Re: Is there such a thing as dead rattlesnake? Dead Mold

[Guest guest]

Lets put it this way. If you get infected, your immune system will

constantly be trying to kill it but will never get it all, so you will

have your own little 'mycotoxin factory'. You will = it and can't get

away form it is ever.

If you can remove yourself from it or remove it from your home, we all

agree, that is by far the best. However for some people it is

impossible or nearly or may just not be willing to.

Just think it needs to be said so people are so afraid to clean it or

kill it, they live with it until they can move which can be too long a

time. Removal is by FAR best but cleaning it is second best and way

ahead of 'waiting months' or more to move or remove it by some perfect

way.

> Think of it like a dead rattlesnake.

> The venom is still deadly.

> Exposure to that venom will have a similar effect whether the snake

is

> alive or dead.

>

> Developing the conceptual model that killing mold renders it inert

> results in methods which are inadequate to resolve the problem.

>

> Killing it probably doesn't hurt,

> but it also probably doesn't help enough to make a difference.

>

> Like Chin Yang says: " Removal is the only option " .

>

> -

[Guest guest]

I have moved and it is still following me... Can I anyone provide effective

cleaning tips?

barb1283 <barb1283@...> escribió:Lets put it this way. If you get

infected, your immune system will

constantly be trying to kill it but will never get it all, so you will

have your own little 'mycotoxin factory'. You will = it and can't get

away form it is ever.

If you can remove yourself from it or remove it from your home, we all

agree, that is by far the best. However for some people it is

impossible or nearly or may just not be willing to.

Just think it needs to be said so people are so afraid to clean it or

kill it, they live with it until they can move which can be too long a

time. Removal is by FAR best but cleaning it is second best and way

ahead of 'waiting months' or more to move or remove it by some perfect

way.

> Think of it like a dead rattlesnake.

> The venom is still deadly.

> Exposure to that venom will have a similar effect whether the snake

is

> alive or dead.

>

> Developing the conceptual model that killing mold renders it inert

> results in methods which are inadequate to resolve the problem.

>

> Killing it probably doesn't hurt,

> but it also probably doesn't help enough to make a difference.

>

> Like Chin Yang says: " Removal is the only option " .

>

> -

FAIR USE NOTICE:

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Gerardo,

Are you sure people are responding to 'you'??? Do you feel sick?

Do you think you have an infection? You would feel REALLY bad

though if you have a systemic fungal infection.

It's nice that you are so concerned about your effect on others.

Are these people significant to you, your daughter, wife, mother,

brother, best friend, etc? Why do you think it is you who is making

them have allergies or be sick?

> > Think of it like a dead rattlesnake.

> > The venom is still deadly.

> > Exposure to that venom will have a similar effect whether the

snake

> is

> > alive or dead.

> >

> > Developing the conceptual model that killing mold renders it

inert

> > results in methods which are inadequate to resolve the problem.

> >

> > Killing it probably doesn't hurt,

> > but it also probably doesn't help enough to make a difference.

> >

> > Like Chin Yang says: " Removal is the only option " .

> >

> > -

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Barb,

I am, and if not I would be seriously delusional.... It happens at work, on the

subway, when I interact with others at a social event.... Not at home, as I am

currently single.... I am not talking about casual coughs, but coughing fits,

exagerated sniffles, etc..... I am thinking that I do not have a fungal

infection, but that I am carrying dead spores or fragments that are causing

these allergic reaction in others.... I don't know if it is in my hair, skin or

clothes, but I just can't get rid of it. I've tried borax, and all types of

shampoo and soap..... I don't know what to do anymore..... I was advised to get

hand held hepa vacuum nozzle and use it on my hair and clothes, but still need

to buy one..... any advise? is my case that unusual?

barb1283 <barb1283@...> escribió:

Gerardo,

Are you sure people are responding to 'you'??? Do you feel sick?

Do you think you have an infection? You would feel REALLY bad

though if you have a systemic fungal infection.

It's nice that you are so concerned about your effect on others.

Are these people significant to you, your daughter, wife, mother,

brother, best friend, etc? Why do you think it is you who is making

them have allergies or be sick?

> > Think of it like a dead rattlesnake.

> > The venom is still deadly.

> > Exposure to that venom will have a similar effect whether the

snake

> is

> > alive or dead.

> >

> > Developing the conceptual model that killing mold renders it

inert

> > results in methods which are inadequate to resolve the problem.

