OFF TOPIC

[Guest guest]

I think that sublingual is the way to go. When I was hoping that I needed shots - many people told me the shots were made from 'sludge' - something like that. The sublingual are ususally cherry tasting.

[Guest guest]

http://www.clearbladder.com/dmannose.html?source=overture this is effective- I use to use d-mannos, but now I am on another supplement that contains d- mannose. I never use antibiotics anymore.... Do a d-mannose search and many sites show up....

[low dose naltrexone] OFF TOPIC

Someone wrote about D-Mannose with Cranberry for UTI's. I went to Solaray's web-site and can't find it. Any help would be appreciated! Also if anyone has any great things that help with UTI's, tips etc. Thanks............_________________________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi, I think Dr. Mercola's site has d'mannose for sale.

ine

--- Lori Grady <lorigrady214@...> wrote:

>

http://www.clearbladder.com/dmannose.html?source=overture

> this is effective- I use to use d-mannos, but now I

> am on another supplement that contains d- mannose. I

> never use antibiotics anymore.... Do a d-mannose

> search and many sites show up....

> [low dose naltrexone] OFF TOPIC

>

>

> Someone wrote about D-Mannose with Cranberry for

> UTI's. I went to Solaray's

> web-site and can't find it. Any help would be

> appreciated! Also if anyone

> has any great things that help with UTI's, tips

> etc.

> Thanks............

>

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Again, memory is gone, but I 'remember' something about (believe it or not)

Alka-Seltzer helping?

Every moment today is a new one....ha ha. over and over a...

[low dose naltrexone] OFF TOPIC

Someone wrote about D-Mannose with Cranberry for UTI's. I went to Solaray's web-site and can't find it. Any help would be appreciated! Also if anyone has any great things that help with UTI's, tips etc. Thanks............_________________________________________________________________Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

[Guest guest]

look up d-mannose and . He is the one who discovered this and it works like a magic bullet. Other supporting herbs for urinary tract health are pau d'arco, dandelion, red clover, urva ursa , white apple cider vinegar ( an inexpensive alternative) and stay away from coffee and silk panties until you get better. Hopefully the spelling on the last herb is right so you can look it up. I do all my stuff from memory, not books. I hope this helps. If not, e-mail me personally and I will get my reference bible out Good luck, Kathy

[low dose naltrexone] OFF TOPIC

Someone wrote about D-Mannose with Cranberry for UTI's. I went to Solaray's web-site and can't find it. Any help would be appreciated! Also if anyone has any great things that help with UTI's, tips etc. Thanks............_________________________________________________________________Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathy, My memory says uva ursi - big difference!!

But thanks for the quinine tip, will try that site.

Just ordered d-mannose on the Mercola site, you have

to search it and folow prompts.

ine

--- kathy lintzenich <mykittypaws@...> wrote:

> look up d-mannose and . He is the one

> who discovered this and it works like a magic

> bullet. Other supporting herbs for urinary tract

> health are pau d'arco, dandelion, red clover, urva

> ursa , white apple cider vinegar ( an inexpensive

> alternative) and stay away from coffee and silk

> panties until you get better. Hopefully the spelling

> on the last herb is right so you can look it up. I

> do all my stuff from memory, not books. I hope this

> helps. If not, e-mail me personally and I will get

> my reference bible out Good luck, Kathy

> [low dose naltrexone] OFF TOPIC

>

>

> Someone wrote about D-Mannose with Cranberry for

> UTI's. I went to Solaray's

> web-site and can't find it. Any help would be

> appreciated! Also if anyone

> has any great things that help with UTI's, tips

> etc.

> Thanks............

>

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger!

> Download today - it's FREE!

>

>

http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

>

>

>

>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

yES, AND IT TASTES REALLY BAD IN A TEA BUT IT IS SO GOOD FOR THE KIDNEYS! GOOD LUCK AND TAKE CARE!

