Guest guest Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Hello everyone, As we've discussed in the past, I've had considerable luck cleaning what I perceive to be toxins, out of certain items using plain old rubbing alcohol; i.e., clothing, draperies, bedding, rugs, plastics, glass, formica, wood, leather (?-jury is still out). I've been using a 12-hour soak method, and having pretty good results. I've researched/compiled the following info about the solubility of toxins which kind of backs up my experience (although this list is not all inclusive, and nowhere near complete) - my disclaimer - ). Do we have any chemists/experts out there who can better translate the following info? Still having trouble cleaning my car, after repeated sprays with alcohol and ozone treatments. Not sure whether this is due to the HVAC unit being contaminated, or the thickness of the upholstery, although I did run the AC for a number of hours while using the ozone generator. An additional disclaimer... all of my belongings that were in my mold house, and which may have been exposed to mold spores, are in storage. This is another problem entirely, to be dealt with sometime in the distant future. TOXINS Aflatoxin (Aspergillus) soluble in methanol, acetone, and chloroform, but only slightly soluble in water and hydrocarbon solvents. Satratoxin (Stachybotrys) soluble in lower alcohols and polar solvents including methanol, ethanol, isopropanol, propylene glycol, acetone, ethyl acetate, chloroform, dimethyl sulfoxide. Tricothecenes (Stachy) highly soluble in ethanol, methanol, and propylene glycol. Macrocyclic tricothecenes (Stachybotrys atra, Fusarium) Group A (Including T-2): acetone, ethyl acetate,methylene chloride, diethyl ether. Group B (Including vomitoxin): methanol, acetonitril, ethanol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Jules, How much alcohol do you add to how much water? ----- Original Message ----- From: " julesblucky " <julesblucky@...> > Hello everyone, > As we've discussed in the past, I've had considerable luck cleaning > what I perceive to be toxins, out of certain items using plain old > rubbing alcohol; i.e., clothing, draperies, bedding, rugs, plastics, > glass, formica, wood, leather (?-jury is still out). I've been > using a 12-hour soak method, and having pretty good results. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Hi Barb, It varies, but for overnight soaking, I'm using about a pint alcohol in a sink/large bucket of water. Also using it straight for cleaning off surfaces and spraying down things I'm really reacting to. Be sure to protect yourself from the fumes (mask/open windows/fans), but they disperse quickly. Jules > Jules, > How much alcohol do you add to how much water? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: " julesblucky " <julesblucky@y...> > > > Hello everyone, > > As we've discussed in the past, I've had considerable luck cleaning > > what I perceive to be toxins, out of certain items using plain old > > rubbing alcohol; i.e., clothing, draperies, bedding, rugs, plastics, > > glass, formica, wood, leather (?-jury is still out). I've been > > using a 12-hour soak method, and having pretty good results. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Barb, I found these posts on the board from Dr. Lipsey (Toxicologist) from 2001/2003 regarding alcohol/other disinfectants. Old news, but we'll take what we can get, right? And it substantiates my " perceptions " which is a good thing ) . Stachy seems to be my primary external enemy...the internal enemy has yet to be determined, as it came from a different environment, but I figure if I can keep my external world somewhat quiet, the internal world may quiet down a bit in response, in time. Perhaps, someday, someone, somehow, will figure out what the internal enemy is and I'll be cured. Hope this helps you! Jules Novemder, 2003 - - - - I JUST RETURNED FROM CHINA ..............SORRY FOR THE DELAY Bleach does kill most mold, but is not effective for Stachybotrys, but isopropyl alcohol will kill it. UV light is also good. Dr. L. Lipsey Professor and Toxicologist University of North Florida, ---OSHA HazMat Cert. U. of Florida Med. Ctr, Jax Poison Control Center Board CV--Toxicology And Environmental Health Assoc. 2001 - - - - The latest textbook on the subject ( by Murray et al, 2002 ) states that there are several good disinfectants with germicidal properties, ie isopropyl alcohol, hydrogen peroxide, chlorine, formaldehyde and gluteraldehyde that kill bacteria and mold at varying concentrations for each, ie about 80% of rubbing alcohol but only 2% for gluteraldehyde, ........ But remember, hydrogen peroxide takes the color out of some items and gluteraldehyde and formaldehyde are both highly toxic and I have had many lawsuits as an expert witness with those biocides. But, to sterilize items to kill mold, bacteria and bacterial spores, you need a sterilizing agent, ie UV, or chlorine dioxide gas, or ethylene oxide or formaldehyde or peracetic acid, etc. Chlorine has not been shown to be effective against Stachybotrys spores. Rubbing alcohol is effective against some fungi, but have no activity against bacterial spores. Bleach is a good germicide, but it depends on the organic matter and pH of the items being disinfected, ie alkaline detergents high organic matter reduces the effectiveness of chlorine as a germicide. Dr. L. Lipsey Professor and Toxicologist University of North Florida U. of Florida Med. Ctr, Jax Poison Control Center Board CV--Toxicology And Environmental Health Assoc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Wheeeee Hoooo !!! I am glad I read this - I've been taking a spray bottle of alcohol everywhere I go and it seems to be helping ! My house/car/whatever might smell a little like a hospital ward for a few moments but I don't care ! I've felt better since doing this. Thanks for posting this. [] Re: Solubility of Toxins > Barb, > I found these posts on the board from Dr. Lipsey (Toxicologist) from > 2001/2003 regarding alcohol/other disinfectants. > > Old news, but we'll take what we can get, right? And it > substantiates my " perceptions " which is a good thing ) . > > Stachy seems to be my primary external enemy...the internal enemy > has yet to be determined, as it came from a different environment, > but I figure if I can keep my external world somewhat quiet, the > internal world may quiet down a bit in response, in time. Perhaps, > someday, someone, somehow, will figure out what the internal enemy > is and I'll be cured. > > Hope this helps you! > > Jules > > > Novemder, 2003 - - - - > > I JUST RETURNED FROM CHINA ..............SORRY FOR THE DELAY > > Bleach does kill most mold, but is not effective for Stachybotrys, > but isopropyl alcohol will kill it. UV light is also good. > > Dr. L. Lipsey > Professor and Toxicologist > University of North Florida, > ---OSHA HazMat Cert. > U. of Florida Med. Ctr, Jax > Poison Control Center Board > CV--Toxicology And Environmental Health Assoc. > > > 2001 - - - - > > The latest textbook on the subject ( by Murray et al, 2002 ) states > that there are several good disinfectants with germicidal > properties, ie isopropyl alcohol, hydrogen peroxide, chlorine, > formaldehyde and gluteraldehyde that kill bacteria and mold at > varying concentrations for each, ie about 80% of rubbing alcohol but > only 2% for gluteraldehyde, ........ > > But remember, hydrogen peroxide takes the color out of some > items and gluteraldehyde and formaldehyde are both highly toxic and > I have had many lawsuits as an expert witness with those biocides. > > But, to sterilize items to kill mold, bacteria and bacterial > spores, you need a sterilizing agent, ie UV, or chlorine dioxide > gas, or ethylene oxide or formaldehyde or peracetic acid, etc. > > Chlorine has not been shown to be effective against Stachybotrys > spores. Rubbing alcohol is effective against some fungi, but have no > activity against bacterial spores. Bleach is a good germicide, but > it depends on the organic matter and pH of the items being > disinfected, ie alkaline detergents high organic matter reduces the > effectiveness of chlorine as a germicide. > > Dr. L. Lipsey > Professor and Toxicologist > University of North Florida > U. of Florida Med. Ctr, Jax > Poison Control Center Board > CV--Toxicology And Environmental Health Assoc. > > > > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE: > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 I am glad that this willhelp you...but, I have one concern...what about those people who are chemically injured and sensitive to synthetic alcohols etc? I personally have no problem with isopropyl alcohol, I carry a bottle in my car to remove alocohol based fragrances/handcreams that I pick up from shopping carts etc. But my best friend literally collapses when I come near her even after washing the alcohol off As the old agade goes...if it's not one thing...it's another Angel On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 moldhelp@... wrote: > Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 21:23:22 -0700 > From: moldhelp@... > Reply- > > Subject: Re: [] Re: Solubility of Toxins > > Wheeeee Hoooo !!! > > I am glad I read this - I've been taking a spray bottle of alcohol > everywhere I go and it seems to be helping ! > > My house/car/whatever might smell a little like a hospital ward for a few > moments but I don't care ! > I've felt better since doing this. > > Thanks for posting this. > > [] Re: Solubility of Toxins > > >> Barb, >> I found these posts on the board from Dr. Lipsey (Toxicologist) from >> 2001/2003 regarding alcohol/other disinfectants. >> >> Old news, but we'll take what we can get, right? And it >> substantiates my " perceptions " which is a good thing ) . >> >> Stachy seems to be my primary external enemy...the internal enemy >> has yet to be determined, as it came from a different environment, >> but I figure if I can keep my external world somewhat quiet, the >> internal world may quiet down a bit in response, in time. Perhaps, >> someday, someone, somehow, will figure out what the internal enemy >> is and I'll be cured. >> >> Hope this helps you! >> >> Jules >> >> >> Novemder, 2003 - - - - >> >> I JUST RETURNED FROM CHINA ..............SORRY FOR THE DELAY >> >> Bleach does kill most mold, but is not effective for Stachybotrys, >> but isopropyl alcohol will kill it. UV light is also good. >> >> Dr. L. Lipsey >> Professor and Toxicologist >> University of North Florida, >> ---OSHA HazMat Cert. >> U. of Florida Med. Ctr, Jax >> Poison Control Center Board >> CV--Toxicology And Environmental Health Assoc. >> >> >> 2001 - - - - >> >> The latest textbook on the subject ( by Murray et al, 2002 ) states >> that there are several good disinfectants with germicidal >> properties, ie isopropyl alcohol, hydrogen peroxide, chlorine, >> formaldehyde and gluteraldehyde that kill bacteria and mold at >> varying concentrations for each, ie about 80% of rubbing alcohol but >> only 2% for gluteraldehyde, ........ >> >> But remember, hydrogen peroxide takes the color out of some >> items and gluteraldehyde and formaldehyde are both highly toxic and >> I have had many lawsuits as an expert witness with those biocides. >> >> But, to sterilize items to kill mold, bacteria and bacterial >> spores, you need a sterilizing agent, ie UV, or chlorine dioxide >> gas, or ethylene oxide or formaldehyde or peracetic acid, etc. >> >> Chlorine has not been shown to be effective against Stachybotrys >> spores. Rubbing alcohol is effective against some fungi, but have no >> activity against bacterial spores. Bleach is a good germicide, but >> it depends on the organic matter and pH of the items being >> disinfected, ie alkaline detergents high organic matter reduces the >> effectiveness of chlorine as a germicide. >> >> Dr. L. Lipsey >> Professor and Toxicologist >> University of North Florida >> U. of Florida Med. Ctr, Jax >> Poison Control Center Board >> CV--Toxicology And Environmental Health Assoc. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> FAIR USE NOTICE: >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Jules, Is this for 'one time' cleaning of certain items? For routine cleaning, it seems the cost would be prohibitive. Yes, I've worked with rubbing alcohol before. It can really do damage to your lungs, so definately mask. Does mask work for alcohol fumes? It seems like gaseous things might go through a mask unless you would use charcoal mask like Rose. I guess you'd also want to use mask because it you dissolve mycotoxins, you might be breathing those in with alcohol fumes. It's a difficult thing to figure out. I wish someone would do experiments on this to determine how to remove mycotoxins from air and material safely. I don't picture mycotoxins lying around on surfaces but rather like a gas, mixed with air. I guess water of wash would carry toxins mixed with alcohol out in laundry water. Since air would flow through fabrics, I can see toxins perhaps clinging to cloth fibers. As for countertops, I'd be surprised surface would be coated my mycotoxins, but rather bacteria and fungii. I think vapor cleaner Jeff mentioned would do a better job for countertops and safer for your lungs, especially people whose lungs have already taken a beating by mold. ----- Original Message ----- From: " julesblucky " <julesblucky@...> > Hi Barb, > It varies, but for overnight soaking, I'm using about a pint alcohol > in a sink/large bucket of water. Also using it straight for cleaning > off surfaces and spraying down things I'm really reacting to. > > Be sure to protect yourself from the fumes (mask/open windows/fans), > but they disperse quickly. > > Jules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 I only use this method on objects I am reacting to...currently struggling with cross-contamination issues, so yes, it is a one-time solution. Regular detergent hasn't worked for me in trying to get mycotoxins out of clothing, nor have many other things I've tried including vinegar, borax, bleach, yogurt (that's desperate!), dry cleaning, ozone dry cleaning, .... Although I'm not sure I've tried dry cleaning for mycotoxins only. Good point about breathing the mycotoxins as they are released during the soak, hadn't thought about that. So a heavy duty vapor mask is probably the best bet, or hold your breath and leave the room. I'm currently using my bathroom shower stall as the decontamination chamber, so I can shut the shower door, and the bathroom door. I do have to go back and clean it afterwards. I think avoiding creating an airborne alcohol spray is an excellent idea. I tend to use disposable wipes (even paper towels) or soaks, but I do occasionally spray. I'm not sure what to recommend if someone is chemical sensitive. For me, alcohol seems to be the least offensive chemical I have tried, and vinegar didn't work for me. My experience tells me the mycotoxins are airborne, but settle in anything absorbent, similar to smoke. They also seem to absorb somewhat into other less porous surfaces, which is why I recommend an alcohol wipe. Not sure if it's spores settling on surfaces (and I'm not just refering to horizontal surfaces), or mycotoxin absorbing into surfaces. Jules > Jules, > Is this for 'one time' cleaning of certain items? For routine cleaning, it > seems the cost would be prohibitive. > Yes, I've worked with rubbing alcohol before. It can really do damage to > your lungs, so definately mask. Does mask work for alcohol fumes? It seems > like gaseous things might go through a mask unless you would use charcoal > mask like Rose. I guess you'd also want to use mask because it you dissolve > mycotoxins, you might be breathing those in with alcohol fumes. It's a > difficult thing to figure out. I wish someone would do experiments on this > to determine how to remove mycotoxins from air and material safely. I don't > picture mycotoxins lying around on surfaces but rather like a gas, mixed > with air. I guess water of wash would carry toxins mixed with alcohol out in > laundry water. Since air would flow through fabrics, I can see toxins > perhaps clinging to cloth fibers. As for countertops, I'd be surprised > surface would be coated my mycotoxins, but rather bacteria and fungii. I > think vapor cleaner Jeff mentioned would do a better job for countertops and > safer for your lungs, especially people whose lungs have already taken a > beating by mold. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: " julesblucky " <julesblucky@y...> > > > > Hi Barb, > > It varies, but for overnight soaking, I'm using about a pint alcohol > > in a sink/large bucket of water. Also using it straight for cleaning > > off surfaces and spraying down things I'm really reacting to. > > > > Be sure to protect yourself from the fumes (mask/open windows/fans), > > but they disperse quickly. > > > > Jules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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