Guest guest Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 Thanks for agreeing with me . Re: cleansing > > Except the BTD isn't just about prevention. Eating correctly > let's your body fix itself, NATURALLY, and at a rate that is > healthy for itself. Why don't you expect the BTD to help repair > damage? > > > Just a thought but maybe the BTD prevents you from getting new > stones > > (kidney/gallstones),, but if you had them to begin with I > wouldn't expect Eating > > Right to dissolve them/make them disappear ! Seems like a > good idea to do a > > kidney or gallbladder cleanse to get those things out, no ? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 No problemo - I was told by an urologist that lack of water is the predominant cause of stones. ABO Specifics Inc. - http://www.foodforyourblood.com Re: cleansing Thanks for agreeing with me . Re: cleansing > > Except the BTD isn't just about prevention. Eating correctly > let's your body fix itself, NATURALLY, and at a rate that is > healthy for itself. Why don't you expect the BTD to help repair > damage? > > > Just a thought but maybe the BTD prevents you from getting new > stones > > (kidney/gallstones),, but if you had them to begin with I > wouldn't expect Eating > > Right to dissolve them/make them disappear ! Seems like a > good idea to do a > > kidney or gallbladder cleanse to get those things out, no ? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 I have done 12 liver flushes since last Oct. and have written about it in this group before. I had lots of stones and had one stone that was almost 2 " x 1 " . I do not believe that the stones I got out would have come out just by changing my diet. Maybe with a lot of herbs over a LONG period of time I could have got my liver and gallbadder clean, but I have my doubts. And at 48 year old I didn't want to wait for years to get my liver clean. I certainly don't think drinking lots of saltwater is going to clean the liver, kidneys yes, liver no. I never used ornithine with any of the flushes I did. I have no regrets of doing the flushes. It has probably been well over 2 months since my last flush. I do plan to do another flush sometime in the near future. Don > > Just a thought but maybe the BTD prevents you from getting new > stones > > (kidney/gallstones),, but if you had them to begin with I wouldn't > expect Eating > > Right to dissolve them/make them disappear ! Seems like a good > idea to do a > > kidney or gallbladder cleanse to get those things out, no ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 > wait for years to get my liver clean. I certainly don't think > drinking lots of saltwater is going to clean the liver, kidneys yes, > liver no. No, not saltwater. Plain water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 Hi Robin- I guess I just didn't know what to expect. I thought I had started a gallbladder attack, and that I should have had some type of medical oversight on the process. I've never had a gallbladder attack, so maybe I'm exaggerating what it was like. Of course, now that I know more about it, I am thinking of trying it again. I also didn't know what the stones would look like, or that it had worked, until I recently looked at some pictures online. I had a sonogram before doing the flush and they couldn't see any stones, so I didn't expect much action from the cleanse; I was wrong about that one! Had all types of stones pass, some big, some small, some floaters, some sinkers, and whole lots of sand. I probably should do it again, once I feel up to it and have the time to dedicate to it. I think I have more family members who've had their gallbladders removed than who haven't. By the way, somebody asked if anyone has ever passed stones without doing the cleanse or having an attack, I think I have occasionally seen one (gallstone) pass without event, but I'm probably full of 'em. - Re: cleansing I'm with on this one, especially the gall bladder. With a family history of gall bladder problems, and a gall bladder full of stones - I can feel them whenever I abuse my liver with a glass of wine or a box of valentine chocolates- I think I should probably boost the process with a cleanse. It took 37 years for it to get this full. Even with a proper diet now, it will take a looong time to break the suckers down and get rid of them. I've got everything I need but the ornithine and fresh grapefruit. Having trouble finding ornithine. But , what scared you about it??? I've asked a few people about their experiences and they have all said they were glad they did it. No one has been very specific about their feelings while they were doing it, though. -Robin > Just a thought but maybe the BTD prevents you from getting new stones > (kidney/gallstones),, but if you had them to begin with I wouldn't expect Eating > Right to dissolve them/make them disappear ! Seems like a good idea to do a > kidney or gallbladder cleanse to get those things out, no ? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 uh sorry, but it changed my life so much, that I again recommend the cleanse of Dr. e it helped me so very good - maybe it helps somebody else aswell Cleansing > > Hi everyone, > > Sometime ago, I remember you were all discussing colon cleansing. I didn't pay attention to it at the time because, frankly, it didn't interest me all that much. However, *now* (of course) I've been hearing a lot about it, and seeing products for it all over the place. Is there a recommended method for this particular blood type, or a recommended product to use? What are you (compact) thoughts on the subject? I'm not asking about liver cleansing because I know that would be another entire line of discussion. > > Thanks, Carolyn > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 This is the website for the Hilda liver cleanse. Have to say that I didn't get many stones out but I felt better. I think it's a good cleanse. http://www.curezone.com/clark/liver.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2005 Report Share Posted December 3, 2005 I have done them all and my whole family has and we all continue to do them. I have four children 11-15 years old and we all do those cleanses. I highly recommend them. Johanne From: lightcondor Date: 12/03/05 Subject: cleansing Does anyone have any cleansing recommendations they can make? I am looking into liver, gallbladder and/or kidney cleanses. I know you have to be careful with this, especially if you have had cancer- Has anyone done Dr Schulze's cleanses? Thanks, Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 It looks like there are so many cleansers available that it's hard to know where to start. Liver, colon, parasites - on and on it goes. As I think about starting a program, I'd like to get recommendations from you. Barbara Re: CLEANSING: WAS: new to group , have you ever done a cleanse? Real people pass real parasites when they do cleanses. Dr. Oz even brought along some parasites to the Oprah show to show just what could be living in the human gut. The fact of the matter is, we take in toxins everyday and they do build up. Don't knock it til you try it. CW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 Are you aware of the fact that there are tests to determine if you have parasites and or other problems that might warrant cleansing or medication to eliminate them? The tests are not invasive, and involve urine, stool and blood samples. Roni rbara <blessed1@...> wrote: It looks like there are so many cleansers available that it's hard to know where to start. Liver, colon, parasites - on and on it goes. As I think about starting a program, I'd like to get recommendations from you. Barbara Re: CLEANSING: WAS: new to group , have you ever done a cleanse? Real people pass real parasites when they do cleanses. Dr. Oz even brought along some parasites to the Oprah show to show just what could be living in the human gut. The fact of the matter is, we take in toxins everyday and they do build up. Don't knock it til you try it. CW --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 Hi Barbara, Back in 1999, I was 27 and was very sick. The doctors really couldn't offer me any hope. I was on 5 different meds, one of which they pulled from the shelf becuase it caused stomache cancer. I had just lost a baby, and was very overweight, had severe digestive issues, and really didn't know boo about alternatives. Never even heard of them. I literally would cry every night, because I didn't know what was wrong with me. I had so many symtoms that the meds were not even working. I started to get little insights here and there from people around me, and finally, I just fell on my face and cried and prayed for healing. I didn't know what else to do. I was so sick. I could go into descriptives, major reflux that I couldn't even keep water down-it would literally shoot out my nose, severe constipation, major heart burn so terrible every day, I was on propulsid (cancer causing drug they pulled from the shelves) priolosec, previcid, synthroid, stool softener, you name it, I was on it. I was only 27, and you have to imagine, I went from being about 145 lbs to 225, marathon running to a sick person. I have nothing to sell you. I can only share what happened to me. In the midst of all of this, I feel flat on my face and cried out for healing. I am not kidding you when I tell you that after I prayed that prayer, people who could help started coming into my life. A friend at work was doing a cleanse at the time and lent me the book " Cleanse and Purify " from Dr. . http://www.cleanse.net/ I am not kidding, I read this book in one weekend (back then it was one book about 400 pages now it is broken into to books) Then, I ordered the cleansing kid, and started my cleanse for 30 days. In 30 days, I was not on one single med except synthroid. All of my constipation issues cleared, reflux cleared, and all of my digestive issues cleared. I started losing weight 20 pounds, and then continued to lose until I was down to 160. I lost 65 pounds because of cleansing. I would highly recommened dr. richard anderson's cleanse. It helped me, and I am giving you first hand knowledge. The doc's who had been treating me, could not belive it when I walked into his office. He was happy for me!! It was pretty neat. I hope that I have shed some light on this. I would start with a colon cleanse, and then move on to the liver, then the kidney, and then the blood. Blessings, Barbara <blessed1@...> wrote: It looks like there are so many cleansers available that it's hard to know where to start. Liver, colon, parasites - on and on it goes. As I think about starting a program, I'd like to get recommendations from you. Barbara Re: CLEANSING: WAS: new to group , have you ever done a cleanse? Real people pass real parasites when they do cleanses. Dr. Oz even brought along some parasites to the Oprah show to show just what could be living in the human gut. The fact of the matter is, we take in toxins everyday and they do build up. Don't knock it til you try it. CW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 Thank you for your openness, . I'll go check that out. ----------------------------------- Re: CLEANSING: WAS: new to group , have you ever done a cleanse? Real people pass real parasites when they do cleanses. Dr. Oz even brought along some parasites to the Oprah show to show just what could be living in the human gut. The fact of the matter is, we take in toxins everyday and they do build up. Don't knock it til you try