[low dose naltrexone] OFF TOPIC> > > Someone wrote about D-Mannose with Cranberry for> UTI's. I went to Solaray's > web-site and can't find it. Any help would be> appreciated! Also if anyone > has any great things that help with UTI's, tips> etc. > Thanks............> > >_________________________________________________________________> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger!> Download today - it's FREE! > >http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/> > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------->

[Guest guest]

See http://www.em-probe.com

Reasonable priced medical device that has been proven in many studies

to heal both soft and hard tissue. FDA approved for fractures. I used

it to restore my heart function after damage from Novantrone. Also got

rid of the injection lumps, and lots of other minor injuries and pains.

It is $195 (most of these devices cost thousands) but I can arrange a

group discount price of $125 plus shipping. Contact me directly.

SammyJo

> dOES ANYONE IN THIS GROUP HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF A SUPPLEMENT OR DEVICE

THAT CAN HELP HEAL HERNIATIONS. I JUST FOUND OUT I HAVE A HERNIATION IN

MY NECK AND I HAVE TO STOP THE WEIGHTS BUT I STILL MUST CONTINUE MY

MASSAGE THERAPY PRACTICE SO ANY ADVICE WOULD BE APPRECIATED. YOU CAN E-

MAIL ME PERSONALLY. THANKS! Kathy

[Guest guest]

I just realized you answered my question earlier but would you e-mail me personally so I can order this? Thanks again! Kathy

[low dose naltrexone] Re: OFF TOPIC

See http://www.em-probe.comReasonable priced medical device that has been proven in many studies to heal both soft and hard tissue. FDA approved for fractures. I used it to restore my heart function after damage from Novantrone. Also got rid of the injection lumps, and lots of other minor injuries and pains. It is $195 (most of these devices cost thousands) but I can arrange a group discount price of $125 plus shipping. Contact me directly.SammyJo> dOES ANYONE IN THIS GROUP HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF A SUPPLEMENT OR DEVICE THAT CAN HELP HEAL HERNIATIONS. I JUST FOUND OUT I HAVE A HERNIATION IN MY NECK AND I HAVE TO STOP THE WEIGHTS BUT I STILL MUST CONTINUE MY MASSAGE THERAPY PRACTICE SO ANY ADVICE WOULD BE APPRECIATED. YOU CAN E-MAIL ME PERSONALLY. THANKS! Kathy

[Guest guest]

Francesca Skelton wrote:

Off topic (was: Ensuring safe canned foods)

Al: This is off topic.

We value your peer reviewed posts but it's not necessary or desirable

to post off topic ones or such technical studies as "the mating habits

of one- eyed CR'd fruit flies during spring hibernation" :-))) (e.g.

the more technical detailed ones that most of us probably dont read).

I understand the concern and many of Al's post I do not read after a

quick review but this seems to be normal. I would say personally that

one trait for longevity would be growing one's own food and learning

proper storage. I would say that growing one's own food is far superior

to organic for optimal nutrition. While it has nothing to do with CR it

is related to ON. BTW growing my own food is something I do not do

myself but am considering as part of my lifestyle, which I hope began

today. SO far so good!

IMHO

Positive Dennis

If anyone disagrees with this, discussion is welcome.

on 9/9/2005 1:24 PM, Al Pater at old542000@... wrote:

Hi All,

An excellent source for information for the prevention of food

poisoning due to

improper food processing may be found to be:

http://doityourself.com/canning/ensuringsafe.htm

Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@...

[Guest guest]

Francesca Skelton wrote:

Off topic (was: Ensuring safe canned foods)

Al: This is off topic.

We value your peer reviewed posts but it's not necessary or desirable

to post off topic ones or such technical studies as "the mating habits

of one- eyed CR'd fruit flies during spring hibernation" :-))) (e.g.

the more technical detailed ones that most of us probably dont read).

I understand the concern and many of Al's post I do not read after a

quick review but this seems to be normal. I would say personally that

one trait for longevity would be growing one's own food and learning

proper storage. I would say that growing one's own food is far superior

to organic for optimal nutrition. While it has nothing to do with CR it

is related to ON. BTW growing my own food is something I do not do

myself but am considering as part of my lifestyle, which I hope began

today. SO far so good!

IMHO

Positive Dennis

If anyone disagrees with this, discussion is welcome.

on 9/9/2005 1:24 PM, Al Pater at old542000@... wrote:

Hi All,

An excellent source for information for the prevention of food

poisoning due to

improper food processing may be found to be:

http://doityourself.com/canning/ensuringsafe.htm

Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@...

[Guest guest]

This post was about canning food. If I were to take a poll I wonder how many among us can our own food? I'll take a guess and say that none is closer to the correct answer than the answer that would make this a topic of interest to most of us.

on 9/9/2005 3:53 PM, Dennis De Jarnette at positivedennis@... wrote:

I understand the concern and many of Al's post I do not read after a quick review but this seems to be normal. I would say personally that one trait for longevity would be growing one's own food and learning proper storage. I would say that growing one's own food is far superior to organic for optimal nutrition. While it has nothing to do with CR it is related to ON. BTW growing my own food is something I do not do myself but am considering as part of my lifestyle, which I hope began today. SO far so good!

IMHO

Positive Dennis

[Guest guest]

This post was about canning food. If I were to take a poll I wonder how many among us can our own food? I'll take a guess and say that none is closer to the correct answer than the answer that would make this a topic of interest to most of us.

on 9/9/2005 3:53 PM, Dennis De Jarnette at positivedennis@... wrote:

I understand the concern and many of Al's post I do not read after a quick review but this seems to be normal. I would say personally that one trait for longevity would be growing one's own food and learning proper storage. I would say that growing one's own food is far superior to organic for optimal nutrition. While it has nothing to do with CR it is related to ON. BTW growing my own food is something I do not do myself but am considering as part of my lifestyle, which I hope began today. SO far so good!

IMHO

Positive Dennis

[Guest guest]

Believe it or not, I do can my own food, and I'm a guy!

I work in the agricultural industry, so I have access to lots of free

fruits (organic and conventional) that are great for canning whole and

also for canned preserves (jam). I can my own so that I may use

organic produce and so that my family has access to fruit preserves

that are not made with high-fructose corn syrup.

My favorite jam is made with a Black Splendor variety red-fleshed plum

that is high in anthocyanins and has proven anti-cancer properties,

based on research done by Dr Byrne at Texas A & M.

I didn't read Al's post very thoroughly because the stuff I can is

high-acid and not suseptible to the growth of anaerobic bacteria or

botulism, but I did not find it to be irrelevant. Lots of things

posted here may or may not interest me, but I only read what I want to.

I don't think there is any benefit in being hyper-sensitive about the

degree of relevancy of each and every posting. So far now we have

devoted about 4 separate " off topic " postings discussing whether or

not Al's single posting was off topic.

Dave

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: Francesca Skelton <fskelton@...>

Date: Fri Sep 9, 2005 1:06 pm

Subject: Re: [ ] Off topic

This post was about canning food. If I were to take a poll I wonder

how many among us can our own food? I'll take a guess and say that

none is closer to the correct answer than the answer that would make

this a topic of interest to most of us.

on 9/9/2005 3:53 PM, Dennis De Jarnette at

positivedennis@... wrote:

I understand the concern and many of Al's post I do not read after

a quick review but this seems to be normal. I would say personally

that one trait for longevity would be growing one's own food and

learning proper storage. I would say that growing one's own food is

far superior to organic for optimal nutrition. While it has nothing to

do with CR it is related to ON. BTW growing my own food is something I

do not do myself but am considering as part of my lifestyle, which I

hope began today. SO far so good!

IMHO

Positive Dennis

[Guest guest]

Believe it or not, I do can my own food, and I'm a guy!

I work in the agricultural industry, so I have access to lots of free

fruits (organic and conventional) that are great for canning whole and

also for canned preserves (jam). I can my own so that I may use

organic produce and so that my family has access to fruit preserves

that are not made with high-fructose corn syrup.

My favorite jam is made with a Black Splendor variety red-fleshed plum

that is high in anthocyanins and has proven anti-cancer properties,

based on research done by Dr Byrne at Texas A & M.

I didn't read Al's post very thoroughly because the stuff I can is

high-acid and not suseptible to the growth of anaerobic bacteria or

botulism, but I did not find it to be irrelevant. Lots of things

posted here may or may not interest me, but I only read what I want to.

