Re: measles stats.

[Guest guest]

That sounds about right--mid-1960's. I can't see any date at the nvic site, but

check out the info there: http://www.909shot.com/Diseases/mmr.htm

Winnie

measles stats.

Jim O'

> From the book, " THE BOOK OF HEALTH " written by Randolph Lee

> ., B.S.., M.D., M.Sc. and W. Cumley, B.A., M.A..,

> Ph.D 1953

>

> Deaths due to measles. " While in 1900 over one person in

> 10,000 died of measles each year, this rate has now dropped so

> that there is less than one death per 100,000. "

>

> The graph shows from 1900 to 1948. When did the measles vaccine

> come out 1963 or thereabouts?

>

> Jim

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

68 in uk http://whale.to/m/measlesdeaths1.html

measles stats.

From the book, " THE BOOK OF HEALTH " written by Randolph Lee ., B.S..,

M.D., M.Sc. and W. Cumley, B.A., M.A.., Ph.D 1953

Deaths due to measles. " While in 1900 over one person in 10,000 died of

measles each year, this rate has now dropped so that there is less than one

death per 100,000. "

The graph shows from 1900 to 1948. When did the measles vaccine come out 1963

or thereabouts?

Jim

[Guest guest]

Neither I nor my brother and sister or any of the neighborhood kids had

the measles. I was a kid in the 1940s.    I took my own survey with people in my

age bracket about

3 or 4 months ago. When I ask them, at first most said yes. Upon questioning

them , like how old, what did your parents do etc. Then it turned out only one

was sure she had measles. All were sure they had chicken pox. I ask the question

on this list and it seems to me the folks who were kids in the 50s and 60s said

they didn't have measles,

and the ones who were young said they did. Not sure how accurate my memory is

about the responses of this list.

My personal opinion on vaccines is they all work or none of them work. Vaccines

are all based on the same principle. Put poison in the body. Hope the body will

develop antibodies, antibodies will get the nasty bug, should it decide to cross

in to your personal space. At best this foolishness is just a test. A test of

provoking antibodies. What if the child fails the test?   The worst thing that

can happen is the child dies. Other than that a host of different problems or if

a body is lucky nothing bad will happen. On the other hand if nothing bad

happens no one can prove that a body is protected from a disease. I ran a story

in the newspaper. I said I would pay $2,000.oo to any member of the enstein

organization ( that's my new term for the Allopaths) who could prove a vaccine

will prevent a disease. That was over a year ago. I had one member of the F.O.

who challenged me and ended up admitting it could not be proven, but he said

there were

studies. I told him all his studies would make for good toilet paper.

If I sound like I am anti vaccine, I am that's why I am on this list. I and 40

million kids back in the good old days never had our blood poisoned with the

possible exception of the Small-pox poison. My five grandchildren as well as my

son still have virgin blood.

I am sorry to say all this good decision making came from the bad decision to

poison my daughter with the small-pox poison. Just curious have you read Dr.

Mendelsohn's book. " How to raise a healthy child...in spite of your doctor? He

was a long time ped. And he cares about what vaccines are put in your child's

blood. If I remember correctly, his chapter on vaccines opens with this

statement. " The greatest threat of childhood diseases lies in the dangerous and

ineffectual efforts made to prevent them through mass immunization. " Just a

suggestion, you may want to get a copy and sit down with your member. to see

what he/she thinks. The book was written in 1984 and some well brainwashed

person said they wouldn' read it because it was old. My personal opinion is that

no matter how old the truth is, it can't be improved on. Good luck and may you

make a truly informed decision, because your baby's life depends on you, and

that's the way it should be, it is not

your members decision and if you or he tells you to vaccinate and you do he's

off the hook, but you may  live with that decison the rest of your life. If I

sound like I am putting the responsibility on your shoulders, I am. I wish I had

someone like me or some on this list trying to inform me 30 some years ago. Good

luck and I sincerely hope you don't need it.

Jim O'

Founder of S.I.N.B.A.D

Shots in body's are dangerous,

and drugs(meds) too.

________________________________

From: Ayako Kato <ayako.kato@...>

Vaccinations

Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 10:33:56 PM

Subject: Re: measles stats.

