Re: Missing stage 3&4 sleep

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Group,

> I'm wondering if any of you have had the same result or similar when

you had your sleep study? And if you did and your doctor actually

noticed it, how are they treating you to compensate?

>

> Chardale Irvine

Hi, Chardale~

I hear your frustration.

My son has lyme and co-infections. He uses a CPAP and it was noticed he

does not hit stage 3-4 sleep. His doc recommended Doxipen. Doxipen is

an old antidepressant. My son is dose sensitive so he put him on the

new Doxipen med that is a lower dose called Silenor.

The first night he took it, he dreamed for the first time in years. He

was on only 3mg. He was supposed to slowly ramp up to 30mg. But it

caused to much daytime fatigue so he has stayed at 3 mg.

Unfortunately, most prescription meds that help with stage 3-4 sleep can

cause weight gain. I believe Lyrica and Remeron also improve the

quality of your sleep. There are other meds as well but I can only

think of those two right now.

Best,

[Guest guest]

Hi Chardale,

I had the exact same thing. My sleep study showed an almost complete abscence

of stage 3 and 4 sleep. Yet the doctor who ordered and read the test

interpreted the results as normal.

I don't understand how a lack of stage 3 & 4 sleep can be normal. When I called

him out on it, he replied that old people (I am 37) have almost no stage 3 or 4

sleep and that it is not considered pathological.

I pointed out that I was not old. He had nothing to reply or add to my

treatment.

I am actually very frustrated by this, as you must be. I know that on the rare

occasion where I have a better night, I feel so much better the following day.

It is one of the things that I would want to correct but can't seem to find

anything that helps.

Yannick

>

> Hi Group,

>

> I was thumbing through my last sleep study from 2010 and discovered something.

This a split study so it took two nights. Both nights I showed only stage 1, 2

and 5 (rem) sleep. 3 and 4 never happened. I did a little research and found

that these are the restorative phases of sleep when the immune system is

activated and growth hormone is released which repairs cells. I am just a little

(understatement) angry that a minimum of 8 doctors in 3 states have seen that

study and not noticed that.

>

> I'm wondering if any of you have had the same result or similar when you had

your sleep study? And if you did and your doctor actually noticed it, how are

they treating you to compensate?

>

> Chardale Irvine

>

[Guest guest]

On 4/27/2012 3:21 AM, Chardale Irvine wrote:

> I was thumbing through my last sleep study from 2010 and discovered something.

This a split study so it took two nights. Both nights I showed only stage 1, 2

and 5 (rem) sleep. 3 and 4 never happened. I did a little research and found

that these are the restorative phases of sleep when the immune system is

activated and growth hormone is released which repairs cells. I am just a little

(understatement) angry that a minimum of 8 doctors in 3 states have seen that

study and not noticed that.

Just something you may want to consider: If you live in a house with a

Smart Meter or live within 30 feet of one, it will affect your sleep.

Current researchers are deeply concerned that since RF radiation has ill

effects on the brain that these are the stages that will be badly affected.

Same goes for any wi-fi devices in your home, baby monitors, cordless

phones, tablet computers, etc. The best treatment is to get rid of as

much RF radiation as possible. Most doctors haven't got a clue about RF

radiation. I've been studying the issue for over a year now. As an

ex-medical professional, I become more and more concerned over this issue.

RF radiation increases nitric oxide, increases lipid peroxidation,

decreases glutathione (all of which upregulates the NO/ONOO- cycle),

alters 143 brain proteins, causes oxidative stress and injury in major

organs, and breaks down the blood-barrier, all of which make CFS worse.

One of the biggest complaints with RF radiation is sleep disturbance and

insomnia.

Jeri <teewinot13@...>

@>--->---->-------------------<----<---<@

Dr. Pall's NO/ONOO- Theory/Treatment Discussion Group:

TenthParadigmSociety

@>----------<---------->-----------------------<----------<----------<@

The Tenth Paradigm - Dr. Pall's Website for CFS/MCS/FM/ETC.:

http://www.thetenthparadigm.org

@>----------<---------->-----------------------<----------<----------<@

MCS-Florida - For All Chemically Sensitive Floridians

MCS-Florida

[Guest guest]

I have had polysomnography and they found alpha intrusion into delta

sleep. They also found both obstructive and central apneas (I was

slim) and (moronically because it was obvious) reversed circadian

phase.

Alpha intrusion into delta sleep and reversed circadian phase are

known in the disease. CCC mentions the latter; I have heard of the

former in several places.

Most doctors have zero idea about that whatsoever.

Seeing studies and not noticing them is part of the sociology of the

disease. It is classic misopathy.

Hope that helps.

--

The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Chardale,

My sleep analysis showed I woke up a hundred and two times! As in your case my

doctor, the one who ordered the test, decided not to prescribe anything, or even

mention it again.

A couple things which may be relevant to your situation are the following. I've

noticed when I'm particularly EMF sensitive I'm unable to fall into a deep

sleep, by this I mean I'm unable to leave the dream realm. It's an especially

bizarre experience, maybe you've had something similar, but I seem to dream the

entire night. I've always thought that in such instances I'm unable to get into

stages 3 and 4.

The other thing I'll bring up is the fact that many of the sleep aids don't

really help people achieve stages 3 and 4. Perhaps the only one that does is

Xyrem (GHB). I don't like to push pharmaceuticals but this is one of the better

drugs I've come across, and not just for sleeping, but for its

anti-excitotoxicity/energy boosting effects, as well as mood improvement. It is

habit forming, but the developed tolerance is nowhere near that of

benzodiadepines. They absolutely need a cheaper pharmaceutical alternative to

Xyrem as I think the drug could probably help a lot of people sick with

neuro-immune diseases.

Graeme

From: ch_irv@...

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 03:21:38 -0400

Subject: Missing stage 3 & 4 sleep

Hi Group,

I was thumbing through my last sleep study from 2010 and discovered something.

This a split study so it took two nights. Both nights I showed only stage 1, 2

and 5 (rem) sleep. 3 and 4 never happened. I did a little research and found

that these are the restorative phases of sleep when the immune system is

activated and growth hormone is released which repairs cells. I am just a little

(understatement) angry that a minimum of 8 doctors in 3 states have seen that

study and not noticed that.

I'm wondering if any of you have had the same result or similar when you had

your sleep study? And if you did and your doctor actually noticed it, how are

they treating you to compensate?

Chardale Irvine

[Guest guest]

I, too, don't get much stage 3 and 4 sleep, even with a CPAP machine and use of

the hardest to get sleep medicine in the US. The sleep doctor doesn't know

anything else to do for me.

I'm sure this plays a role in my fatigue.

I just joined so for background - dx Fibro in 1999, dx Sjogren's just 2 months

ago. Stopped working even part-time Jan. 2010 and have applied for SS

disability.

>

> Hi Group,

>

> I was thumbing through my last sleep study from 2010 and discovered something.

This a split study so it took two nights. Both nights I showed only stage 1, 2

and 5 (rem) sleep. 3 and 4 never happened. I did a little research and found

that these are the restorative phases of sleep when the immune system is

activated and growth hormone is released which repairs cells. I am just a little

(understatement) angry that a minimum of 8 doctors in 3 states have seen that

study and not noticed that.

>

> I'm wondering if any of you have had the same result or similar when you had

your sleep study? And if you did and your doctor actually noticed it, how are

they treating you to compensate?

>

> Chardale Irvine

>

[Guest guest]

I have been on 1mg of Klonopin and 5 mg of liquid sinequan (doxepin) for years

and that has allowed me to sleep for at least the last 12 years. I remember

going for years without any dreaming.

> >

> > Hi Group,

> >

> > I was thumbing through my last sleep study from 2010 and discovered

something. This a split study so it took two nights. Both nights I showed only

stage 1, 2 and 5 (rem) sleep. 3 and 4 never happened. I did a little research

and found that these are the restorative phases of sleep when the immune system

is activated and growth hormone is released which repairs cells. I am just a

little (understatement) angry that a minimum of 8 doctors in 3 states have seen

that study and not noticed that.

> >

> > I'm wondering if any of you have had the same result or similar when you had

your sleep study? And if you did and your doctor actually noticed it, how are

they treating you to compensate?

> >

> > Chardale Irvine

> >

>

[Guest guest]

It seems doxepin is a commonly prescribed med for Cfs, which I hadn't realized.

I was on it for two years to treat severe migraines and it completely eliminated

them. I had to go off all psychotropic meds because I developed tardive

dyskinesia, a permanent side effect that can occur from longtime use of

psychotropic meds. It causes involuntary movement-for me restless leg and arm

and then involuntary tongue movement.

I also was on klonipin for years but developed tolerance. Even still neither

drug or when they were combined made me sleep or even sleepy.

I'm glad doxepin is working for you and for several others who are having

success with it.

Char

On Apr 29, 2012, at 12:49 PM, " Subdr " <taxdoc@...> wrote:

> I have been on 1mg of Klonopin and 5 mg of liquid sinequan (doxepin) for years

and that has allowed me to sleep for at least the last 12 years. I remember

going for years without any dreaming.

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Hi Group,

> > >

> > > I was thumbing through my last sleep study from 2010 and discovered

something. This a split study so it took two nights. Both nights I showed only

stage 1, 2 and 5 (rem) sleep. 3 and 4 never happened. I did a little research

and found that these are the restorative phases of sleep when the immune system

is activated and growth hormone is released which repairs cells. I am just a

little (understatement) angry that a minimum of 8 doctors in 3 states have seen

that study and not noticed that.

> > >

> > > I'm wondering if any of you have had the same result or similar when you

had your sleep study? And if you did and your doctor actually noticed it, how

are they treating you to compensate?

> > >

> > > Chardale Irvine

> > >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

{Moderator: Please google simple questions:

GENERIC NAME: doxepin

BRAND NAME: Sinequan, Adapin

DRUG CLASS AND MECHANISM: Doxepin belongs to a class of drugs called tricyclic

antidepressants (TCAs) that are used primarily to treat depression and anxiety.

Other examples of TCAs include amitriptyline (Elavil), nortriptyline (Pamelor),

desipramine (Norpramin), and several others. Depression is an all-pervasive

sense of sadness and gloom. In some patients with depression, an imbalance in

levels of neurotransmitters in the brain may be the cause of the depression.

Neurotransmitters are chemicals that nerves use to communicate with each other.

Neurotransmitters affected by doxepin include serotonin, norepinephrine,

acetylcholine, and histamine. Doxepin may elevate mood by raising the levels of

serotonin and norepinephrine. It also blocks the activity of acetylcholine and

histamine. The FDA approved doxepin in March 1974.

}

What is Liquid sinequan?

On Apr 29, 2012, at 9:49 AM, Subdr wrote:

> I have been on 1mg of Klonopin and 5 mg of liquid sinequan (doxepin)

> for years and that has allowed me to sleep for at least the last 12

> years. I remember going for years without any dreaming.

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Hi Group,

> > >

> > > I was thumbing through my last sleep study from 2010 and

> discovered something. This a split study so it took two nights. Both

> nights I showed only stage 1, 2 and 5 (rem) sleep. 3 and 4 never

> happened. I did a little research and found that these are the

> restorative phases of sleep when the immune system is activated and

> growth hormone is released which repairs cells. I am just a little

> (understatement) angry that a minimum of 8 doctors in 3 states have

> seen that study and not noticed that.

> > >

> > > I'm wondering if any of you have had the same result or similar

> when you had your sleep study? And if you did and your doctor

> actually noticed it, how are they treating you to compensate?

> > >

> > > Chardale Irvine

> > >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

I also didnt have phase 3 and 4 much and dr told me my results were " bizarre "

including a day sleep study after the night study which showed somthing simlar

to narcoepsy/ where I go into REM after only 7 minutes for a nap.