I don't think there is any benefit in being hyper-sensitive about the

degree of relevancy of each and every posting. So far now we have

devoted about 4 separate " off topic " postings discussing whether or

not Al's single posting was off topic.

Dave

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: Francesca Skelton <fskelton@...>

Date: Fri Sep 9, 2005 1:06 pm

Subject: Re: [ ] Off topic

This post was about canning food. If I were to take a poll I wonder

how many among us can our own food? I'll take a guess and say that

none is closer to the correct answer than the answer that would make

this a topic of interest to most of us.

on 9/9/2005 3:53 PM, Dennis De Jarnette at

positivedennis@... wrote:

I understand the concern and many of Al's post I do not read after

a quick review but this seems to be normal. I would say personally

that one trait for longevity would be growing one's own food and

learning proper storage. I would say that growing one's own food is

far superior to organic for optimal nutrition. While it has nothing to

do with CR it is related to ON. BTW growing my own food is something I

do not do myself but am considering as part of my lifestyle, which I

hope began today. SO far so good!

IMHO

Positive Dennis

[Guest guest]

I believe some on the other list can food. I find my self double banged by Al Pater's posts since I try to follow two CR lists. Can't say that read many (any?).

I'm getting good at deleting, if this list becomes as bad as a coffee roasting list I was on, there always the obvious solution.

I appreciate your intent but you are trying to herd cats and this is the kinder gentler list after all....

Didn't you hear, stress (in moderation) is good for us, so Be well..

JR

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Francesca SkeltonSent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:07 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Off topicThis post was about canning food. If I were to take a poll I wonder how many among us can our own food? I'll take a guess and say that none is closer to the correct answer than the answer that would make this a topic of interest to most of us.on 9/9/2005 3:53 PM, Dennis De Jarnette at positivedennis@... wrote:

I understand the concern and many of Al's post I do not read after a quick review but this seems to be normal. I would say personally that one trait for longevity would be growing one's own food and learning proper storage. I would say that growing one's own food is far superior to organic for optimal nutrition. While it has nothing to do with CR it is related to ON. BTW growing my own food is something I do not do myself but am considering as part of my lifestyle, which I hope began today. SO far so good! IMHOPositive Dennis

[Guest guest]

I believe some on the other list can food. I find my self double banged by Al Pater's posts since I try to follow two CR lists. Can't say that read many (any?).

I'm getting good at deleting, if this list becomes as bad as a coffee roasting list I was on, there always the obvious solution.

I appreciate your intent but you are trying to herd cats and this is the kinder gentler list after all....

Didn't you hear, stress (in moderation) is good for us, so Be well..

JR

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Francesca SkeltonSent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:07 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Off topicThis post was about canning food. If I were to take a poll I wonder how many among us can our own food? I'll take a guess and say that none is closer to the correct answer than the answer that would make this a topic of interest to most of us.on 9/9/2005 3:53 PM, Dennis De Jarnette at positivedennis@... wrote:

I understand the concern and many of Al's post I do not read after a quick review but this seems to be normal. I would say personally that one trait for longevity would be growing one's own food and learning proper storage. I would say that growing one's own food is far superior to organic for optimal nutrition. While it has nothing to do with CR it is related to ON. BTW growing my own food is something I do not do myself but am considering as part of my lifestyle, which I hope began today. SO far so good! IMHOPositive Dennis

[Guest guest]

Canning is an art not easily learned, IMO. It may seem simple, but I've thrown out a lot of food - now I freeze stuff (and then I throw it out). I am reminded of a lady shown on TV selecting wild greens (dandelions?) to eat, and she said you had to avoid poke weed, as I recall. Later they said she died from selecting the wrong weed. Maybe our senses get mixed or the weed pollens get mixed, anyway, canning, home selected mushrooms, wild berries, home gardening are things with extra sometimes hidden risk. Don't kick a fungus, eg. Watch out for spore like fungus on animal feces.

I get all the risk I need on the Houston freeway, and food is almost always cheaper to buy than grow, excepting okra, maybe.

Regards.

Re: [ ] Off topic

This post was about canning food. If I were to take a poll I wonder how many among us can our own food? I'll take a guess and say that none is closer to the correct answer than the answer that would make this a topic of interest to most of us.

[Guest guest]

Canning is an art not easily learned, IMO. It may seem simple, but I've thrown out a lot of food - now I freeze stuff (and then I throw it out). I am reminded of a lady shown on TV selecting wild greens (dandelions?) to eat, and she said you had to avoid poke weed, as I recall. Later they said she died from selecting the wrong weed. Maybe our senses get mixed or the weed pollens get mixed, anyway, canning, home selected mushrooms, wild berries, home gardening are things with extra sometimes hidden risk. Don't kick a fungus, eg. Watch out for spore like fungus on animal feces.

I get all the risk I need on the Houston freeway, and food is almost always cheaper to buy than grow, excepting okra, maybe.

Regards.

Re: [ ] Off topic

This post was about canning food. If I were to take a poll I wonder how many among us can our own food? I'll take a guess and say that none is closer to the correct answer than the answer that would make this a topic of interest to most of us.

[Guest guest]

What do you use for testing the product?

One thing I don't accept is "free" foods. Too many bad guys out there like aflatoxin.

At least, if I die from the food, my daughter can sue.

Regards.

Re: [ ] Off topicThis post was about canning food. If I were to take a poll I wonderhow many among us can our own food? I'll take a guess and say thatnone is closer to the correct answer than the answer that would makethis a topic of interest to most of us.on 9/9/2005 3:53 PM, Dennis De Jarnette atpositivedennis@... wrote:

[Guest guest]

What do you use for testing the product?

One thing I don't accept is "free" foods. Too many bad guys out there like aflatoxin.

At least, if I die from the food, my daughter can sue.

Regards.

Re: [ ] Off topicThis post was about canning food. If I were to take a poll I wonderhow many among us can our own food? I'll take a guess and say thatnone is closer to the correct answer than the answer that would makethis a topic of interest to most of us.on 9/9/2005 3:53 PM, Dennis De Jarnette atpositivedennis@... wrote:

[Guest guest]

His fees are more reasonable than some, and he gets big points from

me for honesty on a number of points - telling patients out front

what the functional limits of his practice are.

Basically, this describes what any good, dedicated Lyme clinician

does:

1) Providing care for a large number of very ill patients each of

whom requires a much greater time committment than the standard 7

minute office visit.

2) Consulting regularly with colleagues and attending conferences

because in the absence of well-conceived, well-funded studies, there

is no other pool of data to draw from.

3) Setting limits which reflect the practical implications of items

1 & 2.

In my county, the standard fee for a regular patient office visit

that lasts less than 10 minutes is $100-150, if the doctor is a

general practitioner. It goes up substantially if they are a

specialist. What strikes me about this doctor's fees (for

apppointments and specific procedures) is that they are lower than

the norm, and far lower if you factor in the actual time committment

per patient.

This is a California physician. The cost of living in California is

double or triple that in many other parts of the country. At those

fees, he is unlikely to get rich, so " greedy " is a bit ridiculous.

If you're interested in knowing more about this particular

physician, I'll try to dig up a link to a video of his testimony

about Lyme in California before our State Assembly. I was very

struck by his testimony, which consisted almost exclusively of case

histories, recited back to back.

S.

> What do you think of this? Is he a crazy, greedy control freak or

an

> Aspie Genius? I recieved this tonite from an e-pal in another part

> of the country:

>

> *S*

> Well I just recieved from the LLMD's office a packet of papers to

> read through. Bascially outlining the Policy Services & Fees and a

> Questionnaire. This is the Doctor's office who behaved poorly on

the

> phone w/ me. Anyhow I have written out what they sent me.

Thought

> you might find it interesting. This Doctor in Nevada City holds

the

> position of " clinical Consultant " at Igenex.

>

> So he is between Palo Alto And Nevada City. Outside of the Nevada

> City offices there is no phone and no " real " office space, but

> rented rooms for only 2 days per month. So, if you live near Palo

> Alto, you must go to Nevada City at least once, and maybe once

every

> three months also.