it. CW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Mel- hey there cutie! Here's what I think about the cleanse thing- I think our first reaction to having this is that we should get them off the surface of our skin and out of our environment and everything will be better. Atleast it was mine and many other people's I have talked with and read about. What I have learned since is that these things also invade the inside of our bodies whether we realize or accept it or not and this is why this problem has to be treated from the inside out in my opinion. Not only do cleanses flush these things out of our systems but they also make us healthier by removing toxins and impurities and they give us a chance to replenish ourselves with good, nutritious things which make us healthier and stronger and enable our bodies to fight these things more effectively. Every person I've ever talked to who knows anything about this has always prescribed cleanses FIRST in order to deal with this and I can say from personal experience that it has helped me greatly. I have also found since starting doing cleanses that the other things that I tried before that didn't work now have more of an effect on these things I think because cleansing softens them up and makes us more able to fight them. I hope this helps... Blessings- som > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear group. I am extremely happy to report > > that I think my case > > > was > > > > the > > > > > same as the person from Brasil. > > > > > > > > > > I know I had birdmites or some type of insect > > because I caught > > > about > > > > > three of them. After heatiung and bombing the > > house I would only > > > > see the > > > > > white and black specks but nothing else. I was > > feeling the > > > > crawling, and > > > > > burning sensations, more often at night and > > was feeling very > > > > desperate > > > > > that I was not getting rid of them. > > > > > > > > > > The fact that your immune system can become > > hypersensible to > > > > organisms > > > > > made perfect sense to me from the start > > because that is exactly > > > > what I > > > > > have experienced. Monday night I went to the > > drugstore and bought > > > a > > > > good > > > > > OTC antiallergy and have been taking one a day > > since. It is > > > almost > > > > too > > > > > good to be true to believe the results but > > since Monday I have > > > had > > > > very > > > > > little activity. I notice that when I get > > stressed I feel the > > > > crawling > > > > > more often but nonetheless I haven't had any > > reactions in my > > > skin. > > > > I'm > > > > > not even washing the bed sheets and only > > bathing once a day. I > > > have > > > > > started to take the clothes out of bags and > > putting them on the > > > > closets. > > > > > > > > > > My family returned home and none of them feel > > anything anymore. > > > My > > > > dog > > > > > is also doing perfect so I believe that the > > hipersensibility > > > effect > > > > is > > > > > the one a lot of us have been fighting > > against. > > > > > > > > > > I think our immune system is not depressed, on > > the contrary, > > > after > > > > you > > > > > get bitten it becomes hypersensible to alert > > you from any other > > > > bites. A > > > > > consequence of that alertness level would be > > the white and black > > > > specks > > > > > that we produce as a result. > > > > > > > > > > That is why I never felt any mites when my > > wife had them about 5 > > > > years > > > > > ago, because I never got bitten initially and > > never became > > > > > hypersensible. That could be the case why some > > of the members > > > don't > > > > seem > > > > > to infect others surrounding them. When we got > > infested last > > > year, I > > > > > think the mites bit my kids and dog also. > > > > > > > > > > I would become very irritated when doctors > > would suggest that we > > > had > > > > > delussional parasitosis because there is > > nothing delussional > > > > related to > > > > > our conditions. We are really feeling these > > creatures!! The > > > problem > > > > is > > > > > that our immune system is too alert and thus > > reacts accordingly > > > to > > > > any > > > > > microorganisms in the environment. I know I > > produce the white > > > specks > > > > > because I am seeing less of them everyday as > > my immune system > > > lowers > > > > > itself to normal levels. > > > > > > > > > > That would explain why doctors prescribe > > cortizones to treat > > > > > " delussional parasitosis " because it tends to > > lower your defenses. > > > > > > > > > > When I read the email below, I thouhgt, what > > do I have to loose? > > > so > > > > I > > > > > tried it and since then have been experiencing > > taking my life > > > back! > > > > > > > > > > I always remember one phrase by LucyLu where > > she wrote that she > > > > would > > > > > never waste another minute of her life being > > unhappy after > > > getting > > > > rid > > > > > of these things!!!! I had prayed so much for > > guidance from God > > > and > > > > am > > > > > truly blessed that we have received answers.. > > > > > > > > > > If you believe you have eliminated all the > > sources of > > > contamination > > > > and > > > > > don't see any living creatures around you I > > would suggest you > > > > consider > > > > > treating yourself with antihistamines to lower > > your immune > > > system > > > > and > > > > > see the results. I was sure I had something on > > my skin because I > > > === message truncated === > > __________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Thanks som. I know you need to treat from the inside out, but I just want to know how to do it. What is the process? What do you use? Melsikofmites <sikofmites@...