Re: coffee enema help - gross email

May 27, 2004

LOL! Sorry, this cracked me up. I'm just tried to picture this event in my mind.....lol

Seriously though.The things you saw in your poops is probably food, like the seeds.Not all foods digest all the way. After I eat corn, well, you get the idea...... The red stuff can be a red thing you ate (like tomato skins) but perhaps you should see a doctor to make certain you're not experiencing rectal/internal bleeding.

Your stools are hard? You need FIBER! I'm telling you, eat that Kellogg's All Bran, drink 8 glasses a water a day minimum, give up pork, red meat, eat bunches of fruit and veggies and you'll clean yourself out. Working out to the point of sweating is great to release toxins. This helps you sweat out toxins as does frequent urination through drinking a good water supply daily. Don't use an antiperspirant but a natural DEODORANT (my derms told me this) so you can release sweat bacteria that needs to come out.

I know so of you might not agree with my but sticking strange unsanitary stuff up the butt to detox is not the way to go. You can get an anal infection or injure yourself.

Good detox comes from a healthy lifestyle and high fiber diet. Nature already has build in our own mechanisms for detox, it's up to us to avoid junk food, artificial anti-perperants, and to drink plenty of good juice and water instead of sodas and crap. Please think twice about sticking stuff up your butt. If you eat All Bran every day, believe me, it will be smooth sailing! Ask .

Sorry, I hope I did not make light of your problem. I've been in your situation and with a clean colon and skin, I KNOW fiber and good foods helped me.

Hugs,

LMbethlakey <bethlakey@...> wrote:

Ok, to everyone who is a coffee enema expert. I just finally got the nerve to try it. It took me forever to get everything just right, but I am a little freaked out. I could only hold it for about seven minutes. My stomach was making noises like a creaking ship, and gurgling,etc. I had to run to the toilet. Here is the really gross part. The smell was just terrible and the stuff that came out was really weird. I had little white and dark red looking things mixed in there. They were as small as seeds, but I used a gloved finger to examine them and they were pretty hard, like rocks. I wonder if they were bugs or something?! Has anyone had a similar experience? I will probably try this in a couple of days again. Also, big question. Can you prepare the coffee the night before and keep it in the refrigerator, or does it have to be fresh?

All in all it took me a complete hour to do everything and I am limited for time.Thanks!Beth

May 27, 2004

Well, I think that many need the coffee enemas to detox, so I don't totally

agree with you. But I agree about the diet and the anti-perspirants. Some

think breast cancer comes from those. I use natural deodorants from the

health food store, eat lots of good fruits and veggies, lots of fiber, and

drink lots and lots of reverse osmosis filtered water. I eat free range

meat in moderation. Garlic is GREAT for candida. Avoiding sugar and white

starches and dairy was the most important part of my detox. Also, I

avoided caffeine, alcohol, and I don't smoke. Keeping my diet extra clean

and organic for a couple of years probably saved my life.

Colonics can help when people are first detoxing. I would not recommend

them on a continuing basis.

I found a cereal at Vitamin Cottage that has 9 grams of fiber per serving,

it is called Familia and is a muesli. Good way to start the morning with

some fresh fruit. Also, most health experts say to juice the veggies, but

eat whole fruit, less sugar, more fiber.

At 04:28 PM 5/27/2004, you wrote:

>LOL! Sorry, this cracked me up. I'm just tried to picture this event in my

>mind.....lol

May 28, 2004

Lynda:

Hi. I'd like to see the medical data on enemas.Do you know where I can read some?

I don't know much about them but all doctors I have been too are opposed to ememas except for corrective constipation and that should only be done very rarely. Colonics and enemas create dependancy.