> When did the measles vaccine come out 1963 or thereabouts?

This site says it became available in 1962.

http://www.lewrockw ell.com/miller/ miller15. html

I am curious about this because measles vaccine is one of the shots our

pediatrician is really pushing for. (The other one is Hib. She doesn't care so

much about mumps or chickenpox)

When I was growing up, it was something every kid got and got over with. I'm

perplexed that doctors nowadays are making it so much of a threat.

[Guest guest]

I am actually from this part of cheshire, but don't live there now.

Here is a local newspaper report

_http://www.crewechronicle.co.uk/crewe-news/local-crewe-news/2008/10/29/south-

cheshire-measles-outbreak-worsens-96135-22147277/_

(http://www.crewechronicle.co.uk/crewe-news/local-crewe-news/2008/10/29/south-ch\

eshire-measles-outbreak-w

orsens-96135-22147277/)

It says only one needed hospital treatment and has since recovered, thats

out of 15 cases, maybe thats where they are pulling this new figure from.

[Guest guest]

Pediatricians all have their favorite shots to push. One of mine was for the

polio vaccine because he was a lot older and polio was in the news when he was

growing up. Therefore, he fell for the media influence. Another one insists that

without the Hib, your child is at great risk.

It seems as if your ped is falling for the recent hype over measles. Too bad.

She's supposed to be a scientist and healer, not a purveyor of false

advertisement.

Remember, a vaccine should be necessary, safe and effective. If it's not all of

those, there's no reason to get them.

Winnie

Re: measles stats.

Vaccinations

> > When did the measles vaccine come out 1963 or thereabouts?

>

>

> This site says it became available in 1962.

> http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller15.html

>

> I am curious about this because measles vaccine is one of the

> shots our pediatrician is really pushing for. (The other one is

> Hib. She doesn't care so much about mumps or chickenpox)

>

> When I was growing up, it was something every kid got and got

> over with. I'm perplexed that doctors nowadays are making it so

> much of a threat.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

First, if your doctor is exaggerating the severity of diseases in order to get

you to vaccinate, and you want her to stop telling you these stories, then you

need to rethink why you're going to someone who has such a different viewpoint

over your child's health care.

Second, I don't get why you're worried about your child being brain-damaged from

measles when you just said it was something every kid got and got over with when

you were growing up. It can't be no big deal and life-threatening at the same

time.

Last, unless the vaccine works, it doesn't matter if the disease is

life-threatening. What makes you think the measles vaccine works?

Winnie

Re: measles stats.

Vaccinations

> > Neither I nor my brother and sister or any of the neighborhood

> kids had

> the measles. I was a kid in the 1940s.

>

> I grew up in early 70s and outside of the US, so my experience

> is different

>

> My mother has records that indicate I got Measles (not the

> vaccine, but the actual illness) at 4, Mumps at 5, Chickenpox at

> 5, but nothing indicates I ever had Rubella, which apparently I

> missed out on. Those were indeed " routine " illnesses before the

> vaccines came.

>

> My point is that my doctor is (while genuinely concerned about

> the well being of her patients) making some of the diseases

> sound a lot scarier than I think they actually are. I feel

> terrorized by the thoughts of my child suffering the disease and

> subsequent brain damage this particular vaccine (whether it's

> Hib or measles) could have prevented. I have an issue with this,

> since it skews my decision making based on risks and benefits -

> I don't want to be influenced by a disproportionate fear.

>

> For example, she keeps saying that " the first anti-vaccine

> activist lost her child due to meningitis which a vaccine could

> have prevented " ... has anyone heard this and does anyone know

> this to be true? Where can I find more about this so I can

> (politely) tell her to stop telling me this story?

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

See, the thing is I don't know if she's exaggerating ... When I was growing up,

everyone got them, my mom treated them as " routine " diseases, but that's just my

experience. Maybe some kids did die and I just don't know about them. Therefore,

statistics are really important for me.

> you need to rethink why you're going to someone who has such a different

viewpoint over your child's health care.

