Guest guest Posted July 22, 2005 Report Share Posted July 22, 2005 Many thanks to the people who personally e-mailed me with info on where I could purchase masks. I would like to clarify this issue. My goal is to save others from the horrific experience of being hit with a mycotoxin release that might kill them or cripple them for life. When my studio molded from leaving the window open in July and August, I easily cleaned up all the mold wearing a light mask. I carry a light silk mask with me at all times in case I hit someplace, indoor or out that is moldy. I need it while driving because I have to clean the AC . I have used all types of masks in my long career as a commercial artist. The person I buy the masks from is required by law to know what I am using- I send the lists of MSDS once a year, they check to make sure I have the right filters. Many things formerly thought that could be dealt with a VOC mask, like polyurethane, now require outside supply of air and a full face mask- thus the explosion of these professional rigs in the painting and refinishing business-The mold spore is a relatively large thing-easily filtered out with a good mask. But people are again confusing mycotoxins with the spore. Mycotoxins cannot be easily filtered out. They will come through walls that are tightly sealed. They will go from your nose to your brain in an instant without the need for a blood stream as a highway. Conventional masks ,VOC or not ,will not filter them out. If you think of it like radiation, you will be closer to the mark than thinking of a dusty mote. I would not want a sensitized person to think they could remediate their home just by covering up and wearing a good mask- if there is a colony of toxin forming molds- and they are putting out mycotoxins-you could be killed. Please take this advise- it is all I can offer to keep you safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2005 Report Share Posted July 22, 2005 If you think of it like radiation, you will be closer to the mark than thinking of a dusty mote. > I remember yelling that same sentiment at befuddled doctors comparing the characteristics of mycotoxins to radioactivity. That's why I just started acting in accordance with my Army training for CBR warfare. And I can remember when 3M changed their filter design, because that's when I tossed my old face mask since I didn't need it any more. , good of you to try to give it to people straight, but as Rick advised me " I don't think they will listen to you " . So you are just going to have to stand by and watch more people needlessly drop while doctors remain baffled. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2005 Report Share Posted July 22, 2005 >The mold spore is a relatively large thing-easily filtered out with a good mask. But >people are again confusing mycotoxins with the spore. Mycotoxins cannot be easily >filtered out. Well, maybe, but my doc says that many mold spores are submicron in size, so full protection is warranted when working around it. Maybe it was the mycotoxin that was affecting everyone who worked in my basement while wearing the masks recommended by the epa.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 , these are excellent points you make. But if what you say about masks is true, wouldnt most mold remediation personel be getting very sick? --- In , " KAREN DEAN " <kdeanstudios@v...> wrote: > Many thanks to the people who personally e-mailed me with info on where I could purchase masks. I would like to clarify this issue. My goal is to save others from the horrific experience of being hit with a mycotoxin release that might kill them or cripple them for life. When my studio molded from leaving the window open in July and August, I easily cleaned up all the mold wearing a light mask. I carry a light silk mask with me at all times in case I hit someplace, indoor or out that is moldy. I need it while driving because I have to clean the AC .. I have used all types of masks in my long career as a commercial artist. The person I buy the masks from is required by law to know what I am using- I send the lists of MSDS once a year, they check to make sure I have the right filters. Many things formerly thought that could be dealt with a VOC mask, like polyurethane, now require outside supply of air and a full face mask- thus the explosion of these professional rigs in the painting and refinishing business-The mold spore is a relatively large thing-easily filtered out with a good mask. But people are again confusing mycotoxins with the spore. Mycotoxins cannot be easily filtered out. They will come through walls that are tightly sealed. They will go from your nose to your brain in an instant without the need for a blood stream as a highway. Conventional masks ,VOC or not ,will not filter them out. If you think of it like radiation, you will be closer to the mark than thinking of a dusty mote. I would not want a sensitized person to think they could remediate their home just by covering up and wearing a good mask- if there is a colony of toxin forming molds- and they are putting out mycotoxins-you could be killed. Please take this advise- it is all I can offer to keep you safe. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 , Many of them are getting sick. However, keep in mind that there are a lot of low wage laborers being used, the turn-over is fairly high and most won't realize the connection or report it as such. They just quit or are fired for poor performance. Some of the first credible information about reactivity among workers in the industry came from some of the higher profile leaders that realized what was happening to themselves and began talking about it at conferences. At first they were met with skepticism because of the mistaken assumption that respiratory protection was absolute. Only slowly did they comprehend that all the NIOSH approved masks and similar devices have an APF rating (assigned protection factor). The better ones are 50 while the more common ones are 5 or 10. The APF is the ratio of the mold outside the mask to inside where the worker is breathing. It accounts for both the filtering capability (including HEPA) and how well it fits to the face. A 10 means the exposure is 1/10, or a 90% reduction. But considering that disturbing the mold growth can, according to some sources, result in as many as 10,000,000/m3 spores in the air, a 1/10 reduction means the worker is exposed to 1,000,000. An APF of 50 still results in an exposure of 200,000. Is that enough when lab data often measures 5,000 or less to begin with? Dust masks, especially the stiff ones from hardware stores, are virtually worthless because they don't fit the face at all. Their APFs are often more like 2 or less, which is half the numbers inside as outside. Most of the common APFs are below 10 because they don't fit will. In fact, workers are supposed to be fit tested to make sure their respirators don't leak. Sorry for the long answer but there are technical considerations and some science behind this. Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC ----- > , these are excellent points you make. > > But if what you say about masks is true, wouldnt > most mold remediation personel be getting very sick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Good Morning Carl: It's early in the morning and my brain is still trying to wake up. Am I reading this correct? There is no protective gear yet that fully protects us or the workers involved in mold remediation? If yes, then what is the answer? Thanks Rosie > Many of them are getting sick. However, keep in mind that there are a > lot of low wage laborers being used, the turn-over is fairly high and > most won't realize the connection or report it as such. They just > quit or are fired for poor performance. > >> Carl Grimes > Healthy Habitats LLC > > ----- >> , these are excellent points you make. >> >> But if what you say about masks is true, wouldnt >> most mold remediation personel be getting very sick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Healthier4All wrote: > Good Morning Carl: > It's early in the morning and my brain is still trying to wake up. Am I > reading this correct? There is no protective gear yet that fully > protects > us or the workers involved in mold remediation? If yes, then what is the > answer? > > Thanks > Rosie And is wearing a mask for Chemical Intolerance suitable " accomodations " under the American Disability Act? -- Sick Librarian at dot Com http://pagewebberink.com/~angie/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 OK, About the mycotoxins and masks. The toxin has a unique molecular structure, like water- thus allowing it to go through things. That is why cotton sheeting items are possible to clean, but polartec, which really doesn't get wet, is seemingly impossible for me to clean. Water goes right through charcoal- it is what we filter it with. I also tried to go into a contaminated area with a very good mask, and got very ill. The mask will filter out the spore, the VOC's, but not the toxin. I have heard that there are professional masks that are extremely small pore size that filter them out. Also, a professional remediation co. would use a full face mask connected to an outside air supply- so the question would be moot. Also, people who have not been sensitized, and not lost whatever hormone or substance, (Actos?- I am still reading up on this)- from chronic exposure, will not feel the mycotoxin burn, which I am beginning to understand as an immune reaction of your skin to the toxin. The most difficult thing for me to grapple with was that other people would not feel anything in an area that was toxic to me. It is a complicated issue, that people will probably know allot more about in the years to come. I would like other people to straighten out my thinking for me on this one if they can. > > Many thanks to the people who personally e-mailed me with info on > where I could purchase masks. I would like to clarify this issue. My > goal is to save others from the horrific experience of being hit with > a mycotoxin release that might kill them or cripple them for life. > When my studio molded from leaving the window open in July and August, > I easily cleaned up all the mold wearing a light mask. I carry a light > silk mask with me at all times in case I hit someplace, indoor or out > that is moldy. I need it while driving because I have to clean the AC > . I have used all types of masks in my long career as a commercial > artist. The person I buy the masks from is required by law to know > what I am using- I send the lists of MSDS once a year, they check to > make sure I have the right filters. Many things formerly thought that > could be dealt with a VOC mask, like polyurethane, now require outside > supply of air and a full face mask- thus the explosion of these > professional rigs in the painting and refinishing business-The mold > spore is a relatively large thing-easily filtered out with a good > mask. But people are again confusing mycotoxins with the spore. > Mycotoxins cannot be easily filtered out. They will come through walls > that are tightly sealed. They will go from your nose to your brain in > an instant without the need for a blood stream as a highway. > Conventional masks ,VOC or not ,will not filter them out. If you think > of it like radiation, you will be closer to the mark than thinking of > a dusty mote. I would not want a sensitized person to think they could > remediate their home just by covering up and wearing a good mask- if > there is a colony of toxin forming molds- and they are putting out > mycotoxins-you could be killed. Please take this advise- it is all I > can offer to keep you safe. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 > Many of them are getting sick. However, keep in mind that there are a lot of low wage laborers being used, the turn-over is fairly high and most won't realize the connection or report it as such. They just quit or are fired for poor performance.< I remember reading the story of a Mexican laborer who was assigned to clean up the debris of a remediation job that was piled behind the house. Despite the knowledge of the people doing the remediating that they were cleaning up something that was fairly bad, the worker received no warning whatsoever. And when he fell ill, he received no help whatsoever. You may recall from an old post of mine, when a remediation company started up in Reno, I was talking to the owner who had quickly become so mold reactive that he could only coordinate jobs, but not actually be present - as this was too much for him. His reactivity was forcing him out of actual remediation work but he was now conducting seminars to train others. I thought this was an interesting development that someone who had convincingly demonstrated an insufficiency of control over the various factors concerning mold should now be the " expert " and providing his flawed techniques to others. He mentioned that his wife had been diagnosed with CFS and doctors could do nothing to help her. So I told my story as an example of the necessity for extreme avoidance and suggested that controlling for cross contamination might be a strategy applicable to their situation, especially since I was getting major mold hits from him as we sat in the restaurant where we met for lunch. Typically, he was disinterested. I hope they are satisfied with whatever they are currently doing. I climbed Mt Lola north of Castle Peak on the Pacific Crest Trail yesterday, and I'm headed down to the White Mountains today. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 " carondeen " < wrote: > About the mycotoxins and masks. The toxin has a unique > molecular structure, like water- thus allowing it to go through > things. Agree completely about " the mycotoxin burn " . Funny to watch everyone debating the value of various masks when the " effect " so completely supersedes this one variable that is it counterpructive to have the mindset that filtration is going to get you out of this mess. If I hadn't listened to " experts " rather than relying upon the sensations I could so clearly feel, I would have spent years in total agony instead of having years of adventures to look back on. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 There is a lot of wisdom here for those still suffering- most people fear change more than anything- and to listen to what your body is saying- " get me out of here before I die " as opposed to your muddled brain which says " I can't quit my job- I can't get another apt- It is just an allergy-I will feel better if I clean the place and put in a hepa filter " Listen to your body, and bring the brain along as you quit your job and walk out the door. karen > listened to " experts " rather than relying upon the > sensations I could so clearly feel, I would have spent years in total > agony instead of having years of adventures to look back on. > - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 This is very interesting. We can only assume that there are people who are not as sensitive as we are to the mycotoxins. However, I continue to hear of those who don't react to them the same way that we do and become ill with cancer, have miscarriages, etc. You might say that we are fortunate that our bodies have given us the allergic response. It may have saved us from a more frightful fate. United Health Group was the sick building in which I worked, so I do hear from former workers and those who know workers there. It's like another Love Canal in that industrial park. The turnover rate is so great that job fairs are held on a regular basis. It's sinful to think of the great number of people who have died or been made ill for life by working for these companies. It's also criminal negligence because they DO know about it. Barth TOXIC MOLD SURVEY: www.presenting.net/sbs/sbssurvey.html --- c> OK, c> About the mycotoxins and masks. The toxin has a unique c> molecular structure, like water- thus allowing it to go through c> things. That c> is why cotton sheeting items are possible to clean, but polartec, c> which c> really doesn't get wet, is seemingly impossible for me to clean. c> Water goes c> right through charcoal- it is what we filter it with. I also tried c> to go c> into a contaminated area with a very good mask, and got very ill. c> The mask c> will filter out the spore, the VOC's, but not the toxin. I have c> heard that c> there are professional masks that are extremely small pore size that c> filter c> them out. Also, a professional remediation co. would use a full face c> mask c> connected to an outside air supply- so the question would be moot. c> Also, c> people who have not been sensitized, and not lost whatever hormone c> or c> substance, (Actos?- I am still reading up on this)- from chronic c> exposure, c> will not feel the mycotoxin burn, which I am beginning to understand c> as an c> immune reaction of your skin to the toxin. The most difficult thing c> for me c> to grapple with was that other people would not feel anything in an c> area c> that was toxic to me. It is a complicated issue, that people will c> probably c> know allot more about in the years to come. I would like other c> people to straighten out my thinking for me on this one if they can. c> c> >> > Many thanks to the people who personally e-mailed me with info c> on >> where I could purchase masks. I would like to clarify this issue. c> My >> goal is to save others from the horrific experience of being hit c> with >> a mycotoxin release that might kill them or cripple them for life. >> When my studio molded from leaving the window open in July and c> August, >> I easily cleaned up all the mold wearing a light mask. I carry a c> light >> silk mask with me at all times in case I hit someplace, indoor or c> out >> that is moldy. I need it while driving because I have to clean the c> AC >> . I have used all types of masks in my long career as a commercial >> artist. The person I buy the masks from is required by law to know >> what I am using- I send the lists of MSDS once a year, they check c> to >> make sure I have the right filters. Many things formerly thought c> that >> could be dealt with a VOC mask, like polyurethane, now require c> outside >> supply of air and a full face mask- thus the explosion of these >> professional rigs in the painting and refinishing business-The mold >> spore is a relatively large thing-easily filtered out with a good >> mask. But people are again confusing mycotoxins with the spore. >> Mycotoxins cannot be easily filtered out. They will come through c> walls >> that are tightly sealed. They will go from your nose to your brain c> in >> an instant without the need for a blood stream as a highway. >> Conventional masks ,VOC or not ,will not filter them out. If you c> think >> of it like radiation, you will be closer to the mark than thinking c> of >> a dusty mote. I would not want a sensitized person to think they c> could >> remediate their home just by covering up and wearing a good mask- c> if >> there is a colony of toxin forming molds- and they are putting out >> mycotoxins-you could be killed. Please take this advise- it is all c> I >> can offer to keep you safe. >> > >> > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 > Agree completely about " the mycotoxin burn " . Would/can someone please explain symptoms of " mycotoxin burn " ? Thanks, Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 When you talk about mycotoxin burn, are you talking about a freeze/burn sensation on the skin? I've had that from my waist down now, for nearly 8 yrs!!!!!!!!! thanks, v., [] Re: masks and mycotoxins > " carondeen " < wrote: >> About the mycotoxins and masks. The toxin has a unique >> molecular structure, like water- thus allowing it to go through >> things. > > > Agree completely about " the mycotoxin burn " . > Funny to watch everyone debating the value of various masks when > the " effect " so completely supersedes this one variable that is it > counterpructive to have the mindset that filtration is going to get > you out of this mess. > If I hadn't listened to " experts " rather than relying upon the > sensations I could so clearly feel, I would have spent years in total > agony instead of having years of adventures to look back on. > - > > > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE: > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Rosie, Yes, you are correct. Although some methods reduce the exposures more than others, nothing is absolute. The question becomes, how much reduction is needed to be " safe? " Public health will determine what is acceptable for most people, but that will not include those that are allergic or sensitized - most of us! In a way it is similar to figuring out what size HEPA filter to use in your home or office. Most are rated at 4 air exchanges per hour. But if the source is heavier than " normal " or if your sensitivity is more than " normal " then you may want one that is rated at 6, 8 10 or greater air exchanges per hour. Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC ----- > Good Morning Carl: > It's early in the morning and my brain is still trying to wake up. Am > I reading this correct? There is no protective gear yet that fully > protects us or the workers involved in mold remediation? If yes, then > what is the answer? > > Thanks > Rosie > > > Many of them are getting sick. However, keep in mind that there are > > a lot of low wage laborers being used, the turn-over is fairly high > > and most won't realize the connection or report it as such. They > > just quit or are fired for poor performance. > > > >> Carl Grimes > > Healthy Habitats LLC > > > > ----- > >> , these are excellent points you make. > >> > >> But if what you say about masks is true, wouldnt > >> most mold remediation personel be getting very sick? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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