Re: What training do docs get on vax?

[Guest guest]

At 01:41 PM 9/13/2008, you wrote:

>Does anyone know what training docs get on what's in those

>syringes? From what I've seen in most dr offices, there's a sales

>rep dressed in a nice suit with free samples ready to give out

that's pretty much it

>but I don't believe they have any medical/science background so how

>are the docs educated on what they're buying/dispensing? Do they go

>to classes, if so, who provides them? or do they read (laugh!) the

>inserts like the rest of us?

none of the above

Sheri

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, former R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

Vaccines - http://www.wellwithin1.com/vaccine.htm

Vaccine Dangers & Homeopathy Online/email courses - next classes Sept 10, 2008

[Guest guest]

Very good question.

Winnie

What training do docs get on vax?

Vaccinations

> Does anyone know what training docs get on what's in those

> syringes? From what I've seen in most dr offices, there's a

> sales rep dressed in a nice suit with free samples ready to give

> out but I don't believe they have any medical/science background

> so how are the docs educated on what they're buying/dispensing?

> Do they go to classes, if so, who provides them? or do they

> read (laugh!) the inserts like the rest of us?

>

> mabel

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have to say Sheri is right. All they have is the salesman's word

about these drugs/vaccines. My husband was recrutied by a drug

company to become a pharmaceutical rep... after talking to one of the

" seasoned " reps, he declined to hire on, because it goes against

everything he (and we) stand for. He said some of the strategies they

used were down right pathetic (taking the docs out to stripper bars,

giving them free vacations, etc.) He would have made a LOT of money

to shmooze the doctors into using his drugs, but he felt it wasn't

worth the karmic load...

On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 7:13 AM, Sheri Nakken <vaccineinfo@...> wrote:

> At 01:41 PM 9/13/2008, you wrote:

>>Does anyone know what training docs get on what's in those

>>syringes? From what I've seen in most dr offices, there's a sales

>>rep dressed in a nice suit with free samples ready to give out

>

> that's pretty much it

>

>>but I don't believe they have any medical/science background so how

>>are the docs educated on what they're buying/dispensing? Do they go

>>to classes, if so, who provides them? or do they read (laugh!) the

>>inserts like the rest of us?

>

> none of the above

>

> Sheri

[Guest guest]

I have a friend (woman) who used to work for Merck. Not sure if she was a rep

but she was a medical writer of some sort, so maybe for Merck, too. Anyway, she

said that perhaps other companies were bad but Merck was " just wonderful. "

Shes'a relatively intelligent person so not sure how the wool could have been

pulled over her eyes.

Oh. Money.

Winnie

Re: What training do docs get on vax?

Vaccinations

> I have to say Sheri is right. All they have is the salesman's word

> about these drugs/vaccines. My husband was recrutied by a drug

> company to become a pharmaceutical rep... after talking to one

> of the

> " seasoned " reps, he declined to hire on, because it goes against

> everything he (and we) stand for. He said some of the

> strategies they

> used were down right pathetic (taking the docs out to stripper bars,

> giving them free vacations, etc.) He would have made a LOT of money

> to shmooze the doctors into using his drugs, but he felt it wasn't

> worth the karmic load...

>

>

>

>

>

> On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 7:13 AM, Sheri Nakken

> wrote:

> > At 01:41 PM 9/13/2008, you wrote:

> >>Does anyone know what training docs get on what's in those

> >>syringes? From what I've seen in most dr offices, there's a sales

> >>rep dressed in a nice suit with free samples ready to give out

> >

> > that's pretty much it

> >

> >>but I don't believe they have any medical/science background

> so how

> >>are the docs educated on what they're buying/dispensing? Do

> they go

> >>to classes, if so, who provides them? or do they read (laugh!) the

> >>inserts like the rest of us?

> >

> > none of the above

> >

> > Sheri

>

[Guest guest]

Oh yes, Merck, the makers of Vioxx and that other drug they pulled off the

market.....sooo wonderful.

Re: What training do docs get on vax?

Vaccinations

> I have to say Sheri is right. All they have is the salesman's word

> about these drugs/vaccines. My husband was recrutied by a drug

> company to become a pharmaceutical rep... after talking to one

> of the

> " seasoned " reps, he declined to hire on, because it goes against

> everything he (and we) stand for. He said some of the

> strategies they

> used were down right pathetic (taking the docs out to stripper bars,

> giving them free vacations, etc.) He would have made a LOT of money

> to shmooze the doctors into using his drugs, but he felt it wasn't

> worth the karmic load...

