Re: What product is more effective than bleach for clothes and furniture?

[Guest guest]

I have used shockwave, and shockwave with very strong peroxide, in

attempts to de-contaminate my variouse furnishings, the different

mixtures have not worked. the mycotoxins do not seem to be affected

by anything that I have tried on large objects, smaller objects that

can be cleaned or soaked seem to fair OK for me- such as telephones,

but anything larger- TV, computer, desks, chairs- forget it- I pity

you- please get your parents to read this and allow you to throw

those things out- or sell them. Avoidence is the only way to get

your own immune system to calm down

--- In , " Branislav " <arealis@g...>

wrote:

> I would like to know if anyone here has had the first-hand

experience

> with that anti-mold preparation called " Shockwave " or some similar

> Mildewcide / fungicide specialized for both porous and non-porous

> surfaces, and which is advertised as being superior to bleach

> regarding antifungal effects?

>

>

> I am trying to find a way to get rid of mold and its toxins on the

> interior of a car, some chairs in my flat and perhaps several

clothing

> items.

>

> So far I tried bleach, bleach combined with sea salt, some herbs'

> incense etc. and results were relatively satisfactory only for the

> car: at least my dad can use the car without cross-contaminating

me.

>

>

> The chairs in my flat and any clothes that come into contact with

them

> (which is usually unintentionaly) is another story altogether:

after

> almost 3 years of first exposure to mold they have remained

> contaminated and are capable of contaminating everything

they 'touch'.

> Bleach, salt, EVEN the bleach + sodium hydroxide combination ...

none

> of them work in killing this mold on the chairs. Unfortunately I am

> not allowed to throw the chairs away, the parents won't allow that.

>

>

> So I was wondering if there's any antifungicide better than bleach

> that has been proven to work on porous things such as upholstered

> furniture?

>

>

> The further inconvenience is that I live in an East European

country,

> so I usually cannot order online the advertised antifungicides

which

> are mainly produced for USA...

>

>

> Or, is there anything else I might use which can be made from

common

> household chemicals? I'm thinking about borax and concentrated

H2O2,

> as I have seen them recommended on some websites, but I somehow

doubt

> they'll be strong enough for this level of contamination.

>

>

> Any help is appreciated.

>

>

> Branislav

[Guest guest]

Thanks .

So Shockwave is not so good as it is advertised. Dang. There goes

another of my hopes.

As for my parents, it's a bit complicated. I have been living with

mold problems for 15 years, but I realized that the illness was caused

by mold only in the last two years or so, mainly by discarding all

other options (bacteria, viruses, common allergens - none of them

could fit in the symptoms I have).

The problem is that the mold does not grow directly in our flat. Its

growth is not visible anywhere (in other words, our flat doesn't fit

strictly in the 'sick building' definition). However some objects

were and some still are contaminated either by mycotoxins or by living

mold, though it cannot be seen with naked eye.

Usually somebody would pick up some nasty mold from some other place,

house or even newly bought household product and then contaminate

objects in my flat. I know this will sound odd even to some moldies

here, but I have to say it because I think it might help others who

find themselves in the same predicament:

The most toxic objects I ever came into contact with were not

buildings or moldy flats but some imported soaps of questionable

quality and several cars on the street.

One might ask how on earth could a soap or a car on the street contain

so much mold and how do I know it's mold, but think again. Soaps are

made of animal fat and chemicals. Animals eat plants that can be

infected with the very molds that infect buildings (fusarium,

stachybotrys etc.). So, through the food they ate, the mycotoxins

might have accumulated in their bodies. The soaps in question were

imported from another country and were not properly tested before they

were released on the market. My contention is that they were heavily

contaminated with molds and mycotoxins, but I simply cannot fight the

powerful mafia which controls most of the import business in my

country. They import stuff that is dangerous for human health but

nevertheless people will buy it because it has nice packaging and a

lot of advertising on tv.

As far as cars are concerned, I think it is because the owner might be

living in a moldy building, or has used some contaminated product. I

can " feel " the moldy car from quite a long distance.

Since I'm the only one who is so sensitive to this, nobody really

believes that my problem is very serious. In the past I often used to

hear " words of consolation " such as " it's only your nerves " , " it's all

in your head " , " the weather is bad, we are all in the bad mood " and so

on.

Now the people (and parents) are increasingly aware that it MUST be

something material, but they doubt it is mold. They argue it can't

be mold since " nothing could survive for such a long time (several

years) so it must be something else. I was frequently advised to go

see the doctor.

And I did go to various physicians, but frankly they haven't got a

clue. None of them ever suspected that mold could be the culprit

despite classical symptoms (skin itching and burning, stomach cramps,

muscle incoordination, strong nausea, diarrhoea, vomiting etc). I

won't go into details but I suffered a lot over the last 15 years, and

doctors only added to my sufferings. I was even misgiagnosed as a

mental patient, and needless to say - the therapy did not cure me.

I started to feel better only after discovering that disinfectants

such as bleach and salt really did improve things. At least in some

cases.

