Re: Severe pain in ME/CFS.

[Guest guest]

Wow; that's quite a list. I don't recognize some of the

names, so this may be something you've already tried....

if not, how about a tricyclic anti-depressant:

from:

http://www.cfids.org/archives/2001rr/2001-rr3-article01.asp

" Pain control is another factor that I consider. TCAs increase levels

of norepinephrine in the central nervous system, which will increase

the patient's pain threshold. This is why Elavil (amitriptyline) is

often used to treat FM and CFS. However, while Elavil has a soporific

effect, it reduces deep sleep and in the long run may not be the best

choice for patients having trouble sleeping. Effexor (venlafaxine) is

a serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor that mayalso

increase the pain threshold. "

>

> Dear List,

>

> The most severe ME/CFS patient I have seen is a 32 year old women.

She is bed/wheelchair bound and can not sit up for more than a few

minutes. Requires full time care. Her most immediate issue is severe

24 hour/day head pain. Her myalgia has also flared up in the last

week and is severe, and also has joint pain in her

ankles/knees/elbows/wrists. Below is a list of the treatments she has

tried for pain to date emailed to me from her mother who is her full

time carer. Almost all treatments have resulted in no change. A few

between 0-20% relief. The only ones which have had more than 20%

benefit are tramadol (atypical opioid) which produced about a 30-40%

benefit and an occipital nerve block she recently received after

being rushed to the emergency department with excruciating pain. They

also gave her largactil which made no difference and then an indicid

suppository which also did not help but she had an allergic reaction

to. A recent botox injection did not help either. We are working on

a longer term plan to treat the underlying causes of her symptoms but

we are desperate to find something to help her pain. I would greatly

appreciated any suggestions?

>

> Best regards,

>

> Blake Graham, B.Sc (Honours)

> Clinical Nutritionist

> ME/CFS Australia (WA)

>

>

> -------------------

>

> Neurontin

> Asprin

> Panadiene forte Panadol

> Mersyndol

> Viox

> Celebrex

> Endone Digesic

> Traumeel

> Pain creams

> Acupuncture

> Chiropractic

> Tens Machine

> Hypnosis

> Stretching

> Endep

> Ocycodone

> Botox

> Prolotherapy

> Triggerpoint therapy

> Glucosamine

> Chondroitin

> MSM

> Fish oil

> Bromelain

> Kaprex by Metagenics

> Magnesium (IV and oral)

> Calcium

> Cortisol/DHEA/Pregnenalone/Thyroid/Sex Hormones

> Relaxation exercises

> Meditation

> Massage

> Reiki

> Thought field Therapy

> Hypnotherapy

> Qui Gung

> Breathing exercises

> Cognitive behavioural Therapy

> General counseling and Support

> Largactil

> Occipital Block

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Dear List,

>

> The most severe ME/CFS patient I have seen is a 32 year old women.

She is bed/wheelchair bound and can not sit up for more than a few

minutes. Requires full time care. Her most immediate issue is severe

24 hour/day head pain. Her myalgia has also flared up in the last week

and is severe, and also has joint pain in her ankles/knees/elbows/wrists.

Hi Blake,

Are you familiar with the town Study where they have found

abnormal proteins in the spinal fluid? I just got back from this

study and they took 20ml of spinal fluid for the study. They told me

that I might have relief from my symptoms due to the fact the the

brain does not have as much pressure.

They were right. I have less muscle pain, no intercostal neuralgia,

etc, etc. It won't last long. In the study they have found abnormal

pressures. Normal is 8-14, mine was 16. For the study, they decided

to use 18-20 as Abnormal. They are finding readings at the level and

above. Perhaps this could be her issue?

Also, I saw this recently on other board. I have removed any

identifying comments but thought it might help your thought process.

" regarding Atlas Orthospinology treatments, with a Chiropractor who

specializes in doing only adjustment of the Atlas, the top bone of the

spine, which your head is balanced on.

The average person whose Atlas is out of whack is out about 1-6

degrees. For example, Montel claims just one session of this

treatment took away 50% of his MS pain, and he was only 1 degree out

of alignment.

there may be something to this idea, especially for those of us that

had whiplash or other head/neck injuries within the two year period

prior to our developing Fibro. Other names for treatments that achieve

the same results are Atlas adjustment, Upper Cervical Chiropractic,

NUCCA, and Atlas "

Lastly, what about chiari malformation? or Atypical Migraine or

vascular issues? Also, there is a situation where the brain can

herniate within the structures. There are 4 different types of brain

herniation. (I learned this at town too).

Best of Luck,

Marti

[Guest guest]

Hi, Blake.

I also have 24/7 head pain that a few others with ME/CFS have. I've

probably tried more than your client to no avail, and Elavil, like it

has me, may improve overall body pain and sleep in her case, but not

this particular brain pain.

The only thing that has touched and reduced it in me is Lyrica. It's

far superior to neurontin in potency and binding to receptors that are

good to target. I did have two intolerable side effects from it

requiring me to stop use, but that may be just my case and it did

reduce my brain pain significantly.

Until proven all out cures occur as is hoped will happen from

protocols such as Rich's simplified approach, I think Lyrica has

potential for cases like hers as do a few other anticonvulsants such

as Lamictal and Tegretol that may reduce glutamate induced neuron

excitability in poorly myelinated focal areas in the brain producing

the pain and cognitive difficulties in ME/CFS.

" Blake Graham " <blanket@...> wrote:

>

> Dear List,

>

> The most severe ME/CFS patient I have seen is a 32 year old women.

She is bed/wheelchair bound and can not sit up for more than a few

minutes. Requires full time care. Her most immediate issue is severe

24 hour/day head pain. Her myalgia has also flared up in the last week

and is severe, and also has joint pain in her

ankles/knees/elbows/wrists. Below is a list of the treatments she has

tried for pain to date emailed to me from her mother who is her full

time carer. Almost all treatments have resulted in no change. A few

between 0-20% relief. The only ones which have had more than 20%

benefit are tramadol (atypical opioid) which produced about a 30-40%

benefit and an occipital nerve block she recently received after being

rushed to the emergency department with excruciating pain. They also

gave her largactil which made no difference and then an indicid

suppository which also did not help but she had an allergic reaction

to. A recent botox injection did not help either. We are working on a

longer term plan to treat the underlying causes of her symptoms but we

are desperate to find something to help her pain. I would greatly

appreciated any suggestions?

>

> Best regards,

>

> Blake Graham, B.Sc (Honours)

> Clinical Nutritionist

> ME/CFS Australia (WA)

>

>

> -------------------

>

> Neurontin

> Asprin

> Panadiene forte Panadol

> Mersyndol

> Viox

> Celebrex

> Endone Digesic

> Traumeel

> Pain creams

> Acupuncture

> Chiropractic

> Tens Machine

> Hypnosis

> Stretching

> Endep

> Ocycodone

> Botox

> Prolotherapy

> Triggerpoint therapy

> Glucosamine

> Chondroitin

> MSM

> Fish oil

> Bromelain

> Kaprex by Metagenics

> Magnesium (IV and oral)

> Calcium

> Cortisol/DHEA/Pregnenalone/Thyroid/Sex Hormones

> Relaxation exercises

> Meditation

> Massage

> Reiki

> Thought field Therapy

> Hypnotherapy

> Qui Gung

> Breathing exercises

> Cognitive behavioural Therapy

> General counseling and Support

> Largactil

> Occipital Block

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi, Blake.

>

> I also have 24/7 head pain that a few others with ME/CFS have.

I've

> probably tried more than your client to no avail, and Elavil, like

it

> has me, may improve overall body pain and sleep in her case, but

not

> this particular brain pain.

I think Lyrica has

> potential for cases like hers as do a few other anticonvulsants

such

> as Lamictal and Tegretol that may reduce glutamate induced neuron

> excitability in poorly myelinated focal areas in the brain

producing

> the pain and cognitive difficulties in ME/CFS.

>

>

If 's on track, then other glutmate reducing, or glutamate

modulating neuron excitability would work. This would also include

the following:

No excitotoxins (read the Taste that Kills- Dr. Russel Blaylock)

No MSG or aspartate (including from supplements)

No trans fat or partially hydo oils

No glutatmine (used to heal leaky gut)

To modulate Glutamate

• Branched Chain Amino Acids

• Pycnogenol

• Grape Seed Extract

• GABA

• Valerian Root

• Nerve Calm RNA

• Lithium Orotate

Also, I have learned that Klonipin modulates the glutamate levels in

brain. It is not a popular drug but it was recently prescribed to

me to reduce the autonomic system response of flight or fight. I

researched it and it protects the brain from damage due to

excitability. Very small doses starting at .5 mg per day.

I would also add the suggestion of full allergy workup or strict

elimination diet. Perhaps there is an amino acid that cannot be

tolerated or a reaction to food dye. Not trying to trivialize but

it could be something like that made worse by a genetic issue.

Marti

[Guest guest]

Hi Blake,

Have you considered taurine or serrapeptase?

Can she be reacting to something she eats or drinks?

In the past I could go from no pain at all to horrible pains in 20 minutes

time if I ate something wrong.

Just my 2 cents.

All the best,

Yannic

>

> " Blake Graham " <blanket@...> wrote:

> >

> > Dear List,

> >

> > The most severe ME/CFS patient I have seen is a 32 year old women.

> She is bed/wheelchair bound and can not sit up for more than a few

> minutes. Requires full time care. Her most immediate issue is severe

> 24 hour/day head pain. Her myalgia has also flared up in the last week

> and is severe, and also has joint pain in her

> ankles/knees/elbows/wrists. Below is a list of the treatments she has

> tried for pain to date emailed to me from her mother who is her full

> time carer. Almost all treatments have resulted in no change. A few

> between 0-20% relief. The only ones which have had more than 20%

> benefit are tramadol (atypical opioid) which produced about a 30-40%

> benefit and an occipital nerve block she recently received after being

> rushed to the emergency department with excruciating pain. They also

> gave her largactil which made no difference and then an indicid

> suppository which also did not help but she had an allergic reaction

> to. A recent botox injection did not help either. We are working on a

> longer term plan to treat the underlying causes of her symptoms but we

> are desperate to find something to help her pain. I would greatly

> appreciated any suggestions?

> >

> > Best regards,

> >

> > Blake Graham, B.Sc (Honours)

> > Clinical Nutritionist

> > ME/CFS Australia (WA)

> >

> >

> > -------------------

> >

> > Neurontin

> > Asprin

> > Panadiene forte Panadol

> > Mersyndol

> > Viox

> > Celebrex

> > Endone Digesic

> > Traumeel

> > Pain creams

> > Acupuncture

> > Chiropractic

> > Tens Machine

> > Hypnosis

> > Stretching

> > Endep

> > Ocycodone

> > Botox

> > Prolotherapy

> > Triggerpoint therapy

> > Glucosamine

> > Chondroitin

> > MSM

> > Fish oil

> > Bromelain

> > Kaprex by Metagenics

> > Magnesium (IV and oral)

> > Calcium

> > Cortisol/DHEA/Pregnenalone/Thyroid/Sex Hormones

> > Relaxation exercises

> > Meditation

> > Massage

> > Reiki

> > Thought field Therapy

> > Hypnotherapy

> > Qui Gung

> > Breathing exercises

> > Cognitive behavioural Therapy

> > General counseling and Support

> > Largactil

> > Occipital Block

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I am in the same boat, w/ severe head pain , neuropathic pain and

skin pain since a flare in 2005. The pain has left me bedridden and

unable to sit up except for a few minutes here or there.

And I have tried most of the things on your list as well -- all to no

avail, as well.

At one point my GP told me not to bother going to the ER for severe

pain flare ups anymore because they could do nothing for me there.

Morphine, Demerol etc. -- nothing would even touch the pain.

I am on a daily mix of Oxycontin, Percocet and Neurontin but it does

very little.

However, after 3 years, I am getting somewhat better. I don't know

why... Time? Prayer? Meds? Vitamins and Supplements? Immunopro?

Diet? Who knows.

I do take serrapeptease as this person suggested. I do think it

works a little. But not enough and not for very long. And

increasing the dose actually made the pain worse. But the drug that

provides the most pain relief is Zopiclone. I found this out by

accident. It is actually a sleep med. After I take it I feel less

pain. It was the only thing that kept me sane over the past three

years -- knowing that at the end of the day I would get to take a

Zopiclone and would then have a few hours of partial relief. Enough

relief to be able to fall asleep. No doctor could explain why it

acted as a painkiller, however. But it does. Other sleep meds

didn't but Zopiclone did.

Someone here once posted an article on carbamazepine. I am

considering trying it for pain and sound/light sensitivity issues.

Here's the link of the study:

http://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/reprint/11/1/97.pdf

And if you ever discover something that helps, for gosh sakes let us

know, too... God bless that poor woman. She is in my prayers.

-Dani

>

> Hi Blake,

>

> Have you considered taurine or serrapeptase?

>

> Can she be reacting to something she eats or drinks?

>

> In the past I could go from no pain at all to horrible pains in 20

minutes

> time if I ate something wrong.

>

> Just my 2 cents.

>

> All the best,

> Yannic

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> To modulate Glutamate

> • Lithium Orotate

Lith Oro in trace mineral amounts of 500 mcg - 10 mg

is an " upper " and also stimulates the thyroid.

(Caution to autoimmune thyroid and hyperthyroid patients.)

This " upper " effect can be perceived within seconds

of the lith oro touching the mucous membranes of the mouth.

*This is one strong substance.*

Lith oro has been said to modulate glutamate

in the therapeutic amounts of 120-480 mg, as used in Bipolar

(along with high dose fish oil which is vasodilating and BP

lowering). I'd look for other glutamate solutions

for non-bipolar persons.

" Stimulating in small amounts, sedating in higher amounts " is

the principle that applies to a few other substances also such

as gotu kola herb and tricyclic antidepressants for example.

More on Lith Oro and glutamate:

http://www.apa.org/monitor/sep98/lith.html

btw high nitric oxide and peroxynitrite and resulting

oxidative stress and neurological damage levels could be

confused with high glutamate based on felt sense in the

head/brain, and the approaches to each would be different.

Carol W.

willis_protocols

[Guest guest]

My opinion is:

Concerning the Zopiclone; I think this is known as Lunesta; but I may

be wrong; Lunesta is a Gaba reuptake inhibitor;

Gaba is an amino acid;

Gaba is known as the Calming chemical; so sounds like a winner to me.-

(Gaba is related to Vitamin B6 and B6 is correlated with restful

sleep); I would not do the Carbamazepine; too many side effects.

You could do some Gaba supplements with Niacin and Inositol though. A.

(Many prescriptions are modeled after botanicals or nutrients...)--

In , " dtgreene2003 "

<dtgreene2003@...> wrote:

>

> I am in the same boat, w/ severe head pain , neuropathic pain and

> skin pain since a flare in 2005. The pain has left me bedridden

and

> unable to sit up except for a few minutes here or there.

> And I have tried most of the things on your list as well -- all to

no

> avail, as well.

> At one point my GP told me not to bother going to the ER for severe

> pain flare ups anymore because they could do nothing for me there.

> Morphine, Demerol etc. -- nothing would even touch the pain.

>

> I am on a daily mix of Oxycontin, Percocet and Neurontin but it

does

> very little.

>

> However, after 3 years, I am getting somewhat better. I don't know

> why... Time? Prayer? Meds? Vitamins and Supplements? Immunopro?

> Diet? Who knows.

>

> I do take serrapeptease as this person suggested. I do think it

> works a little. But not enough and not for very long. And

> increasing the dose actually made the pain worse. But the drug

that

> provides the most pain relief is Zopiclone. I found this out by

> accident. It is actually a sleep med. After I take it I feel less

> pain. It was the only thing that kept me sane over the past three

> years -- knowing that at the end of the day I would get to take a

> Zopiclone and would then have a few hours of partial relief.

Enough

> relief to be able to fall asleep. No doctor could explain why it

> acted as a painkiller, however. But it does. Other sleep meds

> didn't but Zopiclone did.

>

> Someone here once posted an article on carbamazepine. I am

> considering trying it for pain and sound/light sensitivity issues.

> Here's the link of the study:

> http://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/reprint/11/1/97.pdf

>

> And if you ever discover something that helps, for gosh sakes let

us

> know, too... God bless that poor woman. She is in my prayers.

>

> -Dani

>

>

> >

> > Hi Blake,

> >

> > Have you considered taurine or serrapeptase?

> >

> > Can she be reacting to something she eats or drinks?

> >

> > In the past I could go from no pain at all to horrible pains in

20

> minutes

> > time if I ate something wrong.

> >

> > Just my 2 cents.

> >

> > All the best,

> > Yannic

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hey thanks for this!!! Zopiclone is a Gaba reuptake inhibitor -- OK,

so could one try the Gaba supplements, Niacin and Inositol along with

the Zopiclone too? Or is it a case of choose one or the other?

And the lady is on Gabapentin (Neurontin), too (as am I) and of

course that has an effect on the body's Gaba, too. But not sure what

its action is. Is it safe to take Gaba supplements when you are on

Gabapentin? And zopiclone together? All three? Whew -- I need

a " Gaba 101 " here. Anyone care to explain?

> >

> > I am in the same boat, w/ severe head pain , neuropathic pain and

> > skin pain since a flare in 2005. The pain has left me bedridden

> and

> > unable to sit up except for a few minutes here or there. rse.

But the drug

> that

> > provides the most pain relief is Zopiclone. I found this out by

> > accident. It is actually a sleep med. After I take it I feel

less

> > pain. It was the only thing that kept me sane over the past three

> > years -- knowing that at the end of the day I would get to take a

> > Zopiclone and would then have a few hours of partial relief.

> Enough

> > relief to be able to fall asleep. No doctor could explain why it

> > acted as a painkiller, however. But it does. Other sleep meds

> > didn't but Zopiclone did.

> >

> > Someone here once posted an article on carbamazepine. I am

> > considering trying it for pain and sound/light sensitivity

issues.

> > Here's the link of the study:

> > http://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/reprint/11/1/97.pdf

> >

> > > > -Dani

> >

> > ---> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Might want to look into lyme disease.  Public Health Alert .org is a good site. 

Lyme professionals and patients put together this newletter to keep people

informed of current events.

I tested very low on the bands but have gotten much improvement after treatment

for a year so far.  Many things go with lyme, bartonella, ehrlichia, mycoplasma

and many more co-infections can be responsible for many cfs/fm symptoms.   There

is no such thing as a clean tick.  Even if you don't remember a tick bite your

symptoms alone can indicate lyme or one of the other infections.  You have to

treat everything at one time, lyme, yeast, parasites and worms etc. in the gut. 

They a ll pass around their stuff. You need to find a lyme literate doctor, even

if you have to travel.  Going to one who doesn't understand it or won't treat

properly is just a waste of time and money. I think the public health alert has

a list of doctors.  Or check with your local state lyme support group.

Re: Severe pain in ME/CFS.

My opinion is:

Concerning the Zopiclone; I think this is known as Lunesta; but I may

be wrong; Lunesta is a Gaba reuptake inhibitor;

Gaba is an amino acid;

Gaba is known as the Calming chemical; so sounds like a winner to me.-

(Gaba is related to Vitamin B6 and B6 is correlated with restful

sleep); I would not do the Carbamazepine; too many side effects.

You could do some Gaba supplements with Niacin and Inositol though. A.

(Many prescriptions are modeled after botanicals or nutrients... )--

In , " dtgreene2003 "

<dtgreene2003@ ...> wrote:

>

> I am in the same boat, w/ severe head pain , neuropathic pain and

> skin pain since a flare in 2005. The pain has left me bedridden

and

> unable to sit up except for a few minutes here or there.

> And I have tried most of the things on your list as well -- all to

no

> avail, as well.

> At one point my GP told me not to bother going to the ER for severe

> pain flare ups anymore because they could do nothing for me there.

> Morphine, Demerol etc. -- nothing would even touch the pain.

>

> I am on a daily mix of Oxycontin, Percocet and Neurontin but it

does

> very little.

>

> However, after 3 years, I am getting somewhat better. I don't know

> why... Time? Prayer? Meds? Vitamins and Supplements? Immunopro?

> Diet? Who knows.

>

> I do take serrapeptease as this person suggested. I do think it

> works a little. But not enough and not for very long. And

> increasing the dose actually made the pain worse. But the drug

that

> provides the most pain relief is Zopiclone. I found this out by

> accident. It is actually a sleep med. After I take it I feel less

> pain. It was the only thing that kept me sane over the past three

> years -- knowing that at the end of the day I would get to take a

> Zopiclone and would then have a few hours of partial relief.

Enough

> relief to be able to fall asleep. No doctor could explain why it

> acted as a painkiller, however. But it does. Other sleep meds

> didn't but Zopiclone did.

>

> Someone here once posted an article on carbamazepine. I am

> considering trying it for pain and sound/light sensitivity issues.

> Here's the link of the study:

> http://neuro. psychiatryonline .org/cgi/ reprint/11/ 1/97.pdf

>

> And if you ever discover something that helps, for gosh sakes let

us

> know, too... God bless that poor woman. She is in my prayers.

>

> -Dani

>

>

> >

> > Hi Blake,

> >

> > Have you considered taurine or serrapeptase?

> >

> > Can she be reacting to something she eats or drinks?

> >

> > In the past I could go from no pain at all to horrible pains in

20

> minutes

> > time if I ate something wrong.

> >

> > Just my 2 cents.

> >

> > All the best,

> > Yannic

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

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[Guest guest]

I understand Gaba is a non essential amino acid safe in any amounts !

Twin Lab has a formula called Gaba Plus with Niacinamide and Inositol.

I just found out Thiamne Vitamn B1 will help your circulation

prob.'s; i guess my point is: i would continue with the Lunesta.

If you are on the Zopiclone Lunesata; i don't think you need extra

Gaba; I would say you could use the Vitamn B-Complex which has Niacin.

Beleieve this or not; Carbamazepine is also a Gaba reuptake inhibitor.

I would not add any extra Gaba but would had B's Thiamine and Niacin.

Did you say you have skin pain? this is a known Deficiency of Niacin.

thiamine is Vitamin B1 and Niacin is Vitamn B3 also called Niacinamide

I was going to ask you; are you taking B-Complex of any type or form?-

[Guest guest]

Concerning your skin pain; what do you exactly mean/ do you have a

rash; peeling; scales; dark spots; rough skin; or tingling pains?

All of the aforemetnioned are singn of a Niacin Vitamin B3 Deficeincy.

You may need the Vitamin B3 Niacin or Niacinamide;

Naicin B3 makes you flush which helps circulation to the skin;

Niacinamide B3 does not make you flush; both are essential B-vitamins.

Niacin will improve your cirulation; I would do the Niacinamide.

You can buy Niacinamdie almost any store or on line;TwinLab or Solgar.

I would think you might get Thaimine HCI Vit. B1 also;poss. B6

If you get the vitamin B1;B3 and B6; you won't need extra Gaba. Anne.-

- In , " dtgreene2003 "

<dtgreene2003@...> wrote:

>

> Hey thanks for this!!! Zopiclone is a Gaba reuptake inhibitor --

OK,

> so could one try the Gaba supplements, Niacin and Inositol along

with

> the Zopiclone too? Or is it a case of choose one or the other?

>

> And the lady is on Gabapentin (Neurontin), too (as am I) and of

> course that has an effect on the body's Gaba, too. But not sure

what

> its action is. Is it safe to take Gaba supplements when you are on

> Gabapentin? And zopiclone together? All three? Whew -- I need

> a " Gaba 101 " here. Anyone care to explain?

>

>

> > >

> > > I am in the same boat, w/ severe head pain , neuropathic pain

and

> > > skin pain since a flare in 2005. The pain has left me

bedridden

> > and

> > > unable to sit up except for a few minutes here or there. rse.

> But the drug

> > that

> > > provides the most pain relief is Zopiclone. I found this out

by

> > > accident. It is actually a sleep med. After I take it I feel

> less

> > > pain. It was the only thing that kept me sane over the past

three

> > > years -- knowing that at the end of the day I would get to take

a

> > > Zopiclone and would then have a few hours of partial relief.

> > Enough

> > > relief to be able to fall asleep. No doctor could explain why

it

> > > acted as a painkiller, however. But it does. Other sleep meds

> > > didn't but Zopiclone did.

> > >

> > > Someone here once posted an article on carbamazepine. I am

> > > considering trying it for pain and sound/light sensitivity

> issues.

> > > Here's the link of the study:

> > > http://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/reprint/11/1/97.pdf

> > >

> > > > > -Dani

> > >

> > > ---> > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I understand Gaba is a non essential amino acid safe in any amounts !

>

Sorry, but that's not true. Just like any substance -- even WATER -- too much

gaba can

cause headaches, a 'hives' type of reaction, and actually increase anxiety.

I guess I would suggest starting low -- 100mgs or even less, and go up from

there if

necessary.

" Now " also makes a product w/gaba called " True Calm " .

Just my two cents!

d.

[Guest guest]

I'd agree with being cautious. Fraction of capsule of gaba (less

than 100mg) has caused me severe, 'hold-you-head-in-regret' type head

pain. I tried smaller amounts of different brands and none was a

bonus.

Jacqui

> >

> > I understand Gaba is a non essential amino acid safe in any

amounts !

> >

>

> Sorry, but that's not true. Just like any substance -- even WATER -

- too much gaba can

> cause headaches, a 'hives' type of reaction, and actually increase

anxiety.

>

> I guess I would suggest starting low -- 100mgs or even less, and go

up from there if

> necessary.

>

> " Now " also makes a product w/gaba called " True Calm " .

>

> Just my two cents!

>

> d.

>

[Guest guest]

What I mean by safe is " not dangerous; but your're right; any

substnce can be too much;

but then again too little of an essential nutrent can be alot worse!--

- In , " kdrbrill " <kdrbrill@...>

wrote:

>

>

> >

> > I understand Gaba is a non essential amino acid safe in any

amounts !

> >

>

> Sorry, but that's not true. Just like any substance -- even WATER -

- too much gaba can

> cause headaches, a 'hives' type of reaction, and actually increase

anxiety.

>

> I guess I would suggest starting low -- 100mgs or even less, and go

up from there if

> necessary.

>

> " Now " also makes a product w/gaba called " True Calm " .

>

> Just my two cents!

>

> d.

>

[Guest guest]

There are only threee truly unsafe Nutrtients I have heard or read of:

a. Iron Supplements are by far the most dangerous supplement OTC.

b. Synthetic Vitamin A in high amounts is very risky and

prescription Vitamin A is not recommended unless urgent.

c. Hi Dose Zinc is the worst supplement I have ever taken personally;

the Zinc upset my stomach and gave me wicked cramps like i ate glass;-

IRON IS SO DANGEROUS FOR KIDS CAUSE THEY COAT IRON tabs WITH

CHOCOLATE: kids think Iron tablets are candy; they get very very ill.

Iron is by far the the most dangerous supplement to have in the house

UNLESS one is an adult and has Anemia; which is low iron levels.

Viruses and Germs actually thrive and live off Iron; strange as it is-

Natural Iron can be found in Spinach and Unsulphered Molasses. Anne

ps Vitamin C helps with the absorption of natural iron from foods. A.-

In , " mothernaturerule "

<anne_white53@...> wrote:

>

> What I mean by safe is " not dangerous; but your're right; any

> substnce can be too much;

>

> but then again too little of an essential nutrent can be alot

worse!--

> - In , " kdrbrill " <kdrbrill@>

> wrote:

> >

> >

> > >

> > > I understand Gaba is a non essential amino acid safe in any

> amounts !

> > >

> >

> > Sorry, but that's not true. Just like any substance -- even

WATER -

> - too much gaba can

> > cause headaches, a 'hives' type of reaction, and actually

increase

> anxiety.

> >

> > I guess I would suggest starting low -- 100mgs or even less, and

go

> up from there if

> > necessary.

> >

> > " Now " also makes a product w/gaba called " True Calm " .

> >

> > Just my two cents!

> >

> > d.

> >

>