>

>

>

>

>

> On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 7:13 AM, Sheri Nakken

> wrote:

> > At 01:41 PM 9/13/2008, you wrote:

> >>Does anyone know what training docs get on what's in those

> >>syringes? From what I've seen in most dr offices, there's a sales

> >>rep dressed in a nice suit with free samples ready to give out

> >

> > that's pretty much it

> >

> >>but I don't believe they have any medical/science background

> so how

> >>are the docs educated on what they're buying/dispensing? Do

> they go

> >>to classes, if so, who provides them? or do they read (laugh!) the

> >>inserts like the rest of us?

> >

> > none of the above

> >

> > Sheri

>

[Guest guest]

LOL!! Sadly so true though.

On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 8:31 PM, <wharrison@...> wrote:

> I have a friend (woman) who used to work for Merck. Not sure if she was a

> rep but she was a medical writer of some sort, so maybe for Merck, too.

> Anyway, she said that perhaps other companies were bad but Merck was " just

> wonderful. " Shes'a relatively intelligent person so not sure how the wool

> could have been pulled over her eyes.

>

> Oh. Money.

>

> Winnie

[Guest guest]

My son's first doctor was a really nice guy and eventually ok with me

not vaccinating...and even told me that polio and hep B were worthless.

I sent my sister with her new baby to him and he is totally ok with her

not vaxing and hasn't tried to convince her otherwise.

However, at my baby's two month appointment he reassured me that no

baby in the United States has ever died of a vaccine.

He also told me that commercial formula was not made with cow's milk.

So, I don't know what to think of doctors sometimes.

[Guest guest]

At 04:23 AM 9/14/2008, you wrote:

>My son's first doctor was a really nice guy and eventually ok with me

>not vaccinating...and even told me that polio and hep B were worthless.

>I sent my sister with her new baby to him and he is totally ok with her

>not vaxing and hasn't tried to convince her otherwise.

>However, at my baby's two month appointment he reassured me that no

>baby in the United States has ever died of a vaccine.

Oh man

>He also told me that commercial formula was not made with cow's milk.

So what did he say it was made with?

>So, I don't know what to think of doctors sometimes.

Well..............I hesitate to say

Sheri

[Guest guest]

Monkey milk I guess? I don't know. I asked him and he said he did

not know but it was definitely not cow's milk and then told me to

look out for signs of botulism since I had started giving my son raw

milk formula.

> >My son's first doctor was a really nice guy and eventually ok with

me

> >not vaccinating...and even told me that polio and hep B were

worthless.

> >I sent my sister with her new baby to him and he is totally ok

with her

> >not vaxing and hasn't tried to convince her otherwise.

> >However, at my baby's two month appointment he reassured me that no

> >baby in the United States has ever died of a vaccine.

>

> Oh man

>

> >He also told me that commercial formula was not made with cow's

milk.

>

> So what did he say it was made with?

>

> >So, I don't know what to think of doctors sometimes.

>

>

> Well..............I hesitate to say

> Sheri

>

[Guest guest]

What an idiot! I find it funny that people think you're drinking

disease when you drink raw milk. I grew up on a farm... all we ever

had was raw milk. It was GOOD, and I couldn't stand the milk they

gave in those little cartons at school. It tasted " old " to me. I

used to sneak into the kitchen to the fridge to scoop the cream that

was settling on the top of the fresh milk and eat it. It was better

than ice cream! I give my two-year-old raw goat milk all the time,

and occassionally I give it to my five-mon. They are both healthy and

happy, and are NOT drinking disease! I was pleased to have found a

goat farm that doesn't vaccinate their herd, so that's even better!

On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 6:37 AM, Vida Khan <vidamarino@...> wrote:

> Monkey milk I guess? I don't know. I asked him and he said he did

> not know but it was definitely not cow's milk and then told me to

> look out for signs of botulism since I had started giving my son raw

> milk formula.

[Guest guest]

Doctor's don't get any. They wanted to give peter his vaccines to " catch him

up " when he was 6 months and had a really nasty cold. I said no. the doc

said 'oh it's OK if they don't have a fever " I said no again. His immune

system is already under fire. I came home. I found the package insert online

and it said on it itself that some of his symptoms contraindicated him from

getting the shot they insisted " was just fine " .

The drug reps go in, they tell the doc to recommend this product for such

and such.. there's too much out there that is new, too many drugs coming up

for doctors to do much on their own. I read they depend on the drug reps to

keep them informed.

Nita (crew chief) and the crew: 15, Jon 13, 11, 9,

7, Christian (7/16/03 to 8/22/04), 2 and Isaac, 2/3/08

http://momof6.dotphoto.com <http://momof6.dotphoto.com/> for not

necessarily current pictures

http://nitasspot.blogspot.com

Learn from the mistakes of others. Trust me... you can't live long enough

to make them all yourself.

[Guest guest]

Any doc who relies on a drug rep to keep them informed is in sad

shape......but no, we do not get any training regarding vaccines except for

" this is

what you need to give and this is when you need to give it " . We are not taught

about the reactions or contraindications that you will find in the package

inserts. There is only a half-hearted effort (I think I'm being generous with

that statement) at most clinics to encourage parents to read the VISs and truly

have informed consent.

Since I got into this a few months ago I became outraged at how I have been

misled when in everything else we're taught it's all about scientific

principle and evidence based medicine. I'm even angrier at myself for falling

right

into that trap. I love giving drug reps a hard time. I am skeptical about most

of what they present (except for lunch!). And yet I thought nothing of

injecting chemicals into my patients, myself, and my own kids without really

knowing what I was truly doing. Because someone told me that's what I was

supposed

to do. Ugh!!!!!

G

In a message dated 9/14/2008 1:53:16 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

nitagarner@... writes:

Doctor's don't get any. They wanted to give peter his vaccines to " catch him

up " when he was 6 months and had a really nasty cold. I said no. the doc

said 'oh it's OK if they don't have a fever " I said no again. His immune

system is already under fire. I came home. I found the package insert online

and it said on it itself that some of his symptoms contraindicated him from

getting the shot they insisted " was just fine " .

The drug reps go in, they tell the doc to recommend this product for such

and such.. there's too much out there that is new, too many drugs coming up

for doctors to do much on their own. I read they depend on the drug reps to

keep them informed.

Nita (crew chief) and the crew: 15, Jon 13, 11, 9,

7, Christian (7/16/03 to 8/22/04), 2 and Isaac, 2/3/08

_http://momof6.http://mohtt_ (http://momof6.dotphoto.com/)

<_http://momof6.http://mohttp_ (http://momof6.dotphoto.com/) > for not

necessarily current pictures

_http://nitasspot.http://nihtt_ (http://nitasspot.blogspot.com/)

Learn from the mistakes of others. Trust me... you can't live long enough

to make them all yourself.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,

plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

[Guest guest]

Charlotte, a 10 month old patient of mine, who I delivered, died from strep

pneumo meningitis in May. I had recommended against Prevnar. For 3 weeks I

agonized over this decision. During that time I realized that although I

recommend against most of the newer vaccines (starting with chickenpox) because

I

didn't feel they were necessary and had a gut feeling that we are screwing

with our immune system on a global basis, I really didn't know WHY I was

recommending against them from the medical/scientific viewpoint. The fact that

this

baby who had never been sick before the ear infection that led to her

meningitis made me question my judgement. So I read and read and obsessed over

adjuvants and escape strains. And then I got the path report that stated she

died

from the strain 23a, which developed a couple of years after routine Prevnar

vaccines, and was not covered by it. A strain that is resistant to the first

4 antibiotic choices we would give to children. A strain that is not

resistant to flouroquinolones (which is contraindicated in children) and is the

only

choice for oral therapy!!!

And the more I read about all of this the more disturbed I was. I think

there are a lot of things we don't know about the vaccines, the chemicals in

them, and they have not been given adequate clinical trials. I think drug

companies are influencing the CDC and the researchers who are working with them.

So

now I am trying to research as much as possible to give my patients the

correct information and let them make an informed choice. Can you believe that

no

one at my clinic (including myself) even knew of the VAERS reporting

system??!! Does that not completely outrage you when you think this is the data

they

are using to report safety?? I'm sure that my clinic is fairly representative

of many rural clinics in America.

So that is my sad story, which I hope for Charlotte's sake, may have a happy

ending, at least in my small part of the world.

Gayl

In a message dated 9/14/2008 7:34:56 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

Casper3@... writes:

So what was your " light bulb " moment? I was an obstetric/pediatric RN for

10 years, and it sickens me to think about all of the vaccines and drugs I

administered, to my patients and to my own 2 children.

It wasn't until our puppy had a reaction to vaccines almost 8 years ago that

I started researching about the dangers of vaccines. I was appalled with

what I found.