>

>

>

> It allows 1 free phone consultation w/in first month of visit. The

> intial visit is $350.00 !!

>

> Follow up visits are $190.00 maybe required if medication is

changed.

>

> Phone consultations are available after in person visit for $75/15

> minutes. !!

>

> Antibiotic Injections:

> Bicillin shot $40

> Rocephin shot $ 125

>

> Prescription Refills:

>

> 72 hours in advance

>

> New Patients:

> must have follow up visit w/in 1 month of 1st visit.

> first weeks are the most difficult and unsettling, many symptoms

> change rapidly, neccessatating exam and explaination.

>

> Maintaining Current Patient Status:

>

> By maintaining a 3 months interval time between visits. For

Proper

> care, 1 visit every 3 months must be seen by Dr.

> After 3 months patient will become Inactive.

> New Patient fee will be applied along w/ in depth reassesment of

> your status.

>

> Cancellation:

> 48hrs or $50 fee billed.

>

> Primary Care Doctor Requirement

>

> Duration of the disease Battle:

>

> There is no Rigid Time frame, in general the more time has elapsed

> the longer the patient will require treatment.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Types of Lyme Antibiotic treatment :

>

> Oral Meds,

> Intramuscular shots,

> intravenous injections

>

> Mid Lines

> Picc Lines

> Medi ports & Hickman Catheters are kinds of indwelling catheters.

> There advantages & disadvantages

>

> What we expect from Patients:

>

> Muscle toning exercise at least 2 x' per week, 20 minutes per day.

> Inportant component in combatting Lyme disease. Even if pain

prevent

> a rigorous workout must do something. However Aerobic exercise is

> potentially dangerous for Lyme patients. Intially one day of rest

> between workouts is mandatory.

>

> No smoking, must quit.

>

> some nutritional supplements are an integral part of the

treatment.

> and therapies such as acidopholous are essential. Must protect

> oneself from harmfull effects of long term antibiotics.

>

> Patients must not addres Doctor about payment arrangements. or may

> be removed from the pratice. Only through receptionist. Must pay

in

> Full before leaving office.

>

> No Alcohol. Detrimental and interacts w/ meds.

>

> Avoid Lyme vaccine unless you are absolutely sure you do not have

> Lyme.

>

> The Doctor is out of town frequently. Hours are irregular. Monthly

> calendar will be made available to current patients 1 or 2 months

in

> advance.

>

> The Reception is only staffed part time.

>

> Threats or aggessive behaviour or other forms of Lyme rage.

>

> Will not be tolerated, will recieve written warning, subsequent

> offenses will result in removal from the practice.

>

> Antibiotic Doses & side effects

>

> Several side effects can lead to possible complications. These

> include, but not limited to, allergic reactions, stomach,

intestinal

> disorders, antibiotic resistant bugs which can turn mild

infections

> into catastrphic events, nausea, rashes, visual or hearing loss,

> drug interactions, liver, kidney damage, nerve damage, immune

system

> disfunction and yeast infections.

> You are assuming the risk if you accept treatment.

> Several techniques will be used to avoid these complications, but

> sometimes they are unavoidable.

>

>

> There is also a page that goes on about:

>

> Political Arena

>

> Lyme disease and associated diseases are complex & puzzling

problem

> that scientists, practioners, and patients are only beginning to

> understand.

>

> Tremendous controversy surrounds the diagnosis and treatment of

> chronic Lyme.

>

> Disagreement w/ the of long term antibiotic treatment. The

> scientific Media lends little support, very few studies

illustrating

> the benefits of long term use.

>

> Many doctors have unwillingness or Lack of knowledge to pursue

Lyme

> as the primary cause of Patients symptoms. As a result many go

> undiagnosed or misdiagnosed.

>

> It is also true that the conditions, symptoms exist alone without

> any relation to Lyme disease, Babesia, Erlichiosis or Bartonella.

> In theses case a Rhuematologist or nuerologist many be suited to

> mange patients care.

>

> We will inform you when we believe that your symptoms are not

Lyme

> related. A porporton of Patients who come to our practice indeed

do

> not have Lyme.

>

> Oh they also wrote that it is not just getting a diagnosis of

wether

> or not u have Lyme disease but includes an undrstanding of the

> current state and severity of the disease.

[Guest guest]

Hmmm, well, it's certainly offputting (and slightly annoying with

the typos and misspells), but on the other hand, seems like he's

laying his cards on the table pretty clearly, which I actually kind

of respect, despite the tone.

Two of my best doctors of all time have had the most horrendous

office staffs. Getting an appointment was like trying to fight your

way past a line of bouncers at a trendy Nightclub (after acquiring a

secret code). The doctors let their staffs handle ALL the practical

stuff, but themselves were very sweet. But, god, I dreaded every

office visit.

The prices ARE outrageous, compared to what my doc charges (but my

doc is a gp, who doesn't charge " specialist " prices). Does he take

insurance? Maybe this guy IS just greedy, capitalizing on people's

desperation, or maybe he's a " tough-love " kind of guy who wants to

help the helpless, but has dealt with one too many lyme enraged

patients (although you wonder why they're getting ticked off so

easily) or people who don't pay up or show up for their treatment.

(again, why is it such a problem that it warrants all kinds of

warnings?).

Sounds like a bit of a control freak to me, but hey, you don't

know 'til you actually talk to the guy (and hopefully a bunch of his

patients). Also, does he mainly only use those two antibiotics? If

so, all I can say is...pphhhpphh

If I were going to seriously consider seeing this guy, I'd call up

and say I want a brief meeting to determine whether we'd be a good

patient/doctor match before signing on for diagnosis and treatment.

See what he says? I'd hate to drop the $350 and walk out in a lyme

rage. :-)

penny

p.s. To be honest, based on that letter, I wouldn't go anywhere near

the guy, unless I was hearing from very reliable sources that they

were improving greatly, or unless I was absolutely desperate to get

someone to treat me with abx therapies that I couldn't get anywhere

else (desperation makes a strong case in itself).

> What do you think of this? Is he a crazy, greedy control freak or

an

> Aspie Genius? I recieved this tonite from an e-pal in another part

> of the country:

>

> *S*

> Well I just recieved from the LLMD's office a packet of papers to

> read through. Bascially outlining the Policy Services & Fees and a

> Questionnaire. This is the Doctor's office who behaved poorly on

the

> phone w/ me. Anyhow I have written out what they sent me.

Thought

> you might find it interesting. This Doctor in Nevada City holds

the

> position of " clinical Consultant " at Igenex.

>

> So he is between Palo Alto And Nevada City. Outside of the Nevada

> City offices there is no phone and no " real " office space, but

> rented rooms for only 2 days per month. So, if you live near Palo

> Alto, you must go to Nevada City at least once, and maybe once

every

> three months also.

>

>

>

> It allows 1 free phone consultation w/in first month of visit. The

> intial visit is $350.00 !!

>

> Follow up visits are $190.00 maybe required if medication is

changed.

>

> Phone consultations are available after in person visit for $75/15

> minutes. !!

>

> Antibiotic Injections:

> Bicillin shot $40

> Rocephin shot $ 125

>

> Prescription Refills:

>

> 72 hours in advance

>

> New Patients:

> must have follow up visit w/in 1 month of 1st visit.

> first weeks are the most difficult and unsettling, many symptoms

> change rapidly, neccessatating exam and explaination.

>

> Maintaining Current Patient Status:

>

> By maintaining a 3 months interval time between visits. For

Proper

> care, 1 visit every 3 months must be seen by Dr.

> After 3 months patient will become Inactive.

> New Patient fee will be applied along w/ in depth reassesment of

> your status.

>

> Cancellation:

> 48hrs or $50 fee billed.

>

> Primary Care Doctor Requirement

>

> Duration of the disease Battle:

>

> There is no Rigid Time frame, in general the more time has elapsed

> the longer the patient will require treatment.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Types of Lyme Antibiotic treatment :

>

> Oral Meds,

> Intramuscular shots,

> intravenous injections

>

> Mid Lines

> Picc Lines

> Medi ports & Hickman Catheters are kinds of indwelling catheters.

