Re: Modified protocol questions

[Guest guest]

I remember the Jarrow but I don't remember the B12 Infusion b Enzymatic. The

protocol has changed very little but it has changed.

Here is the current Simplified protocol per Rich's post in Sept 2011:

Message #133195

March 30. 2011

SIMPLIFIED TREATMENT APPROACH

FOR LIFTING THE METHYLATION CYCLE BLOCK

IN CHRONIC FATIGUE SYNDROME—March 30, 2011 Revision

Rich Van Konynenburg. Ph.D.

(Based on the full treatment program

developed by Amy Yasko, Ph.D., N.D.

which is used primarily in treating autism [1])

SUPPLEMENTS

1. General Vitamin Neurological Health Formula [2]: Start with one-quarter

tablet and increase dosage as tolerated to 2 tablets daily

2. Hydroxy B12 Mega Drops [3]: 2 drops under the tongue daily

3. MethylMate B [4]: 3 drops under the tongue daily

4. Folinic acid [5]: ¼ capsule daily

5. Phosphatidyl Serine Complex [6]: 1 softgel capsule daily (or lecithin, see

below)

All these supplements can be obtained from http://www.holisticheal.com.

The fourth supplement comes in capsules that contain 800 mcg. It will be

necessary to open the capsules, dump the powder onto a flat surface, and

separate it into quarters using a knife to obtain the daily dose. The powder can

be taken orally with water, with or without food.

These supplements can make some patients sleepy, so in those cases they

take them at bedtime. In general, they can be taken at any time of day, with or

without food.

Phosphatidyl serine can lower cortisol levels. Patients who already have

low evening cortisol levels may wish to substitute lecithin [7] (at one softgel

daily) for supplement number 5 above. Lecithin is also available from

http://www.holisticheal.com.

For those allergic to soy, lecithin from other sources is available.

GO SLOWLY. As the methylation cycle block is lifted, toxins are mobilized

and processed by the body, and this can lead to an exacerbation of symptoms. IF

THIS HAPPENS, try smaller doses, every other day. SLOWLY work up to the full

dosages.

Although this treatment approach consists only of nonprescription

nutritional supplements, a few patients have reported adverse effects while on

it. Therefore, it is necessary that patients be supervised by physicians while

receiving this treatment.

[1] Yasko, Amy, Autism, Pathways to Recovery, Neurological Research Institute,

2009, available from http://www.holisticheal.com or Amazon.

[2] General Vitamin Neurological Health Formula is formulated and supplied by

Holistic Health Consultants LLC.

[3] Hydroxy B12 Mega Drops is a liquid form of hydroxocobalamin (B12), supplied

by Holistic Health Consultants. 2 drops is a dosage of 2,000 mcg.

[4] MethylMate B is a liquid form of (6s)-methyltetrahydrofolate supplied by

Holistic Health Consultants, based on Extrafolate S, a trademark of Gnosis

S.P.A. 3 drops is a dosage of 210 mcg.

[5] Folinic acid is 5-formyltetrahydrofolate. ¼ capsule is a dosage of 200 mcg.

[5] Phosphatidyl Serine Complex is a product of Vitamin Discount Center. 1

softgel is a dosage of 500 mg.

[7] Lecithin is a combination of phospholipids without phosphatidylserine. One

softgel is a dosage of 1,200 mg.

>

> Hello Group,

>

> At one time were the supplements Jarrow meth b-12, 5000mcg & B12 infusion by

Enzymatic part of the protocol? If so, why was it changed or were they never

part of it? For some reason I thought this was the correct form and quality of

b-12????

>

> tia,

>

> Gail

>

[Guest guest]

What was the reason it changed?

Gail

> >

> > Hello Group,

> >

> > At one time were the supplements Jarrow meth b-12, 5000mcg & B12 infusion by

Enzymatic part of the protocol? If so, why was it changed or were they never

part of it? For some reason I thought this was the correct form and quality of

b-12????

> >

> > tia,

> >

> > Gail

> >

>

[Guest guest]

If you access the forum on the web, and click on Messages, there will be a small

box with word " Message: " to the left of it. Type in " 133195 " and you will go to

that post. As you scroll down, you can see the entire thread.

