Re: Do Dr.s react to unnatural phenonema ?

[Guest guest]

> ,

> My experience agrees mostly with yours for those that are reactive

to both mold and chemicals. Because nothing is absolute, I always

have to be on the alert for the exception, but overall, if my

> recommendations emphasized chemical removal the results tended to

be modest at best. However, when the focus was on stopping mold

> exposure, both tended to improve.

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

Carl, this is the reason behind my intense " debates " with CFS

researchers. The myco-reactivity came first for me, and since I was

familiar with the concept of " spreading " , I suspected that molds

produced toxins and were my primary irritant.

And MCSers know that avoidance of the primary trigger has the

capacity to regulate and modulate immune response more than

attempting the impossible task of escaping all the acquired

secondary irritants.

But when I approached hundreds of doctors, allergists,

immunologists, toxicologists, mycologists and CFS researchers - the

universal response was disinterest and denial of the specificity of

mycotoxins as a driving force.

So I just proceeded with my own " crazy mold theory " and waited for

the world to catch up .

And I have watched the variables of mycotoxin exposure exert this

similar influence upon the immune responses of others - and not just

chemical reactivities either! Unusual bacterial, viral and fungal

infections have all been part of the package, and doctors have been

completely clueless, but refuse to listen to those of us who HAVE a

clue.

The automatic dismissal and rejection of the concept has been so

vigorous that instead of wasting time begging people to listen, I

apply " The Intelligence Test " to see if someone has the sort of mind

that would respond with interest to the story of a CFS prototype who

is out mountain climbing as a direct result of mycotoxin avoidance.

If a doctor or patient fails to find anything noteworthy, it is an

indication that they are more interested in dismissing clues than

finding them - and that their mindset is not open and geared to the

pursuit of answers and are unlikely to be mentally suited for this

type of investigation. All doctors failed the test and refused to

listen to anything about mold - even if paid - until finally I told

my story to a newsgroup of doctors.

It's worthwhile to note that when Dr Shoemaker heard my story, he

contacted me instantly. Here is a true researcher, dedicated to

finding answers - who will go to great lengths and personal expense

to pursue abnormalities and discrepancies which others overlook.

Dr Shoemaker has done a great deal of work on the mycotoxin

connection to MCS and his observation is he has seen no case of MCS

in which the activation of immune complements fails to respond to

mold. It is my personal suspicion that the answer to

this " mycotoxin specificity " will be found in the " history " of

innate immune response programming which is contained in the

regulatory genes.

As we see in Mold Warriors, disparate immune responses which only

appear unconnected actually converge and follow the same " biotoxin

pathway " .

And then, once upregulated, the problem is not the trigger itself as

much as the excessive duration of the inflammatory response which

will not switched off until conditions are pristine enough for a

release of anti-inflammatory cytokines.

-

[Guest guest]

> In any case, the CSM does appear to have benefit, even when this

is the case. And that would make perfect sense. The toxins are still

present, and they still have to be gotten rid of. So CSM is still

indispensable to the process. According to my present reading of the

material there are no possible conditions pristine enough to do

anything more than shut down that one portion of the biotoxin

pathway.

>

> So. One more mystery. Your solution works fabulously for you, but

would not do so for me. That we argued this well before having this

additional information makes me wonder if our basic individual

instincts aren't at least as good as we thought they were, and maybe

even better. -Serena

Well Serena, my solution has worked for other people like Dr D who

have undertaken the extreme approach without doing CSM because it

was unavailable or not yet discovered.

I don't know what we argued about before, except that I just made a

correction to your statement that my ability to sense mold only

applies to spores but tells us nothing about mycotoxins. My stories

emphasize the complete opposite or I wouldn't even have discovered

that it was a toxin in the first place.

In reference to one of your recent discussions, I guess you may have

skimmed Mold Warriors and might not have seen that these toxins are

not proteins, but are " protein synthesis inhibitors " and that Dr

Shomaker remarks upon the peculliarity that they are exactly the

same size as a water molecule.

Have you tried to locate to a pristine location to test the effect

yet, or are you just speculating that based upon your understanding

of the material you've read that it will not suffice in your case?

-

[Guest guest]

I'll adjust what I said to " discuss " , rather than " argue " , though the general

direction of the discussion was a bit different at the time, from what I recall.

I don't think we have any serious disagreement about the mold. But I really

don't think I ever referred to them as proteins. I've never thought of them as

proteins, for that matter. I merely said I'd like to actually see them under a

microscope.

Although it does take me much longer to read and retain information that it once

did, I have not become an idiot. Rather than skim, I read and re-read as much

and as widely as necessity dictates.

I will not be leaving here again any time soon, if that's what you meant. My

path is different and there is zero possibility of that happening, for reasons I

choose not to discuss with you. In any case, I'm really not someone you need to

debate. I don't dispute that your own reality is whatever you may say it is. To

argue such a thing would be ludicrous. I had merely mentioned to you some

reasons why I thought perhaps others might have resisted your past attempts to

persuade them into your choice of lifestyle. The information was freely given,

so do with it as you will.

Serena

www.freeboards.net/index.php?mforum=sickgovernmentb

---------------------------------

Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour

[Guest guest]

>

> erikmoldwarrior <erikmoldwarrior@e...> wrote:

>

> And then, once upregulated, the problem is not the trigger itself as

> much as the excessive duration of the inflammatory response which

> will not switched off until conditions are pristine enough for a

> release of anti-inflammatory cytokines.

> -

I have to say that you, , have been very helpful to me in the

past, as I read your descriptions of how you trained yourself to

recognize the " mold hits " and how you handled these and recognized

them as such. I have been able to do so myself, as a result of your

influence. When in a moldy building or outside by moldy fruit, etc., I

am cognizant of the first physical reactions to the presence of mold -

allowing me to stop what I am doing and look around, recognize the

source (I can usually see it or smell it) and thus, avoid it (get out

or away). Sometimes I have to change clothes or completely bathe to

get rid of it - but lately haven't had to go to those extremes. Living

in Southern CA in the land of flat roofs with buildings that aren't

designed for wet weather, I very frequently note the presence of moldy

HVACS and leaky roofs, etc., causing mold. With this heightened

awareness and refusal to expose myself (I totally refuse and draw the

line in the sand - regaining health is #1 above all else)...it is

working. In addition, a high fiber diet, avoiding food triggers, and B-

Vitamin complex has made an immense difference, though it all can come

back in a short while when exposed to enough chemicals or molds, thus

the extreme avoidance. Luckily, living in a drier climate, I have that

advantage, so outside isn't much of a problem. Inside is, in many

buildings. So I avoid them. Which means I don't live as I used to. But

since health is the goal, and this seems to be working (improving my

health) I follow these methods religiously. Those who don't suffer and

stay sick. It is that simple. So, thank you so very much, !