Re: new to group and so confused

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/15/2008 1:04:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

oceanfalcon@... writes:

Anyways...I wonder if others

are confused too, I wish I could be so steadfast in my opinion as

many of you are, whose posts I have been reading, I really admire you

When I first started researching, I was very overwhelmed. Just take it one

step at a time. This group is a great resource, as you have found out. I am

now 100% sure vaxes are bad, and I have not vaccinated my 2 1/2 year old

daughter at all. I applaud you for opening up your mind to the truth that

vaccines are ineffective and dangerous. don't beat yourself up over what has

happened in the past, just learn from it and move on. Welcome to the group!

Holly

**************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and

favorite sites in one place. Try it now.

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[Guest guest]

Hi, . I don't think you're confused. I think you're wising up to the

truth. It's a process you go through, which feels like confusion while you're

sorting out the facts. One only becomes steadfast over time, when you see with

your own eyes that your children survived just fine without vaccines.

You ARE lucky that your children haven't had any visible reactions thus far. But

that doesn't mean they're out of the woods. Many of my peers have died of

cancer. It didn't rear its ugly face until they were adults. We were all given

the cancer-causing polio vaccines when we were little, back when few vaccines

were given (1950's).

I also vaccinated my older two when they were toddlers. I still worry they will

develop cancers from the oral polio vaccines they received, or have other

problems as they get into adulthood. It's beyond my control at this point

because I can't suck those vaccines back out of them. What's worse is it was for

nothing because vaccines don't work.

While you're making your decisions about vaccines, and feeling pressure from

those around you to do them, keep in mind they are parroting what they've heard.

That doesn't make it true. When listening to those of us who are against

vaccines, ask yourself what we have to gain from telling you to beware. Then go

with your instincts and your common sense.

Winnie

new to group and so confused

Vaccinations

> Hi, my name is and I am the mother of a 7, 5, and 2 year

> old.

> My first child I completely vaccinated following the vaccination

> schedule. My second I had all his shots up to two years and my

> third

> had her 2mo, 4mo, and 6mo shots and then I stopped. I started

> reading

> about vaccinations and got scared. A year or so later I came

> across

> Dr. Sears book and he suggested vaccinating two shots at a time

> and

> only with one shot that has aluminum and you try to get the

> brand

> with the lowest aluminum. I come from a very pro vaccine town,

> so

> many were making me doubt my decision. When my daughter turned

> two, I

> took her in and she had two shots. I had decided to forgo the

> mmr and

> varicella until she was over the age of 4, by now, she is caught

> up,

> except for those last two and her 2 hep A. My middle son was due

> for

> his first hep A today, which I cancelled because I came across

> this

> site, through reading Dr. Mercola's site. Once again I am so confused!

> I am lucky that my kids never reacted to the vaccines, no

> fevers, no

> crying spells, only a litle bump at the vaccination spot but

> when I

> started vaccinating again I began giving them some homeopathic

> remedies..Ledum Pal before shot and after and thuja after the

> shot..from that time forward they never got a bump after being

> vaccinated...also I boosted their immune system before and after

> with

> extra vit. C and a really good liquid multi...so I was feeling

> good

> until now. Now I feel like why did I start again but it is so

> hard

> when everyone around you touts how good vaccines are. Like I

> mentioned, I cancelled my son's shot appointment for today and I

> think that since I have doubts I should err on the side of

> caution

> and that's that. My kids luckily are super healthy we eat as

> much

> organic as we can, I don't use antibiotics or over the counter

> stuff

> unless absolutely necessary, which is usually never...it

> sometimes is

> hard though with my father in law being a pharmacist but I've

> kind of

> gotten him over to the homeopath side. Anyways...I wonder if

> others

> are confused too, I wish I could be so steadfast in my opinion

> as

> many of you are, whose posts I have been reading, I really

> admire you.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You have gotten some excellent responses already - I won't parrot them.