Sounds like you eat very healthy, congrats!Lynda <coss@...> wrote:

Well, I think that many need the coffee enemas to detox, so I don't totally agree with you. But I agree about the diet and the anti-perspirants. Some think breast cancer comes from those. I use natural deodorants from the health food store, eat lots of good fruits and veggies, lots of fiber, and drink lots and lots of reverse osmosis filtered water. I eat free range meat in moderation. Garlic is GREAT for candida. Avoiding sugar and white starches and dairy was the most important part of my detox. Also, I avoided caffeine, alcohol, and I don't smoke. Keeping my diet extra clean and organic for a couple of years probably saved my life.Colonics can help when people are first detoxing. I would not recommend them on a continuing basis.I found a cereal at Vitamin Cottage that has 9 grams of fiber per serving, it is called Familia and

is a muesli. Good way to start the morning with some fresh fruit. Also, most health experts say to juice the veggies, but eat whole fruit, less sugar, more fiber.At 04:28 PM 5/27/2004, you wrote:>LOL! Sorry, this cracked me up. I'm just tried to picture this event in my >mind.....lol

May 28, 2004

Beth,

The sounds are normal. Not being able to hold it the

full 15 minutes is also normal, but it is okay to try

to hold it in as long as you can.

I've also heard of strange things coming out....when I

was on the bowel cleanse group, some of the

stories were unbelievable...and I saw all kinds of

descriptions of weird things coming out.

Another silicone sister did Dr. Bernard Jensen's colon

cleanse, using the colonic board, and she said she had

a " get down on the floor screaming Jesus " experience

after seeing what came out of her one day. I wouldn't

be surprised at all. It just confirms that you need

to get cleaned out and keep it up! Parasites are not

unheard of at all.

You CAN prepare the coffee the night before and warm

it up to use when ready. That would be prefectly fine.

Glad to hear you took the plunge! Sounds like it was

extremely productive for you!

Patty

--- bethlakey <bethlakey@...> wrote:

> Ok, to everyone who is a coffee enema expert. I

> just finally

> got the nerve to try it. It took me forever to get

> everything just

> right, but I am a little freaked out. I could only

> hold it for

> about seven minutes. My stomach was making noises

> like a creaking

> ship, and gurgling,etc. I had to run to the toilet.

> Here is the

> really gross part. The smell was just terrible and

> the stuff that

> came out was really weird. I had little white and

> dark red looking

> things mixed in there. They were as small as seeds,

> but I used a

> gloved finger to examine them and they were pretty

> hard, like

> rocks. I wonder if they were bugs or something?!

> Has anyone had a similar experience? I will

> probably try this

> in a couple of days again. Also, big question. Can

> you prepare the

> coffee the night before and keep it in the

> refrigerator, or does it

> have to be fresh? All in all it took me a complete

> hour to do

> everything and I am limited for time.

>

> Thanks!

> Beth

>

__________________________________________________

May 28, 2004

Sometimes I wonder why people still believe everything docs say after what

they did to us with implants.

The alternative medical establishment is well founded in its

beliefs. Check out the alternative sources. I avoid docs most of the time

as they are the reason I was sick in the first place.

I am sure that most docs would tell you that lots of natural things are

bad. Even my oncologist scoffs at my many nutrients. But, when I don't

take them for 3-4 days, my fatigue just overwhelms me, and a day of taking

them again brings me out of it.

I am sure you can research enemas. Patty may have info.

Lynda

At 05:04 PM 5/27/2004, you wrote:

>Lynda:

>Hi. I'd like to see the medical data on enemas.Do you know where I can

>read some?

> I don't know much about them but all doctors I have been too are opposed

> to ememas except for corrective constipation and that should only be done

> very rarely. Colonics and enemas create dependancy.

>Sounds like you eat very healthy, congrats!

>

>Lynda <coss@...> wrote:

>Well, I think that many need the coffee enemas to detox, so I don't totally

>agree with you. But I agree about the diet and the anti-perspirants. Some

>think breast cancer comes from those. I use natural deodorants from the

>health food store, eat lots of good fruits and veggies, lots of fiber, and

>drink lots and lots of reverse osmosis filtered water. I eat free range

>meat in moderation. Garlic is GREAT for candida. Avoiding sugar and white

>starches and dairy was the most important part of my detox. Also, I

>avoided caffeine, alcohol, and I don't smoke. Keeping my diet extra clean

>and organic for a couple of years probably saved my life.

>

>Colonics can help when people are first detoxing. I would not recommend

>them on a continuing basis.

>

>I found a cereal at Vitamin Cottage that has 9 grams of fiber per serving,

>it is called Familia and is a muesli. Good way to start the morning with

>some fresh fruit. Also, most health experts say to juice the veggies, but

>eat whole fruit, less sugar, more fiber.

>

>At 04:28 PM 5/27/2004, you wrote:

> >LOL! Sorry, this cracked me up. I'm just tried to picture this event in my

> >mind.....lol

>

May 28, 2004

Try this link instead:

http://www.ralphmoss.com/coff.html

COFFEE: THE ROYAL FLUSH

From The Cancer Chronicles #6 and #7

This is a two-part story on the history of the coffee

enema.It has been reprinted often around the world.

--Ed.

--------------------------------------------------

The most controversial alternative procedures has to

be the coffee enema. Along with other detoxification

routines, the coffee enema is a central part of both

the Gerson and the Kelley programs. It is always good

for a laugh: " with milk or sugar? " This

bizarre-sounding treatment can also be used to scare

people away from alternatives in general. No

quackbusting article these days is complete without a

reference to " enemas made from roasted coffee beans. "

So what's the story? Is the coffee enema crackpot

faddism or is there some rationale behind this

procedure?

An enema is " a fluid injected into the rectum for the

purpose of clearing out the bowel, or of administering

drugs or food. " The word itself comes from the Greek

en-hienai, meaning to " send or inject into. " The enema

has been called " one of the oldest medical procedures

still in use today. " Tribal women in Africa, and

elsewhere, routinely use it on their children. The

earliest medical text in existence, the Egyptian Ebers

Papyrus, (1,500 B.C.) mentions it. Millennia before,

the Pharaoh had a " guardian of the anus, " a special

doctor one of whose purposes was to administer the

royal enema.

The Greeks wrote of the fabled cleanliness of the

Egyptians, which included the internal cleansing of

their systems through emetics and enemas. They

employed these on three consecutive days every month

said Herodotus (II.77) or at intervals of three or

four days, according to the later historian Diodorus.

The Egyptians explained to their visitors that they

did this because they " believed that diseases were

engendered by superfluities of the food " , a

modern-sounding theory!

Enemas were known in ancient Sumeria, Babylonia,

India, Greece and China. American Indians

independently invented it, using a syringe made of an

animal bladder and a hollow leg bone. Pre-Columbian

South Americans fashioned latex into the first rubber

enema bags and tubes. In fact, there is hardly a

region of the world where people did not discover or

adapt the enema. It is more ubiquitous than the wheel.

Enemas are found in world literature from Aristophanes

to Shakespeare, Gulliver Travels to Peyton Place.

In pre-revolutionary France a daily enema after dinner

was de rigueur. It was not only considered

indispensable for health but practiced for good

complexion as well. Louis XIV is said to have taken

over 2,000 in his lifetime.Could this have been the

source of the Sun King's sunny disposition? For

centuries, enemas were a routine home remedy. Then,

within living memory, the routine use of enemas died

out. The main times that doctors employ them nowadays

is before or after surgery and childbirth. Difficult

and potentially dangerous barium enemas before colonic

X rays are of course still a favorite of allopathic

doctors.

But why coffee? This bean has an interesting history.

It was imported in Arabia in the early 1500's by the

Sufi religious mystics, who used it to fight

drowsiness while praying. It was especially prized for

its medicinal qualities, in both the Near East and

Europe. No one knows when the first daring soul filled

the enema bag with a quart of java. What is known is

that the coffee enema appeared at least as early as

1917 and was found in the prestigious Merck Manual

until 1972. In the 1920s German scientists found that

a caffeine solution could open the bile ducts and

stimulate the production of bile in the liver of

experimental animals.

