Re: Mold sample - advice needed

[Guest guest]

I would think the black stuff in the basement. On a test with tape,

you need to put it right on something that you suspect is mold. For

other areas you mentioned, you might be better off with air tests

like the Pro Lab. I would wonder what the air test would show with

your basement floor that grows mushrooms!! You could do an air test

in room under old leak. However if leak was fixed two years ago, if

it was problem, I would think you would have musty smell. For air

tests, which I know isn't what you asked but, I would pick rooms you

spend the most time in.

--- In , <rhbailey@d...>

wrote:

> Hi all,

>

> I just finished Shoemaker's book, Mold Warriors, and it tells how

to

> collect a mold sample on a piece of tape and where to send it.

>

> I think it costs $35 per sample, so I want to start with only

one. I'm

>

[Guest guest]

...to answer your question regarding rock, mold doesn't grow on rock

or concrete, but it does grow on the dust or dirt that is on the

rock, so yes there can be mold on your rock wall but if you say

cleaned it real often, it would stop growing there. Since that

would be difficult especially with dirt floor, keeping basement

dehumidified to below 40% humidity would probably prevent mold from

growing down there. Perhaps one cleanup of any mold you find there,

and then dehumify to below 40% always. I'm not sure if that is

possible with dirt floor. Maybe someone else knows that.

--- In , <rhbailey@d...>

wrote:

> Hi all,

>

> I just finished Shoemaker's book, Mold Warriors, and it tells how

to

> collect a mold sample on a piece of tape and where to send it.

>

> I think it costs $35 per sample, so I want to start with only

one. I'm

> having trouble deciding where in our house I should take the

sample.

>

> FIRST POSSIBLE PLACE:

> Should I take a sample from the stone wall that lines the stone

stairs

> that go down into our basement? I've read that mold lives on

> cellulose, but how about stone? There's space between the stones

where

> the masonry has fallen out, and water sometimes seeps in there.

>

> The stone wall is black in a couple of places, and it could be

dirt,

> not mold. If it is dirt, is it okay to stick the tape right on

the

> dirt? Or should I scrape the dirt off and put it on the tape?

Would

> the mold be in the dirt?

>

> Occasionally I notice a moldy smell as I go down these stairs, and

a

> few times it has made me cough.

>

> If I took a sample in the basement itself, I wouldn't know where

to

> begin. There's a dirt floor, and every time it rains two or three

> inches of water comes in, drains to the sump pump and is pumped

out.

> Sometimes mushrooms grow in the dirt. The funny thing is, I never

> noticed a moldy smell down there until we put fiberglass

insulation

> bats on the basement ceiling. We got a dehumidifier and I don't

notice

> the smell any more.

>

> SECOND POSSIBLE PLACE:

> I few years ago our roof leaked into our attic and the particle

board

> floor turned black under the leak.

>

> THIRD POSSIBLE PLACE:

> Soon after we had the attic leak I noticed in the bedroom below,

that

> the place where the wall and ceiling meet had turned gray, just a

strip

> an inch or two wide. It has not been painted since then.

>

> (Now I'm wondering about something else: when you can see gray

dimples

> where the sheetrock was nailed to the ceiling, could that be mold

> caused by moisture condensing on the nails?)

>

> I'm new at this mold stuff, but want to send a sample today, so

would

> appreciate advice.

>

> Sue ,

> Upstate New York

[Guest guest]

The first consideration is " Do I really want to officially know? "

because once you find something, it is your legal and moral

obligation to disclose it.

And therebye destroy the value of the house.

The reality is that Stachy and other toxin formers can be found in

almost every building on the planet.

And if you locate so much as one single spore, does that mean the

place should be burned down?

Your investment devalued?

Does it even mean that this is where you are picking up the exposure

that is " putting you under " ?

Not hardly!

As the " experts " say: " Mold is everywhere " .

And they are right!

I parted ways with conventional thinkers on mold when I realized

that since the damn stuff really IS everywhere, and on everything,

but that I only had to worry about specific toxins - that it was

impossible to rely on any 'test' to assess exposure levels.

That's why I went to a pristine place to establish a baseline of

perceptive value, got out a sample of mold that I had established to

be an irritant by assessing my own response, and proximity tested to

train myself to be my own 'test'.

As described in the book, the other molds had no effect and so I

don't worry about them at all.

So if you test a bunch of benign molds and don't locate the toxin

former colony, all this will do is convey a generalized sense of

mold as confusing nonspecific source of illness.

As Dr Shoemaker describes, the way to establish mycotoxin illness is

to conduct exposure - inflammatory response testing to a known mold

source. This overcomes obfusticators such as the housing project

in Sweden that had mold sealed inside the walls so tightly that no

spores escaped yet the inhabitants were still sick.

It was the sickness that made the diagnosis and not the mold tests.

The mold wasn't found until the walls in the buildings were

demolished.

All these " plates " and Air Samplers can do is, at best,

confirm the presence of mold. These tests do little to rule it out

or verify that this it the true source of exposure and illness.

Some people succumb to their major exposure at work yet point the

finger at their home because they can't sleep at night.

Nobody said this was easy to deal with except for the people selling

ozone machines.

-

[Guest guest]

,

Mostly I would like to ask: How do you find a truly 'pristine'

environment to start with ???????????????

Secondly, I won't negate your advice since how it affects you is the

important thing and you have a tremendous amount of experience and

effort you put into this. However I will say the thing testing did

for me was to locate areas to improve. I was going out onto

screened in porch to get some 'fresh air' only to find out air tests

results of porch were worse of all, worse than basement where I

could see mold on walls (before I cleaned them). Air tests in

basement said results were within normal limits and also in rest of

house. However mold air samples on porch said results were 'not'

within normal limits. Thankfully porch is also easiest and cheapest

area to remodel. So it was helpful. I almost did not test porch

since I thought air would be 'good' since it would be mostly outdoor

air. Not so, as all the materials used out there had not stood up

to humid outdoor air so remodeling will be made out of materials

suitable for out door, not indoors like they were.

Thirdly, the advice on being wary to officially test your house is

very good advice!!! I was trepidacious for sure but decided since

moving for me was 'close to' impossible, it never is 'really'

impossible, just degrees of difficulty and financial loss. This is

very good advice though to people who moving is in the near future

or good soluttion. If you don't know, you don't have to reveal at

sale. If you do testing, get bad results and don't reveal at time

of sale, sales form will ask you question pointedly, you could be

sued. How would they know? Well, they could call the exact same

testing service as you call for tests and they could have records of

prior testing done for one thing. That is why I opted for the home

test kits but of course there is a record at lab it went to also but

less likely to be known by another home owner I would think. I took

a chance.

Thankfully mold tests all came out within normal limits, which are

pretty broad, with exception of porch, so actually I could use them

in a positive way if someone was very concerned about mold or leaky

something here. It probably was my own prior health conditions that

made me susceptible to illness from mold or it is the 'toxins' from

the mold that WAS here prior to clean up (I did clean up BEFORE I

did testing just because I didn't know how to test then) still

lingering here and causing me problems.

Barb-B

> The first consideration is " Do I really want to officially know? "

> because once you find something, it is your legal and moral

> obligation to disclose it.

> And therebye destroy the value of the house.

>

[Guest guest]

As I want to write everyday I read more uncommon sense comming from

this mold warrior-right on ! My sister is now conducting mold

tests in her house after I succumbed to the black stuff growing out

of a crack in her shower. I gave up after a week of trying to

convince her of a sane way to deal with it. Even with all she has

seen me go through, people just don't understand.

> The first consideration is " Do I really want to officially know? "

> because once you find something, it is your legal and moral

> obligation to disclose it.

> And therebye destroy the value of the house.

>

> The reality is that Stachy and other toxin formers can be found in

> almost every building on the planet.

> And if you locate so much as one single spore, does that mean the

> place should be burned down?

> Your investment devalued?

> Does it even mean that this is where you are picking up the

exposure

> that is " putting you under " ?

> Not hardly!

>

> As the " experts " say: " Mold is everywhere " .

> And they are right!

>

> I parted ways with conventional thinkers on mold when I realized

> that since the damn stuff really IS everywhere, and on everything,

> but that I only had to worry about specific toxins - that it was

> impossible to rely on any 'test' to assess exposure levels.

>

> That's why I went to a pristine place to establish a baseline of

> perceptive value, got out a sample of mold that I had established

to

> be an irritant by assessing my own response, and proximity tested

to

> train myself to be my own 'test'.

> As described in the book, the other molds had no effect and so I

> don't worry about them at all.

>

> So if you test a bunch of benign molds and don't locate the toxin

> former colony, all this will do is convey a generalized sense of

> mold as confusing nonspecific source of illness.

>

> As Dr Shoemaker describes, the way to establish mycotoxin illness

is

> to conduct exposure - inflammatory response testing to a known

mold

> source. This overcomes obfusticators such as the housing project

> in Sweden that had mold sealed inside the walls so tightly that no

> spores escaped yet the inhabitants were still sick.

> It was the sickness that made the diagnosis and not the mold

tests.

> The mold wasn't found until the walls in the buildings were

> demolished.

>

> All these " plates " and Air Samplers can do is, at best,

> confirm the presence of mold. These tests do little to rule it

out

> or verify that this it the true source of exposure and illness.

> Some people succumb to their major exposure at work yet point the

> finger at their home because they can't sleep at night.

> Nobody said this was easy to deal with except for the people

selling

> ozone machines.

> -

[Guest guest]

I certainly didn't mean to imply that I would either but I just meant

I was scared to have the air tests done simply because most all my

money is tied up in my home. I okayed to real estate agent to already

show my home even though I have done no 'superficial' repairs, i.e.

stain of ceiling still which could easily paint over. House is not

yet listed but everyone I showed ceiling stain to, said to not worry,

use stain blocker so I'm sure I could just as easily buy a house with

stain blocker paint on it since pretty much everyone thought that was

how you take care of stain on ceiling. I'm showing the house with

it. I will paint it when I'm sure problem has been corrected. Roof

has been repaired. Now I'm waiting for time to pass and recheck area

for mold, etc. Then I will paint ceiling. I couldn't either sell a

mold pit to someone else.

However with the fact that 99.99999% of people handle water staining

etc like this, I think you have to think twice before looking into

professional air testing if you are about to sell a home. You could

leave stain there to be honest with buyer. Noone will probably think

anything of it. They will probably think " I'll paint over that " , then

it is whether they looked into fixing reason for stain. I wouldn't go

into things I've learned by this research and make them wary of it

either because chances are 90% of homes I will be looking at will have

painted over stains. I don't think the playing field is level.

> I would NEVER purposly sell a moldy home to an unwary buyer. Not

after what

> Ive gone through. I couldnt sleep at night if I knew I sold a moldy

house

> without disclosing it.There must be other options!

> Janet

>

[Guest guest]

It is bizarre and insane beyond belief to huddle soaking wet,

miserable and cold in a car with steamed up icy windows watching the

snow build up on the windshield while you have a warm bed in a warm

house with the heater running that you dare not enter.

And after hours of misery in which you can barely summon the

strength to move, you realize that even being parked near your house

is more than you can stand. So you drive out to some lonely dirt

road and park in the trees, but not so far away from the road that

if several feet of snow should fall, you can at least get back to

the road.

It is a fate that no ethical person would willingly inflict on

anyone else.

Pity that not everyone feels this way, like that realtor who

knowingly tried to sell a moldy house to my friend.

He thanked me profusely for warning him about such places where the

price is " too good to be true " .