> >

> > Killing it probably doesn't hurt,

> > but it also probably doesn't help enough to make a difference.

> >

> > Like Chin Yang says: " Removal is the only option " .

> >

> > -

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Gerardo, here's the thing I'm wondering. Once you've become sensitive to mold

yourself, it's almost unreal how much your own perceptions change and how you

begin perceiving reactions in others so quickly. I don't doubt for an instant

that you're observing what you say you are in others.

But let's try this: say, I'm riding on a bus, nothing special going on. It feels

and smells just like a public bus that has been cleaned ages ago with some kind

of disagreeable cleaser, long since undone by the presence of hundreds of people

in every stage of grooming or lack thereof, and illness from halitosis to cancer

- but pretty low-key. They've mostly come and gone and the A/C has been on

continuously. Smells just like a public bus, actually.

We come to a stop, and you get on. Within seconds, I'm coughing and breathless.

To you, it would look like it started the instant you showed up.

You get off the bus at the next stop. A couple of other riders leave and new

ones get on. I stop coughing. My calves and feet begin to swell into little

balloons again.

Two stops later, a new rider gets on. He walks past me to a seat. I start

sneezing, my sinuses back up, and I feel weak. The inside of my nose burns, and

I can smell/taste/feel a very strong mold hit coming off his clothes. I look

around, notice a lady across from me suddenly slump and her eyes become heavy. I

hear her tell her companion that she suddenly wants a nap. I wonder if she got

the hit and just doesn't realize what it was. No time to explain or question,

much as I want to. I'm struggling to hang on until the next stop, where I HAVE

to get off that bus, no matter what!

To me, all but the last guy with the hold hit is just day in the ever-changing

zoo of symptoms I live with. They come and go by the hour. Or even quicker. To

you, it might look like you caused all the caughing and breathlessness, but you

didn't. My physical problems were there long before you arrived. The guy with

the mold on him did cause me some problems, but he is oblivious to it, and for

the most part, no one but me and the lady who slumped seem to be affected in

the least. And for all I know, she may have been reacting to something in the

bag full of groceries her friend was holding, or the traces of bath soap still

on the guy in front of her, or some other problem she brought on board with her.

You see what I mean? You can't necessarily tie the random appearance of other

people's symptoms to yourself. You don't know where they were before you got

there, or what happens to them after you leave. If you were able to question

some person you see reacting regularly and verify that the symptoms only appear

with you and leave when you go, then maybe you'd have an avenue of further

investigation. Or, if you were in the presence of another moldie, they could

tell you right quick if it was you. But without either of those two things

happening, I would have to think that your own limited (human) ability to know

things outside the limits of your own perceptics and your newfound

hyperawareness might be throwing you for a loop. If you do no more than take

care of your own symptoms and those in your home or workplace who are with you

for extended periods, then you are probably taking care of others by extension.

And really, no one could ask any more of you.

Just some thoughts...

Serena

www.freeboards.net/index.php?mforum=sickgovernmentb

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Hi Serena, your response essentially confirms my fears..... You mention a second

guy that walks on the bus and his clothes pass the mold on to you... so it is,

to say the least, feasible.... I am saying that I believe I may be that second

guy and that I don't know how to get rid of the mold left over, particles,

spores, toxins or whatever it is.... the man you say was passing you the spores

would not remain oblivious to the fact for a very long time if it keeps

happening in smaller venues other than a bus, don't you think? I've already

moved from my old apartment. The incidents I speak of are not random or

sporadic, but rather consistent and repetitive patterns. I don't know what to

do.... the only other option left that I haven't tried is using a hepa hand

vacuum cleaner on my hair and clothes...... if anyone has any other

suggestions...... I really wish these were delusions or hypochondria, as I would

be more hopeful as far as solving the problem goes.....

SERENA EDWARDS <pushcrash@...> escribió:

Gerardo, here's the thing I'm wondering. Once you've become sensitive to mold

yourself, it's almost unreal how much your own perceptions change and how you

begin perceiving reactions in others so quickly. I don't doubt for an instant

that you're observing what you say you are in others.

But let's try this: say, I'm riding on a bus, nothing special going on. It feels

and smells just like a public bus that has been cleaned ages ago with some kind

of disagreeable cleaser, long since undone by the presence of hundreds of people

in every stage of grooming or lack thereof, and illness from halitosis to cancer

- but pretty low-key. They've mostly come and gone and the A/C has been on

continuously. Smells just like a public bus, actually.

We come to a stop, and you get on. Within seconds, I'm coughing and breathless.

To you, it would look like it started the instant you showed up.

You get off the bus at the next stop. A couple of other riders leave and new

ones get on. I stop coughing. My calves and feet begin to swell into little

balloons again.

Two stops later, a new rider gets on. He walks past me to a seat. I start

sneezing, my sinuses back up, and I feel weak. The inside of my nose burns, and

I can smell/taste/feel a very strong mold hit coming off his clothes. I look

around, notice a lady across from me suddenly slump and her eyes become heavy. I

hear her tell her companion that she suddenly wants a nap. I wonder if she got

the hit and just doesn't realize what it was. No time to explain or question,

much as I want to. I'm struggling to hang on until the next stop, where I HAVE

to get off that bus, no matter what!

To me, all but the last guy with the hold hit is just day in the ever-changing

zoo of symptoms I live with. They come and go by the hour. Or even quicker. To

you, it might look like you caused all the caughing and breathlessness, but you

didn't. My physical problems were there long before you arrived. The guy with

the mold on him did cause me some problems, but he is oblivious to it, and for

the most part, no one but me and the lady who slumped seem to be affected in

the least. And for all I know, she may have been reacting to something in the

bag full of groceries her friend was holding, or the traces of bath soap still

on the guy in front of her, or some other problem she brought on board with her.

You see what I mean? You can't necessarily tie the random appearance of other

people's symptoms to yourself. You don't know where they were before you got

there, or what happens to them after you leave. If you were able to question

some person you see reacting regularly and verify that the symptoms only appear

with you and leave when you go, then maybe you'd have an avenue of further

investigation. Or, if you were in the presence of another moldie, they could

tell you right quick if it was you. But without either of those two things

happening, I would have to think that your own limited (human) ability to know

things outside the limits of your own perceptics and your newfound

hyperawareness might be throwing you for a loop. If you do no more than take

care of your own symptoms and those in your home or workplace who are with you

for extended periods, then you are probably taking care of others by extension.

And really, no one could ask any more of you.

Just some thoughts...

Serena

www.freeboards.net/index.php?mforum=sickgovernmentb

---------------------------------

Sports

Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

[Guest guest]

Yes, I get your point. And it is well taken, too. But the guys carrying the mold

around DO seem to be absolutely oblivious. Not everyone is allergic, not

everyone lacks the ability to filter toxins from their system. The stuff may be

just killing me, but I can assure you, I can walk into a building just crowded

with the stuff (and have done so many times), and yet be the only one who

appears to so much as notice it. And that, more than anything else, is what has

me fairly convinced that you are probably worrying more than strictly necessary.

I watch, too. When someone carries a strong mold hit in with them, I notice -

but am usually in a very small, very exclusive crowd of...one. I may suspect

someone else got hit based on close observation, but all I can do is suspect.

I suppose you could rig an experiment to prove or disprove your suspicions once

and for all. Jonathon and are past masters at that sort of thing and have

both taken it far beyond the limits of what most people would try. Ideas, guys?

Serena

www.freeboards.net/index.php?mforum=sickgovernmentb

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Perhaps get rid of all your clothes and bedding etc and start over

with these or anything you had before. and would tell

you how to do this. I don't have sensitivity to mold. I have a weak

immune system and so concerned about infection.

> Hi Barb,

>

> I am, and if not I would be seriously delusional.... It happens at

work, on the subway, when I interact with others at a social event....

Not at home, as I am currently single.... I am not talking about

casual coughs, but coughing fits, exagerated sniffles, etc..... I am

thinking that I do not have a fungal

[Guest guest]

PS On getting rid of clothes, etc. If they are of significant value,

I'd put them into storage in case that doesn't do the trick. I

believe said after awhile in storage, mycotoxins clear and you

can use them in future, I believe??

> Hi Serena, your response essentially confirms my fears..... You

mention a second guy that walks on the bus and his clothes pass the

mold on to you... so it is, to say the least, feasible.... I am saying

that I believe I may be that second guy and that I don't know how to

get rid of the mold

[Guest guest]

> I'd put them into storage in case that doesn't do the trick. I

> believe said after awhile in storage, mycotoxins clear and

you

> can use them in future, I believe??

>

Yes. My stuff actually died down after about five years. I got sick

and tired of half measures and wanted to take everything to the

absolute limit.

I turned myself into an experiment and it paid off.

If you remember my old post about my green waterproof binoculars, it

was an object that I experimentally got out of storage and washed in

soap and water - and it made no damn differnce at all!

That was enough to convince me of what my level of reactivity

required!

No clothes, no papers, no furniture, no electronics, no car, no

NOTHING went with me. Everything I owned went into storage.

Not only that, but I took various objects that were OBVIOUSLY cross

contaminated since they were safe until they spent time in an area

that was " bad " and went out to the desert. I got myself as " good "

as I can possibly be to create a " baseline " for exposure and did

proximity testing to see how close I could be and how long it took

to upregulate my response.

From that moment on, anything I brought into my " safe " space was

subjected to that same test before it could spend time in my

presence. If I perceived the vaguest hint of a response, out it

goes. I might be able to use it for a time, but there is no way

that ANYTHING that even slightly causes a response can stay with me

while I sleep.

Hey! I didn't say it was easy!

And you don't walk out of being a prototype for the creation

of " Chronic Fatigue Syndrome " and return to mountain climbing by any

means known to doctors (other than Shoemaker).

So the choice was to create an entirely new kind of lifestyle built

entirely around this reactivity, or to stay stuck where I was.

Hell, it's not even a choice!

This is my LIFE we're talking about!

-

[Guest guest]

, isn't is unusual that my symptoms are pretty much gone, but am causing

reactions in others....? in your case, were you causing reactions in others? How

do you guys go on with your social lives and make a living?

erikmoldwarrior <erikmoldwarrior@...> escribió:

> I'd put them into storage in case that doesn't do the trick. I

> believe said after awhile in storage, mycotoxins clear and

you

> can use them in future, I believe??

>

Yes. My stuff actually died down after about five years. I got sick

and tired of half measures and wanted to take everything to the

absolute limit.

I turned myself into an experiment and it paid off.

If you remember my old post about my green waterproof binoculars, it

was an object that I experimentally got out of storage and washed in

soap and water - and it made no damn differnce at all!

That was enough to convince me of what my level of reactivity

required!

No clothes, no papers, no furniture, no electronics, no car, no

NOTHING went with me. Everything I owned went into storage.

Not only that, but I took various objects that were OBVIOUSLY cross

contaminated since they were safe until they spent time in an area

that was " bad " and went out to the desert. I got myself as " good "

as I can possibly be to create a " baseline " for exposure and did

proximity testing to see how close I could be and how long it took

to upregulate my response.

From that moment on, anything I brought into my " safe " space was

subjected to that same test before it could spend time in my

presence. If I perceived the vaguest hint of a response, out it

goes. I might be able to use it for a time, but there is no way

that ANYTHING that even slightly causes a response can stay with me

while I sleep.

Hey! I didn't say it was easy!

And you don't walk out of being a prototype for the creation

of " Chronic Fatigue Syndrome " and return to mountain climbing by any

means known to doctors (other than Shoemaker).

So the choice was to create an entirely new kind of lifestyle built

entirely around this reactivity, or to stay stuck where I was.

Hell, it's not even a choice!

This is my LIFE we're talking about!

-

FAIR USE NOTICE:

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

,

Did you live in mobile home? Is that how you did it? It's so hard

for a woman to do something this bold but...if I'm desperate enough!!!

> Yes. My stuff actually died down after about five years. I got sick

> and tired of half measures and wanted to take everything to the

> absolute limit.

> I turned myself into an experiment and it paid off.

>

>

[Guest guest]

> ,

> Did you live in mobile home? Is that how you did it? It's so hard

> for a woman to do something this bold but...if I'm desperate

enough!!!

>

No. Mobile homes are terrible and most RV's aren't much better.

Before anyone goes the RV route, go to the RV wrecking yard and look

inside wrecked RV's to see the amount of mold hidden in walls and

structure.

I wanted a mobile habitat, but it had to be completely inert and mold

unfriendly with a design that allowed for TOTAL decontamination.

Since I couldn't find a design that fit my specifications, I built my

own camper. It works BEAUTIFULLY and I have enjoyed FABULOUS control

over exposures and it has absolutely been the ideal means of dealing

with this horrific reactivity.

It has been the ideal test bed for isolating characteristics of

regional plumes and has been worth all the effort I put into its

construction.

-