Dr. Max Gerson used this clinically as part of a

general detoxification regimen, first for

tuberculosis, then cancer. Caffeine, he postulated,

will travel up the hemorrhoidal to the portal vein and

thence to the liver itself. Gerson noted some

remarkable effects of this procedure. For instance,

patients could dispense with all pain-killers once on

the enemas. Many people have noted the paradoxical

calming effect of coffee enemas. And while coffee

enemas can relieve constipation, Gerson cautioned:

" Patients have to know that the coffee enemas are not

given for the function of the intestines but for the

stimulation of the liver. "

Coffee enemas were an established part of medical

practice when Dr. Max Gerson introduced them into

cancer therapy in the 1930s. Basing himself on German

laboratory work, Gerson believed that caffeine could

stimulate the liver and gall bladder to discharge

bile. He felt this process could contribute to the

health of the cancer patient.

Although the coffee enema has been heaped with scorn,

there has been some independent scientific work that

gives credence to this concept. In 1981, for instance,

Dr. Lee Wattenberg and his colleagues were able to

show that substances found in coffee—kahweol and

cafestol palmitate—promote the activity of a key

enzyme system, glutathione S-transferase, above the

norm. This system detoxifies a vast array of

electrophiles from the bloodstream and, according to

Gar Hildenbrand of the Gerson Institute, " must be

regarded as an important mechanism for carcinogen

detoxification. " This enzyme group is responsible for

neutralizing free radicals, harmful chemicals now

commonly implicated in the initiation of cancer. In

mice, for example, these systems are enhanced 600

percent in the liver and 700 percent in the bowel when

coffee beans are added to the mice's diet.

Dr. Lechner, who is investigating the Gerson

method at the Landeskrankenhaus of Graz, Austria, has

reported that " coffee enemas have a definite effect on

the colon which can be observed with an endoscope. "

F.W. Cope (1977) has postulated the existence of a

" tissue damage syndrome. " When cells are challenged by

poison, oxygen deprivation, malnutrition or a physical

trauma they lose potassium, take on sodium and

chloride, and swell up with excess water.

Another scientist (Ling) has suggested that water in a

normal cell is contained in an " ice-like " structure.

Being alive requires not just the right chemicals but

the right chemical structure. Cells normally have a

preference for potassium over sodium but when a cell

is damaged it begins to prefer sodium. This craving

results in a damaged ability of cells to repair

themselves and to utilize energy. Further, damaged

cells produce toxins; around tumors are zones of

" wounded " but still non-malignant tissue, swollen with

salt and water.

Gerson believed it axiomatic that cancer could not

exist in normal metabolism. He pointed to the fact

that scientists often had to damage an animal's

thyroid and adrenals just to get a transplanted tumor

to " take. " He directed his efforts toward creating

normal metabolism in the tissue surrounding a tumor.

It is the liver and small bowel which neutralize the

most common tissue toxins: polyamines, ammonia,

toxic-bound nitrogen, and electrophiles. These

detoxification systems are probably enhanced by the

coffee enema. Physiological Chemistry and Physics has

stated that " caffeine enemas cause dilation of bile

ducts, which facilitates excretion of toxic cancer

breakdown products by the liver and dialysis of toxic

products across the colonic wall. "

In addition, theophylline and theobromine (two other

chemicals in coffee) dilate blood vessels and counter

inflammation of the gut; the palmitates enhance the

enzyme system responsible for the removal of toxic

free radicals from the serum; and the fluid of the

enema then stimulates the visceral nervous system to

promote peristalsis and the transit of diluted toxic

bile from the duodenum and out the rectum.

Since the enema is generally held for 15 minutes, and

all the blood in the body passes through the liver

every three minutes, " these enemas represent a form of

dialysis of blood across the gut wall " (Healing

Newsletter, #13, May-June, 1986).

Prejudice against coffee enemas continues, however.

