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Right on. Its called iatrogenics. Diseases and Deaths caused by doctors and

hospitals.

And we are not just talking about mistakes. You can't repair, heal or cure the

human body

with poisons. When people understand that germs/viruses do not cause disease and

stop taking drugs

everyone will be healthier. If you are sick and take no drugs your quality of

life will be better.

THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE

Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and

vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be

abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except

according to the statistics created by those in the business of

promoting these products. When someone dies from this stuff

called " medicine " , doctors are well versed in how to cover up. The

death certificate might read " heart failure " . When some dies from the

flu shot, which happens more often than you think, once again the

death certificate might read " heart failure " . The drug companies

manage to keep a clean slate. I find that the number one cause of

sickness, disease, premature death, birth defects and crime in our

society is medicinal drugs. Unexplainable mass murders are not caused

by those who failed to take their medicine, but by those who did take

it. Children who kill are not children who failed to take their

prozac. They are children who did take it. Nothing causes more

depression than anti-depressants. The Jefferey Dahmers of the world

are almost always those who took their medicine, or the products of

mothers who took theirs. We can stop the high rate of crime, the

diseases for which no cure can be found, even the budget deficit, by

stopping the use of drugs or that stuff called " medicine " . It is the

number one cause of our nations earth shattering problems and in

time, will prove to be the number one cause of the pollution of the

earth's water supply.

From: www.medicine- no.com

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couldn't agee with you more. If you want to stay healthy avoid your

MD unless absolutely necessary. (I say that somewhat tongue in cheek)

However there is good reason to use allopathic medicine judiciously.

Life Extension, an online health digest, reported that medicine is the

#1 killer in the US(to the tune of 780,000 lives in 2004). I doubt

that the numbers have changed much....at least for the good.

I will check to see if there are any updated statistics.

Dynamic Chiropractic - June 3, 2004, Volume 22, Issue 12

Page printed from: http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/22/12/16.html

Indictment of the American Medical System

" Death by Medicine " 1 is an eye-opening paper published as a Web

exclusive in the March 2004 issue of Life Extension, a monthly

magazine dedicated to " upto-date coverage of the latest scientific and

medical breakthroughs from around the world. " As the grim title

suggests, the paper explores the hazards of conventional medicine in

the United States, analyzing and combining the complete published

literature to date regarding injuries and deaths attributable

to medicine.

In their introduction, the authors note: " Never before have the

complete statistics on the multiple causes of iatrogenesis been

combined in one paper. Medical science amasses tens of thousands of

papers annually - each one a tiny fragment of the whole picture....

Each specialty, each division of medicine, keeps their own records and

data on morbidity and mortality like pieces of a puzzle. But the

numbers and statistics were always hiding in plain sight. We

have now completed the painstaking work of reviewing thousands and

thousands of studies. Finally putting the puzzle together, we came up

with some disturbing answers. "

The " disturbing answers " the five researchers uncover are an

indictment of the

entire American medical system:

-- " The total number of deaths caused by conventional medicine is an

astounding 783,936 per year. "

-- " The number of people having in-hospital, adverse drug reactions

(ADR)to prescribed medicine is 2.2 million. "

-- " Besser, of the CDC, in 1995, said the number of unnecessary

antibiotics prescribed annually for viral infections was 20 million.

Dr.Besser, in 2003, now refers to tens of millions of unnecessary

antibiotics. "

-- " The number of unnecessary medical and surgical procedures performed

annually is 7.5 million. "

-- " The number of people exposed to unnecessary hospitalization

annually is 8.9 million. "

-- " It is evident that the American medical system is the leading cause

of death and injury in the United States. "

The authors are especially concerned that " (a)s few as 5% and only up

to 20% of iatrogenic acts are ever reported. " ion per year.

As if this information isn't startling enough, the paper goes on to

review the drug industry world. The authors discuss the dangers of

many types of drugs and how their overuse is affecting our health and

our environment. Next, they discuss the dangers of surgical

procedures, the lack of error reporting and unnecessary

hospitalization. The paper concludes with a discussion of how

women are mistreated by medicine, and the dangers awaiting the

unsuspecting elderly: " A total of 20% of all deaths from all causes

occur in nursing homes. "

The complete text of " Death by Medicine " can be found online at

www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/mar2004_awsi_death_01.html. More than

150 references and an extensive appendix support the discussions and

conclusions presented in this paper. While many will find it quite

disturbing, every health care provider and every patient should read

this paper.

Reference

1. Null, PhD, Carolyn Dean, MD ND, Feldman, MD, Debora

Rasio, MD, Dorothy , PhD. " Death by Medicine. " Life Extension

March 2004 (Web exclusive).

>

> Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and

> vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be

> abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except

> according to the statistics created by those in the business of

> promoting these products. When someone dies from this stuff

> called " medicine " , doctors are well versed in how to cover up. The

> death certificate might read " heart failure " . When some dies from the

> flu shot, which happens more often than you think, once again the

> death certificate might read " heart failure " . The drug companies

> manage to keep a clean slate. I find that the number one cause of

> sickness, disease, premature death, birth defects and crime in our

> society is medicinal drugs. Unexplainable mass murders are not caused

> by those who failed to take their medicine, but by those who did take

> it. Children who kill are not children who failed to take their

> prozac. They are children who did take it. Nothing causes more

> depression than anti-depressants. The Jefferey Dahmers of the world

> are almost always those who took their medicine, or the products of

> mothers who took theirs. We can stop the high rate of crime, the

> diseases for which no cure can be found, even the budget deficit, by

> stopping the use of drugs or that stuff called " medicine " . It is the

> number one cause of our nations earth shattering problems and in

> time, will prove to be the number one cause of the pollution of the

> earth's water supply.

> From: www.medicine-no.com

>

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When one fully understands that drugs are poisons and poisons cannot heal,

repair or cure the living body, man or animal there is never a valid reason to

take a drug when one is sick. When one fully understands the true cause of

disease(not germs or viruses) then one understands why drugs should never be

taken. Have you ever thought that its called the germ theory and not the germ

fact. When ANY person is sick in a hospital and are being given drugs and die

that person died because of the treatment. Those numbers they pull out of the

air mean nothing. Why because the people who walk out of the hospital did so not

because of the drug curing powers (which it doesn't have) but because that

person was strong enough to neutralize and eliminate the poison (drug)  from the

system. Had they never taken the drug there body would have recovered sooner.

Russ you are confusing me. If I read correctly you are saying sometimes a

allopathic drug is necessary, but your

not sure and that drugs are the number one killer? I have always wondered why

people would say I will never go to a doctor unless I am really sick. If you

don't believe he can help you when your a little sick, how can his poison help a

body that is already loaded with enough poison that he is classified as real

sick? If germs cause disease and one needs drugs to kill the germs that cause

disease and these germs are lurking everywhere, hiding , waiting for the right

moment to attack and the drugs have the intelligence to target those bad guys

than ===why shouldn;t those believers in the germ theory take a little of that

good " medicine " everyday, just to keep the little devils in check. Now that

would make sense to me. However when I confronted an Allopathic doctor with that

question, he said he had an emergency and would get back to me. That was over

four years ago. What I am really saying is when one has sufficient knowledge of

this health and sickness

BUSINESS one doesn't concern themselves to much with all those time consuming

studies.

jim

Re: THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE

couldn't agee with you more. If you want to stay healthy avoid your

MD unless absolutely necessary. (I say that somewhat tongue in cheek)

However there is good reason to use allopathic medicine judiciously.