Yup! Seriously, I am considering getting my kid a homeopath instead. 6 months

ago I didn't even know what that occupation was. However I want to maintain a

relationship with a regular doctor for my kid, just in case we need one for an

emergency. (The doctor we have now is a huge imrovement over the one we had

before - we had to leave the previous practice, because they were pretty much

" our way or the highway " when it came to vaccines.)

So this anti-vaccine lady who lost her child is a myth? Something like this is

hard to google

[Guest guest]

I understand the need to have the statistics to sort out whether the doc is

exaggerating (she may also just be expressing HER fears, not purposely trying to

mislead you). However, keep in mind who collects and who interprets those

statistics. When the CDC itself lies by claiming that there are 36,000 flu

deaths a year (with every health agency, doctor, and the media repeats it as if

it's true) when, in fact, those are combined with some 35,000 plus pneumonia

deaths to pump up the statistics in order to get people to buy flu shots, then

how can you believe anything they say? Whom can you trust to give the facts?

It's a tough situation to be in as a new parent, but I think it puts it back on

you to use your common sense. You cannot depend on government and corporate

propaganda when deciding what is good for your children. Keep your children

healthy by keeping toxic substances out of them no matter how hard someone who

makes money off it tells you that you need them, and nurse you child through

whatever illnesses they get--and they will get some.

I also keep a traditional MD on hand so I understand why you are, too. Good for

you to be exploring different ways. It's very scary entering new territory when

it's your child's health at stake. You will really be tested when your child has

a raging fever in the middle of the night and you're scared out of your wits

that you've taken the wrong path. Always trust your instincts at those times.

I don't know anything about this anti-vaccine lady. If that's all the ped is

depending on for her info on anti-vaccine info, she's not looking too hard. I

would let it go and not try to counter every piece of nonsense they come up

with. It's tempting but way too time consuming.

Winnie

Re: measles stats.

Vaccinations

> See, the thing is I don't know if she's exaggerating ... When I

> was growing up, everyone got them, my mom treated them as

> " routine " diseases, but that's just my experience. Maybe some

> kids did die and I just don't know about them. Therefore,

> statistics are really important for me.

>

> > you need to rethink why you're going to someone who has such a

> different viewpoint over your child's health care.

>

> Yup! Seriously, I am considering getting my kid a homeopath

> instead. 6 months ago I didn't even know what that occupation

> was. However I want to maintain a relationship with a regular

> doctor for my kid, just in case we need one for an emergency.

> (The doctor we have now is a huge imrovement over the one we had

> before - we had to leave the previous practice, because they

> were pretty much " our way or the highway " when it came to

> vaccines.)

>

> So this anti-vaccine lady who lost her child is a myth?

> Something like this is hard to google

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ask your doctor to provide you with the actual source about the anti-vaccinator.

Where did she get the info. Is this something someone told her. Press for facts.

My bet is she/he won't have any.

These people are salespeople, they have a product and sales pitch to sell. Like

most salesman they make things up.

Do not be afraid to question them. I learned a long time ago if you ask a

question, and they act like your stupid, or become impatient or get angry, then

there just trying to hide the fact that they don't really know what they are

talking about and are trying to convince you that you should do what they say. I

have personally found this to be true of the enstein Undertakers. That's my

new name for the Allopaths. In the future I will just abbreviate to the F.U.

group. That name implies the doctors who bury their mistakes and non-mistakes.

Jim O'

Founder of S.I..N.B.A.D.

Shots in bodys are dangerous

and drugs(med)too

________________________________

From: " wharrison@... " <wharrison@...>

Vaccinations

Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 8:36:57 AM

Subject: Re: measles stats.

First, if your doctor is exaggerating the severity of diseases in order to get

you to vaccinate, and you want her to stop telling you these stories, then you

need to rethink why you're going to someone who has such a different viewpoint

over your child's health care.

Second, I don't get why you're worried about your child being brain-damaged from

measles when you just said it was something every kid got and got over with when

you were growing up. It can't be no big deal and life-threatening at the same

time.

Last, unless the vaccine works, it doesn't matter if the disease is

life-threatening. What makes you think the measles vaccine works?

Winnie

Re: measles stats.

Vaccinations

> > Neither I nor my brother and sister or any of the neighborhood

> kids had

> the measles. I was a kid in the 1940s.

