Re: is this Stachy?

[Guest guest]

As many far more qualified people on this board can tell you, it is hard to say

what it is

unless you run a culture. I think everyone would agree that he just needs to get

rid of it.

I had a water problem on my porch, it is 3 seasons- windows open most of the

year. I had

a little mold in that location, just from some water coming in the door. The

paneling had

gotten wet. I had a handy man tear the insides out and re do it. The wood studs

and

furring strips were fine at the door. I had cement block and a cement floor. We

just

finished it and it is nice and clean now.

Mold seems to like wood fiber and water and some warmth. Open air or not. If it

is closed,

I would think it would multiply faster.

Are they having any symptoms yet? Like colds, flus, a cough, allergies getting

worse since

they moved in?

But whether or not they are sick yet, it would be a very good idea to get the

problem taken

care of as soon as possible while the weather is nice. Good luck to them

>

> He lives in Westport CT. Can anyone recommend a good testing company, and

> any steps he should take in light of this. I told him not to touch it or go

> near it or try to clean it. He says the screened in porch is wood and

> probably gets wet and moldy. What can he do? I have read that remediation

> usually doesn't work but in this case, it seems like they might be able to

> remove the porch and rebuild it.

>

> I am a little confused though. I thought it was the sealed in nature of

> buildings that created overgrowths of toxic mold. Why would it happen in a

> porch open to the air and without HVAC?

[Guest guest]

has it right when she said " > I think everyone

> would agree that he just needs to get rid of it. "

1. Testing may not see it. Stachy is hard to culture unless you are

specifically looking for it. Microscopy is often better for detecting

Stachy but not for other kinds of mold. Negative lab results that are

false are all too common.

2. There is much more to mold than spores, dead or alive. There are

enzymes, mycotoxins, volatile organic compounds, glucans (and who

knows what else will be discovered) that are not detected by common

lab analysis.

3. Knowing the kind of mold does not change what to do or how to do

it.

4. Knowing the kind of mold does not change the need to act.

5. The common locations for mold growth are where it is usually

found, not where it is always found.

6. According to EPA and others any mold can be a problem for an

individual that is sensitized to it. It doesn't have to be toxic.

BTW, there are about 20,000 kinds of black mold, only one of which is

Stachy. And it isn't always toxic. White, green and other colors of

mold can also be toxic, sometimes more so.

7. According to the Institute of Medicine report - despite its

failings - the reason for the lack of causation is not the lack of

harm, but the lack of evidence of harm because the correct studies

have yet to be conducted.

8. Stop the water and the mold growth will stop. Killing alone is not

a solution because the continuing moisture will support new mold

growth.

9. Remove the mold and nothing more will grow if it stays dry.

10. Act on what is true for you, not on what is true for the

majority. They are not sharing your experience. Yes, it's lonely, but

that's how groups like this can help.

Finally - not really, but I'm stopping at 10 anyway because it's a

nice round number. If a pit bull were in your neighbor's yard you

wouldn't wait for it to kill or for lab results proving it is a pure-

blood pit bull rather than a look-alike before you build a fence,

take other precautions to avoid " exposure " and initiate a safe

removal process.

Keep in mind, however, that convincing legal and medical authorities

to act requires additional information and a different kind of proof.

But if we can prevent or stop the growth causing the exposure and do

it quickly enough, we won't need to convince anyone. Easier said than

done, but that's the way it is with goals.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

[Guest guest]

Thanks Carl, I agree.

So I guess my question is really, what do they need to do to get rid of it...can

they clean it

off (if so, how?) or does this require construction work?

Thanks!

> 3. Knowing the kind of mold does not change what to do or how to do

> it.

[Guest guest]

wrote: So I guess my question is really, what do they need to

do to get rid of it...can they clean it off (if so, how?) or does

this require construction work? Thanks!

The definitive answer, , is, " It depends! " And the following is

the short answer! (More excellent tips have been posted by others on

this group. Search the archives for those).

Instead of knowing what kind of mold is involved, it is more

important to know where the mold is, why it is there and not

somewhere else, what is it growing on (or in), what removal

techniques will work best for the least cost and how do you know when

you are done?

Look for the moisture. It may be dry now but it wasn't in the past.

Find the source. Did it come from a leaky pipe, a roof leak, window

leaks, sewer backup or condensation? In the last couple of days or

over an extended period of time? Is it visible or painted over? How

big is the " pool " of water and where all did it flow? Is there wood

rot or softened sheetrock? Is it on smooth surfaces like shower tiles

or painted walls? Or is it on rough surfaces like tile grout or

unfinished wood? Is it hidden inside walls, ceilings or air ducts?

These are all important clues for determining what to do next.

But first, if you have any hint you are reactive, don't you do the

work! The more exposure you experience the more difficult it will be

to get the levels below your reactivity level. Avoid the spike of

exposure you can get from cleaning. Don't rely on respirators because

they are far from perfect as described in a previous post.

What materials is it growing on? If hard, smooth surfaces they can be

damp wiped or vacuumed. (HEPA filtered of course).

Soft, porous materials like clothes and furniture can rarely be

cleaned if the mold is actually growing on them.

However, if the mold spores and fragments from a nearby source have

drifted in the air or blown through the forced air system and settled

like dust, then regular dust removal should work. If not, the clothes

can usually be laundered. Furniture is more difficult because they

can't be flooded and rinsed like clothes in a washing machine. Papers

are nearly impossible, etc.

Semi-porous objects like unfinished wood with mold growth, especially

studs, framing and sub-floors, should be damp wiped and/or HEPA

vacuumed to remove the loose material and then sanded to remove the

rooted growth. Of course use controls like containment to prevent the

" dust " from blowing all over the place!

You are done when your reactions stop. If they don't then either the

clean-up wasn't complete, there are other locations you've missed or

there are other types of reactivity occuring. Such as reactions to a

mold-killing chemical replacing the original mold growth problem. How

do you remove that?

However, if you feel better but don't fully recover, then the source

of exposure may no longer be from outside your body. It may also be

continuing from inside your body. That doesn't necessarily mean the

mold is inside you like with an infection. It may mean you are in the

18-20 percent that Dr Shoemaker has identified that can't get rid of

the immune system byproducts created during its mold defense of your

body. Some people need to address both the external and the internal

issues.

All the above is what works for most people most of the time. The

real challange is for the exceptions who require more diligence on

the identification of sources, the removal and the verification. Like

most of us in this group. THAT is the next step the industry and

professions needs to address.

We know how to do it, but disagree on how clean is clean. We need it

to be clean enough for us.

BTW, do you know how they clean and verify for highly infectious

bioterroism agents like anthrax? Where even a scant few left behind

can kill?

According to Dr. Eugene Cole it is the same way as above only with

extreme diligence. Verification of removal requires ZERO tolerance.

For more details, go to http://members.aol.com/IECnews/ and you will

see two interviews of Dr Cole. Read the one with the title " Xtreme

Remediation " from the November 2003 issue of Indoor Environment

Connections. (You may need to adjust your browser margins to get the

full column width).

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC