Re: Ask the Doctor: Mold is everywhere right now

[Guest guest]

KC,

Your post just made me realize something. I'm been emphasizing a

distinction between mold (as spores and fragments flying around like

dust and pollen) as being everywhere; with the mold of health concern

usually being bmold Growth. Mold growth is mold organisms thriving in

their un-clean and un-dry micro-environments indoors. These are the

originating sources of the " plumes " and others talk about.

But NOLA and much of the Gulf Coast, both indoors AND outdoors, is

not clean and dry. The mold and mold GROWTH is Everywhere. Further,

mold growth is no longer limited to the relatively confined

boundaries of micro-environments inside a structure. The structure

itself is the environment for mold growth and has become the

generating source of plumes. The building is the source, not a micro-

environment within a portion of the structure. Being inside such a

building is not being exposed to just a plume like to smoke from a

fire, it is being exposed to the fire.

And that changes the whole complexion of the exposure discussion.

Comparing human experience within the plume generating geography

especially those areas with long-term flooding and standing water, to

the human experience of other areas of the country is like comparing

apples to nuts. And unfortunately, some of the opinions seem to

coming from the latter.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Posted on Mon, Oct. 03, 2005

>

> Ask the Doctor: Mold is everywhere right now

>

> BY DR. BHARAT SANGANI

> Knight Ridder Newspapers

> http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/living/12807574.htm

>

> (KRT) - Dear Readers:

>

> Hurricane Katrina devastated the Gulf Coast. The rebuilding has

> begun, but the effects of this storm will be with us for years.

>

> From a health care standpoint, one of the first problems will be the

> prevalence of mold in the community. As many of us have already

> experienced through the removal of carpet, Sheetrock, furniture and

> other personal belongings from flooded homes, there is mold

> everywhere.

>

> To discuss the effects of mold, and its relationship with health, I

> have invited Clay R. Bratton, M.D., to give us some insight.

>

> Q: What types of mold are there, and how can it affect our health?

>

> A: In general, mold spores cause an allergic reaction when they are

> inhaled from the environment. Molds can be broken down into indoor and

> outdoor molds.

>

> Both will thrive in moist, dark environments and are typically more

> prevalent in the summer months secondary to the increased humidity but

> are present year-round. The outdoor molds, surprisingly, reach their

> peak levels in the evening when the temperature decreases.

>

> Often, people will cut and water the lawn in the evening, which will

> dramatically increase the circulating mold spores in the air.

>

> Rain will also cause the release of mold spores, which is in

> contrast to pollen, which will decrease with rain exposure. The

> indoor molds are present year-round, and will be found anywhere

> moisture collects. Common places include under sinks, drains, drip

> pans beneath refrigerators and freezers, condensers of air

> conditioners, old books or newspapers, and shower curtains. Due to the

> conditions created by Hurricane Katrina, both indoor and outdoor molds

> will be much more prevalent, and Coast residents are already beginning

> to feel the effects.

>

> With the amount of tree damage, there will also be a significant

> outdoor mold exposure risk as many people are working in the yards

> trying to clean up. It is advisable to wear a mask when working around

> any grass, leaves or trees. Again, the mold spore count tends to

> increase in the evening hours, so it would be best to avoid yardwork

> during these times.

>

> Q: What are the symptoms of mold exposure?

>

> A: The symptoms of mold exposure can vary from person to person, but

> in general, will affect the upper respiratory system and may include

> sneezing, runny nose, cough or burning in the chest, wheezing, sore

> throat, postnasal drip, nasal congestion, headache, irritation of the

> eyes, burning of the nose or rashes and blistering of the skin.

>

> These symptoms may then lead to recurrent sinus infections and even

> pneumonia. There are many people who are currently being treated for

> chronic allergy problems with either medication or allergy injections;

> for others, these symptoms may be a new experience. There is some

> concern for those patients who are undergoing allergy injections. If

> they are already being treated for mold allergies, this dramatic rise

> in the mold count in our environment could trigger a significant

> worsening of the symptoms, and it is advised that you contact your

> allergy physician immediately.

>

> Q: How can someone decrease exposure to mold?

>

> A: For most people, avoiding environments with visible mold or

> situations known to have high mold counts will control the symptoms.

>

> It will be a difficult task, however, given the current situation. Any

> home that received any water damage should be considered to have an

> increase in mold spores.

>

> Homes that have had standing water are likely to have mold behind the

> Sheetrock and in the insulation.

>

> It is advisable to have these areas examined and cleaned

> professionally, including removal of any structures that were

> exposed to the water. If there was mild water damage, and there are

> small patches of visible mold, those can be cleaned with commercial

> mold and mildew cleaners, or a dilution of bleach (1 part bleach to 10

> parts of water). Placing a dehumidifier in water-exposed areas can

> also be beneficial.

>

> The best way to treat the symptoms related to mold exposure is

> avoidance of mold. Once again, however, this will be a very

> difficult task for some time. If you are experiencing any of the above

> symptoms, or have questions about mold exposure, contact your

> physician immediately.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am somewhat confused about my mold issues.

First of all, I think if we have certain genes (a-la Shoemaker) and

then get a chronic infection (not necessarily fungal) that creates

constant biotoxins (in my case, lyme), and/or are given too many

antibiotics creating gut dysbiosis and fungal issues...then if we

have those genes and are sensitive to molds and can't detox them we

get sick.

Some years ago I had marinkovinch test me. I was off the charts even

for his patient population on mold sensitivities. And I already knew

I had sky high candida IgG antibodies.

He thought there must be something in my environment. I didn't test.

I have expensive air filters.

I sort of thought the sensitivities were because of genes and chronic

fungal infections from lyme disease downregulating immunity and from

antibiotics and steroids given in my 20's, giving me fungal issues.

In other words I think/thought most of the mold is INSIDE me and then

given my genetics, I'm highly sensitive to any molds anywhere.

Recently because of demoliton and renovation in my building my

bahtroom ceiling flooded and crashed in. I was very concerned and it

smelled and I had an expert come in to test for mold--he also tested

ambient air outside in the city (daytime). I had no extra molds.

Is the area above dry? No, because the plaster got little bubbles in

it indicating there is still dampness.

It cost $500 to test and I don't love the idea of spending another

$500 to take another sample. And that's really the only way to do it.

To put out mold plates won't show whether my place has a higher mold

count than the outdoors, adn since we're in the city and its lots of

cnocrete, it's not an extremely moldy place.

I find it all very confusing to tell the truth.

As for mold making everyone sick, it doesn't. Some people, in very

moldy homes may just have some sniffles. IT depends on your

bacterial/fungal/viral load, toxins, and genetics, don't you think?

Perhaps I will test again in a few months just in case, though.

--- In , " tigerpaw2c " <tigerpaw2c@y...>

wrote:

> Posted on Mon, Oct. 03, 2005

>

> Ask the Doctor: Mold is everywhere right now

>

> BY DR. BHARAT SANGANI

> Knight Ridder Newspapers

> http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/living/12807574.htm

>

> (KRT) - Dear Readers:

>

> Hurricane Katrina devastated the Gulf Coast. The rebuilding has

> begun, but the effects of this storm will be with us for years.

>

> From a health care standpoint, one of the first problems will be

the

> prevalence of mold in the community. As many of us have already

> experienced through the removal of carpet, Sheetrock, furniture and

> other personal belongings from flooded homes, there is mold

> everywhere.

>

> To discuss the effects of mold, and its relationship with health, I

> have invited Clay R. Bratton, M.D., to give us some insight.

>

> Q: What types of mold are there, and how can it affect our health?

>

> A: In general, mold spores cause an allergic reaction when they are

> inhaled from the environment. Molds can be broken down into indoor

> and outdoor molds.

>

> Both will thrive in moist, dark environments and are typically more

> prevalent in the summer months secondary to the increased humidity

> but are present year-round. The outdoor molds, surprisingly, reach

> their peak levels in the evening when the temperature decreases.

>

> Often, people will cut and water the lawn in the evening, which

will

> dramatically increase the circulating mold spores in the air.

>

> Rain will also cause the release of mold spores, which is in

> contrast to pollen, which will decrease with rain exposure. The

> indoor molds are present year-round, and will be found anywhere

> moisture collects. Common places include under sinks, drains, drip

> pans beneath refrigerators and freezers, condensers of air

> conditioners, old books or newspapers, and shower curtains. Due to

> the conditions created by Hurricane Katrina, both indoor and

outdoor

> molds will be much more prevalent, and Coast residents are already

> beginning to feel the effects.

>

> With the amount of tree damage, there will also be a significant

> outdoor mold exposure risk as many people are working in the yards

> trying to clean up. It is advisable to wear a mask when working

> around any grass, leaves or trees. Again, the mold spore count

tends

> to increase in the evening hours, so it would be best to avoid

> yardwork during these times.

>

> Q: What are the symptoms of mold exposure?

>

> A: The symptoms of mold exposure can vary from person to person,

but

> in general, will affect the upper respiratory system and may

include

> sneezing, runny nose, cough or burning in the chest, wheezing, sore

> throat, postnasal drip, nasal congestion, headache, irritation of

> the eyes, burning of the nose or rashes and blistering of the skin.

>

> These symptoms may then lead to recurrent sinus infections and even

> pneumonia. There are many people who are currently being treated

for

> chronic allergy problems with either medication or allergy

> injections; for others, these symptoms may be a new experience.

> There is some concern for those patients who are undergoing allergy

> injections. If they are already being treated for mold allergies,

> this dramatic rise in the mold count in our environment could

> trigger a significant worsening of the symptoms, and it is advised

> that you contact your allergy physician immediately.

>

> Q: How can someone decrease exposure to mold?

>

> A: For most people, avoiding environments with visible mold or

> situations known to have high mold counts will control the symptoms.

>

> It will be a difficult task, however, given the current situation.

> Any home that received any water damage should be considered to

have

> an increase in mold spores.

>

> Homes that have had standing water are likely to have mold behind

> the Sheetrock and in the insulation.

>

> It is advisable to have these areas examined and cleaned

> professionally, including removal of any structures that were

> exposed to the water. If there was mild water damage, and there are

> small patches of visible mold, those can be cleaned with commercial

> mold and mildew cleaners, or a dilution of bleach (1 part bleach to

> 10 parts of water). Placing a dehumidifier in water-exposed areas

> can also be beneficial.

>

> The best way to treat the symptoms related to mold exposure is

> avoidance of mold. Once again, however, this will be a very

> difficult task for some time. If you are experiencing any of the

> above symptoms, or have questions about mold exposure, contact your

> physician immediately.

[Guest guest]

From: " jill1313 " <jenbooks13@...>

to tell the truth.

>

> As for mold making everyone sick, it doesn't. Some people, in very

> moldy homes may just have some sniffles. IT depends on your

> bacterial/fungal/viral load, toxins, and genetics, don't you think?

I can tell you when our home was damaged by Tropical Storm I became

very ill from the mold but my husband did not (a few sniffles).

We have two homes close to ours on the same street and I've been watching

them. One is a rental. 2 years ago the family that had rented it for 10

years was moving. I asked them why and they said everyone was ill from the

interior mold and the owner refused to fix it. He invited me inside to

look, I shouldn't have gone in there but curiosity over came me. Black mold

was all over the walls and ceilings and I immediately reacted. Was ill for

days afterwards. Soon as they moved I saw the owner and his paint crew. All

they did was paint over the mold and replace the carpet. Soon a new family

moved in. Within months they moved out. This has happened several times.

There is now a young family in there from Israel and I don't know if they

will be affected. The other house is next door to mine; was vacant for 10

years, young family moved in, wife kept complaining her 4 little ones had

asthma and other problems and their symptoms became much worse while in that

house (I did inquire and the little ones had many rounds of Rx antibiotics).

They sold it, did not remediate or disclose, a couple moved in. Was trying

to help a woman who has been on disability for 25 years with MS. After

doing a long med history and asking about her house, she admitted her son's

bedroom and his closet has had black looking mold in it for decades and she

never treated it. She began ill shortly after they bought the house. She

had too many classic " mold " symptoms and MCS rather than MS but didn't want

to hear that. Her son has MCS and mold symptoms. She did like that she can

now call herself and MCSer along with MS but refuses to acknowledge the mold

issue in her home. Her 14 year old son will be totally incapacitated

shortly if she doesn't make appropriate changes but I cannot help her until

she is willing to face the truth. My in-laws live in a very mold house,

they are all ill and not diagnosed with mold; however the grandchildren

visit often, stay for weeks during the summer and are not yet affected.

Often I've seen in my little research that one spouse may be affected and

not the other and that leads to marital discourse and often unfortunately to

divorce.

My theory, and it's only a theory, is a combination of genes and

mycoplasmas. As mycoplasma colonies grow, they can compromise organs and

alter their functions. Because the cells' nutrients are constantly being

depleted, they are more vulnerable to mutation, damage, and invasion to

other microorganisms. When other microbes work in concert with mycoplasmas,

they can have a synergistic effect and make it easy for other diseases to

develop or aggravate whatever disorder has already been established.

Overlapping infections by different mycoplasmas and other bacteria, fungi,

and viruses can cause symptoms that will change from one person to the next.

And this makes proper diagnosis of specific chronic and " auto immune "

diseases tricky and almost impossible to find source of onset of the disease

(which is just a cluster of symptoms given a name). When the mycoplasmas

are outside the natural habitat of the gut, such as in blood vessels and

joints, they grow uninhibited because the natural flora of the gut isn't

controlling their expansion. This gives mycoplasmas the freedom to colonize

organs and eventually destroy systems. Perhaps the growth occurs when the

immune system is weak, the ill have received too many antibiotic treatments

for their sniffles and colds and the Rx antibiotics have killed the natural

flora in the gut, times of illness or stress and when we are poorly

nourished. Just my thoughts trying to fit the pieces of the puzzle

together.

Rosie

[Guest guest]

Carl,

I always enjoy your comments, along with the thought process.

Anything that I can possibly do to shedd new light on this issue and

to evaluate what is exactly taking place. I understand what you are

saying here, but if I had to explain it to someone, forget it,

easier said than done.

Thanks,

KC

--- In , " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@h...>

wrote:

> KC,

>

> Your post just made me realize something. I'm been emphasizing a

> distinction between mold (as spores and fragments flying around

like

> dust and pollen) as being everywhere; with the mold of health

concern

> usually being bmold Growth. Mold growth is mold organisms thriving

in

> their un-clean and un-dry micro-environments indoors. These are

the

> originating sources of the " plumes " and others talk about.

>

> But NOLA and much of the Gulf Coast, both indoors AND outdoors, is

> not clean and dry. The mold and mold GROWTH is Everywhere.

Further,

> mold growth is no longer limited to the relatively confined

> boundaries of micro-environments inside a structure. The structure

> itself is the environment for mold growth and has become the

> generating source of plumes. The building is the source, not a

micro-

> environment within a portion of the structure. Being inside such a

> building is not being exposed to just a plume like to smoke from a

> fire, it is being exposed to the fire.

>

> And that changes the whole complexion of the exposure discussion.

> Comparing human experience within the plume generating geography

> especially those areas with long-term flooding and standing water,

to

> the human experience of other areas of the country is like

comparing

> apples to nuts. And unfortunately, some of the opinions seem to

> coming from the latter.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

> > Posted on Mon, Oct. 03, 2005

> >

> > Ask the Doctor: Mold is everywhere right now

> >

> > BY DR. BHARAT SANGANI

> > Knight Ridder Newspapers

> > http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/living/12807574.htm

> >

> > (KRT) - Dear Readers:

> >

> > Hurricane Katrina devastated the Gulf Coast. The rebuilding has

> > begun, but the effects of this storm will be with us for years.

