Guest guest Posted September 7, 2008 Report Share Posted September 7, 2008 Thank you . Boy, is this post gonna open up a debate... So I guess I will jump into the fray immediately. Considering my close proximity to my good friend Dale , I will look both ways very carefully for awhile before I cross the street.... Obviously, the debate is what the " stones " are. To me it does not matter. The proof is in the pudding (even though it may dissolve at room temperature). The questions of import for me are things like; " do you feel better? " , " Did your quality of life improve? " , " have the symptoms of gallbladder dis-ease and other maladies improved? " , etc. But of course other questions now come up... If they melt at room temperature, what will they do at 98.6? How did they form in that environment in the first place? Let me posit some hypotheses. I do not purport these true, just up for thought and discussion. First, a couple of observations... There seem to be several types of stones that people pass. Most are these greenish, and I will call them " blobs " , but some tend to be whitish to brownish and definitely " calcified " . Some is little sand or gravel like and dark. So here goes... Maybe the calcified and dark kind and sands are actually " gallstones " or crepitus and the green blobs, which are the majority of what people pass, are indeed some type of " saponification " . If this is true, it would not necessarily mean that you were doing nothing with the flush in regards to the green blobs. The fact that they separate out into layers would tend to sway towards the saponification camp but the fact that one layer is " dark and oily " would suggest that there is something besides olive oil in it. The only way that I can get olive oil to become dark is to forget my pan on the stove. I have much experience in these matters. In fact, when it comes to leaving a pan on the stove, I claim myself an expert. The other layer is " green and consisting of solids " . Now keep in mind that this was put in at the top of the alimentary canal. In order for any of the olive oil/lemon juice combination to go through your gallbladder it must travel one of 2 paths. Either it must be assimilated, enter the blood stream, filtered out by the liver, and then dumped (by the liver) in the form of bile, or it must pass through the stomach to the upper duodenum, and then travel backwards up the common bile duct, then up the gallbladder duct to the gallbladder. Keep in mind that the latter path from the common bile duct up the gallbladder duct is the normal path of bile. Bile does not flow linearly down from the liver to the gallbladder. It travels from the liver down the bile duct to where the gallbladder duct meets the common bile duct and then is " 'sucked up " into the gallbladder. So for me, and I know that others will be of different mind, The true formation of the blobs, not the other type of stones, does not matter. The color of the dark brown layer and the solids in the green layer indicate the removal of other material than that God awful olive oil and lemon juice mixture that I ingested 12 hours ago. Maybe the blobs are mainly olive oil and potentially lemon juice, with a little bit of foreign material (this by the way could be from the bowels not from the gallbladder). If so, I am still eliminating other material than I put in. This would explain why people many times need to do several to many flushes before they have full relief from their symptoms. Maybe we are dissolving the " gallstones " bit by little bit... If so, will you stop doing flushes? Or continue with a new vigor, understanding that it may be a slow but positive process, kinda like getting through life at times? Always, in all ways, -Dave My Liver Cleanse. Dear All, I recently did a 'Liver Flush' and the resulting gall stones are on show in the Photos section in the 'rsbonati' file. There were so many stones passed that I only photograph the large ones. I had softened up the stones by drinking apple juice for two days prior to the cleanse. Note should be made of the fact that the stones were passed over a 15 hour period, a few at a time, except for the first batch which produced about thirty. The stones had a tendency to 'melt' at room temperature so it would be best to keep them in a fridge if you want to photograph or display them later. By day three all of the stones had melted to produce about 100 ml of liquids which divided into two separate layers, one dark brown and oily; the other one is green and consists of solids. Has anybody performed analyses of these layers? Best regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2008 Report Share Posted September 7, 2008 > The stones had a tendency to > 'melt' at room temperature so it would be best to keep them in a > fridge > > If you don't want them to " melt " - keep them in the freezer. Amber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2008 Report Share Posted September 7, 2008 good post Dave..(your reply about what the stones really are!) ajd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 Dear Dave, thanks for your interesting and well considered response. I am not the first person to find that the stones melted as I remember reading that it was advisable to keep the stones in a jar in the fridge with a suitable warning about not eating the contents. Two of my friends here in Xian, China who did the 'Liver Flush' also report that their stones melted, so I take it that it is normal behaviour. Given that I was interested in photographing the stones I failed to keep them in a fridge which with hindsight was a mistake. In order to aid photographing them it is necessary to avoid them sticking together so I recommend storage in a fridge rather than a freezer. This was my third 'Liver Flush' but the number and volume of stones passed far exceeded the previous two times. I had been diagnosed as having a 'fatty liver' and suffered from high blood pressure. Following the flush the fattiness completely disappeared from my liver and my blood pressure markedly improved and is still far better three months later. The reason as to why the stones melt is pretty important and I hope that someone will be able to provide a proper explanation. Note should be made of the following facts. 1. The melting point of cholesterol is 165 degrees C (about 320 degrees F). 2. Once passed the stones are in contact with air, sunlight and bacteria. Examination of the photographs of my stones clearly shows that the larger ones are composed of many small stones which have been compressed/grown together. The stones were pretty hard. I do believe for one minute that those stones were the result of a 'saponification' process involving the lemon/apple juice, olive oil as they were far too hard and obviously older than a few days. Sadly, I do not have the necessary equipment or suitable contacts to thoroughly examine the gallstones. I will be going back to England in a few days and will do my forth Flush soon after my arrival. My view is that the Flushes should be repeated until no more stones are passed. Then repeated annually as part of the Spring cleaning process. If anybody can add to this discussion with their views and/or stone analyses I would be most grateful. Best regards, 2008/9/7 Dave Shelden <wholehealthawareness@...> > Thank you . Boy, is this post gonna open up a debate... So I > guess I will jump into the fray immediately. Considering my close proximity > to my good friend Dale , I will look both ways very carefully for > awhile before I cross the street.... > > Obviously, the debate is what the " stones " are. To me it does not matter. > The proof is in the pudding (even though it may dissolve at room > temperature). The questions of import for me are things like; " do you feel > better? " , " Did your quality of life improve? " , " have the symptoms of > gallbladder dis-ease and other maladies improved? " , etc. > > But of course other questions now come up... If they melt at room > temperature, what will they do at 98.6? How did they form in that > environment in the first place? > > Let me posit some hypotheses. I do not purport these true, just up for > thought and discussion. First, a couple of observations... There seem to be > several types of stones that people pass. Most are these greenish, and I > will call them " blobs " , but some tend to be whitish to brownish and > definitely " calcified " . Some is little sand or gravel like and dark. > > So here goes... Maybe the calcified and dark kind and sands are actually > " gallstones " or crepitus and the green blobs, which are the majority of what > people pass, are indeed some type of " saponification " . If this is true, it > would not necessarily mean that you were doing nothing with the flush in > regards to the green blobs. The fact that they separate out into layers > would tend to sway towards the saponification camp but the fact that one > layer is " dark and oily " would suggest that there is something besides olive > oil in it. The only way that I can get olive oil to become dark is to forget > my pan on the stove. I have much experience in these matters. In fact, when > it comes to leaving a pan on the stove, I claim myself an expert. The other > layer is " green and consisting of solids " . Now keep in mind that this was > put in at the top of the alimentary canal. In order for any of the olive > oil/lemon juice combination to go through your gallbladder it must travel > one of 2 paths. Either it must be assimilated, enter the blood stream, > filtered out by the liver, and then dumped (by the liver) in the form of > bile, or it must pass through the stomach to the upper duodenum, and then > travel backwards up the common bile duct, then up the gallbladder duct to > the gallbladder. Keep in mind that the latter path from the common bile duct > up the gallbladder duct is the normal path of bile. Bile does not flow > linearly down from the liver to the gallbladder. It travels from the liver > down the bile duct to where the gallbladder duct meets the common bile duct > and then is " 'sucked up " into the gallbladder. > > So for me, and I know that others will be of different mind, The true > formation of the blobs, not the other type of stones, does not matter. The > color of the dark brown layer and the solids in the green layer indicate the > removal of other material than that God awful olive oil and lemon juice > mixture that I ingested 12 hours ago. Maybe the blobs are mainly olive oil > and potentially lemon juice, with a little bit of foreign material (this by > the way could be from the bowels not from the gallbladder). If so, I am > still eliminating other material than I put in. This would explain why > people many times need to do several to many flushes before they have full > relief from their symptoms. Maybe we are dissolving the " gallstones " bit by > little bit... > > If so, will you stop doing flushes? Or continue with a new vigor, > understanding that it may be a slow but positive process, kinda like getting > through life at times? > > Always, in all ways, > > -Dave > > My Liver Cleanse. > > Dear All, > > I recently did a 'Liver Flush' and the resulting gall stones are > on show in the Photos section in the 'rsbonati' file. There were so > many stones passed that I only photograph the large ones. > > I had softened up the stones by drinking apple juice for two days > prior to the cleanse. Note should be made of the fact that the stones > were passed over a 15 hour period, a few at a time, except for the > first batch which produced about thirty. The stones had a tendency to > 'melt' at room temperature so it would be best to keep them in a > fridge if you want to photograph or display them later. > > By day three all of the stones had melted to produce about 100 ml > of liquids which divided into two separate layers, one dark brown and > oily; the other one is green and consists of solids. > > Has anybody performed analyses of these layers? > > Best regards, > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 i agree with dave.  composition of the gallstone is but trivial. what is good about the flush is that it made our lives less stressful because the pain does go away. My stones were as big as an inch long. pix in our group.  i want to share about what i noticed about the stones.  when i dont use any epsom salts the stones were shiny dark green blobs. but when epsom salt is used. the stones were now coated with white as our term calcified stones. carlo  From: Bonati <rsbonati@...> Subject: Re: My Liver Cleanse. gallstones Date: Monday, September 8, 2008, 12:47 PM Dear Dave, thanks for your interesting and well considered response. I am not the first person to find that the stones melted as I remember reading that it was advisable to keep the stones in a jar in the fridge with a suitable warning about not eating the contents. Two of my friends here in Xian, China who did the 'Liver Flush' also report that their stones melted, so I take it that it is normal behaviour. Given that I was interested in photographing the stones I failed to keep them in a fridge which with hindsight was a mistake. In order to aid photographing them it is necessary to avoid them sticking together so I recommend storage in a fridge rather than a freezer. This was my third 'Liver Flush' but the number and volume of stones passed far exceeded the previous two times. I had been diagnosed as having a 'fatty liver' and suffered from high blood pressure. Following the flush the fattiness completely disappeared from my liver and my blood pressure markedly improved and is still far better three months later. The reason as to why the stones melt is pretty important and I hope that someone will be able to provide a proper explanation. Note should be made of the following facts. 1. The melting point of cholesterol is 165 degrees C (about 320 degrees F). 2. Once passed the stones are in contact with air, sunlight and bacteria. Examination of the photographs of my stones clearly shows that the larger ones are composed of many small stones which have been compressed/grown together. The stones were pretty hard. I do believe for one minute that those stones were the result of a 'saponification' process involving the lemon/apple juice, olive oil as they were far too hard and obviously older than a few days. Sadly, I do not have the necessary equipment or suitable contacts to thoroughly examine the gallstones. I will be going back to England in a few days and will do my forth Flush soon after my arrival. My view is that the Flushes should be repeated until no more stones are passed. Then repeated annually as part of the Spring cleaning process. If anybody can add to this discussion with their views and/or stone analyses I would be most grateful. Best regards, 2008/9/7 Dave Shelden <wholehealthawarenes s@...> > Thank you . Boy, is this post gonna open up a debate... So I > guess I will jump into the fray immediately. Considering my close proximity > to my good friend Dale , I will look both ways very carefully for > awhile before I cross the street.... > > Obviously, the debate is what the " stones " are. To me it does not matter. > The proof is in the pudding (even though it may dissolve at room > temperature) . The questions of import for me are things like; " do you feel > better? " , " Did your quality of life improve? " , " have the symptoms of > gallbladder dis-ease and other maladies improved? " , etc. > > But of course other questions now come up... If they melt at room > temperature, what will they do at 98.6? How did they form in that > environment in the first place? > > Let me posit some hypotheses. I do not purport these true, just up for > thought and discussion. First, a couple of observations. .. There seem to be > several types of stones that people pass. Most are these greenish, and I > will call them " blobs " , but some tend to be whitish to brownish and > definitely " calcified " . Some is little sand or gravel like and dark. > > So here goes... Maybe the calcified and dark kind and sands are actually > " gallstones " or crepitus and the green blobs, which are the majority of what > people pass, are indeed some type of " saponification " . If this is true, it > would not necessarily mean that you were doing nothing with the flush in > regards to the green blobs. The fact that they separate out into layers > would tend to sway towards the saponification camp but the fact that one > layer is " dark and oily " would suggest that there is something besides olive > oil in it. The only way that I can get olive oil to become dark is to forget > my pan on the stove. I have much experience in these matters. In fact, when > it comes to leaving a pan on the stove, I claim myself an expert. The other > layer is " green and consisting of solids " . Now keep in mind that this was > put in at the top of the alimentary canal. In order for any of the olive > oil/lemon juice combination to go through your gallbladder it must travel > one of 2 paths. Either it must be assimilated, enter the blood stream, > filtered out by the liver, and then dumped (by the liver) in the form of > bile, or it must pass through the stomach to the upper duodenum, and then > travel backwards up the common bile duct, then up the gallbladder duct to > the gallbladder. Keep in mind that the latter path from the common bile duct > up the gallbladder duct is the normal path of bile. Bile does not flow > linearly down from the liver to the gallbladder. It travels from the liver > down the bile duct to where the gallbladder duct meets the common bile duct > and then is " 'sucked up " into the gallbladder. > > So for me, and I know that others will be of different mind, The true > formation of the blobs, not the other type of stones, does not matter. The > color of the dark brown layer and the solids in the green layer indicate the > removal of other material than that God awful olive oil and lemon juice > mixture that I ingested 12 hours ago. Maybe the blobs are mainly olive oil > and potentially lemon juice, with a little bit of foreign material (this by > the way could be from the bowels not from the gallbladder) . If so, I am > still eliminating other material than I put in. This would explain why > people many times need to do several to many flushes before they have full > relief from their symptoms. Maybe we are dissolving the " gallstones " bit by > little bit... > > If so, will you stop doing flushes? Or continue with a new vigor, > understanding that it may be a slow but positive process, kinda like getting > through life at times? > > Always, in all ways, > > -Dave > > My Liver Cleanse. > > Dear All, > > I recently did a 'Liver Flush' and the resulting gall stones are > on show in the Photos section in the 'rsbonati' file. There were so > many stones passed that I only photograph the large ones. > > I had softened up the stones by drinking apple juice for two days > prior to the cleanse. Note should be made of the fact that the stones > were passed over a 15 hour period, a few at a time, except for the > first batch which produced about thirty. The stones had a tendency to > 'melt' at room temperature so it would be best to keep them in a > fridge if you want to photograph or display them later. > > By day three all of the stones had melted to produce about 100 ml > of liquids which divided into two separate layers, one dark brown and > oily; the other one is green and consists of solids. > > Has anybody performed analyses of these layers? > > Best regards, > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 Thanks for the additional info . Everyone, please keep in mind that I am not only not saying that the " stones " are worthless but am one of the greatest proponents of the flushes. Their value is unquestionable in light of the positive effects that the vast majority experience. While I am not sure of the exact melting point of cholesterol, it does seem to be in the 150 degree C range. Since the vast majority of gallstones in western culture tend to be " cholesterol stones " the decomposition at room temperature would again put the cholesterol composition of what was past in doubt. If your friends there in China are of Asian decent, their main type of gallstones is a bit different being of the " billirubin " type. The fact that yours were rather hard is different than most of the " green blobs " past by most people which tend to be soft. The main proof of the value of the flushes rests in the fact that the fatty nature of your liver disappeared and your blood pressure went down. This, as far as I am concerned makes the ongoing debate of what the " stones " are composed of a moot point. Who cares? I do not know if the photos of Dale gallstones are still available in the archives but Dale sent them to me after his first flush over a decade ago and they were not green blobs and were identical in appearance to stones removed in resections of gallbladders. If the pictures are not still up, I am sure someone can coax Dale (who is a moderator on this group) into reposting them. Again, the fact that these " stones " form in an environment of 98.6 but then dissolve in an environment of maybe 75 is of very curious nature. Most likely points to the dissolution being of some other factor than cholesterol. It is also apparent to me from the experience of both clients and students that the benefit of repeated flushing even after the point of no further elimination of " stones " is of great importance. One quick example: This was a Native American (they as Hispanic have a far greater tendency by the way) woman who was having a plethora of both physical and psychological problems (mid thirties). She performed ten flushes in a row, once a week. She past material for the first 4 flushes, the last 6 were completely clear. By the end of the 10 (but not by the end of the 4) all of both her physical complaints and mental issues had resolved. By the way, the mental issues were bad enough that she was under ordered evaluation. This must not be construed as " all physical ailments and psychological problems are due to liver/gallbladder disease " but it does illustrate the potential benefits of these uncomfortable, inconvenient, medical establishment unacceptable, procedures. Always, in all ways, -Dave My Liver Cleanse. > > Dear All, > > I recently did a 'Liver Flush' and the resulting gall stones are > on show in the Photos section in the 'rsbonati' file. There were so > many stones passed that I only photograph the large ones. > > I had softened up the stones by drinking apple juice for two days > prior to the cleanse. Note should be made of the fact that the stones > were passed over a 15 hour period, a few at a time, except for the > first batch which produced about thirty. The stones had a tendency to > 'melt' at room temperature so it would be best to keep them in a > fridge if you want to photograph or display them later. > > By day three all of the stones had melted to produce about 100 ml > of liquids which divided into two separate layers, one dark brown and > oily; the other one is green and consists of solids. > > Has anybody performed analyses of these layers? > > Best regards, > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 Dear All, the following was contributed by Spirit to a www.curezone.com forum and seems to cover the subject very well. The only question left in my mind is do that gall stones that have been obtained surgically need to be preserved? Best regards, ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The only significant difference (beside temperature) between conditions outside and inside of human intestines is... guess what? OXYGEN! This is what we know about cholesterol stones - stones that 90% of us pass while flushing liver: - stones never melt inside human intestines (people have been passing stones 24 hours or sometimes even 72 hours after drinking olive oil) - stones get exposed to bacteria, virus and yeast while passing through human intestines - stones are not water soluble - stones always dissolve in alcohol because cholesterol is alcohol soluble - stones almost always melt when exposed to air (within 24h) - stones can be preserved by freezing - stones can be preserved in formaldehide (at room temperature) - if we leave stones floating on top of water (at room temperature) - stones would almost always melt - if you wash your stones with cold and clean water, and then you expose them to the direct sunlight (not too hot sun - winter sun) stones dry and remain hard - resistant to air and room temperature - oxygen can affect the way bacteria behave We know that OXYGEN affects stones, but we don't know if it is just a chemical reaction or if it is a bio-chemical reaction (a reaction resulting from bilogical activity like presence of some bacteria or yeast). Considering these 3 facts: - washing stones in clean water and exposing them to the direct sunlight is sometimes sufficient to prevent melting (but not always). Some stones are hard enough, and are very easy to keep and preserve, but other stones are just very soft and easily melt no matter what we do. - keeping stones floating on water almost always results in melting of the stones - stones can be preserved by placing in formaldehide - sunlight kills bacteria and yeast These are the facts, the results of observation of stones from hundreds of different people. Based on those facts, we can conclude with some degree of certainty: *Stones are melting because of biological activity due to the presence of some bacteria or yeast.* To further test hypothesis that stones are melting because of biological activity, I urge you to test your stones: - keep your stones at the room temperature, inside water containing some strong natural antibiotic, like for example herbal tincture made from: grapefruit seed extract, tobacco leaves, cloves, wormwood, thuja, salvia officinalis, black walnut, ... - try to preserve your stones inside vinegar - try to preserve your stones inside lemon juice - add citric acid into water and try to preserve your stones by keeping them inside - try to analyze melted stones under microscope, looking for live bacteria or any other life sign Please report your results to this forum so that we can update our understanding of stones composition, chemistry and biochemistry. Best of health Spirit 2008/9/8 Dave Shelden <wholehealthawareness@...> > Thanks for the additional info . Everyone, please keep in mind > that I am not only not saying that the " stones " are worthless but am one of > the greatest proponents of the flushes. Their value is unquestionable in > light of the positive effects that the vast majority experience. While I am > not sure of the exact melting point of cholesterol, it does seem to be in > the 150 degree C range. Since the vast majority of gallstones in western > culture tend to be " cholesterol stones " the decomposition at room > temperature would again put the cholesterol composition of what was past in > doubt. If your friends there in China are of Asian decent, their main type > of gallstones is a bit different being of the " billirubin " type. The fact > that yours were rather hard is different than most of the " green blobs " past > by most people which tend to be soft. > > The main proof of the value of the flushes rests in the fact that the fatty > nature of your liver disappeared and your blood pressure went down. This, as > far as I am concerned makes the ongoing debate of what the " stones " are > composed of a moot point. Who cares? I do not know if the photos of Dale > gallstones are still available in the archives but Dale sent them > to me after his first flush over a decade ago and they were not green blobs > and were identical in appearance to stones removed in resections of > gallbladders. If the pictures are not still up, I am sure someone can coax > Dale (who is a moderator on this group) into reposting them. > > Again, the fact that these " stones " form in an environment of 98.6 but then > dissolve in an environment of maybe 75 is of very curious nature. Most > likely points to the dissolution being of some other factor than > cholesterol. > > It is also apparent to me from the experience of both clients and students > that the benefit of repeated flushing even after the point of no further > elimination of " stones " is of great importance. > > One quick example: This was a Native American (they as Hispanic have a far > greater tendency by the way) woman who was having a plethora of both > physical and psychological problems (mid thirties). She performed ten > flushes in a row, once a week. She past material for the first 4 flushes, > the last 6 were completely clear. By the end of the 10 (but not by the end > of the 4) all of both her physical complaints and mental issues had > resolved. By the way, the mental issues were bad enough that she was under > ordered evaluation. > > This must not be construed as " all physical ailments and psychological > problems are due to liver/gallbladder disease " but it does illustrate the > potential benefits of these uncomfortable, inconvenient, medical > establishment unacceptable, procedures. > > > Always, in all ways, > > -Dave > My Liver Cleanse. > > > > Dear All, > > > > I recently did a 'Liver Flush' and the resulting gall stones are > > on show in the Photos section in the 'rsbonati' file. There were so > > many stones passed that I only photograph the large ones. > > > > I had softened up the stones by drinking apple juice for two days > > prior to the cleanse. Note should be made of the fact that the stones > > were passed over a 15 hour period, a few at a time, except for the > > first batch which produced about thirty. The stones had a tendency to > > 'melt' at room temperature so it would be best to keep them in a > > fridge if you want to photograph or display them later. > > > > By day three all of the stones had melted to produce about 100 ml > > of liquids which divided into two separate layers, one dark brown and > > oily; the other one is green and consists of solids. > > > > Has anybody performed analyses of these layers? > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 Off-topic a bit, but a question for Dave (or anyone else)... I use to brag about how I never get a cold. It has been many years since I got a cold or fever. I thought that this was a good thing. However, I just recently learned that this is not good. It is a sign that my immune system is not working properly. In fact I understand that this state is very serious and exposes one to very serious illness. My theory is that due to my long-standing candida (did not know until recently about candida), that the candida is the main culprit on my immune system. I had a hair analysis performed recently that showed that I have high zinc. I had read on the curezone that high zinc in hair means low zinc in the body. So I am going to start on some zinc supplementation. I know that zinc is suppose to help with both candida and the immune system. What other things can I do to strengthen my immune system? Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 Amber, thanks for the info. I will definitely consider it. Have you taken it or do you know of anyone that has taken it? > > > > What other things can I do to strengthen my immune system? Any > > thoughts are appreciated. > > > > Thanks so much! > > > > > > Here's a website for you to check out: http://www.nsc24.com/questions.htm > > Beta-Glucans is specifically meant for strengthening the immune system. > > Amber > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 Dave, I am a little confused. You say that colds seem to occur when under immune suppression. I am concerned because I have NOT had a cold in a long time. But my assumption is because I am under immune suppression. It seems just the opposite of what you are telling me. Can you please help me sort this out? > > Hi Fred, > > Yes, there is a very well developed school of thought that says colds are a natural periodic cleansing reaction, not viral (the supposed common cold virus has never been isolated). They do seem to occur though when under immune suppression. The Traditional Oriental Medicine view is that it is a cold external attack and can be brought on by an excess of cold or wind (put a coat on Junior, or you'll catch your death of cold). This would tend towards the infectious theory. > > There are several ways to approach immune issues: Direct attack of an invader with substances that are toxic or inhibitive to the pathogen like goldenseal, cinchona, black walnut, quassia, etc. Things that are " stimulative " or increasing of immune response such as the polysaccharides (including the beta glucans mentioned by Amber) or homeopathics. and last but not least the adaptogenic compounds that are long term supportive and building to the functions such as astragalus, eleuthro, cat's claw, etc. The latter being by far the best method over the long term, but rarely effective over the short term. Of the 315 different herbs that I cary and use, if I only could use one, it would be astragalus. This is an herb that most everyone could take everyday for the rest of their life and it would be nothing but good. Eleuthro, cat's claw, ginseng, suma, are all other good choices. The medicinal mushrooms such as ganoderma (ling chi or reishi) cordyceps, shiitake, maitake, etc are also excellent choices. > > Zinc is essential for immune function. The deficiency of such is pandemic in this country. It is also essential for the function of your tastebuds. Serum tests are completely inaccurate because zinc is being amassed to the area of injury within milliseconds. So when you stick a needle in by the time they start to draw the syringe back there is an abnormally high amount of zinc in the blood at that location. The most accurate test is actually a taste test. You hold zinc sulphate solution in your mouth for a period of time and the taste you endure is indicative of your levels. This is available from health food stores or supplement suppliers. > > Also of note there is a very obscure herb from New Zealand that at times can be the missing link in candida issues called psuedowinteria colorata (also known as horopito) available from only one company (they have a contract with the government) called Kolorex (company is Forrest herbs if I remember). > > All the best, -Dave > Re: My Liver Cleanse. > > > Off-topic a bit, but a question for Dave (or anyone else)... > > I use to brag about how I never get a cold. It has been many years > since I got a cold or fever. I thought that this was a good thing. > > However, I just recently learned that this is not good. It is a sign > that my immune system is not working properly. In fact I understand > that this state is very serious and exposes one to very serious illness. > > My theory is that due to my long-standing candida (did not know until > recently about candida), that the candida is the main culprit on my > immune system. > > I had a hair analysis performed recently that showed that I have high > zinc. I had read on the curezone that high zinc in hair means low zinc > in the body. So I am going to start on some zinc supplementation. I > know that zinc is suppose to help with both candida and the immune > system. > > What other things can I do to strengthen my immune system? Any > thoughts are appreciated. > > Thanks so much! > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 I know that everyone's situation is different. But if you are looking to improve your immune system, would it take days, weeks, or months to see improvement from this product? Just looking for a general idea of what to expect. > > > > > > Amber, thanks for the info. I will definitely consider it. Have you > > taken it or do you know of anyone that has taken it? > > > I have taken it and it's discussed on a TV show I watch: Know the Cause! > Their website is: > www.knowthecause.com You can get lots of information there. > > Amber > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 It depends on what you think is healthy. At a minimum, I have candida, thyroid issues, and food allergies (probably all linked). But I have not had a cold or fever in many years. s Moritz states in one of his books that it is a major cause of concern if that is the case. You are at risk for serious diseases. I also have one of Donna Gate's books on candida. I think that she says the same thing. I stopped in and chatted with the owner of my local healthfood store the other day. He said that he had heard the same thing. I used to get sinus infections before I went dairy-free. But nothing since then. Perhaps, I have been lucky or just plain healthy when it comes to fending off colds. But candida is very hard on the immune system and I have had candida for MANY years without knowing what it was. So my GUESS is that the candida has killed my immune system. > > > > > Dave, I am a little confused. You say that colds seem to occur when > > under immune suppression. I am concerned because I have NOT had a > > cold in a long time. But my assumption is because I am under immune > > suppression. > > I used to have horrible colds, however, I haven't had one for probably over > 25 years now. So I must assume that my immune system is functioning pretty > well. I don't understand why you would think you have an immune problem if > you are healthy. > > Amber > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 Fred, I never get sick anymore either. And obviously in my case that isnt a good thing. Initially I was getting colds all the time indicating that my immune system was in trouble. That was 17 years ago. If your immune system is so compromised due to infectious agents and the resulting toxins then you will not be able to mount enough of an antibody defense to produce the characteristic signs and symptoms of a cold. These signs (sniffles etc) are an indication of healthy white bood cell activity but if you get colds which last for long periods of time or happen more than a handful of times a year then this could be a sign that your in trouble. Some people get put 'off' when infection is mentioned as one of the possible causes of their illness. But the truth is that even healthy people have many of the infections that sick people do. Its just that sick people will have more organism breeding going in. Its this activity which causes the release of neurotoxins www.chronicneurotoxins.com which can cause even more damage than the actual organism itself. One of the best ways to help your body overcome candida is to eliminate the mercury and lead. I have yet to find someone who had heavy metal contamination and no candida problem. The candida is probably causing leaky gut syndrome to occur by perforating the mucosal layer in the small intestine (there is also cellular dialation occuring due to ammonia which candida generates). This allows for the leaking of partially digested food particles to enter the blood stream. This is not good, not only can your body not utilize these partially digested particles as energy but it also doesnt supply any nutrients for your cells. Fred you can look into Circulating Immune Complexes for more detailed information. Basically these things float around in our bodies requiring the immune system to attack and drag it out of the body. However this leaking of CIC's happen far too often and numerous in someone with Candida, so that over works the immune system. Leaving insufficient numbers of white blood cells to deal with the infections themselves. Also it was hypothesized in a research article that white blood cells have trouble traversing this heavily particulate liaden blood stream (full with CIC's) which slows down their response time making your immune system more sluggish and slow to respond to infection. I'll post what is touted as a cancer cure for you and anyone else that cares to read. As some of you know that many types of cancer can be caused by candida, this protocol supposedly eliminates both candida and has anti-tumor effects as well. I haven't tried this yet as I dont have cancer nor do I have candida anymore, but I still have other types of infections in my bowels. I know due to my symptoms of inflammation and poor digestive flow etc. Brad ps also try to stay open to other types of infections as Candida usually comes with a collony of friends, which may end up not being friendly to you... > > > > Hi Fred, > > > > Yes, there is a very well developed school of thought that > says colds are a natural periodic cleansing reaction, not viral (the > supposed common cold virus has never been isolated). They do seem to > occur though when under immune suppression. The Traditional Oriental > Medicine view is that it is a cold external attack and can be brought > on by an excess of cold or wind (put a coat on Junior, or you'll > catch your death of cold). This would tend towards the infectious > theory. > > > > There are several ways to approach immune issues: Direct > attack of an invader with substances that are toxic or inhibitive to > the pathogen like goldenseal, cinchona, black walnut, quassia, etc. > Things that are " stimulative " or increasing of immune response such > as the polysaccharides (including the beta glucans mentioned by > Amber) or homeopathics. and last but not least the adaptogenic > compounds that are long term supportive and building to the functions > such as astragalus, eleuthro, cat's claw, etc. The latter being by > far the best method over the long term, but rarely effective over the > short term. Of the 315 different herbs that I cary and use, if I > only could use one, it would be astragalus. This is an herb that > most everyone could take everyday for the rest of their life and it > would be nothing but good. Eleuthro, cat's claw, ginseng, suma, are > all other good choices. The medicinal mushrooms such as ganoderma > (ling chi or reishi) cordyceps, shiitake, maitake, etc are also > excellent choices. > > > > Zinc is essential for immune function. The deficiency of such > is pandemic in this country. It is also essential for the function > of your tastebuds. Serum tests are completely inaccurate because > zinc is being amassed to the area of injury within milliseconds. So > when you stick a needle in by the time they start to draw the syringe > back there is an abnormally high amount of zinc in the blood at that > location. The most accurate test is actually a taste test. You hold > zinc sulphate solution in your mouth for a period of time and the > taste you endure is indicative of your levels. This is available > from health food stores or supplement suppliers. > > > > Also of note there is a very obscure herb from New Zealand > that at times can be the missing link in candida issues called > psuedowinteria colorata (also known as horopito) available from only > one company (they have a contract with the government) called Kolorex > (company is Forrest herbs if I remember). > > > > All the best, -Dave > > Re: My Liver Cleanse. > > > > > > Off-topic a bit, but a question for Dave (or anyone else)... > > > > I use to brag about how I never get a cold. It has been many > years > > since I got a cold or fever. I thought that this was a good thing. > > > > However, I just recently learned that this is not good. It is a > sign > > that my immune system is not working properly. In fact I > understand > > that this state is very serious and exposes one to very serious > illness. > > > > My theory is that due to my long-standing candida (did not know > until > > recently about candida), that the candida is the main culprit on > my > > immune system. > > > > I had a hair analysis performed recently that showed that I have > high > > zinc. I had read on the curezone that high zinc in hair means low > zinc > > in the body. So I am going to start on some zinc supplementation. > I > > know that zinc is suppose to help with both candida and the > immune > > system. > > > > What other things can I do to strengthen my immune system? Any > > thoughts are appreciated. > > > > Thanks so much! > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 Speaking of removing mercury. My osteopath had me do an unprovoked urine test. It came back relatively low. So he brushed it off. I had a hair analysis done (on my own) and it came back low to moderately low. The whole idea of testing for mercury is very controversial - non-provoked urine, provoked urine, hair analysis. What is effective and safe? Nobody agrees. Then, just recently I read where some think that the test results should be inverted. That is if you are eliminating a lot then you don't have much in you and vice versa. Enough to drive you crazy! I tend to think that I have more than is showing on the tests because I have not been able to whip candida yet and combine that with the fact that I had amalgams, vaccinations, and a mother loaded with mercury. Maybe the thing to do is bypass the testing thing a go straight to the detox phase! We all have mercury. It is just a matter of how much. > > > > > I never get sick anymore either. And obviously in my case that isnt a > > good thing. > > > That makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. I don't get sick any more > either and I consider it a blessing. > > > > One of the best ways to help your body overcome candida is to > > eliminate the mercury and lead.> >> Brad > > What about taking natural antifungals? Or prescription if it's that bad. > > Amber > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 Dave, what do you mean by non-invasive? Thanks. > > > > > > > > > I never get sick anymore either. And obviously in my case that > isnt a > > > good thing. > > > > > That makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. I don't get sick > any more > > either and I consider it a blessing. > > > > > > > One of the best ways to help your body overcome candida is to > > > eliminate the mercury and lead.> >> Brad > > > > What about taking natural antifungals? Or prescription if it's > that bad. > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 That does make sense. So the question becomes what has caused this? My guess is that some combination of mercury and candida are the primary culprits. But that is only a guess at this point. In addition to mercury removal and overcoming the candida, what would you recommend to improve my immune system? Thanks! > > > > > > > > > Dave, I am a little confused. You say that colds seem to occur when > > > under immune suppression. I am concerned because I have NOT had a > > > cold in a long time. But my assumption is because I am under immune > > > suppression. > > > > I used to have horrible colds, however, I haven't had one for > probably over > > 25 years now. So I must assume that my immune system is functioning > pretty > > well. I don't understand why you would think you have an immune > problem if > > you are healthy. > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 Any specific suggestions on the exercise? just walking vs aerobic vs. weight lifting?, light to moderate vs. heavy? I would guess that the wrong type may be ineffective or worse yet, counter-productive? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dave, I am a little confused. You say that colds seem to > occur when > > > > under immune suppression. I am concerned because I have NOT > had a > > > > cold in a long time. But my assumption is because I am under > immune > > > > suppression. > > > > > > I used to have horrible colds, however, I haven't had one for > > probably over > > > 25 years now. So I must assume that my immune system is > functioning > > pretty > > > well. I don't understand why you would think you have an immune > > problem if > > > you are healthy. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 This group had a discussion the other day about drinking water. But I am not sure that we came to a conclusion. I hate to bring it up again, but I will anyway! I have narrowed my choices to R/O and ionized. The ionized folks claim that R/O is too acidic and robs the body of minerals. Any thoughts on this? Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dave, I am a little confused. You say that colds seem to > > occur when > > > > > under immune suppression. I am concerned because I have NOT > > had a > > > > > cold in a long time. But my assumption is because I am > under > > immune > > > > > suppression. > > > > > > > > I used to have horrible colds, however, I haven't had one for > > > probably over > > > > 25 years now. So I must assume that my immune system is > > functioning > > > pretty > > > > well. I don't understand why you would think you have an > immune > > > problem if > > > > you are healthy. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 I never get sick anymore either. And obviously in my case that isnt a good thing. " That makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. I don't get sick any more either and I consider it a blessing. " I'm not surprised that you don't understand. You would have to be living with a severe immuno-suppressive organism to understand these things. One of the best ways to help your body overcome candida is to eliminate the mercury and lead.> >> Brad " What about taking natural antifungals? Or prescription if it's that bad. Amber " Yes Amber I never said not to take antifungals. In fact I posted an anti candida hot pepper and garlic combo in my very next posting... Antifungals are good for short term use while the true underlying reasons why candida is growing in the first place are uncovered. Many people try antifungals and only get temporary benefits or the anti fungal treatment is unsuccessful entirely so its important not to chase symptoms only. Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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