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You CURED yourself of MCS with this protocol, ok, I'll bite, who is the Dr

that wrote this protocol, as no one in the ENTIRE MCS has found a cure not

even the top doctors.

Angel

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, carondeen wrote:

> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 01:10:27 -0000

> From: carondeen <kdeanstudios@...>

> Reply-

>

> Subject: [] My experience with MCS

>

> When I first met the mold monster in 1991, one of my primary symptoms

> was MCS. My husband read an article in the paper by a Dr explaining

> MCS and he said he could sucessfully treat it with vitamins and

> supplements. I bought the book, and did the 3-4 month treatment, and

> it worked, no more MCS. It also stopped my light phobia in my eyes,

> made me feel much better, although my breathing issues took over a

> year to resolve. This time, my MCS is not my primary problem, but I

> would like to try the vitamin treatment again, even though I blamed my

> subsequent Kidney Stones on the massive Vitamins. I have long since

> lost the book and the Dr's name. Has anyone had sucess with vitamin

> treatment, or knows of the Dr offering this in a paperback book in the

> early 1990's- I would appreciate hearing about it.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

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Angel MCS wrote:

> You CURED yourself of MCS with this protocol, ok, I'll bite, who

is the Dr that wrote this protocol, as no one in the ENTIRE MCS has

found a cure not even the top doctors.

> Angel

Angel, as I told you before, I got rid of MCS seven years ago, but

those " top doctors " blew the chances I gave them to learn from my

experience.

And you responded that if anyone had actually done so, you would

have heard about it and since you hadn't - it couldn't possibly be

true.

That self destructive logic (as I said before) means that any number

of people could have conceivably discovered a way to rid themselves

of MCS, but you have no means of becoming aware of it since you

discount any experience of which you have no prior knowledge.

Since I am not lying, but you have no means to believe it, the only

option that remains is to wait until my experience is vindicated or

proven false and you hear it from someone else - such as Dr

Shoemaker or Dr Schaller.

But if it is true, then MCSers are going to have to lace up their

shoes real tight to kick themselves in the butt for the years they

wasted acting exactly like denialistic doctors; " If I haven't seen

it before, then it doesn't exist " .

-

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Share on other sites

...

I do NOT believe you had MCS as you cannot REPAIR a BLOOD BRAIN BARRIER

and every expert on MCs that I know of concurs that it not repairable.

If ANYTHING you had wsome allergies that might have MIMICED MCS.

You are stuck on the fact that MCS is mold related and as I told you

NUMEROUS times, those I deal with have no MOLD allergies.

So lets just agree that you have your ideas and I have mine.

I tend to side with , Gunnar Heusser, Kaye Kilburn about

this illness, you on the other hand tend to redlate to Shoemaker.

YOu have this *thing8 that you have the ultimate cure/solution etc., I

have dealt with this for years. I have NO MOLD ANYWHERE in my house as I

have had it checked, nor do I have ANY sensitivites or reactions to mold

etc. SO you have your way of curing yourself.

I was CURING myself UNTIL I was ASSAULTED and had all my progress

REGRESSED to the point of most likely no return now.

My doctor is NOT a DENIABLE one as you mentioned, as she HAS this and if I

remember correctly does NOT have a mold issue, nor do her kids who alos

have this.

Also, you are up in Incline area and I would think with the weather you

would be more mold prone that use down here. I DID NOT SAY WE DO NOT

HAVE MOLDHERE, just a lot less than you.

I have discussed you prior swtatements about curing yourself and the

verdicts are...he did NOT have it but had symptoms like it.

I guess your theory is going to be presented at the symposium in Triangle

PArk this month when they try to correlate a relationship between

addiction and ABDICTION? I do not beleive anyone is going to be

presenting your theory to this groups, are they? Lets wait and see if

this is a new disease paradigm as the people with MCS have been saying all

along or a mold related issue that you seem to be fixated on, ok?

Time will tell......

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, erikmoldwarrior wrote:

> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 04:55:07 -0000

> From: erikmoldwarrior <erikmoldwarrior@...>

> Reply-

>

> Subject: [] Re: My experience with MCS

>

> Angel MCS wrote:

>> You CURED yourself of MCS with this protocol, ok, I'll bite, who

> is the Dr that wrote this protocol, as no one in the ENTIRE MCS has

> found a cure not even the top doctors.

>> Angel

>

>

> Angel, as I told you before, I got rid of MCS seven years ago, but

> those " top doctors " blew the chances I gave them to learn from my

> experience.

> And you responded that if anyone had actually done so, you would

> have heard about it and since you hadn't - it couldn't possibly be

> true.

>

> That self destructive logic (as I said before) means that any number

> of people could have conceivably discovered a way to rid themselves

> of MCS, but you have no means of becoming aware of it since you

> discount any experience of which you have no prior knowledge.

>

> Since I am not lying, but you have no means to believe it, the only

> option that remains is to wait until my experience is vindicated or

> proven false and you hear it from someone else - such as Dr

> Shoemaker or Dr Schaller.

> But if it is true, then MCSers are going to have to lace up their

> shoes real tight to kick themselves in the butt for the years they

> wasted acting exactly like denialistic doctors; " If I haven't seen

> it before, then it doesn't exist " .

> -

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

FOR A LONG TIME, i DID NOT CONNECT MY MOLD EXPOSURE WITH MY mcs, or

for that matter, to the whole gammet of mold illness that happened

at that time. And why are you talking about allergies when we know

mycotoxins are not allergenic? My Mcs now varies with re-exposure-

no one- not even you, Angel, are going to tell me that my experience

is not real or relavent- or that I had an allergy to mold , or did

not have MCS, then or now. You seem to be the one who is adamently

denying facts that seem obviouse to me

>

> ...

>

> I do NOT believe you had MCS as you cannot REPAIR a BLOOD BRAIN

BARRIER

> and every expert on MCs that I know of concurs that it not

repairable.

> If ANYTHING you had wsome allergies that might have MIMICED MCS.

>

>

> You are stuck on the fact that MCS is mold related and as I told

you

> NUMEROUS times, those I deal with have no MOLD allergies.

>

> So lets just agree that you have your ideas and I have mine.

>

> I tend to side with , Gunnar Heusser, Kaye Kilburn

about

> this illness, you on the other hand tend to redlate to Shoemaker.

>

> YOu have this *thing8 that you have the ultimate cure/solution

etc., I

> have dealt with this for years. I have NO MOLD ANYWHERE in my

house as I

> have had it checked, nor do I have ANY sensitivites or reactions

to mold

> etc. SO you have your way of curing yourself.

>

> I was CURING myself UNTIL I was ASSAULTED and had all my progress

> REGRESSED to the point of most likely no return now.

>

> My doctor is NOT a DENIABLE one as you mentioned, as she HAS this

and if I

> remember correctly does NOT have a mold issue, nor do her kids who

alos

> have this.

>

> Also, you are up in Incline area and I would think with the

weather you

> would be more mold prone that use down here. I DID NOT SAY WE DO

NOT

> HAVE MOLDHERE, just a lot less than you.

>

> I have discussed you prior swtatements about curing yourself and

the

> verdicts are...he did NOT have it but had symptoms like it.

>

> I guess your theory is going to be presented at the symposium in

Triangle

> PArk this month when they try to correlate a relationship between

> addiction and ABDICTION? I do not beleive anyone is going to be

> presenting your theory to this groups, are they? Lets wait and

see if

> this is a new disease paradigm as the people with MCS have been

saying all

> along or a mold related issue that you seem to be fixated on, ok?

>

> Time will tell......

>

>

> On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, erikmoldwarrior wrote:

>

> > Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 04:55:07 -0000

> > From: erikmoldwarrior <erikmoldwarrior@e...>

> > Reply-

> >

> > Subject: [] Re: My experience with MCS

> >

> > Angel MCS wrote:

> >> You CURED yourself of MCS with this protocol, ok, I'll bite, who

> > is the Dr that wrote this protocol, as no one in the ENTIRE MCS

has

> > found a cure not even the top doctors.

> >> Angel

> >

> >

> > Angel, as I told you before, I got rid of MCS seven years ago,

but

> > those " top doctors " blew the chances I gave them to learn from my

> > experience.

> > And you responded that if anyone had actually done so, you would

> > have heard about it and since you hadn't - it couldn't possibly

be

> > true.

> >

> > That self destructive logic (as I said before) means that any

number

> > of people could have conceivably discovered a way to rid

themselves

> > of MCS, but you have no means of becoming aware of it since you

> > discount any experience of which you have no prior knowledge.

> >

> > Since I am not lying, but you have no means to believe it, the

only

> > option that remains is to wait until my experience is vindicated

or

> > proven false and you hear it from someone else - such as Dr

> > Shoemaker or Dr Schaller.

> > But if it is true, then MCSers are going to have to lace up their

> > shoes real tight to kick themselves in the butt for the years

they

> > wasted acting exactly like denialistic doctors; " If I haven't

seen

> > it before, then it doesn't exist " .

> > -

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > FAIR USE NOTICE:

> >

> >

> >

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Share on other sites

If you were getting better, how did you

cross the blood brain barrier?

>

> ...

>

> I do NOT believe you had MCS as you cannot REPAIR a BLOOD BRAIN

BARRIER

> and every expert on MCs that I know of concurs that it not

repairable.

> If ANYTHING you had wsome allergies that might have MIMICED MCS.

>

>

> You are stuck on the fact that MCS is mold related and as I told

you

> NUMEROUS times, those I deal with have no MOLD allergies.

>

> So lets just agree that you have your ideas and I have mine.

>

> I tend to side with , Gunnar Heusser, Kaye Kilburn

about

> this illness, you on the other hand tend to redlate to Shoemaker.

>

> YOu have this *thing8 that you have the ultimate cure/solution

etc., I

> have dealt with this for years. I have NO MOLD ANYWHERE in my

house as I

> have had it checked, nor do I have ANY sensitivites or reactions

to mold

> etc. SO you have your way of curing yourself.

>

> I was CURING myself UNTIL I was ASSAULTED and had all my progress

> REGRESSED to the point of most likely no return now.

>

> My doctor is NOT a DENIABLE one as you mentioned, as she HAS this

and if I

> remember correctly does NOT have a mold issue, nor do her kids who

alos

> have this.

>

> Also, you are up in Incline area and I would think with the

weather you

> would be more mold prone that use down here. I DID NOT SAY WE DO

NOT

> HAVE MOLDHERE, just a lot less than you.

>

> I have discussed you prior swtatements about curing yourself and

the

> verdicts are...he did NOT have it but had symptoms like it.

>

> I guess your theory is going to be presented at the symposium in

Triangle

> PArk this month when they try to correlate a relationship between

> addiction and ABDICTION? I do not beleive anyone is going to be

> presenting your theory to this groups, are they? Lets wait and

see if

> this is a new disease paradigm as the people with MCS have been

saying all

> along or a mold related issue that you seem to be fixated on, ok?

>

> Time will tell......

>

>

> On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, erikmoldwarrior wrote:

>

> > Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 04:55:07 -0000

> > From: erikmoldwarrior <erikmoldwarrior@e...>

> > Reply-

> >

> > Subject: [] Re: My experience with MCS

> >

> > Angel MCS wrote:

> >> You CURED yourself of MCS with this protocol, ok, I'll bite, who

> > is the Dr that wrote this protocol, as no one in the ENTIRE MCS

has

> > found a cure not even the top doctors.

> >> Angel

> >

> >

> > Angel, as I told you before, I got rid of MCS seven years ago,

but

> > those " top doctors " blew the chances I gave them to learn from my

> > experience.

> > And you responded that if anyone had actually done so, you would

> > have heard about it and since you hadn't - it couldn't possibly

be

> > true.

> >

> > That self destructive logic (as I said before) means that any

number

> > of people could have conceivably discovered a way to rid

themselves

> > of MCS, but you have no means of becoming aware of it since you

> > discount any experience of which you have no prior knowledge.

> >

> > Since I am not lying, but you have no means to believe it, the

only

> > option that remains is to wait until my experience is vindicated

or

> > proven false and you hear it from someone else - such as Dr

> > Shoemaker or Dr Schaller.

> > But if it is true, then MCSers are going to have to lace up their

> > shoes real tight to kick themselves in the butt for the years

they

> > wasted acting exactly like denialistic doctors; " If I haven't

seen

> > it before, then it doesn't exist " .

> > -

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > FAIR USE NOTICE:

> >

> >

> >

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carondeen <kdeanstudios@...> wrote:

If you were getting better, how did you

cross the blood brain barrier?

>

I am am a novice when it comes to Mold, mycotoxins and such. I know that I

almost slowly died living in my trailer and there was black mold growing under

my a/c and spreading through my air ducts. However I would go to Mexico for the

winters and would start feeling better and felt great but would go downhill once

I returned to my trailer. I fled from there about 15 days ago. Even though my

car is probably infected, I would drive down the road with the windows open and

feel better but once I checked into a motel...downhill. I spent last night in my

new tent and I am not as ill today as I have been.

, are yoy saying that the blood-brain barrier has been permanently damaged

and if so, what damaged it. I got CFS in 1975 and I just do not believe mold

caused my CFS. Now my MCS started several years ago so that could be due to mold

but I am not ready to write off my brain. I have stayed in motels in the USA on

the way to Mexico and I remember feeling bad when I awoke but not when I stayed

in Mexico. I have stayed in San de de and Zacatecas and both cities

are in the mountains and very little a/c and tile floors. I was going to go

there when I fled my house but after my first motel room, I awoke feeling so bad

that I didn't want to go to Mexico as ill as I was. If I died in Mexico, it

would be very hard for my kids to get my body returned.

Bob

---------------------------------

Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

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Everyone is entitled to their opinion on how or what caused their

MCS and if they did or did not get over it. The only person I can or

will speak for is myself, so here goes.

I never had any allergies, had minimal illnesses as a child and

healthy as a horse as an adult. (Those of you who know me, now be

nice. lol) Then, I got nailed by several years of mycotoxins... From

someone who had a fetish to perfumes/cologne (sorry to all those

folks who I inadvertingly bothered) to someone who goes into

anaphylactic shock as soon as I get the slightest whiff, within 10-

15 seconds. From one extreme to another. Pay backs are a bummer

(wanted to put another word, but did not want to insult anyone.)

My MCS seems at bit better, that is, until I get accidently nailed

again by mycotoxins. For me one definately triggered the other.

(Not to mention a wide range of other kick in the butt symptoms.)

KC's wife

(the other Sharon)

>

> If you were getting better, how did you

> cross the blood brain barrier?

>

> >

>

> I am am a novice when it comes to Mold, mycotoxins and such. I

know that I almost slowly died living in my trailer and there was

black mold growing under my a/c and spreading through my air ducts.