I'm just curious how you discovered the truth? I think it's awesome that

you have!

Kay in KY

-----Original Message-----

Since I got into this a few months ago I became outraged at how I have been

misled when in everything else we're taught it's all about scientific

principle and evidence based medicine. I'm even angrier at myself for

falling right

into that trap. I love giving drug reps a hard time. I am skeptical about

most

of what they present (except for lunch!). And yet I thought nothing of

injecting chemicals into my patients, myself, and my own kids without

really

knowing what I was truly doing. Because someone told me that's what I was

supposed

to do. Ugh!!!!!

G

**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,

plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

[Guest guest]

ouch on the cow's milk comment.................!!!

G

In a message dated 9/14/2008 3:43:15 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

vaccineinfo@... writes:

At 04:23 AM 9/14/2008, you wrote:

>My son's first doctor was a really nice guy and eventually ok with me

>not vaccinating.not vaccinating.<WBR>..and even told me that polio and

>I sent my sister with her new baby to him and he is totally ok with her

>not vaxing and hasn't tried to convince her otherwise.

>However, at my baby's two month appointment he reassured me that no

>baby in the United States has ever died of a vaccine.

Oh man

>He also told me that commercial formula was not made with cow's milk.

So what did he say it was made with?

>So, I don't know what to think of doctors sometimes.

Well........Well........<WBR>......I he

Sheri

**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,

plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

[Guest guest]

Thank you!

My philosophy is very simple......do what you know is the right thing to do

( and not let money, fame, or public opinion sway you from that path).

G

In a message dated 9/14/2008 8:42:29 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

Casper3@... writes:

What a heartbreaking story. I'm so sorry that happened!

It sounds like Charlotte's death was not in vain though. How many more will

be spared injury or death because of what you are learning now as a result

of her death?

I think it's awesome that you are researching. I have a feeling there are

many other physicians who have an idea that things are not right with

vaccines but choose to keep their heads in the sand because for them the

truth is too much to face.

It's great to have you here!

Kay in KY

-----Original Message-----

Charlotte, a 10 month old patient of mine, who I delivered, died from strep

pneumo meningitis in May. I had recommended against Prevnar. For 3 weeks I

agonized over this decision. During that time I realized that although I

recommend against most of the newer vaccines (starting with chickenpox)

because I

didn't feel they were necessary and had a gut feeling that we are screwing

with our immune system on a global basis, I really didn't know WHY I was

recommending against them from the medical/scientific viewpoint. The fact

that this

baby who had never been sick before the ear infection that led to her

meningitis made me question my judgement. So I read and read and obsessed

over

adjuvants and escape strains. And then I got the path report that stated she

died

from the strain 23a, which developed a couple of years after routine

Prevnar

vaccines, and was not covered by it. A strain that is resistant to the

first

4 antibiotic choices we would give to children. A strain that is not

resistant to flouroquinolones (which is contraindicated in children) and is

the only

choice for oral therapy!!!

And the more I read about all of this the more disturbed I was. I think

there are a lot of things we don't know about the vaccines, the chemicals in

them, and they have not been given adequate clinical trials. I think drug

companies are influencing the CDC and the researchers who are working with

them. So

now I am trying to research as much as possible to give my patients the

correct information and let them make an informed choice. Can you believe

that no

one at my clinic (including myself) even knew of the VAERS reporting

system??!! Does that not completely outrage you when you think this is the

data they

are using to report safety?? I'm sure that my clinic is fairly

representative

of many rural clinics in America.

So that is my sad story, which I hope for Charlotte's sake, may have a

happy

ending, at least in my small part of the world.

Gayl

**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,

plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

[Guest guest]

Charlotte came in initially with an ear infection, very routine, bit of a

fever, fussy, etc. Continued to get worse over a period of days despite

switching to stronger antibiotics. She came back seizing and was flown to the

regional pediatric intensive care facility. So pretty sure the ear infection led

to

the meningitis. She did have her other " routine " 2, 4,and 6 month

immunizations - Pediarix and Hib

And btw, I never prescribe antibiotics for red ear drums alone!!!! LOL

G

In a message dated 9/14/2008 8:46:59 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

wharrison@... writes:

Poor little Charlotte. No doubt the vaccine wouldn't have worked then,

having the wrong strain (not that I believe they work anyway, but let's say

they

do). If you had recommended the vaccine and she'd received it, you probably

would never have researched it afterwards to discover the info on the different

strains.