> >

> > From a health care standpoint, one of the first problems will be

the

> > prevalence of mold in the community. As many of us have already

> > experienced through the removal of carpet, Sheetrock, furniture

and

> > other personal belongings from flooded homes, there is mold

> > everywhere.

> >

> > To discuss the effects of mold, and its relationship with

health, I

> > have invited Clay R. Bratton, M.D., to give us some insight.

> >

> > Q: What types of mold are there, and how can it affect our

health?

> >

> > A: In general, mold spores cause an allergic reaction when they

are

> > inhaled from the environment. Molds can be broken down into

indoor and

> > outdoor molds.

> >

> > Both will thrive in moist, dark environments and are typically

more

> > prevalent in the summer months secondary to the increased

humidity but

> > are present year-round. The outdoor molds, surprisingly, reach

their

> > peak levels in the evening when the temperature decreases.

> >

> > Often, people will cut and water the lawn in the evening, which

will

> > dramatically increase the circulating mold spores in the air.

> >

> > Rain will also cause the release of mold spores, which is in

> > contrast to pollen, which will decrease with rain exposure. The

> > indoor molds are present year-round, and will be found anywhere

> > moisture collects. Common places include under sinks, drains,

drip

> > pans beneath refrigerators and freezers, condensers of air

> > conditioners, old books or newspapers, and shower curtains. Due

to the

> > conditions created by Hurricane Katrina, both indoor and outdoor

molds

> > will be much more prevalent, and Coast residents are already

beginning

> > to feel the effects.

> >

> > With the amount of tree damage, there will also be a significant

> > outdoor mold exposure risk as many people are working in the

yards

> > trying to clean up. It is advisable to wear a mask when working

around

> > any grass, leaves or trees. Again, the mold spore count tends to

> > increase in the evening hours, so it would be best to avoid

yardwork

> > during these times.

> >

> > Q: What are the symptoms of mold exposure?

> >

> > A: The symptoms of mold exposure can vary from person to person,

but

> > in general, will affect the upper respiratory system and may

include

> > sneezing, runny nose, cough or burning in the chest, wheezing,

sore

> > throat, postnasal drip, nasal congestion, headache, irritation

of the

> > eyes, burning of the nose or rashes and blistering of the skin.

> >

> > These symptoms may then lead to recurrent sinus infections and

even

> > pneumonia. There are many people who are currently being treated

for

> > chronic allergy problems with either medication or allergy

injections;

> > for others, these symptoms may be a new experience. There is some

> > concern for those patients who are undergoing allergy

injections. If

> > they are already being treated for mold allergies, this dramatic

rise

> > in the mold count in our environment could trigger a significant

> > worsening of the symptoms, and it is advised that you contact

your

> > allergy physician immediately.

> >

> > Q: How can someone decrease exposure to mold?

> >

> > A: For most people, avoiding environments with visible mold or

> > situations known to have high mold counts will control the

symptoms.

> >

> > It will be a difficult task, however, given the current

situation. Any

> > home that received any water damage should be considered to have

an

> > increase in mold spores.

> >

> > Homes that have had standing water are likely to have mold

behind the

> > Sheetrock and in the insulation.

> >

> > It is advisable to have these areas examined and cleaned

> > professionally, including removal of any structures that were

> > exposed to the water. If there was mild water damage, and there

are

> > small patches of visible mold, those can be cleaned with

commercial

> > mold and mildew cleaners, or a dilution of bleach (1 part bleach

to 10

> > parts of water). Placing a dehumidifier in water-exposed areas

can

> > also be beneficial.

> >

> > The best way to treat the symptoms related to mold exposure is

> > avoidance of mold. Once again, however, this will be a very

> > difficult task for some time. If you are experiencing any of the

above

> > symptoms, or have questions about mold exposure, contact your

> > physician immediately.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes, exactly, Carl! The environment there is peculiar to begin with. In most

waterside communities, you have onshore or offshore breezes regularly moving the

air around. In many parts of that section of the Gulf Coast, the air simply does

not move, and so things do not ever quite dry out - the " heavy " air of song and

stageplays (excepting storms, of course). The heat, you could live with. The A/C

is there more to make the air breathable by drying it out.

In the old days, almost everything was built up off the ground to provide as

much circulation as possible, and combat the problem of trying to build on

permanently damp soil. After WWII, they started building on slabs, and relying

on air conditioning to make things work (so the problems there predate the usual

70's decade quoted for tight building problems).

Of note is the fact that Beauvoir, Jefferson ' old home and presidential

library, remains standing right on the beach while the entire town and

everything for miles around it is flattened. The house is a good 10' off the

ground, and built mortise-and-tenon style instead of with nails. It took wind

damage, but can dry out and be repaired. Most of the wind and water were able to

pass underneath the house. The fact that everything else is flat is a real

testament to faulty building design in the region. With the old " shotgun "

houses, you could open the doors on each end and hope to move a little air

through the place (a faint hope, but it sort of works).

I would think that any remediation scheme applied to one of the slab buildings

would be just about doomed from the start. And even if you could dry out the

buildings, the massive bloom is not confined to the interiors of the buildings.

The entire balance of nature there has been grossly disturbed. It does look like

areas that were washed clean by the tidal surge had most of the flora shorter

than a tree wiped out by the salt water, but that doesn't apply to most of the

region, and doesn't apply to the areas where the levees broke at all. Whatever

grows there now will be potential lunch for the mold.

All of that area sits behind Lake Ponchartrain - which is really a bay. Although

the water is in it is salty, a greyish kind of fog hangs over it almost

continually. The factories on its shores only made it darker- that grey color is

its natural state. You can sit and WATCH the air not moving. The MS towns are

somewhat different, because they do sit right on the beach and generally get

some better ciculation. They'll dry out more.

At best, I'm thinking the heavy air will keep a lot of the spores coming off the

bloom relatively contained geographically. This is why I would not consider any

place around NOLA capable of remediation to a degree that could possibly be safe

for a mold responder. If I turn out to be wrong about that, no one will be

happier than me...but I don't think so, and I'm not about to test it out

personally. I wouldn't have tried it, even before Katrina. Where public schools

in other regions have rules about wearing shoes to prevent possible spread of

athlete's foot or injuries, the schools around there have shoe laws to try to

cut down on the other fungal infections kids get just from walking on the damp

soil. My commenting on this is directed at the fact that the place is, and

always was, a natural fungus farm to begin with. I wouldn't have dreamed

anything could possibly make it more so, until now.

You'd certainly know better than I what the cold winter air might do to change

things - but it's nearly as damp in the winter as in the summer. I've been

through blizzards that didn't get in your bones the way winters there can. Quite

beside the beginning factual errors in all these press releases we're seeing,

most of the experts being quoted don't appear to have a flying clue about the

area they're talking about. Tourists in staying in climate controlled hotels and

Mardi Gras guests visiting in late winter would simply not get it.

Serena

www.freeboards.net/index.php?mforum=sickgovernmentb

---------------------------------

for Good

Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

[Guest guest]

> Some years ago I had marinkovinch test me. I was off the charts

even for his patient population on mold sensitivities.and then

> given my genetics, I'm highly sensitive to any molds anywhere.

>

> Recently because of demoliton and renovation in my building my

> bahtroom ceiling flooded and crashed in. I was very concerned and it

> smelled and I had an expert come in to test for mold--he also tested

> ambient air outside in the city (daytime). I had no extra molds.

I thrashed this out with Dr M years ago as I described with

the " Housing project in Sweden " .

" Testing; no extra molds " give no conclusive results unless you

test " Shoemaker Style " .

" A physicist 'sees' the neutrino by the trail it leaves " .

-