Re: RE: Mold sample - advice needed

[Guest guest]

I would NEVER purposly sell a moldy home to an unwary buyer. Not after what

Ive gone through. I couldnt sleep at night if I knew I sold a moldy house

without disclosing it.There must be other options!

Janet

[Guest guest]

Gingersnap,

I Agree just think of what renters and people living under HUD housing goes thou

strange thing no one will do a thing there's a retirement home HUD 70 year old

lady fighting for her life. all I can do is call and talk to her for I live

under HUD myself Think about that so I do understand what you are talking about

more than you know.

Elvira

Re: [] Re: Mold sample - advice needed

I would NEVER purposly sell a moldy home to an unwary buyer. Not after what

Ive gone through. I couldnt sleep at night if I knew I sold a moldy house

without disclosing it.There must be other options!

Janet

[Guest guest]

I cannotsem to find the post or remember who wrote it. It was quite

recent. If anyone has it--would they send me a copy. It was about

testing procedures, and described the sloppy and unacceptable ways the

tests are done and the proper way and what they should devulge.

Thanks Elie

[Guest guest]

Hey Gilvice,

What you just wrote is not necessarily the best advice. In some cases, it

may be. But in others, it is definately not.

If there is a large mold problem, trying to kill it with Clorox is wrong and

dangerous. This is just going to make the spores airborne, more easily

inhalable, and therefore, more potentially hazardous to one's health. The root

of

the water damage has to be determined and eliminated or the mold will just

come back.

Testing is necessary when there is a known air quality problem in the house.

(Someone is reacting) This is because you need a pre-remediation level that

can be compared against a post-remediation level. Otherwise, one will not

be able to determine if what they remediated actually took care of the problem

or not. Or, if there is another hidden area to be addressed.

Also, testing is necessary when there is illness in order to substanciate

what type of fungi are the causation of the illness. This can then be

correlated with the illness.

Understand, I am not talking about a little mildew in a shower. I am

talking about a serious, expansive mold problem

WR

Sharon

Maybe it's not this environment at all that is causing the illness. Testing

helps to establish causation or lack there of.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Gil.

How does one know if attic is adequately ventilated? I went up there when

it was last raining very hard and didn't notice any leaks. I never thought

about the humidity up there. That sounds like it could be a hard problem to

solve. I couldn't put a dehumifier up there, no place to drain it plus it

dehumifier get too warm to put in an attic.

I've done everything on this list but checked on attic humidity. I bet it's

plenty humid up there now, in July, and wood beam are not treated with

anything.

Barb B

[Norton AntiSpam] [] RE: Mold sample - advice needed

Check that your attic is

> properly vented to minimize condensation in insulation, which leads to

> mold

> on your ceilings. Find and repair all plumbing leaks. Check caulking

> around

[Guest guest]

I agree . I would suspect anyone testing my car might come back with

nothing too terribly special (maybe).

But there it was and there I went - flat on my back writhing in pain and

agony for 24 hours.

It's gonna take me a week or more to get back to where I was before getting

dosed again.

Angelika

[] Re: Mold sample - advice needed

> People point out any mold they see on bread or cheese and say " There

> it is - your mortal enemy. You have to run, right? " .

> And I say " Hell, I'll eat that stuff with my peanut butter sandwich " .

> I don't give a damn about mold that isn't of the toxin producing

> type.

>

> My fight with doctors was that ONLY a few SPECIFIC molds were

> bothersome to me.

> I've had mold all over the place that doesn't worry me at all, as

> long as I'm not reacting to it.

> But on the other hand, I was " perceptifying " a friends house and

> felt " The Wrong Stuff " in the tiled shower walls in the bathroom.

> I pointed at the spot and said " There " .

> We busted through the tile (under full HAZMAT protocols) and there

> it was.

>

> My green binooculars were steeped in Stachy and knocked me flat even

> after being washed and completely submerged in soapy water.

> Conversely-

> Lots of basements, dirt floors and moldy basements don't bother me

> at all.

>

> None of this " testing " discussion applies to people like me.

> We are WAY beyond being able to use tests as a useful guide to

> action.

> -

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Gil and Sharon,

I agree and would add that in my opinion the NYC guidelines are the

weakest of what is available that makes these recommendations. The

free EPA doc at epa.gov/iaq entitled Mold Removal in Schools and

Commercial Buildings goes into more detail about why and why not to

test. The IICRC S520 Standard and Reference Guide for Professional

Mold Remediation details why there are no exposure standards. The

consensus - lack thereof - of the industry, including mold

laboratories, is reflected in the opinions expressed in an article I

wrote in the April Indoor Environment Connections available at:

www.ieconnections.com/archive/apr_05/apr_05.htm#Word_on_the_Street

Page down about 2 screens for the article title " The Future of Mold

Testing -... "

Sharon, because of this I disagree with the reliability of results

and interpretation of data that is implied in your post. However,

those specific questions can often be answered by appropriate

testing. What cannot be determined is a generalized " Go " or " No Go "

to remove it and a " Job Finished " after the work is done in terms of

human reactivity.

All test results must be compared to something, and that something of

mold is not a regulation or an exposure level. It is more correctly

compared to whether or not the occupant complaints have stopped.

(There are two statements in ACGIH for this).

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Please read the web site of New York City department of health. A

> recommendation is made to place far more emphasis on correcting the

> conditions that allow mold growth than to worry about testing. The

> testing won't tell you any more than you should already know. You

> already know by the musty smell and stains that you have mold. You

> know that you have moisture problems. Try your best to control it. You

> may change your landscaping and improve roof runoff control to

> minimize penetration of water into your basement. Repair the cracks in

> your basement stairs. If your roof is repaired, remove the moldy

> particle board. Clean basement walls and spray with dilute Clorox to

> kill residual existing mold. Check that your attic is properly vented

> to minimize condensation in insulation, which leads to mold on your

> ceilings. Find and repair all plumbing leaks. Check caulking around

> windows, doors, even where pipes go through walls, such as outside

> water faucets. Make sure shower/cooking steam is vented to the

> outside. Once all this is taken care of, testing may be necessary to

> find residual problem areas.

>

> Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:15:01 -0400

> From: <rhbailey@...>

> Subject: Mold sample - advice needed

>

> Hi all,

>

> I just finished Shoemaker's book, Mold Warriors, and it tells how to

> collect a mold sample on a piece of tape and where to send it.

>

> I think it costs $35 per sample, so I want to start with only one.

> I'm having trouble deciding where in our house I should take the

> sample.

>

> FIRST POSSIBLE PLACE:

> Should I take a sample from the stone wall that lines the stone stairs

> that go down into our basement? I've read that mold lives on

> cellulose, but how about stone? There's space between the stones where

> the masonry has fallen out, and water sometimes seeps in there.

>

> The stone wall is black in a couple of places, and it could be dirt,

> not mold. If it is dirt, is it okay to stick the tape right on the

> dirt? Or should I scrape the dirt off and put it on the tape? Would

> the mold be in the dirt?

>

> Occasionally I notice a moldy smell as I go down these stairs, and a

> few times it has made me cough.

>

> If I took a sample in the basement itself, I wouldn't know where to

> begin. There's a dirt floor, and every time it rains two or three

> inches of water comes in, drains to the sump pump and is pumped out.

> Sometimes mushrooms grow in the dirt. The funny thing is, I never

> noticed a moldy smell down there until we put fiberglass insulation

> bats on the basement ceiling. We got a dehumidifier and I don't

> notice the smell any more.

>

> SECOND POSSIBLE PLACE:

> I few years ago our roof leaked into our attic and the particle board

> floor turned black under the leak.

>

> THIRD POSSIBLE PLACE:

> Soon after we had the attic leak I noticed in the bedroom below, that

> the place where the wall and ceiling meet had turned gray, just a

> strip an inch or two wide. It has not been painted since then.

>

> (Now I'm wondering about something else: when you can see gray

> dimples where the sheetrock was nailed to the ceiling, could that be

> mold caused by moisture condensing on the nails?)

>

> I'm new at this mold stuff, but want to send a sample today, so would

> appreciate advice.

>

> Sue ,

> Upstate New York

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I’ve never heard of an aerosol you can spray into a room to not make mold

grow. What kind of spray is that?

We have just an attic space, not a true attic. There is an access panel

through my closet. I bought some of those ozone light bulbs and will

probably have my husband go up there and install it in the receptacle so I

can turn it on and off. We built our house 4 ½ years ago and we haven’t had

any problems with water leaks. My toxic mold exposure was at work, but now

I am looking at everything at my house to make sure it doesn’t happen here.

Our basement is finished and is a walk-out. We have always used a

dehumidifier in the summer time, and we have a gas fireplace that we use in

the winter. I haven’t had any symptoms from being in my home. And I’ve

been here every single day since March, and will be until I find a new job.

The woman I was training to replace me came to my house so I could train

her. She brought a box of my stuff from the office – pictures, drawings my

kids have done, other things they’ve made from school. I told her to put in

on the front porch because I didn’t want it brought into my house until I

figure out how to decontaminate it. I thought about moving the cars out of

the garage and laying them out on the floor and using the ozone light for a

few days.

[] Re: Mold sample - advice needed

Why not spray up there with one of the won't grow mold sprays? Get

someone else to do it if you are mcs- my old attic was nice and dry

before a vine grew up and covered the house, then everything stored

molded up there

karen---

[Guest guest]

As Dr. Shoemaker wrote in " Mold Warriors, " it's not an air quality report

that determines a sick building; it's sick people that determine if a

building is sick.

My employer tried to say that because the mold spore counts were higher

outside now than inside, that the problem was fixed. even though I still got

sick, and the report showed that the spore counts inside were also now

higher than what they were prior to their minimal " remediation " attempts.

From what I've read and researched, this is my understanding. There are a

handful of molds that produce toxic spores when they appear inside

water-damaged buildings. So far I haven't found anything that says these

molds appear in, or create toxicity when they are in a building that has not

been water-damaged in some form. If a building is not tight, and mold

spores seep in from outside, or are carried in by other means, then the

types of molds and counts should be similar, or less, indoors than out. If

an indoor air sample is taken and there appears to be presence of the toxic

producing mold spores, without adequate competition from other types of

non-toxic, allergenic molds, and illness is apparent, there is a problem no

matter what the counts are outside versus inside.

Molds are everywhere indeed. But, I've never had a reaction to mold when

outside.

Re: [] RE: Mold sample - advice needed

>>>All test results must be compared to something, and that something of

mold is not a regulation or an exposure level. It is more correctly

compared to whether or not the occupant complaints have stopped.

(There are two statements in ACGIH for this).

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC<<<<

[Guest guest]

Gil,

Will an attic fan dehumify attic???

I will put a humidity gauge up there. I bet the humidity right now up their

is 70% or higher since it is very high outside. The inside living area is

dry since I have basement dehumifier and central air conditioner going in

the house. Humidity in the house is in the mid-40% range.

----- Original Message -----

From: " Gil Vice " <gilvice@...>

> Barb,

>

> Attic problems are far too common. One major cause is a bathroom or

> kitchen fan which vents into the attic instead of outside. Another is

> simply

> room humidity from the living area penetrating the ceiling, particularly

> when there is blown in insulation with no vapor barrier

[Guest guest]

Thanks. Guess I’ll have to have someone make copies of my pictures or look

for the negatives and have new ones printed off. :-( What a bummer!

[] Re: Mold sample - advice needed

Three M makes a product, also After shock, there are several types

on the market, but Gil is right-attacking the humidity issue is the

way to go. I think you will be dissapointed in the ozone lights,

they may have some ability to keep a clean place clean, but you

would not be able to trust them to decontaminate the stuff from

work, They could not even get some small chemical oder out of the

bathroom. just have someone else throw the stuff out for you- be

safe-