I had my son at home, so I didn't really have to make a decision to

vax/not to vax right away. I took my time recovering and breastfeeding

my son. My attitude at that point was " I won't vax until I've

researched and feel confident. " Needless to say, it never happened. I

told my ped (who's non-vax friendly) that I was postponing until

was 1. And I researched. turned 1 and honestly the ped never asked

again. It eventually came up and I said I wasn't vaccinating. is

now 4 and I'm growing more confident every day that vaxxing is harmful.

I am more terrified of the unpredictable effect the vax can have on my

child than I am of actually getting sick. I have contact with both

a naturopath and a homeopath and so far they've been able to help me

with everything has gotten (which has been a few colds and a minor

ear infection). I am no longer in fear of doctors. Truth and knowledge

really do set you free.

Welcome,

Magda

[Guest guest]

Pretty tricky with a pharmacist as a father in law, but I know an ex one who is

a natural hygienist/naturopath now, a heretic

my last 2, of 5, are 100% unvaccinated, now 14 and 12. Unvaccinated kids are

healthier http://whale.to/a/children1.html as vaccines are the main cause of

autism, cot death, eczema, asthma, juvenile arthritis and diabetes. The so

called vaccine diseases mostly died out before vaccination, there is no proof

vaccination did anything.

Vaccination is dangerous and ineffective http://whale.to/vaccines.html

Anyone touting vaccination is ignorant and/or deriving some benefit from the

status quo, eg an MD or pharmacist

Doubt if there are any still confused on this list!

Keep reading and you wont be for long either

Dr Sears--ignore him, one of those half way house docs who is never going to

face the real truth

Read some who have more balls eg http://whale.to/w/donegan1.html

http://whale.to/a/blaylock_h.html http://whale.to/v/mendelsohn.html

john

new to group and so confused

Hi, my name is and I am the mother of a 7, 5, and 2 year old.

My first child I completely vaccinated following the vaccination

schedule. My second I had all his shots up to two years and my third

had her 2mo, 4mo, and 6mo shots and then I stopped. I started reading

about vaccinations and got scared. A year or so later I came across

Dr. Sears book and he suggested vaccinating two shots at a time and

only with one shot that has aluminum and you try to get the brand

with the lowest aluminum. I come from a very pro vaccine town, so

many were making me doubt my decision. When my daughter turned two, I

took her in and she had two shots. I had decided to forgo the mmr and

varicella until she was over the age of 4, by now, she is caught up,

except for those last two and her 2 hep A. My middle son was due for

his first hep A today, which I cancelled because I came across this

site, through reading Dr. Mercola's site. Once again I am so confused!

I am lucky that my kids never reacted to the vaccines, no fevers, no

crying spells, only a litle bump at the vaccination spot but when I

started vaccinating again I began giving them some homeopathic

remedies..Ledum Pal before shot and after and thuja after the

shot..from that time forward they never got a bump after being

vaccinated...also I boosted their immune system before and after with

extra vit. C and a really good liquid multi...so I was feeling good

until now. Now I feel like why did I start again but it is so hard

when everyone around you touts how good vaccines are. Like I

mentioned, I cancelled my son's shot appointment for today and I

think that since I have doubts I should err on the side of caution

and that's that. My kids luckily are super healthy we eat as much

organic as we can, I don't use antibiotics or over the counter stuff

unless absolutely necessary, which is usually never...it sometimes is

hard though with my father in law being a pharmacist but I've kind of

gotten him over to the homeopath side. Anyways...I wonder if others

are confused too, I wish I could be so steadfast in my opinion as

many of you are, whose posts I have been reading, I really admire you.

[Guest guest]

Dear Ayako,

thanks for sharing your story with us. I think one of the amazing things about

this forum is simply that this is an environment where people will give you

opinions, advice and tips without biting your head off (well i think so

What really disturbs me about your story, as well as many others' stories, is

the concept that we dont question becasue we automatically assume (and why

should we not?) that the doctors know what they're doing? They're the ones that

spent years in med school - not me. They're the ones that keep updating their

knowledge with the latest research - not me. And finally, they're the ones who

have the weight of the world on their shoulders being the ones that have the

power to heal (or G-d forbid destroy) another human life.

Thats what really pisses me off - when we as " normal " pedestrians have to become

the authority on the matter, when we cant trust the people who should know.

thanks again for sharing with us -

good luck with your research !!

Deb

Need a good laugh ?

DubyLitvin.blogspot.com

________________________________

From: Ayako Kato <ayako.kato@...>

Vaccinations

Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 10:40:53 PM

Subject: Re: new to group and so confused

I so know what you mean . I am there, being overwhelmed and confused..

I'm old (almost 40) and didn't have to get gazillion shots as a kid. I just got

routine ones like DTP, Polio and GCB as I was growing up. MMR didn't exist and

neither did Chickenpox vaccine. Never heard of anyone who was injured by

vaccines.

So, while I was pregnant in 07, I did come across some books etc., mentioning

" vaccine controversy " and I was like " Controversy? Why would anyone NOT

vaccinate their kids? " I got my flu shot in my thrid trimester. Shows you how

ignorant I was. Then ...

-> I had my first child in Feb 08, all was good until I took her to her 2 months

visit. She got 4 shots and an oral on one day. I thought " wow that's kinda

agressive " but assumed the doctor must know what she's doing, so I didn't

question it

-> Immediately after that, my then 2-month old slept for 3 hours (which was an

unusually long nap for her) and then woke up SCREAMING. She did not stop for an

hour and half. I called the doctor and was told to give her tylenol. At that

moment I thought " Tylenol? Isn't that a pain killer? This doesn't sit very well

with me at all " ... it seemed wrong to give an OTC drug to such a young infant.

I did anyway, because I didn't know what else to do.

-> That's when I started reading ... I got the Dr. Sears's book. I decided to

pace out the shots. At this point I was giving one shot at a time and completed

the 4-month doses, only it took a few months longer. By doing this, I

antagonized the doctor and nurses and ended up leaving one pediatric office for

another.

-> I joined this mail group, desperate for a practical advice on how to get an

exemption. By this point I KNEW I didn't want some of the shots. I jumped right

into the subject of exemption, trying to find out what other people are doing

(Surely there must be people who don't fully vaccinate?! How do I find them and

ask for advice??) and got suspected of being a spy

-> I thought, OK I have to do a risk and benefit analysis and need statistics

.... until I found that statistics may be strategically misrepresented, depending

on who presents them. This list taught me how to read between the lines ... how

to put things in a context. You have to figure out who benefits from what,

affiliations, etc.

-> I find this list to be useful, because there are people who are SO

knowledgeable on the subject, but got really scared because this is a completely

new territory. I wasn't used to questioning the vaccines or the medical

authorities, but now I don't know what to believe. I've read and probably know

way more than I *should* have to know as a non expert, and yet I feel the need

to read and learn more. At this point I'm putting all further shots on hold

until I make a decision. I feel strongly about not getting some, but am on the

borderline about some others. I may decide on a full stop. My husband trusts me

100% in this matter and will support me, which is great, but I also feel even

more responsible.

So, there's my long story of going from " Why would you not vaccinate? Are you

crazy? " to " Wow this is really scary stuff, I'm not sure what to do! " I share

your concerns and I hope both you and I will make a decision that is " right. "

I'm losing so much sleep over this matter, it's torturous. Sometimes I wish I

never started reading, but I keep telling myself that it's better to worry than

remain ignorant.

Ayako

[Guest guest]

I agree, Deb. I have to say that as I've gotten older, I look at the docs

differently--a lot of times because they are younger than I am! (feeling ancient

here...). When I realize the person in front of me might have training, but not

the " time on the job " I've had, it is so much easier to go against their

recommendations. I had one ped, fresh out of med school, who kept trying to give

me the spiel about vaccines. I said, " look Sonny (I didn't actually call him

that!), I've been doing this awhile, and doing it well. You are wasting your

breath on me. Let's get on with the check up. I've got things to do. "

As a new parent, and especially for younger parents, it is very difficult to

look at the docs as your equal. They are just people who did well in school in

the sciences and decided on medicine as a career path. They are not anointed

from on high with special powers or insight. They are just plain people.

They are also one of the medical tools for us to use should we wish, but we are

the final authority on what's best for our children. That's the way I've come to

look at it, but it took a long time. I think new parents who are questioning the

docs on vaccines beforehand are incredibly insightful and brave.

Winnie

Re: new to group and so confused

>

>

> I so know what you mean . I am there, being overwhelmed

> and confused.. I'm old (almost 40) and didn't have to get

> gazillion shots as a kid. I just got routine ones like DTP,

> Polio and GCB as I was growing up. MMR didn't exist and neither

> did Chickenpox vaccine. Never heard of anyone who was injured by

> vaccines.

>

> So, while I was pregnant in 07, I did come across some books

> etc., mentioning " vaccine controversy " and I was like

> " Controversy? Why would anyone NOT vaccinate their kids? " I got

> my flu shot in my thrid trimester. Shows you how ignorant I was.

> Then ...

>

> -> I had my first child in Feb 08, all was good until I took her

> to her 2 months visit. She got 4 shots and an oral on one day. I

> thought " wow that's kinda agressive " but assumed the doctor must

> know what she's doing, so I didn't question it

>

> -> Immediately after that, my then 2-month old slept for 3 hours

> (which was an unusually long nap for her) and then woke up

> SCREAMING. She did not stop for an hour and half. I called the

> doctor and was told to give her tylenol. At that moment I

> thought " Tylenol? Isn't that a pain killer? This doesn't sit

> very well with me at all " ... it seemed wrong to give an OTC

> drug to such a young infant. I did anyway, because I didn't know

> what else to do.

>

> -> That's when I started reading ... I got the Dr. Sears's book.

> I decided to pace out the shots. At this point I was giving one

> shot at a time and completed the 4-month doses, only it took a

> few months longer. By doing this, I antagonized the doctor and

> nurses and ended up leaving one pediatric office for another.

>

> -> I joined this mail group, desperate for a practical advice on

> how to get an exemption. By this point I KNEW I didn't want some

> of the shots. I jumped right into the subject of exemption,

> trying to find out what other people are doing (Surely there

> must be people who don't fully vaccinate?! How do I find them

> and ask for advice??) and got suspected of being a spy

>

> -> I thought, OK I have to do a risk and benefit analysis and

> need statistics ... until I found that statistics may be

> strategically misrepresented, depending on who presents them.

> This list taught me how to read between the lines ... how to put

> things in a context. You have to figure out who benefits from

> what, affiliations, etc.

>

> -> I find this list to be useful, because there are people who

> are SO knowledgeable on the subject, but got really scared

> because this is a completely new territory. I wasn't used to

> questioning the vaccines or the medical authorities, but now I

> don't know what to believe. I've read and probably know way more

> than I *should* have to know as a non expert, and yet I feel the

> need to read and learn more. At this point I'm putting all

> further shots on hold until I make a decision. I feel strongly

> about not getting some, but am on the borderline about some

> others. I may decide on a full stop. My husband trusts me 100%

> in this matter and will support me, which is great, but I also

> feel even more responsible.

>

> So, there's my long story of going from " Why would you not

> vaccinate? Are you crazy? " to " Wow this is really scary stuff,

> I'm not sure what to do! " I share your concerns and I hope both

> you and I will make a decision that is " right. " I'm losing so

> much sleep over this matter, it's torturous. Sometimes I wish I

> never started reading, but I keep telling myself that it's

> better to worry than remain ignorant.

>

> Ayako

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ayako,

It IS better to worry than be ignorant. I wish I didn't know what I know,

either. It has made for many sleepless nights over the years. We all need to

keep reading and learning more, myself included. Your story is helpful for

others to hear and I'm sure many of us can identify with parts of your

experience.

FYI--make sure those vaccines work before taking on the risk of side effects.

Otherwise, there is no " benefit " to figure into the risk/benefit analysis.

Winnie

Re: new to group and so confused

Vaccinations

> I so know what you mean . I am there, being overwhelmed

> and confused.. I'm old (almost 40) and didn't have to get

> gazillion shots as a kid. I just got routine ones like DTP,

> Polio and GCB as I was growing up. MMR didn't exist and neither

> did Chickenpox vaccine. Never heard of anyone who was injured by

> vaccines.

>

> So, while I was pregnant in 07, I did come across some books

> etc., mentioning " vaccine controversy " and I was like

> " Controversy? Why would anyone NOT vaccinate their kids? " I got

> my flu shot in my thrid trimester. Shows you how ignorant I was.

> Then ...

>

> -> I had my first child in Feb 08, all was good until I took her

> to her 2 months visit. She got 4 shots and an oral on one day. I

> thought " wow that's kinda agressive " but assumed the doctor must

> know what she's doing, so I didn't question it

>

> -> Immediately after that, my then 2-month old slept for 3 hours

> (which was an unusually long nap for her) and then woke up

> SCREAMING. She did not stop for an hour and half. I called the

> doctor and was told to give her tylenol. At that moment I

> thought " Tylenol? Isn't that a pain killer? This doesn't sit

> very well with me at all " ... it seemed wrong to give an OTC

> drug to such a young infant. I did anyway, because I didn't know

> what else to do.

>

> -> That's when I started reading ... I got the Dr. Sears's book.

> I decided to pace out the shots. At this point I was giving one

> shot at a time and completed the 4-month doses, only it took a

> few months longer. By doing this, I antagonized the doctor and

> nurses and ended up leaving one pediatric office for another.

>

> -> I joined this mail group, desperate for a practical advice on

> how to get an exemption. By this point I KNEW I didn't want some

> of the shots. I jumped right into the subject of exemption,

> trying to find out what other people are doing (Surely there

> must be people who don't fully vaccinate?! How do I find them

> and ask for advice??) and got suspected of being a spy

>

> -> I thought, OK I have to do a risk and benefit analysis and

> need statistics ... until I found that statistics may be

> strategically misrepresented, depending on who presents them.

> This list taught me how to read between the lines ... how to put

> things in a context. You have to figure out who benefits from

> what, affiliations, etc.

>

> -> I find this list to be useful, because there are people who

> are SO knowledgeable on the subject, but got really scared

> because this is a completely new territory. I wasn't used to

> questioning the vaccines or the medical authorities, but now I

> don't know what to believe. I've read and probably know way more

> than I *should* have to know as a non expert, and yet I feel the

> need to read and learn more. At this point I'm putting all

> further shots on hold until I make a decision. I feel strongly

> about not getting some, but am on the borderline about some

> others. I may decide on a full stop. My husband trusts me 100%

> in this matter and will support me, which is great, but I also

> feel even more responsible.

>

> So, there's my long story of going from " Why would you not

> vaccinate? Are you crazy? " to " Wow this is really scary stuff,

> I'm not sure what to do! " I share your concerns and I hope both

> you and I will make a decision that is " right. " I'm losing so

> much sleep over this matter, it's torturous. Sometimes I wish I

> never started reading, but I keep telling myself that it's

> better to worry than remain ignorant.

>

> Ayako

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ayako

Try to keep in mind, that everything you read or heard about any and all

vaccines protecting or preventing

any disease is a lie. Keep reading and than start questioning what you read and

finally use your common sense instead of the fear they have injected into your

mind. Soon you will help others to overcome their fears.

Jim

________________________________

From: " wharrison@... " <wharrison@...>

Vaccinations

Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 8:18:01 AM

Subject: Re: new to group and so confused

Ayako,

It IS better to worry than be ignorant. I wish I didn't know what I know,

either. It has made for many sleepless nights over the years. We all need to

keep reading and learning more, myself included. Your story is helpful for

others to hear and I'm sure many of us can identify with parts of your

experience.

FYI--make sure those vaccines work before taking on the risk of side effects.

Otherwise, there is no " benefit " to figure into the risk/benefit analysis.

Winnie

Re: new to group and so confused

Vaccinations

> I so know what you mean . I am there, being overwhelmed

> and confused.. I'm old (almost 40) and didn't have to get

> gazillion shots as a kid. I just got routine ones like DTP,

> Polio and GCB as I was growing up. MMR didn't exist and neither

> did Chickenpox vaccine. Never heard of anyone who was injured by

> vaccines.

>

> So, while I was pregnant in 07, I did come across some books

> etc., mentioning " vaccine controversy " and I was like

> " Controversy? Why would anyone NOT vaccinate their kids? " I got

> my flu shot in my thrid trimester. Shows you how ignorant I was.

> Then ...

>

> -> I had my first child in Feb 08, all was good until I took her

> to her 2 months visit. She got 4 shots and an oral on one day. I

> thought " wow that's kinda agressive " but assumed the doctor must

> know what she's doing, so I didn't question it

>

> -> Immediately after that, my then 2-month old slept for 3 hours

> (which was an unusually long nap for her) and then woke up

> SCREAMING. She did not stop for an hour and half. I called the

> doctor and was told to give her tylenol. At that moment I

> thought " Tylenol? Isn't that a pain killer? This doesn't sit

> very well with me at all " ... it seemed wrong to give an OTC

> drug to such a young infant. I did anyway, because I didn't know

> what else to do.

>

> -> That's when I started reading ... I got the Dr. Sears's book.

> I decided to pace out the shots. At this point I was giving one

> shot at a time and completed the 4-month doses, only it took a

> few months longer. By doing this, I antagonized the doctor and

> nurses and ended up leaving one pediatric office for another.

>

> -> I joined this mail group, desperate for a practical advice on

> how to get an exemption. By this point I KNEW I didn't want some

> of the shots. I jumped right into the subject of exemption,

> trying to find out what other people are doing (Surely there

> must be people who don't fully vaccinate?! How do I find them

> and ask for advice??) and got suspected of being a spy

>

> -> I thought, OK I have to do a risk and benefit analysis and

> need statistics ... until I found that statistics may be

> strategically misrepresented, depending on who presents them.

> This list taught me how to read between the lines ... how to put

> things in a context. You have to figure out who benefits from

> what, affiliations, etc.

>

> -> I find this list to be useful, because there are people who

> are SO knowledgeable on the subject, but got really scared

> because this is a completely new territory. I wasn't used to

> questioning the vaccines or the medical authorities, but now I

> don't know what to believe. I've read and probably know way more

> than I *should* have to know as a non expert, and yet I feel the

> need to read and learn more. At this point I'm putting all

> further shots on hold until I make a decision. I feel strongly

> about not getting some, but am on the borderline about some

> others. I may decide on a full stop. My husband trusts me 100%

> in this matter and will support me, which is great, but I also

> feel even more responsible.

>

> So, there's my long story of going from " Why would you not

> vaccinate? Are you crazy? " to " Wow this is really scary stuff,

> I'm not sure what to do! " I share your concerns and I hope both

> you and I will make a decision that is " right. " I'm losing so

> much sleep over this matter, it's torturous. Sometimes I wish I

> never started reading, but I keep telling myself that it's

> better to worry than remain ignorant..

>

> Ayako

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I agree, Deb. I have to say that as I've gotten older, I look at the

docs differently--a lot of times because they are younger than I am!

(feeling ancient here...). When I realize the person in front of me

might have training, but not the " time on the job " I've had, it

And, not every medical student graduated #1 in the class - there is

always one at the bottom and everywhere in-between.

In that class one may turn out to be a great diagnostican and one may

not be worth the price of an office visit.

What we do know is they all come out of med school with the same

indoctrination.

Jackie Noel

www.sagaciousairedales.com

www.sagaciousdogcountry.com

[Guest guest]

Exactly! When it comes to vaccines and the pushing of poisons (meds),

it doesn't matter if one graduated at the top or the bottom of the

class. The brilliant mind at the top of the class is still spreading

myth they have been taught is truth - and they have chosen not to

question it for themselves - when they advise you to vaccinate or take

a poisonous drug to " cure " yourself. Misinformation is still

misinformation, and a lie is still a lie, regardless of how brilliant

the advocate is

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 10:22 AM, jnoelsagacious

<jnoelsagacious@...> wrote:

>

<snip>

> And, not every medical student graduated #1 in the class - there is

> always one at the bottom and everywhere in-between.

>

> In that class one may turn out to be a great diagnostican and one may

> not be worth the price of an office visit.

>

> What we do know is they all come out of med school with the same

> indoctrination.

>

> Jackie Noel

> www.sagaciousairedales.com

> www.sagaciousdogcountry.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Ayako,

I know what you mean about wishing you had never started reading about this

because it is still confusing. I just decided that since I still have doubts

about vaccinating, then I just shouldn't do it. Like I said my kids never

reacted to their shots but if one of them had reacted like yours did that would

have terminated the whole vaccine debate for me. If yours reacted, from

everything I've kind of read, you need to be very careful. Yet, I know the fear

of not vaccinating...what if they are right....then I look at my father who was

a vagabond for many years of his life....traveled through many countries,

sleeping wherever, eating whatever and he is a healthy 79 year old and the only

vaccination he ever received was for diptheria and polio...he  lived on the

amazon river for 6 months, came into contact with many indigenous tribes and

never came down with anything major, as he says, nothing that a little whisky,

honey and lemon couldn't cure (he's

scottish) When he hears about this whole massive vaccination schedule they have

know he thinks it's ridiculous. Anyways, I know where your at with your

feelings, it is so hard but I am coming around to if you doubt it, don't do it!

From: Ayako Kato <ayako.kato@...>

Subject: Re: new to group and so confused

Vaccinations

Date: Monday, December 15, 2008, 7:40 PM

I so know what you mean . I am there, being overwhelmed and confused..

I'm old (almost 40) and didn't have to get gazillion shots as a kid. I just got

routine ones like DTP, Polio and GCB as I was growing up. MMR didn't exist and

neither did Chickenpox vaccine. Never heard of anyone who was injured by

vaccines.

So, while I was pregnant in 07, I did come across some books etc., mentioning

" vaccine controversy " and I was like " Controversy? Why would anyone NOT

vaccinate their kids? " I got my flu shot in my thrid trimester. Shows you how

ignorant I was. Then ...

-> I had my first child in Feb 08, all was good until I took her to her 2 months

visit. She got 4 shots and an oral on one day. I thought " wow that's kinda

agressive " but assumed the doctor must know what she's doing, so I didn't

question it

-> Immediately after that, my then 2-month old slept for 3 hours (which was an

unusually long nap for her) and then woke up SCREAMING. She did not stop for an

hour and half. I called the doctor and was told to give her tylenol. At that

moment I thought " Tylenol? Isn't that a pain killer? This doesn't sit very well

with me at all " ... it seemed wrong to give an OTC drug to such a young infant.

I did anyway, because I didn't know what else to do.

-> That's when I started reading ... I got the Dr. Sears's book. I decided to

pace out the shots. At this point I was giving one shot at a time and completed

the 4-month doses, only it took a few months longer. By doing this, I

antagonized the doctor and nurses and ended up leaving one pediatric office for

another.

-> I joined this mail group, desperate for a practical advice on how to get an

exemption. By this point I KNEW I didn't want some of the shots. I jumped right

into the subject of exemption, trying to find out what other people are doing

(Surely there must be people who don't fully vaccinate?! How do I find them and

ask for advice??) and got suspected of being a spy

-> I thought, OK I have to do a risk and benefit analysis and need statistics

.... until I found that statistics may be strategically misrepresented, depending

on who presents them. This list taught me how to read between the lines ... how

to put things in a context. You have to figure out who benefits from what,

affiliations, etc.

-> I find this list to be useful, because there are people who are

SO knowledgeable on the subject, but got really scared because this is a

completely new territory. I wasn't used to questioning the vaccines or the

medical authorities, but now I don't know what to believe. I've read and

probably know way more than I *should* have to know as a non expert, and yet I

feel the need to read and learn more. At this point I'm putting all further

shots on hold until I make a decision. I feel strongly about not getting some,

but am on the borderline about some others. I may decide on a full stop. My

husband trusts me 100% in this matter and will support me, which is great, but I

also feel even more responsible.

So, there's my long story of going from " Why would you not vaccinate? Are you

crazy? " to " Wow this is really scary stuff, I'm not sure what to do! " I share

your concerns and I hope both you and I will make a decision that is " right. "

I'm losing so much sleep over this matter, it's torturous. Sometimes I wish I

never started reading, but I keep telling myself that it's better to worry than

remain ignorant.

Ayako

[Guest guest]

You are so right. I read something years ago about some testing of DPT

vaccines--long, long time ago (not sure by whom or how they got a hold of an

entire lot)--and they found that the potency of the vaccine not only varied

between lots, but within them. I think it was up to six times more potent in

some.

Maybe I read it in the Shot in the Dark book, because that also had info about a

number of deaths after DPT shots in Tennessee over the course of a weekend back

in the 1970's. I think these details are correct. An investigation was done,

although I'm not sure if the company (Wyeth) was reprimanded. However, after the

deaths, the company split up lots so that no more than 200 doses went to any one

area of the country. This was solely to make it difficult to track hot lots.

Isn't that unbelievable?

I agree, it's difficult when it's your child and you're terrified over them

getting something. There likely will come a time when that terror is solely

directed at vaccines and you won't be giving the diseases much thought at all.

Stay away from those buses!

Winnie

Re: new to group and so confused

Vaccinations

> Hi Winnie,

>

> > FYI--make sure those vaccines work before taking on the risk

> of side effects.

> > Otherwise, there is no " benefit " to figure into the

> risk/benefit analysis.

>

> Took me a while to realize that there is NO way of knowing how

> effective vaccines are. The problem is that these are not fully

> tested by an independent party, and that the manufacturing

> process is *necessarily* proprietary. It's also obvious, even to

> an uneducated eye, that the quality of each dose *must* vary -

> the virii and bacteria they make vaccines from could not

> possibly be identical across all of the lots.

>

> My only first-hand experience of a vaccine NOT working is with

> MMR which I got as an adult. Only a year later, when I was

> pregnant, I was told that I wasn't immune to rubella. My OB/GYN

> said " you should get a rubella shot once your baby's out, before

> you get pregnant again " and I said " but Dr., I'm pretty sure I

> got vaccinated for rubella. " She said " sometimes the effect

> wears off, so you should get a booster " and I thought ...

> there's NO way I'll get a rubella shot each time I plan to be

> pregnant, that's kind of stupid.

>

> When it comes to myself, I can make a quick decision and move

> on. When it's about my child though, I am afraid of things like

> tetanus and meningitis. It's so agonizing.

>

> When I asked my husband what he'd do if I get knocked over by a

> bus today, he said he'd just stop vaccinating our child. To be

> honest, it made me feel better, and I don't even know why but

> that may very well be the direction we'll go, even if I didn't

> get knocked over by a bus.

>

> Thanks for letting me vent,

> Ayako

>

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