RE: Re: Neurofeedback cured my CFS mental symptoms

[Guest guest]

Could someone explain how NF works?I had been wondering this for some time.

I am wonder how can it work if it is not know which parts of the brain is

malfunctioning and what the root brain problem is?

thanks a lot

nil

Re: Neurofeedback cured my CFS mental symptoms

>I went to a neurofeedback provider upon the suggestion of an alternative MD

>I was seeing

> at the time. The NF provider was supposed to " help me with sleep " , and I

> think the MD

> thought I was fatigued because of not sleeping well. (This was before I

> was dx with CFS). I

> was upfront about my medical situation to the extent I knew about it at

> the time, and

> despite this the NF provider insisted that NF had no side effects and

> can't cause harm. He

[Guest guest]

Hi!

I did not do biofeedback which is much more simple, I did brain biofeedback also

called neurofeedback. I was treated on the flexis system for three years. I have

my own machine for brain biofeedback called the Capscan which I used on myself

everyday to further my treatment.

I am now well, and free of depression, anxiety and panic attacks. Don't get me

wrong, I get down sometimes about being ill, just like any other human being

would about being sick for 17 years, but with support and love the mood goes

away very quickly.

The neurofeedback is the best treatment that I ever got for my mental problems.

It beats individual psychotherary, group therapy, medication etc. by a long,

long mile.

Mira

@...: kim.doll70@...: Thu, 26 Jun

2008 17:13:07 +0000Subject: Re: Neurofeedback cured my CFS

mental symptoms

hey miraI read that book too, it inspired me to go to canada and do the

flexybiofeedback pgm at myosymmetries for a few months. it helped some butwasnt

powerful enough by itself for pain I decided a year or twolater. what

biofeedback pgm did you do?>> > Dear Group, > > I am glad that a protein

found on HHV-6 virus is believed to becausing the mental problems that so many

of us have along the courseof our illnesses, however what is the implication

towards a cure forour conditions or at least a relief from those symptoms? > > I

was shot in the eye with a BB gun more than 17 years ago; my eyewas saved after

lengthy treatment and a long and serious operation.After all that I was never

the same. I had fatigue, constant sinusinfections and a myriad of other physical

symptoms which would taketoo long to describe. I would like to say that along

the way Ideveloped depression, panic attacks, fears that came out of nowhere,and

trouble sleeping. Most of my mental symptoms were medicated and Iended up taking

over 20 pills a day. By chance I found an old clippingabout a book on brain

biofeedback also called neurofeedback entitled " A Symphony in the Brain " . I do

not remember the author right now. Iwas fascinated by the fact that the author

was cured... yes, cured ofhis CFS by using neurofeedback.> > I was in treatment

for about three years, but I had other problemsthat predated my being shot in

the eye with a BB gun. What isimportant to mention here is that my depression,

panic attacks andother mental problems which required 80 mg of prozac a day

along withother pills are GONE for Good. > I still have the CFS symptoms, but at

least the ones that werebothering my brain are no longer with me and will never

come back. > > If anyone is interested in learning more about this kind

oftreatment which would free people from visits to the psychiatrist,please write

me back. There are people who are cured of their CFSusing neurofeedback, I was

not, but with me the cure was partial, andit feels good not to have all those

mental symptoms. > Mira> > > @...: capth2o@...: Thu, 26 Jun

2008 09:03:51+0000Subject: Ding Dong the Witch is Dead!> > >

> > Tom Hennessy's first impressions of the HHV-6 Foundation's

SatelliteConference in Baltimore are now posted on the NEW RESCINDwebsite.Since

most newsletters will probably be geared toward theresearch itself, we decided

to do a " fly on the wall perspective " ofthe conference.We'll have more musings

on the conference as we areable.And as always, if you haven't signed the M.E.

Petition, please doso!Jerryhttp://www.rescindinc.org/ By the way, Co-Cure

refused topublish this post because our WEBSITE is inflamitory! > > > > > > >

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[Guest guest]

Dear ,

You were treated by somebody who did not know what they were doing and that is

why your symptoms got worse. If you were treated by a trained therapist the

progress would be impressive and you would be feeling much better. I remember

how week after week I was a slow but steady relief from the symptoms until they

were all gone for good.

My therapist now lives in Florida and if someone is interested in treatment with

the Flexys system he could do it or he could point people to where they could

find someone who is well trained.

Mira

@...: arosenbl0@...: Fri, 27 Jun

2008 02:00:55 +0000Subject: Re: Neurofeedback cured my CFS

mental symptoms

I did Neurofeedback too, and it made my CFS conginitive symptoms a lot worse. I

think finding honest people who have enough experience to work with problems

other than ADD/ADHD with neurofeedback is difficult. I would be very cautious

here because " CFS " really means a lot of different thing to different people.

You could end up making yourself a lot worse with nowhere to turn for help, like

I did... I have no yet found a provider to fix the problems cause by the

neurofeedback, and I have heard a lot of ridiculous things from many of

them.>> > Dear Group, > > I am glad that a protein found on

HHV-6 virus is believed to be causing the mental problems that so many of us

have along the course of our illnesses, however what is the implication towards

a cure for our conditions or at least a relief from those symptoms? > > I was

shot in the eye with a BB gun more than 17 years ago; my eye was saved after

lengthy treatment and a long and serious operation. After all that I was never

the same. I had fatigue, constant sinus infections and a myriad of other

physical symptoms which would take too long to describe. I would like to say

that along the way I developed depression, panic attacks, fears that came out of

nowhere, and trouble sleeping. Most of my mental symptoms were medicated and I

ended up taking over 20 pills a day. By chance I found an old clipping about a

book on brain biofeedback also called neurofeedback entitled " A Symphony in the

Brain " . I do not remember the author right now. I was fascinated by the fact

that the author was cured... yes, cured of his CFS by using neurofeedback.> > I

was in treatment for about three years, but I had other problems that predated

my being shot in the eye with a BB gun. What is important to mention here is

that my depression, panic attacks and other mental problems which required 80 mg

of prozac a day along with other pills are GONE for Good. > I still have the CFS

symptoms, but at least the ones that were bothering my brain are no longer with

me and will never come back. > > If anyone is interested in learning more about

this kind of treatment which would free people from visits to the psychiatrist,

please write me back. There are people who are cured of their CFS using

neurofeedback, I was not, but with me the cure was partial, and it feels good

not to have all those mental symptoms. > Mira> > > @...:

capth2o@...: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:03:51 +0000Subject: Ding

Dong the Witch is Dead!> > > > > Tom Hennessy's first impressions of the HHV-6

Foundation's Satellite Conference in Baltimore are now posted on the NEW RESCIND

website.Since most newsletters will probably be geared toward the research

itself, we decided to do a " fly on the wall perspective " of the conference.We'll

have more musings on the conference as we are able.And as always, if you haven't

signed the M.E. Petition, please do so!Jerryhttp://www.rescindinc.org/ By the

way, Co-Cure refused to publish this post because our WEBSITE is inflamitory! >

> > > > > > __________________________________________________________> News,

entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now!>

http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx> > [Non-text portions of this message have

been removed]>

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[Guest guest]

Dear Group,

I agree that some people go to the wrong therapist and in addition are treated

on the wrong system and that the results can be horrifying. I agree that a lot

can go wrong when a badly trained person starts to fiddle with the chemistry and

electricity of a brain, but with the right treatment, the results are amazing

and they last a lifetime.

Please, those of you who are open to new ways of being treated, go to your local

library, and probably though interlibrary loans, get the book " A Symphony in the

Brain " by Jim Robbins. It is available in paperback online and it must be cheap

about $10 or less. It goes into the whole history of how neurofeedback was

created and explains how each researcher added on his or her contribution to the

creation of the therapy. It has the stories of people who used it on

themselves, or on family members to cure, with time and with the right

therapist, conditions that conventional medicine says are incurable and should

be medicated for a lifetime.

If any of you do not believe me. Fine. I am doing very well mentally. I was not

lucky enough for it to cure my CFS completely, probably because I was ill for so

long when I started the therapy, or because this was not the right way for me to

rebuild an immune system, but it took care of all of my mental problems

associated with the CFS. There are people who are cured of CFS, yes, cured, by

this therapy. The author Jim Robbins was cured completely...and that is why he

wrote the book on the history of the creation of neurofeedback.

I moved back to my native Poland two years ago. I now live in a village near

Warsaw and on these summer evenings I sit under my friend's apple tree and with

her relatives I talk for hours. I have friends, I go out, I read, I watch

television, I go out to the theater or the movies in Warsaw, where I must travel

by train for one hour. I have my brain back for good!

I became a member of the French Institute in Warsaw and I am again reading books

in French. If the fatigue goes away I am going to be reading in Italian( ten

years of classes on and off) and go back to learning German (five years of

classes on and off)

I am working on my immune system with a homeopath. I know that once that is

fixed I am going to be a healthy woman again and I will be able to work and go

back to graduate school.

Just to summarize, I have my brain back and now I am working to get my body

back. Please wish me luck and if anyone is interested in my progress on

homeopathy, I would be willing to write about that as well.

Mira

@...: mrl@...: Fri, 27 Jun

2008 13:54:07 +0000Subject: Re: Neurofeedback cured my CFS

mental symptoms

From Corydon Hammond, an expert in

NF:biofeedback/message/28055Re:

[biofeedback] Re: Negative effects of NF training An off the top of the head

quick list of reported negative effects fromtraining: seizures; mental fogginess

and decreased concentration; depression; anxiety; insomnia; increased

spasticity; increased OCDbehavior; irritability and increased anger; increased

ruminativeness; increased somatic symptoms; increased physical pain; increased

headaches or migraines.

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Dear Group,

I agree that some people go to the wrong therapist and in addition are treated

on the wrong system and that the results can be horrifying. I agree that a lot

can go wrong when a badly trained person starts to fiddle with the chemistry and

electricity of a brain, but with the right treatment, the results are amazing

and they last a lifetime.

Please, those of you who are open to new ways of being treated, go to your local

library, and probably though interlibrary loans, get the book " A Symphony in the

Brain " by Jim Robbins. It is available in paperback online and it must be cheap

about $10 or less. It goes into the whole history of how neurofeedback was

created and explains how each researcher added on his or her contribution to the

creation of the therapy. It has the stories of people who used it on

themselves, or on family members to cure, with time and with the right

therapist, conditions that conventional medicine says are incurable and should

be medicated for a lifetime.

If any of you do not believe me. Fine. I am doing very well mentally. I was not

lucky enough for it to cure my CFS completely, probably because I was ill for so

long when I started the therapy, or because this was not the right way for me to

rebuild an immune system, but it took care of all of my mental problems

associated with the CFS. There are people who are cured of CFS, yes, cured, by

this therapy. The author Jim Robbins was cured completely...and that is why he

wrote the book on the history of the creation of neurofeedback.

I moved back to my native Poland two years ago. I now live in a village near

Warsaw and on these summer evenings I sit under my friend's apple tree and with

her relatives I talk for hours. I have friends, I go out, I read, I watch

television, I go out to the theater or the movies in Warsaw, where I must travel

by train for one hour. I have my brain back for good!

I became a member of the French Institute in Warsaw and I am again reading books

in French. If the fatigue goes away I am going to be reading in Italian( ten

years of classes on and off) and go back to learning German (five years of

classes on and off)

I am working on my immune system with a homeopath. I know that once that is

fixed I am going to be a healthy woman again and I will be able to work and go

back to graduate school.

Just to summarize, I have my brain back and now I am working to get my body

back. Please wish me luck and if anyone is interested in my progress on

homeopathy, I would be willing to write about that as well.

Mira

@...: mrl@...: Fri, 27 Jun

2008 13:54:07 +0000Subject: Re: Neurofeedback cured my CFS

mental symptoms

From Corydon Hammond, an expert in

NF:biofeedback/message/28055Re:

[biofeedback] Re: Negative effects of NF training An off the top of the head

quick list of reported negative effects fromtraining: seizures; mental fogginess

and decreased concentration; depression; anxiety; insomnia; increased

spasticity; increased OCDbehavior; irritability and increased anger; increased

ruminativeness; increased somatic symptoms; increased physical pain; increased

headaches or migraines.

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Dear Kim,

One of the drawbacks of neurofeedback can be its price. What I did is that I

told my therapist what my financial situation was and he gave me a deep discount

on what the usually charged. I think that some people get a therapist who is

also a psychologist, and who tells the insurance company that they are getting

talk therapy or some other treatment that is covered by insurance.

If you were treated on the flexys system and the therapist was well trained,

then nothing was harmed. The system works in a way that even after treatment

stops the brain is still fixing itself as if the process of molding itself back

into health outlasts the last sessions for weeks.

I am mentally well, although as I wrote in one my last postings, I still have

low times especially when my immune system is down. What is good though, is that

I can call a friend and talk about, or I talk to my fiance who also has CFS and

I my mood goes back up with his support. Before the treatment one could talk to

me for hours and I still was depressed. And what finally made a difference was

an ever increasing dose of Prozac, up to 80 mg a day, along with other

medications mostly for brain symptoms. I remember the worse year of my illness

the bill that my former husband's union had to pay for my medication was $9800

for a 12 month period. Yes, being free of medications is wonderful.

It started to rain heavily here in my village and I had to go out to get my car

into the alluminum garage. It was way after the sun was down; the car was parked

outside my gate. I looked from my old Volvo and into one of the windows and the

lamp was on where I usually sit at my desk. I drove up my little driveway and

into the garage; it was raining and the rain bounced noisily on the roof and the

sides of the garage. As I was walking back with my flashlight to close the gate

and lock it, I realised that my life was good and that I was at peace after many

years of suffering.

Mira

@...: kim.doll70@...: Fri, 27 Jun

2008 20:20:47 +0000Subject: Re: Neurofeedback cured my CFS

mental symptoms

Hey mirathanks for posting, I was getting a little freaked out about all the

danger of biofeedback posted. I also did flexy in 2000, did it in canada because

it was cheaper at the time than living in states and doing it, the dollar was

different then.Anyway it was somewhat helpful, I am wondering now if going to

the other guy in the states when I got back was amistake because he didnt use

the flexy, I dont know what the system was but I did get worse that year

although i didnt directly associate it to the biofeedback as symptoms always wax

and wane and I am not always sure what causes what. Geez, I hope I didnt

permanently alter something negatively, my sleep and chemical sensitivity have

gotten worse since then but there are other things that could explain that and

then I responded well to a med after that so who knows.Thanks for all your info

and good luck to you, medfree is always preferrable if possible. I liked in that

book how they showed that someone exposed to jet fuel could actually handle the

toxicity better with biofeedback and/or meditation or something like that, read

it 8 years ago but that stood out in my mind and impressed me about the

potential power of the mind.>> > Dear Group,> > I agree that some people go

to the wrong therapist and in addition are treated on the wrong system and that

the results can be horrifying. I agree that a lot can go wrong when a badly

trained person starts to fiddle with the chemistry and electricity of a brain,

but with the right treatment, the results are amazing and they last a lifetime.

> > Please, those of you who are open to new ways of being treated, go to your

local library, and probably though interlibrary loans, get the book " A Symphony

in the Brain " by Jim Robbins. It is available in paperback online and it must be

cheap about $10 or less. It goes into the whole history of how neurofeedback was

created and explains how each researcher added on his or her contribution to the

creation of the therapy. It has the stories of people who used it on themselves,

or on family members to cure, with time and with the right therapist, conditions

that conventional medicine says are incurable and should be medicated for a

lifetime. > > If any of you do not believe me. Fine. I am doing very well

mentally. I was not lucky enough for it to cure my CFS completely, probably

because I was ill for so long when I started the therapy, or because this was

not the right way for me to rebuild an immune system, but it took care of all of

my mental problems associated with the CFS. There are people who are cured of

CFS, yes, cured, by this therapy. The author Jim Robbins was cured

completely...and that is why he wrote the book on the history of the creation of

neurofeedback.> > I moved back to my native Poland two years ago. I now live in

a village near Warsaw and on these summer evenings I sit under my friend's apple

tree and with her relatives I talk for hours. I have friends, I go out, I read,

I watch television, I go out to the theater or the movies in Warsaw, where I

must travel by train for one hour. I have my brain back for good! > > I became a

member of the French Institute in Warsaw and I am again reading books in French.

If the fatigue goes away I am going to be reading in Italian( ten years of

classes on and off) and go back to learning German (five years of classes on and

off)> > I am working on my immune system with a homeopath. I know that once that

is fixed I am going to be a healthy woman again and I will be able to work and

go back to graduate school. > > Just to summarize, I have my brain back and now

I am working to get my body back. Please wish me luck and if anyone is

interested in my progress on homeopathy, I would be willing to write about that

as well.> > Mira> > > @...: mrl@...: Fri, 27 Jun 2008

13:54:07 +0000Subject: Re: Neurofeedback cured my CFS mental

symptoms> > > > > From Corydon Hammond, an expert in

NF:biofeedback/message/28055Re:

[biofeedback] Re: Negative effects of NF training An off the top of the head

quick list of reported negative effects fromtraining: seizures; mental fogginess

and decreased concentration; depression; anxiety; insomnia; increased

spasticity; increased OCDbehavior; irritability and increased anger; increased

ruminativeness; increased somatic symptoms; increased physical pain; increased

headaches or migraines. > > > > > > >

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[Guest guest]

Dear and Group,

I am so tired so please forgive me if I do not make my answer long and if I

don't use persuasive arguments right now. I just spent five hours at an animal

shelter walking dogs and helping to take care of a abused dog, brought in by a

drunken owner, whose hair was so matted that the poor dog could not go to the

bathroom.

You write that if one has heavy metals or an infection or Lyme disease than the

neurofeedback will not work. That is just not so. What the neurofeedback will do

if you are lucky enough for it reset your mind and therefore reset your immune

system, is that you will be well after a course of treatment. That did not

happen to me, because my immune system is still weak; I still have human herpes

4, 5 and 6 virus infections in my body. What the neurofeedback did do is it made

my brain so well tuned that it resists the symptoms that happen in the brain

from these viruses. By the way, I have mycoplasma, candida and God only knows

what else, but they now affect me below the head. Well, I should say not the

brain, because my sinuses are still a mess and that is one of the major centers

of infection. I have a heavy viral and bacterial load, but my brain is

unaffected by it to a large extent because now it pushes the illness away with

its new strength. And that has made a huge difference in how I feel.

Please at some points read the book that I recommended " A Symphony in the Brain "

by Jim Robbins.

If anyone would like to have my therapist's email address, I will give to you by

backchannel.

Mira

Mira

@...: arosenbl0@...: Fri, 27 Jun

2008 21:43:33 +0000Subject: Re: Neurofeedback cured my CFS

mental symptoms

Hi Mira,I am really glad you had the good fortune to work with a NF practitioner

that helped you. I agree that it seems like a powerful treatment, and in that

you can find someone who is honest and " knows what they are doing " they probably

can help you. I had a very hard time finding such a person. If you have the name

of such a person please email me and let me know, as at some point I might need

to have someone undo the bad NF training I had. Like any treatment, there are

risks, and since it is working with your brain, the same symptoms that can

improve, can also be made worse. If you can find someone to fix those problems,

thats great. If you can't, you are a lot worse off than you were. And unlike a

drug (and I don't like drugs either), you can't just stop taking it and make the

side effects go away...The point is, unfortunately, CFS is now such a broad

definition that encompasses many different illnesses. You may have responded

well to neurofeedback, and it sounds like you did. But another person with CFS

might not respond as expected to something like neurofeedback because their

symptoms are ultimately caused by an infection or a toxin. You can't get rid of

brain symtoms caused heavy metals or toxic mold, and you can't treat lyme

disease with neurofeedback. We migh both be diagnosed with CFS, but actually

have a very different illness...anyways, I am interested in talking to the

person you worked with, please email me backchannelthanks!>> > Dear Group, > > I am glad that a protein found on

HHV-6 virus is believed to be causing the mental problems that so many of us

have along the course of our illnesses, however what is the implication towards

a cure for our conditions or at least a relief from those symptoms? > > I was

shot in the eye with a BB gun more than 17 years ago; my eye was saved after

lengthy treatment and a long and serious operation. After all that I was never

the same. I had fatigue, constant sinus infections and a myriad of other

physical symptoms which would take too long to describe. I would like to say

that along the way I developed depression, panic attacks, fears that came out of

nowhere, and trouble sleeping. Most of my mental symptoms were medicated and I

ended up taking over 20 pills a day. By chance I found an old clipping about a

book on brain biofeedback also called neurofeedback entitled " A Symphony in the

Brain " . I do not remember the author right now. I was fascinated by the fact

that the author was cured... yes, cured of his CFS by using neurofeedback.> > I

was in treatment for about three years, but I had other problems that predated

my being shot in the eye with a BB gun. What is important to mention here is

that my depression, panic attacks and other mental problems which required 80 mg

of prozac a day along with other pills are GONE for Good. > I still have the CFS

symptoms, but at least the ones that were bothering my brain are no longer with

me and will never come back. > > If anyone is interested in learning more about

this kind of treatment which would free people from visits to the psychiatrist,

please write me back. There are people who are cured of their CFS using

neurofeedback, I was not, but with me the cure was partial, and it feels good

not to have all those mental symptoms. > Mira> > > @:

capth2o@: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:03:51 +0000Subject: Ding Dong

the Witch is Dead!> > > > > Tom Hennessy's first impressions of the HHV-6

Foundation's Satellite Conference in Baltimore are now posted on the NEW RESCIND

website.Since most newsletters will probably be geared toward the research

itself, we decided to do a " fly on the wall perspective " of the conference.We'll

have more musings on the conference as we are able.And as always, if you haven't

signed the M.E. Petition, please do so!Jerryhttp://www.rescindinc.org/ By the

way, Co-Cure refused to publish this post because our WEBSITE is inflamitory! >

> > > > > > __________________________________________________________> News,

entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now!>

http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx> > [Non-text portions of this message have

been removed]> > > > > > > >

__________________________________________________________> Invite your mail

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[Guest guest]

Hi Mira

Could you please mention little about how it is done?also should

practitioner know about CFS? I mean is there specific type of therapy for

each illness?

thanks

nil

RE: Re: Neurofeedback cured my CFS mental

symptoms

>

> Dear and Group,

>

> I am so tired so please forgive me if I do not make my answer long and if

> I don't use persuasive arguments right now. I just spent five hours at an

> animal shelter walking dogs and helping to take care of a abused dog,

> brought in by a drunken owner, whose hair was so matted that the poor dog

> could not go to the bathroom.

>

[Guest guest]

Congratulations Mira and thanks for sharing.

I would note that studies have shown that neurofeedback, meditation and other

techniques, if done rigorously have been shown to actually reset the activity of

the brain particularly the autonomic nervous system. Since an overactive

sympathetic nervous system can result in racing heart, shallow breathing, tensed

muscles, constricted gut as well as immune dysfunction (inflammatory state) I

would think that rebalancing the ANS could help anyone. It should certainly help

with toxic overload (inflammation), opportunistic pathogens, etc.

Cort

From: Nil <yildiz22@...>

Subject: Re: Re: Neurofeedback cured my CFS mental symptoms

Date: Saturday, June 28, 2008, 3:22 PM

Hi Mira

Could you please mention little about how it is done?also should

practitioner know about CFS? I mean is there specific type of therapy for

each illness?

thanks

nil

RE: Re: Neurofeedback cured my CFS mental

symptoms

>

> Dear and Group,

>

> I am so tired so please forgive me if I do not make my answer long and if

> I don't use persuasive arguments right now. I just spent five hours at an

> animal shelter walking dogs and helping to take care of a abused dog,

> brought in by a drunken owner, whose hair was so matted that the poor dog

> could not go to the bathroom.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Cort,

Thanks for writing back to my message and also for congratulating me. I have to

tell that it took three years to get to this point, but it was worth it. Most

people do not take that long to reset their brains. I had other problems from

childhood that stood in the way, but now the CFS symptoms and the childhood

issues are gone.

I have to tell you that neurofeedback is not like meditation. I could have

meditated for 20 years, every day for several hours and it would not have helped

me. I would still have the depression, panic attacks, and the fears that come

with CFS. Meditation does not work to precisely bring back each brain wave on

each of the 21 points on our heads back to a good working order. With

neurofeedback on the flexys system we are actually reaching the individual brain

wave and gently pushing it back to health. The whole process takes time and it

has to be done with great precision to get the right results; now, after reading

some of the posts I am more amazed by the science behind the therapy then while

I was being treated.

I will never forget the time, that I had to see a psychiatrist on the Upper West

Side of Manhattan, who told me that once you had a second major episode of

depression, you would have to be on medication for the rest of your life.

Something told me inside myself that this was the wrong approach and I was

right. I am sure that the doctor would not believe that this therapy worked, and

he would say to me that the depression would be back at some point in my life.

That is how he was trained, and like most doctors he likes to conform to the

standard way of thinking about medicine. In the meantime, we the patients are

still sick and we are still popping all those pills to somewhat control our

symptoms. We can't work and we can't have children and we can't study; we become

professional patients, which becomes our specialty in life.

For me at least half of the CFS problem is gone, now I am working on the next

half, my immune system with a homeopath. The woman who is my doctor is

pediatrician who decided years ago to try a different approach to treating her

patients. If anyone is interested, I would write about my experiences on this

path. Would it not be wonderful if she got me out of the CFS completely?

Mira

@...: cortttt@...: Sun, 29 Jun

2008 18:14:35 -0700Subject: Re: Re: Neurofeedback cured my

CFS mental symptoms

Congratulations Mira and thanks for sharing. I would note that studies have

shown that neurofeedback, meditation and other techniques, if done rigorously

have been shown to actually reset the activity of the brain particularly the

autonomic nervous system. Since an overactive sympathetic nervous system can

result in racing heart, shallow breathing, tensed muscles, constricted gut as

well as immune dysfunction (inflammatory state) I would think that rebalancing

the ANS could help anyone. It should certainly help with toxic overload

(inflammation), opportunistic pathogens, etc. CortFrom: Nil <yildiz22@...>Subject: Re:

Re: Neurofeedback cured my CFS mental symptomsTo:

@...: Saturday, June 28, 2008, 3:22 PMHi

MiraCould you please mention little about how it is done?also should

practitioner know about CFS? I mean is there specific type of therapy for each

illness?thanksnil RE: Re: Neurofeedback

cured my CFS mental symptoms>> Dear and Group,>> I am so tired so please

forgive me if I do not make my answer long and if > I don't use persuasive

arguments right now. I just spent five hours at an > animal shelter walking dogs

and helping to take care of a abused dog, > brought in by a drunken owner, whose

hair was so matted that the poor dog > could not go to the bathroom.> [Non-text

portions of this message have been removed]

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[Guest guest]

hi Nil,

they do an eeg and a qualitative eeg first. this shows them which parts of

the brain are not acting normally and in what ways they are not normal.

reading this post has been a real eye-opener. if I ever get NF again, I

will indeed proceed very carefully. I think I was lucky in having very

skilled practitioners. Taliesen

On 6/27/08, Nil <yildiz22@...> wrote:

>

> Could someone explain how NF works?I had been wondering this for some

> time.

> I am wonder how can it work if it is not know which parts of the brain is

> malfunctioning and what the root brain problem is?

> thanks a lot

> nil

> Re: Neurofeedback cured my CFS mental symptoms

>

> >I went to a neurofeedback provider upon the suggestion of an alternative

> MD

> >I was seeing

> > at the time. The NF provider was supposed to " help me with sleep " , and I

> > think the MD

> > thought I was fatigued because of not sleeping well. (This was before I

> > was dx with CFS). I

> > was upfront about my medical situation to the extent I knew about it at

> > the time, and

> > despite this the NF provider insisted that NF had no side effects and

> > can't cause harm. He

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks. I would have to ask you though how you know meditation and other

techniques - which are also able to reset nervous system functioning - causing

less anxiety, mind fog, etc. as well as increased relaxation, reduced heart

rate, slowed breath, reduced blood pressure, etc. - would not have helped you?

I can understand that neurofeedback may be a more precise tool but I find your

statement that you could have done meditation for 20 years and it would have had

no effect rather incredible actually. How do you know?

Check out the below study which reviewed (positively) almost 30 studies on the

effects of meditation on anxiety

Manzoni GM, Pagnini F, Castelnuovo G, Molinari E.Relaxation training for

anxiety: a ten-years systematic review with meta-analysis.BMC Psychiatry. 2008

Jun 2;8:41.

From: Nil <yildiz22gmail (DOT) com>Subject: Re:

Re: Neurofeedback cured my CFS mental symptomsTo:

Date: Saturday, June 28, 2008, 3:22 PMHi

MiraCould you please mention little about how it is done?also should

practitioner know about CFS? I mean is there specific type of

therapy for each illness?thanksnil- ---- Original Message ----- From: " Mira

Ghoshal " <mirasghoshal@ hotmail.com> <@ groups.

com>Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 1:15 AMSubject: RE: Re:

Neurofeedback cured my CFS mental symptoms>> Dear and Group,>> I am so

tired so please forgive me if I do not make my answer long and if > I don't use

persuasive arguments right now. I just spent five hours at an > animal shelter

walking dogs and helping to take care of a abused dog, > brought in by a drunken

owner, whose hair was so matted that the poor dog > could not go to the

bathroom.>

[Guest guest]

A recent study at the Symposium on Viruses in CFS found that HHV-6 produced

protein was associated with mood disorders in CFS - a viral connection to mood. 

It was not found in CFS patients without mood disorder. Altered mood is very

common in CFS - it has a place, I believe, in this discussion group.

Saying depression is different from CFS does not mean that CFS patients don't

rather commonly suffer from depression.

From: natellite <natellite@...>

Subject: Re: Neurofeedback cured my CFS mental symptoms

Date: Monday, June 30, 2008, 12:27 PM

I hope we can all get back on track again. This group is for

treatments for CFS/ME, NOT depression. Two completely different

illnessess!

> I will never forget the time, that I had to see a psychiatrist on the

Upper West Side of Manhattan, who told me that once you had a second

major episode of depression, you would have to be on medication for the

rest of your life. Something told me inside myself that this was the

wrong approach and I was right. I am sure that the doctor would not

believe that this therapy worked, and he would say to me that the

depression would be back at some point in my life.

> For me at least half of the CFS problem is gone

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Cort,

If you are curious how I know that years of meditation would not have helped

me, I asked my therapist for an explanation. And I did meditation and my CFS

mental problems where still there basically unaffected. If someone had benefit

from meditation in reducing their symptoms that is a huge gift. It would not

have worked me for me because I was too ill to be begin with. I have seen people

who had CFS and were on medication for their mental symtoms, reduce some of

their anxiety with meditation.

By the way meditators were studied in the creation process of neurofeedback.

I am not an expert in neurofeedback, but I know first hand how it has changed my

life. I would recommend it to anybody who has CFS or has unrelated mental

problems to get this kind of treatment.

Mira

@...: cortttt@...: Mon, 30 Jun

2008 17:58:44 -0700Subject: RE: Re: Neurofeedback cured my

CFS mental symptoms

Thanks. I would have to ask you though how you know meditation and other

techniques - which are also able to reset nervous system functioning - causing

less anxiety, mind fog, etc. as well as increased relaxation, reduced heart

rate, slowed breath, reduced blood pressure, etc. - would not have helped you? I

can understand that neurofeedback may be a more precise tool but I find your

statement that you could have done meditation for 20 years and it would have had

no effect rather incredible actually. How do you know?Check out the below study

which reviewed (positively) almost 30 studies on the effects of meditation on

anxiety Manzoni GM, Pagnini F, Castelnuovo G, Molinari E.Relaxation training for

anxiety: a ten-years systematic review with meta-analysis.BMC Psychiatry. 2008

Jun 2;8:41.From: Nil <yildiz22gmail (DOT) com>Subject: Re:

Re: Neurofeedback cured my CFS mental symptomsTo:

Date: Saturday, June 28, 2008, 3:22 PMHi

MiraCould you please mention little about how it is done?also should

practitioner know about CFS? I mean is there specific type oftherapy for each

illness?thanksnil- ---- Original Message ----- From: " Mira Ghoshal "

<mirasghoshal@ hotmail.com> <>Sent:

Sunday, June 29, 2008 1:15 AMSubject: RE: Re: Neurofeedback

cured my CFS mental symptoms>> Dear and Group,>> I am so tired so please

forgive me if I do not make my answer long and if > I don't use persuasive

arguments right now. I just spent five hours at an > animal shelter walking dogs

and helping to take care of a abused dog, > brought in by a drunken owner, whose

hair was so matted that the poor dog > could not go to the bathroom.> [Non-text

portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________

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[Guest guest]

Hi,

My brains syptoms, among which depression was the most severe, were caused by

CFS. I was not diagnosed with CFS at that point. When I wrote about the

psychiatrist, I was relating an episode that pushed me towards finding a way to

treat what was happening to me without the use of standart medicine. It was only

two or three years later that I found out what I had. The route of learning

about CFS was circuitous, but at the age of 39 after over 8 years of going from

doctor to doctor, I found out what I had with the help of my...music history

professor, whose son was just diagnosed. She and I compared the symptoms and

they were uncannily similar. She in turn did not learn what CFS was from a

doctor, she learned from a doctoral student of hers. I called this the chain of

musicians helping each other toward a diagnosis. Eventually I called an CFS

patient association and I found Dr. Enlander in Manhattan who diagnosed me

within a short time.

Mira

@...: natellite@...: Mon, 30 Jun

2008 19:27:46 +0000Subject: Re: Neurofeedback cured my CFS

mental symptoms

I hope we can all get back on track again. This group is for treatments for

CFS/ME, NOT depression. Two completely different illnessess!> I will never

forget the time, that I had to see a psychiatrist on the Upper West Side of

Manhattan, who told me that once you had a second major episode of depression,

you would have to be on medication for the rest of your life. Something told me

inside myself that this was the wrong approach and I was right. I am sure that

the doctor would not believe that this therapy worked, and he would say to me

that the depression would be back at some point in my life. > For me at least

half of the CFS problem is gone>

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[Guest guest]

Dear Kim,

If you still have the book " A Symphony in the Brain " by Jim Robbins, try and

read it again. You will find more information on how we can help ourselves using

neufeedback, then when you read it for the first time. You have more life

experience after eight years and you know more about all kinds of protocols

since I assume that you tried some to get yourself out of the CFS.

As I posted on this a few days ago, my experience was positive. I am much better

mentally, I just wish that I were one of the lucky ones whose CFS resolved

completely.

Sorry for taking so long to write you back.

Mira

@...: kim.doll70@...: Fri, 27 Jun

2008 20:20:47 +0000Subject: Re: Neurofeedback cured my CFS

mental symptoms

Hey mirathanks for posting, I was getting a little freaked out about all the

danger of biofeedback posted. I also did flexy in 2000, did it in canada because

it was cheaper at the time than living in states and doing it, the dollar was

different then.Anyway it was somewhat helpful, I am wondering now if going to

the other guy in the states when I got back was amistake because he didnt use

the flexy, I dont know what the system was but I did get worse that year

although i didnt directly associate it to the biofeedback as symptoms always wax

and wane and I am not always sure what causes what. Geez, I hope I didnt

permanently alter something negatively, my sleep and chemical sensitivity have

gotten worse since then but there are other things that could explain that and

then I responded well to a med after that so who knows.Thanks for all your info

and good luck to you, medfree is always preferrable if possible. I liked in that

book how they showed that someone exposed to jet fuel could actually handle the

toxicity better with biofeedback and/or meditation or something like that, read

it 8 years ago but that stood out in my mind and impressed me about the

potential power of the mind.>> > Dear Group,> > I agree that some people go

to the wrong therapist and in addition are treated on the wrong system and that

the results can be horrifying. I agree that a lot can go wrong when a badly

trained person starts to fiddle with the chemistry and electricity of a brain,

but with the right treatment, the results are amazing and they last a lifetime.

> > Please, those of you who are open to new ways of being treated, go to your

local library, and probably though interlibrary loans, get the book " A Symphony

in the Brain " by Jim Robbins. It is available in paperback online and it must be

cheap about $10 or less. It goes into the whole history of how neurofeedback was

created and explains how each researcher added on his or her contribution to the

creation of the therapy. It has the stories of people who used it on themselves,

or on family members to cure, with time and with the right therapist, conditions

that conventional medicine says are incurable and should be medicated for a

lifetime. > > If any of you do not believe me. Fine. I am doing very well

mentally. I was not lucky enough for it to cure my CFS completely, probably

because I was ill for so long when I started the therapy, or because this was

not the right way for me to rebuild an immune system, but it took care of all of

my mental problems associated with the CFS. There are people who are cured of

CFS, yes, cured, by this therapy. The author Jim Robbins was cured

completely...and that is why he wrote the book on the history of the creation of

neurofeedback.> > I moved back to my native Poland two years ago. I now live in

a village near Warsaw and on these summer evenings I sit under my friend's apple

tree and with her relatives I talk for hours. I have friends, I go out, I read,

I watch television, I go out to the theater or the movies in Warsaw, where I

must travel by train for one hour. I have my brain back for good! > > I became a

member of the French Institute in Warsaw and I am again reading books in French.

If the fatigue goes away I am going to be reading in Italian( ten years of

classes on and off) and go back to learning German (five years of classes on and

off)> > I am working on my immune system with a homeopath. I know that once that

is fixed I am going to be a healthy woman again and I will be able to work and

go back to graduate school. > > Just to summarize, I have my brain back and now

I am working to get my body back. Please wish me luck and if anyone is

interested in my progress on homeopathy, I would be willing to write about that

as well.> > Mira> > > @...: mrl@...: Fri, 27 Jun 2008

13:54:07 +0000Subject: Re: Neurofeedback cured my CFS mental

symptoms> > > > > From Corydon Hammond, an expert in

NF:biofeedback/message/28055Re:

[biofeedback] Re: Negative effects of NF training An off the top of the head

quick list of reported negative effects fromtraining: seizures; mental fogginess

and decreased concentration; depression; anxiety; insomnia; increased

spasticity; increased OCDbehavior; irritability and increased anger; increased

ruminativeness; increased somatic symptoms; increased physical pain; increased

headaches or migraines. > > > > > > >

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