Re: Bleach Found to Neutralize Allergens (Toxins Remain!! Other Info)

[Guest guest]

I am so gald that you are in a position to inform some doctors. That is a great

help. It is

important not to discount the allergic pathway , because many people suffer due

to this.

There may be totally different pathways, but, as I said, it helps ME. I am

speaking not of

theories, but of what has actually helped me. Which would be bleach, at times. I

know it is

not the be all and end all, but many other people I know also find that it

reduces the crap

that is in the clothes. Bleach can also be very toxic in its own right. I

usually wear a mask

when I use it, as it burns my lungs. However.

I am being treated for the top 2 pathways on your list, and it has literally

saved my life. As

I said, this is not a theory, or an idea, it is a fact. As for the 3rd pathway,

I am hoping I will

not need to be treated for that, but that is in the future anyway.

I feel so much better when out of this house, I start to recover. But then I

have to come

back and keep working on it- and it is starting to get cold, too. I have been

lucky so far

with warm weather, maybe my luck will come back when this hurricane goes kaput.

I don't believe that the toxins are there forever. Nothing is there forever, not

even

radioactivity. It makes sense to me that natural processes can denature the

toxicity, but

what would those be and how could we find them and reproduce them, would be my

question.

Thanks for the discussion!

> Since there seems to be no such thing as No conflict of interest, I have a

hard time

> believing in tests, and results. I have to do it personally and see what

happens with me

> before I consider it possibly true.

>

> That said, I have found that I can bleach 100% cotton clothing with 1/2 cup in

the

washer,

> and when it is well rinsed I can tolerate it again, after drying well and

airing out in fresh

> air.

>

> This didn't work for a pair of jeans that had spandex in them. They are

hanging on the

> clothesline, maybe for the winter, as someone had said that worked for

them....

>

> > http://press.arrivenet.com/health/article.php/696384.html

> >

> > Bleach Found to Neutralize Allergens

> > First-ever Human Studies Show Bleach Solution Reduces Allergenic

> > Properties of Mold

> > Distribution Source : ArriveNet

> >

[Guest guest]

You've raised great points, .

I've only begun to learn about the devastating effects of the toxins

in which certain molds encapsulate their spores. My brother is

suffering from exposure to Stachybotris and is facing the most

difficult battle of his life. I'm trying to be supportive of his

efforts, but his brain is really not functioning optimally and I'm a

great distance away (CA vs IN). I've ordered a copy of Mold

Warriors to help me understand more fully the toxin's effects and

how to then best help my brother begin to move toward better

health. Right now, he is not making the wisest choices.

As far as the National Jewish Medical and Research

Center/Clorox study I see the following:

The doctor was quite accurate in his statements. He used

qualifiers in his statements regarding the results. Not once did

the doctor directly state: " Bleach Found to Neutralize Allergens " ,

that was the title chosen by either the reporter or the media

group for which he/she works. The doctor simply reported the

results as any scientist would have, using terms such as:

.... MAY...

.... MAY HAVE...

.... SUGGESTS...

.... UNDER LABORATORY CONDITIONS,TREATING MOLD WITH

BLEACH LOWERED ALLERGIC REACTIONS TO THE MOLD IN

ALLERGIC PATIENTS...

....UNDER ACTUAL FIELD CONDITIONS, ADDITIONAL

EXPERIMENTS WILL NEED TO BE CONDUCTED...

.... THERE IS GOOD EVIDENCE THAT BLEACH DOES HAVE THE

ABILITY TO SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCE THE ALLERGENIC

PROPERTIES OF COMMON HOUSEHOLD MOLD UNDER

SOME CONDITIONS...

By inserting the qualifiers in his statements, the doctor's

comments are true for this particular study, with this particular

mold, using these particular procedures, under these particular

conditions.

I see nothing wrong with what the doc says. I would, however,

like to see the study's entire report because, as the article is

written, it sounds as if viability was determined through only a

visual observation of the treated spores, not through plating

them up to see if NO mold actually grew from them. Surely that

can't be the case as that would not be good scientific method.

Another point that needs to be raised is the size... or rather lack

thereof, of the sample population. It was only 8 people... hardly

enough to prove anything conclusively! If one sets up the ratios

of those having a reaction to those tested, you'll find the following

percentages:

Clorox Bleach...

1:8 = 12.5% had a reaction to the allergens (87.5 did not).

Tilex Mold and Mildew Remover...

2:8 =1:4 = 25% had a reaction to the allergens (75% did not).

Although reaction to allergens was reduced (from a starting point

of 100%), IMHO there is a significant percentage of the

population still having a reaction to the allergens.

This led me to wonder... what would happen if we increased the

sample population? Well... let's look at a ratio with which we're

more familiar... tossing a coin. With the coin toss we have two

possible outcomes, we either get a head or a tail. With the

Clorox study, we also have two possible outcomes, a person

either has an allergic reaction to treated spores, or they don't.

Theoretically, we know that the larger the sample of coin tosses,

the closer we approach the 50/50 chance of getting a head or a

tail. Here's what happened when I tossed a quarter just 8 times:

[Just call me anal! ]

Heads:Total Tosses = 6:8 = 3:4 = 75%

Tails:Total Tosses = 2:8 = 1:4 = 25%

These are exactly the results gotten from the Tilex part of the

study. In any of the sets of 8 (and one of 4) which I tossed, I

could not replicate the 1:8 count seen with the bleach solution.

Nonetheless, these results make me question what would

happen with a larger test population. Would the results actually

show a more significant reduction in allergic reaction or not?

Until a larger sample population is studied, I'd say there are still

too many folks having an allergic reaction after bleach/Tilex

treatment to say the results of this puny, initial study were truly

significant.

[Guest guest]

Hi Marcie,

I am so very sorry to hear of your situation. I can't even begin to

grasp all of the adverse effects this toxin has on unsuspecting

individuals such as yourself. It is quite overwhelming to hear of

all the various symptoms this has caused for fellow board

members. No wonder it is apparently so difficult for many

people to understand, including those in the medical profession.

The diversity is truly astounding!

My brother has noticed the most discomfort in his feet and lower

legs. We don't know of any other effects yet as he's not had any

medical testing, per se, done yet. He has taken the online VCS (if

I have these initials out of order, please forgive me.. I've always

been horrible at acronyms!) and does show a loss of visual

acuity. He is currently taking CSM, but not at the frequency that

would be most beneficial in helping him bind and dump the

toxin. At the present, my biggest concern is getting him away

from the dwelling where he was exposed and of which he

seems reluctant to let go, even though he just rents.

He repeatedly states that he just wants things to be normal. I

can't help but feel that normal for him will need to be newly

defined in the context of all of this. The experience has been

terribly difficult for him for a number of underlying causes, so I

am doing my best to support him, encourage him to leave

material things behind, and make his health his number one

priority.

I keep you all in my thoughts and prayers and trust that things

are improving and will continue to improve for all of you.

Thank you for your care and concern, Marcie.