What Gives?

June 27, 2008

I'm really starting to be skeptical of the value of this list. If I'm not

going to blindly follow someone who went to medical school for 6 years then

why the heck would I blindly follow random people on the internet?

IMHO, NOT vaccinating for fear of side effects is JUST AS BAD as vaccinating

for fear of disease! Isn't there anyone here who actually educated

themselves prior to making the decision not to vax?

-Lana

" There is nothing more useful than sun and salt. " - Latin proverb

June 27, 2008

Thanks ,

I hadn't realized the value of having a support group - I don't know anyone

not vaxing other than myself.

I guess I'm just a bit frazzled as I'm running out of time to get this last

bit squared away and I'm the type that likes to meticulously review

everything before making a choice. (Can you tell I'm a libra? )

-Lana

" There is nothing more useful than sun and salt. " - Latin proverb

On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 1:30 PM, <lvmy2kats@...> wrote:

> I guess it depends on what exactly you're looking for and expecting from

> this list. For me,

> the people on this board provide support for my prior decision to not vax,

> support which I

> would not otherwise have. I only know 1 person personally who doesn't vax.

> Everyone

> else doesn't see a problem with it, though I have educated my mother enough

> that she

> now agrees w/me that not vaxing is good. Personally, I did my research and

> decided not

> to vax. It was some time later that I found this group. I read other

> people's comments

> and it helps me to feel that I've made a good decision, when everyone else

> would say

> otherwise. Also, people frequently post websites for information -

> websites I didn't

> previously know about. Or book titles. I wouldn't expect to come to this

> list and read

> everyone's experiences and decide not to vax based on that alone. Although

> their

> experiences certainly would lead me to do some research.

>

June 27, 2008

>

> I'm really starting to be skeptical of the value of this list.

**** As is your right. I suppose if I demanded information and did

not receive it in what I considered to be a timely fashion, or with

information that I deemed " science " I might feel the same way. But I

suppose the difference between you and I, is that I don't expect the

people who volunteer their time on this list to be responsible for my

education. In the end, it's not them making vaccine decisions. Or

in this case, Vitamin K. If you have an irrational fear of getting

into an automobile accident (not your fault of course) and think your

child will bleed to death because you forewent the shot at the

hospital, then get it.

If I'm not

> going to blindly follow someone who went to medical school for 6

years then

> why the heck would I blindly follow random people on the internet?

*** Where has this EVER been suggested? Are you insinuating that

people are so " blind " that they cannot go their OWN way? If not, you

should rephrase your statement, because as is, it's egotistical and

offensive.

>

> IMHO, NOT vaccinating for fear of side effects is JUST AS BAD as

vaccinating

> for fear of disease! Isn't there anyone here who actually educated

> themselves prior to making the decision not to vax?

*** Well yes <raises hand>. What does this have to do with you? I'm

not vaccinating, not because of fear, but because it corrupts the

immune system and is an abomination of nature. Has absolutely

nothing to do with fear.

June 27, 2008

I have spent the better part of three years educating myself on the

decision of whether to vax or not (or use vit k, eye goops, etc. at

childbirth), and compared to others on this list, I'm a green pea...

how long have you been researching for yourself? This is not a

strong-arm society -- as opposed to the medical community who use

strong-arm tactics everyday to coerce parents to vax against their

will or before they've had an opportunity to study the facts. Nobody

here is expecting you to blindly follow anyone... do your own

research and come to your own conclusions.

Let's see, the value of this list? Well, I'm certain everyone is here

for their own set of reasons. Here are mine:

1. AFTER having already spent years researching and drawing MY OWN

conclusions, I was looking for a forum that would support my beliefs

and help me further my knowledge on the subject. This forum does that

VERY well. I learn something new on the subject almost daily, in an

environment that allows me the opportunity to have my opinion without

judging me, but actually SUPPORTS me. I am surround with people that

support me in real life now, too, but that hasn't always been the

case.

2. It's all about the children. Anything I can do to help others

become educated on the subject of vaccines, I will do. This forum is

a place that a lot of parents come when they are first starting their

research and don't know where to turn first, or next. I like being

able to support them as they start down the path I've already trampled

down. I'm hoping that my presence and support here will make it

easier on them than it was on me when I was researching and being

ridiculed by friends and family at every turn for having a mind of my

own instead of blindly following the masses.

In order to make a difference in this world for our children, we have

to take some steps to make it a safer, better place for them. First,

we have to stop interfering with nature in the childbirth process.

Our bodies were created with the notion that our race would survive.

Who am I to judge God's design and try to improve upon it? Second, we

HAVE to stop poisoning our children, and that starts by EDUCATING

parents on the drugs and vaccines that are pushed on children a daily

basis from the moment they're born. The big pharmaceutical companies

have preyed on parent's fears for many, many years, using the medical

community and government as their pawns to line their pocket books.

Fear is a very powerful motivator. What parent doesn't want to

protect their child at all costs? BigPharma knows this and relies on

this. They also rely on the fact that we, as a race, are lazy and

don't want to do research of our own, or think we are incapable of

drawing our own conclusions against " someone who went to medical

school for 6 years " . They'd rather we stay ignorant and blindly be

herded like sheep. Well, I'm here to herd as many " sheep " as I can to

safer pastures! I'm here to say Moms and Dads, you DO have brains and

are capable of looking at facts and making your own decisions, and

your doctor is a human NOT a god!

And no, deciding not to vax based on fear of side effects ISN'T " JUST

AS BAD " as vaxing for fear of disease. Why? Because you can't take

back an injection once it's given. So if you decide to vax based

solely on fear and then decide it wasn't a smart move for your kid,

sorry... no do-overs in this game! It's better to delay now and vax

later if you choose (hopefully after becoming educated on the vaccine

AND the disease it is purported to prevent) than to vax blindly now

and hope for the best. Again, that's fear driving you to do something

irrational. Fear is so, so powerful.

If you're so fearful of getting in a car accident on the way home from

the hospital, why not take the car ride completely out of the

equation? Have a home birth -- It's safer all around anyway! I

decided when I was 32 weeks pregnant with my first son to bag the

hospital and have a home birth and I was SO, SO glad I did. It was

the best experience of my life. I went on to birth my second son at

home, too. Not only did I feel safe and secure in the environment of

my own home, but I was able to bond with my child in my own bed that

night, and I didn't have to worry about any hospital staff injecting

anything into my babies when I wasn't looking.

I'm sorry if you feel you haven't found what you're looking for on

this list. If you feel that way, then maybe this community isn't

right for you. However, I do hope you decide that it IS right, that

you want to know where to look to find answers to your questions, and

that you ultimately feel comforted in your decisions here. Above all,

I hope that you have the birth that YOU want for your child, that your

child is safe, sound and happy. After all, it's still all about the

children!

PS: It sounds to me like you're battling with a lot of fear in your

life. May I suggest that you find a HypnoBirthing coach or a good

Hypnotherapist? They can take you through what is called a " fear

release session " that is designed to get those ghosts and cobwebs out

of your brain that are causing the fear, so that you can experience

more peace in your daily life, as well as during childbirth. Email me

off-list or on the OT4VAX list if you'd like more info on

HypnoBirthing.

On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 12:00 PM, Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote:

> IMHO, NOT vaccinating for fear of side effects is JUST AS BAD as vaccinating

> for fear of disease! Isn't there anyone here who actually educated

> themselves prior to making the decision not to vax?

>

> -Lana

June 27, 2008

Wow , that was really good

I just want to add that after learning about the diseases, like

pertussis, measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, that I am really not

afraid of them. Of course if my child got sick with anything I would

be worried because that is normal. If my son ever gets any of these

diseases (actually, I hope he DOES get some of them eventually,) I

would be confident that his intact immune system would defeat them

and then even get stronger. My biggest fear was meningitis, but now

that I know that vaccinated children are at a much higher risk from

getting any type of meningitis, I know not vaxing is the best

prevention (same with polio,) and I've read many things which have

given me reason to believe that meningitis is a vaccine side effect

anyways.

I have absolutely no fear of vaccine side effects since I do not

vaccinate my son it would be IMPOSSIBLE for him to ever be vaccine

injured.

Knowledge replaces fear. As far as worrying for your children, that

will never go away, that is our job.

> > IMHO, NOT vaccinating for fear of side effects is JUST AS BAD as

vaccinating

> > for fear of disease! Isn't there anyone here who actually educated

> > themselves prior to making the decision not to vax?

> >

> > -Lana

>

June 27, 2008

Lana, you're quite welcome. I certainly recall what it's like sifting thru all

this information,

not to mention all the information relating to birthing and post-birth.

Frazzled is

definitely one way of putting it. I certainly didn't have any support back

then, except for

my husband.

>

> > I guess it depends on what exactly you're looking for and expecting from

> > this list. For me,

> > the people on this board provide support for my prior decision to not vax,

> > support which I

> > would not otherwise have. I only know 1 person personally who doesn't vax.

> > Everyone

> > else doesn't see a problem with it, though I have educated my mother enough

> > that she

> > now agrees w/me that not vaxing is good. Personally, I did my research and

> > decided not

> > to vax. It was some time later that I found this group. I read other

> > people's comments

> > and it helps me to feel that I've made a good decision, when everyone else

> > would say

> > otherwise. Also, people frequently post websites for information -

> > websites I didn't

> > previously know about. Or book titles. I wouldn't expect to come to this

> > list and read

> > everyone's experiences and decide not to vax based on that alone. Although

> > their

> > experiences certainly would lead me to do some research.

> >

>

June 27, 2008

Lana...my sister is due with her first baby July 18th and we are so

excited. She has been listening to me talk about my extensive

vaccine research for the past year and a half and has decided not to

vaccinate her baby. She has also done research on her own, but not

as much as I would have liked her to do. So, I fear when she goes to

the doctor for the 2 month baby check up that the doctor will

convince her to vaccinate. I told her, if at that point she is

uncertain, that she can demand the vaccine package inserts for each

vaccine and she has the right to take them home and read them

thoroughly before making the decision. If she still decides the

doctor was too convincing, then she can go back within a couple days

and vaccinate, but that she does not have to do it right at that

moment. When I went to my baby's 2 month check up the doctor made it

sound like if I didn't vaccinate in that second that my baby would

probably die from some horrible disease that very night...so I caved

in and agreed to 4 vaccines, while at that point my doctor said it

was ok for not doing the hep B and polio since they aren't necessary

anyways. After that I felt so guilty and knew I had done the wrong

thing, especially since they then hand you the list of possible side

effects (including seizures, death, and so on) AFTER they administer

the vaccines. So I did more research and realized my gut instint was

right and I had in fact done the wrong thing for my son. At his 4

month check up I told my doctor straight up that he is to receive no

more vaccines and he was fine with it, in fact he didn't push it at

all. At his 6 month check up no vaxes either and his new doctor was

totally cool with it. Hasn't been to the doctor since.

>

> > I guess it depends on what exactly you're looking for and

expecting from

> > this list. For me,

> > the people on this board provide support for my prior decision to

not vax,

> > support which I

> > would not otherwise have. I only know 1 person personally who

doesn't vax.

> > Everyone

> > else doesn't see a problem with it, though I have educated my

mother enough

> > that she

> > now agrees w/me that not vaxing is good. Personally, I did my

research and

> > decided not

> > to vax. It was some time later that I found this group. I read

other

> > people's comments

> > and it helps me to feel that I've made a good decision, when

everyone else

> > would say

> > otherwise. Also, people frequently post websites for

information -

> > websites I didn't

> > previously know about. Or book titles. I wouldn't expect to

come to this

> > list and read

> > everyone's experiences and decide not to vax based on that

alone. Although

> > their

> > experiences certainly would lead me to do some research.

> >

>

June 27, 2008

,

I was just curious if anyone had, that's all.

-Lana

> *** Well yes <raises hand>. What does this have to do with you? I'm

> not vaccinating, not because of fear, but because it corrupts the

> immune system and is an abomination of nature. Has absolutely

> nothing to do with fear.

>

June 27, 2008

On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 3:18 PM, Roberg <trinnea@...> wrote:

> I have spent the better part of three years educating myself on the

> decision of whether to vax or not (or use vit k, eye goops, etc. at

> childbirth), and compared to others on this list, I'm a green pea...

> how long have you been researching for yourself?

4 years on and off.

> Nobody

> here is expecting you to blindly follow anyone... do your own

> research and come to your own conclusions.

>

I've been working on that - it just seems every time I think I know

something, I learn something more that makes me need to learn even more.

> Let's see, the value of this list? Well, I'm certain everyone is here

> for their own set of reasons. Here are mine:

>

Thank you for this list.

If you're so fearful of getting in a car accident on the way home from

> the hospital, why not take the car ride completely out of the

> equation? Have a home birth -- It's safer all around anyway!

I was aiming to have a home birth when I was still living in NC -

unfortunately, life's circumstances made it so we had to abruptly move in

with family in FL and well... no home birth.

> I'm sorry if you feel you haven't found what you're looking for on

> this list. If you feel that way, then maybe this community isn't

> right for you. However, I do hope you decide that it IS right, that

> you want to know where to look to find answers to your questions, and

> that you ultimately feel comforted in your decisions here.

Thanks , I hadn't realized the comfort value of this list but I'm

definitely starting to feel it now!

> PS: It sounds to me like you're battling with a lot of fear in your

> life.

Actually, very little fear in my life, thankfully. I'm pretty bomb proof

since I got over the mercury poisoning. Just having some first-time-mother

jitters take over now that my little girl is almost here.

Thanks!

-Lana

June 27, 2008

I use this email list as a continual support group. I have been on it for

10 or 11 years I think and continue to read the latest research, what is

going on in our gov't and other countries, and try to stay informed. Most

of the time I delete away the emails, but there have been countless times

that I have gotten support in how to deal with vaccine and other health

related issues, along with invaluable homeopathy and other immune boosting

advice so I could deal with vaccine " preventable " illnesses.

L.

June 27, 2008

Oh, yea. I did EXTENSIVE research prior to having my kids. That is why

they are not vax. I am on this list for new research and also to talk

to others in a non-thertaning manner. Where I can freely share and

ask ??'s about this or that.

June 29, 2008

I don't see the original message here, but I recall an email referring to

researching vaccines.

Yes, they absolutely have. Why would you ask that? It should be pretty clear