hours myself figuring ways to dodge one contract in favor of

another over pricing and contractual issues. It's done every day of the week.

True, the military has typically required a higher standard of care for their

physical buildings and been able to pull it off because they also contain Corps

of Engineer personnel, and because they can control the occupants to an extreme

degree. They are usually extremely effective as housing managers, and I learned

a heck of a lot more from them about managing facilties housing floating

communities than I ever learned from the commercial real estate industry! There

was a time when you could not exit military housing accommodations without

passing a white glove inspection, and they didn't care if most of the occupants

were civilians. You passed, or you couldn't go. (Note that this didn't stop them

from ordering thousands of deploying personnel to inject untested vaccines into

their bodies. Nor failing to admit for years on end that many Gulf War vets are

sick with illnesses that look a WHOLE lot like the same stuff mold victims

have.)

Contrast all that efficiency with the Dept of the Navy, which operates the

Portland Shipyards, where the mold climbs right up the walls and it's somehow ok

to poison people and then ignore the fact that they did it. Or the federal

courthouse in South FL. Or the DOT fiasco, which building had to be evacuated

twice and eventually vacated to the tune of millions because they simply

couldn't figure it out.

Also, contrast that with the many federal offices housed through leasing

agreements with commercial private property owners. Those buildings are serviced

by MANY private sector vendors, some of which couldn't climate control a

tupperware container or effectively remediate a mild case of the hiccups.

I don't think your claim that Social Security is somehow more mission critical

than others makes any sense at all. I can't even fathom that.

The point is that we spend public billions on research into these matters which

is politicized to the point of worthlessness. I've got a mounting pile of

evidence showing that the federal government DOES, in fact, know better, and

still fails and refuses to acknowledge the problem. What they don't know, they

fail to investigate, and there's an even larger pile of evidence to back that

up. The federal government gets the benefit of the sharpest criticism of all

because it is at once charged with knowing about this stuff, finding out what it

doesn't know yet, and because (hello!) the entire HEW Secretariat ONLY EXISTS IN

THE FIRST PLACE due to a reading of the Constitution which makes the public

welfare their sworn responsibility (which is precisely how the public school

systems became subject to federal regulation and funding, as well).

To abuse the very people they are charged with housing, whether residential

occupant, employee, or student is completely reprehensible. They don't get a

pass because some agencies did a bit better than others. And they don't get a

pass because some people DIDN'T get sick. If a private person violates your

rights under color of authority, criminal charges can ensue. Payment of damages

can be ordered. If an organized body of people does so, you have priests going

to jail, and the Church paying victims of said priests. The Church does't get a

pass because some of the stuff they do is actually good or mission-specific, or

because some churches don't have any pervert priests.

The same principle applies to the government - and even moreso, because

virtually EVERTHING the government does, is done under color of authority. Those

agencies are not elected, and we don't get to just shut them down when they

misuse or abuse their authority or blow their mission statements to kingdom

come. The fact that the agencies under HHS hold such sway over public awareness

and knowledge of this topic makes them ABSOLUTELY reponsible for their actions

and inactions as regards this topic.

Serena

www.freeboards.net/index.php?mforum=sickgovernmentb

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