I'm curious (as a parent whose one child was plagued with ear infections

after an MMR, and of another unvaxed one who got ear infections after being

given antibiotics for an unrelated condition), did Charlotte have other ear

infections? Had she ever been vaccinated? How do you know the meningitis came

from

the ear infection?

I ask because I now know that my first son's ear infections were actually

allergies, and both my boys had their immune systems messed up by the

antibiotics, resulting in more " ear infections " and respiratory illnesses. I

never

once had any doc confirm the bacteria that was supposedly in my son's ears, yet

they prescribed many antibiotics based on red ear drums.

Winnie

Re: RE: Re: What training do docs get on vax?

_Vaccinations@VaccinationsVac_ (mailto:Vaccinations )

> Charlotte, a 10 month old patient of mine, who I delivered, died

> from strep

> pneumo meningitis in May. I had recommended against Prevnar. For

> 3 weeks I

> agonized over this decision. During that time I realized that

> although I

> recommend against most of the newer vaccines (starting with

> chickenpox) because I

> didn't feel they were necessary and had a gut feeling that we

> are screwing

> with our immune system on a global basis, I really didn't know

> WHY I was

> recommending against them from the medical/scientific viewpoint.

> The fact that this

> baby who had never been sick before the ear infection that led

> to her

> meningitis made me question my judgement. So I read and read and

> obsessed over

> adjuvants and escape strains. And then I got the path report

> that stated she died

> from the strain 23a, which developed a couple of years after

> routine Prevnar

> vaccines, and was not covered by it. A strain that is resistant

> to the first

> 4 antibiotic choices we would give to children. A strain that is

> not

> resistant to flouroquinolones (which is contraindicated in

> children) and is the only

> choice for oral therapy!!!

> And the more I read about all of this the more disturbed I was.

> I think

> there are a lot of things we don't know about the vaccines, the

> chemicals in

> them, and they have not been given adequate clinical trials. I

> think drug

> companies are influencing the CDC and the researchers who are

> working with them. So

> now I am trying to research as much as possible to give my

> patients the

> correct information and let them make an informed choice. Can

> you believe that no

> one at my clinic (including myself) even knew of the VAERS

> reporting

> system??!! Does that not completely outrage you when you think

> this is the data they

> are using to report safety?? I'm sure that my clinic is fairly

> representative

> of many rural clinics in America.

> So that is my sad story, which I hope for Charlotte's sake, may

> have a happy

> ending, at least in my small part of the world.

>

> Gayl

>

>

> In a message dated 9/14/2008 7:34:56 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

>

> _Casper3@..._ (mailto:Casper3@...) writes:

>

>

>

>

> So what was your " light bulb " moment? I was an

> obstetric/pediatric RN for

> 10 years, and it sickens me to think about all of the vaccines

> and drugs I

> administered, to my patients and to my own 2 children.

>

> It wasn't until our puppy had a reaction to vaccines almost 8

> years ago that

> I started researching about the dangers of vaccines. I was

> appalled with

> what I found.

>

> I'm just curious how you discovered the truth? I think it's

> awesome that

> you have!

>

> Kay in KY

>

> -----Original Message-----

>

> Since I got into this a few months ago I became outraged at how

> I have been

>

> misled when in everything else we're taught it's all about

> scientific

> principle and evidence based medicine. I'm even angrier at

> myself for

> falling right

> into that trap. I love giving drug reps a hard time. I am

> skeptical about

> most

> of what they present (except for lunch!). And yet I thought

> nothing of

> injecting chemicals into my patients, myself, and my own kids without

> really

> knowing what I was truly doing. Because someone told me that's

> what I was

> supposed

> to do. Ugh!!!!!

>

> G

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ************ ******** ************<WBR>**Psssst.<WBR>..Have you he

> fashion blog,

> plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

>

> (_http://www.stylelishttp://www.sthttp://www.stylehttp://ww_

(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) )

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,

plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

[Guest guest]

So what was your " light bulb " moment? I was an obstetric/pediatric RN for

10 years, and it sickens me to think about all of the vaccines and drugs I

administered, to my patients and to my own 2 children.

It wasn't until our puppy had a reaction to vaccines almost 8 years ago that

I started researching about the dangers of vaccines. I was appalled with

what I found.

I'm just curious how you discovered the truth? I think it's awesome that

you have!