>

> I grew up in early 70s and outside of the US, so my experience

> is different

>

> My mother has records that indicate I got Measles (not the

> vaccine, but the actual illness) at 4, Mumps at 5, Chickenpox at

> 5, but nothing indicates I ever had Rubella, which apparently I

> missed out on. Those were indeed " routine " illnesses before the

> vaccines came.

>

> My point is that my doctor is (while genuinely concerned about

> the well being of her patients) making some of the diseases

> sound a lot scarier than I think they actually are. I feel

> terrorized by the thoughts of my child suffering the disease and

> subsequent brain damage this particular vaccine (whether it's

> Hib or measles) could have prevented. I have an issue with this,

> since it skews my decision making based on risks and benefits -

> I don't want to be influenced by a disproportionate fear.

>

> For example, she keeps saying that " the first anti-vaccine

> activist lost her child due to meningitis which a vaccine could

> have prevented " ... has anyone heard this and does anyone know

> this to be true? Where can I find more about this so I can

> (politely) tell her to stop telling me this story?

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

exactly Jim

" No one is more arrogant toward women, more aggressive or scornful, than the

man who is anxious about his virility. " ---Simone de Beauvoir

Arrogance is used to stop anyone (e.g. parents & medical students) asking

the wrong questions, and for daring to question medical authority. Works

well if you can get away with it. To paraphrase Simone de Beauvoir, no

doctor is more arrogant towards his patients than one who is anxious about

his medicine/knowledge.

Re: measles stats.

Vaccinations

> > Neither I nor my brother and sister or any of the neighborhood

> kids had

> the measles. I was a kid in the 1940s.

>

> I grew up in early 70s and outside of the US, so my experience

> is different

>

> My mother has records that indicate I got Measles (not the

> vaccine, but the actual illness) at 4, Mumps at 5, Chickenpox at

> 5, but nothing indicates I ever had Rubella, which apparently I

> missed out on. Those were indeed " routine " illnesses before the

> vaccines came.

>

> My point is that my doctor is (while genuinely concerned about

> the well being of her patients) making some of the diseases

> sound a lot scarier than I think they actually are. I feel

> terrorized by the thoughts of my child suffering the disease and

> subsequent brain damage this particular vaccine (whether it's

> Hib or measles) could have prevented. I have an issue with this,

> since it skews my decision making based on risks and benefits -

> I don't want to be influenced by a disproportionate fear.

>

> For example, she keeps saying that " the first anti-vaccine

> activist lost her child due to meningitis which a vaccine could

> have prevented " ... has anyone heard this and does anyone know

> this to be true? Where can I find more about this so I can

> (politely) tell her to stop telling me this story?

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Good advice, Jim. Let them do the legwork and provide the proof. And if she were

to come up with something about this anti-vaccine woman, ask if she considers

that scientific proof that all vaccines are safe and effective for all children

at all times.

Winnie

Re: measles stats.

> Vaccinations

>

> > > Neither I nor my brother and sister or any of the

> neighborhood

> > kids had

> > the measles. I was a kid in the 1940s.

> >

> > I grew up in early 70s and outside of the US, so my experience

> > is different

> >

> > My mother has records that indicate I got Measles (not the

> > vaccine, but the actual illness) at 4, Mumps at 5, Chickenpox

> at

> > 5, but nothing indicates I ever had Rubella, which apparently

> I

> > missed out on. Those were indeed " routine " illnesses before

> the

> > vaccines came.

> >

> > My point is that my doctor is (while genuinely concerned about

> > the well being of her patients) making some of the diseases

> > sound a lot scarier than I think they actually are. I feel

> > terrorized by the thoughts of my child suffering the disease

> and

> > subsequent brain damage this particular vaccine (whether it's

> > Hib or measles) could have prevented. I have an issue with

> this,

> > since it skews my decision making based on risks and benefits -

>

> > I don't want to be influenced by a disproportionate fear.

> >

> > For example, she keeps saying that " the first anti-vaccine

> > activist lost her child due to meningitis which a vaccine

> could

> > have prevented " ... has anyone heard this and does anyone know

> > this to be true? Where can I find more about this so I can

> > (politely) tell her to stop telling me this story?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >