Guest guest Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Hi Steve, Walking out the door but wanted to respond to this first (and the POTS question later). Yes! This was terrible for me in the beginning! I craving fatty pork chops which I actually hated before I got sick. Yes, I think it has to do with toxin storage - body protection mechanism. I don't have this much now as I am on a whole foods diet. Another thing that it could be is energy. We don't process carbs well usually and the whole insulin thing is off kilter (hormones, etc). Perhaps your body is trying to restore it's energy reserves? Just something to consider. Marti > > I posted this on another group but this particular problem does not seem to affect most of them > > When I fatigue from overwork /can't get enough rest /am in adverse conditions ,(too hot, to cold,high elevations) etc.I get a ravenous appetite for usually high saturated fat foods like bacon, chips, fatty meats. > > Researching this I have concluded tenatively this is what happens. The body gets fatigued and can't expell toxins well , so the body has to do something with the poisons and it increases appetitie to increase fat to have a place to sequester the stuff > > So far anything that helps the body expell bad stuff like coffee retension enemas, moppers saunas etc helps but these solutions only help so much. > > I will say the more the abx beats infection down and whatever else there is the less of a problem this is ,but it's still a problem . Having to much body weight is not healthy and doesn't look good either > > So I have some questions > > Do any of you have this problem of ravenous appetite in response to stressors and if so what do you do about it ? > > Could thiese symptoms be from some other kind of infection/problem? > > This is a real problem for me because extra body weight is not healthy and doesn't look good either > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Interesting thoughts. I find that when I work harder and longer at my cafeteria job, I am hungry for sweets when I get home. I want sugar, ice cream, sodas, etc. I usually try for water and nuts (protein). If I eat before I go to work, especially some form of fruit or protein, I do better, but if I am there 7-8 hours, it is harder and I eat what I am not supposed to eat like lots of bread. I am working less days and less hours this year and I am getting more rest. Last year I was working 6-7 days straight (part-time for 5 days, full-time for 1-2) and it was too hard on my body. in La Selva Beach CA On 4/9/2012 9:13 AM, Steve wrote: > > I posted this on another group but this particular problem does not > seem to affect most of them > > When I fatigue from overwork /can't get enough rest /am in adverse > conditions ,(too hot, to cold,high elevations) etc.I get a ravenous > appetite for usually high saturated fat foods like bacon, chips, fatty > meats. > > Researching this I have concluded tenatively this is what happens. The > body gets fatigued and can't expell toxins well , so the body has to > do something with the poisons and it increases appetitie to increase > fat to have a place to sequester the stuff > > So far anything that helps the body expell bad stuff like coffee > retension enemas, moppers saunas etc helps but these solutions only > help so much. > > I will say the more the abx beats infection down and whatever else > there is the less of a problem this is ,but it's still a problem . > Having to much body weight is not healthy and doesn't look good either > > So I have some questions > > Do any of you have this problem of ravenous appetite in response to > stressors and if so what do you do about it ? > > Could thiese symptoms be from some other kind of infection/problem? > > This is a real problem for me because extra body weight is not healthy > and doesn't look good either > > __. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Letting body rest is a good option if you can do it On Apr 9, 2012, at 10:31 AM, Schmidt wrote: > Interesting thoughts. I find that when I work harder and longer at my > cafeteria job, I am hungry for sweets when I get home. I want sugar, > ice > cream, sodas, etc. I usually try for water and nuts (protein). If I > eat > before I go to work, especially some form of fruit or protein, I do > better, but if I am there 7-8 hours, it is harder and I eat what I am > not supposed to eat like lots of bread. I am working less days and > less > hours this year and I am getting more rest. Last year I was working > 6-7 > days straight (part-time for 5 days, full-time for 1-2) and it was too > hard on my body. > > in La Selva Beach CA > > On 4/9/2012 9:13 AM, Steve wrote: > > > > I posted this on another group but this particular problem does not > > seem to affect most of them > > > > When I fatigue from overwork /can't get enough rest /am in adverse > > conditions ,(too hot, to cold,high elevations) etc.I get a ravenous > > appetite for usually high saturated fat foods like bacon, chips, > fatty > > meats. > > > > Researching this I have concluded tenatively this is what happens. > The > > body gets fatigued and can't expell toxins well , so the body has to > > do something with the poisons and it increases appetitie to increase > > fat to have a place to sequester the stuff > > > > So far anything that helps the body expell bad stuff like coffee > > retension enemas, moppers saunas etc helps but these solutions only > > help so much. > > > > I will say the more the abx beats infection down and whatever else > > there is the less of a problem this is ,but it's still a problem . > > Having to much body weight is not healthy and doesn't look good > either > > > > So I have some questions > > > > Do any of you have this problem of ravenous appetite in response to > > stressors and if so what do you do about it ? > > > > Could thiese symptoms be from some other kind of infection/problem? > > > > This is a real problem for me because extra body weight is not > healthy > > and doesn't look good either > > > > __. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 I have this problem too and struggled with it until I got on the ADA diet after being diagnosed with type II diabetes. Suddenly my go to foods had to change. I had 'permission' to eat as many veggies as I wanted and any time I ate a carb I needed to ear a protein. I also learned that protein converts to carb , just very slowly. So at night when I would get ravenous for carbs/fat or just food in general I started eating a protein, usually nuts or a boiled egg and some carrots. After doing this for about two months I noticed I wasn't getting that crazy carb/fat craving. I still get hungry at night but not the 'I'm gonna eat the fridge' hungry, just the I need to eat a little something before I go to bed urge. Amazing transformation for me. Char On Apr 9, 2012, at 12:13 PM, " Steve " <stangah@...> wrote: > I posted this on another group but this particular problem does not seem to affect most of them > > When I fatigue from overwork /can't get enough rest /am in adverse conditions ,(too hot, to cold,high elevations) etc.I get a ravenous appetite for usually high saturated fat foods like bacon, chips, fatty meats. > > Researching this I have concluded tenatively this is what happens. The body gets fatigued and can't expell toxins well , so the body has to do something with the poisons and it increases appetitie to increase fat to have a place to sequester the stuff > > So far anything that helps the body expell bad stuff like coffee retension enemas, moppers saunas etc helps but these solutions only help so much. > > I will say the more the abx beats infection down and whatever else there is the less of a problem this is ,but it's still a problem . Having to much body weight is not healthy and doesn't look good either > > So I have some questions > > Do any of you have this problem of ravenous appetite in response to stressors and if so what do you do about it ? > > Could thiese symptoms be from some other kind of infection/problem? > > This is a real problem for me because extra body weight is not healthy and doesn't look good either > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Thanks Char On Apr 9, 2012, at 3:11 PM, Chardale Irvine wrote: > I have this problem too and struggled with it until I got on the ADA > diet after being diagnosed with type II diabetes. Suddenly my go to > foods had to change. I had 'permission' to eat as many veggies as I > wanted and any time I ate a carb I needed to ear a protein. I also > learned that protein converts to carb , just very slowly. So at > night when I would get ravenous for carbs/fat or just food in > general I started eating a protein, usually nuts or a boiled egg and > some carrots. After doing this for about two months I noticed I > wasn't getting that crazy carb/fat craving. I still get hungry at > night but not the 'I'm gonna eat the fridge' hungry, just the I need > to eat a little something before I go to bed urge. Amazing > transformation for me. > > Char > > On Apr 9, 2012, at 12:13 PM, " Steve " <stangah@...> wrote: > > > I posted this on another group but this particular problem does > not seem to affect most of them > > > > When I fatigue from overwork /can't get enough rest /am in adverse > conditions ,(too hot, to cold,high elevations) etc.I get a ravenous > appetite for usually high saturated fat foods like bacon, chips, > fatty meats. > > > > Researching this I have concluded tenatively this is what happens. > The body gets fatigued and can't expell toxins well , so the body > has to do something with the poisons and it increases appetitie to > increase fat to have a place to sequester the stuff > > > > So far anything that helps the body expell bad stuff like coffee > retension enemas, moppers saunas etc helps but these solutions only > help so much. > > > > I will say the more the abx beats infection down and whatever else > there is the less of a problem this is ,but it's still a problem . > Having to much body weight is not healthy and doesn't look good either > > > > So I have some questions > > > > Do any of you have this problem of ravenous appetite in response > to stressors and if so what do you do about it ? > > > > Could thiese symptoms be from some other kind of infection/problem? > > > > This is a real problem for me because extra body weight is not > healthy and doesn't look good either > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 <stangah@...> wrote: > > > Do any of you have this problem of ravenous appetite > > > in response to stressors and if so what do you do about it ? High cortisol and related higher glucose (insulin resistance) will raise appetite, and glucose will not be able to get into cells well so the person keeps eating, which compounds the problem. Glucocorticoid meds do this also. See my articles " highcort2 " and " potassium " at url below/end. Carol W. willis_protocols Articles in Files. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Administrator1 <stangah@...> wrote: > > Hi Carol > > I read your article on HighCort2 > It made sense > I am one of those people that before bed I have to eat and have > something sweet > > You mention many supps and some good suggestions > not sure where to begin > > Chromium helps I use a lot of that > Eating a large meal at he beginning of a > day and fasting the rest of > the day helps > Good protein helps too > > Not sure what do to next > > Should I move this discussion to your site? Either low or high cortisol, low or high thyroid, and other low hormones and neurotransmitters, can cause what is a chronic fatigue or exacerbate fatigue from other sources. I have not found sane amounts of chromium supp (up to 200 mcg) to be especially useful in insulin resistance, despite the literature. Just very mildly useful as part of a larger program for reversing insulin resistance. Some people take higher amounts, but I consider those amounts toxic, especially for ongoing use. (I have not found chromium supps to be useful in low cortisol and related hypoglycemic situations, despite the vague marketing literature suggesting chromium can help " regulate blood sugar " or such.) I suggest for you a serum A1C test and a morning fasting glucose test as a next step for a reality check on glucose levels. If you haven't had these tests in the last year, you could use some new ones. See my article " glucose " for more info, at url below/end. You can get these tests from your MD, or there are labs where you can get them on your own paid out of pocket, e.g. directabs.com and many more. You may want to do a quality saliva test of cortisol levels, FOUR samples at specific times of day to look at levels and diurnal rhythm, e.g. www.ZRTlab.com , and you can do this directly without a dr's order. You can also test your reproductive hormones, useful for men if they did have high cortisol and insulin resistance or just for a general reality check. I will email you an additional note. Carol W. willis_protocols Articles in Files. (willis_protocols group is not a discussion group.) > On Apr 10, 2012, at 12:29 AM, cbwillis9 wrote: > > > <stangah@> wrote: > > > > > Do any of you have this problem of ravenous appetite > > > > > in response to stressors and if so what do you > > > > > do about it ? > > > > High cortisol and related higher glucose (insulin resistance) > > will raise appetite, and glucose will not be able to get into > > cells well so the person keeps eating, which compounds the > > problem. Glucocorticoid meds do this also. > > > > See my articles " highcort2 " and " potassium " at url below/end. > > > > Carol W. > > willis_protocols > > Articles in Files. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 " vioverr " <vioverr@...> wrote: > > I tend to get extremely hungry in the afternoon, > especially for sweets (cookies and the like). > Starting after lunch, I experience intense cravings. > (And the more I indulge them, the worse they become. > I can eat a whole cake.) In my case, the cravings > are caused by small intestine bacterial overgrowth (SIBO). > > When the bacteria from the large intestine migrate > into the small intestine, an abnormal fermentation > process takes place. (Dr. Crook attributed this to > yeast overgrowth.) The result is dyspepsia, malaise, > bloating, gas, constipation, IBS, diarrhea, rosacea, > bladder problems, insomnia, depression, and anxiety. > Eventually SIBO produces deficiencies of B vitamins, > zinc and magnesium - all of which are common > deficiencies in CFIDS patients. I would encourage anyone curious about SIBO to get tested, but also to realize that many things can cause these symptoms, some of which can exist concurrently in the same person. So if one had SIBO and addressed it effectively, that may or may not resolve all of the symptoms above. Certainly important to get properly tested so you know what you are, or are not, dealing with. Metametrix lab offers one such test: http://www.metametrix.com/test-menu/profiles/gastrointestinal-function/gi-effect\ s-microbial-ecology Directlabs.com offers several gastrointestinal type tests direct-to-consumer (w/out a Dr's order) --(paid for out of pocket, probably not reimburseable by insurance nor tax deductible if you don't go thru a licensed health practitioner -- but the direct access can be very personally empowering): https://www.directlabs.com/OrderTests/tabid/55/language/en-US/Default.aspx Carol W. willis_protocols Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 I sometime become very hungry, but no matter how much I eat I'm still hungry. I can eat until it's coming back up and I'm still hungry. It's weird. It's not dehydration as I drink a lot of water. Possibly it's H. Pylori.. > > I posted this on another group but this particular problem does not seem to affect most of them > > When I fatigue from overwork /can't get enough rest /am in adverse conditions ,(too hot, to cold,high elevations) etc.I get a ravenous appetite for usually high saturated fat foods like bacon, chips, fatty meats. > > Researching this I have concluded tenatively this is what happens. The body gets fatigued and can't expell toxins well , so the body has to do something with the poisons and it increases appetitie to increase fat to have a place to sequester the stuff > > So far anything that helps the body expell bad stuff like coffee retension enemas, moppers saunas etc helps but these solutions only help so much. > > I will say the more the abx beats infection down and whatever else there is the less of a problem this is ,but it's still a problem . Having to much body weight is not healthy and doesn't look good either > > So I have some questions > > Do any of you have this problem of ravenous appetite in response to stressors and if so what do you do about it ? > > Could thiese symptoms be from some other kind of infection/problem? > > This is a real problem for me because extra body weight is not healthy and doesn't look good either > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Sounds like a major candida problem? God Bless, Sara > > > > I tend to get extremely hungry in the afternoon, > > especially for sweets (cookies and the like). > > Starting after lunch, I experience intense cravings. > > (And the more I indulge them, the worse they become. > > I can eat a whole cake.) In my case, the cravings > > are caused by small intestine bacterial overgrowth (SIBO). > > > > When the bacteria from the large intestine migrate > > into the small intestine, an abnormal fermentation > > process takes place. (Dr. Crook attributed this to > > yeast overgrowth.) The result is dyspepsia, malaise, > > bloating, gas, constipation, IBS, diarrhea, rosacea, > > bladder problems, insomnia, depression, and anxiety. > > Eventually SIBO produces deficiencies of B vitamins, > > zinc and magnesium - all of which are common > > deficiencies in CFIDS patients. > > > I would encourage anyone curious about SIBO to get tested, > but also to realize that many things can cause these symptoms, > some of which can exist concurrently in the same person. > So if one had SIBO and addressed it effectively, that may or > may not resolve all of the symptoms above. Certainly important > to get properly tested so you know what you are, or are not, > dealing with. > > Metametrix lab offers one such test: > http://www.metametrix.com/test-menu/profiles/gastrointestinal-function/gi-effect\ s-microbial-ecology > > > Directlabs.com offers several gastrointestinal type tests > direct-to-consumer (w/out a Dr's order) --(paid for out of pocket, > probably not reimburseable by insurance nor tax deductible > if you don't go thru a licensed health practitioner -- but > the direct access can be very personally empowering): > > https://www.directlabs.com/OrderTests/tabid/55/language/en-US/Default.aspx > > > > > Carol W. > willis_protocols > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 <stangah@...