Kay in KY

-----Original Message-----

Since I got into this a few months ago I became outraged at how I have been

misled when in everything else we're taught it's all about scientific

principle and evidence based medicine. I'm even angrier at myself for

falling right

into that trap. I love giving drug reps a hard time. I am skeptical about

most

of what they present (except for lunch!). And yet I thought nothing of

injecting chemicals into my patients, myself, and my own kids without

really

knowing what I was truly doing. Because someone told me that's what I was

supposed

to do. Ugh!!!!!

G

[Guest guest]

What a heartbreaking story. I'm so sorry that happened!

It sounds like Charlotte's death was not in vain though. How many more will

be spared injury or death because of what you are learning now as a result

of her death?

I think it's awesome that you are researching. I have a feeling there are

many other physicians who have an idea that things are not right with

vaccines but choose to keep their heads in the sand because for them the

truth is too much to face.

It's great to have you here!

Kay in KY

-----Original Message-----

Charlotte, a 10 month old patient of mine, who I delivered, died from strep

pneumo meningitis in May. I had recommended against Prevnar. For 3 weeks I

agonized over this decision. During that time I realized that although I

recommend against most of the newer vaccines (starting with chickenpox)

because I

didn't feel they were necessary and had a gut feeling that we are screwing

with our immune system on a global basis, I really didn't know WHY I was

recommending against them from the medical/scientific viewpoint. The fact

that this

baby who had never been sick before the ear infection that led to her

meningitis made me question my judgement. So I read and read and obsessed

over

adjuvants and escape strains. And then I got the path report that stated she

died

from the strain 23a, which developed a couple of years after routine

Prevnar

vaccines, and was not covered by it. A strain that is resistant to the

first

4 antibiotic choices we would give to children. A strain that is not

resistant to flouroquinolones (which is contraindicated in children) and is

the only

choice for oral therapy!!!

And the more I read about all of this the more disturbed I was. I think

there are a lot of things we don't know about the vaccines, the chemicals in

them, and they have not been given adequate clinical trials. I think drug

companies are influencing the CDC and the researchers who are working with

them. So

now I am trying to research as much as possible to give my patients the

correct information and let them make an informed choice. Can you believe

that no

one at my clinic (including myself) even knew of the VAERS reporting

system??!! Does that not completely outrage you when you think this is the

data they

are using to report safety?? I'm sure that my clinic is fairly

representative

of many rural clinics in America.

So that is my sad story, which I hope for Charlotte's sake, may have a

happy

ending, at least in my small part of the world.

Gayl

[Guest guest]

Poor little Charlotte. No doubt the vaccine wouldn't have worked then, having

the wrong strain (not that I believe they work anyway, but let's say they do).

If you had recommended the vaccine and she'd received it, you probably would

never have researched it afterwards to discover the info on the different

strains.

I'm curious (as a parent whose one child was plagued with ear infections after

an MMR, and of another unvaxed one who got ear infections after being given

antibiotics for an unrelated condition), did Charlotte have other ear

infections? Had she ever been vaccinated? How do you know the meningitis came

from the ear infection?

I ask because I now know that my first son's ear infections were actually

allergies, and both my boys had their immune systems messed up by the

antibiotics, resulting in more " ear infections " and respiratory illnesses. I

never once had any doc confirm the bacteria that was supposedly in my son's

ears, yet they prescribed many antibiotics based on red ear drums.

Winnie

Re: RE: Re: What training do docs get on vax?

Vaccinations

> Charlotte, a 10 month old patient of mine, who I delivered, died

> from strep

> pneumo meningitis in May. I had recommended against Prevnar. For

> 3 weeks I

> agonized over this decision. During that time I realized that

> although I

> recommend against most of the newer vaccines (starting with

> chickenpox) because I

> didn't feel they were necessary and had a gut feeling that we

> are screwing

> with our immune system on a global basis, I really didn't know

> WHY I was

> recommending against them from the medical/scientific viewpoint.

> The fact that this

> baby who had never been sick before the ear infection that led

> to her

> meningitis made me question my judgement. So I read and read and

> obsessed over

> adjuvants and escape strains. And then I got the path report

> that stated she died

> from the strain 23a, which developed a couple of years after

> routine Prevnar

> vaccines, and was not covered by it. A strain that is resistant

> to the first

> 4 antibiotic choices we would give to children. A strain that is

> not

> resistant to flouroquinolones (which is contraindicated in

> children) and is the only

> choice for oral therapy!!!

> And the more I read about all of this the more disturbed I was.