Rich goes into more detail in other posts on that thread (for example, lecithin

is substituted for phos. serine because it can lower cortisol.)

Marti

> > Message #133195

Re: methylation treatment

Hi, Gordon.

The simplified methylation protocol has been revised. The formulation of

Intrinsi B12/folate was changed by Metametrix, and it no longer contains folinic

acid. Other changes were made to minimize folic acid in the protocol, to make

it more convenient by using drops instead of splitting capsules, and adding

lecithin as an option for those with low cortisol. The most recent version is

pasted below.

Best regards,

Rich

> > >

> > > Hello Group,

> > >

> > > At one time were the supplements Jarrow meth b-12, 5000mcg & B12 infusion

by Enzymatic part of the protocol? If so, why was it changed or were they never

part of it? For some reason I thought this was the correct form and quality of

b-12????

> > >

> > > tia,

> > >

> > > Gail

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Group,

I was on this list a few years ago, before Rich developed his methalation

protocol. So after this long brake I am trying very hard to catch up and as you

will all see I have a lot of reading ahead of me. I have a few questions that I

would somebody to answer:

1) What is methalation in the first place?

2) What is the process that is stopping it in the first place?

3) Do all confirmed CFS patients have this blockage?

4) I no longer live in the US, so I cannot get the supplements that are

suggested. What are the main ingredients of the supplements? I can buy them

individually here in Poland.

5) Once I have the ingredients, what is the schedule for taking them?

Thank you all for your help!

Mira S. Ghoshal

From: wanda85929@...

Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 23:52:30 +0000

Subject: Modified protocol questions

Hello Group,

At one time were the supplements Jarrow meth b-12, 5000mcg & B12 infusion by

Enzymatic part of the protocol? If so, why was it changed or were they never

part of it? For some reason I thought this was the correct form and quality of

b-12????

tia,

Gail

[Guest guest]

Hi Mira,

I will try to answer some of your questions.

> 1) What is methalation in the first place?

Methylation is a bodily process of converting one substance into another. A

methyl group is made up of one Carbon atom and three hydrogen atoms and is

written as CH3. Acetylation is another bodily process and there are many

others.

Methylation specificially is one cycle of converting homocysteine to methionine

and tetrhydrofolate to 5- methyl tetrahydrofolate (see top half of this diagram:

Notice how they are gears used together. If the left gear is not working then

the right gear starts to fail as well.

http://www.dramyyasko.com/diagrams-listing/

but methylation is also used to denote the entire pathway (all 5 cycles) - see

bottom half of the above link. I know this looks difficult but it is very

interesting and if you just take one cycle at a time, you will be able to see

why are immune system is broken, why our neurotransmitters are out of balance,

why we are toxic with ammonia byproducts - it is all here in these 5 pathways.

>

> 2) What is the process that is stopping it in the first place?

Through birth or through environmental forces (pesticides, chemicals in our

food, viral attacks, etc), the genetic switch has been reversed and the body

cannot process the substance (could be a vitamin, or a mineral or a hormone).

For example, MTHFR genetic defect (either born with or acquired) is when the

body cannot process folic acid found in food. The fix is to bypass the

non-working gene (genetic bypass) and give the body the supplement needed in a

bioavailable form - folinic acid for our example. Once one cycle is broken, the

entire pathway can start working inefficiently because they are like gears in a

machine.

> 3) Do all confirmed CFS patients have this blockage?

No, not necessarily. The work came originally from the autism community and is

still a little experimental in that community as well. Dr. Yasko continues to

do research on additional genes and does sometimes remove and add genes to the

testing that she does. Some people may be over-methylators and some

under-methylators and figuring this out is not easy but can be done, or just

order the test from Dr. Yasko. The supplements are tailored to your genetic

profile. The Simplified supplements are the ones that (I think) are most needed

by everyone and most critical to remove the methylation block.

> 4) I no longer live in the US, so I cannot get the supplements that are

suggested. What are the main ingredients of the supplements? I can buy them

individually here in Poland.

If you read the post I attached, you will see that Rich describes them all. All

but the vitamin and mineral are single substances. You can also go to the

website of each product/item and read the ingredients list. Basically, Item 1 -

the multi vitamin is a no iron, no copper multi vitamin that has certain

substances already in bio-available form. I do not purchase this item - instead

I use Klaire Labs Vita Spectrum which is a common multi-vitamin for autistic

children.

> 5) Once I have the ingredients, what is the schedule for taking them?

Rich discusses that as well. It is in the post I attached. The schedule

varies per person but tiny amounts are used each day. If the detox becomes too

difficult, you can go to every third day then every other day.

Please read as much as you can about the protocol before beginning. You should

make sure you know how to slow down detox and how to detox safely.

Some links to research:

http://www.dramyyasko.com/methylation-diagram/

http://www.dramyyasko.com/our-unique-approach/methylation-cycle/

http://www.dramyyasko.com/diagrams-listing/

There are two groups that discuss Yasko. The CFS_Yasko group and another

one that I don't have the address that was created about two years ago.

You are welcome to discuss methylation here but long, continued threads are

somewhat discouraged and the conversation should move to one of those groups.

HTH,

Marti

>

>

> Dear Group,

>

> I was on this list a few years ago, before Rich developed his methalation

protocol. So after this long brake I am trying very hard to catch up and as you

will all see I have a lot of reading ahead of me. I have a few questions that I

would somebody to answer:

>

> 1) What is methalation in the first place?

>

> 2) What is the process that is stopping it in the first place?

>

> 3) Do all confirmed CFS patients have this blockage?

>

> 4) I no longer live in the US, so I cannot get the supplements that are

suggested. What are the main ingredients of the supplements? I can buy them

individually here in Poland.

>

> 5) Once I have the ingredients, what is the schedule for taking them?

>

> Thank you all for your help!

>

> Mira S. Ghoshal

>

>

> From: wanda85929@...

> Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 23:52:30 +0000

> Subject: Modified protocol questions

>

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> Hello Group,

>

>

>

> At one time were the supplements Jarrow meth b-12, 5000mcg & B12 infusion by

Enzymatic part of the protocol? If so, why was it changed or were they never

part of it? For some reason I thought this was the correct form and quality of

b-12????

>

>

>

> tia,

>

>

>

> Gail

>

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[Guest guest]

Marti writes:

> If the detox becomes too difficult,

> you can go to every third day then every other day.

I've been experimenting cautiously

with taking 5-methyl-folate and methylB12 liquid,

even though I have only minor genetic and functional deviations

from wildtype/normal for these nutrients.

The detox problems can catch up to you a few days after

beginning; they are not necessarily on the first day or two.

They may be cumulative?

For me it was more a matter of the supps speeding up

Phase I liver detox, which like many others of Euro ancestry

is fast genetically and very fast functionally (99%ile).

My phase II is faster than average overall, both genetically

and functionally, but not fast enough to keep up with phase I.

A faster phase I than II results in toxic intermediates that

can be more toxic than the original substances the body set out

to detox - I wasn't aware of any of this until my late 50s.

So speeding up my phase I is very undesirable for me,

and I backed the 5-methyl-folate down to 200 mcg and methylB12

down to 250 mcg every other day.

I submit that phase I liver detox speed may be part of

(a substantial part in some cases) the " detox " problems people

have commented on over the years.

[Ref: I've made a compilation on the

genetics of phase I and II liver detox, at url below/end.

There are also new compilations on the POMC gene and histamine-

related genes; POMC is upstream of ACTH and affects

glucocorticoid hormones etc.]

Carol W.

willis_protocols

Articles in Files.

[Guest guest]

this is interesting...how would one test to be sure this is happening?

I think genova used to test for a fast phase I and so forth,, but I think they

dropped that test.

>

> Marti writes:

> > If the detox becomes too difficult,

> > you can go to every third day then every other day.

>

>

> I've been experimenting cautiously

> with taking 5-methyl-folate and methylB12 liquid,

> even though I have only minor genetic and functional deviations

> from wildtype/normal for these nutrients.

>

> The detox problems can catch up to you a few days after

> beginning; they are not necessarily on the first day or two.

> They may be cumulative?

> For me it was more a matter of the supps speeding up

> Phase I liver detox, which like many others of Euro ancestry

> is fast genetically and very fast functionally (99%ile).

> My phase II is faster than average overall, both genetically

> and functionally, but not fast enough to keep up with phase I.

> A faster phase I than II results in toxic intermediates that

> can be more toxic than the original substances the body set out

> to detox - I wasn't aware of any of this until my late 50s.

> So speeding up my phase I is very undesirable for me,

> and I backed the 5-methyl-folate down to 200 mcg and methylB12

> down to 250 mcg every other day.

>

> I submit that phase I liver detox speed may be part of

> (a substantial part in some cases) the " detox " problems people

> have commented on over the years.

>

>

>

> [Ref: I've made a compilation on the

> genetics of phase I and II liver detox, at url below/end.

> There are also new compilations on the POMC gene and histamine-

> related genes; POMC is upstream of ACTH and affects

> glucocorticoid hormones etc.]

>

>

> Carol W.

> willis_protocols

> Articles in Files.

>

[Guest guest]

> Hi Carol and L.,

I know that it is not a part of the Genova Diagnostics Metabolic Analysis panel

I had done in 2009. I had a GD Detoxification test done in 1999 which showed

Phase I vs Phase II. It showed actual results not genetic propensities. I had

to take caffeine and another substance and urine showed clearance. Is this the

test you are referring to L.?

I couldn't find it easily on their website. Maybe calling them or emailing

them.

Carol:

> > The detox problems can catch up to you a few days after

> > beginning; they are not necessarily on the first day or two.

> > They may be cumulative?

Yes, they are definitely cumulative. Some people (as reported on CFS_Yasko) can

go 2-3 weeks before it kicks in causing severe detox almost overnight.

That is why the instructions are to start at baby doses or even what will stick

to the end of a toothpick and increasing every 2 weeks.

Most people don't want to start that slowly, though.

> > A faster phase I than II results in toxic intermediates that

> > can be more toxic than the original substances the body set out

> > to detox - I wasn't aware of any of this until my late 50s.

Yes, this is common. I don't have a fast Phase I - it is actually a little

slower than normal but since I became ill, I have a much slower Phase II (slower

than normal and slower than Phase I) causing the same problems.

> > I submit that phase I liver detox speed may be part of

> > (a substantial part in some cases) the " detox " problems people

> > have commented on over the years.

Actually, I think it makes more sense to focus on Phase II. Improving Phase II

is key for most people and doing so safely. Then once that is better, slowly

increasing Phase I.

I am much more successful in my detox protocol by focusing on Phase II and

staying away from all herbs and supplements that increase Phase I. I have never

been able to increase the speed of Phase I without having issues.

Marti

>

> >

> > Marti writes:

> > > If the detox becomes too difficult,

> > > you can go to every third day then every other day.

> >

> >

> > I've been experimenting cautiously

> > with taking 5-methyl-folate and methylB12 liquid,

> > even though I have only minor genetic and functional deviations

> > from wildtype/normal for these nutrients.

> >

> > The detox problems can catch up to you a few days after

> > beginning; they are not necessarily on the first day or two.

> > They may be cumulative?

> > For me it was more a matter of the supps speeding up

> > Phase I liver detox, which like many others of Euro ancestry

> > is fast genetically and very fast functionally (99%ile).

> > My phase II is faster than average overall, both genetically

> > and functionally, but not fast enough to keep up with phase I.

> > A faster phase I than II results in toxic intermediates that

> > can be more toxic than the original substances the body set out

> > to detox - I wasn't aware of any of this until my late 50s.

> > So speeding up my phase I is very undesirable for me,

> > and I backed the 5-methyl-folate down to 200 mcg and methylB12

> > down to 250 mcg every other day.

> >

> > I submit that phase I liver detox speed may be part of

> > (a substantial part in some cases) the " detox " problems people

> > have commented on over the years.

> >

> >

> >

> > [Ref: I've made a compilation on the

> > genetics of phase I and II liver detox, at url below/end.

> > There are also new compilations on the POMC gene and histamine-

> > related genes; POMC is upstream of ACTH and affects

> > glucocorticoid hormones etc.]

> >

> >

> > Carol W.

> > willis_protocols

> > Articles in Files.

> >

>