> wrote: > Am I right in saying high cortisol creates insulin resistance ? Cortisol is a GLUCOcorticoid, so high cortisol makes for higher blood sugar, and that can be high cortisol at any time of day, as well as from glucocorticoid meds (which simulate high cortisol in many ways even at " physiologic " amounts). But the chance of insulin resistance tends to go up with aging, especially after about age 50+ when women's estrogen and men's testosterone levels drop. And if a person is obese (BMI>30). Carol W. willis_protocols Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 <stangah@...> wrote: > > Also does chronic illness create high cortisol ? Acute or chronic illness is a STRESS, likewise heat and cold, and the body will make more cortisol if stressed, if the body can. Whether that cortisol becomes high is another question. That's why you have to test cortisol and glucose, so as to get a reality check. Don't just assume or operate out of your " head " . Carol W. willis_protocols Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Hi Char, You discovered by accident what people with hypothyroid and low adrenal function do before bedtime. A small snack with some protein and a little bit of carbs. There is science behind it, it's not psychological. My endo tells me to do this all the time. There are several saliva cortisol tests (the ones that measure cortisol four times a day) that you can order and have sent to your home. They have a doctor on staff to fill out the paperwork. The tests are usually no less than about $100-120. I have not used this company. Obviously, other companies charge more but those sometimes include consultations. https://sttm.mymedlab.com/sttm-profiles/sttm-24-hour-cortisoldhea-4-sample Here is a good website (I know Carol doesn't agree with some/most of it). There are probably some things I don't agree with either. The website is a little passionate but the info is solid. http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/ There are also some good forums, and otherwise, that you can join and learn more. It will not cure your ME/CFIDS but as you suggested, would help your body clear the way for other treatments to be more effective. Don't forget to check the archives for this topic as it has been discussed much over the last ten years. Marti > > > > > > Also does chronic illness create high cortisol ? > > > > Acute or chronic illness is a STRESS, likewise heat and cold, > > and the body will make more cortisol if stressed, > > if the body can. Whether that cortisol > > becomes high is another question. That's why you have to test > > cortisol and glucose, so as to get a reality check. > > Don't just assume or operate out of your " head " . > > > > Carol W. > > willis_protocols > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Chardale Irvine <ch_irv@...> wrote: > > Is there a home test for cortisol levels similar > to blood sugar? I would be interested to know what > my cortisol levels are related to my blood sugar > and also to the timing of my cravings. There are quality saliva tests for cortisol levels in relation to a diurnal reference range, 4 snapshots per day at specified times, e.g. www.zrtlab.com But we dont' have something like a home glucometer that would measure cortisol yet, and if it measured blood then it's measuring mostly-bound hormone and not what's in the tissues as free-fraction hormone. Saliva testing attempts to measure free-fraction hormone in the tissues, yet the saliva testing industry is not yet standardized and I've been watching saliva testing and comparing labs now for several years. Differences in reference ranges with differing background rationale is an additional factor that makes apples to apples comparisons difficult. Further, there are optimals-within-reference range to consider, and differences in background theory about that as well. So testing just got a lot more complicated and probably more than you wanted to know. A lot of people have wanted such a gadget, and we may see a good one that's affordable come around in the next 10 years. > I don't have science explaining why my carb/fat > cravings decreased after replacing that evening > snack with a quality protein and a veggie (after 2 mo) The principle is that protein stabilizes blood sugar. Protein should be spaced thru the day for blood sugar stability. Vegetables are high in potassium, which is more useful for obese, insulin-resistant, and older persons, and non-starchy vegetables are low carb so don't make blood sugar yo-yo. Adding some fat can make for more stability and grounding as well. These principles can be useful for anyone, whether high or low cortisol at different times of day, but high cortisol and insulin resistant persons should usually quit eating after 5-7 pm. Low cortisol person often get into the habit of snacking before bedtime and find that a difficult habit to break after they get older and may become insulin resistant with aging, higher weight, etc. Carol W. willis_protocols Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 " heytrollop " <heytrollop@...> wrote: > > > I sometime become very hungry, but no matter how much > I eat I'm still hungry. I can eat until it's coming > back up and I'm still hungry. It's weird. > It's not dehydration as I drink a lot of water. > Possibly it's H. Pylori.. H.Pylori, ulcers, glucocorticoid meds, high cortisol, insulin resistance, anxiety, avoidance, uncertainty, overwhelm, poor diet/nutrition, etc can all contribute to still feeling hungry. And many of these can apply at the same time. Carol W. willis_protocols Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Hi-- Just my 2 cents on the whole wow, I (HAVE to) have A Little Bit More Please.... Man, and I thought it was just because I've become a really decent cook... Damn! I'm really careful and wary about sweet stuff as I know myself too well. (AND got dreadfully ill a few years back when I had the poor judgment to buy a small packet of Easter Marshmellow Chicks which I GORGED on). And here I am with the low blood sugar and low blood pressure... (Note that the chicks made me so ill I did not feel quite myself for almost 2 weeks). I'll gorge on my lasagne -organic except for the noodles which were store bought. I go to the green market and local stuff for most of my food. Also eat probiotic as much as I am able to put this in my diet. Still .. this tremendous apetite when I really LIKE something I made! Jane, the one with the hound, NYC > > > > Also does chronic illness create high cortisol ? > > > > Acute or chronic illness is a STRESS, likewise heat and cold, > and the body will make more cortisol if stressed, > if the body can. Whether that cortisol > becomes high is another question. That's why you have to test > cortisol and glucose, so as to get a reality check. > Don't just assume or operate out of your " head " . > > > Carol W. > willis_protocols > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Am having the same problem, accompanied with arrythmias. The only test I have not had is insulin resistance, my GP refuses to do it. My face, in particular, my eyelids are extremely puffy, weight gain, and hyPOthyroidism. The latter is untreated because I can't tolerate the meds. My heart went all over the place as shown on EKG. Although, hyPERthyroidism causes extreme hunger pangs, I read on other forums about hyPOthryoid patients suffering extreme hunger pangs, and not finding the root cause. I put myself on a protocol for arrythmias, vits & supps, which has helped, much improved, but still arrythmic. I am also taking a multivitamin. I ordered Concentrace, multi minerals to see if this will help. I am at my wit's end.... > > > > > > I sometime become very hungry, but no matter how much > > I eat I'm still hungry. I can eat until it's coming > > back up and I'm still hungry. It's weird. > > It's not dehydration as I drink a lot of water. > > Possibly it's H. Pylori.. > > > H.Pylori, ulcers, glucocorticoid meds, high cortisol, > insulin resistance, anxiety, avoidance, uncertainty, overwhelm, > poor diet/nutrition, etc can all contribute to still > feeling hungry. And many of these can apply at the same time. > > > Carol W. > willis_protocols > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 " furstc0404 " <furstc0404@...> wrote: > > > Am having the same problem, accompanied with > arrythmias. > > The only test I have not had is insulin resistance, > my GP refuses to do it. Most people have a fasting glucose test within the last year, a good clue for starters. The A1C test is even better. See my article " glucose " for more info, at url below/END. > My face, in particular, my eyelids are extremely puffy, > weight gain, and hyPOthyroidism. The latter is untreated > because I can't tolerate the meds. My heart went all over > the place as shown on EKG. If you are actually hypothyroid and not tolerating meds, need to find out why. If you were started too high and/or raised too fast, this is a common problem, and not tolerating meds would be the wrong conclusion to draw. See my article " thyroid " for more info, at url below/end. Inadequate adrenal support? > Although, hyPERthyroidism causes extreme hunger pangs, > I read on other forums about hyPOthryoid patients suffering > extreme hunger pangs, and not finding the root cause. Lots of things could cause extreme hunger, and arrhythmias. > I put myself on a protocol for arrythmias, vits & supps, > which has helped, much improved, but still arrythmic. > I am also taking a multivitamin. Without details including amounts, this doesn't say anything useful. Many people are taking things that actually aggravate their situation, and they have no idea. Using coconut oil? ashwagandha? kelp? iodine? selenium? tyrosine? etc - these can aggravate thyroid situations. > I ordered Concentrace, multi minerals to see if this will help. These type of multi mineral products with some 72 minerals often have some minerals you don't want, and/or can create some paradoxical weakening effects in some people. Be true to your own experience, and if you feel badly or your teeth hurt from this product, drop it. > I am at my wit's end.... Tests (test, date, lab, result, ref range used), medications and supp details would be useful. Also other substances as noted above. Nothing to go on otherwise. Carol W. willis_protocols Articles in Files. > > H.Pylori, ulcers, glucocorticoid meds, high cortisol, > > insulin resistance, anxiety, avoidance, uncertainty, overwhelm, > > poor diet/nutrition, etc can all contribute to still > > feeling hungry. And many of these can apply at the same time. > > > > > > Carol W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 > > > I ordered Concentrace, multi minerals to see if this will help. > > > These type of multi mineral products with some 72 minerals > often have some minerals you don't want, and/or can create > some paradoxical weakening effects in some people. Be true > to your own experience, and if you feel badly or your teeth > hurt from this product, drop it. \ Hi Carol, Totally agree here. Most trace mineral products include heavy metals such as tin, nickel, mercury, arsenic. I paid good money to chelate these out of my body so I would not take any form of trace mineral product. Having said that, I feel that quality mineral supplements make me feel much better so that is an important piece of the puzzle. Marti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Hi, Steve. In the GD-MCB hypothesis for ME/CFS that I have proposed, the carb resistance is caused by glutathione depletion in the mitochondria, which causes a partial block in aconitase in the Krebs cycle. This can be seen in the results of urine organic acids tests. Since carbs must enter the cycle just upstream of the partial block, they are not readily used for fuel in ME/CFS. The same holds for fats. Protein is the most useful fuel until the glutathione level is restored, because the amino acids from protein can enter the Krebs cycle beyond this partial block. However, it is necessary to have sufficient levels of B2, B6 and biotin in order for this to continue, and many PWMEs go low in these over time. In the long run, methylation treatment will raise glutathione and correct this situation. Best regards, Rich > > > > > > > > I posted this on another group but this particular problem does > > not seem to affect most of them > > > > > > > > When I fatigue from overwork /can't get enough rest /am in > > adverse conditions ,(too hot, to cold,high elevations) etc.I get a > > ravenous appetite for usually high saturated fat foods like bacon, > > chips, fatty meats. > > > > > > > > Researching this I have concluded tenatively this is what > > happens. The body gets fatigued and can't expell toxins well , so > > the body has to do something with the poisons and it increases > > appetitie to increase fat to have a place to sequester the stuff > > > > > > > > So far anything that helps the body expell bad stuff like coffee > > retension enemas, moppers saunas etc helps but these solutions only > > help so much. > > > > > > > > I will say the more the abx beats infection down and whatever > > else there is the less of a problem this is ,but it's still a > > problem . Having to much body weight is not healthy and doesn't look > > good either > > > > > > > > So I have some questions > > > > > > > > Do any of you have this problem of ravenous appetite in response > > to stressors and if so what do you do about it ? > > > > > > > > Could thiese symptoms be from some other kind of infection/ > > problem? > > > > > > > > This is a real problem for me because extra body weight is not > > healthy and doesn't look good either > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 I have noticed many times in the past when I had a ravenous hunger that it went away when I took in enough minerals. I think any hunger is your body telling you it needs some nutrient really really bad. It is just a matter of figuring out what you need and get it in a form that you can assimilate. > > > > > > I ordered Concentrace, multi minerals to see if this will help. > > > > > > These type of multi mineral products with some 72 minerals > > often have some minerals you don't want, and/or can create > > some paradoxical weakening effects in some people. Be true > > to your own experience, and if you feel badly or your teeth > > hurt from this product, drop it. > \ > > Hi Carol, > Totally agree here. Most trace mineral products include heavy metals such as tin, nickel, mercury, arsenic. > > I paid good money to chelate these out of my body so I would not take any form of trace mineral product. > > Having said that, I feel that quality mineral supplements make me feel much better so that is an important piece of the puzzle. > > Marti > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Hi, bel. That's right. They come into the Krebs cycle and form citric acid, and then the citric acid is diverted out of the mitochondria to fatty acid synthesis because of the partial block just beyond citric acid in the cycle. Best regards, Rich > > > > > > > > > > > > I posted this on another group but this particular problem does > > > > not seem to affect most of them > > > > > > > > > > > > When I fatigue from overwork /can't get enough rest /am in > > > > adverse conditions ,(too hot, to cold,high elevations) etc.I get a > > > > ravenous appetite for usually high saturated fat foods like bacon, > > > > chips, fatty meats. > > > > > > > > > > > > Researching this I have concluded tenatively this is what > > > > happens. The body gets fatigued and can't expell toxins well , so > > > > the body has to do something with the poisons and it increases > > > > appetitie to increase fat to have a place to sequester the stuff > > > > > > > > > > > > So far anything that helps the body expell bad stuff like coffee > > > > retension enemas, moppers saunas etc helps but these solutions only > > > > help so much. > > > > > > > > > > > > I will say the more the abx beats infection down and whatever > > > > else there is the less of a problem this is ,but it's still a > > > > problem . Having to much body weight is not healthy and doesn't look > > > > good either > > > > > > > > > > > > So I have some questions > > > > > > > > > > > > Do any of you have this problem of ravenous appetite in response > > > > to stressors and if so what do you do about it ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Could thiese symptoms be from some other kind of infection/ > > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a real problem for me because extra body weight is not > > > > healthy and doesn't look good either > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 Hi, Steve. Four years is a long time. I have some thoughts about why this treatment doesn't help in some cases, which I posted to the PR forum recently. I'll repost it here: Hi, all. I've written the following in order to try to see the " big picture " concerning ME/CFS, in order to focus efforts going forward. These are my own views at present. I of course may be wrong, and I have probably left out some important things. I would appreciate comments. I have taken the liberty of using the royal " we.(:-) My goal with respect to ME/CFS is for everyone who has it to be able to completely recover as soon as possible. I realize that this is a difficult goal to attain, but I believe it's the goal we need to have. So how do we work toward achieving this goal? I believe that we first have to develop an understanding of this disorder, and that this understanding will serve as the basis for developing effective treatment. What aspects to we need to understand? I would say that we need to understand the etiologies (root causes), the pathogenesis (development of the disease process), the fundamental pathophysiology (what's the core mechanism of what's wrong with the way the body is working in this disorder) as well as additional contributions to the pathophysiology due to features that accumulate during the illness after the initial onset, and the symptoms, explained on the basis of the pathophysiology. What do we need to treat? Based on experience up to now, I would say that we need to treat the fundamental pathophysiology, but we also need to treat the etiologies and the additional features that have accumulated. I have learned this the hard way. Again, based on experience up to now, I would say that the fundamental pathophysiology is the same in nearly all cases of ME/CFS, and it involves a chronic vicious circle mechanism that includes depletion of glutathione, a functional deficiency of vitamin B12, a partial block of methionine synthase (which links the methylation cycle with the folate metabolism), and loss of folates from the cells. Essentially everything else in ME/CFS (other than direct effects of pathogens or initial toxins) stems from this vicious circle. This is elaborated in the Swedish seminar here: http://iaomt.media.fnf.nu/2/skovde_2011_me_kroniskt_trotthetssyndrom/$%7Bweburl%\ 7D I believe that the etiologies, on the other hand, differ from one case to another. For the sporadic cases of ME/CFS (as differentiated from the cluster or epidemic cases), there is an inherited genetic predisposition that is not yet well defined, but likely consists of a collection of polymorphisms, the specific ones again differing from one case to another. The coexistence of an inherited genetic predisposition and some combination of a variety of physical, chemical, biological and/or psychological/emotional stressors is the etiology of ME/CFS, in my opinion. This variety of stressors has in common the characteristic that they all place demands on glutathione, and if they are sufficiently severe and long lasting in a person who has the genetic predisposition, it appears that they will produce a large enough depletion of glutathione to set up the chronic vicious circle mechanism that I believe is the core of the pathophysiology of ME/CFS. What are the additional features that can accumulate during the illness? I believe that they are toxins and infections by various pathogens. They accumulate because two of the body's major defense systems, i.e. the immune system and the detoxication system, are rendered dysfunctional by the chronic vicious circle mechanism in the pathophysiology of ME/CFS. Where are we now in terms of treatment of the aspects that must be treated to bring about recovery? I would say that we have a basic understanding of the methylation treatment necessary to overcome the partial methylation cycle block in the pathophysiology, and it has been possible to accomplish this in a majority of PWMEs who have used this treatment. The essential part of the treatment is a combination of a high-dosage of Vitamin B12 (of the order of 2 milligrams per day) given sublingually or by injection, and one or more active (chemically reduced) folates at approximately the RDA for folate (400 to 800 micrograms per day). These two support the methionine synthase reaction, which appears to be partially blocked in ME/CFS. Successful treatment usually also includes other supportive nutrients. However, there are still many who either experience no response from this treatment, or who experience such severe exacerbation of symptoms from it that they are not able to continue it. We need to identify the reasons for these in each case, and treat them effectively. In addition, we have found that in most cases, even though this treatment overcomes the vicious circle mechanism and usually brings significant symptomatic improvement, it is not the complete answer for producing total recovery. There are many who experience improvement in their methylation cycle, folates and glutathione from this treatment, based on repeated lab testing, but their ratio of reduced to oxidized glutathione does not return completely to normal, suggesting that oxidative stress continues to be present. I think this is due to the presence of the original etiologies and/or the additional features that have accumulated. With regard to treating the etiologies and the additional features that accumulate during the illness, I would say that we have had success in some cases, but in many other cases these have not been successfully identified or have not been successfully treated. More work is needed to identify them and to develop treatment for them. What are some possible reasons why a PWME would experience no response from the methylation treatment? One obvious possibility might be that the person does not have the vicious circle mechanism described above. Though this mechanism appears to be fundamental to the pathophysiology of ME/CFS, there may be some people who have similar symptoms but do not have this vicious circle. This is one of the main reasons it is helpful to run the methylation pathways panel (I refer here to the biochemical panel, not the genomic panel with a similar name.) I suspect that another possibility is deficiency in one or more of the essential nutrients for the methylation cycle and related pathways. There are several vitamins, minerals and essential amino acids needed to support this part of the metabolism, and many PWMEs have been found to be deficient in some of them. Those who have hemopyrrollactamuria (HPU) are a subset of this group. Again, testing is available to determine whether there are deficiencies. This includes direct determination of the levels of the nutrients in the blood, measurements of certain enzyme activities that are specific to particular nutrients, and inferring deficiencies from metabolic tests (such as urine organic acids and amino acids in the urine), hair mineral tests, and essential element tests in the urine. The interpretation of hair testing is not simple or straightforward and requires considerable understanding and experience. Testing for HPU is also available. Another possibility is high body burdens of one or more toxic metals, such as mercury, that are capable of blocking enzymes in this part of the metabolism. Testing is available to look for these in urine, blood, feces and hair, and chelation may be needed if the levels of the toxic metals are high. Now, what about those who find this treatment to be intolerable? There are several categories of this. One that is very common is an increase in excitotoxicity when the treatment is started. This involves symptoms such insomnia, anxiety, nervousness, a " wired " feeling and hypersensitivity of the senses. This is likely due to an initial further decrease in glutathione in the astrocyte cells of the brain, as a result of conversion of more of the homocysteine to methionine, so that less is available for supporting glutathione synthesis. Sometimes lowering the dosages at first, especially of Vitamin B12 and the folates, and increasing them slowly over time, is effective. There is also a variety of substances that may help to calm down the excitotoxicity, including GABA, theanine, magnesium, taurine, grape seed extract, pycnogenol, progesterone cream, and Valerian root. Another negative reaction, which is sometimes described as a " toxic " feeling, is probably due to mobilization of toxins by the improved sulfur metabolism, together with the time lag between mobilization and excretion. If the digestive system is not operating well, it may not be able to excrete toxins in the stool very well. If there is low stomach acid, intestinal bacterial dysbiosis, malabsorption, and/or leaky gut syndrome, these may need to be diagnosed with comprehensive stool testing and treated before the methylation protocol can be used. If there is at least one bowel movement per day, the use of various binders may help. These include activated charcoal or modified citrus pectin, which will help to usher toxins from the gut into the stools. Lemon juice (taking care to use a drinking straw and to flush the teeth with water afterward) can help to increase the excretion of some toxins into the urine. Another negative reaction can be caused by development of potassium deficiency. This occurs because as the folates rise in the cells, the cells are able to divide and reproduce more rapidly. Since potassium is the most abundant positive ion inside all cells, this produces a demand for potassium, which is generally low in PWMEs to start with. Symptoms associated with low potassium include heart palpitations and muscle spasms. The blood serum potassium level can be measured with a standard comprehensive blood metabolic panel. Supplementing with potassium supplements or foods high in potassium may help with this. Now, what about the etiologies and additional features that accumulate during the illness? There is a wide variety of possibilities. First, there is ongoing psychological or emotional stress. This may be difficult to avoid because of life circumstances, but it is important to lower this to achieve full recovery, because this will continue to place demands on the HPA axis to secrete cortisol and on the sympathetic nervous system to secrete norepinephrine and epinephrine, which will produce oxidative stress and hence, continuing demands on glutathione. Ongoing exposure to toxins and especially biotoxins (for those who are susceptible), must be eliminated, and as mentioned above, it may be necessary to do chelation or FIR sauna treatments to lower the levels of toxins. There is a variety of pathogens that can serve as etiologies or that can accumulate during the illness. Some of them have ways of hiding from the immune system and thus will need to be dealt with specifically and directly. These may include Lyme disease and its coinfections, intestinal bacterial dysbiosis (as mentioned above) and yeast infection, a variety of viral infections, including enteroviral infections (and possibly retroviral infections), intracellular bacterial infections including mycoplasma, chlamydia and rickettsia, infections involving root canals and cavitations where teeth have been removed, sinus infections, including fungal as well as MARCONS (multiple antibiotic resistant coagulase negative Staphyloccus). Dealing with these infections is perhaps the most difficult aspect of treating ME/CFS. Some PWMEs have histories of many infections during the early part of their lives, before the onset of ME/CFS, suggesting possible genetic deficiencies in their immune systems. Testing for some of them (such as Lyme disease and retroviruses) is not very clearcut at present. Treatments for some of them are not always very effective. This is an area that needs a lot more work. This is the status as I see it today. I would appreciate hearing your thoughts. Best regards, Rich > > > > > > > > > > > > I posted this on another group but this particular problem > > does > > > > not seem to affect most of them > > > > > > > > > > > > When I fatigue from overwork /can't get enough rest /am in > > > > adverse conditions ,(too hot, to cold,high elevations) etc.I get a > > > > ravenous appetite for usually high saturated fat foods like bacon, > > > > chips, fatty meats. > > > > > > > > > > > > Researching this I have concluded tenatively this is what > > > > happens. The body gets fatigued and can't expell toxins well , so > > > > the body has to do something with the poisons and it increases > > > > appetitie to increase fat to have a place to sequester the stuff > > > > > > > > > > > > So far anything that helps the body expell bad stuff like > > coffee > > > > retension enemas, moppers saunas etc helps but these solutions > > only > > > > help so much. > > > > > > > > > > > > I will say the more the abx beats infection down and whatever > > > > else there is the less of a problem this is ,but it's still a > > > > problem . Having to much body weight is not healthy and doesn't > > look > > > > good either > > > > > > > > > > > > So I have some questions > > > > > > > > > > > > Do any of you have this problem of ravenous appetite in > > response > > > > to stressors and if so what do you do about it ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Could thiese symptoms be from some other kind of infection/ > > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a real problem for me because extra body weight is not > > > > healthy and doesn't look good either > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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