Might just be a very good reason for that low price from people who

need to " sell quick " .

Even at a time when all doctors " friends " relatives, realtors and

almost everyone within my experience called me a liar about mold,

still I paid to have every bit of mold that I could find removed

from the house before I sold it.

As it happens, I walked a detection pattern around the house and

found that a spore plume was coming from the city sewer vent from an

adjacent property and slamming me.

I drew the line at taking responsiblity for that.

But I'm seeing this same scenario more and more.

People are sickened by plumes that have nothing to do with their own

building.

Remediologists are coming up against this problem, but so far they

have been silent.

The implications are so vast, that I suppose it will remain

an " untouchable " subject until it grows too big to ignore any longer.

-

[Guest guest]

Please read the web site of New York City department of health. A

recommendation is made to place far more emphasis on correcting the

conditions that allow mold growth than to worry about testing. The testing

won't tell you any more than you should already know. You already know by

the musty smell and stains that you have mold. You know that you have

moisture problems. Try your best to control it. You may change your

landscaping and improve roof runoff control to minimize penetration of water

into your basement. Repair the cracks in your basement stairs. If your roof

is repaired, remove the moldy particle board. Clean basement walls and spray

with dilute Clorox to kill residual existing mold. Check that your attic is

properly vented to minimize condensation in insulation, which leads to mold

on your ceilings. Find and repair all plumbing leaks. Check caulking around

windows, doors, even where pipes go through walls, such as outside water

faucets. Make sure shower/cooking steam is vented to the outside. Once all

this is taken care of, testing may be necessary to find residual problem

areas.

Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:15:01 -0400

From: <rhbailey@...>

Subject: Mold sample - advice needed

Hi all,

I just finished Shoemaker's book, Mold Warriors, and it tells how to

collect a mold sample on a piece of tape and where to send it.

I think it costs $35 per sample, so I want to start with only one. I'm

having trouble deciding where in our house I should take the sample.

FIRST POSSIBLE PLACE:

Should I take a sample from the stone wall that lines the stone stairs

that go down into our basement? I've read that mold lives on

cellulose, but how about stone? There's space between the stones where

the masonry has fallen out, and water sometimes seeps in there.

The stone wall is black in a couple of places, and it could be dirt,

not mold. If it is dirt, is it okay to stick the tape right on the

dirt? Or should I scrape the dirt off and put it on the tape? Would

the mold be in the dirt?

Occasionally I notice a moldy smell as I go down these stairs, and a

few times it has made me cough.

If I took a sample in the basement itself, I wouldn't know where to

begin. There's a dirt floor, and every time it rains two or three

inches of water comes in, drains to the sump pump and is pumped out.

Sometimes mushrooms grow in the dirt. The funny thing is, I never

noticed a moldy smell down there until we put fiberglass insulation

bats on the basement ceiling. We got a dehumidifier and I don't notice

the smell any more.

SECOND POSSIBLE PLACE:

I few years ago our roof leaked into our attic and the particle board

floor turned black under the leak.

THIRD POSSIBLE PLACE:

Soon after we had the attic leak I noticed in the bedroom below, that

the place where the wall and ceiling meet had turned gray, just a strip

an inch or two wide. It has not been painted since then.

(Now I'm wondering about something else: when you can see gray dimples

where the sheetrock was nailed to the ceiling, could that be mold

caused by moisture condensing on the nails?)

I'm new at this mold stuff, but want to send a sample today, so would

appreciate advice.

Sue ,

Upstate New York

[Guest guest]

Barb,

If you have bare earth in the basement (on the floor or an entry to

a crawlspace), you will never get better. The bare earth has

microbes (mold and bacteria) and a constant flow of water that can

not be overcome until the floor or dirt is sealed is sealed.

Otherwise, you should not have dirt in your basement.

Regards,

Greg Weatherman

aerobioLogical Solutions Inc.

Arlington VA 22202

gw@...