Although this data was made available to Office of

Technology Assessment it was largely ignored in their

box on the procedure. They dismissively state " there

is no scientific evidence to support the claim that

coffee enemas detoxify the blood or liver. "

No medical procedure is without risk and OTA is quick

to point out alleged dangers of the coffee enemas. For

instance, they cite one doctor's opinion that coffee

" taken by this route is a strong stimulant and can be

at least as addictive as coffee taken regularly by

mouth. " This may indeed be true. Yet one wonders where

the data is on this, and whether OTA would issue a

similar warning about the perils of coffee drinking.

Another potential danger, they say, is physical damage

to the rectum— " fatal bowel perforation and necrosis "

which have been associated with " various other types

of enema. " The risk of perforation comes from the

insertion device used. At the Gerson clinic, for

instance, they use a short nozzle which couldn't

inflict much harm; uses a soft rubber colon

tube. In neither case would this caveat seem to apply.

On thin evidence, OTA also suggests enemas can cause

colitis.

The agency also cites the case of the two Seattle

women who died following excessive enema use. Their

deaths were attributed to fluid and electrolyte

abnormalities. One took 10 to 12 coffee enemas in a

single night and then continued at a rate of one per

hour. The other took four daily. As OTA points out,

" in both cases, the enemas were taken much more

frequently than is recommended in the Gerson

treatment. "

In general, coffee enemas are an important tool for

physicians who try to detoxify the body. This is not

to say they are a panacea. They certainly require much

more research. But coffee enemas are serious business:

their potential should be explored by good

research—not mined for cheap shots at alternative

medicine or derisively dismissed as yet another

crackpot fad.

###

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ralph W. Moss, Ph.D. is the author of eight books and

three documentaries on cancer-related topics. He is an

advisor on alternative cancer treatments to the

National Institutes of Health, Columbia University,

and the University of Texas. He researches and writes

individualized Healing Choices reports for people with

cancer. For information on Healing Choices, you can

contact coordinator Anne Beattie in the following

ways:

Address: 144 St. 's Place, Brooklyn, NY 11217

Phone 718-636-4433 Fax 718-636-0186 E-mail

mail@... Web site http://www.ralphmoss.com

__________________________________________________

May 28, 2004

I don't believe things just because a doctor or anyone just says something.I'm a critical thinker and that is precisely why I asked for data, because some docs and their so-called research are so full of crap, that's why I need to see this stuff for myself!

I was anorexic and became dependent on enemas and now I have to eat tons of fiber just to poop like a normal adult. If most peeps ate all the fiber I do, they'd be sitting on the crapper all day long---lol!

As for alternative doctors somehow being "better" than those bad main-streamers, it cuts both ways. I've had my fair share of both kinds ad nausea.

The idiot MD who put me on HGH was mainstream doc in the Midwest-- she is very bad news. Two other alternative Md's nearly killed me with thyroid medication I did not need and HGH. If you think that only mainstream docs give out dangerous meds and are the bad guys while these alternative MD are safer and better, think again. Judge a doctor as an individual.Alternative docs have their own bulls** spinning and scamming just like any bad, uncaring worthless mainstream doc too, they're pockets are just as deep too as is their desire for $$.I saw how some sucked my friends dry knowing how vulnerable they were. A bad doc is a bad doc, period.

The key is finding a good doc who thinks OUTSIDE THE BOX, not alternative versus mainstream. I'm going to the gyn dept. at GU next week and the use identical hormones on women who need it. I feel much better going to a place that uses the scientific method approach while at the same time thinking outside the box. They are out there, you just have to look.

About docs and implants. I've been to both mainstream and alternative docs who deny saline implants are harmful.In fact I know of a few Psi's in on the HGH hormone action and they do implants too. This HGH crapolla is a cash cow and people are getting sucked in too.

The doctors I have seen personally who admit implants have dangers, albeit, it's a small number, were mainstream dermatologist.If you read hair loss connected to implants, you'll see these are mainstream derms and rhumeys. It's posted on keratin.com.

I'm not trying to offend anyone, I've just been sucked in and screwed from both sides and I've learned not to stereotype doctors.

Thanks for reading.

Lynda <coss@...> wrote:

Sometimes I wonder why people still believe everything docs say after what they did to us with implants.The alternative medical establishment is well founded in its beliefs. Check out the alternative sources. I avoid docs most of the time as they are the reason I was sick in the first place.I am sure that most docs would tell you that lots of natural things are bad. Even my oncologist scoffs at my many nutrients. But, when I don't take them for 3-4 days, my fatigue just overwhelms me, and a day of taking them again brings me out of it.I am sure you can research enemas. Patty may have info.LyndaAt 05:04 PM 5/27/2004, you wrote:>Lynda:>Hi. I'd like to see the medical data on enemas.Do you know where I can >read some?> I don't know much about them but all doctors I have been too are opposed

> to ememas except for corrective constipation and that should only be done > very rarely. Colonics and enemas create dependancy.>Sounds like you eat very healthy, congrats!>>Lynda wrote:>Well, I think that many need the coffee enemas to detox, so I don't totally>agree with you. But I agree about the diet and the anti-perspirants. Some>think breast cancer comes from those. I use natural deodorants from the>health food store, eat lots of good fruits and veggies, lots of fiber, and>drink lots and lots of reverse osmosis filtered water. I eat free range>meat in moderation. Garlic is GREAT for candida. Avoiding sugar and white>starches and dairy was the most important part of my detox. Also, I>avoided caffeine, alcohol, and I don't smoke. Keeping my diet extra clean>and organic for a couple of years probably saved my life.>>Colonics can help when people are

first detoxing. I would not recommend>them on a continuing basis.>>I found a cereal at Vitamin Cottage that has 9 grams of fiber per serving,>it is called Familia and is a muesli. Good way to start the morning with>some fresh fruit. Also, most health experts say to juice the veggies, but>eat whole fruit, less sugar, more fiber.>>>At 04:28 PM 5/27/2004, you wrote:> >LOL! Sorry, this cracked me up. I'm just tried to picture this event in my> >mind.....lol>>>>>>>

May 28, 2004

Yes, it was one of those things on my list to do. Plus Dr Kolb

wants me to do them THREE times a week for about a month. She said

this will take the burden off my skin from detoxing. I don't plan

on overdoing them after that. Whatever that stuff was, I know it

wasn't food. I eat the same thing pretty much everyday. I'll have

to email her and get her opinion.

Also, I've made a tough decision to join a gym. There's one down

the street that has a steam sauna. The price is right and they

offer child care, a little extra. I just can't get a good workout

here with my litle ones, so I'm going to go to the gym on my lunch

hour when I am home, and then swim or walk with the kids on

alternate days.

Whew, detoxing is hard work.

hugs,

Beth

> > Ok, to everyone who is a coffee enema expert. I

> > just finally

> > got the nerve to try it. It took me forever to get

> > everything just

> > right, but I am a little freaked out. I could only

> > hold it for

> > about seven minutes. My stomach was making noises

> > like a creaking

> > ship, and gurgling,etc. I had to run to the toilet.

> > Here is the

> > really gross part. The smell was just terrible and

> > the stuff that

> > came out was really weird. I had little white and

> > dark red looking

> > things mixed in there. They were as small as seeds,

> > but I used a

> > gloved finger to examine them and they were pretty

> > hard, like

> > rocks. I wonder if they were bugs or something?!

> > Has anyone had a similar experience? I will

> > probably try this

> > in a couple of days again. Also, big question. Can

> > you prepare the

> > coffee the night before and keep it in the

> > refrigerator, or does it

> > have to be fresh? All in all it took me a complete

> > hour to do

> > everything and I am limited for time.

> >

> > Thanks!

> > Beth

> >

>

> __________________________________________________

>

May 28, 2004

I agree with your opinions here, there are good Dr's out there and

bad ones, NOT ALL DR'S ARE BAD. I happen to work with a ton of them

and have for the last 12 years of my career, there are good and bad

Dr's just like any other profession, good and bad waiters, good and

bad personal trainers, on and on. We hold Dr's to a higher standard

for sure, and we have every right to, but the fact is they are just

people too, and so we have to use common sense when dealing with

them. The fact is that many of the Dr's(including ones on our explant

list) do not agree with our stance that implants are bad, or certain

ones say that this type is better than that type etc etc, and the

bottom line is that allot of them are implanting faster than they are

explanting. I learned through my research who was doing what and made

a decision based on what I morally could live with. It might not go

over big here so I am not going to get into details, I just know the

fact that sometimes we have to do what is right for us and I happen

to believe there are some PS's out there who are doing more explants

than implants, who believe in our illness, and who have allot more

experience doing these surgeries and dealing with this illness than

others. We need to take responsibility for our healing and for the PS

we chose, as we will be the ones to live with the outcome for the

rest of our lives. That is why for me, I knew I had to do what my

heart told me to do, and that way later on I would not be feeling as

if I had made the wrong choice.

I am sure there are just as many quack naturopathic Dr's as there are

good ones, and so in chosing one of these I would again, take

precautions and educate oneself with the facts before undergoing any

treatments that you feel uncomfortable with. The fact is that natural

medicine is not totally risk free, just because someone is or claims

to be a naturopath does not mean they cannot cause harm or damage,

herbs, enemas, all these things can be harmful as well as

prescriptions or anything else. It is my opinion that doing enemas on

a continuous basis is risky. That is my opinion and I won't tell

anyone else what to do, I just know that it really is not something I

will ever do esp on a daily or weekly basis. I healed without that so

I know it is not something that MUST be done to heal all implant

illnesses. If it makes some of us feel better, than by all means, go

for it. We have to do what works for us.

Many many Dr's are good at what they do, I know several neurosurgeons

who are fantastic right here in Idaho Falls and I would be completely

trusting of them to do brain surgery on me if the need arose, I know

back surgeons who are also excellent. I would not expect them to know

much about implants since that is not their area of expertise.

I think saying all Dr's are bad is really misrepresenting Dr's and is

unwise. People are entitled to say it, and because of our experience

with many of them this is a feeling we may have. I have had good and

bad experiences with many and I happen to hate the only

rheumatologist in this town and would not go to him even if I was

sick with an autoimmune disease, but that does not mean there are NO

good Dr's in the world.

We need to make it our business to research and come to a place where

we are realistic in our expectations of Dr's. I feel most americans

place them up on a pedestal and that is unrealistic. They don't know

everything, but many specialists as I mentioned above are excellent

at what they do. When it comes to your health, as in any other

situation, buyer beware, do your homework, search your soul, make

sure you know what your getting into and don't always take one

persons word about what is right for you, whether they have MD by

their name or not, this does not make them god.

we all need to remember that the bottom line is we are really

responsible for our own bodies, and not to sound harsh but I know

there are good Dr's out there. We may not always hear what we want to

hear, but there are good ones.

when it comes to implants, I have learned that there are going to be

very few who will agree that they cause illness. This is because of

the FDA and until the FDA comes out and says implants are bad, most

Dr's are not going to validate our diseases.

-

, Jane Doe <oceanlilly_csu@y...> wrote:

> I don't believe things just because a doctor or anyone just says

something.I'm a critical thinker and that is precisely why I asked

for data, because some docs and their so-called research are so full

of crap, that's why I need to see this stuff for myself!

>

> I was anorexic and became dependent on enemas and now I have to eat

tons of fiber just to poop like a normal adult. If most peeps ate all

the fiber I do, they'd be sitting on the crapper all day long---lol!

> As for alternative doctors somehow being " better " than those bad

main-streamers, it cuts both ways. I've had my fair share of both

kinds ad nausea.

> The idiot MD who put me on HGH was mainstream doc in the Midwest--

she is very bad news. Two other alternative Md's nearly killed me

with thyroid medication I did not need and HGH. If you think that

only mainstream docs give out dangerous meds and are the bad guys

while these alternative MD are safer and better, think again. Judge a

doctor as an individual.Alternative docs have their own bulls**

spinning and scamming just like any bad, uncaring worthless

mainstream doc too, they're pockets are just as deep too as is their

desire for $$.I saw how some sucked my friends dry knowing how

vulnerable they were. A bad doc is a bad doc, period.

> The key is finding a good doc who thinks OUTSIDE THE BOX, not

alternative versus mainstream. I'm going to the gyn dept. at GU next

week and the use identical hormones on women who need it. I feel much

better going to a place that uses the scientific method approach

while at the same time thinking outside the box. They are out there,

you just have to look.

>

> About docs and implants. I've been to both mainstream and

alternative docs who deny saline implants are harmful.In fact I know

of a few Psi's in on the HGH hormone action and they do implants too.

This HGH crapolla is a cash cow and people are getting sucked in too.

> The doctors I have seen personally who admit implants have

dangers, albeit, it's a small number, were mainstream

dermatologist.If you read hair loss connected to implants, you'll see

these are mainstream derms and rhumeys. It's posted on keratin.com.

>

> I'm not trying to offend anyone, I've just been sucked in and

screwed from both sides and I've learned not to stereotype doctors.

> Thanks for reading.

>

> Lynda <coss@p...> wrote:

> Sometimes I wonder why people still believe everything docs say

after what

> they did to us with implants.

>

> The alternative medical establishment is well founded in its

> beliefs. Check out the alternative sources. I avoid docs most of

the time

> as they are the reason I was sick in the first place.

>

> I am sure that most docs would tell you that lots of natural things

are

> bad. Even my oncologist scoffs at my many nutrients. But, when I

don't

> take them for 3-4 days, my fatigue just overwhelms me, and a day of

taking

> them again brings me out of it.

>

> I am sure you can research enemas. Patty may have info.

>

> Lynda

>

> At 05:04 PM 5/27/2004, you wrote:

> >Lynda:

> >Hi. I'd like to see the medical data on enemas.Do you know where I

can

> >read some?

> > I don't know much about them but all doctors I have been too are

opposed

> > to ememas except for corrective constipation and that should only

be done

> > very rarely. Colonics and enemas create dependancy.

> >Sounds like you eat very healthy, congrats!

> >

> >Lynda wrote:

> >Well, I think that many need the coffee enemas to detox, so I

don't totally

> >agree with you. But I agree about the diet and the anti-

perspirants. Some

> >think breast cancer comes from those. I use natural deodorants

from the

> >health food store, eat lots of good fruits and veggies, lots of

fiber, and

> >drink lots and lots of reverse osmosis filtered water. I eat free

range

> >meat in moderation. Garlic is GREAT for candida. Avoiding sugar

and white

> >starches and dairy was the most important part of my detox. Also, I

> >avoided caffeine, alcohol, and I don't smoke. Keeping my diet

extra clean

> >and organic for a couple of years probably saved my life.

> >

> >Colonics can help when people are first detoxing. I would not

recommend

> >them on a continuing basis.

> >

> >I found a cereal at Vitamin Cottage that has 9 grams of fiber per

serving,

> >it is called Familia and is a muesli. Good way to start the

morning with

> >some fresh fruit. Also, most health experts say to juice the

veggies, but

> >eat whole fruit, less sugar, more fiber.

> >

> >At 04:28 PM 5/27/2004, you wrote:

> > >LOL! Sorry, this cracked me up. I'm just tried to picture this

event in my

> > >mind.....lol

> >

May 28, 2004

I couldnt have said it better myself!!!! I have found most MD's make money by running test that you dont need and ND's off of selling you products you really dont need. I'm glad I found one I can finally trust.

VickieJane Doe <oceanlilly_csu@...> wrote: