Re: According to NY Times, we are parasites

[Guest guest]

Reading all of these people's post really just makes me sad as it is

evident to me how many have taken the bait, hook, line, and sinker, regarding

the

safety and effectiveness of vaccines. It is the same kind of sad that I feel

when I am out somewhere and see a little one who is obviously not healthy and

knowing that they are more than likely vaccinated and that there poor health

is most likely due to the vaccines that the parents. like those that defend

them here, gave them with blind faith in what they have been told by the

establishment.

I mean it is amazing to me how many think that we non vaxers should have

insurance policies in case their children get sick due to our unvaxed children,

and yes, I have 5 of them and if these posters had their way, we would all be

put on an island somewhere like lepers in biblical times. Who will support

their vaccine injured children for life??? The liability should be with the

pharmaceutical companies profiting from the vaccines and they are the ones

who should be funding the care of all the chronically ill people due to

vaccines.

It just makes me feel sad to see so many

false beliefs about vaccines in one place I guess and I really hope that

all of you who are new to this will not let them scare you because I can

promise you that the people here know a lot more about the science of vaccines

than

these pro vax posters.

Mavis

**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL

Home.

(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030\

000000001)

[Guest guest]

That just makes my blood boil to be accused of getting a free ride on disease

protection. I've actually had people say that to me and I explain that I don't

believe vaccines work so why would I think I'm getting a free ride?? Parasite,

indeed. The only parasites are the money-sucking ones who push vaccines. Okay, I

feel better now.

Winnie

According to NY Times, we are " parasites "

Vaccinations

> The article I am referring to came out yesterday, March 20, 2008

> Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/21/us/21vaccine.html

> " Public Health Risk Seen as Parents Reject Vaccines "

>

> Quoted from the article:

> " The very success of immunizations has turned out to be an Achilles'

> heel, " said Dr. Mark Sawyer, a pediatrician and infectious disease

> specialist at Rady Children's Hospital in San Diego. " Most of these

> parents have never seen measles, and don't realize it could be a bad

> disease so they turn their concerns to unfounded risks. They do not

> perceive risk of the disease but perceive risk of the vaccine. "

>

> Dr. Sawyer and the vast majority of pediatricians believe strongly

> that vaccinations are the cornerstone of sound public health. Many

> doctors view the so-called exempters as parasites, of a sort,

> benefiting from the otherwise inoculated majority. "

> --------

>

> I don't consider it " sound public health " to load up the

> vaccines with

> toxins that cause innumerable side-effects, Autism, Alzheimer's

> Disease, auto-immune disorders, allergies, etc...(and that's

> just the

> A-list)!

>

> Kris4

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My mother-in-law accused me (only me, because of course her son is

perfect, always agrees with her and can't think for himself, so it

must be me pushing the issue of no-vax on him! ) of being an

" irresponsible parasite " when she found out we weren't vaxing....

it's quite a common opinion in the pro-vax world.

On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 1:09 PM, <wharrison@...> wrote:

>

> That just makes my blood boil to be accused of getting a free ride on

> disease protection. I've actually had people say that to me and I explain

> that I don't believe vaccines work so why would I think I'm getting a free

> ride?? Parasite, indeed. The only parasites are the money-sucking ones who

> push vaccines. Okay, I feel better now.

>

> Winnie

[Guest guest]

Boy, that's tough coming from her. It's not as if you can say what you want and

never have to see her again. How aggravating.

Winnie

Re: According to NY Times, we are " parasites "

Vaccinations

> My mother-in-law accused me (only me, because of course her son is

> perfect, always agrees with her and can't think for himself, so it

> must be me pushing the issue of no-vax on him! ) of being an

> " irresponsible parasite " when she found out we weren't vaxing....

> it's quite a common opinion in the pro-vax world.

>

>

>

>

>

> On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 1:09 PM, wrote:

> >

> > That just makes my blood boil to be accused of getting a free

> ride on

> > disease protection. I've actually had people say that to me

> and I explain

> > that I don't believe vaccines work so why would I think I'm

> getting a free

> > ride?? Parasite, indeed. The only parasites are the money-

> sucking ones who

> > push vaccines. Okay, I feel better now.

> >

> > Winnie

>

[Guest guest]

This is the part that scares me the most about deciding to stop all further

vaccinations for my daughter is just how " looked down " upon we are as parents

for making this decision. Not only that i just hate to think how some cruel,

stuck up, un-informed parent in my daughter's school will look at my daughter

and the fact that her mommy doesn't vaccinate her and much of a risk she would

be to have around for the kids who do get posions in their body. I normally can

care less what anyone thinks about anything I do or say but when you have a

little person who can be ostracized by others for your decision, that hurts my

heart! Ironically enough it is still not enough to change my choices and all I

can think about is not poisoning my baby girl anymore!

sisterkris2003 <sisterkris2003@...> wrote: The article I am

referring to came out yesterday, March 20, 2008

Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/21/us/21vaccine.html

" Public Health Risk Seen as Parents Reject Vaccines "

Quoted from the article:

" The very success of immunizations has turned out to be an Achilles'

heel, " said Dr. Mark Sawyer, a pediatrician and infectious disease

specialist at Rady Children's Hospital in San Diego. " Most of these

parents have never seen measles, and don't realize it could be a bad

disease so they turn their concerns to unfounded risks. They do not

perceive risk of the disease but perceive risk of the vaccine. "

Dr. Sawyer and the vast majority of pediatricians believe strongly

that vaccinations are the cornerstone of sound public health. Many

doctors view the so-called exempters as parasites, of a sort,

benefiting from the otherwise inoculated majority. "

--------

I don't consider it " sound public health " to load up the vaccines with

toxins that cause innumerable side-effects, Autism, Alzheimer's

Disease, auto-immune disorders, allergies, etc...(and that's just the

A-list)!

Kris4

Rina Barillas

---------------------------------

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

[Guest guest]

Rina,

If anyone looks down on your child for that, you don't want to be involved with

them anyway. I don't think she'll be ostracized. I know it might seem it could

be a problem, but if anything I find parents thank me for informing them.

They're usually horrified to learn they didn't have to vaccinate for school

entry. And as your kids get older, it's really not discussed much. It's hard not

to worry sometimes, though, I know.

Winnie

Re: According to NY Times, we are " parasites "

Vaccinations

> This is the part that scares me the most about deciding to stop

> all further vaccinations for my daughter is just how " looked

> down " upon we are as parents for making this decision. Not only

> that i just hate to think how some cruel, stuck up, un-informed

> parent in my daughter's school will look at my daughter and the

> fact that her mommy doesn't vaccinate her and much of a risk she

> would be to have around for the kids who do get posions in their

> body. I normally can care less what anyone thinks about anything

> I do or say but when you have a little person who can be

> ostracized by others for your decision, that hurts my heart!

> Ironically enough it is still not enough to change my choices

> and all I can think about is not poisoning my baby girl anymore!

>

> sisterkris2003 wrote: The

> article I am referring to came out yesterday, March 20, 2008

> Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/21/us/21vaccine.html

> " Public Health Risk Seen as Parents Reject Vaccines "

>

> Quoted from the article:

> " The very success of immunizations has turned out to be an Achilles'

> heel, " said Dr. Mark Sawyer, a pediatrician and infectious disease

> specialist at Rady Children's Hospital in San Diego. " Most of these

> parents have never seen measles, and don't realize it could be a bad

> disease so they turn their concerns to unfounded risks. They do not

> perceive risk of the disease but perceive risk of the vaccine. "

>

> Dr. Sawyer and the vast majority of pediatricians believe strongly

> that vaccinations are the cornerstone of sound public health. Many

> doctors view the so-called exempters as parasites, of a sort,

> benefiting from the otherwise inoculated majority. "

> --------

>

> I don't consider it " sound public health " to load up the

> vaccines with

> toxins that cause innumerable side-effects, Autism, Alzheimer's

> Disease, auto-immune disorders, allergies, etc...(and that's

> just the

> A-list)!

>

> Kris4

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Rina Barillas

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with

> Search.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Winnie for the words of encouragement. I am a worry wort when it comes

to my daughter as I am sure many parents can be. This is all still so new and

fresh to me that I do have doubts sometimes.

Rina

wharrison@... wrote:

Rina,

If anyone looks down on your child for that, you don't want to be involved with

them anyway. I don't think she'll be ostracized. I know it might seem it could

be a problem, but if anything I find parents thank me for informing them.

They're usually horrified to learn they didn't have to vaccinate for school

entry. And as your kids get older, it's really not discussed much. It's hard not

to worry sometimes, though, I know.

Winnie

Re: According to NY Times, we are " parasites "

Vaccinations

> This is the part that scares me the most about deciding to stop

> all further vaccinations for my daughter is just how " looked

> down " upon we are as parents for making this decision. Not only

> that i just hate to think how some cruel, stuck up, un-informed

> parent in my daughter's school will look at my daughter and the

> fact that her mommy doesn't vaccinate her and much of a risk she

> would be to have around for the kids who do get posions in their

> body. I normally can care less what anyone thinks about anything

> I do or say but when you have a little person who can be

> ostracized by others for your decision, that hurts my heart!

> Ironically enough it is still not enough to change my choices

> and all I can think about is not poisoning my baby girl anymore!

>

> sisterkris2003 wrote: The

> article I am referring to came out yesterday, March 20, 2008

> Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/21/us/21vaccine.html

> " Public Health Risk Seen as Parents Reject Vaccines "

>

> Quoted from the article:

> " The very success of immunizations has turned out to be an Achilles'

> heel, " said Dr. Mark Sawyer, a pediatrician and infectious disease

> specialist at Rady Children's Hospital in San Diego. " Most of these

> parents have never seen measles, and don't realize it could be a bad

> disease so they turn their concerns to unfounded risks. They do not

> perceive risk of the disease but perceive risk of the vaccine. "

>

> Dr. Sawyer and the vast majority of pediatricians believe strongly

> that vaccinations are the cornerstone of sound public health. Many

> doctors view the so-called exempters as parasites, of a sort,

> benefiting from the otherwise inoculated majority. "

> --------

>

> I don't consider it " sound public health " to load up the

> vaccines with

> toxins that cause innumerable side-effects, Autism, Alzheimer's

> Disease, auto-immune disorders, allergies, etc...(and that's

> just the

> A-list)!

>

> Kris4

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Rina Barillas

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with

> Search.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Winnie,

What I don't understand is, why do people whom are vaccinated care?

As far as they are concerned, they are immune to those 'terrible'

diseases anyway....right?!?!

Kris

>

> That just makes my blood boil to be accused of getting a free ride

on disease protection. I've actually had people say that to me and I

explain that I don't believe vaccines work so why would I think I'm

getting a free ride?? Parasite, indeed. The only parasites are the

money-sucking ones who push vaccines. Okay, I feel better now.

>

> Winnie

>

> According to NY Times, we are " parasites "

> Vaccinations

>

> > The article I am referring to came out yesterday, March 20, 2008

> > Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/21/us/21vaccine.html

> > " Public Health Risk Seen as Parents Reject Vaccines "

> >

> > Quoted from the article:

> > " The very success of immunizations has turned out to be an Achilles'

> > heel, " said Dr. Mark Sawyer, a pediatrician and infectious disease

> > specialist at Rady Children's Hospital in San Diego. " Most of these

> > parents have never seen measles, and don't realize it could be a bad

> > disease so they turn their concerns to unfounded risks. They do not

> > perceive risk of the disease but perceive risk of the vaccine. "

> >

> > Dr. Sawyer and the vast majority of pediatricians believe strongly

> > that vaccinations are the cornerstone of sound public health. Many

> > doctors view the so-called exempters as parasites, of a sort,

> > benefiting from the otherwise inoculated majority. "

> > --------

> >

> > I don't consider it " sound public health " to load up the

> > vaccines with

> > toxins that cause innumerable side-effects, Autism, Alzheimer's

> > Disease, auto-immune disorders, allergies, etc...(and that's

> > just the

> > A-list)!

> >

> > Kris4

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Over time, as you become more and more educated, you will find

yourself worrying a lot less. For instance, the subject of

vaccinations hardly ever comes up with other parents, so most don't

even know I don't vax. I've never had my two-year-old left out of a

birthday party or other social function because of the issue. It is

more difficult dealing with family that don't understand than it is

dealing with friends and/or strangers on the issue.

Also, if you take the time to step back and quietly observe other

children when you're at the mall or the grocery store, etc. you can

see the damage vaccines are doing all around us. It's everywhere...

If you REALLY pay attention, you do see it... all the allergies, all

the neurological defects, all the ADHD, and even the fussy infant that

was just vaccinated being pushed around in the grocery cart. I was at

the mall the other day and there was a mom pushing a stroller with a

fussy infant in it... I overheard the mother on her cell phone talking

about how her daughter had just had her shots and was not feeling

well... well then WTH are you doing at the MALL with her lady??? My

husband and I also counted as we were going through the mall and we

spotted 16.....SIXTEEN children that had some sort of neurological

abnormality going on, including two that we heard parents specifically

discussing autism about. This was ON A SCHOOL DAY when not many kids

over the age of 4 were in the mall. We were only at the mall 1.5

hours.

With my mother-in-law, she's a " devout " Catholic, and a very active

anti-abortionist, so when I mentioned some vaccines are cultured on

the lung tissue of aborted human fetuses, she shut up and hasn't

broached the subject with me again. She was also very shocked when my

husband quickly started spouting statistics at her that were totally

against everything she was trying to argue. The only arguments she

could put up was that we are irresponsible.... we told her that when

she'd read up and researched the subject as in-depth as I had, then we

MIGHT decide to discuss it with her, but otherwise, her opinion is

noted but we will be the ones that ultimately decide how we raise our

children. Subject dropped.

By the way, my husbands family is RIDDEN with disease.... allergies to

almost everything under the sun (it's easier to tell you what my

husband and each of his 5 siblings are NOT allergic to than it is to

list all their allergies), they ALL have asthma, both parents have

hypertension, etc. I did mention one day that the whole family would

be more healthy if she had taken the initiative to investigate what

she was allowing to be put in their bodies when they were growing

up.... she turned and walked away from me without a word. (I can be a

real bitch when it comes to this subject. hehe) She has had all her

kids in for weekly allergy shots, all vaccines, etc. throughout the

years. She even suffers aches and pains for which the doctors cannot

find a cause, and they have all but accused her of being a

hypochondriac.... I think she's got heavy metal poisoning.

On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 1:58 PM, Rina Barillas <kisses4chuly@...> wrote:

>

>

>

>

> Thank you Winnie for the words of encouragement. I am a worry wort when it

> comes to my daughter as I am sure many parents can be. This is all still so

> new and fresh to me that I do have doubts sometimes.

>

> Rina

[Guest guest]

That's the million-dollar question!

On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 2:16 PM, sisterkris2003

<sisterkris2003@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Winnie,

> What I don't understand is, why do people whom are vaccinated care?

> As far as they are concerned, they are immune to those 'terrible'

> diseases anyway....right?!?!

>

> Kris

[Guest guest]

From what I can gather it has to do with the failure rate of vaccines. If they

vaccinate their child and it fails, they're just as much at risk as they claim

our children are for being purposefully not vaccinated - only they're not aware

of their risk since they assume the vaccines work and they have no way of

knowing if it failed or not. I guess they figure the risk to their child is

less if everyone is vaccinated, taking the failure rate into account, the

percentage needed to maintain herd immunity would still be maintained.

--

Roni Bergerson

Independent Monavie Distributor

Celebrate Good Health with Monavie!

http://www.mymonavie.com/jandrbergerson/

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " Roberg " <trinnea@...>

That's the million-dollar question!

On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 2:16 PM, sisterkris2003

<sisterkris2003@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Winnie,

> What I don't understand is, why do people whom are vaccinated care?

> As far as they are concerned, they are immune to those 'terrible'

> diseases anyway....right?!?!

>

> Kris

[Guest guest]

The subject rarely ever comes up here either, but in the handful of times it

has, parents have completely understood and even applauded me on the decision

once they hear my son's story. I don't make it public knowledge that I don't

vaccinate and interestingly enough, many people know how I feel about vaccines

and yet don't connect the dots to the fact that I don't vaccinate. That

particular jump in logic just doesn't happen for some reason.

It's really nobody's business whether I vaccinate or not. Just like it's

nobody's business whether our family co-sleeps, breastfeeds, spanks or any of

the other many parenting practices out there.

--

Roni Bergerson

Independent Monavie Distributor

Celebrate Good Health with Monavie!

http://www.mymonavie.com/jandrbergerson/

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " Roberg " <trinnea@...>

Over time, as you become more and more educated, you will find

yourself worrying a lot less. For instance, the subject of

vaccinations hardly ever comes up with other parents, so most don't

even know I don't vax. I've never had my two-year-old left out of a

birthday party or other social function because of the issue. It is

more difficult dealing with family that don't understand than it is

dealing with friends and/or strangers on the issue.

Also, if you take the time to step back and quietly observe other

children when you're at the mall or the grocery store, etc. you can

see the damage vaccines are doing all around us. It's everywhere...

If you REALLY pay attention, you do see it... all the allergies, all

the neurological defects, all the ADHD, and even the fussy infant that

was just vaccinated being pushed around in the grocery cart. I was at

the mall the other day and there was a mom pushing a stroller with a

fussy infant in it... I overheard the mother on her cell phone talking

about how her daughter had just had her shots and was not feeling

well... well then WTH are you doing at the MALL with her lady??? My

husband and I also counted as we were going through the mall and we

spotted 16.....SIXTEEN children that had some sort of neurological

abnormality going on, including two that we heard parents specifically

discussing autism about. This was ON A SCHOOL DAY when not many kids

over the age of 4 were in the mall. We were only at the mall 1.5

hours.

With my mother-in-law, she's a " devout " Catholic, and a very active

anti-abortionist, so when I mentioned some vaccines are cultured on

the lung tissue of aborted human fetuses, she shut up and hasn't

broached the subject with me again. She was also very shocked when my

husband quickly started spouting statistics at her that were totally

against everything she was trying to argue. The only arguments she

could put up was that we are irresponsible.... we told her that when

she'd read up and researched the subject as in-depth as I had, then we

MIGHT decide to discuss it with her, but otherwise, her opinion is

noted but we will be the ones that ultimately decide how we raise our

children. Subject dropped.

By the way, my husbands family is RIDDEN with disease.... allergies to

almost everything under the sun (it's easier to tell you what my

husband and each of his 5 siblings are NOT allergic to than it is to

list all their allergies), they ALL have asthma, both parents have

hypertension, etc. I did mention one day that the whole family would

be more healthy if she had taken the initiative to investigate what

she was allowing to be put in their bodies when they were growing

up.... she turned and walked away from me without a word. (I can be a

real bitch when it comes to this subject. hehe) She has had all her

kids in for weekly allergy shots, all vaccines, etc. throughout the

years. She even suffers aches and pains for which the doctors cannot

find a cause, and they have all but accused her of being a

hypochondriac.... I think she's got heavy metal poisoning.

On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 1:58 PM, Rina Barillas <kisses4chuly@...> wrote:

>

>

>

>

> Thank you Winnie for the words of encouragement. I am a worry wort when it

> comes to my daughter as I am sure many parents can be. This is all still so

> new and fresh to me that I do have doubts sometimes.

>

> Rina

[Guest guest]

Because they probably feel convicted that what they are subjecting their

children to is harmful. Deep down inside they know that vaccines cause harm, and

every time they come face-to-face or read about " us, " it makes them

uncomfortable, so they lash out in defense.

Speaking from personal experience having unfortunately vaxed my first two

children, it's not a good feeling having to suppress your maternal instincts

while your child is being held down screaming in pain. And then having to nurse

them through the fevers and misery that would follow for the next few days.

Those who choose to vax their children have to experience this guilt over and

over again.

sisterkris2003 <sisterkris2003@...> wrote:

Hi Winnie,

What I don't understand is, why do people whom are vaccinated care?

As far as they are concerned, they are immune to those 'terrible'

diseases anyway....right?!?!

Kris

>

> That just makes my blood boil to be accused of getting a free ride

on disease protection. I've actually had people say that to me and I

explain that I don't believe vaccines work so why would I think I'm

getting a free ride?? Parasite, indeed. The only parasites are the

money-sucking ones who push vaccines. Okay, I feel better now.

>

> Winnie

---------------------------------

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Hi ka,

Good lord, what nerve your mom in-law has!!! Don't even go there about

having to explain anything to my mom in-law. The only person I have shared my

views with SOMEWHAT is my own mother because I know she wouldn't judge or jump

down my throat without hearing my side! I thank you once again for your support

and I really look up to you. I know I don't know you personally, but from all

your posts and your personal e-mails to me, I really take them to heart.

Rina

Roberg <trinnea@...> wrote:

Over time, as you become more and more educated, you will find

yourself worrying a lot less. For instance, the subject of

vaccinations hardly ever comes up with other parents, so most don't

even know I don't vax. I've never had my two-year-old left out of a

birthday party or other social function because of the issue. It is

more difficult dealing with family that don't understand than it is

dealing with friends and/or strangers on the issue.

Also, if you take the time to step back and quietly observe other

children when you're at the mall or the grocery store, etc. you can

see the damage vaccines are doing all around us. It's everywhere...

If you REALLY pay attention, you do see it... all the allergies, all

the neurological defects, all the ADHD, and even the fussy infant that

was just vaccinated being pushed around in the grocery cart. I was at

the mall the other day and there was a mom pushing a stroller with a

fussy infant in it... I overheard the mother on her cell phone talking

about how her daughter had just had her shots and was not feeling

well... well then WTH are you doing at the MALL with her lady??? My

husband and I also counted as we were going through the mall and we

spotted 16.....SIXTEEN children that had some sort of neurological

abnormality going on, including two that we heard parents specifically

discussing autism about. This was ON A SCHOOL DAY when not many kids

over the age of 4 were in the mall. We were only at the mall 1.5

hours.

With my mother-in-law, she's a " devout " Catholic, and a very active

anti-abortionist, so when I mentioned some vaccines are cultured on

the lung tissue of aborted human fetuses, she shut up and hasn't

broached the subject with me again. She was also very shocked when my

husband quickly started spouting statistics at her that were totally

against everything she was trying to argue. The only arguments she

could put up was that we are irresponsible.... we told her that when

she'd read up and researched the subject as in-depth as I had, then we

MIGHT decide to discuss it with her, but otherwise, her opinion is

noted but we will be the ones that ultimately decide how we raise our

children. Subject dropped.

By the way, my husbands family is RIDDEN with disease.... allergies to

almost everything under the sun (it's easier to tell you what my

husband and each of his 5 siblings are NOT allergic to than it is to

list all their allergies), they ALL have asthma, both parents have

hypertension, etc. I did mention one day that the whole family would

be more healthy if she had taken the initiative to investigate what

she was allowing to be put in their bodies when they were growing

up.... she turned and walked away from me without a word. (I can be a

real bitch when it comes to this subject. hehe) She has had all her

kids in for weekly allergy shots, all vaccines, etc. throughout the

years. She even suffers aches and pains for which the doctors cannot

find a cause, and they have all but accused her of being a

hypochondriac.... I think she's got heavy metal poisoning.

On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 1:58 PM, Rina Barillas <kisses4chuly@...> wrote:

>

>

>

>

> Thank you Winnie for the words of encouragement. I am a worry wort when it

> comes to my daughter as I am sure many parents can be. This is all still so

> new and fresh to me that I do have doubts sometimes.

>

> Rina

Rina Barillas

---------------------------------

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

I don't think they really figure anything at all Roni. Because all these people

would have to be lacking in logic to have put any real thought into it and come

to the conclusions they come to. They are all just repeating comments they have

heard elsewhere, starting with doctors. This is an example of how powerful

propaganda can be. Until a person starts digging for themselves, they are

mostly oblivious to the evil side of vaccinating. It is covered up pretty well,

and swept under the carpet pretty quickly when exposed. I personally was never

aware, until a friend asked me to do some research for him. He was the first to

ever mention negative things about vaxing, and only because of the Wakefield

saga.

Personally, I don't feel that vaccines work at all. It simply comes down to the

persons susceptibility if they come down with a disease vaxed or not. You hear

that sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. Hit and miss in other words.

If anything, the vaxed kids are a danger to ours, because when they get

vaccinated they may shed the manufactured virus and give it to others. But at

the end of the day, most people think their doctors are god, and honestly

believe anything they say, without a second thought.

Fieldman

Re: Re: According to NY Times, we are " parasites "

From what I can gather it has to do with the failure rate of vaccines. If they

vaccinate their child and it fails, they're just as much at risk as they claim

our children are for being purposefully not vaccinated - only they're not aware

of their risk since they assume the vaccines work and they have no way of

knowing if it failed or not. I guess they figure the risk to their child is less

if everyone is vaccinated, taking the failure rate into account, the percentage

needed to maintain herd immunity would still be maintained.

--

Roni Bergerson

Independent Monavie Distributor

Celebrate Good Health with Monavie!

http://www.mymonavie.com/jandrbergerson/

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[Guest guest]

Wow Roni!

An excellent response, it isn't anyone's business, you're right.

We never run into problems either, very rarely discuss the fact that

we haven't vaxxed our kids. And schools aren't allowed to tell other

parents, so really, no one needs to know.

Kris

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Thank you Winnie for the words of encouragement. I am a worry wort

when it

> > comes to my daughter as I am sure many parents can be. This is all

still so

> > new and fresh to me that I do have doubts sometimes.

> >

> > Rina

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is SUCH a true statement. My sister-in-law and I had babies within 3

months of each other two years ago. As I was doing my research, I sent her

a couple of articles on the vaccine issue... nothing too invasive, just

general articles that I was hoping would make her want to investigate the

matter further.

This was her response to me:

" Also, when we immunized {her daughter}, we were informed by the doctor of

all risks involved. We also read about the risks in our " What to Expect: The

First Year " . I don't agree with you when you say that the drug companies

write it off as a coincidence; we were well informed of the risks. We feel

that the risks did not outweigh the benefits of immunizing her. "

Sad that she thinks she was truly informed by her doc, or that " What to

Expect " would hold any water in the quest for the truth regarding vaccines,

or anything else. That she thinks the one or two paragraphs that address

vaccine in her little book of general baby/toddler information outweighs

thousands of hours spent researching medical journal articles and reading

countless books that deal with nothing but the subject of vaccine shows just

how brainwashed the American Public really is.

On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 3:38 PM, Fieldman <lisafieldman@...>

wrote:

> I don't think they really figure anything at all Roni. Because all these

people would have to be lacking in logic to have put any real thought into

it and come to the conclusions they come to. They are all just repeating

comments they have heard elsewhere, starting with doctors. This is an

example of how powerful propaganda can be. Until a person starts digging for

themselves, they are mostly oblivious to the evil side of vaccinating. It is

covered up pretty well, and swept under the carpet pretty quickly when

exposed. I personally was never aware, until a friend asked me to do some

research for him. He was the first to ever mention negative things about

vaxing, and only because of the Wakefield saga.

[Guest guest]

i was almost as informed on vaxes as i thought i was about birth the

first go-round.

i agree w/ the PP that mentioned the ongoing guilt a mom has about

holding down her baby to be vaxed. but the ongoing guilt from

watching my son suffer damage due to the choices i made, thinking i

was informed... that's gut wrenching.

b/c of my son's damage, i don't get 'flack' from chosing to not vax

anymore b/c they 'understand' then. it's just so shocking to me,

after i started looking into the frequency of what my son went thru,

to find SOOOOOO much there, & for there to still be so

many 'untouched' enough to think it never happens.

but, to those talking about others knowing you don't vax... i guess

i'm kinda surprised b/c except for a handful of conversations (most

stemming from my son's damage) vaxing has never even BEEN a topic.

the only people that know we don't vax are those we CHOSE to tell.

my mom being the main one b/c she was the one i turned to when cj

started 'changing'. but none of DH's family knows (think he may have

told them recently? not sure), none but one friend of ours knows &

that was b/c i was asking questions about their ped they'd suggested

we use when we moved here. & we've been involved w/ many play

groups, etc & the topic had never come up either. so i guess i don't

understand how SO many people know you don't vax your kids if you're

afraid of how they'll react?

to me it seems almost like birth choices, & the frequency i hear moms

talking about everyone being against their birthing choices &

stressing over the fact. my birth choices were never a topic. of

course everyone always asked the same general questions (if we knew

the sex, where we were delivering, etc) & preg #2 i was originally

planning a homebirth, so when the questions pertained to 'what our

dr. said', i told them what our midwife said, w/o

specifying " midwife " . no one knew anything! honestly b/c it's none

of their business. they don't know if we BF or not, or if we do this

or that, so why publish your birth choices or vax stances if you

think/know it won't be recieved well? kwim?

i totally understand trying to educate others, but if you don't think

it's going to be recieved well or are afraid of how your child will

be viewed, then why does everyone know this about them?

~marcia~

[Guest guest]

There will lots of new, fun things to worry about as they get older, too. It's

good to have doubts--it's called thinking. Good parents are supposed to do that!

Winnie

Re: According to NY Times, we are " parasites "

> Vaccinations

>

> > This is the part that scares me the most about deciding to

> stop

> > all further vaccinations for my daughter is just how " looked

> > down " upon we are as parents for making this decision. Not

> only

> > that i just hate to think how some cruel, stuck up, un-

> informed

> > parent in my daughter's school will look at my daughter and

> the

> > fact that her mommy doesn't vaccinate her and much of a risk

> she

> > would be to have around for the kids who do get posions in

> their

> > body. I normally can care less what anyone thinks about

> anything

> > I do or say but when you have a little person who can be

> > ostracized by others for your decision, that hurts my heart!

> > Ironically enough it is still not enough to change my choices

> > and all I can think about is not poisoning my baby girl anymore!

> >

> > sisterkris2003 wrote: The

> > article I am referring to came out yesterday, March 20, 2008

> > Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/21/us/21vaccine.html

> > " Public Health Risk Seen as Parents Reject Vaccines "

> >

> > Quoted from the article:

> > " The very success of immunizations has turned out to be an Achilles'

> > heel, " said Dr. Mark Sawyer, a pediatrician and infectious disease

> > specialist at Rady Children's Hospital in San Diego. " Most of these

> > parents have never seen measles, and don't realize it could be

> a bad

> > disease so they turn their concerns to unfounded risks. They

> do not

> > perceive risk of the disease but perceive risk of the vaccine. "

> >

> > Dr. Sawyer and the vast majority of pediatricians believe strongly

> > that vaccinations are the cornerstone of sound public health. Many

> > doctors view the so-called exempters as parasites, of a sort,

> > benefiting from the otherwise inoculated majority. "

> > --------

> >

> > I don't consider it " sound public health " to load up the

> > vaccines with

> > toxins that cause innumerable side-effects, Autism, Alzheimer's

> > Disease, auto-immune disorders, allergies, etc...(and that's

> > just the

> > A-list)!

> >

> > Kris4

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Rina Barillas

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with

> > Search.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I agree, Kris. The reason I'm usually given by those parents is that vaccines

don't work 100%. I say, then take the risk? The usual response is they feel it's

better than doing nothing. They have faith, and yet they don't. It's irrational.

Winnie

According to NY Times, we are " parasites "

> > Vaccinations

> >

> > > The article I am referring to came out yesterday, March 20, 2008

> > > Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/21/us/21vaccine.html

> > > " Public Health Risk Seen as Parents Reject Vaccines "

> > >

> > > Quoted from the article:

> > > " The very success of immunizations has turned out to be an

> Achilles'> > heel, " said Dr. Mark Sawyer, a pediatrician and

> infectious disease

> > > specialist at Rady Children's Hospital in San Diego. " Most

> of these

> > > parents have never seen measles, and don't realize it could

> be a bad

> > > disease so they turn their concerns to unfounded risks. They

> do not

> > > perceive risk of the disease but perceive risk of the vaccine. "

> > >

> > > Dr. Sawyer and the vast majority of pediatricians believe strongly

> > > that vaccinations are the cornerstone of sound public

> health. Many

> > > doctors view the so-called exempters as parasites, of a sort,

> > > benefiting from the otherwise inoculated majority. "

> > > --------

> > >

> > > I don't consider it " sound public health " to load up the

> > > vaccines with

> > > toxins that cause innumerable side-effects, Autism, Alzheimer's

> > > Disease, auto-immune disorders, allergies, etc...(and that's

> > > just the

> > > A-list)!

> > >

> > > Kris4

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Good point. Some part of them knows they're taking a gamble and it doesn't feel

good. I can remember feeling that way, holding my breath that there wouldn't be

a reaction but feeling I had no choice but to go through it. After all, that's

what good parents did. We were brave in order to protect our children. No one

wants to hear it was for nothing.

Winnie

Re: Re: According to NY Times, we are " parasites "

Vaccinations

> Because they probably feel convicted that what they are

> subjecting their children to is harmful. Deep down inside they

> know that vaccines cause harm, and every time they come face-to-

> face or read about " us, " it makes them uncomfortable, so they

> lash out in defense.

>

> Speaking from personal experience having unfortunately vaxed

> my first two children, it's not a good feeling having to

> suppress your maternal instincts while your child is being held

> down screaming in pain. And then having to nurse them through

> the fevers and misery that would follow for the next few days.

> Those who choose to vax their children have to experience this

> guilt over and over again.

>

>

>

> sisterkris2003 wrote:

>

> Hi Winnie,

> What I don't understand is, why do people whom are vaccinated

> care?

> As far as they are concerned, they are immune to those 'terrible'

> diseases anyway....right?!?!

>

> Kris

>

>

> >

> > That just makes my blood boil to be accused of getting a free ride

> on disease protection. I've actually had people say that to me

> and I

> explain that I don't believe vaccines work so why would I think I'm

> getting a free ride?? Parasite, indeed. The only parasites are the

> money-sucking ones who push vaccines. Okay, I feel better now.

> >

> > Winnie

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with

> Mobile. Try it now.

>

>

[Guest guest]

What I've found with the few parents I've asked (mosly family) it that they

are competely unaware that vaccines don't work 100% of the time. They think

I'm absurd for even suggesting they might not be fully protected by their

precious vaccines. This is exactly what BigPharm and the medical morons

want you to believe, so that when you do fall ill, it's not their fault, but

you still need them, so go on in and get further misguided information to

help keep you ill and keep lining their greedy pockets! If EVERYONE were

clued in to the truth, they'd go out of business!

On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 9:13 PM, <wharrison@...> wrote:

> I agree, Kris. The reason I'm usually given by those parents is that

vaccines don't work 100%. I say, then take the risk? The usual response is

they feel it's better than doing nothing. They have faith, and yet they

don't. It's irrational.

>

>

> Winnie

[Guest guest]

Here's a sad example: there was an article about a local family whose child has

some affliction or another--can't remember as it was a couple of years ago. But

it struck my that vaccines were behind it whatever it was (I think he was

paralyzed).

Anyway, I stuck my nosy nose into it and called them. The father said yes, they

do believe vaccines were the cause, the doctors agreed with that, too, but they

still planned to vaccinate him on schedule. I was almost speechless. I said you

know the vaccines caused it and yet you'll give him more? May I ask why?

Because he needs protection more than ever due to his fragile state, I was told.

With the truth staring them in the face in the form of their severely disabled

child, their blind faith in vaccines won out. It's mortifying.

Winnie

Re: Re: According to NY Times, we are

> " parasites "

>

> From what I can gather it has to do with the failure rate of

> vaccines. If they vaccinate their child and it fails, they're

> just as much at risk as they claim our children are for being

> purposefully not vaccinated - only they're not aware of their

> risk since they assume the vaccines work and they have no way of

> knowing if it failed or not. I guess they figure the risk to

> their child is less if everyone is vaccinated, taking the

> failure rate into account, the percentage needed to maintain

> herd immunity would still be maintained.

>

> --

> Roni Bergerson

> Independent Monavie Distributor

> Celebrate Good Health with Monavie!

> http://www.mymonavie.com/jandrbergerson/

>

> Groups related to Vaccinations

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>

> 114 common members

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>

[Guest guest]

I have one better/worse, SAD, I mentioned it before a few times over the

past few years.

The Optometrist our family went to, his daughter died from them, and they

KNEW it was the vaccinations, they KNEW it, I asked them because it was when

I was doing research and that was the last straw that clinched it, I would

no longer have my son injected with that crap. I worked over the years with

his wife, and SHE STILL HAD HER FIRST DAUGHTER AND THE NEXT TWO she had

after the one that died VACCINATED! WHAT !?!?!?!? I asked her how she

could do that after her precious daughter DIED... " well we do the shots at MY

schedule, not all together like they want " Then found out her husband was

on the school board, so he probably pressured her into it. She is a wreck

most of the time, and their kids go to a Catholic school, and I KNOW they

will not let you in until you vaccinate. I had my now 14 yr in their

pre-kindergarten, he was there a week and was told he had to have his MMR,

I said no, and they said he can't come any more. FINE with me! See you

later, bye!

It's so sad....so sad...these people lost a precious child and they are

still bullied into it.

Western NY

-- Re: Re: According to NY Times, we are " parasites "

Here's a sad example: there was an article about a local family whose child

has some affliction or another--can't remember as it was a couple of years

ago. But it struck my that vaccines were behind it whatever it was (I think

he was paralyzed).

Anyway, I stuck my nosy nose into it and called them. The father said yes,

they do believe vaccines were the cause, the doctors agreed with that, too,

but they still planned to vaccinate him on schedule. I was almost speechless

I said you know the vaccines caused it and yet you'll give him more? May I

ask why?

Because he needs protection more than ever due to his fragile state, I was

told.

With the truth staring them in the face in the form of their severely

disabled child, their blind faith in vaccines won out. It's mortifying.

Winnie

Re: Re: According to NY Times, we are

> " parasites "

>

> From what I can gather it has to do with the failure rate of

> vaccines. If they vaccinate their child and it fails, they're

> just as much at risk as they claim our children are for being

> purposefully not vaccinated - only they're not aware of their

> risk since they assume the vaccines work and they have no way of

> knowing if it failed or not. I guess they figure the risk to

> their child is less if everyone is vaccinated, taking the

> failure rate into account, the percentage needed to maintain

> herd immunity would still be maintained.

>

> --

> Roni Bergerson

> Independent Monavie Distributor

> Celebrate Good Health with Monavie!

> http://www.mymonavie.com/jandrbergerson/

>

> Groups related to Vaccinations

> FlyLadyMentors

> 160 common members

> (Home and Garden/Homemaking)

> Are YOU living in CHAOS (Can't Have Anyone Over Sy...

> AP_Doctor_Referral

> 160 common members

> (Parenting/Attachment Parenting)

> Finding a doctor that is supportive of attachment ...

>

> 114 common members

> (Diseases and Conditions/Autism)

> To discuss current issues related to the increasin...

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> 109 common members

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>

> to share and learn.

>

> Sitebuilder

> Build a web site

>

> quickly & easily

>

> with Sitebuilder.

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>

>

[Guest guest]

That is truly sad. Maybe on some level she's still trying to justify that the

shots were okay to alleviate any guilt over it. Losing a child, I'm sure,

affected her views in ways we can't know.

Winnie

Re: Re: According to NY Times, we are

> > " parasites "

> >

> > From what I can gather it has to do with the failure rate of

> > vaccines. If they vaccinate their child and it fails, they're

> > just as much at risk as they claim our children are for being

> > purposefully not vaccinated - only they're not aware of their

> > risk since they assume the vaccines work and they have no way

> of

> > knowing if it failed or not. I guess they figure the risk to

> > their child is less if everyone is vaccinated, taking the

> > failure rate into account, the percentage needed to maintain

> > herd immunity would still be maintained.

> >

> > --

> > Roni Bergerson

> > Independent Monavie Distributor

> > Celebrate Good Health with Monavie!

> > http://www.mymonavie.com/jandrbergerson/

> >

> > Groups related to Vaccinations

> > FlyLadyMentors

> > 160 common members

> > (Home and Garden/Homemaking)

> > Are YOU living in CHAOS (Can't Have Anyone Over Sy...

> > AP_Doctor_Referral

> > 160 common members

> > (Parenting/Attachment Parenting)

> > Finding a doctor that is supportive of attachment ...

> >

> > 114 common members

> > (Diseases and Conditions/Autism)

> > To discuss current issues related to the increasin...

> > rawfeeding

> > 109 common members

> > (Dogs/Diet and Nutrition)

> > Let's feed raw now! There's an awesome amount of k...

> > GFCFKids

> > 80 common members

> > (Diseases and Conditions/Autism)

> > This list is unmoderated and unrestricted. The pri...

> > Recent Activity

> > a.. 17New Members

> > Visit Your Group

> > Health

> > Heartburn or Worse

> >

> > What symptoms

> >

> > are most serious?

> >

> > Meditation and

> > Lovingkindness

> >

> > A Group

> >

> > to share and learn.

> >

> > Sitebuilder

> > Build a web site

> >

> > quickly & easily

> >

> > with Sitebuilder.

> > .

> >

> >

> >