> > Hi all,

> >

> > I just finished Shoemaker's book, Mold Warriors, and it tells

how

> to

> > collect a mold sample on a piece of tape and where to send it.

> >

> > I think it costs $35 per sample, so I want to start with only

> one. I'm

> > having trouble deciding where in our house I should take the

> sample.

> >

> > FIRST POSSIBLE PLACE:

> > Should I take a sample from the stone wall that lines the stone

> stairs

> > that go down into our basement? I've read that mold lives on

> > cellulose, but how about stone? There's space between the stones

> where

> > the masonry has fallen out, and water sometimes seeps in there.

> >

> > The stone wall is black in a couple of places, and it could be

> dirt,

> > not mold. If it is dirt, is it okay to stick the tape right on

> the

> > dirt? Or should I scrape the dirt off and put it on the tape?

> Would

> > the mold be in the dirt?

> >

> > Occasionally I notice a moldy smell as I go down these stairs,

and

> a

> > few times it has made me cough.

> >

> > If I took a sample in the basement itself, I wouldn't know where

> to

> > begin. There's a dirt floor, and every time it rains two or

three

> > inches of water comes in, drains to the sump pump and is pumped

> out.

> > Sometimes mushrooms grow in the dirt. The funny thing is, I

never

> > noticed a moldy smell down there until we put fiberglass

> insulation

> > bats on the basement ceiling. We got a dehumidifier and I don't

> notice

> > the smell any more.

> >

> > SECOND POSSIBLE PLACE:

> > I few years ago our roof leaked into our attic and the particle

> board

> > floor turned black under the leak.

> >

> > THIRD POSSIBLE PLACE:

> > Soon after we had the attic leak I noticed in the bedroom below,

> that

> > the place where the wall and ceiling meet had turned gray, just

a

> strip

> > an inch or two wide. It has not been painted since then.

> >

> > (Now I'm wondering about something else: when you can see gray

> dimples

> > where the sheetrock was nailed to the ceiling, could that be

mold

> > caused by moisture condensing on the nails?)

> >

> > I'm new at this mold stuff, but want to send a sample today, so

> would

> > appreciate advice.

> >

> > Sue ,

> > Upstate New York

[Guest guest]

People point out any mold they see on bread or cheese and say " There

it is - your mortal enemy. You have to run, right? " .

And I say " Hell, I'll eat that stuff with my peanut butter sandwich " .

I don't give a damn about mold that isn't of the toxin producing

type.

My fight with doctors was that ONLY a few SPECIFIC molds were

bothersome to me.

I've had mold all over the place that doesn't worry me at all, as

long as I'm not reacting to it.

But on the other hand, I was " perceptifying " a friends house and

felt " The Wrong Stuff " in the tiled shower walls in the bathroom.

I pointed at the spot and said " There " .

We busted through the tile (under full HAZMAT protocols) and there

it was.

My green binooculars were steeped in Stachy and knocked me flat even

after being washed and completely submerged in soapy water.

Conversely-

Lots of basements, dirt floors and moldy basements don't bother me

at all.

None of this " testing " discussion applies to people like me.

We are WAY beyond being able to use tests as a useful guide to

action.

-

[Guest guest]

Why not spray up there with one of the won't grow mold sprays? Get

someone else to do it if you are mcs- my old attic was nice and dry

before a vine grew up and covered the house, then everything stored

molded up there

karen---

In , " Barbra BW " <bbw@f...> wrote:

> Thanks Gil.

> How does one know if attic is adequately ventilated? I went up

there when

> it was last raining very hard and didn't notice any leaks. I

never thought

> about the humidity up there. That sounds like it could be a hard

problem to

> solve. I couldn't put a dehumifier up there, no place to drain it

plus it

> dehumifier get too warm to put in an attic.

> I've done everything on this list but checked on attic humidity.

I bet it's

> plenty humid up there now, in July, and wood beam are not treated

with

> anything.

> Barb B

> [Norton AntiSpam] [] RE: Mold sample -

advice needed

>

>

> Check that your attic is

> > properly vented to minimize condensation in insulation, which

leads to

> > mold

> > on your ceilings. Find and repair all plumbing leaks. Check

caulking

> > around

[Guest guest]

Barb,

Attic problems are far too common. One major cause is a bathroom or

kitchen fan which vents into the attic instead of outside. Another is simply

room humidity from the living area penetrating the ceiling, particularly

when there is blown in insulation with no vapor barrier underneath. You can

check humidity with the same type humidity gauge you use to check your

basement. In summer, a very quick check is whether your eyeglasses

immediately fog when you enter the hot attic. If so, in the heat of summer,

humidity can degrade the wood structure, particularly the plywood or OSB

commonly used for roofing on newer houses (rot is a problem of mold, but

plywood and OSB can simply degrade, even in the absence of rot). In winter,

moisture can condense and drip onto ceilings, leading to possible mold.

You can have a fan installed in the roof. Just make sure there are enough

openings in the soffit, the gable ends, or elsewhere on the roof to allow

enough air in to allow proper venting.

Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 22:50:24 -0400

From: " Barbra BW " <bbw@...>

Subject: Re: RE: Mold sample - advice needed

Thanks Gil.

How does one know if attic is adequately ventilated? I went up there when

it was last raining very hard and didn't notice any leaks. I never thought

about the humidity up there. That sounds like it could be a hard problem to

solve. I couldn't put a dehumifier up there, no place to drain it plus it

dehumifier get too warm to put in an attic.

I've done everything on this list but checked on attic humidity. I bet it's

plenty humid up there now, in July, and wood beam are not treated with

anything.

Barb B

[Guest guest]

Sharon,

Please re-read my earlier post. I did not say to use Clorox as a first

line defense. I said to look for the moisture problems that allow mold to

grow, solve them, and then use the Clorox treatment.

You may remember a recent post by someone still having problems after the

mold tests said everything was fine. The same happened to me in my

workplace. I was sensitized by an obviously moldy workplace HVAC system.

After installation of a new system I soon started reacting again. There was

no odor, few others reported problems, but I would start a non-stop cough

within minutes of going to work. A CIH determined there was nothing in the

building which could cause my problem, and that it must be psychosomatic

(that after 7 years without a sick day). Some additional accommodations were

made anyway per my ADA request, and I was able to work a few more years

until early retirement.

Testing only detects what the tester is looking for. And not all symptoms

are caused by what is tested. In agreement with the NYC department of

health, I still believe that more emphasis should be placed on problem

correction than worrying about all the fine points of the problem, most of

which may be irrelevant.

Gil

Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 22:26:51 EDT

From: snk1955@...

Subject: Re: RE: Mold sample - advice needed

Hey Gilvice,

What you just wrote is not necessarily the best advice. In some cases, it

may be. But in others, it is definately not.

If there is a large mold problem, trying to kill it with Clorox is wrong

and dangerous. This is just going to make the spores airborne, more easily

inhalable, and therefore, more potentially hazardous to one's health. The

root of the water damage has to be determined and eliminated or the mold

will just come back.

Testing is necessary when there is a known air quality problem in the

house. (Someone is reacting) This is because you need a pre-remediation

level that can be compared against a post-remediation level. Otherwise,

one will not be able to determine if what they remediated actually took care

of the problem or not. Or, if there is another hidden area to be

addressed.

Also, testing is necessary when there is illness in order to substanciate

what type of fungi are the causation of the illness. This can then be

correlated with the illness.

Understand, I am not talking about a little mildew in a shower. I am

talking about a serious, expansive mold problem

WR

Sharon

Maybe it's not this environment at all that is causing the illness.

Testing

helps to establish causation or lack there of.

[Guest guest]

Kim,

I hope Dr. Shoemaker has made a difference in your quality of life.

You are correct. There are organims that often times (but not

always) indicate a problem. Look at publications written by Dr. Chin

Yang. He has done a lot of good work with " water marker organisms "

in scientific literature.

http://www.oehc.uchc.edu/clinser/MOLD%20GUIDE.pdf

Also, a ratio of Aspergillus or Penicillium to Cladosporium can be

useful (except in the winter). Cladosporium should be higher or

more dominant in air samples. This was shown in a study cowritten

by Dr. Chin Yang in the December (2004)issue of the Journal of

Occupational and Environmental Hygiene published by the ACGIH and

AIHA.

But, I still believe everyone should consult a professional as far

as sampling. It is not as simple as many think. There are many who

take samples but few who can really investigate and interpret

findings. Carl does raise some very valid points for this reason.

Finally, if I'm the remediation contractor, I won't perform until

there are baseline test results or a wavier signed. It's a condition

of insurance. The other groups (EPA, ACGIH, IICRC, NYC, AIHA, etc.)

or publications don't mean squat if the get in the way of an

insurance policy requirement. While their credentials and peer

review process may seem great, they don't pay my legal bills if I'm

sued. Those groups also don't pay you when a contractor or

consultant screws-up your property or health.

Something to think about.

Regards,

Greg Weatherman

aerobioLogical Solutions Inc.

Arlington VA 22202

> As Dr. Shoemaker wrote in " Mold Warriors, " it's not an air quality

report

> that determines a sick building; it's sick people that determine

if a

> building is sick.

>

> My employer tried to say that because the mold spore counts were

higher

> outside now than inside, that the problem was fixed. even though I

still got

> sick, and the report showed that the spore counts inside were also

now

> higher than what they were prior to their minimal " remediation "

attempts.

>

> From what I've read and researched, this is my understanding.

There are a

> handful of molds that produce toxic spores when they appear inside

> water-damaged buildings. So far I haven't found anything that

says these

> molds appear in, or create toxicity when they are in a building

that has not

> been water-damaged in some form. If a building is not tight, and

mold

> spores seep in from outside, or are carried in by other means,

then the

> types of molds and counts should be similar, or less, indoors than

out. If

> an indoor air sample is taken and there appears to be presence of

the toxic

> producing mold spores, without adequate competition from other

types of

> non-toxic, allergenic molds, and illness is apparent, there is a

problem no

> matter what the counts are outside versus inside.

>

> Molds are everywhere indeed. But, I've never had a reaction to

mold when

> outside.

>

>

> Re: [] RE: Mold sample - advice needed

>

> >>>All test results must be compared to something, and that

something of

> mold is not a regulation or an exposure level. It is more correctly

> compared to whether or not the occupant complaints have stopped.

> (There are two statements in ACGIH for this).

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC<<<<

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I don't know what sprays you are referring to. I had mold remediators offer

to 'fog' the attic for me but I didn't ask what the 'fogging' chemical was.

That was in regards to mold I thought I had due to a leak around the

chimney. I fixed that leak and assumed the mold would go away after the

repair but now realizing that humidity in attic could be high in summer,

perhaps it won't go away on it's on. I forgot about air humidity.

What spray are you referring to or where would I find information on it?

Thanks, Barb B

----- Original Message -----

From: " carondeen " <kdeanstudios@...>

> Why not spray up there with one of the won't grow mold sprays? Get

> someone else to do it if you are mcs- my old attic was nice and dry

> before a vine grew up and covered the house, then everything stored

> molded up there

> karen---

[Guest guest]

Three M makes a product, also After shock, there are several types

on the market, but Gil is right-attacking the humidity issue is the

way to go. I think you will be dissapointed in the ozone lights,

they may have some ability to keep a clean place clean, but you

would not be able to trust them to decontaminate the stuff from

work, They could not even get some small chemical oder out of the

bathroom. just have someone else throw the stuff out for you- be

safe-

> I've never heard of an aerosol you can spray into a room to not

make mold

> grow. What kind of spray is that?

>

> We have just an attic space, not a true attic. There is an access

panel

> through my closet. I bought some of those ozone light bulbs and

will

> probably have my husband go up there and install it in the

receptacle so I

> can turn it on and off. We built our house 4 ½ years ago and we

haven't had

> any problems with water leaks. My toxic mold exposure was at

work, but now

> I am looking at everything at my house to make sure it doesn't

happen here.

>

> Our basement is finished and is a walk-out. We have always used a

> dehumidifier in the summer time, and we have a gas fireplace that

we use in

> the winter. I haven't had any symptoms from being in my home.

And I've

> been here every single day since March, and will be until I find a

new job.

>

> The woman I was training to replace me came to my house so I could

train

> her. She brought a box of my stuff from the office – pictures,

drawings my

> kids have done, other things they've made from school. I told her

to put in

> on the front porch because I didn't want it brought into my house

until I

> figure out how to decontaminate it. I thought about moving the

cars out of

> the garage and laying them out on the floor and using the ozone

light for a

> few days.

>

> [] Re: Mold sample - advice needed

>

> Why not spray up there with one of the won't grow mold sprays? Get

> someone else to do it if you are mcs- my old attic was nice and dry

> before a vine grew up and covered the house, then everything stored

> molded up there

> karen---

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have fogged repeatedly with Moldzyme by sorbent tech.866-767-2832-

I have the cleaning lady fog after she finishes-otherwise I cannot

enter the house-it helps keep everything down to a level I can live

with. It is considered non-toxic and hypoallergenic-it acts as an

enzyme that breaks down bio-films. I have also used Bio-Kleen by

Virginia-it is .1% Chlorine Dioxide- and is made to be fogged into

ductwork as a germicidal product for hospitals. You will have to

google for it-Virginia KMP Corp.Dallas Texas---As a disclaimer-I am

endorsing non of these things as a do-it yourself mold remediation

process- only that I have used them to help me live in hyper-clean

enviroment, to be able to live and work indoors-that it has helped

me to do that- not to remediate an allready toxic enviroment

In , " Barbra BW " <bbw@f...> wrote:

> ,

> I don't know what sprays you are referring to. I had mold

remediators offer

> to 'fog' the attic for me but I didn't ask what the 'fogging'

chemical was.

> That was in regards to mold I thought I had due to a leak around

the

> chimney. I fixed that leak and assumed the mold would go away

after the

> repair but now realizing that humidity in attic could be high in

summer,

> perhaps it won't go away on it's on. I forgot about air humidity.

> What spray are you referring to or where would I find information

on it?

> Thanks, Barb B

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " carondeen " <kdeanstudios@v...>

>

>

> > Why not spray up there with one of the won't grow mold sprays?

Get

> > someone else to do it if you are mcs- my old attic was nice and

dry

> > before a vine grew up and covered the house, then everything

stored

> > molded up there

> > karen---

[Guest guest]

Healthy house recomendes 40% humidity in summer- 30%-in Winter- this

for mixed humid climates-where the house will dry to the inside in

summers- it seems they are now re-thinking the attic situation-

after changing allot of crawl space codes to reflect the humidity

issue-the attic is a problem- especially if you have trees that help

with the thermal pollution

-- In , " Barbra BW " <bbw@f...> wrote:

> Gil,

> Will an attic fan dehumify attic???

> I will put a humidity gauge up there. I bet the humidity right

now up their

> is 70% or higher since it is very high outside. The inside living

area is

> dry since I have basement dehumifier and central air conditioner

going in

> the house. Humidity in the house is in the mid-40% range.

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " Gil Vice " <gilvice@h...>

>

> > Barb,

> >

> > Attic problems are far too common. One major cause is a

bathroom or

> > kitchen fan which vents into the attic instead of outside.

Another is

> > simply

> > room humidity from the living area penetrating the ceiling,

particularly

> > when there is blown in insulation with no vapor barrier