However I would go to Mexico for the winters and would start feeling

better and felt great but would go downhill once I returned to my

trailer. I fled from there about 15 days ago. Even though my car is

probably infected, I would drive down the road with the windows open

and feel better but once I checked into a motel...downhill. I spent

last night in my new tent and I am not as ill today as I have been.

>

> , are yoy saying that the blood-brain barrier has been

permanently damaged and if so, what damaged it. I got CFS in 1975

and I just do not believe mold caused my CFS. Now my MCS started

several years ago so that could be due to mold but I am not ready to

write off my brain. I have stayed in motels in the USA on the way to

Mexico and I remember feeling bad when I awoke but not when I stayed

in Mexico. I have stayed in San de de and Zacatecas and

both cities are in the mountains and very little a/c and tile

floors. I was going to go there when I fled my house but after my

first motel room, I awoke feeling so bad that I didn't want to go to

Mexico as ill as I was. If I died in Mexico, it would be very hard

for my kids to get my body returned.

>

> Bob

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

>

>

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I asked you for your *CURE*. as usual intervened and started in with

his cure of MCS.

THats right MCS is NOT an IGeMediated respionse, its not an ALLERGY its a

hypersneitivity. I do not and have never concurred with on HIS cure

form MCS.

He has ALWAYS stated that he cured himself when he addressed thge mold

issue. I do not curcur that one is depeendent on the other. They are

independent and thats how htey should be addressed. NOt as one mitigates

the other.

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, carondeen wrote:

> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 22:02:03 -0000

> From: carondeen <kdeanstudios@...>

> Reply-

>

> Subject: [] Re: My experience with MCS

>

> FOR A LONG TIME, i DID NOT CONNECT MY MOLD EXPOSURE WITH MY mcs, or

> for that matter, to the whole gammet of mold illness that happened

> at that time. And why are you talking about allergies when we know

> mycotoxins are not allergenic? My Mcs now varies with re-exposure-

> no one- not even you, Angel, are going to tell me that my experience

> is not real or relavent- or that I had an allergy to mold , or did

> not have MCS, then or now. You seem to be the one who is adamently

> denying facts that seem obviouse to me

>

> >

>> ...

>>

>> I do NOT believe you had MCS as you cannot REPAIR a BLOOD BRAIN

> BARRIER

>> and every expert on MCs that I know of concurs that it not

> repairable.

>> If ANYTHING you had wsome allergies that might have MIMICED MCS.

>>

>>

>> You are stuck on the fact that MCS is mold related and as I told

> you

>> NUMEROUS times, those I deal with have no MOLD allergies.

>>

>> So lets just agree that you have your ideas and I have mine.

>>

>> I tend to side with , Gunnar Heusser, Kaye Kilburn

> about

>> this illness, you on the other hand tend to redlate to Shoemaker.

>>

>> YOu have this *thing8 that you have the ultimate cure/solution

> etc., I

>> have dealt with this for years. I have NO MOLD ANYWHERE in my

> house as I

>> have had it checked, nor do I have ANY sensitivites or reactions

> to mold

>> etc. SO you have your way of curing yourself.

>>

>> I was CURING myself UNTIL I was ASSAULTED and had all my progress

>> REGRESSED to the point of most likely no return now.

>>

>> My doctor is NOT a DENIABLE one as you mentioned, as she HAS this

> and if I

>> remember correctly does NOT have a mold issue, nor do her kids who

> alos

>> have this.

>>

>> Also, you are up in Incline area and I would think with the

> weather you

>> would be more mold prone that use down here. I DID NOT SAY WE DO

> NOT

>> HAVE MOLDHERE, just a lot less than you.

>>

>> I have discussed you prior swtatements about curing yourself and

> the

>> verdicts are...he did NOT have it but had symptoms like it.

>>

>> I guess your theory is going to be presented at the symposium in

> Triangle

>> PArk this month when they try to correlate a relationship between

>> addiction and ABDICTION? I do not beleive anyone is going to be

>> presenting your theory to this groups, are they? Lets wait and

> see if

>> this is a new disease paradigm as the people with MCS have been

> saying all

>> along or a mold related issue that you seem to be fixated on, ok?

>>

>> Time will tell......

>>

>>

>> On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, erikmoldwarrior wrote:

>>

>>> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 04:55:07 -0000

>>> From: erikmoldwarrior <erikmoldwarrior@e...>

>>> Reply-

>>>

>>> Subject: [] Re: My experience with MCS

>>>

>>> Angel MCS wrote:

>>>> You CURED yourself of MCS with this protocol, ok, I'll bite, who

>>> is the Dr that wrote this protocol, as no one in the ENTIRE MCS

> has

>>> found a cure not even the top doctors.

>>>> Angel

>>>

>>>

>>> Angel, as I told you before, I got rid of MCS seven years ago,

> but

>>> those " top doctors " blew the chances I gave them to learn from my

>>> experience.

>>> And you responded that if anyone had actually done so, you would

>>> have heard about it and since you hadn't - it couldn't possibly

> be

>>> true.

>>>

>>> That self destructive logic (as I said before) means that any

> number

>>> of people could have conceivably discovered a way to rid

> themselves

>>> of MCS, but you have no means of becoming aware of it since you

>>> discount any experience of which you have no prior knowledge.

>>>

>>> Since I am not lying, but you have no means to believe it, the

> only

>>> option that remains is to wait until my experience is vindicated

> or

>>> proven false and you hear it from someone else - such as Dr

>>> Shoemaker or Dr Schaller.

>>> But if it is true, then MCSers are going to have to lace up their

>>> shoes real tight to kick themselves in the butt for the years

> they

>>> wasted acting exactly like denialistic doctors; " If I haven't

> seen

>>> it before, then it doesn't exist " .

>>> -

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>>>

>>>

>>>

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Share on other sites

LESS reactive when NO interaction with the chems, so WHEN I DID get near

them I was not getting thrown for the SEVERITY as previously. I willo

NEVER be cured...only LESS reactive, and the science out htere proves my

statemens. Never a cure only less reactions when encountered.

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, carondeen wrote:

> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 22:03:46 -0000

> From: carondeen <kdeanstudios@...>

> Reply-

>

> Subject: [] Re: My experience with MCS

>

>

> If you were getting better, how did you

> cross the blood brain barrier?

>

> >

>

>

>> ...

>>

>> I do NOT believe you had MCS as you cannot REPAIR a BLOOD BRAIN

> BARRIER

>> and every expert on MCs that I know of concurs that it not

> repairable.

>> If ANYTHING you had wsome allergies that might have MIMICED MCS.

>>

>>

>> You are stuck on the fact that MCS is mold related and as I told

> you

>> NUMEROUS times, those I deal with have no MOLD allergies.

>>

>> So lets just agree that you have your ideas and I have mine.

>>

>> I tend to side with , Gunnar Heusser, Kaye Kilburn

> about

>> this illness, you on the other hand tend to redlate to Shoemaker.

>>

>> YOu have this *thing8 that you have the ultimate cure/solution

> etc., I

>> have dealt with this for years. I have NO MOLD ANYWHERE in my

> house as I

>> have had it checked, nor do I have ANY sensitivites or reactions

> to mold

>> etc. SO you have your way of curing yourself.

>>

>> I was CURING myself UNTIL I was ASSAULTED and had all my progress

>> REGRESSED to the point of most likely no return now.

>>

>> My doctor is NOT a DENIABLE one as you mentioned, as she HAS this

> and if I

>> remember correctly does NOT have a mold issue, nor do her kids who

> alos

>> have this.

>>

>> Also, you are up in Incline area and I would think with the

> weather you

>> would be more mold prone that use down here. I DID NOT SAY WE DO

> NOT

>> HAVE MOLDHERE, just a lot less than you.

>>

>> I have discussed you prior swtatements about curing yourself and

> the

>> verdicts are...he did NOT have it but had symptoms like it.

>>

>> I guess your theory is going to be presented at the symposium in

> Triangle

>> PArk this month when they try to correlate a relationship between

>> addiction and ABDICTION? I do not beleive anyone is going to be

>> presenting your theory to this groups, are they? Lets wait and

> see if

>> this is a new disease paradigm as the people with MCS have been

> saying all

>> along or a mold related issue that you seem to be fixated on, ok?

>>

>> Time will tell......

>>

>>

>> On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, erikmoldwarrior wrote:

>>

>>> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 04:55:07 -0000

>>> From: erikmoldwarrior <erikmoldwarrior@e...>

>>> Reply-

>>>

>>> Subject: [] Re: My experience with MCS

>>>

>>> Angel MCS wrote:

>>>> You CURED yourself of MCS with this protocol, ok, I'll bite, who

>>> is the Dr that wrote this protocol, as no one in the ENTIRE MCS

> has

>>> found a cure not even the top doctors.

>>>> Angel

>>>

>>>

>>> Angel, as I told you before, I got rid of MCS seven years ago,

> but

>>> those " top doctors " blew the chances I gave them to learn from my

>>> experience.

>>> And you responded that if anyone had actually done so, you would

>>> have heard about it and since you hadn't - it couldn't possibly

> be

>>> true.

>>>

>>> That self destructive logic (as I said before) means that any

> number

>>> of people could have conceivably discovered a way to rid

> themselves

>>> of MCS, but you have no means of becoming aware of it since you

>>> discount any experience of which you have no prior knowledge.

>>>

>>> Since I am not lying, but you have no means to believe it, the

> only

>>> option that remains is to wait until my experience is vindicated

> or

>>> proven false and you hear it from someone else - such as Dr

>>> Shoemaker or Dr Schaller.

>>> But if it is true, then MCSers are going to have to lace up their

>>> shoes real tight to kick themselves in the butt for the years

> they

>>> wasted acting exactly like denialistic doctors; " If I haven't

> seen

>>> it before, then it doesn't exist " .

>>> -

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>>>

>>>

>>>

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I said the BBB not .

If you understand the purpose of the BBB it is to be SELECTIVE as to what

molecules pass thru the BBB to hit the brain so to speak.

when chemists make up drugs they use smaller molecules so that they do

pass, like most aneswthetics, as they want the brain to be affected by the

drug.

Now, with MCS which is a very POORLY used term, the brain literally gets

swollen, and the so called selectivity is now more peremable and allows

larger sized molecules to pass thru. Once the congruety of the barrier is

compromised it does not return.

Those with real MCS will say that they have feelings like they are in a

plane with the pressure in the ears. This was explained to me by a MCS dr

that the swelling of the brain created this *fullness* in the ears.

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, Bob wrote:

> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 16:23:30 -0700 (PDT)

> From: Bob <blue74730@...>

> Reply-

>

> Subject: Re: [] Re: My experience with MCS

>

>

>

> carondeen <kdeanstudios@...> wrote:

>

> If you were getting better, how did you

> cross the blood brain barrier?

>

> >

>

> I am am a novice when it comes to Mold, mycotoxins and such. I know that I

almost slowly died living in my trailer and there was black mold growing under

my a/c and spreading through my air ducts. However I would go to Mexico for the

winters and would start feeling better and felt great but would go downhill once

I returned to my trailer. I fled from there about 15 days ago. Even though my

car is probably infected, I would drive down the road with the windows open and

feel better but once I checked into a motel...downhill. I spent last night in my

new tent and I am not as ill today as I have been.

>

> , are yoy saying that the blood-brain barrier has been permanently damaged

and if so, what damaged it. I got CFS in 1975 and I just do not believe mold

caused my CFS. Now my MCS started several years ago so that could be due to mold

but I am not ready to write off my brain. I have stayed in motels in the USA on

the way to Mexico and I remember feeling bad when I awoke but not when I stayed

in Mexico. I have stayed in San de de and Zacatecas and both cities

are in the mountains and very little a/c and tile floors. I was going to go

there when I fled my house but after my first motel room, I awoke feeling so bad

that I didn't want to go to Mexico as ill as I was. If I died in Mexico, it

would be very hard for my kids to get my body returned.

>

> Bob

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

>

>

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Angel MCS < wrote:

> ...

I do NOT believe you had MCS as you cannot REPAIR a BLOOD BRAIN

BARRIER and every expert on MCs that I know of concurs that it not

repairable.

If ANYTHING you had wsome allergies that might have MIMICED MCS.

I tend to side with , Gunnar Heusser, Kaye Kilburn

about this illness, you on the other hand tend to redlate to

Shoemaker.<

Wow. All of these " top doc's " subscribe to the philosophy that

there is no hope for MCSers as the BBB cannot be repaired?

Yeah, I think I'll stick with Shoemaker! Might want to read his

chapter on " It's the Inflammation, Stupid! "

And after all these years, you still go with the " allergy " concept

just like the doctors who can't figure this out.

I would have thought that all of our posts concerning mycotoxins

would have made some kind of impression by now.

> YOu have this *thing8 that you have the ultimate cure/solution

etc., I have dealt with this for years. I have NO MOLD ANYWHERE in

my house as I have had it checked, nor do I have ANY sensitivites or

reactions to mold etc. SO you have your way of curing yourself.

>

> I was CURING myself UNTIL I was ASSAULTED and had all my progress

> REGRESSED to the point of most likely no return now.

How can you " cure " yourself if the BBB " cannot be repaired " ?

If you look through my posts, I do not believe you will find the

word " cured " anywhere. I said " I got rid of MCS " because I do not

doubt that you are correct that I have only built up an

extraordinary degree of tolerance as opposed to being " cured " .

Nor did I say anything about " ultimate solution " , only that the " Top

docs " were a bit misinformed about there being absolutely no way out

for anybody at all.

>

> My doctor is NOT a DENIABLE one as you mentioned, as she HAS this

and if I remember correctly does NOT have a mold issue, nor do her

kids who alos have this.

>

> Also, you are up in Incline area and I would think with the

weather you would be more mold prone that use down here. I DID NOT

SAY WE DO NOT HAVE MOLDHERE, just a lot less than you.

>

> I have discussed you prior swtatements about curing yourself and

the verdicts are...he did NOT have it but had symptoms like it.

Doctor AND children too? That's a bad sign. Reminds me of the

families Dr Rosenbaum discussed who fought MCS for years only to

discover that mold was chasing them around.

As I said, you have a belief system that anyone who " cured "

themselves cannot have ever had MCS, so if you see anyone " cure "

themselves by any means - ever, your conclusion is that

they " obviously " never had MCS.

You lack any mechanism for identifying a cure, should one ever

become available. This philosophy means that a " cure " can never be

found since any " cure " goes right in the trash for the crazy reason

that it WAS a " cure " .

This is the same argument CFSers used on me when I walked out of

the NIH CFS study and started mycotoxin avoidance. They

said " Everybody knows that nothing helps with CFS. So if you found

something that helps, it just proves that you never had CFS " .

Spiffy logic, but I'm one of the prototypes used as a blueprint

for " CFS " . No matter what I've got - That's the real deal.

I hope your groups enjoy their verdicts.

Regarding my " mold fixations " , as you say " Time will tell " .

-

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> bOB. ONE MOTEL DOES NOT MAKE THE TRIP- GO WHERE YOU FEEL BETTER-

GOOD LUCK TO YOU

>

> If you were getting better, how did you

> cross the blood brain barrier?

>

> >

>

> I am am a novice when it comes to Mold, mycotoxins and such. I

know that I almost slowly died living in my trailer and there was

black mold growing under my a/c and spreading through my air ducts.

However I would go to Mexico for the winters and would start feeling

better and felt great but would go downhill once I returned to my

trailer. I fled from there about 15 days ago. Even though my car is

probably infected, I would drive down the road with the windows open

and feel better but once I checked into a motel...downhill. I spent

last night in my new tent and I am not as ill today as I have been.

>

> , are yoy saying that the blood-brain barrier has been

permanently damaged and if so, what damaged it. I got CFS in 1975

and I just do not believe mold caused my CFS. Now my MCS started

several years ago so that could be due to mold but I am not ready to

write off my brain. I have stayed in motels in the USA on the way to

Mexico and I remember feeling bad when I awoke but not when I stayed

in Mexico. I have stayed in San de de and Zacatecas and

both cities are in the mountains and very little a/c and tile

floors. I was going to go there when I fled my house but after my

first motel room, I awoke feeling so bad that I didn't want to go to

Mexico as ill as I was. If I died in Mexico, it would be very hard

for my kids to get my body returned.

>

> Bob

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Angel MCS wrote:

>Time will tell and I am sure the Triangle Seminar will prove one of

us correct!

i still say I am right and its 2 different mechanisms and one did NOt

create/cause theother.

Since you created mold avoidance, I notice that your theory/practice

etc.,

is being researched? Aside from Ritchie who I have no doubt is helping

those with mold related illnesses, those withOUT mold are still

seeking a remedy.

The ONLY thing that is common to both is AVOIDANCE...and thats a

complete

NO BRAINER!<

Angel, you misconstrue my statements.

I haven't gone so far as to make any claims concerning mold as

causative for MCS. These are just observations of the effects of

mycotoxin exposure on people that I have witnessed. If you go back in

the very old messages, you'll see that I listed Cell Wall Deficient

bacterial infection as my primary suspect for metabolic dysregulation

of toxin clearance, but since I have no way of confirming this - I

limit myself to the aspects of the illness upon which I have a

legitimate and compelling reason to comment.

If you examine the stories of mold survivors, you will find that the

commonality is that NONE of us made an initial automatic association

between mold and illness until the problem had reached a troublesome

stage. Biotoxin mediated illness is just not that apparent unless it

is at the extreme.

When I reached the point of hypersensitivity and became painfully

aware of the mycotoxin connection, I attended CFS support groups and

found that many people were describing the same symptoms that led me

to my conclusions and that their clothing was giving me " mold hits " .

These people describe the similar circumstances to mine of being at a

preliminary stage in which they have not yet identified this

particular trigger although they give strong indications of concurrent

reactivity.

As I have said many times, I trained myself to recognize SUBTLE

indications of exposures and employed a level of avoidance and

decontamination directed at symptoms which others dismiss as being

insufficient to be a driving force in immune dysregulation.

Dr Shoemakers identification of the reconfiguration of immune

complement activition factors at these " lesser " levels which are

driven by the duration of the inflammatory response rather than dose

are apparently more important than one might suspect.

While avoidance of overwhelming exposures are certainly a " no

brainer " , the conscious decision to make extreme lifestyle changes and

direct concerted attention at subtle and seemingly slight indicators

of mycotoxins require a serious commitment to a specific concept.

If there is anything that could possibly surprise me more than having

this strange experience, it is that the very people desperately

looking for answers who have surpassed the denier doctors in their

quick rejection of an unfamiliar concept.

Mold victims are trying to understand why their illness is so

misunderstood and there is so little information available.

How will they feel when they find out that the information was first

suppressed by doctors, but then even more vigorously rejected by

people ostensibly seeking answers for their illness?

Rick warned me about this in 1998 when he described how he had

tried to bypass doctors and go directly to support groups with this

information since 1994, only to have them instantly reject the

mycotoxin connection. I said " That won't happen to me, because I'm an

Incline Village CFS survivor who walked out of the ampligen program to

pursue this concept and now I'm out mountain climbing. Only a brain

dead moron could fail to see the significance in that. At the very

least, they will be interested in the concept " .

Rick laughed and said " I don't think they will listen to you " .

I can scarcely believe it, but Rick was right.

-

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i know this is probably a dumb question, but is it ok to eat puff mushrooms,

found growing wild on a local farm? probably NOT, right?

thanks

victoria

[] Re: My experience with MCS

>>>>

>>>> Angel MCS wrote:

>>>>> You CURED yourself of MCS with this protocol, ok, I'll bite, who

>>>> is the Dr that wrote this protocol, as no one in the ENTIRE MCS

>> has

>>>> found a cure not even the top doctors.

>>>>> Angel

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Angel, as I told you before, I got rid of MCS seven years ago,

>> but

>>>> those " top doctors " blew the chances I gave them to learn from my

>>>> experience.

>>>> And you responded that if anyone had actually done so, you would

>>>> have heard about it and since you hadn't - it couldn't possibly

>> be

>>>> true.

>>>>

>>>> That self destructive logic (as I said before) means that any

>> number

>>>> of people could have conceivably discovered a way to rid

>> themselves

>>>> of MCS, but you have no means of becoming aware of it since you

>>>> discount any experience of which you have no prior knowledge.

>>>>

>>>> Since I am not lying, but you have no means to believe it, the

>> only

>>>> option that remains is to wait until my experience is vindicated

>> or

>>>> proven false and you hear it from someone else - such as Dr

>>>> Shoemaker or Dr Schaller.

>>>> But if it is true, then MCSers are going to have to lace up their

>>>> shoes real tight to kick themselves in the butt for the years

>> they

>>>> wasted acting exactly like denialistic doctors; " If I haven't

>> seen

>>>> it before, then it doesn't exist " .

>>>> -

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

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Better question, does the farmer use pesticides, are you allergic to mold,

if so, then you don't want to eat any mushrooms (fungi).

> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 10:57:13 -0400 From: <toria@...>

> Reply- To:

> Subject: Re: [] Re: My

> experience with MCS

>

> i know this is probably a dumb question, but is it ok to eat puff

> mushrooms, found growing wild on a local farm? probably NOT, right?

>

> thanks victoria

>

> [] Re: My experience with MCS

>>>>>

>>>>> Angel MCS wrote:

>>>>>> You CURED yourself of MCS with this protocol, ok, I'll bite, who

>>>>> is the Dr that wrote this protocol, as no one in the ENTIRE MCS

>>> has

>>>>> found a cure not even the top doctors.

>>>>>> Angel

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Angel, as I told you before, I got rid of MCS seven years ago,

>>> but

>>>>> those " top doctors " blew the chances I gave them to learn from my

>>>>> experience.

>>>>> And you responded that if anyone had actually done so, you would

>>>>> have heard about it and since you hadn't - it couldn't possibly

>>> be

>>>>> true.

>>>>>

>>>>> That self destructive logic (as I said before) means that any

>>> number

>>>>> of people could have conceivably discovered a way to rid

>>> themselves

>>>>> of MCS, but you have no means of becoming aware of it since you

>>>>> discount any experience of which you have no prior knowledge.

>>>>>

>>>>> Since I am not lying, but you have no means to believe it, the

>>> only

>>>>> option that remains is to wait until my experience is vindicated

>>> or

>>>>> proven false and you hear it from someone else - such as Dr

>>>>> Shoemaker or Dr Schaller.

>>>>> But if it is true, then MCSers are going to have to lace up their

>>>>> shoes real tight to kick themselves in the butt for the years

>>> they

>>>>> wasted acting exactly like denialistic doctors; " If I haven't

>>> seen

>>>>> it before, then it doesn't exist " .

>>>>> -

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

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I SUPPOSE THE PERSON WHO FARMS THAT PLACE USES PESTICIDES, ANGEL. AND YES,

I'M VERYYYYYYY ALLERGIC TO MOLDS.

THANKS--

VICTORIA

[] Re: My experience with MCS

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Angel MCS wrote:

>>>>>>> You CURED yourself of MCS with this protocol, ok, I'll bite, who

>>>>>> is the Dr that wrote this protocol, as no one in the ENTIRE MCS

>>>> has

>>>>>> found a cure not even the top doctors.

>>>>>>> Angel

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Angel, as I told you before, I got rid of MCS seven years ago,

>>>> but

>>>>>> those " top doctors " blew the chances I gave them to learn from my

>>>>>> experience.

>>>>>> And you responded that if anyone had actually done so, you would

>>>>>> have heard about it and since you hadn't - it couldn't possibly

>>>> be

>>>>>> true.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> That self destructive logic (as I said before) means that any

>>>> number

>>>>>> of people could have conceivably discovered a way to rid

>>>> themselves

>>>>>> of MCS, but you have no means of becoming aware of it since you

>>>>>> discount any experience of which you have no prior knowledge.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Since I am not lying, but you have no means to believe it, the

>>>> only

>>>>>> option that remains is to wait until my experience is vindicated

>>>> or

>>>>>> proven false and you hear it from someone else - such as Dr

>>>>>> Shoemaker or Dr Schaller.

>>>>>> But if it is true, then MCSers are going to have to lace up their

>>>>>> shoes real tight to kick themselves in the butt for the years

>>>> they

>>>>>> wasted acting exactly like denialistic doctors; " If I haven't

>>>> seen

>>>>>> it before, then it doesn't exist " .

>>>>>> -

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

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