Guest guest Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 Right on. Its called iatrogenics. Diseases and Deaths caused by doctors and hospitals. And we are not just talking about mistakes. You can't repair, heal or cure the human body with poisons. When people understand that germs/viruses do not cause disease and stop taking drugs everyone will be healthier. If you are sick and take no drugs your quality of life will be better. THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except according to the statistics created by those in the business of promoting these products. When someone dies from this stuff called " medicine " , doctors are well versed in how to cover up. The death certificate might read " heart failure " . When some dies from the flu shot, which happens more often than you think, once again the death certificate might read " heart failure " . The drug companies manage to keep a clean slate. I find that the number one cause of sickness, disease, premature death, birth defects and crime in our society is medicinal drugs. Unexplainable mass murders are not caused by those who failed to take their medicine, but by those who did take it. Children who kill are not children who failed to take their prozac. They are children who did take it. Nothing causes more depression than anti-depressants. The Jefferey Dahmers of the world are almost always those who took their medicine, or the products of mothers who took theirs. We can stop the high rate of crime, the diseases for which no cure can be found, even the budget deficit, by stopping the use of drugs or that stuff called " medicine " . It is the number one cause of our nations earth shattering problems and in time, will prove to be the number one cause of the pollution of the earth's water supply. From: www.medicine- no.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 couldn't agee with you more. If you want to stay healthy avoid your MD unless absolutely necessary. (I say that somewhat tongue in cheek) However there is good reason to use allopathic medicine judiciously. Life Extension, an online health digest, reported that medicine is the #1 killer in the US(to the tune of 780,000 lives in 2004). I doubt that the numbers have changed much....at least for the good. I will check to see if there are any updated statistics. Dynamic Chiropractic - June 3, 2004, Volume 22, Issue 12 Page printed from: http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/22/12/16.html Indictment of the American Medical System " Death by Medicine " 1 is an eye-opening paper published as a Web exclusive in the March 2004 issue of Life Extension, a monthly magazine dedicated to " upto-date coverage of the latest scientific and medical breakthroughs from around the world. " As the grim title suggests, the paper explores the hazards of conventional medicine in the United States, analyzing and combining the complete published literature to date regarding injuries and deaths attributable to medicine. In their introduction, the authors note: " Never before have the complete statistics on the multiple causes of iatrogenesis been combined in one paper. Medical science amasses tens of thousands of papers annually - each one a tiny fragment of the whole picture.... Each specialty, each division of medicine, keeps their own records and data on morbidity and mortality like pieces of a puzzle. But the numbers and statistics were always hiding in plain sight. We have now completed the painstaking work of reviewing thousands and thousands of studies. Finally putting the puzzle together, we came up with some disturbing answers. " The " disturbing answers " the five researchers uncover are an indictment of the entire American medical system: -- " The total number of deaths caused by conventional medicine is an astounding 783,936 per year. " -- " The number of people having in-hospital, adverse drug reactions (ADR)to prescribed medicine is 2.2 million. " -- " Besser, of the CDC, in 1995, said the number of unnecessary antibiotics prescribed annually for viral infections was 20 million. Dr.Besser, in 2003, now refers to tens of millions of unnecessary antibiotics. " -- " The number of unnecessary medical and surgical procedures performed annually is 7.5 million. " -- " The number of people exposed to unnecessary hospitalization annually is 8.9 million. " -- " It is evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the United States. " The authors are especially concerned that " (a)s few as 5% and only up to 20% of iatrogenic acts are ever reported. " ion per year. As if this information isn't startling enough, the paper goes on to review the drug industry world. The authors discuss the dangers of many types of drugs and how their overuse is affecting our health and our environment. Next, they discuss the dangers of surgical procedures, the lack of error reporting and unnecessary hospitalization. The paper concludes with a discussion of how women are mistreated by medicine, and the dangers awaiting the unsuspecting elderly: " A total of 20% of all deaths from all causes occur in nursing homes. " The complete text of " Death by Medicine " can be found online at www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/mar2004_awsi_death_01.html. More than 150 references and an extensive appendix support the discussions and conclusions presented in this paper. While many will find it quite disturbing, every health care provider and every patient should read this paper. Reference 1. Null, PhD, Carolyn Dean, MD ND, Feldman, MD, Debora Rasio, MD, Dorothy , PhD. " Death by Medicine. " Life Extension March 2004 (Web exclusive). > > Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and > vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be > abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except > according to the statistics created by those in the business of > promoting these products. When someone dies from this stuff > called " medicine " , doctors are well versed in how to cover up. The > death certificate might read " heart failure " . When some dies from the > flu shot, which happens more often than you think, once again the > death certificate might read " heart failure " . The drug companies > manage to keep a clean slate. I find that the number one cause of > sickness, disease, premature death, birth defects and crime in our > society is medicinal drugs. Unexplainable mass murders are not caused > by those who failed to take their medicine, but by those who did take > it. Children who kill are not children who failed to take their > prozac. They are children who did take it. Nothing causes more > depression than anti-depressants. The Jefferey Dahmers of the world > are almost always those who took their medicine, or the products of > mothers who took theirs. We can stop the high rate of crime, the > diseases for which no cure can be found, even the budget deficit, by > stopping the use of drugs or that stuff called " medicine " . It is the > number one cause of our nations earth shattering problems and in > time, will prove to be the number one cause of the pollution of the > earth's water supply. > From: www.medicine-no.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 When one fully understands that drugs are poisons and poisons cannot heal, repair or cure the living body, man or animal there is never a valid reason to take a drug when one is sick. When one fully understands the true cause of disease(not germs or viruses) then one understands why drugs should never be taken. Have you ever thought that its called the germ theory and not the germ fact. When ANY person is sick in a hospital and are being given drugs and die that person died because of the treatment. Those numbers they pull out of the air mean nothing. Why because the people who walk out of the hospital did so not because of the drug curing powers (which it doesn't have) but because that person was strong enough to neutralize and eliminate the poison (drug) from the system. Had they never taken the drug there body would have recovered sooner. Russ you are confusing me. If I read correctly you are saying sometimes a allopathic drug is necessary, but your not sure and that drugs are the number one killer? I have always wondered why people would say I will never go to a doctor unless I am really sick. If you don't believe he can help you when your a little sick, how can his poison help a body that is already loaded with enough poison that he is classified as real sick? If germs cause disease and one needs drugs to kill the germs that cause disease and these germs are lurking everywhere, hiding , waiting for the right moment to attack and the drugs have the intelligence to target those bad guys than ===why shouldn;t those believers in the germ theory take a little of that good " medicine " everyday, just to keep the little devils in check. Now that would make sense to me. However when I confronted an Allopathic doctor with that question, he said he had an emergency and would get back to me. That was over four years ago. What I am really saying is when one has sufficient knowledge of this health and sickness BUSINESS one doesn't concern themselves to much with all those time consuming studies. jim Re: THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE couldn't agee with you more. If you want to stay healthy avoid your MD unless absolutely necessary. (I say that somewhat tongue in cheek) However there is good reason to use allopathic medicine judiciously. Life Extension, an online health digest, reported that medicine is the #1 killer in the US(to the tune of 780,000 lives in 2004). I doubt that the numbers have changed much....at least for the good. I will check to see if there are any updated statistics. Dynamic Chiropractic - June 3, 2004, Volume 22, Issue 12 Page printed from: http://www.chiroweb .com/archives/ 22/12/16. html Indictment of the American Medical System " Death by Medicine " 1 is an eye-opening paper published as a Web exclusive in the March 2004 issue of Life Extension, a monthly magazine dedicated to " upto-date coverage of the latest scientific and medical breakthroughs from around the world. " As the grim title suggests, the paper explores the hazards of conventional medicine in the United States, analyzing and combining the complete published literature to date regarding injuries and deaths attributable to medicine. In their introduction, the authors note: " Never before have the complete statistics on the multiple causes of iatrogenesis been combined in one paper. Medical science amasses tens of thousands of papers annually - each one a tiny fragment of the whole picture.... Each specialty, each division of medicine, keeps their own records and data on morbidity and mortality like pieces of a puzzle. But the numbers and statistics were always hiding in plain sight. We have now completed the painstaking work of reviewing thousands and thousands of studies. Finally putting the puzzle together, we came up with some disturbing answers. " The " disturbing answers " the five researchers uncover are an indictment of the entire American medical system: -- " The total number of deaths caused by conventional medicine is an astounding 783,936 per year. " -- " The number of people having in-hospital, adverse drug reactions (ADR)to prescribed medicine is 2.2 million. " -- " Besser, of the CDC, in 1995, said the number of unnecessary antibiotics prescribed annually for viral infections was 20 million. Dr.Besser, in 2003, now refers to tens of millions of unnecessary antibiotics. " -- " The number of unnecessary medical and surgical procedures performed annually is 7.5 million. " -- " The number of people exposed to unnecessary hospitalization annually is 8.9 million. " -- " It is evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the United States. " The authors are especially concerned that " (a)s few as 5% and only up to 20% of iatrogenic acts are ever reported. " ion per year. As if this information isn't startling enough, the paper goes on to review the drug industry world. The authors discuss the dangers of many types of drugs and how their overuse is affecting our health and our environment. Next, they discuss the dangers of surgical procedures, the lack of error reporting and unnecessary hospitalization. The paper concludes with a discussion of how women are mistreated by medicine, and the dangers awaiting the unsuspecting elderly: " A total of 20% of all deaths from all causes occur in nursing homes. " The complete text of " Death by Medicine " can be found online at www.lef.org/ magazine/ mag2004/mar2004_ awsi_death_ 01.html. More than 150 references and an extensive appendix support the discussions and conclusions presented in this paper. While many will find it quite disturbing, every health care provider and every patient should read this paper. Reference 1. Null, PhD, Carolyn Dean, MD ND, Feldman, MD, Debora Rasio, MD, Dorothy , PhD. " Death by Medicine. " Life Extension March 2004 (Web exclusive). > > Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and > vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be > abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except > according to the statistics created by those in the business of > promoting these products. When someone dies from this stuff > called " medicine " , doctors are well versed in how to cover up. The > death certificate might read " heart failure " . When some dies from the > flu shot, which happens more often than you think, once again the > death certificate might read " heart failure " . The drug companies > manage to keep a clean slate. I find that the number one cause of > sickness, disease, premature death, birth defects and crime in our > society is medicinal drugs. Unexplainable mass murders are not caused > by those who failed to take their medicine, but by those who did take > it. Children who kill are not children who failed to take their > prozac. They are children who did take it. Nothing causes more > depression than anti-depressants. The Jefferey Dahmers of the world > are almost always those who took their medicine, or the products of > mothers who took theirs. We can stop the high rate of crime, the > diseases for which no cure can be found, even the budget deficit, by > stopping the use of drugs or that stuff called " medicine " . It is the > number one cause of our nations earth shattering problems and in > time, will prove to be the number one cause of the pollution of the > earth's water supply. > From: www.medicine- no.com > Messages in this topic (3) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Calendar Change settings via the Web ( ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity * 32 New MembersVisit Your Group Health Heartburn or Worse What symptoms are most serious? Meditation and Lovingkindness A Group to share and learn. Share Photos Put your favorite photos and more online. .. __,_.._,___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 Found a bit more up to date stats the numbers are a bit lower than the previous article I posted, however note that this only reviews the US Medicare system. Not the overall healthcare system. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/08/AR2008040800957.\ html also an interesting article published in 2008, regrading iatrogenic (treatment induced) diseases. Well referenced. http://www.whale.to/a/last1.html Stay well Russ > > Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and > vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be > abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except > according to the statistics created by those in the business of > promoting these products. When someone dies from this stuff > called " medicine " , doctors are well versed in how to cover up. The > death certificate might read " heart failure " . When some dies from the > flu shot, which happens more often than you think, once again the > death certificate might read " heart failure " . The drug companies > manage to keep a clean slate. I find that the number one cause of > sickness, disease, premature death, birth defects and crime in our > society is medicinal drugs. Unexplainable mass murders are not caused > by those who failed to take their medicine, but by those who did take > it. Children who kill are not children who failed to take their > prozac. They are children who did take it. Nothing causes more > depression than anti-depressants. The Jefferey Dahmers of the world > are almost always those who took their medicine, or the products of > mothers who took theirs. We can stop the high rate of crime, the > diseases for which no cure can be found, even the budget deficit, by > stopping the use of drugs or that stuff called " medicine " . It is the > number one cause of our nations earth shattering problems and in > time, will prove to be the number one cause of the pollution of the > earth's water supply. > From: www.medicine-no.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2008 Report Share Posted September 1, 2008 Hi, Article raises good points, but when I saw the references of Null, PhD, Carolyn Dean, MD ND, Feldman, MD et al, I became skeptical as there has been much controversy over Null's credentials (meaning lack of), " scientific " studies etc. and legitimacy of his work...I don't have a good understanding of his qualifications or what he uses to base his arguments on... which I find just as suspect as conventional " medicine " ! Just curious, does anyone here in this thread find any legitimacy in any medicine/practice (penicillin, insulin, dialysis, surgery etc) and do you believe there is a legit place for allopathic docs? If so, where? When a family member of mine was " diagnosed " with the " final " stages of cancer, there were little resources available her to find alternative treatment other than the conventional route (surgery, chemo, on and on with the vicious cycle) and perception then was that " alternative methods " were not " as qualified " as the MD that flashed his credentials, published/peer-reviewed papers etc...I now know better and understand the holes in conventional medicine, but there is also great difficulty, I feel, for desperate families that are " racing against the clock " (real or out of fear), in qualifying alternative treatments or solutions that would be a better choice...finding holes in conventional medicine is by default, and I would like to better understand where and how we should qualify treatment, cure etc for any disease or ill health. Thanks, mabel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Mabel Balduf <m_balduf@...> wrote: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 16:34:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Mabel Balduf <m_balduf@...> Subject: Re: [sPAM][VaCcinations] Re: THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE Vaccinations Winnie, Almost didn't see this post - it's marked " spam " ...do you mean the statistics from both sides? I concur - the " studies " done or not done rather apparently do not mean anything to the doc that is writing the script! When I was pregnant/breastfeeding, my docs had no hesitancy on writing me scripts for meds and wanted me to get the flu shot when many of my general aches and pains were all part of the natural process (I never took them especially after reading inserts that never studied effects on pregnancy nor breastfeeding mothers, etc!)...However, I find that holistic/more natural health information lacks the same depth in studies or at least not published...how is a family to determine what's credible information and not just anecdotal like the vax industry? What is should be the measuring stick? thanks, mabel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 My comment about judicious use and only when absolutely necessary is referring not to allopathic drugs but more to allopathic procedures, to incidences of something more immediately life threatening such as a ruptured appendix or hemorhaging after an accident, at which times I do feel that allopathic medicine is necessary because I know of no state, in which, any other profession is licensed to perform surgical interventions. Allopathic medicine does have a place in short term crisis care. No, I do not believe in the use of drugs for every little ailment or as a long term fixes, I do (as a matter of personal opinion and I understand that you may disagree with me) feel that in a case of severe infection to the point of gangrene and systemic sepsis that antibiotic therapy can be beneficial to that individual's recovery, at least in the short term. Yes, natural therapies, nutritionals and homeopathy can be an important part of the long term recovery and true health. But would I recommend to someone that those should be their only route of treatment with an infectious agent going systemic? I don't think so. I also feel that anticoagulants are appropriate, in the short term, for someone suffering an embolism. Yes they would be better served after the crisis is over to manage their health more naturally, but in crisis pharmaceuticals can be lifesaving. Before I draw too much heat for my stance, let me state that as a licensed health provider in my state I am held to a different standard than members of the general public. If I were to simply tell all my patients that they should not be taking their prescribed meds because they don't need them, I am pretty sure that I would be sued for malpractice and probably sanctioned by my own licensing board. I do consider myself to have a pretty significant knowledge of this health and sickness business (having practiced for 18 years) and considering the media influence that BigPharma has, how are we going to get our point across to the public and the powers that be, without basing our arguments or in my case, my recommendations on some of those time consuming studies? Russ > > > > Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and > > vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be > > abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except > > according to the statistics created by those in the business of > > promoting these products. When someone dies from this stuff > > called " medicine " , doctors are well versed in how to cover up. The > > death certificate might read " heart failure " . When some dies from the > > flu shot, which happens more often than you think, once again the > > death certificate might read " heart failure " . The drug companies > > manage to keep a clean slate. I find that the number one cause of > > sickness, disease, premature death, birth defects and crime in our > > society is medicinal drugs. Unexplainable mass murders are not caused > > by those who failed to take their medicine, but by those who did take > > it. Children who kill are not children who failed to take their > > prozac. They are children who did take it. Nothing causes more > > depression than anti-depressants. The Jefferey Dahmers of the world > > are almost always those who took their medicine, or the products of > > mothers who took theirs. We can stop the high rate of crime, the > > diseases for which no cure can be found, even the budget deficit, by > > stopping the use of drugs or that stuff called " medicine " . It is the > > number one cause of our nations earth shattering problems and in > > time, will prove to be the number one cause of the pollution of the > > earth's water supply. > > From: www.medicine- no.com > > > > > Messages in this topic (3) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic > Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Calendar > > Change settings via the Web ( ID required) > Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional > Visit Your Group | Terms of Use | Unsubscribe > Recent Activity > * 32 > New MembersVisit Your Group > Health > Heartburn or Worse > What symptoms > are most serious? > Meditation and > Lovingkindness > A Group > to share and learn. > Share Photos > Put your favorite > photos and > more online. > . > __,_.._,___ > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 I have always stated that allopathic is good in trama and crises. I like to know where other people stand and for them to know where I stand. That way we understand each other and get along better. Normally people who have sepsis and ganggrene are people who are under treatment by the allopath.. I am sure we would agree on many issues, and you are correct there are a few that we would not see eye to eye. I have rejected the ideas of so-called cures by any kind of health care provider. I learned a long time ago that the way to prevent dis-ease is by food, exercise, positive thinking and fasting. I follow the method of Natural Hygiene. I have been a follower of folks Like Dr. Herbert Shelton, who fasted over 40,000 patients and restored their health. Most had been given a death sentence by the Allopaths. I try to live as best as I can by the standards of Bragg. I have learned much in the past 30 years from writers like Dr. Tilden M.D. , Prof. Arnold Ehret, Dr. Benedict Lust, M.D., N.D., Bernarr Macfadden, Dr. Henry Lindlahr, M.D. just to name a few. I also reject the germ theory. As far as the dead coming to life (virus) I believe that to be inbetween a con game and absurd. A person with sepsis(blood poisioning) are normally found in a hospital. They load the person up with drugs. The body trys to eliminate that poison. The cells are poisoned and die trying to eliminate the poison. The blood is finally filled with poison and dead cells. And the Allopaths blame it on the little old lady down the hall.I questoned a nurse and a doctor about that, why they did remember nurse down in Florida or somewhere who they heard had sepsis. In my education I have learned that there is only one cause of disease and one way to restore health. We don't use the word cure. Toxema is the cause and elimination of the poison will return the body to health. I have no arguement with those who through ignorance of the Natural laws of Health do not take care of themselves and than with the same ignorance run to an Allopath looking foolishly for a cure. For them it is a one way street. Suffering and death. Their Quality of life is always worse. The major point of disagreement I have is your statement that in a crises drugs can be lifesaving. Maybe I am missing something. How can a poisonous drug save a life? What power of healing does it have? Since it is my understanding that a drug cannot act and has no power of action and is classified as a poison by the drug companys themselves and is just an inert substance, I cannot be in agreement with that belief. I am always open to learn, so maybe you can tell me of what situation a drug can save a life. Just for the record my wife does not eat or live the way I do and 3 months ago, she developed a suspected clot in her leg. The leg was sore, painful and had a red line about 6 or 7 inches running down it. All my medical friends including my chiopractor friend said I better take her to the hospital. They all agreed she might have a clot and if the clot broke loose it could hit the heart and she would die. My wife went to bed and started a water fast. I told her the decision was hers to make. I then called Dr. Virginia Vetrano D.C. She was the assistant to Dr. Shelton that I sent my daughter to 30 years ago. I described the leg to her. She said what is she doing? I said fasting , this is her 2nd day. Dr. V. in her quiet, calm and laid back Texas way said, tell her to continue the fast, stay in bed, do as little moving as possible. The body will dissolve the clot. She broke the fast after nine days. She is now back at work. This information is given, not to bump heads with you or anyone else, but because these are just a few of the experiences I have had with the Hygienic system of healing. When I share my beliefs as does everyone else I hope someone will investigate for themselves. You are correct, you have to do what you believe to be right just as I do. Again I understand your position and if you feel studies are important, it is your right to express them. I just wanted clarifcation on your view of drugs. You have given it to me and now I have a better idea of your beliefs. If I have offended you it was not intentional as in the bottom line we are on the same page on many issues. Jim Re: THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE My comment about judicious use and only when absolutely necessary is referring not to allopathic drugs but more to allopathic procedures, to incidences of something more immediately life threatening such as a ruptured appendix or hemorhaging after an accident, at which times I do feel that allopathic medicine is necessary because I know of no state, in which, any other profession is licensed to perform surgical interventions. Allopathic medicine does have a place in short term crisis care. No, I do not believe in the use of drugs for every little ailment or as a long term fixes, I do (as a matter of personal opinion and I understand that you may disagree with me) feel that in a case of severe infection to the point of gangrene and systemic sepsis that antibiotic therapy can be beneficial to that individual's recovery, at least in the short term. Yes, natural therapies, nutritionals and homeopathy can be an important part of the long term recovery and true health. But would I recommend to someone that those should be their only route of treatment with an infectious agent going systemic? I don't think so. I also feel that anticoagulants are appropriate, in the short term, for someone suffering an embolism. Yes they would be better served after the crisis is over to manage their health more naturally, but in crisis pharmaceuticals can be lifesaving. Before I draw too much heat for my stance, let me state that as a licensed health provider in my state I am held to a different standard than members of the general public. If I were to simply tell all my patients that they should not be taking their prescribed meds because they don't need them, I am pretty sure that I would be sued for malpractice and probably sanctioned by my own licensing board. I do consider myself to have a pretty significant knowledge of this health and sickness business (having practiced for 18 years) and considering the media influence that BigPharma has, how are we going to get our point across to the public and the powers that be, without basing our arguments or in my case, my recommendations on some of those time consuming studies? Russ > > > > Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and > > vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be > > abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except > > according to the statistics created by those in the business of > > promoting these products. When someone dies from this stuff > > called " medicine " , doctors are well versed in how to cover up. The > > death certificate might read " heart failure " . When some dies from the > > flu shot, which happens more often than you think, once again the > > death certificate might read " heart failure " . The drug companies > > manage to keep a clean slate. I find that the number one cause of > > sickness, disease, premature death, birth defects and crime in our > > society is medicinal drugs. Unexplainable mass murders are not caused > > by those who failed to take their medicine, but by those who did take > > it. Children who kill are not children who failed to take their > > prozac. They are children who did take it. Nothing causes more > > depression than anti-depressants. The Jefferey Dahmers of the world > > are almost always those who took their medicine, or the products of > > mothers who took theirs. We can stop the high rate of crime, the > > diseases for which no cure can be found, even the budget deficit, by > > stopping the use of drugs or that stuff called " medicine " . It is the > > number one cause of our nations earth shattering problems and in > > time, will prove to be the number one cause of the pollution of the > > earth's water supply. > > From: www.medicine- no.com > > > > > Messages in this topic (3) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic > Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Calendar > > Change settings via the Web ( ID required) > Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional > Visit Your Group | Terms of Use | Unsubscribe > Recent Activity > * 32 > New MembersVisit Your Group > Health > Heartburn or Worse > What symptoms > are most serious? > Meditation and > Lovingkindness > A Group > to share and learn. > Share Photos > Put your favorite > photos and > more online. > . > __,_.._,___ > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 Fantastic Jim. Thanks so much. Fasting is just so beneficial! Glad your wife has recovered! Maracuja From: Jim O <jimokelly@...> Subject: Re: Re: THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE Vaccinations Date: Wednesday, September 3, 2008, 12:04 AM I have always stated that allopathic is good in trama and crises. I like to know where other people stand and for them to know where I stand. That way we understand each other and get along better. Normally people who have sepsis and ganggrene are people who are under treatment by the allopath.. I am sure we would agree on many issues, and you are correct there are a few that we would not see eye to eye. I have rejected the ideas of so-called cures by any kind of health care provider. I learned a long time ago that the way to prevent dis-ease is by food, exercise, positive thinking and fasting. I follow the method of Natural Hygiene. I have been a follower of folks Like Dr. Herbert Shelton, who fasted over 40,000 patients and restored their health. Most had been given a death sentence by the Allopaths. I try to live as best as I can by the standards of Bragg. I have learned much in the past 30 years from writers like Dr. Tilden M.D. , Prof. Arnold Ehret, Dr. Benedict Lust, M.D., N.D., Bernarr Macfadden, Dr. Henry Lindlahr, M.D. just to name a few. I also reject the germ theory. As far as the dead coming to life (virus) I believe that to be inbetween a con game and absurd. A person with sepsis(blood poisioning) are normally found in a hospital. They load the person up with drugs. The body trys to eliminate that poison. The cells are poisoned and die trying to eliminate the poison. The blood is finally filled with poison and dead cells. And the Allopaths blame it on the little old lady down the hall.I questoned a nurse and a doctor about that, why they did remember nurse down in Florida or somewhere who they heard had sepsis. In my education I have learned that there is only one cause of disease and one way to restore health. We don't use the word cure. Toxema is the cause and elimination of the poison will return the body to health. I have no arguement with those who through ignorance of the Natural laws of Health do not take care of themselves and than with the same ignorance run to an Allopath looking foolishly for a cure. For them it is a one way street. Suffering and death. Their Quality of life is always worse. The major point of disagreement I have is your statement that in a crises drugs can be lifesaving. Maybe I am missing something. How can a poisonous drug save a life? What power of healing does it have? Since it is my understanding that a drug cannot act and has no power of action and is classified as a poison by the drug companys themselves and is just an inert substance, I cannot be in agreement with that belief. I am always open to learn, so maybe you can tell me of what situation a drug can save a life. Just for the record my wife does not eat or live the way I do and 3 months ago, she developed a suspected clot in her leg. The leg was sore, painful and had a red line about 6 or 7 inches running down it. All my medical friends including my chiopractor friend said I better take her to the hospital. They all agreed she might have a clot and if the clot broke loose it could hit the heart and she would die. My wife went to bed and started a water fast. I told her the decision was hers to make. I then called Dr. Virginia Vetrano D.C. She was the assistant to Dr. Shelton that I sent my daughter to 30 years ago. I described the leg to her. She said what is she doing? I said fasting , this is her 2nd day. Dr. V. in her quiet, calm and laid back Texas way said, tell her to continue the fast, stay in bed, do as little moving as possible. The body will dissolve the clot. She broke the fast after nine days. She is now back at work. This information is given, not to bump heads with you or anyone else, but because these are just a few of the experiences I have had with the Hygienic system of healing. When I share my beliefs as does everyone else I hope someone will investigate for themselves. You are correct, you have to do what you believe to be right just as I do. Again I understand your position and if you feel studies are important, it is your right to express them. I just wanted clarifcation on your view of drugs. You have given it to me and now I have a better idea of your beliefs. If I have offended you it was not intentional as in the bottom line we are on the same page on many issues. Jim Re: THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE My comment about judicious use and only when absolutely necessary is referring not to allopathic drugs but more to allopathic procedures, to incidences of something more immediately life threatening such as a ruptured appendix or hemorhaging after an accident, at which times I do feel that allopathic medicine is necessary because I know of no state, in which, any other profession is licensed to perform surgical interventions. Allopathic medicine does have a place in short term crisis care. No, I do not believe in the use of drugs for every little ailment or as a long term fixes, I do (as a matter of personal opinion and I understand that you may disagree with me) feel that in a case of severe infection to the point of gangrene and systemic sepsis that antibiotic therapy can be beneficial to that individual's recovery, at least in the short term. Yes, natural therapies, nutritionals and homeopathy can be an important part of the long term recovery and true health. But would I recommend to someone that those should be their only route of treatment with an infectious agent going systemic? I don't think so. I also feel that anticoagulants are appropriate, in the short term, for someone suffering an embolism. Yes they would be better served after the crisis is over to manage their health more naturally, but in crisis pharmaceuticals can be lifesaving. Before I draw too much heat for my stance, let me state that as a licensed health provider in my state I am held to a different standard than members of the general public. If I were to simply tell all my patients that they should not be taking their prescribed meds because they don't need them, I am pretty sure that I would be sued for malpractice and probably sanctioned by my own licensing board. I do consider myself to have a pretty significant knowledge of this health and sickness business (having practiced for 18 years) and considering the media influence that BigPharma has, how are we going to get our point across to the public and the powers that be, without basing our arguments or in my case, my recommendations on some of those time consuming studies? Russ > > > > Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and > > vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be > > abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except > > according to the statistics created by those in the business of > > promoting these products. When someone dies from this stuff > > called " medicine " , doctors are well versed in how to cover up. The > > death certificate might read " heart failure " . When some dies from the > > flu shot, which happens more often than you think, once again the > > death certificate might read " heart failure " . The drug companies > > manage to keep a clean slate. I find that the number one cause of > > sickness, disease, premature death, birth defects and crime in our > > society is medicinal drugs. Unexplainable mass murders are not caused > > by those who failed to take their medicine, but by those who did take > > it. Children who kill are not children who failed to take their > > prozac. They are children who did take it. Nothing causes more > > depression than anti-depressants. The Jefferey Dahmers of the world > > are almost always those who took their medicine, or the products of > > mothers who took theirs. We can stop the high rate of crime, the > > diseases for which no cure can be found, even the budget deficit, by > > stopping the use of drugs or that stuff called " medicine " . It is the > > number one cause of our nations earth shattering problems and in > > time, will prove to be the number one cause of the pollution of the > > earth's water supply. > > From: www.medicine- no.com > > > > > Messages in this topic (3) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic > Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Calendar > > Change settings via the Web ( ID required) > Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional > Visit Your Group | Terms of Use | Unsubscribe > Recent Activity > * 32 > New MembersVisit Your Group > Health > Heartburn or Worse > What symptoms > are most serious? > Meditation and > Lovingkindness > A Group > to share and learn. > Share Photos > Put your favorite > photos and > more online. > . > __,_.._,___ > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 Glad to know there is another faster on the list We travel a lonely road. Thanks Jim Re: THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE My comment about judicious use and only when absolutely necessary is referring not to allopathic drugs but more to allopathic procedures, to incidences of something more immediately life threatening such as a ruptured appendix or hemorhaging after an accident, at which times I do feel that allopathic medicine is necessary because I know of no state, in which, any other profession is licensed to perform surgical interventions. Allopathic medicine does have a place in short term crisis care. No, I do not believe in the use of drugs for every little ailment or as a long term fixes, I do (as a matter of personal opinion and I understand that you may disagree with me) feel that in a case of severe infection to the point of gangrene and systemic sepsis that antibiotic therapy can be beneficial to that individual's recovery, at least in the short term. Yes, natural therapies, nutritionals and homeopathy can be an important part of the long term recovery and true health. But would I recommend to someone that those should be their only route of treatment with an infectious agent going systemic? I don't think so. I also feel that anticoagulants are appropriate, in the short term, for someone suffering an embolism. Yes they would be better served after the crisis is over to manage their health more naturally, but in crisis pharmaceuticals can be lifesaving. Before I draw too much heat for my stance, let me state that as a licensed health provider in my state I am held to a different standard than members of the general public. If I were to simply tell all my patients that they should not be taking their prescribed meds because they don't need them, I am pretty sure that I would be sued for malpractice and probably sanctioned by my own licensing board. I do consider myself to have a pretty significant knowledge of this health and sickness business (having practiced for 18 years) and considering the media influence that BigPharma has, how are we going to get our point across to the public and the powers that be, without basing our arguments or in my case, my recommendations on some of those time consuming studies? Russ > > > > Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and > > vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be > > abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except > > according to the statistics created by those in the business of > > promoting these products. When someone dies from this stuff > > called " medicine " , doctors are well versed in how to cover up. The > > death certificate might read " heart failure " . When some dies from the > > flu shot, which happens more often than you think, once again the > > death certificate might read " heart failure " . The drug companies > > manage to keep a clean slate. I find that the number one cause of > > sickness, disease, premature death, birth defects and crime in our > > society is medicinal drugs. Unexplainable mass murders are not caused > > by those who failed to take their medicine, but by those who did take > > it. Children who kill are not children who failed to take their > > prozac. They are children who did take it. Nothing causes more > > depression than anti-depressants.. The Jefferey Dahmers of the world > > are almost always those who took their medicine, or the products of > > mothers who took theirs. We can stop the high rate of crime, the > > diseases for which no cure can be found, even the budget deficit, by > > stopping the use of drugs or that stuff called " medicine " . It is the > > number one cause of our nations earth shattering problems and in > > time, will prove to be the number one cause of the pollution of the > > earth's water supply. > > From: www.medicine- no.com > > > > > Messages in this topic (3) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic > Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Calendar > > Change settings via the Web ( ID required) > Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional > Visit Your Group | Terms of Use | Unsubscribe > Recent Activity > * 32 > New MembersVisit Your Group > Health > Heartburn or Worse > What symptoms > are most serious? > Meditation and > Lovingkindness > A Group > to share and learn. > Share Photos > Put your favorite > photos and > more online. > . > __,_.._,___ > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 Jim, At the risk of taking this too far off topic.....I appreciate your response and would not bump heads with you at all regarding your management of your wifes apparent blood clot. It is after a clot has apparently embolised and could be compromising circulation within the heart or lungs that I feel anticoagulants would be prudent. Since you inquired as to my belief in drugs being beneficial I will explain myself abit more. I again see this as a crisis management, where the immediate risk of the unchecked process out weighs the risk of short term intervention. If an individual is at risk of organ failure or damage due to a hemorrhagic or necrotic process induced by the pathogen and their immune system is too overwhelmed, debilitated or compromised to overcome the pathogen, I believe that a brief regimen of antibiotics could then be of benefit. Since by nature, as you say, they are toxic, also to the pathogenic organism (provided the physician has done their homework and prescribes the correct antibiotic) they can hopefully interrupt the life cycle of the pathogen long enough to allow the patient's immune system to recuperate and catch up. By all means holistic steps should be taken along the way to strengthen the system, the drugs in and of themselves can not " heal " the body. I whole-heartedly agree that it is only the immune system which can regain and maintain an individual's health. So, hopefully this can help clarify some of my views. You say I sound somewhat waffling on my veiws? I suppose it could be interpreted as such. I have found very few absolutes in health care, the exception being that we all will die someday. I therefore probably go out of my way to avoid, and maybe take exception to (my apologies), " always " and " never " statements. Isn't that the critism of so many of the posts on this site...the unflinching opinion/attitude of the MD's and powers that be? So Jim, can we agree that allopathic medicine is best suited for crisis and trauma care. Health maintainance is best done through personal responsibility and care of one's body environment and some of us on the list can see exceptions to certain rules where others see black and white? Shake hands and part friends? > > > > > > Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and > > > vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be > > > abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except > > > according to the statistics created by those in the business of > > > promoting these products. When someone dies from this stuff > > > called " medicine " , doctors are well versed in how to cover up. The > > > death certificate might read " heart failure " . When some dies from the > > > flu shot, which happens more often than you think, once again the > > > death certificate might read " heart failure " . The drug companies > > > manage to keep a clean slate. I find that the number one cause of > > > sickness, disease, premature death, birth defects and crime in our > > > society is medicinal drugs. Unexplainable mass murders are not caused > > > by those who failed to take their medicine, but by those who did take > > > it. Children who kill are not children who failed to take their > > > prozac. They are children who did take it. Nothing causes more > > > depression than anti-depressants. The Jefferey Dahmers of the world > > > are almost always those who took their medicine, or the products of > > > mothers who took theirs. We can stop the high rate of crime, the > > > diseases for which no cure can be found, even the budget deficit, by > > > stopping the use of drugs or that stuff called " medicine " . It is the > > > number one cause of our nations earth shattering problems and in > > > time, will prove to be the number one cause of the pollution of the > > > earth's water supply. > > > From: www.medicine- no.com > > > > > > > > > Messages in this topic (3) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic > > Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Calendar > > > > Change settings via the Web ( ID required) > > Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch > format to Traditional > > Visit Your Group | Terms of Use | Unsubscribe > > Recent Activity > > * 32 > > New MembersVisit Your Group > > Health > > Heartburn or Worse > > What symptoms > > are most serious? > > Meditation and > > Lovingkindness > > A Group > > to share and learn. > > Share Photos > > Put your favorite > > photos and > > more online. > > . > > __,_.._,___ > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 Russ My definition of trama and crises is limited to broken bones and sewing one up to stop the bleeding. If one were in extreme pain they might take a pain killer for a short while. But it would be to stop the pain, not to kill germs which I reject as a cause of disease. I reject the germ theory because of all the books I have read. That is where we have a parting of the ways. However I am sure we can agree to disagree, agreeably. Just curious, by what method does a physician prescribe the correct anti(against) biotic(life) for those who may not know what the term antibotic means? I remember back in the late 70s. I was selling custom tailored suits.. A local physician ask me to wait in his waiting room. On the desk was a small wheel. You may remember the ones in school. You would turn it until you found the right answer, like 2+2=4. Only his said symptom. And the answer would provide what drug to give. This device of course was given to him by the drug salesman, the same person who educates the physician on all his life saving drugs and vaccines. When I sold insurance I spoke to hundreds of customers who were being given the right drug. The only problem was the drugs never solved the problem and the physician just kept prescribing another and another. I'm sorry somewhere along the line I thought you were a chiropractor. I must be thinking of someone else. I just think that vaccines and drugs are in the same class and believe that one is as poisonious as the other. It doesn't make sense to me that a person would understand that vaccines will cause disease, disability and death and think drugs won't do the same. If a person wants to remain healthy they need to practice the things that cause health and to avoid things that cause one to get sick. I may be wrong but I think Sheri might think that a good honest difference of opinion might be good for those on the list who are in shallow water and looking to learn from people like us who know what the battle is from a first hand experience and the backing of M.D.s and Health experts behind both of us. Our only real difference is the people we have learned from and the theories we have accepted or rejected. I hold no hard feelings and hope we cross paths from time to time in a similar friendly manner. Jim Re: THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE Jim, At the risk of taking this too far off topic.....I appreciate your response and would not bump heads with you at all regarding your management of your wifes apparent blood clot. It is after a clot has apparently embolised and could be compromising circulation within the heart or lungs that I feel anticoagulants would be prudent. Since you inquired as to my belief in drugs being beneficial I will explain myself abit more. I again see this as a crisis management, where the immediate risk of the unchecked process out weighs the risk of short term intervention. If an individual is at risk of organ failure or damage due to a hemorrhagic or necrotic process induced by the pathogen and their immune system is too overwhelmed, debilitated or compromised to overcome the pathogen, I believe that a brief regimen of antibiotics could then be of benefit. Since by nature, as you say, they are toxic, also to the pathogenic organism (provided the physician has done their homework and prescribes the correct antibiotic) they can hopefully interrupt the life cycle of the pathogen long enough to allow the patient's immune system to recuperate and catch up. By all means holistic steps should be taken along the way to strengthen the system, the drugs in and of themselves can not " heal " the body. I whole-heartedly agree that it is only the immune system which can regain and maintain an individual's health. So, hopefully this can help clarify some of my views. You say I sound somewhat waffling on my veiws? I suppose it could be interpreted as such. I have found very few absolutes in health care, the exception being that we all will die someday. I therefore probably go out of my way to avoid, and maybe take exception to (my apologies), " always " and " never " statements. Isn't that the critism of so many of the posts on this site...the unflinching opinion/attitude of the MD's and powers that be? So Jim, can we agree that allopathic medicine is best suited for crisis and trauma care. Health maintainance is best done through personal responsibility and care of one's body environment and some of us on the list can see exceptions to certain rules where others see black and white? Shake hands and part friends? > > > > > > Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and > > > vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be > > > abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except > > > according to the statistics created by those in the business of > > > promoting these products. When someone dies from this stuff > > > called " medicine " , doctors are well versed in how to cover up. The > > > death certificate might read " heart failure " . When some dies from the > > > flu shot, which happens more often than you think, once again the > > > death certificate might read " heart failure " . The drug companies > > > manage to keep a clean slate. I find that the number one cause of > > > sickness, disease, premature death, birth defects and crime in our > > > society is medicinal drugs. Unexplainable mass murders are not caused > > > by those who failed to take their medicine, but by those who did take > > > it. Children who kill are not children who failed to take their > > > prozac. They are children who did take it. Nothing causes more > > > depression than anti-depressants. The Jefferey Dahmers of the world > > > are almost always those who took their medicine, or the products of > > > mothers who took theirs. We can stop the high rate of crime, the > > > diseases for which no cure can be found, even the budget deficit, by > > > stopping the use of drugs or that stuff called " medicine " . It is the > > > number one cause of our nations earth shattering problems and in > > > time, will prove to be the number one cause of the pollution of the > > > earth's water supply. > > > From: www.medicine- no.com > > > > > > > > > Messages in this topic (3) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic > > Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Calendar > > > > Change settings via the Web ( ID required) > > Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch > format to Traditional > > Visit Your Group | Terms of Use | Unsubscribe > > Recent Activity > > * 32 > > New MembersVisit Your Group > > Health > > Heartburn or Worse > > What symptoms > > are most serious? > > Meditation and > > Lovingkindness > > A Group > > to share and learn. > > Share Photos > > Put your favorite > > photos and > > more online. > > . > > __,_.._,___ > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 > > > But it would be to stop the pain, not to kill germs which I reject as a cause of disease. I reject the germ theory because of all the books I have read. I'd be interested in reading these books. Can you tell me what they are? Bronwyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 Who is your Doctor and Why by Alonzo Jay Shadman He was a surgeon who believed in Homeopathy. Chapter 6. The Nature of Disease. " First of all, you must thoroughly discard the idead that all diseases are caused by germs. Remember that germs are a concomitant of disease. They are present in a sick person BECAUSE of the disease, not the cause of the disease. " Also BECHAMP or PASTEUR by E. Hume Also Pasteur plagiarist impostor-The germ theory exploded by R.B. Pearson Also books by Bragg and Dr. Herbert Shelton. There are many others but this should give you a start. Jim O' Founder of S.I.N.B.A.D. Shots in body's are dangerous and drugs(meds) too Re: THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE > > > But it would be to stop the pain, not to kill germs which I reject as a cause of disease. I reject the germ theory because of all the books I have read. I'd be interested in reading these books. Can you tell me what they are? Bronwyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 > > Who is your Doctor and Why by Alonzo Jay Shadman > He was a surgeon who believed in Homeopathy. > Chapter 6. The Nature of Disease. " First of all, you must thoroughly discard the idead that all diseases are caused by germs. Remember that germs are a concomitant of disease. They are present in a sick person BECAUSE of the disease, not the cause of the disease. " Also BECHAMP or PASTEUR by E. Hume Also Pasteur plagiarist impostor-The germ theory exploded by R.B. Pearson Also books by Bragg and Dr. Herbert Shelton. There are many others but this should give you a start. > > Jim O' > Founder of S.I.N.B.A.D. > Shots in body's are dangerous > and drugs(meds) too > > Thank you! Off to do some reading. Bronwyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 <If I have offended you it was not intentional as in the bottom line we are on the same page on many issues.> Jim... FYI... you and I are on the same page on ALL issues ALL the time.. You are invaluable on this list. Thank you for always sharing your knowledge/life's experience and encouraging me to continue on this difficult path. Ari Arianna Mojica- (UCC 1-207/1-103) ~~~ " All rights not demanded are presumed waived " . ~ Thurston Re: THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE My comment about judicious use and only when absolutely necessary is referring not to allopathic drugs but more to allopathic procedures, to incidences of something more immediately life threatening such as a ruptured appendix or hemorhaging after an accident, at which times I do feel that allopathic medicine is necessary because I know of no state, in which, any other profession is licensed to perform surgical interventions. Allopathic medicine does have a place in short term crisis care. No, I do not believe in the use of drugs for every little ailment or as a long term fixes, I do (as a matter of personal opinion and I understand that you may disagree with me) feel that in a case of severe infection to the point of gangrene and systemic sepsis that antibiotic therapy can be beneficial to that individual's recovery, at least in the short term. Yes, natural therapies, nutritionals and homeopathy can be an important part of the long term recovery and true health. But would I recommend to someone that those should be their only route of treatment with an infectious agent going systemic? I don't think so. I also feel that anticoagulants are appropriate, in the short term, for someone suffering an embolism. Yes they would be better served after the crisis is over to manage their health more naturally, but in crisis pharmaceuticals can be lifesaving. Before I draw too much heat for my stance, let me state that as a licensed health provider in my state I am held to a different standard than members of the general public. If I were to simply tell all my patients that they should not be taking their prescribed meds because they don't need them, I am pretty sure that I would be sued for malpractice and probably sanctioned by my own licensing board. I do consider myself to have a pretty significant knowledge of this health and sickness business (having practiced for 18 years) and considering the media influence that BigPharma has, how are we going to get our point across to the public and the powers that be, without basing our arguments or in my case, my recommendations on some of those time consuming studies? Russ > > > > Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and > > vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be > > abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except > > according to the statistics created by those in the business of > > promoting these products. When someone dies from this stuff > > called " medicine " , doctors are well versed in how to cover up. The > > death certificate might read " heart failure " . When some dies from the > > flu shot, which happens more often than you think, once again the > > death certificate might read " heart failure " . The drug companies > > manage to keep a clean slate. I find that the number one cause of > > sickness, disease, premature death, birth defects and crime in our > > society is medicinal drugs. Unexplainable mass murders are not caused > > by those who failed to take their medicine, but by those who did take > > it. Children who kill are not children who failed to take their > > prozac. They are children who did take it. Nothing causes more > > depression than anti-depressants. The Jefferey Dahmers of the world > > are almost always those who took their medicine, or the products of > > mothers who took theirs. We can stop the high rate of crime, the > > diseases for which no cure can be found, even the budget deficit, by > > stopping the use of drugs or that stuff called " medicine " . It is the > > number one cause of our nations earth shattering problems and in > > time, will prove to be the number one cause of the pollution of the > > earth's water supply. > > From: www.medicine- no.com > > > > > Messages in this topic (3) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic > Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Calendar > > Change settings via the Web ( ID required) > Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional > Visit Your Group | Terms of Use | Unsubscribe > Recent Activity > * 32 > New MembersVisit Your Group > Health > Heartburn or Worse > What symptoms > are most serious? > Meditation and > Lovingkindness > A Group > to share and learn. > Share Photos > Put your favorite > photos and > more online. > . > __,_.._,___ > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 > > Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and > vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be > abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except > according to the statistics created by those in the business of > promoting these products. I've been studying this idea for a while now and i am still not confortable to go as far as saying that all medicine is evil. I would like more proof and more time to study this subject thoroughly. I would like to believe that we can live without any drugs/medicine but can it really work out that way in real life? So many people take some kind of prescription medicine and they say they feel better because of it, that it vital to their survival. I've read a few cases where some religious fanatics kept all meds away from their children who had diabetis and the children died. Just looking around in my life, many of my friends have taken antibiotics many times and say they would over and over if they had to. My friend is on antibiotics because of Lyme disease and she is a healthy 31 female who had arthritis because the diesease was not diagnosed until a year later when it was in a last stage(artritic knee), she went on antibiotics for a month and felt great afterwards. My neighbore had horribile stomach ache & was diagnosed with ulcer due to H.Pylori, went on antibiotics many years ago, felt brand new and never had that problem again. How can all these cures be explained? I see first hand that medicines do help, unless i am missing something? Katarina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 >I think what you are witnessing is a masking of symptoms, but the illness is still there. In fact, people with chronic illnesses take medication usually for life since the medication never really cures them. Also, I think a lot of it is psychological too and people instantly feel better when they believe a medication is making them healthier, probably would be the same with a placebo. With antibiotics, they may kill bad bacteria, but also the good bacteria which leaves one with a whole bunch of other troubles. Plus, I've been sick at times and doctor tells me to take the antibiotics cause there is no way I could get better on my own, but then I do get better without taking them. People never give their bodies the chance to fight off whatever it is making them sick, they turn right away to medications, so how can they possibly know how capable the immune system is on it's own. I used to always think if you get an infection that you have to take antibiotics or the infection will never go away and it will only progress and you will eventually die. I know now this is absolutely not true, but I think many people still think it is. --------------------------------------------- >> So many people take > some kind of prescription medicine and they say they feel better > because of it, that it vital to their survival. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Medicine is not evil, it is poison. People take drugs because they don't know any better. They have not learned the cause of disease or the way to get better when they are sick. The body is self healing. When a person is sick and they take a drug, they get better in spite of the drug not because of it. They feel better because drugs paralize the nerves and the pain stops even though the problem (disease) still exists. Plus many drugs are no different than the drugs on the street. They make you feel good. Lyme disease is just another Allopathic name for toxemia. Anyone who has arthritis is a long way from being healthy. Unless you get arthritis from vaccines or drugs it generally takes a long time to develope. Lets try to explain it this way.. You, winnie, Ari, and I all get a cold at the same time with the same severity. You take your doctors drugs. Winnie doesn't like drugs so she takes vitamins. Ari doesn't dig either of those and chooses Acupuncture. I don't take anything. We all get well. You say you got well because of the drugs. Winnie credits the vitamins and Ari is convinced it was the Acupuncture. Question. What got me well? The next time you cut yourself (just a little one I hope) watch what happens. That wonderful body of yours goes right to work, without asking a doctor. Watch the way it heals all by itself. Well the same healing goes on in the inside also. it works whether we want it to or not. Most people have been brainwashed by the drug companys that the drug heals. That is a scientific impossibility. A drug has no power of action or power to heal. Ask your friends why they take drugs when their sick. Their answers should prove they simply believe all the deception and lies the drug companys put on T.V. Think of this if a person is sick and takes a drug and gets well and you say the drug got that person well and that is proof, would you also say that because I have been sick and injured many times in my life and I never took any drugs that could also be proof that drugs don't cure. So as far as proof goes we at least know that a person can get well without drugs. But how many people a year get sick and or die while they are taking the drugs? Just for the record, the word medicine means something that can help the healing process. This would be fruits and vegetables, fresh air if you can find any, subshine, exercise and positive mental thinking. The word drug means something used to treat. A big difference Ever notice the sign on drugs stores NEVER says medicine store. A suggested great book was written by Harvey Diamond called fit for life. And last but not least how did mankind survive before Allopaths started giving Arsnic, mercury , opium, and whiskey to cure people of their bad habits? Jim Re: THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE > > Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and > vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be > abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except > according to the statistics created by those in the business of > promoting these products. I've been studying this idea for a while now and i am still not confortable to go as far as saying that all medicine is evil. I would like more proof and more time to study this subject thoroughly. I would like to believe that we can live without any drugs/medicine but can it really work out that way in real life? So many people take some kind of prescription medicine and they say they feel better because of it, that it vital to their survival. I've read a few cases where some religious fanatics kept all meds away from their children who had diabetis and the children died. Just looking around in my life, many of my friends have taken antibiotics many times and say they would over and over if they had to. My friend is on antibiotics because of Lyme disease and she is a healthy 31 female who had arthritis because the diesease was not diagnosed until a year later when it was in a last stage(artritic knee), she went on antibiotics for a month and felt great afterwards. My neighbore had horribile stomach ache & was diagnosed with ulcer due to H.Pylori, went on antibiotics many years ago, felt brand new and never had that problem again. How can all these cures be explained? I see first hand that medicines do help, unless i am missing something? Katarina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Hi Ari It is 1.12 am. I have just gotten home from work and I am very tired. Reading your comment made my day. Thank you. You and the others on this list help to keep me going also. Jim Re: THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE My comment about judicious use and only when absolutely necessary is referring not to allopathic drugs but more to allopathic procedures, to incidences of something more immediately life threatening such as a ruptured appendix or hemorhaging after an accident, at which times I do feel that allopathic medicine is necessary because I know of no state, in which, any other profession is licensed to perform surgical interventions. Allopathic medicine does have a place in short term crisis care. No, I do not believe in the use of drugs for every little ailment or as a long term fixes, I do (as a matter of personal opinion and I understand that you may disagree with me) feel that in a case of severe infection to the point of gangrene and systemic sepsis that antibiotic therapy can be beneficial to that individual's recovery, at least in the short term. Yes, natural therapies, nutritionals and homeopathy can be an important part of the long term recovery and true health. But would I recommend to someone that those should be their only route of treatment with an infectious agent going systemic? I don't think so. I also feel that anticoagulants are appropriate, in the short term, for someone suffering an embolism. Yes they would be better served after the crisis is over to manage their health more naturally, but in crisis pharmaceuticals can be lifesaving. Before I draw too much heat for my stance, let me state that as a licensed health provider in my state I am held to a different standard than members of the general public. If I were to simply tell all my patients that they should not be taking their prescribed meds because they don't need them, I am pretty sure that I would be sued for malpractice and probably sanctioned by my own licensing board. I do consider myself to have a pretty significant knowledge of this health and sickness business (having practiced for 18 years) and considering the media influence that BigPharma has, how are we going to get our point across to the public and the powers that be, without basing our arguments or in my case, my recommendations on some of those time consuming studies? Russ > > > > Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and > > vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be > > abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except > > according to the statistics created by those in the business of > > promoting these products. When someone dies from this stuff > > called " medicine " , doctors are well versed in how to cover up. The > > death certificate might read " heart failure " . When some dies from the > > flu shot, which happens more often than you think, once again the > > death certificate might read " heart failure " . The drug companies > > manage to keep a clean slate. I find that the number one cause of > > sickness, disease, premature death, birth defects and crime in our > > society is medicinal drugs. Unexplainable mass murders are not caused > > by those who failed to take their medicine, but by those who did take > > it. Children who kill are not children who failed to take their > > prozac. They are children who did take it. Nothing causes more > > depression than anti-depressants. The Jefferey Dahmers of the world > > are almost always those who took their medicine, or the products of > > mothers who took theirs. We can stop the high rate of crime, the > > diseases for which no cure can be found, even the budget deficit, by > > stopping the use of drugs or that stuff called " medicine " . It is the > > number one cause of our nations earth shattering problems and in > > time, will prove to be the number one cause of the pollution of the > > earth's water supply. > > From: www.medicine- no.com > > > > > Messages in this topic (3) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic > Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Calendar > > Change settings via the Web ( ID required) > Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional > Visit Your Group | Terms of Use | Unsubscribe > Recent Activity > * 32 > New MembersVisit Your Group > Health > Heartburn or Worse > What symptoms > are most serious? > Meditation and > Lovingkindness > A Group > to share and learn. > Share Photos > Put your favorite > photos and > more online. > . > __,_.._,___ > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 At 07:15 AM 9/5/2008, you wrote: >Hi Ari >It is 1.12 am. I have just gotten home from work and I am very tired. >Reading your comment made my day. Thank you. You and the others on this list >help to keep me going also. > >Jim Yes, we all need each other for our sanity! (as well as our health) Sheri PS - reminder to trim the posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2008 Report Share Posted September 6, 2008 Thank you all for this honest dialogue - this is enriching and definitely gave me things I need to think about...I wish I can have these same discussions with our physicians! I think this is healthy that we challenge perspectives (something I have not always done or was not 'allowed' to do with my docs) and like others, I am seeking the raw truth and be able to say to our adversaries/big pharna/vaxers, " no " or " I need more info " or " that answer is not good enough " etc. You all help me do this and do it quite well! mabel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2008 Report Share Posted September 6, 2008 VERY GOOD Re: THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE Thank you all for this honest dialogue - this is enriching and definitely gave me things I need to think about...I wish I can have these same discussions with our physicians! I think this is healthy that we challenge perspectives (something I have not always done or was not 'allowed' to do with my docs) and like others, I am seeking the raw truth and be able to say to our adversaries/big pharna/vaxers, " no " or " I need more info " or " that answer is not good enough " etc. You all help me do this and do it quite well! mabel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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