Re: Re: Jim's passion was Re: Amy

November 29, 2008

Oh geez, lol...what kind of drama did I start??? No way Jim, I am not

mad....I am way more tough skinned than that. AS hard as you come at me to not

use any type of drugs, people come at me the same way TO vaccinate and to use

drugs...so people like me get if from every direction!!! You have to

understand its all a lot to swallow, no meds at all. I love my kids dearly and

want

whats best for them, so...I am trying to figure it all out. I can read read

read info on pro meds and anti meds and I just feel so torn. And it is so

nerve wracking to see your kid sitting there like River was with this

pneumonia with way high fevers, not eating and practically lifeless. I made the

only

decision I could live with by taking him to the dr and giving him meds to

" make him better " at the time. I am NOT one to run to the pediatrician. My

son

went to his 2 week visit, once when his elbow was out of socket and he was

screaming in pain and wouldn't move his arm, once last winter for his ear

infection, and then this week for his pneumonia...so 4 times in almost 3 years.

My other kids have only been a few times as well. I mean, I am the only

person I know that doesn't vax- my own aunt told me my kids could die b/c of my

decision, and so have several other people. So, I usually dont talk about not

vaxxing unless I am asked about it. Does it scare me still, totally, but

not more than it would to watch a dr inject them with a poisonous vaccine. But

gosh, you were a little harsh...I mean, I would never vaccinate them...that

is a good start! I know you are passionate about using no drugs. I have my

passions, so I understand you wanting to encourage people to see things your

way....one of mine being breastfeeding. I have a friend that wouldn't even

try it, went directly to bottles. I sent all the pro breastfeeding info I

had- all she could say was its not for me...so what can you do- I certainly

didn't harshly criticize her even though I think its the most selfish decision

on Earth. Anyway, I am a stay at home mom now (lost my job in Sept after

having my 3rd baby) so we cant really afford a homeopathic dr, not even sure if

there is one around here. I guess I am just trying to do the best I can,

educate myself and make the decision that I can live with. I will never be

completely anti drug, just not what I believe in, trust me I wish my kids never

got sick to the point like I felt like it was my only resort, but I only use

them when all else fails, sorry if that is how I believe. But no, I am not

mad.

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November 29, 2008

Arlynn

If I were in your position and lived your life I would feel the same way. But

I'm not and

my experiences were a bit different then yours so I have a different take then

people

who have not had to deal head on with the issue of cause and effect of serious

sickness with the enstein organization(that's my new name for the Allopaths

named after Dr. enstein who in the movie brought the dead to life, which a

virus is the reincarnation of Dr. enstein non-sense.)

Any way now that I know your chief complaint, let me address it. My point is

simply this. A person with a sickness or a sick child should seek the council of

someone who has spent years in dealing in health or disease and would be

considered a so-called expert. My definition of an expert is someone who knows a

lot more then me but not everything there is to know. With all due respect their

is no one on this list or in this world who can PROVE the cause of sickness or

health. Its all a theory.That's why I try to quote from a book or recommend

books rather than me telling someone what to do. As a mother I am sure you will

agree that you know more about your child's habits and health than anybody

else.So does this person. This person's child was three, that means she was

consulting with some kind of a doctor for at least three years. What I was

trying to say to her was this is not the place to get advice on what to do when

your child is sick. The time to

get advice and learn is when your child is not sick. I too went through all my

experiences by my self with out the aid of the computer and when I turned

against the enstein organization there was no one to get even support from.

Now if Amy is mad at me and does nothing to really educate herself then my

message was wasted, but if she got mad at me and ran down to the drug store and

at least bought the PDR book then my time was well spent. This may sound old

fashion, but I think everyone needs a soft kick every now and then to motivate

them to action. And when a child's health is at stake, I would rather not

intentionally hurt mom or dads feelings, but that would be preferable then the

child being physically or mentally hurt because of our ignorance of which I

certainly was guilty of as a young man. I learned the hard way. I'm hoping that

those on this list won't. This is my biggest problem. There isn't a day that

goes by, I'm not preaching to

people about drugs and on a lessor scale fasting, when they are well. When one

of my friends have abused their health and are taking drugs or having their

vital organs cut out, which everybody I know falls into that category, I stop

preaching. Why, because if I tell them to change their belief patterns and they

do and something happens to them, I would feel guilty as hell, even If I knew my

advice didn;t cause the problem. Its tough to deal with mindset or beliefs, look

at all the people who take and believe in drugs and vaccines. I have known

people who learned about vaccines and told their friends vax is bad don't do it.

The person said OK I won't and the baby got sick. When the doctor got through

with her she felt like she was a baby killer. This is why people have to educate

them self and take responsibility and be their own doctor. Arlynn I appreciate

your response and I certainly hold no hard feelings and totally believe in the

first amendment, so

as someone once said lets agree to disagree in an agreeable manner, because the

bottom line is we all need each other to win this battle.

And Amy if I made you mad or hurt your feelings, my motivation was to motivate

you to take the bull by the horns, so if you want to tell me off, feel free to

do so. You can write me off list if you want. However if I pissed you off and

you become determined to get in the front lines then I will expect a letter of

thanks.

Every one have a Jim Dandy day

Jim

________________________________

From: Arlynn Liebster <abfab@...>

Vaccinations

Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 4:39:57 PM

Subject: Re: Jim's passion was Re: Amy

Jim: I love your posts and I am not the one in need of them. It would

be preaching to the choir. <g> I had no issue with anything you said

in your whole post about drugs, I agree 100%! I just think that

telling a mom who just asked for help (I can't even remember the OP)

to go buy a book at the HFS b/c this is a novax topic list, that was

wrong imo and silencing to other mothers who would like to ask

questions. I see all of everyone's points about posters searching

archives and I do understand, etc... I don't think people always

realize how draining it is to be a new mother with no sleep. My kids

are 5yo, healthy, non-vaxed, organic, homeschooled, intellectually

gifted and generally amazing by all accounts. I have no issues with my

family's health. I don't need to be here for myself, I'm already

" there " LOL and have been for 4 decades. I am here to help the

exhausted, beaten down, tired masses of mothers who get no help in

their newfound information regarding allopathic medicine. For someone

as knowledgeable as you, Jim, to tell a mom to go buy a book (I

personally have 6 bookcases filled with them, I certainly agree that

books are wonderful to get information when it isn't time critical), I

think that tells the mom to not speak on list and that is alienating

to the very mothers who NEED support right now. Kudos to ME, kudos to

others who didn't vax just on our own hunch of what is healthful and

who have the strength to stand up to the allopathic medical system

alone. Hey, I did it. I did it all by myself. No internet (had no idea

others didn't vax, had no idea 5 years ago there was such a thing as a

listserv). But for sure, " take the discussion somewhere else " is not

helpful when your kid has a fever *tonight*. I really really don't

want to make a stink of this. It is arguing with people I respect and

care about and appreciate. I appreciate Jim and Winnie and Maracuja

and all the other people who post their knowledge and especially

Sherri. I'm off to be with my family and be thankful that I have non-

vaccine-damaged children that eat organically, live in a non-toxic

home, recycle and never need an allopath. With all that's happening in

today's world, we are VERY VERY blessed and I count those blessings

each and every day. I did not intend to and am very sorry and

apologize if I hurt someone's feelings by openly saying how I felt a

mother could feel by reading " go buy a book " instead of asking

questions on list. :-) Jim, everyone else, your posts are invaluable

and I am sure you know it. It was just that one little blurb I was

pointing out. Nothing more. And as of now, I've forgotten all about

it. )) -Arlynn

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November 30, 2008

I have been there and done that-many times over. In the 70s when I decided not

to vax my son. The whole world was against me. Even my wife was neutral.. This

was the day when the F.O. enstein (Allopaths) swore up and down that food

had nothing to do with illness. I wasn't coming on you not to use drugs. I was

suggesting you get a copy of the PDR. Every one on this lists that doesn't

vaccinate their kids gets static from someone. We have to keep in mind our

children should depend on us for their health not the member of the F.O. My

passion about not using drugs does not come from my feelings. Quite frankly it

comes from reading the medical books. Amy all I do is throw my beliefs out

there. I don't expect anyone to do what I say. Its up to each individual to make

up their own mind. Try to keep in mind when you ask for advice on this list your

going to get different and opposite opinions. Try not to take it personal. I

didn't really thing I was being

harsh. My idea of being harsh is when I took on a member of the F.O. a few

months ago and a biologist. Maybe you can archive that post and compare. As far

as drama goes I don't think you started any. I think its good for people to

express their views about what they really feel. Its like cleaning house.

I too have a friend who had a baby just two years ago. Can you believe he was 55

and his wife was 39. Anyway I talked myself blue in the face, I gave them Dr.

Tenpenny's DVD. They vaxed. All you can do is all you can do.

Anyway I am glad you are not mad and have every confidence you are on the right

tract and will be fine.

Jim

________________________________

From: " Algaveda@... " <Algaveda@...>

Vaccinations

Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 9:03:11 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Jim's passion was Re: Amy

Oh geez, lol....what kind of drama did I start??? No way Jim, I am not

mad....I am way more tough skinned than that. AS hard as you come at me to not

use any type of drugs, people come at me the same way TO vaccinate and to use

drugs...so people like me get if from every direction!!! You have to

understand its all a lot to swallow, no meds at all. I love my kids dearly and

want

whats best for them, so...I am trying to figure it all out. I can read read

read info on pro meds and anti meds and I just feel so torn. And it is so

nerve wracking to see your kid sitting there like River was with this

pneumonia with way high fevers, not eating and practically lifeless. I made the

only

decision I could live with by taking him to the dr and giving him meds to

" make him better " at the time. I am NOT one to run to the pediatrician. My son

went to his 2 week visit, once when his elbow was out of socket and he was

screaming in pain and wouldn't move his arm, once last winter for his ear

infection, and then this week for his pneumonia... so 4 times in almost 3 years.