Life Extension, an online health digest, reported that medicine is the

#1 killer in the US(to the tune of 780,000 lives in 2004). I doubt

that the numbers have changed much....at least for the good.

I will check to see if there are any updated statistics.

Dynamic Chiropractic - June 3, 2004, Volume 22, Issue 12

Page printed from: http://www.chiroweb .com/archives/ 22/12/16. html

Indictment of the American Medical System

" Death by Medicine " 1 is an eye-opening paper published as a Web

exclusive in the March 2004 issue of Life Extension, a monthly

magazine dedicated to " upto-date coverage of the latest scientific and

medical breakthroughs from around the world. " As the grim title

suggests, the paper explores the hazards of conventional medicine in

the United States, analyzing and combining the complete published

literature to date regarding injuries and deaths attributable

to medicine.

In their introduction, the authors note: " Never before have the

complete statistics on the multiple causes of iatrogenesis been

combined in one paper. Medical science amasses tens of thousands of

papers annually - each one a tiny fragment of the whole picture....

Each specialty, each division of medicine, keeps their own records and

data on morbidity and mortality like pieces of a puzzle. But the

numbers and statistics were always hiding in plain sight. We

have now completed the painstaking work of reviewing thousands and

thousands of studies. Finally putting the puzzle together, we came up

with some disturbing answers. "

The " disturbing answers " the five researchers uncover are an

indictment of the

entire American medical system:

-- " The total number of deaths caused by conventional medicine is an

astounding 783,936 per year. "

-- " The number of people having in-hospital, adverse drug reactions

(ADR)to prescribed medicine is 2.2 million. "

-- " Besser, of the CDC, in 1995, said the number of unnecessary

antibiotics prescribed annually for viral infections was 20 million.

Dr.Besser, in 2003, now refers to tens of millions of unnecessary

antibiotics. "

-- " The number of unnecessary medical and surgical procedures performed

annually is 7.5 million. "

-- " The number of people exposed to unnecessary hospitalization

annually is 8.9 million. "

-- " It is evident that the American medical system is the leading cause

of death and injury in the United States. "

The authors are especially concerned that " (a)s few as 5% and only up

to 20% of iatrogenic acts are ever reported. " ion per year.

As if this information isn't startling enough, the paper goes on to

review the drug industry world. The authors discuss the dangers of

many types of drugs and how their overuse is affecting our health and

our environment. Next, they discuss the dangers of surgical

procedures, the lack of error reporting and unnecessary

hospitalization. The paper concludes with a discussion of how

women are mistreated by medicine, and the dangers awaiting the

unsuspecting elderly: " A total of 20% of all deaths from all causes

occur in nursing homes. "

The complete text of " Death by Medicine " can be found online at

www.lef.org/ magazine/ mag2004/mar2004_ awsi_death_ 01.html. More than

150 references and an extensive appendix support the discussions and

conclusions presented in this paper. While many will find it quite

disturbing, every health care provider and every patient should read

this paper.

Reference

1. Null, PhD, Carolyn Dean, MD ND, Feldman, MD, Debora

Rasio, MD, Dorothy , PhD. " Death by Medicine. " Life Extension

March 2004 (Web exclusive).

>

> Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and

> vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be

> abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except

> according to the statistics created by those in the business of

> promoting these products. When someone dies from this stuff

> called " medicine " , doctors are well versed in how to cover up. The

> death certificate might read " heart failure " . When some dies from the

> flu shot, which happens more often than you think, once again the

> death certificate might read " heart failure " . The drug companies

> manage to keep a clean slate. I find that the number one cause of

> sickness, disease, premature death, birth defects and crime in our

> society is medicinal drugs. Unexplainable mass murders are not caused

> by those who failed to take their medicine, but by those who did take

> it. Children who kill are not children who failed to take their

> prozac. They are children who did take it. Nothing causes more

> depression than anti-depressants. The Jefferey Dahmers of the world

> are almost always those who took their medicine, or the products of

> mothers who took theirs. We can stop the high rate of crime, the

> diseases for which no cure can be found, even the budget deficit, by

> stopping the use of drugs or that stuff called " medicine " . It is the

> number one cause of our nations earth shattering problems and in

> time, will prove to be the number one cause of the pollution of the

> earth's water supply.

> From: www.medicine- no.com

>

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Found a bit more up to date stats

the numbers are a bit lower than the previous article I posted,

however note that this only reviews the US Medicare system. Not the

overall healthcare system.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/08/AR2008040800957.\

html

also an interesting article published in 2008, regrading iatrogenic

(treatment induced) diseases. Well referenced.

http://www.whale.to/a/last1.html

Stay well

Russ

>

> Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and

> vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be

> abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except

> according to the statistics created by those in the business of

> promoting these products. When someone dies from this stuff

> called " medicine " , doctors are well versed in how to cover up. The

> death certificate might read " heart failure " . When some dies from the

> flu shot, which happens more often than you think, once again the

> death certificate might read " heart failure " . The drug companies

> manage to keep a clean slate. I find that the number one cause of

> sickness, disease, premature death, birth defects and crime in our

> society is medicinal drugs. Unexplainable mass murders are not caused

> by those who failed to take their medicine, but by those who did take

> it. Children who kill are not children who failed to take their

> prozac. They are children who did take it. Nothing causes more

> depression than anti-depressants. The Jefferey Dahmers of the world

> are almost always those who took their medicine, or the products of

> mothers who took theirs. We can stop the high rate of crime, the

> diseases for which no cure can be found, even the budget deficit, by

> stopping the use of drugs or that stuff called " medicine " . It is the

> number one cause of our nations earth shattering problems and in

> time, will prove to be the number one cause of the pollution of the

> earth's water supply.

> From: www.medicine-no.com

>

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Hi,

Article raises good points, but when I saw the references of Null, PhD,

Carolyn Dean, MD ND, Feldman, MD et al, I became skeptical as there has

been much controversy over Null's credentials (meaning lack of), " scientific "

studies etc. and legitimacy of his work...I don't have a good understanding of

his qualifications or what he uses to base his arguments on... which I find just

as suspect as conventional " medicine " !

Just curious, does anyone here in this thread find any legitimacy in any

medicine/practice (penicillin, insulin, dialysis, surgery etc) and do you

believe there is a legit place for allopathic docs? If so, where?

When a family member of mine was " diagnosed " with the " final " stages of

cancer, there were little resources available her to find alternative treatment

other than the conventional route (surgery, chemo, on and on with the vicious

cycle) and perception then was that " alternative methods " were not " as

qualified " as the MD that flashed his credentials, published/peer-reviewed

papers etc...I now know better and understand the holes in conventional

medicine, but there is also great difficulty, I feel, for desperate families

that are " racing against the clock " (real or out of fear), in qualifying

alternative treatments or solutions that would be a better choice...finding

holes in conventional medicine is by default, and I would like to better

understand where and how we should qualify treatment, cure etc for any disease

or ill health.

Thanks,

mabel

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Mabel Balduf <m_balduf@...> wrote: Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 16:34:40

-0700 (PDT)

From: Mabel Balduf <m_balduf@...>

Subject: Re: [sPAM][VaCcinations] Re: THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE

Vaccinations

Winnie,

Almost didn't see this post - it's marked " spam " ...do you mean the statistics

from both sides? I concur - the " studies " done or not done rather apparently do

not mean anything to the doc that is writing the script! When I was

pregnant/breastfeeding, my docs had no hesitancy on writing me scripts for meds

and wanted me to get the flu shot when many of my general aches and pains were

all part of the natural process (I never took them especially after reading

inserts that never studied effects on pregnancy nor breastfeeding mothers,

etc!)...However, I find that holistic/more natural health information lacks the

same depth in studies or at least not published...how is a family to determine

what's credible information and not just anecdotal like the vax industry? What

is should be the measuring stick?

thanks,

mabel

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My comment about judicious use and only when absolutely necessary is

referring not to allopathic drugs but more to allopathic procedures,

to incidences of something more immediately life threatening such as a

ruptured appendix or hemorhaging after an accident, at which times I

do feel that allopathic medicine is necessary because I know of no

state, in which, any other profession is licensed to perform surgical

interventions. Allopathic medicine does have a place in short term

crisis care.

No, I do not believe in the use of drugs for every little ailment or

as a long term fixes, I do (as a matter of personal opinion and I

understand that you may disagree with me) feel that in a case of

severe infection to the point of gangrene and systemic sepsis that

antibiotic therapy can be beneficial to that individual's recovery, at

least in the short term. Yes, natural therapies, nutritionals and

homeopathy can be an important part of the long term recovery and true

health. But would I recommend to someone that those should be their

only route of treatment with an infectious agent going systemic? I

don't think so. I also feel that anticoagulants are appropriate, in

the short term, for someone suffering an embolism. Yes they would be

better served after the crisis is over to manage their health more

naturally, but in crisis pharmaceuticals can be lifesaving.

Before I draw too much heat for my stance, let me state that as a

licensed health provider in my state I am held to a different standard

than members of the general public. If I were to simply tell all my

patients that they should not be taking their prescribed meds because

they don't need them, I am pretty sure that I would be sued for

malpractice and probably sanctioned by my own licensing board.

I do consider myself to have a pretty significant knowledge of this

health and sickness business (having practiced for 18 years) and

considering the media influence that BigPharma has, how are we going

to get our point across to the public and the powers that be, without

basing our arguments or in my case, my recommendations on some of

those time consuming studies?

Russ

> >

> > Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and

> > vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be

> > abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except

> > according to the statistics created by those in the business of

> > promoting these products. When someone dies from this stuff

> > called " medicine " , doctors are well versed in how to cover up. The

> > death certificate might read " heart failure " . When some dies from the

> > flu shot, which happens more often than you think, once again the

> > death certificate might read " heart failure " . The drug companies

> > manage to keep a clean slate. I find that the number one cause of

> > sickness, disease, premature death, birth defects and crime in our

> > society is medicinal drugs. Unexplainable mass murders are not caused

> > by those who failed to take their medicine, but by those who did take

> > it. Children who kill are not children who failed to take their

> > prozac. They are children who did take it. Nothing causes more

> > depression than anti-depressants. The Jefferey Dahmers of the world

> > are almost always those who took their medicine, or the products of

> > mothers who took theirs. We can stop the high rate of crime, the

> > diseases for which no cure can be found, even the budget deficit, by

> > stopping the use of drugs or that stuff called " medicine " . It is the

> > number one cause of our nations earth shattering problems and in

> > time, will prove to be the number one cause of the pollution of the

> > earth's water supply.

> > From: www.medicine- no.com

> >

>

>

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I have always stated that allopathic is good in trama and crises.

I like to know where other people stand and for them to know where I stand.

That way we understand each other and get along better.

Normally people who have sepsis and ganggrene are people who are under treatment

by the allopath..

I am sure we would agree on many issues, and you are correct there are a few

that we would not see eye to eye.

I have rejected the ideas of so-called cures by any kind of health care

provider. I learned a long time ago that the way to prevent dis-ease is by food,

exercise, positive thinking and  fasting.

 I follow the method of Natural Hygiene. I have been a follower of folks Like

Dr. Herbert Shelton, who fasted over 40,000 patients and restored their health.

Most had been given a death sentence by the Allopaths. I try to live as best as

I can by the standards of Bragg. I have learned much in the past 30 years

from writers like Dr. Tilden M.D. , Prof. Arnold Ehret, Dr. Benedict Lust,

M.D., N.D., Bernarr Macfadden, Dr. Henry Lindlahr, M.D. just to name a few.  I

also reject the germ theory. As far as the dead coming to life (virus) I believe

that to be inbetween a con game and absurd. A person with sepsis(blood

poisioning) are normally  found in a hospital.  They load the person up with

drugs. The body trys to eliminate that poison. The cells are poisoned and die

trying to eliminate the poison.

The blood is finally filled with poison and dead cells. And the Allopaths blame

it on the little old lady down the hall.I questoned  a nurse and a doctor about

that, why they did remember nurse down in Florida or somewhere who they heard

had sepsis. In my education I have learned that there is only one cause of

disease and one way to restore health. We don't use the word cure. Toxema is the

cause and elimination of the poison will return the body to health. I have no

arguement with those who through ignorance of the Natural laws of Health  do not

take care of themselves and than with the same ignorance run to an Allopath

looking foolishly for a cure. For them it is a one way street. Suffering and

death. Their Quality of life is always worse. The major point of disagreement I

have is your statement that in a crises drugs can be lifesaving. Maybe I am

missing something. How can a poisonous drug save a life? What power of healing

does it have?

Since it is my understanding that a drug cannot act and has no power of action

and is classified as a poison by the drug companys themselves and is just an

inert substance, I cannot be in agreement with that belief. I am always open to

learn, so maybe you can tell me of what situation a drug can save a life. Just

for the record my wife does not eat or live the way I do and 3 months ago, she

developed a suspected clot in her leg. The leg was sore, painful and had a red

line about 6 or 7 inches running down it. All my medical friends including my

chiopractor friend said I better take her to the hospital. They all agreed she

might have a clot and if the clot broke loose it could hit the heart and she

would die. My wife went to bed and started a water fast. I told her the decision

was hers to make. I then called Dr. Virginia Vetrano D.C. She was the assistant

to Dr. Shelton that I sent my daughter to 30 years ago. I described the leg to

her. She said what

is she doing? I said fasting , this is her 2nd day. Dr. V. in her quiet, calm

and laid back Texas way said, tell her to continue the fast, stay in bed, do as

little moving as possible. The body will dissolve the clot. She broke the fast

after nine days. She is now back at work. This information is given, not to bump

heads with you or anyone else, but because these are just a few of the

experiences I have had with the Hygienic system of healing.  When I share my

beliefs as does everyone else I hope someone will investigate for themselves.

You are correct, you have to do what you believe to be right just as I do. Again

I understand your position and if you feel studies are important, it is your

right to express them. I just wanted clarifcation on your view of drugs. You

have given it to me and now I have a better idea of your beliefs. If I have

offended you it was not intentional as in the bottom line we are on the same

page on many issues.

 

Jim

 

 

Re: THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE

My comment about judicious use and only when absolutely necessary is

referring not to allopathic drugs but more to allopathic procedures,

to incidences of something more immediately life threatening such as a

ruptured appendix or hemorhaging after an accident, at which times I

do feel that allopathic medicine is necessary because I know of no

state, in which, any other profession is licensed to perform surgical

interventions. Allopathic medicine does have a place in short term

crisis care.

No, I do not believe in the use of drugs for every little ailment or

as a long term fixes, I do (as a matter of personal opinion and I

understand that you may disagree with me) feel that in a case of

severe infection to the point of gangrene and systemic sepsis that

antibiotic therapy can be beneficial to that individual's recovery, at

least in the short term. Yes, natural therapies, nutritionals and

homeopathy can be an important part of the long term recovery and true

health. But would I recommend to someone that those should be their

only route of treatment with an infectious agent going systemic? I

don't think so. I also feel that anticoagulants are appropriate, in

the short term, for someone suffering an embolism. Yes they would be

better served after the crisis is over to manage their health more

naturally, but in crisis pharmaceuticals can be lifesaving.

Before I draw too much heat for my stance, let me state that as a

licensed health provider in my state I am held to a different standard

than members of the general public. If I were to simply tell all my

patients that they should not be taking their prescribed meds because

they don't need them, I am pretty sure that I would be sued for

malpractice and probably sanctioned by my own licensing board.

I do consider myself to have a pretty significant knowledge of this

health and sickness business (having practiced for 18 years) and

considering the media influence that BigPharma has, how are we going

to get our point across to the public and the powers that be, without

basing our arguments or in my case, my recommendations on some of

those time consuming studies?

Russ

> >

> > Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and

> > vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be

> > abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except

> > according to the statistics created by those in the business of

> > promoting these products. When someone dies from this stuff

> > called " medicine " , doctors are well versed in how to cover up. The

> > death certificate might read " heart failure " . When some dies from the

> > flu shot, which happens more often than you think, once again the

> > death certificate might read " heart failure " . The drug companies

> > manage to keep a clean slate. I find that the number one cause of

> > sickness, disease, premature death, birth defects and crime in our

> > society is medicinal drugs. Unexplainable mass murders are not caused

> > by those who failed to take their medicine, but by those who did take

> > it. Children who kill are not children who failed to take their

> > prozac. They are children who did take it. Nothing causes more

> > depression than anti-depressants. The Jefferey Dahmers of the world

> > are almost always those who took their medicine, or the products of

> > mothers who took theirs. We can stop the high rate of crime, the

> > diseases for which no cure can be found, even the budget deficit, by

> > stopping the use of drugs or that stuff called " medicine " . It is the

> > number one cause of our nations earth shattering problems and in

> > time, will prove to be the number one cause of the pollution of the

> > earth's water supply.

> > From: www.medicine- no.com

> >

>

>

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Fantastic Jim. Thanks so much. Fasting is just so beneficial! Glad your wife has

recovered!

Maracuja

From: Jim O <jimokelly@...>

Subject: Re: Re: THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE

Vaccinations

Date: Wednesday, September 3, 2008, 12:04 AM

I have always stated that allopathic is good in trama and crises.

I like to know where other people stand and for them to know where I stand.

That way we understand each other and get along better.

Normally people who have sepsis and ganggrene are people who are under treatment

by the allopath..

I am sure we would agree on many issues, and you are correct there are a few

that we would not see eye to eye.

I have rejected the ideas of so-called cures by any kind of health care

provider. I learned a long time ago that the way to prevent dis-ease is by food,

exercise, positive thinking and  fasting.

 I follow the method of Natural Hygiene. I have been a follower of folks Like

Dr. Herbert Shelton, who fasted over 40,000 patients and restored their health.

Most had been given a death sentence by the Allopaths. I try to live as best as

I can by the standards of Bragg. I have learned much in the past 30 years

from writers like Dr. Tilden M.D. , Prof. Arnold Ehret, Dr. Benedict Lust,

M.D., N.D., Bernarr Macfadden, Dr. Henry Lindlahr, M.D. just to name a few.  I

also reject the germ theory. As far as the dead coming to life (virus) I believe

that to be inbetween a con game and absurd. A person with sepsis(blood

poisioning) are normally  found in a hospital.  They load the person up with

drugs. The body trys to eliminate that poison. The cells are poisoned and die

trying to eliminate the poison.

The blood is finally filled with poison and dead cells. And the Allopaths blame

it on the little old lady down the hall.I questoned  a nurse and a doctor about

that, why they did remember nurse down in Florida or somewhere who they heard

had sepsis. In my education I have learned that there is only one cause of

disease and one way to restore health. We don't use the word cure. Toxema is the

cause and elimination of the poison will return the body to health. I have no

arguement with those who through ignorance of the Natural laws of Health  do not

take care of themselves and than with the same ignorance run to an Allopath

looking foolishly for a cure. For them it is a one way street. Suffering and

death. Their Quality of life is always worse. The major point of disagreement I

have is your statement that in a crises drugs can be lifesaving. Maybe I am

missing something. How can a poisonous drug save a life? What power of healing

does it have?

Since it is my understanding that a drug cannot act and has no power of action

and is classified as a poison by the drug companys themselves and is just an

inert substance, I cannot be in agreement with that belief. I am always open to

learn, so maybe you can tell me of what situation a drug can save a life. Just

for the record my wife does not eat or live the way I do and 3 months ago, she

developed a suspected clot in her leg. The leg was sore, painful and had a red

line about 6 or 7 inches running down it. All my medical friends including my

chiopractor friend said I better take her to the hospital. They all agreed she

might have a clot and if the clot broke loose it could hit the heart and she

would die. My wife went to bed and started a water fast. I told her the decision

was hers to make. I then called Dr. Virginia Vetrano D.C. She was the assistant

to Dr. Shelton that I sent my daughter to 30 years ago. I described the leg to

her. She said what

is she doing? I said fasting , this is her 2nd day. Dr. V. in her quiet, calm

and laid back Texas way said, tell her to continue the fast, stay in bed, do as

little moving as possible. The body will dissolve the clot. She broke the fast

after nine days. She is now back at work. This information is given, not to bump

heads with you or anyone else, but because these are just a few of the

experiences I have had with the Hygienic system of healing.  When I share my

beliefs as does everyone else I hope someone will investigate for themselves.

You are correct, you have to do what you believe to be right just as I do. Again

I understand your position and if you feel studies are important, it is your

right to express them. I just wanted clarifcation on your view of drugs. You

have given it to me and now I have a better idea of your beliefs. If I have

offended you it was not intentional as in the bottom line we are on the same

page on many issues.

 

Jim

 

 

Re: THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE

My comment about judicious use and only when absolutely necessary is

referring not to allopathic drugs but more to allopathic procedures,

to incidences of something more immediately life threatening such as a

ruptured appendix or hemorhaging after an accident, at which times I

do feel that allopathic medicine is necessary because I know of no

state, in which, any other profession is licensed to perform surgical

interventions. Allopathic medicine does have a place in short term

crisis care.

No, I do not believe in the use of drugs for every little ailment or

as a long term fixes, I do (as a matter of personal opinion and I

understand that you may disagree with me) feel that in a case of

severe infection to the point of gangrene and systemic sepsis that

antibiotic therapy can be beneficial to that individual's recovery, at

least in the short term. Yes, natural therapies, nutritionals and

homeopathy can be an important part of the long term recovery and true

health. But would I recommend to someone that those should be their

only route of treatment with an infectious agent going systemic? I

don't think so. I also feel that anticoagulants are appropriate, in

the short term, for someone suffering an embolism. Yes they would be

better served after the crisis is over to manage their health more

naturally, but in crisis pharmaceuticals can be lifesaving.

Before I draw too much heat for my stance, let me state that as a

licensed health provider in my state I am held to a different standard

than members of the general public. If I were to simply tell all my

patients that they should not be taking their prescribed meds because

they don't need them, I am pretty sure that I would be sued for

malpractice and probably sanctioned by my own licensing board.

I do consider myself to have a pretty significant knowledge of this

health and sickness business (having practiced for 18 years) and

considering the media influence that BigPharma has, how are we going

to get our point across to the public and the powers that be, without

basing our arguments or in my case, my recommendations on some of

those time consuming studies?

Russ

> >

> > Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and

> > vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be

> > abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except

> > according to the statistics created by those in the business of

> > promoting these products. When someone dies from this stuff

> > called " medicine " , doctors are well versed in how to cover up. The

> > death certificate might read " heart failure " . When some dies from the

> > flu shot, which happens more often than you think, once again the

> > death certificate might read " heart failure " . The drug companies

> > manage to keep a clean slate. I find that the number one cause of

> > sickness, disease, premature death, birth defects and crime in our

> > society is medicinal drugs. Unexplainable mass murders are not caused

> > by those who failed to take their medicine, but by those who did take

> > it. Children who kill are not children who failed to take their

> > prozac. They are children who did take it. Nothing causes more

> > depression than anti-depressants. The Jefferey Dahmers of the world

> > are almost always those who took their medicine, or the products of

> > mothers who took theirs. We can stop the high rate of crime, the

> > diseases for which no cure can be found, even the budget deficit, by

> > stopping the use of drugs or that stuff called " medicine " . It is the

> > number one cause of our nations earth shattering problems and in

> > time, will prove to be the number one cause of the pollution of the

> > earth's water supply.

> > From: www.medicine- no.com

> >

>

>

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Glad to know there is another faster on the list

We travel a lonely road.

 

Thanks

 

Jim

Re: THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE

My comment about judicious use and only when absolutely necessary is

referring not to allopathic drugs but more to allopathic procedures,

to incidences of something more immediately life threatening such as a

ruptured appendix or hemorhaging after an accident, at which times I

do feel that allopathic medicine is necessary because I know of no

state, in which, any other profession is licensed to perform surgical

interventions. Allopathic medicine does have a place in short term

crisis care.

No, I do not believe in the use of drugs for every little ailment or

as a long term fixes, I do (as a matter of personal opinion and I

understand that you may disagree with me) feel that in a case of

severe infection to the point of gangrene and systemic sepsis that

antibiotic therapy can be beneficial to that individual's recovery, at

least in the short term. Yes, natural therapies, nutritionals and

homeopathy can be an important part of the long term recovery and true

health. But would I recommend to someone that those should be their

only route of treatment with an infectious agent going systemic? I

don't think so. I also feel that anticoagulants are appropriate, in

the short term, for someone suffering an embolism. Yes they would be

better served after the crisis is over to manage their health more

naturally, but in crisis pharmaceuticals can be lifesaving.

Before I draw too much heat for my stance, let me state that as a

licensed health provider in my state I am held to a different standard

than members of the general public. If I were to simply tell all my

patients that they should not be taking their prescribed meds because

they don't need them, I am pretty sure that I would be sued for

malpractice and probably sanctioned by my own licensing board.

I do consider myself to have a pretty significant knowledge of this

health and sickness business (having practiced for 18 years) and

considering the media influence that BigPharma has, how are we going

to get our point across to the public and the powers that be, without

basing our arguments or in my case, my recommendations on some of

those time consuming studies?

Russ

> >

> > Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and

> > vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be

> > abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except

> > according to the statistics created by those in the business of

> > promoting these products. When someone dies from this stuff

> > called " medicine " , doctors are well versed in how to cover up. The

> > death certificate might read " heart failure " . When some dies from the

> > flu shot, which happens more often than you think, once again the

> > death certificate might read " heart failure " . The drug companies

> > manage to keep a clean slate. I find that the number one cause of

> > sickness, disease, premature death, birth defects and crime in our

> > society is medicinal drugs. Unexplainable mass murders are not caused

> > by those who failed to take their medicine, but by those who did take

> > it. Children who kill are not children who failed to take their

> > prozac. They are children who did take it. Nothing causes more

> > depression than anti-depressants.. The Jefferey Dahmers of the world

> > are almost always those who took their medicine, or the products of

> > mothers who took theirs. We can stop the high rate of crime, the

> > diseases for which no cure can be found, even the budget deficit, by

> > stopping the use of drugs or that stuff called " medicine " . It is the

> > number one cause of our nations earth shattering problems and in

> > time, will prove to be the number one cause of the pollution of the

> > earth's water supply.

> > From: www.medicine- no.com

> >

>

>

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Jim,

At the risk of taking this too far off topic.....I appreciate your

response and would not bump heads with you at all regarding your

management of your wifes apparent blood clot. It is after a clot has

apparently embolised and could be compromising circulation within the

heart or lungs that I feel anticoagulants would be prudent.

Since you inquired as to my belief in drugs being beneficial I will

explain myself abit more. I again see this as a crisis management,

where the immediate risk of the unchecked process out weighs the risk

of short term intervention. If an individual is at risk of organ

failure or damage due to a hemorrhagic or necrotic process induced by

the pathogen and their immune system is too overwhelmed, debilitated

or compromised to overcome the pathogen, I believe that a brief

regimen of antibiotics could then be of benefit. Since by nature, as

you say, they are toxic, also to the pathogenic organism (provided the

physician has done their homework and prescribes the correct

antibiotic) they can hopefully interrupt the life cycle of the

pathogen long enough to allow the patient's immune system to

recuperate and catch up. By all means holistic steps should be taken

along the way to strengthen the system, the drugs in and of themselves

can not " heal " the body. I whole-heartedly agree that it is only the

immune system which can regain and maintain an individual's health.

So, hopefully this can help clarify some of my views. You say I sound

somewhat waffling on my veiws? I suppose it could be interpreted as

such. I have found very few absolutes in health care, the exception

being that we all will die someday. I therefore probably go out of my

way to avoid, and maybe take exception to (my apologies), " always " and

" never " statements. Isn't that the critism of so many of the posts on

this site...the unflinching opinion/attitude of the MD's and powers

that be?

So Jim, can we agree that allopathic medicine is best suited for

crisis and trauma care. Health maintainance is best done through

personal responsibility and care of one's body environment and some of

us on the list can see exceptions to certain rules where others see

black and white? Shake hands and part friends?

> > >

> > > Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and

> > > vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be

> > > abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except

> > > according to the statistics created by those in the business of

> > > promoting these products. When someone dies from this stuff

> > > called " medicine " , doctors are well versed in how to cover up. The

> > > death certificate might read " heart failure " . When some dies

from the

> > > flu shot, which happens more often than you think, once again the

> > > death certificate might read " heart failure " . The drug companies

> > > manage to keep a clean slate. I find that the number one cause of

> > > sickness, disease, premature death, birth defects and crime in our

> > > society is medicinal drugs. Unexplainable mass murders are not

caused

> > > by those who failed to take their medicine, but by those who did

take

> > > it. Children who kill are not children who failed to take their

> > > prozac. They are children who did take it. Nothing causes more

> > > depression than anti-depressants. The Jefferey Dahmers of the world

> > > are almost always those who took their medicine, or the products of

> > > mothers who took theirs. We can stop the high rate of crime, the

> > > diseases for which no cure can be found, even the budget

deficit, by

> > > stopping the use of drugs or that stuff called " medicine " . It is

the

> > > number one cause of our nations earth shattering problems and in

> > > time, will prove to be the number one cause of the pollution of the

> > > earth's water supply.

> > > From: www.medicine- no.com

> > >

> >

> >

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> > photos and

> > more online.

> > .

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> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Russ

My definition of trama and crises is limited to broken bones and

sewing one up to stop the bleeding. If one were in extreme pain they might take

a pain killer for a short while.

But it would be to stop the pain, not to kill germs which I reject as a cause of

disease. I reject the germ theory because of all the books I have read. That is

where we have a parting of the ways. However I am sure we can agree to disagree,

agreeably. Just curious, by what method does a physician prescribe the correct

anti(against) biotic(life)

for those who may not know what the term antibotic means?

I remember back in the late 70s. I was selling custom tailored suits.. A local

physician ask me to wait in his waiting room. On the desk was a small wheel. You

may remember the ones in school. You would turn it until you found the right

answer, like 2+2=4. Only his said symptom. And the answer would provide what

drug to give. This device of course was given to him by the drug salesman, the

same person who educates the physician on all his life saving drugs and

vaccines. When I sold insurance I  spoke to hundreds of customers who were being

given the right drug. The only problem was the drugs never solved the problem

and the physician just kept prescribing another and another. I'm sorry somewhere

along the line I thought you were a chiropractor. I must be thinking of someone

else.  I just think that vaccines and drugs are in the same class and believe

that one is as poisonious as the other. It doesn't make sense to me that a

person would understand

that vaccines will cause disease, disability and death and think drugs won't do

the same. If a person wants to remain healthy they need to practice the things

that cause health and to avoid things that cause one to get sick. I may be wrong

but I think Sheri might think that a good honest difference of opinion might be

good for those on the list who are in shallow water and looking to learn from

people like us who know what the battle is from a first hand experience and the

backing of M.D.s and Health experts behind both of us. Our only real difference

is the people we have learned from and the theories we have accepted or

rejected. I hold no hard feelings and hope we cross paths from time to time in a

similar friendly manner.

Jim

 

Re: THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE

Jim,

At the risk of taking this too far off topic.....I appreciate your

response and would not bump heads with you at all regarding your

management of your wifes apparent blood clot. It is after a clot has

apparently embolised and could be compromising circulation within the

heart or lungs that I feel anticoagulants would be prudent.

Since you inquired as to my belief in drugs being beneficial I will

explain myself abit more. I again see this as a crisis management,

where the immediate risk of the unchecked process out weighs the risk

of short term intervention. If an individual is at risk of organ

failure or damage due to a hemorrhagic or necrotic process induced by

the pathogen and their immune system is too overwhelmed, debilitated

or compromised to overcome the pathogen, I believe that a brief

regimen of antibiotics could then be of benefit. Since by nature, as

you say, they are toxic, also to the pathogenic organism (provided the

physician has done their homework and prescribes the correct

antibiotic) they can hopefully interrupt the life cycle of the

pathogen long enough to allow the patient's immune system to

recuperate and catch up. By all means holistic steps should be taken

along the way to strengthen the system, the drugs in and of themselves

can not " heal " the body. I whole-heartedly agree that it is only the

immune system which can regain and maintain an individual's health.

So, hopefully this can help clarify some of my views. You say I sound

somewhat waffling on my veiws? I suppose it could be interpreted as

such. I have found very few absolutes in health care, the exception

being that we all will die someday. I therefore probably go out of my

way to avoid, and maybe take exception to (my apologies), " always " and

" never " statements. Isn't that the critism of so many of the posts on

this site...the unflinching opinion/attitude of the MD's and powers

that be?

So Jim, can we agree that allopathic medicine is best suited for

crisis and trauma care. Health maintainance is best done through

personal responsibility and care of one's body environment and some of

us on the list can see exceptions to certain rules where others see

black and white? Shake hands and part friends?

> > >

> > > Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and

> > > vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be

> > > abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except

> > > according to the statistics created by those in the business of

> > > promoting these products. When someone dies from this stuff

> > > called " medicine " , doctors are well versed in how to cover up. The

> > > death certificate might read " heart failure " . When some dies

from the

> > > flu shot, which happens more often than you think, once again the

> > > death certificate might read " heart failure " . The drug companies

> > > manage to keep a clean slate. I find that the number one cause of

> > > sickness, disease, premature death, birth defects and crime in our

> > > society is medicinal drugs. Unexplainable mass murders are not

caused

> > > by those who failed to take their medicine, but by those who did

take

> > > it. Children who kill are not children who failed to take their

> > > prozac. They are children who did take it. Nothing causes more

> > > depression than anti-depressants. The Jefferey Dahmers of the world

> > > are almost always those who took their medicine, or the products of

> > > mothers who took theirs. We can stop the high rate of crime, the

> > > diseases for which no cure can be found, even the budget

deficit, by

> > > stopping the use of drugs or that stuff called " medicine " . It is

the

> > > number one cause of our nations earth shattering problems and in

> > > time, will prove to be the number one cause of the pollution of the

> > > earth's water supply.

> > > From: www.medicine- no.com

> > >

> >

> >

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> > photos and

> > more online.

> > .

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> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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>

>

> But it would be to stop the pain, not to kill germs which I reject

as a cause of disease. I reject the germ theory because of all the

books I have read. 

I'd be interested in reading these books. Can you tell me what they are?

Bronwyn

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Who is your Doctor and Why by Alonzo Jay Shadman

He was a surgeon who believed in Homeopathy.

Chapter 6.  The Nature of Disease.  " First of all, you must thoroughly discard

the idead that all diseases are caused by germs. Remember that germs are a

concomitant of disease. They are present in a sick person BECAUSE  of the

disease, not the cause of the disease. " Also BECHAMP or PASTEUR by E.

Hume Also Pasteur plagiarist impostor-The germ theory exploded by R.B. Pearson

Also books by Bragg and Dr. Herbert Shelton. There are many others but this

should give you a start.

 

Jim O'

Founder of S.I.N.B.A.D.

Shots in body's are dangerous

and drugs(meds) too

Re: THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE

>

>

> But it would be to stop the pain, not to kill germs which I reject

as a cause of disease. I reject the germ theory because of all the

books I have read. 

I'd be interested in reading these books. Can you tell me what they are?

Bronwyn

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Share on other sites

>

> Who is your Doctor and Why by Alonzo Jay Shadman

> He was a surgeon who believed in Homeopathy.

> Chapter 6.  The Nature of Disease.  " First of all, you must

thoroughly discard the idead that all diseases are caused by germs.

Remember that germs are a concomitant of disease. They are present in

a sick person BECAUSE  of the disease, not the cause of the disease. "

Also BECHAMP or PASTEUR by E. Hume Also Pasteur plagiarist

impostor-The germ theory exploded by R.B. Pearson Also books by

Bragg and Dr. Herbert Shelton. There are many others but this should

give you a start.

>  

> Jim O'

> Founder of S.I.N.B.A.D.

> Shots in body's are dangerous

> and drugs(meds) too

>

>

Thank you! Off to do some reading.

Bronwyn

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<If I have offended you it was not intentional as in the bottom line we are on

the same page on many issues.>

Jim... FYI... you and I are on the same page on ALL issues ALL the time..  You

are invaluable on this list.  Thank you for always sharing your knowledge/life's

experience and encouraging me to continue on this difficult path. 

Ari 

 

Arianna Mojica-   (UCC 1-207/1-103) 

~~~ " All rights not demanded are presumed waived " . ~ Thurston

Re: THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE

My comment about judicious use and only when absolutely necessary is

referring not to allopathic drugs but more to allopathic procedures,

to incidences of something more immediately life threatening such as a

ruptured appendix or hemorhaging after an accident, at which times I

do feel that allopathic medicine is necessary because I know of no

state, in which, any other profession is licensed to perform surgical

interventions. Allopathic medicine does have a place in short term

crisis care.

No, I do not believe in the use of drugs for every little ailment or

as a long term fixes, I do (as a matter of personal opinion and I

understand that you may disagree with me) feel that in a case of

severe infection to the point of gangrene and systemic sepsis that

antibiotic therapy can be beneficial to that individual's recovery, at

least in the short term. Yes, natural therapies, nutritionals and

homeopathy can be an important part of the long term recovery and true

health. But would I recommend to someone that those should be their

only route of treatment with an infectious agent going systemic? I

don't think so. I also feel that anticoagulants are appropriate, in

the short term, for someone suffering an embolism. Yes they would be

better served after the crisis is over to manage their health more

naturally, but in crisis pharmaceuticals can be lifesaving.

Before I draw too much heat for my stance, let me state that as a

licensed health provider in my state I am held to a different standard

than members of the general public. If I were to simply tell all my

patients that they should not be taking their prescribed meds because

they don't need them, I am pretty sure that I would be sued for

malpractice and probably sanctioned by my own licensing board.

I do consider myself to have a pretty significant knowledge of this

health and sickness business (having practiced for 18 years) and

considering the media influence that BigPharma has, how are we going

to get our point across to the public and the powers that be, without

basing our arguments or in my case, my recommendations on some of

those time consuming studies?

Russ

> >

> > Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and

> > vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be

> > abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except

> > according to the statistics created by those in the business of

> > promoting these products. When someone dies from this stuff

> > called " medicine " , doctors are well versed in how to cover up. The

> > death certificate might read " heart failure " . When some dies from the

> > flu shot, which happens more often than you think, once again the

> > death certificate might read " heart failure " . The drug companies

> > manage to keep a clean slate. I find that the number one cause of

> > sickness, disease, premature death, birth defects and crime in our

> > society is medicinal drugs. Unexplainable mass murders are not caused

> > by those who failed to take their medicine, but by those who did take

> > it. Children who kill are not children who failed to take their

> > prozac. They are children who did take it. Nothing causes more

> > depression than anti-depressants. The Jefferey Dahmers of the world

> > are almost always those who took their medicine, or the products of

> > mothers who took theirs. We can stop the high rate of crime, the

> > diseases for which no cure can be found, even the budget deficit, by

> > stopping the use of drugs or that stuff called " medicine " . It is the

> > number one cause of our nations earth shattering problems and in

> > time, will prove to be the number one cause of the pollution of the

> > earth's water supply.

> > From: www.medicine- no.com

> >

>

>

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>

> Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and

> vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be

> abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except

> according to the statistics created by those in the business of

> promoting these products.

I've been studying this idea for a while now and i am still not

confortable to go as far as saying that all medicine is evil. I would

like more proof and more time to study this subject thoroughly. I

would like to believe that we can live without any drugs/medicine but

can it really work out that way in real life? So many people take

some kind of prescription medicine and they say they feel better

because of it, that it vital to their survival. I've read a few cases

where some religious fanatics kept all meds away from their children

who had diabetis and the children died. Just looking around in my

life, many of my friends have taken antibiotics many times and say

they would over and over if they had to. My friend is on antibiotics

because of Lyme disease and she is a healthy 31 female who had

arthritis because the diesease was not diagnosed until a year later

when it was in a last stage(artritic knee), she went on antibiotics

for a month and felt great afterwards. My neighbore had horribile

stomach ache & was diagnosed with ulcer due to H.Pylori, went on

antibiotics many years ago, felt brand new and never had that problem

again. How can all these cures be explained? I see first hand that

medicines do help, unless i am missing something?

Katarina

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>I think what you are witnessing is a masking of symptoms, but the

illness is still there. In fact, people with chronic illnesses take

medication usually for life since the medication never really cures

them. Also, I think a lot of it is psychological too and people

instantly feel better when they believe a medication is making them

healthier, probably would be the same with a placebo. With

antibiotics, they may kill bad bacteria, but also the good bacteria

which leaves one with a whole bunch of other troubles. Plus, I've been

sick at times and doctor tells me to take the antibiotics cause there

is no way I could get better on my own, but then I do get better

without taking them. People never give their bodies the chance to

fight off whatever it is making them sick, they turn right away to

medications, so how can they possibly know how capable the immune

system is on it's own.

I used to always think if you get an infection that you have to take

antibiotics or the infection will never go away and it will only

progress and you will eventually die. I know now this is absolutely

not true, but I think many people still think it is.

---------------------------------------------

>> So many people take

> some kind of prescription medicine and they say they feel better

> because of it, that it vital to their survival.

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Medicine is not evil, it is poison. People take drugs because they don't know

any better. They have not learned the cause of disease or the way to get better

when they are sick. The body is self healing. When a person is sick and they

take a drug, they get better in spite of the drug not because of it. They feel

better because drugs paralize the nerves and the pain stops even though the

problem (disease) still exists. Plus many drugs are no different than the drugs

on the street. They make you feel good. Lyme disease is just another Allopathic

name for toxemia. Anyone who has arthritis is a long way from being healthy.

Unless you get arthritis from vaccines or drugs it generally takes a long time

to develope. Lets try to explain it this way.. You, winnie, Ari, and I all get a

cold at the same time with the same severity. You take your doctors drugs.

Winnie doesn't like drugs so she takes vitamins. Ari doesn't dig either of those

and chooses  Acupuncture.

I don't take anything. We all get well. You say you got well because of the

drugs. Winnie credits the vitamins and Ari is convinced it was the Acupuncture.

Question. What got me well? The next time you cut yourself (just a little one I

hope) watch what happens. That wonderful body of yours goes right to work,

without asking a doctor. Watch the way it heals all by itself. Well the same

healing goes on in the inside also. it works whether we want it to or not. Most

people have been brainwashed by the drug companys that the drug heals. That is a

scientific impossibility. A drug has no power of action or power to heal. Ask

your friends why they take drugs when their sick. Their answers should prove

they simply believe all the deception and lies the drug companys put on T.V.

Think of this if a person is sick and takes a drug and gets well and you say the

drug got that person well and that is proof, would you also say that because I

have been sick and injured

many times in my life and I never took any drugs that could also be proof that

drugs don't cure. So as far as proof goes we at least know that a person can get

well without drugs. But how many people a year get sick and or die while they

are taking the drugs? Just for the record, the word medicine means something

that can help the healing process. This would be fruits and vegetables, fresh

air if you can find any, subshine, exercise and positive mental thinking. The

word drug means something used to treat. A big difference Ever notice the sign

on drugs stores NEVER says medicine store. A suggested great book was written by

Harvey Diamond called fit for life. And last but not least how did mankind

survive before Allopaths started giving Arsnic, mercury , opium, and whiskey to

cure people of their bad habits?

 

Jim

Re: THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE

>

> Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and

> vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be

> abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except

> according to the statistics created by those in the business of

> promoting these products.

I've been studying this idea for a while now and i am still not

confortable to go as far as saying that all medicine is evil. I would

like more proof and more time to study this subject thoroughly. I

would like to believe that we can live without any drugs/medicine but

can it really work out that way in real life? So many people take

some kind of prescription medicine and they say they feel better

because of it, that it vital to their survival. I've read a few cases

where some religious fanatics kept all meds away from their children

who had diabetis and the children died. Just looking around in my

life, many of my friends have taken antibiotics many times and say

they would over and over if they had to. My friend is on antibiotics

because of Lyme disease and she is a healthy 31 female who had

arthritis because the diesease was not diagnosed until a year later

when it was in a last stage(artritic knee), she went on antibiotics

for a month and felt great afterwards. My neighbore had horribile

stomach ache & was diagnosed with ulcer due to H.Pylori, went on

antibiotics many years ago, felt brand new and never had that problem

again. How can all these cures be explained? I see first hand that

medicines do help, unless i am missing something?

Katarina

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Hi Ari

It is 1.12 am. I have just gotten home from work and I am very tired.

Reading your comment made my day. Thank you. You and the others on this list

help to keep me going also.

 

Jim

Re: THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE

My comment about judicious use and only when absolutely necessary is

referring not to allopathic drugs but more to allopathic procedures,

to incidences of something more immediately life threatening such as a

ruptured appendix or hemorhaging after an accident, at which times I

do feel that allopathic medicine is necessary because I know of no

state, in which, any other profession is licensed to perform surgical

interventions. Allopathic medicine does have a place in short term

crisis care.

No, I do not believe in the use of drugs for every little ailment or

as a long term fixes, I do (as a matter of personal opinion and I

understand that you may disagree with me) feel that in a case of

severe infection to the point of gangrene and systemic sepsis that

antibiotic therapy can be beneficial to that individual's recovery, at

least in the short term. Yes, natural therapies, nutritionals and

homeopathy can be an important part of the long term recovery and true

health. But would I recommend to someone that those should be their

only route of treatment with an infectious agent going systemic? I

don't think so. I also feel that anticoagulants are appropriate, in

the short term, for someone suffering an embolism. Yes they would be

better served after the crisis is over to manage their health more

naturally, but in crisis pharmaceuticals can be lifesaving.

Before I draw too much heat for my stance, let me state that as a

licensed health provider in my state I am held to a different standard

than members of the general public. If I were to simply tell all my

patients that they should not be taking their prescribed meds because

they don't need them, I am pretty sure that I would be sued for

malpractice and probably sanctioned by my own licensing board.

I do consider myself to have a pretty significant knowledge of this

health and sickness business (having practiced for 18 years) and

considering the media influence that BigPharma has, how are we going

to get our point across to the public and the powers that be, without

basing our arguments or in my case, my recommendations on some of

those time consuming studies?

Russ

> >

> > Drugs are not the cure, they are the cause. The use of drugs and

> > vaccinations in the treatment and prevention of disease should be

> > abolished. It doesn't work, it never did and never will, except

> > according to the statistics created by those in the business of

> > promoting these products. When someone dies from this stuff

> > called " medicine " , doctors are well versed in how to cover up. The

> > death certificate might read " heart failure " . When some dies from the

> > flu shot, which happens more often than you think, once again the

> > death certificate might read " heart failure " . The drug companies

> > manage to keep a clean slate. I find that the number one cause of

> > sickness, disease, premature death, birth defects and crime in our

> > society is medicinal drugs. Unexplainable mass murders are not caused

> > by those who failed to take their medicine, but by those who did take

> > it. Children who kill are not children who failed to take their

> > prozac. They are children who did take it. Nothing causes more

> > depression than anti-depressants. The Jefferey Dahmers of the world

> > are almost always those who took their medicine, or the products of

> > mothers who took theirs. We can stop the high rate of crime, the

> > diseases for which no cure can be found, even the budget deficit, by

> > stopping the use of drugs or that stuff called " medicine " . It is the

> > number one cause of our nations earth shattering problems and in

> > time, will prove to be the number one cause of the pollution of the

> > earth's water supply.

> > From: www.medicine- no.com

> >

>

>

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At 07:15 AM 9/5/2008, you wrote:

>Hi Ari

>It is 1.12 am. I have just gotten home from work and I am very tired.

>Reading your comment made my day. Thank you. You and the others on this list

>help to keep me going also.

>

>Jim

Yes, we all need each other for our sanity! (as well as our health)

Sheri

PS - reminder to trim the posts

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Thank you all for this honest dialogue - this is enriching and

definitely gave me things I need to think about...I wish I can have

these same discussions with our physicians! I think this is healthy

that we challenge perspectives (something I have not always done or was

not 'allowed' to do with my docs) and like others, I am seeking the raw

truth and be able to say to our adversaries/big pharna/vaxers, " no "

or " I need more info " or " that answer is not good enough " etc.

You all help me do this and do it quite well!

mabel

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VERY GOOD

Re: THE STUFF CALLED MEDICINE

Thank you all for this honest dialogue - this is enriching and

definitely gave me things I need to think about...I wish I can have

these same discussions with our physicians! I think this is healthy

that we challenge perspectives (something I have not always done or was

not 'allowed' to do with my docs) and like others, I am seeking the raw

truth and be able to say to our adversaries/big pharna/vaxers, " no "

or " I need more info " or " that answer is not good enough " etc.

You all help me do this and do it quite well!

mabel

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