Re: Improbable cause of chronic fatigue syndrome...mycoplasma

[Guest guest]

Yes, Causation is complex and their are multiple cases. In general, go with the

terrain theory of infection: the body as the terrain must be weak first for

pathogens to take hold. And you cannot kill the pathogens and have the treatment

hold without correcting the terrain and strengthening the immune system.

The strongest overall correlations that weaken the terrain are toxicity and

declining nutrition, along with deep rooted stress often from childhood trauma

and patters that lowers the immune system.

In any case, the whole body and often the emotions have to be treated with a

broad spectrum approach to improve everything because the body is only as strong

as its weakest link.

[Guest guest]

Dear

I am disquieted by your certitude. I really think you'd do well to acquaint

yourself with Santayana.

I have little respect for the CDC but in this instance, their forthright

evaluation of the issue probably reflects reality more so than anything else

I've come across http://www.cdc.gov/cfs/general/causes/

If you have anything more than mere speculation to support your position, I

for one, would gladly be enlightened.

I realise that Pasteur's deathbed recantation was significant, but in terms

of today's knowledge, just how significant remains to be seen.

You are making an unsupported assumption that infection is critical to the

process. I'm sure I can dig up more than a handful of peer-reviewed papers

which would call this into question.

You also seem to be inferring that CFS is a disease/syndrome/ disorder of

modern times. I suspect a more rational reading of historical literature

might suggest otherwise.

It's interesting that you suggest that CFS is a disorder of lowered immune

system (whatever that means). I think there might be just a tad of info

that is suggestive of an exaggerated immune response which includes

overactivity and auto-immune responses.

Pragmatically, your final statement is as confused as you are.

Regards

R

Re: " Improbable cause of chronic fatigue

syndrome...mycoplasma "

> Yes, Causation is complex and their are multiple cases. In general, go

> with the terrain theory of infection: the body as the terrain must be weak

> first for pathogens to take hold. And you cannot kill the pathogens and

> have the treatment hold without correcting the terrain and strengthening

> the immune system.

>

> The strongest overall correlations that weaken the terrain are toxicity

> and declining nutrition, along with deep rooted stress often from

> childhood trauma and patters that lowers the immune system.

>

> In any case, the whole body and often the emotions have to be treated with

> a broad spectrum approach to improve everything because the body is only

> as strong as its weakest link.

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

> other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

> discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Hess <bmfb@...> wrote:

> The strongest overall correlations that weaken the terrain

> are toxicity and declining nutrition,

I would add to this non-optimized hormones and leaky gut

(gluten, whole wheat lectins etc).

Carol W.

willis_protocols

> along with deep

> rooted stress often from childhood trauma and patters

> that lowers the immune system.

>

> In any case, the whole body and often the emotions have

> to be treated with a broad spectrum approach to improve

> everything because the body is only as strong as its weakest link.

[Guest guest]

{Moderator: I believe the subject was changed as a statement of disagreement.

The " Re: " is in the subject line because someone probably responded using email

rather than web.}

This thread started, as far as I know, as an offshoot of

lemonfoundation's " Probable " thread. Yet it was changed to say

" Improbable " . Why?

Despite being changed, and despite, as far as I can tell not having a

parent, it has " Re: " in it. Why?

[Guest guest]

[cbwillis:]

>> ... low hormones and leaky gut (gluten and whole wheat lectin

>> especially)

Laidback <bmfb@...> wrote:

>

> The things that you mention are very important, but they

> are effects, not root causes. They are in a different

> conceptual category. If you have toxicity, malnutrition,

> and deep rooted stress, you are likely to have low

> hormones and a weak gut that can be permeated by fungal

> forms of candida when the terrain is all screwed up with

> sugar and acidity that are aspects of bad nutrition.

Leaky gut fosters allergies and autoimmunity, with related low

hormones (especially the very common Hashimoto's autoimmune

thyroiditis resuling in hypothyroid). Low hormones, especially

cortisol and thyroid, can be present in childhood and the

teen years, fostering a chronic fatigue and deranging immunity.

I wasn't discounting toxicity, malnutrition, and deep rooted

stress, rather the intention was to round out the picture.

I would argue for low hormones and leaky gut being potentially

root-causative in many cases, and sometimes pre-dating or

occuring concurrently in time with various toxicities,

malnutrition, and deep rooted stress, etc.

We also need to look at how severe a cause was, what were it's

effects, how long different causes went on,

how much of a permanent negative effect a cause may have (or not),

and if some can be later corrected, corrected to what extent, etc.

Causation, system perturbation, robustness and resilience --

all very interesting if you like to think about systems.

Carol W.

willis_protocols

[Guest guest]

Hess <bmfb@...> wrote:

>

> Carol,

> What causes low hormones and leaky gut? Do they spontaneously appear?

>

Sometimes low hormones are genetic, other times the result of

autoimmune diseases or aging, lifestyle excesses resulting in

burnout. In the case of low cortisol,

longterm stress where the adrenals could not keep up, or

self-imposed stress such as overtraining in endurance aerobic

exercise. Some of the worst cases of adrenal fatigue I've seen

have been runners. And recently persons in their 20s who

lived a very wild life in their college years, lots of alcohol,

late nights, all nighters, dissipation of energies, etc.

Leaky gut can be caused by antibiotic use or over-use, especially

if nothing is done to restore friendly bacteria, longterm

aspirin or NSAID use, glucocorticoid use,

stronger food sensitivities and lectins.

See my article " leakygut " for more info, url below/end.

Carol W.

willis_protocols

Articles in Files.

[Guest guest]

Hess <bmfb@...> wrote:

>

> Carol,

> What causes low hormones and leaky gut? Do they spontaneously appear?

>

I forgot to answer the 2nd half of your question.

Sometimes low hormones can spontaneously appear, other times

it's gradual, or lifelong to some degree or other.

Low hormones are a question of degree, and a person can feel

badly for years but still be somewhat functional, then hit a wall

where they can't do much of anything they used to.

Leaky gut can manifest in eczema or other allergic tendencies,

autoimmume tendencies slowly building, low energy, intestinal

symptoms, for years before someone might connect the dots or

situations reach a crisis.

Carol W.

willis_protocols