> I think

> there are a lot of things we don't know about the vaccines, the

> chemicals in

> them, and they have not been given adequate clinical trials. I

> think drug

> companies are influencing the CDC and the researchers who are

> working with them. So

> now I am trying to research as much as possible to give my

> patients the

> correct information and let them make an informed choice. Can

> you believe that no

> one at my clinic (including myself) even knew of the VAERS

> reporting

> system??!! Does that not completely outrage you when you think

> this is the data they

> are using to report safety?? I'm sure that my clinic is fairly

> representative

> of many rural clinics in America.

> So that is my sad story, which I hope for Charlotte's sake, may

> have a happy

> ending, at least in my small part of the world.

>

> Gayl

>

>

> In a message dated 9/14/2008 7:34:56 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

>

> Casper3@... writes:

>

>

>

>

> So what was your " light bulb " moment? I was an

> obstetric/pediatric RN for

> 10 years, and it sickens me to think about all of the vaccines

> and drugs I

> administered, to my patients and to my own 2 children.

>

> It wasn't until our puppy had a reaction to vaccines almost 8

> years ago that

> I started researching about the dangers of vaccines. I was

> appalled with

> what I found.

>

> I'm just curious how you discovered the truth? I think it's

> awesome that

> you have!

>

> Kay in KY

>

> -----Original Message-----

>

> Since I got into this a few months ago I became outraged at how

> I have been

>

> misled when in everything else we're taught it's all about

> scientific

> principle and evidence based medicine. I'm even angrier at

> myself for

> falling right

> into that trap. I love giving drug reps a hard time. I am

> skeptical about

> most

> of what they present (except for lunch!). And yet I thought

> nothing of

> injecting chemicals into my patients, myself, and my own kids without

> really

> knowing what I was truly doing. Because someone told me that's

> what I was

> supposed

> to do. Ugh!!!!!

>

> G

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new

> fashion blog,

> plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

>

> (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I quit using antibiotics for all ear infections, no matter how severe--use

homeopathy/Larix/no dairy, etc. instead. Good to hear a red eardrum isn't the

criteria for you!

So, couldn't it have been that the ear infection was just one of the symptoms of

the meningitis, one that you could see, rather than the cause of the meningitis?

Just trying to sort this out...

Winnie

Re: RE: Re: What training do docs get

> on vax?

> _Vaccinations@VaccinationsVac_

> (mailto:Vaccinations )

>

> > Charlotte, a 10 month old patient of mine, who I delivered,

> died

> > from strep

> > pneumo meningitis in May. I had recommended against Prevnar.

> For

> > 3 weeks I

> > agonized over this decision. During that time I realized that

> > although I

> > recommend against most of the newer vaccines (starting with

> > chickenpox) because I

> > didn't feel they were necessary and had a gut feeling that we

> > are screwing

> > with our immune system on a global basis, I really didn't know

>

> > WHY I was

> > recommending against them from the medical/scientific

> viewpoint.

> > The fact that this

> > baby who had never been sick before the ear infection that

> led

> > to her

> > meningitis made me question my judgement. So I read and read

> and

> > obsessed over

> > adjuvants and escape strains. And then I got the path report

> > that stated she died

> > from the strain 23a, which developed a couple of years after

> > routine Prevnar

> > vaccines, and was not covered by it. A strain that is

> resistant

> > to the first

> > 4 antibiotic choices we would give to children. A strain that

> is

> > not

> > resistant to flouroquinolones (which is contraindicated in

> > children) and is the only

> > choice for oral therapy!!!

> > And the more I read about all of this the more disturbed I

> was.

> > I think

> > there are a lot of things we don't know about the vaccines,

> the

> > chemicals in

> > them, and they have not been given adequate clinical trials.

> I

> > think drug

> > companies are influencing the CDC and the researchers who are

> > working with them. So

> > now I am trying to research as much as possible to give my

> > patients the

> > correct information and let them make an informed choice. Can

> > you believe that no

> > one at my clinic (including myself) even knew of the VAERS

> > reporting

> > system??!! Does that not completely outrage you when you

> think

> > this is the data they

> > are using to report safety?? I'm sure that my clinic is fairly

>

> > representative

> > of many rural clinics in America.

> > So that is my sad story, which I hope for Charlotte's sake,

> may

> > have a happy

> > ending, at least in my small part of the world.

> >

> > Gayl

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 9/14/2008 7:34:56 P.M. Central Daylight

> Time,

> >

> > _Casper3@..._ (mailto:Casper3@...) writes:

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > So what was your " light bulb " moment? I was an

> > obstetric/pediatric RN for

> > 10 years, and it sickens me to think about all of the

> vaccines

> > and drugs I

> > administered, to my patients and to my own 2 children.

> >

> > It wasn't until our puppy had a reaction to vaccines almost 8

> > years ago that

> > I started researching about the dangers of vaccines. I was

> > appalled with

> > what I found.

> >

> > I'm just curious how you discovered the truth? I think it's

> > awesome that

> > you have!

> >

> > Kay in KY

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> >

> > Since I got into this a few months ago I became outraged at

> how

> > I have been

> >

> > misled when in everything else we're taught it's all about

> > scientific

> > principle and evidence based medicine. I'm even angrier at

> > myself for

> > falling right

> > into that trap. I love giving drug reps a hard time. I am

> > skeptical about

> > most

> > of what they present (except for lunch!). And yet I thought

> > nothing of

> > injecting chemicals into my patients, myself, and my own kids

> without> really

> > knowing what I was truly doing. Because someone told me that's

>

> > what I was

> > supposed

> > to do. Ugh!!!!!

> >

> > G

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ************ ******** **************Psssst...Have

> you he

> > fashion blog,

> > plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

> >

> > (_http://www.stylelishttp://www.sthttp://www.stylehttp://ww_

> (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) )

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Curious again, was she breast fed?

Kay in KY

-----Original Message-----

Charlotte came in initially with an ear infection, very routine, bit of a

fever, fussy, etc. Continued to get worse over a period of days despite

switching to stronger antibiotics. She came back seizing and was flown to

the

regional pediatric intensive care facility. So pretty sure the ear infection

led to

the meningitis. She did have her other " routine " 2, 4,and 6 month

immunizations - Pediarix and Hib

And btw, I never prescribe antibiotics for red ear drums alone!!!! LOL

G

[Guest guest]

What a wonderful philosophy!

Kay in KY

-----Original Message-----

My philosophy is very simple......do what you know is the right thing to do

( and not let money, fame, or public opinion sway you from that path).

G

[Guest guest]

>

>Continued to get worse over a period of days despite

> switching to stronger antibiotics. She came back seizing and was

flown to the

> regional pediatric intensive care facility. So pretty sure the ear

infection led to

> the meningitis. She did have her other " routine " 2, 4,and 6 month

> immunizations - Pediarix and Hib

>

You mentioned that the little girl never had Prevnar shot but she did

have HIB shot which is supposetly against a bacteria that causes some

ear infections/meninigitis. Could ahve HIB vaccine displaced other

strains and cause the more virulent/rare form to take over and cause

death? This story really freaked me out. I am so afraid of meningitis

despite hearing " pathogens are nothing, terrain is everything " This

disease scares the hell out of me...

Katarina

[Guest guest]

Ok, my thought is that so many different types of bacteria are always

present in all people and when we get sick we just look for one and pin

the blame on that one. The way I see that it could have happened is

that she came in with an ear infection and the initial antibiotics made

her more ill, then perhaps the even stronger antibiotics made her even

more so.

I don't think antibiotics are as safe as people see them and perhaps,

just like with vaccines, there are many unreported and unknown severe

reactions to them.

> >

> >Continued to get worse over a period of days despite

> > switching to stronger antibiotics. She came back seizing and was

> flown to the

> > regional pediatric intensive care facility. So pretty sure the ear

> infection led to

> > the meningitis. She did have her other " routine " 2, 4,and 6 month

> > immunizations - Pediarix and Hib

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Have a look at these pictures of antibiotic over use! They are graphic so have a

bucket close!

http://www.sjsupport.org/htmldata/reactionphoto_1.html

From: Vida Khan <vidamarino@...>

Subject: Re: What training do docs get on vax?

Vaccinations

Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 9:12 PM

Ok, my thought is that so many different types of bacteria are always

present in all people and when we get sick we just look for one and pin

the blame on that one. The way I see that it could have happened is

that she came in with an ear infection and the initial antibiotics made

her more ill, then perhaps the even stronger antibiotics made her even

more so.

I don't think antibiotics are as safe as people see them and perhaps,

just like with vaccines, there are many unreported and unknown severe

reactions to them.

> >

> >Continued to get worse over a period of days despite

> > switching to stronger antibiotics. She came back seizing and was

> flown to the

> > regional pediatric intensive care facility. So pretty sure the ear

> infection led to

> > the meningitis. She did have her other " routine " 2, 4,and 6 month

> > immunizations - Pediarix and Hib

> >

>