Now I am still learning how to avoid contaminated objects and how to

decontaminate those that can be decontaminated. I know that heavily

contaminated things must be discarded, no question about that. But

since I will always be coming into contact with things contaminated to

some degree, and I don't have the money to buy new clothes every

month, I was trying to find new compounds that will be more

effective in killing mold on porous surfaces such as clothes and

furniture. Alas, perhaps they don't exist.

In any event, it's hard when nobody believes you.

--- In , " carondeen " <kdeanstudios@v...>

wrote:

> I have used shockwave, and shockwave with very strong peroxide, in

> attempts to de-contaminate my variouse furnishings, the different

> mixtures have not worked. the mycotoxins do not seem to be affected

> by anything that I have tried on large objects, smaller objects

that

> can be cleaned or soaked seem to fair OK for me- such as

telephones,

> but anything larger- TV, computer, desks, chairs- forget it- I pity

> you- please get your parents to read this and allow you to throw

> those things out- or sell them. Avoidence is the only way to get

> your own immune system to calm down

>

[Guest guest]

I have found strong solutions of Borax used in cleaning synthetic

clothing, camping gear and sueded footwear in commercial front loading

machines (run twice) to be generally effective. Forget about organic

fibers like cotton and wool, and upholstered furniture, electronics,

etc is a loss, don't even try.

If you possibly can, however, don't take anything, even just

cross-contaminated items. Especially paper. In retrospect, it's

really not worth the effort, value and risk. Been there.

> > I have used shockwave, and shockwave with very strong peroxide, in

> > attempts to de-contaminate my variouse furnishings, the different

> > mixtures have not worked. the mycotoxins do not seem to be affected

> > by anything that I have tried on large objects, smaller objects

> that

> > can be cleaned or soaked seem to fair OK for me- such as

> telephones,

> > but anything larger- TV, computer, desks, chairs- forget it- I pity

> > you- please get your parents to read this and allow you to throw

> > those things out- or sell them. Avoidence is the only way to get

> > your own immune system to calm down

> >

[Guest guest]

Along with the Borax use a cup of white vinegar on the final rinse

if you can.Or just use it from the start.

> > > I have used shockwave, and shockwave with very strong

peroxide, in

> > > attempts to de-contaminate my variouse furnishings, the

different

> > > mixtures have not worked. the mycotoxins do not seem to be

affected

> > > by anything that I have tried on large objects, smaller objects

> > that

> > > can be cleaned or soaked seem to fair OK for me- such as

> > telephones,

> > > but anything larger- TV, computer, desks, chairs- forget it- I

pity

> > > you- please get your parents to read this and allow you to

throw

> > > those things out- or sell them. Avoidence is the only way to

get

> > > your own immune system to calm down

> > >

[Guest guest]

Branislav

I have the same or, rather, a similar problem. the mold residue is on my hair

and/or clothes. The doctors say that it is not feasible, but I keep triggering

allergic reaction in others, particularly in places with a lot of sir current.

ly, I don't see a solution. The option provided by eric entails

homelessness.

Branislav <arealis@...> escribió:

Thanks .

So Shockwave is not so good as it is advertised. Dang. There goes

another of my hopes.

As for my parents, it's a bit complicated. I have been living with

mold problems for 15 years, but I realized that the illness was caused

by mold only in the last two years or so, mainly by discarding all

other options (bacteria, viruses, common allergens - none of them

could fit in the symptoms I have).

The problem is that the mold does not grow directly in our flat. Its

growth is not visible anywhere (in other words, our flat doesn't fit

strictly in the 'sick building' definition). However some objects

were and some still are contaminated either by mycotoxins or by living

mold, though it cannot be seen with naked eye.

Usually somebody would pick up some nasty mold from some other place,

house or even newly bought household product and then contaminate

objects in my flat. I know this will sound odd even to some moldies

here, but I have to say it because I think it might help others who

find themselves in the same predicament:

The most toxic objects I ever came into contact with were not

buildings or moldy flats but some imported soaps of questionable

quality and several cars on the street.

One might ask how on earth could a soap or a car on the street contain

so much mold and how do I know it's mold, but think again. Soaps are

made of animal fat and chemicals. Animals eat plants that can be

infected with the very molds that infect buildings (fusarium,

stachybotrys etc.). So, through the food they ate, the mycotoxins

might have accumulated in their bodies. The soaps in question were

imported from another country and were not properly tested before they

were released on the market. My contention is that they were heavily

contaminated with molds and mycotoxins, but I simply cannot fight the

powerful mafia which controls most of the import business in my

country. They import stuff that is dangerous for human health but

nevertheless people will buy it because it has nice packaging and a

lot of advertising on tv.

As far as cars are concerned, I think it is because the owner might be

living in a moldy building, or has used some contaminated product. I

can " feel " the moldy car from quite a long distance.

Since I'm the only one who is so sensitive to this, nobody really

believes that my problem is very serious. In the past I often used to

hear " words of consolation " such as " it's only your nerves " , " it's all

in your head " , " the weather is bad, we are all in the bad mood " and so

on.

Now the people (and parents) are increasingly aware that it MUST be

something material, but they doubt it is mold. They argue it can't

be mold since " nothing could survive for such a long time (several

years) so it must be something else. I was frequently advised to go

see the doctor.

And I did go to various physicians, but frankly they haven't got a

clue. None of them ever suspected that mold could be the culprit

despite classical symptoms (skin itching and burning, stomach cramps,

muscle incoordination, strong nausea, diarrhoea, vomiting etc). I

won't go into details but I suffered a lot over the last 15 years, and

doctors only added to my sufferings. I was even misgiagnosed as a

mental patient, and needless to say - the therapy did not cure me.

I started to feel better only after discovering that disinfectants

such as bleach and salt really did improve things. At least in some

cases.

Now I am still learning how to avoid contaminated objects and how to

decontaminate those that can be decontaminated. I know that heavily

contaminated things must be discarded, no question about that. But

since I will always be coming into contact with things contaminated to

some degree, and I don't have the money to buy new clothes every

month, I was trying to find new compounds that will be more

effective in killing mold on porous surfaces such as clothes and

furniture. Alas, perhaps they don't exist.

In any event, it's hard when nobody believes you.

--- In , " carondeen " <kdeanstudios@v...>

wrote:

> I have used shockwave, and shockwave with very strong peroxide, in

> attempts to de-contaminate my variouse furnishings, the different

> mixtures have not worked. the mycotoxins do not seem to be affected

> by anything that I have tried on large objects, smaller objects

that

> can be cleaned or soaked seem to fair OK for me- such as

telephones,

> but anything larger- TV, computer, desks, chairs- forget it- I pity

> you- please get your parents to read this and allow you to throw

> those things out- or sell them. Avoidence is the only way to get

> your own immune system to calm down

>

FAIR USE NOTICE:

[Guest guest]

> I have the same or, rather, a similar problem. the mold residue is

>on my hair and/or clothes. The doctors say that it is not feasible,

>but I keep triggering allergic reaction in others, particularly in

>places with a lot of sir current.

Could you be more specific about the primary source of the mold that

gets into your hair and clothes?

Is the mold in your flat/house (moldy walls etc.) or does it come from

some other source?

Why would doctors think it's not possible for mold particles to attach

to clothes or hair?? It is pretty much accepted now even in official

medicine that certain molds and mycotoxins can and will attach to

clothes and hair. The problem might be that your doctor(s) are totally

ignorant about toxic molds, their effects, routes of exposure,

symptoms etc?

> ly, I don't see a solution. The option provided by eric

>entails homelessness.

Well, it depends on how frequently you are being hit by mold

contamination, and how much you can stand.

I am not always contaminated. There are periods of several months when

I pretty much feel ok. I can go to the downtown, might even sit on the

pavement and nothing bad will happen. Ordinary dirt doesn't make me

sick, only the mold. And mold has hit me from the most unexpected

'places' and objects.

I usually suffer at least 2 or 3 strong contaminations every year, but

even when I'm not contaminated I always have to be on the watch. As a

result of this I almost always feel inhibited, under pressure,

confined to certain spaces and forced to move about in a controlled

way (in order to prevent contamination from known sources). It really

really sucks.

I don't know of any permanent solution either, except avoidance and

decontamination when hit with the mold.

[Guest guest]

> ly, I don't see a solution. The option provided by eric

entails homelessness.<

>

I don't know where this idea comes from.

I've said that I've lived in different houses and am now working in a

building full-time that I could only tolerate for short periods just a

few years ago.

Is there somebody out there telling people that I'm homeless?

I've been having the time of my life. As I said, just got back from

climbing Mt Whitney for the sixth time. The ranger station in Lone

Pine where the permits are issued is a pretty good " hit " but I didn't

even bother to decontaminate as I was forced to do in years past.

It just wasn't to the point of inducing the reactions that I used to

have.

By consistently practicing a degree of avoidance that keeps me on the

top side of the power curve, my reactivity has been so amazingly

reduced that I don't even have to abandon meals when I notice mold in

restaurants anymore.

Sure, there are a great many houses that I can't tolerate - but there

are many that I can.

It's all a matter of finding a pristine place and practicing MADNESS:

Mycotoxin Avoidance Decontamination Neurotoxic Exposure Survival

Strategy!

And Jules, it would be interesting if you repeated my experiment of

taking a contaminated possession to a pristine place - putting it in a

box with the ozone device and blasting the crap out of it and see if

the " hit " goes away.

That removes some of the variables in wondering if the device is

really making any difference.

And with all the hype, it is good to test these things for yourself.

Didn't do a thing for me.

-

[Guest guest]

, can you please describe in detail what you mean

by " decontaminate " ? It would be MUCH appreciated. Thanks so much.

>The ranger station in Lone Pine where the permits are issued is a

pretty good " hit " but I didn't even bother to decontaminate as I was

forced to do in years past.>