> There advantages & disadvantages

>

> What we expect from Patients:

>

> Muscle toning exercise at least 2 x' per week, 20 minutes per day.

> Inportant component in combatting Lyme disease. Even if pain

prevent

> a rigorous workout must do something. However Aerobic exercise is

> potentially dangerous for Lyme patients. Intially one day of rest

> between workouts is mandatory.

>

> No smoking, must quit.

>

> some nutritional supplements are an integral part of the

treatment.

> and therapies such as acidopholous are essential. Must protect

> oneself from harmfull effects of long term antibiotics.

>

> Patients must not addres Doctor about payment arrangements. or may

> be removed from the pratice. Only through receptionist. Must pay

in

> Full before leaving office.

>

> No Alcohol. Detrimental and interacts w/ meds.

>

> Avoid Lyme vaccine unless you are absolutely sure you do not have

> Lyme.

>

> The Doctor is out of town frequently. Hours are irregular. Monthly

> calendar will be made available to current patients 1 or 2 months

in

> advance.

>

> The Reception is only staffed part time.

>

> Threats or aggessive behaviour or other forms of Lyme rage.

>

> Will not be tolerated, will recieve written warning, subsequent

> offenses will result in removal from the practice.

>

> Antibiotic Doses & side effects

>

> Several side effects can lead to possible complications. These

> include, but not limited to, allergic reactions, stomach,

intestinal

> disorders, antibiotic resistant bugs which can turn mild

infections

> into catastrphic events, nausea, rashes, visual or hearing loss,

> drug interactions, liver, kidney damage, nerve damage, immune

system

> disfunction and yeast infections.

> You are assuming the risk if you accept treatment.

> Several techniques will be used to avoid these complications, but

> sometimes they are unavoidable.

>

>

> There is also a page that goes on about:

>

> Political Arena

>

> Lyme disease and associated diseases are complex & puzzling

problem

> that scientists, practioners, and patients are only beginning to

> understand.

>

> Tremendous controversy surrounds the diagnosis and treatment of

> chronic Lyme.

>

> Disagreement w/ the of long term antibiotic treatment. The

> scientific Media lends little support, very few studies

illustrating

> the benefits of long term use.

>

> Many doctors have unwillingness or Lack of knowledge to pursue

Lyme

> as the primary cause of Patients symptoms. As a result many go

> undiagnosed or misdiagnosed.

>

> It is also true that the conditions, symptoms exist alone without

> any relation to Lyme disease, Babesia, Erlichiosis or Bartonella.

> In theses case a Rhuematologist or nuerologist many be suited to

> mange patients care.

>

> We will inform you when we believe that your symptoms are not

Lyme

> related. A porporton of Patients who come to our practice indeed

do

> not have Lyme.

>

> Oh they also wrote that it is not just getting a diagnosis of

wether

> or not u have Lyme disease but includes an undrstanding of the

> current state and severity of the disease.

[Guest guest]

Well, there you go. has a video link. You can check the guy out

for yourself. Maybe your questions will be answered in the video.

I'd still talk to patients though, find out who has really improved

and continues to improve, not just patients currently on the band

wagon. I've been to several great medical geniuses, who, as it turns

out, their genius was in making money.

penny

[Guest guest]

Thanks and Penny, I will pass these along to my friend.

Rediculous? I don't think so - but I would like the link, .

Personally, I know I would " qualify " to be seen by him so it's not an

option for me, and I resent that a bit. He wants you to be at a

certain level of strength before he will see you. To me it sounds like

he only wants a perfect patient, one who won't have a reaction or need

to make a phone call more than once a month.

Heck, i see my guy almost once a week! And I need e-mail contact with

him, too cuz I had trouble in the beginning, with the medications.

Now, a year later I am not uite so dependant, but in the beginning I

sure was.

Cheers and thanks.

*S*

My friend has to decide for himself.

> Well, there you go. has a video link. You can check the guy out

> for yourself. Maybe your questions will be answered in the video.

>

> I'd still talk to patients though, find out who has really improved

> and continues to improve, not just patients currently on the band

> wagon. I've been to several great medical geniuses, who, as it turns

> out, their genius was in making money.

>

> penny