Re: re-exposed, re-dosed and falling apart...

[Guest guest]

Angelika,

I know the feeling all too well. No, it is NOT your sinus's and YES

it is the mold (mycotoxins) affecting your brain. I deal with this

type of headpain (just calling it a headache or migraine doesn't do

it justice. I wish it were that simple.) for 9 straight years now.

Not even morphine kills the pain, it does dull it a little to where

I can at least function is a " normal moldie condition " . From I have

been told (by various doctors) the swelling and pain at the base of

the skull (back of neck) is the lymphnodes swelling. The lump there

for me has gotten as big as 2 " around and extremely painful. This

normally happens when I get one of two things, another hit or a

chemical hit. Then the rest of the symptoms decide to get into the

act and say " Hey I'm here too. " Poor KC has to deal with this from

me for several days or weeks.

When I get a mold hit my temples will also swell and discolor. I

finally had one doctor (out of so many I've lost count) actually put

that in her report.

I have continuous pain in my head, just some spots will hurt more

than others and at times they ALL will act up at once. I also have

what I call " hot spots " on my head. I can walk out of the shower

with my hair wet and have KC feell certain parts fo my head that are

hurting more at that time, the hair in those areas will be

completely dry, where the rest of the head will still be dripping

water.

I too have felt like there were " worms " crawling across my brain and

when it finally reached the other side I felt a " rip " , screamed and

dropped to the ground. When I discribed to KC the " worm feeling " he

looked at me kind of funny (but he knows not to doubt what I say) it

was not two days later that 2 other people he was talking to on the

phone discribed the exact " worm " description.

And Yes, it does affect the brain. I have had extensive pyscological

and mental testing done and unfortunately the end results were not

what I was expecting, brain damage. And this was even before we knew

about mold and the affects that it could have.

I wish I could give you an answer that would help eleviate these

pains, but unfortunately we have yet to find one. Just know that you

are not alone and unfotunately we have heard these symptoms from far

too many people.

SC

(KC's wife)

--- In , " platy99 " <moldhelp@p...>

wrote:

> HI all,

>

> I've been on Dr. M's meds for about three weeks, follow a strict

> mold/anti-yeast diet and out of my old place for nearly 2 months.

> I was starting to feel better - more good days than bad. Not as

many

> tremors, " brain-death " , redused sinus symtpoms (actually I was

> starting to blow grey / black stuff out of my nose and I won't

even go

> into the GI issues), more energy...you know the rest of the

symtpoms.

>

> Last night I put my (old) car up for sale. I haven't been in it for

> almost two months. I was showing it to a potential buyer. I leaned

in

> to take something off the seat and within hours the itching,

tremors

> and severe headache came roaring back. I actually " felt " this

coming

> on as I was talking to the buyer after he test drove it (without

me).

> I thought " OH DEAR GOD NO _ ARE YOU KIDDING ME? MY CAR??? " I

> meediately jumped in the shower and scrubbed. The symptoms became

> progessively worse. I woke at 2:00 AM with a head so bad, I got

two

> bags of frozen peas out of the fridge and placed them on the back

and

> top of my head secured by a towel. It felt like my brain was

swelling

> inside my skull. This morning I am weak and my head feels " sore " .

>

> I am beginning to believe this mold poisoning has developed into a

VOC

> situation.

>

> I have a question for you all -

> This " mold " headache is so different from anything I have ever

> expereienced. It feels like waves of spasms through the outter

sheath

> of the brain. Does anyone know what I am talking about? You know

that

> dread-contraction spasm you feel in your chest when you see

someone

> hurt? That's what it feels like but all around your head. Then

comes

> the zoning / spacing out. You really do feel like you are going

nuts.

>

> Do these come from the brain actually being afffected? Or is it

> sinuses swelling to badly so fast that the pressure squeezes the

life

> out of your head?

>

> Can anyone relate or describe it better?

>

> I am owndering if I should get checked out by a neurologist.

There's

> one in SF who has published studdies on mold and the affects on the

> brain.

>

> Angelika

[Guest guest]

Subject: [] Re: re-exposed, re-dosed and falling apart...

> Angelika,

>

> I know the feeling all too well. No, it is NOT your sinus's and YES

> it is the mold (mycotoxins) affecting your brain. I deal with this

> type of headpain (just calling it a headache or migraine doesn't do

> it justice. I wish it were that simple.) for 9 straight years now.

> Not even morphine kills the pain, it does dull it a little to where

> I can at least function is a " normal moldie condition " . From I have

> been told (by various doctors) the swelling and pain at the base of

yes ! That's it. At the base of the neck. Doctors in the past said it was

tension headache - they were not listening.

> the skull (back of neck) is the lymphnodes swelling. The lump there

That makes sense. My lymph nodes under my jaw get huge too and under my

armpits they ache.

I jsut have to ride this out until I de-tox some more. Prolly gonna take

days again.

> I wish I could give you an answer that would help eleviate these

> pains, but unfortunately we have yet to find one. Just know that you

> are not alone and unfotunately we have heard these symptoms from far

> too many people.

My only hope is that the longer I stay away from it - I do get better.

This is the first heache I've had like this in months and until last night

after dosing myself.

Today I had to stay home from work. I do OK for about 5 minutes sitting up

and then

the dizzy (wavey) feeling starts. Like I am on a gentle rollercoaster - that

pressure you

feel in yoru head as you go up and down on those things.

Every bone in my body hurts and I am weak as a lamb and my tongue burns.

I have been crying and swearing at the world all morning long.

Angeika

>

> SC

> (KC's wife)

>

>

> > HI all,

> >

> > I've been on Dr. M's meds for about three weeks, follow a strict

> > mold/anti-yeast diet and out of my old place for nearly 2 months.

> > I was starting to feel better - more good days than bad. Not as

> many

> > tremors, " brain-death " , redused sinus symtpoms (actually I was

> > starting to blow grey / black stuff out of my nose and I won't

> even go

> > into the GI issues), more energy...you know the rest of the

> symtpoms.

> >

> > Last night I put my (old) car up for sale. I haven't been in it for

> > almost two months. I was showing it to a potential buyer. I leaned

> in

> > to take something off the seat and within hours the itching,

> tremors

> > and severe headache came roaring back. I actually " felt " this

> coming

> > on as I was talking to the buyer after he test drove it (without

> me).

> > I thought " OH DEAR GOD NO _ ARE YOU KIDDING ME? MY CAR??? " I

> > meediately jumped in the shower and scrubbed. The symptoms became

> > progessively worse. I woke at 2:00 AM with a head so bad, I got

> two

> > bags of frozen peas out of the fridge and placed them on the back

> and

> > top of my head secured by a towel. It felt like my brain was

> swelling

> > inside my skull. This morning I am weak and my head feels " sore " .

> >

> > I am beginning to believe this mold poisoning has developed into a

> VOC

> > situation.

> >

> > I have a question for you all -

> > This " mold " headache is so different from anything I have ever

> > expereienced. It feels like waves of spasms through the outter

> sheath

> > of the brain. Does anyone know what I am talking about? You know

> that

> > dread-contraction spasm you feel in your chest when you see

> someone

> > hurt? That's what it feels like but all around your head. Then

> comes

> > the zoning / spacing out. You really do feel like you are going

> nuts.

> >

> > Do these come from the brain actually being afffected? Or is it

> > sinuses swelling to badly so fast that the pressure squeezes the

> life

> > out of your head?

> >

> > Can anyone relate or describe it better?

> >

> > I am owndering if I should get checked out by a neurologist.

> There's

> > one in SF who has published studdies on mold and the affects on the

> > brain.

> >

> > Angelika

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Angelika,

I had burning of tongue also. It felt like I had actually burned it on

something hot, lasted for weeks. I thought it might be side affects of

treatment I'm under for Candida. I have systemic Candida infection, that's

why I was up on that subject. What do you think it is from?

Barb B

----- Original Message -----

From: <moldhelp@...>

> Every bone in my body hurts and I am weak as a lamb and my tongue burns.

>

> I have been crying and swearing at the world all morning long.

>

> Angeika

[Guest guest]

Barbra........

I have hadthe burning tongue for a while. I believe it is from exposure.

Respiratory, nasal, throat, mouth mucus, ears are all connected. The tongue

is highly sensitive. It would be one of the first things to detect " bad

things " . Humans were designed that way to safe guard us from eatring stupid

things. However inhilation is not as " johnny on the spot " I think. BTW -

seems my immune system has been slowly shot to hell as I too have systemic

candida. Fighting two things on the same front. De-tox.

Angelika

Re: Re: [] Re: re-exposed, re-dosed and falling

apart...

> Angelika,

> I had burning of tongue also. It felt like I had actually burned it on

> something hot, lasted for weeks. I thought it might be side affects of

> treatment I'm under for Candida. I have systemic Candida infection,

that's

> why I was up on that subject. What do you think it is from?

> Barb B

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: <moldhelp@...>

>

>

> > Every bone in my body hurts and I am weak as a lamb and my tongue burns.

> >

> > I have been crying and swearing at the world all morning long.

> >

> > Angeika

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" platy99 " wrote:

> I've been on Dr. M's meds for about three weeks, follow a strict

> mold/anti-yeast diet and out of my old place for nearly 2 months.

> I was starting to feel better - more good days than bad.

Did you bring stuff from your old place?

What advice did you get on how to move?

-

[Guest guest]

Platy,

Who is Dr M?

----- Original Message -----

From: " erikmoldwarrior "

> " platy99 " wrote:

>> I've been on Dr. M's meds for about three weeks, follow a strict

>> mold/anti-yeast diet and out of my old place for nearly 2 months.

>> I was starting to feel better - more good days than bad.

[Guest guest]

[] Re: re-exposed, re-dosed and falling apart...

> " platy99 " wrote:

> > I've been on Dr. M's meds for about three weeks, follow a strict

> > mold/anti-yeast diet and out of my old place for nearly 2 months.

> > I was starting to feel better - more good days than bad.

>

> Did you bring stuff from your old place?

> What advice did you get on how to move?

> -

I brought nothing from my old place - nothing except my dog who was washed

with an anti-fungal everyday for a week and continues to be washed weekly

now. As far as " how to move " - that was the advice. Leave and don't look

back. Which I did.

I am waiting for Remediation proposal from the complex.

There are *some* things that can and must be saved and I don't care what

anyone says but my son's baby pictures must be wiped down, clear bagged and

will/should be taken to a picture copy place and copied. There's a wall

hanging that has been in my family for 5 decades. That should/will be

cleaned and bagged and store for another generation (or something). The rest

can be burned for all I care. I will cry to loose a lifetime of things I

collected on trips I will never take again. But if I don't get well, then

I'll be dead soon anyway so what's the point.

Why do you ask ?

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Marinkovich....

I think I asked the list earlier if anyone had any experience with him long

term.

Re: [] Re: re-exposed, re-dosed and falling apart...

> Platy,

> Who is Dr M?

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " erikmoldwarrior "

>

> > " platy99 " wrote:

> >> I've been on Dr. M's meds for about three weeks, follow a strict

> >> mold/anti-yeast diet and out of my old place for nearly 2 months.

> >> I was starting to feel better - more good days than bad.

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Platy,

Re: pictures

I would think *now pictures should be the easiest thing to resolve, thank

goodness, since they are probably the most precious. Seems to me you could

just scan your pictures into your computer and then have them printed out at

Kinkos or Walmart?

----- Original Message -----

From: <moldhelp@...>

> There are *some* things that can and must be saved and I don't care what

> anyone says but my son's baby pictures must be wiped down, clear bagged

> and

> will/should be taken to a picture copy place and copied.

[Guest guest]

> As far as " how to move " - that was the advice. Leave and don't look

> back. Which I did.

It appears that Dr M has not significantly refined his advice in the

last six years.

This simple strategy was inapplicable to me, as I had moved many times

and distanced myself from various possesions yet this illness followed

me anyway. As I said to Dr Cheney at the beginning of the " Chronic

Fatigue Syndrome " phenomenon, " I have an inexorably increasing

reactivity to mold that grows progressively worse no matter where I

live or how well I take care of myself " .

(Anybody heard of CFS?)

I finally got tired of advice that was not relevant to my situation

and devised my own Extreme Avoidance strategy which was based upon my

actual needs rather than the doctors opinions.

Pity that I have to express anything negative about a fairly decent

doctor who is trying to help, but I'm afraid that Dr M failed to

exploit his opportunity to learn from a survivor when he had the

chance.

Unlike another doctor I know of who seizes his opportunities without

hesitation.

As I've written on the list for years, based on my experience, the

toxins may denature after several years if stored in a dry climate and

are packed open to air circulation. So I wouldn't advise tossing out

anything that is precious to you. You might just be able to get them

back someday, although I know it doesn't feel that way right now.

-

[Guest guest]

> Last night I put my (old) car up for sale. > I thought " OH DEAR GOD NO _ ARE

YOU

KIDDING ME? MY CAR??? "

My other car got dosed from sitting in the backyard, along with whatever we drug

in. My

son crashed it, though, so good riddance. The new old cars seem to be fine, or

finer.

>It felt like my brain was swelling inside my skull. This morning I am weak and

my head

feels " sore " .

I went through some basement stuff, outside, gloved, nice day, and got a

headache for my

troubles. I didn't realize that it would be from mold or toxin exposure, until I

read the

posts from this one. Now I think it is, as it starts in the back of the

head/neck area. My

husbands gets so bad it becomes a migrane, and if I rub that area it really

helps. he has

called it his " toxic " headache for years. Different from a normal migraine, in

that the back

of the head is kind of puffy.

I do get symptoms of worsening brain toxicity when I get mold exposed- after

feeling

better for awhile, of course.

It seems that madness preceeds death in this mold illness.....

[Guest guest]

From: " kl_clayton " <kl_clayton@...>

>

> I went through some basement stuff, outside, gloved, nice day, and got a

> headache for my

> troubles. I didn't realize that it would be from mold or toxin exposure,

> until I read the

> posts from this one.

Wouldn't wearing a tight sealing face mask protect us to some degree when we

are in a moldy environment? I'm not saying this is the answer to avoidance;

however I believe in protection. Eye goggles, face mask, gloves, disposable

clothing, head protection when we just have to clean out?

Rosie

[Guest guest]

Mycotoxins cannot be filtered out with traditional filtering products,

respirators, hepa, etc

> Wouldn't wearing a tight sealing face mask protect us to some degree

when we

> are in a moldy environment? I'm not saying this is the answer to

avoidance;

> however I believe in protection. Eye goggles, face mask, gloves,

disposable

> clothing, head protection when we just have to clean out?

>

> Rosie

[Guest guest]

[] Re: re-exposed, re-dosed and falling apart...

> Mycotoxins cannot be filtered out with traditional filtering products,

> respirators, hepa, etc....>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Carondeen: is the information presented below incorrect based upon your

statement above?

http://www.mold-survivor.com/when_biotoxins_are_tools_of_terr.htm

scroll down to: Trichothecene mycotoxins

" Prevention

Protective clothing used for chemical agents should provide an effective

barrier to skin exposure, and face masks that prevent the penetration of

particles 3 to 4 micrometers in size are adequate for respiratory protection

(11).

Decontamination

Standard decontamination procedures for chemical or toxin exposure should be

followed. Washing skin with soap and water can significantly reduce

absorption, even 4 to 6 hours after exposure; runoff, clothing, and surfaces

should be decontaminated within 6 hours of exposure with a 1% sodium

hypochlorite solution with sodium hydroxide (5,11) "

Rosie

>

>> Wouldn't wearing a tight sealing face mask protect us to some degree

> when we

>> are in a moldy environment? I'm not saying this is the answer to

> avoidance;

>> however I believe in protection. Eye goggles, face mask, gloves,

> disposable

>> clothing, head protection when we just have to clean out?

>>

>> Rosie

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" carondeen " wrote:

> Mycotoxins cannot be filtered out with traditional filtering

products, respirators, hepa, etc

>

Only VOC filters do any good at all.

's advice is completely consistent with my experience of

testing a contaminated object by wrapping it up in Hepa Filters and

trying to sleep on it and being slammed anyway.

This is the test that directly led to me disagreement with Dr M

about the characteristics of mycotoxin exposures and what steps must

realistically be taken to effectively avoid mycotoxins.

It is very strange that after hearing about my test, he even agreed

with me, by telling me about the housing project in Sweden which

confirmed the concept, but then proceded on with his protocol based

upon the premise that my problem was an allergic response as if our

discussion had never happened.

This confirmed that Dr M's mental function was stuck in

the " allergy " paradigm and could not address my situation.

The recent posts concerning Dr M's protocols suggest that his views

have not changed in the last six years since I saw him.

-

[Guest guest]

From: " erikmoldwarrior " <erikmoldwarrior@...>

> Only VOC filters do any good at all.

> -

>

, so I understand, please explain what you consider a VOC filter.

Thanks,

Rosie

[Guest guest]

My hapa filter air cleaners have charcoal filters in them.

[Guest guest]

I wonder what " 1% sodium

hypochlorite solution with sodium hydroxide (5,11) "

is below. Anyone know?

----- Original Message -----

From: " Healthier4all " <Healthier4All@...>

surfaces

> should be decontaminated within 6 hours of exposure with a 1% sodium

> hypochlorite solution with sodium hydroxide (5,11) "

>

> Rosie

[Guest guest]

,

What is a 'voc' filter? Is that a charcoal filter?

Wouldn't charcoal filters absorb toxins?

Barb

----- Original Message -----

From: " erikmoldwarrior "

> Only VOC filters do any good at all.

[Guest guest]

I am not knowlegable enough to say what level of protection would be

sufficient to protect one from all types of trichothencene

mycotoxins. But I do know the level of protection that would be

available to most people- a face resperator with a good charcoal

filter-is not enough. Most people do not have easy access to

military type protection. weather or not it would work, I don't know.

protectionsurvivor.com/when_biotoxins_are_tools_of_terr.htm

> scroll down to: Trichothecene mycotoxins

>

> " Prevention

> Protective clothing used for chemical agents should provide an

effective

> barrier to skin exposure, and face masks that prevent the

penetration of

> particles 3 to 4 micrometers in size are adequate for respiratory

protection

> (11).

> Decontamination

> Standard decontamination procedures for chemical or toxin exposure

should be

> followed. Washing skin with soap and water can significantly

reduce

> absorption, even 4 to 6 hours after exposure; runoff, clothing,

and surfaces

> should be decontaminated within 6 hours of exposure with a 1%

sodium

> hypochlorite solution with sodium hydroxide (5,11) "

>

> Rosie

>

>

> >

> >> Wouldn't wearing a tight sealing face mask protect us to some

degree

> > when we

> >> are in a moldy environment? I'm not saying this is the answer to

> > avoidance;

> >> however I believe in protection. Eye goggles, face mask,

gloves,

> > disposable

> >> clothing, head protection when we just have to clean out?

> >>

> >> Rosie

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > FAIR USE NOTICE:

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

In my experiments- a very good voc filter did nothing. I use maskes

eveyday in my restoration work, and have various ones for different

chemicals. The best available- will take out radon daughters-does

nothing for mycotoxins

> > Mycotoxins cannot be filtered out with traditional filtering

> products, respirators, hepa, etc

> >

>

>

> Only VOC filters do any good at all.

>

[Guest guest]

Bleach and lye- try it- nithing will survive that exposure

--- In , " Barbra BW " <bbw@f...>

wrote:

> I wonder what " 1% sodium

> hypochlorite solution with sodium hydroxide (5,11) "

> is below. Anyone know?

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " Healthier4all " <Healthier4All@h...>

> surfaces

> > should be decontaminated within 6 hours of exposure with a 1%

sodium

> > hypochlorite solution with sodium hydroxide (5,11) "

> >

> > Rosie

[Guest guest]

Hi Barb and :

I can't speak for and don't know his level of sensitivity; however what

I've learned from personal trial and error is that when I do wear a dense

face mask with my food-grade activated charcoal material underneath it I do

not react when in a moldy situation. Perhaps I have never encountered the

deadly mycotoxins as has ; all I know I do not react where I would

without my special face mask. Just sharing my experiences.

I recall years ago when I first crashed, I was so reactive to any mold I

couldn't venture out of our home. I belonged to an organic vegetable co-op.

One day as soon as I entered the building I started reacting horribly and

couldn't understand why. Went outside and several volunteers followed me.

They investigated and found several pounds of lemons moldy and moldy

potatoes. That's how reactive I was in those days; same would happen in

produce section of grocery stores; even health food stores. So, decided to

protect myself with my version of a face mask. And being reactive other

environmental toxins after my initial mold exposure I decided prevention is

best and have my charcoal mask on whenever I'm in a compromised situation.

I do a lot of gardening and years ago would even react to the mold in the

soil; especially after a long rain and used my charcoal mask with great

success. I wasn't going to give up gardening so decided best to protect

myself. Since them I'm much better, don't need the mask to garden;

formulated an herbal nose spray which I use prior to gardening and have no

reaction (no willing to give out formula, am having others test it right

now).

I never react when the mask is on and that's why I suggested it. It's not

100% protection for everyone (I wouldn't let's say use it while painting my

wrought iron gate) however I believe for me it is very wise and prudent to

use it. I cannot avoid the world and don't plan to isolate myself. I

believe in prevention. It's like covering myself from head to toe to

protect myself from mosquitoes which are out in full force right now after a

week of heavy rain. I need and want to be in my garden but couldn't unless

I'm protected from them. Saw on news people are demanding the city spray

for mosquitoes and they where protesting in shorts and halter tops. Well,

we know the insecticides used to kill mosquitoes are more detrimental to our

health than the few that get West Nile; why can't they just put on some

clothes, use some non-toxic insect repellants and be out doors.

Just my petals of thoughts,

Rosie

Would love to hear others reaction if they have used face masks with

activated food-grade charcoal liners.

Re: [] Re: re-exposed, re-dosed and falling apart...

> ,

> What is a 'voc' filter? Is that a charcoal filter?

> Wouldn't charcoal filters absorb toxins?

> Barb

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " erikmoldwarrior "

>> Only VOC filters do any good at all.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

From: " carondeen " <kdeanstudios@...>

> Bleach and lye- try it- nithing will survive that exposure

>

>> I wonder what " 1% sodium

>> hypochlorite solution with sodium hydroxide (5,11) "

>> is below. Anyone know?

Yes,those are the common names. However bleach and lye are very caustic and

dangerous for us to inhale. and touch. Before anyone tries this, you need

to know how to work with both and what protective gear you need.

Rosie

[Guest guest]

Re: bleach and lye mixed?

A person should mix bleach and lye together?!!! I don't know if I would

care to handle such a mixture myself. If I spilled it on myself or one of

my pets got underneath or spilled it on floor not realizing it, could end up

an emergency run. I think I would rather deal with the mold at that point.

----- Original Message -----

From: " carondeen " <kdeanstudios@...>

> Bleach and lye- try it- nithing will survive that exposure

>

>> I wonder what " 1% sodium

>> hypochlorite solution with sodium hydroxide (5,11) "

>> is below. Anyone know?