> wrote: Mel- hey there cutie! Here's what I think about the cleanse thing- I think our first reaction to having this is that we should get them off the surface of our skin and out of our environment and everything will be better. Atleast it was mine and many other people's I have talked with and read about. What I have learned since is that these things also invade the inside of our bodies whether we realize or accept it or not and this is why this problem has to be treated from the inside out in my opinion. Not only do cleanses flush these things out of our systems but they also make us healthier by removing toxins and impurities and they give us a chance to replenish ourselves with good, nutritious things which make us healthier and stronger and enable our bodies to fight these things more effectively. Every person I've ever talked to who knows anything about this has always prescribed cleanses FIRST in order to deal with this and I can say from personal experience that it has helped me greatly. I have also found since starting doing cleanses that the other things that I tried before that didn't work now have more of an effect on these things I think because cleansing softens them up and makes us more able to fight them. I hope this helps...Blessings-som;) > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Dear group. I am extremely happy to report> > that I think my case> > > was> > > > the> > > > > same as the person from Brasil.> > > > >> > > > > I know I had birdmites or some type of insect> > because I caught> > > about> > > > > three of them. After heatiung and bombing the> > house I would only> > > > see the> > > > > white and black specks but nothing else. I was> > feeling the> > > > crawling, and> > > > > burning sensations, more often at night and> > was feeling very> > > > desperate> > > > > that I was not getting rid of them.> > > > >> > > > > The fact that your immune system can become> > hypersensible to> > > > organisms> > > > > made perfect sense to me from the start> > because that is exactly> > > > what I> > > > > have experienced. Monday night I went to the> > drugstore and bought> > > a> > > > good> > > > > OTC antiallergy and have been taking one a day> > since. It is> > > almost> > > > too> > > > > good to be true to believe the results but> > since Monday I have> > > had> > > > very> > > > > little activity. I notice that when I get> > stressed I feel the> > > > crawling> > > > > more often but nonetheless I haven't had any> > reactions in my> > > skin.> > > > I'm> > > > > not even washing the bed sheets and only> > bathing once a day. I> > > have> > > > > started to take the clothes out of bags and> > putting them on the> > > > closets.> > > > >> > > > > My family returned home and none of them feel> > anything anymore.> > > My> > > > dog> > > > > is also doing perfect so I believe that the> > hipersensibility> > > effect> > > > is> > > > > the one a lot of us have been fighting> > against.> > > > >> > > > > I think our immune system is not depressed, on> > the contrary,> > > after> > > > you> > > > > get bitten it becomes hypersensible to alert> > you from any other> > > > bites. A> > > > > consequence of that alertness level would be> > the white and black> > > > specks> > > > > that we produce as a result.> > > > >> > > > > That is why I never felt any mites when my> > wife had them about 5> > > > years> > > > > ago, because I never got bitten initially and> > never became> > > > > hypersensible. That could be the case why some> > of the members> > > don't> > > > seem> > > > > to infect others surrounding them. When we got> > infested last> > > year, I> > > > > think the mites bit my kids and dog also.> > > > >> > > > > I would become very irritated when doctors> > would suggest that we> > > had> > > > > delussional parasitosis because there is> > nothing delussional> > > > related to> > > > > our conditions. We are really feeling these> > creatures!! The> > > problem> > > > is> > > > > that our immune system is too alert and thus> > reacts accordingly> > > to> > > > any> > > > > microorganisms in the environment. I know I> > produce the white> > > specks> > > > > because I am seeing less of them everyday as> > my immune system> > > lowers> > > > > itself to normal levels.> > > > >> > > > > That would explain why doctors prescribe> > cortizones to treat> > > > > "delussional parasitosis" because it tends to> > lower your defenses.> > > > >> > > > > When I read the email below, I thouhgt, what> > do I have to loose?> > > so> > > > I> > > > > tried it and since then have been experiencing> > taking my life> > > back!> > > > >> > > > > I always remember one phrase by LucyLu where> > she wrote that she> > > > would> > > > > never waste another minute of her life being> > unhappy after> > > getting> > > > rid> > > > > of these things!!!! I had prayed so much for> > guidance from God> > > and> > > > am> > > > > truly blessed that we have received answers..> > > > >> > > > > If you believe you have eliminated all the> > sources of> > > contamination> > > > and> > > > > don't see any living creatures around you I> > would suggest you> > > > consider> > > > > treating yourself with antihistamines to lower> > your immune> > > system> > > > and> > > > > see the results. I was sure I had something on> > my skin because I> > > === message truncated ===> > __________________________________________________________> Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Hi Mel, I will write up the cleanse process I went through in September, but it will take me a day or so to do this, because my notes are at home, and there is a lot of material. Aloha, myrtle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear group. I am extremely happy to report > > > that I think my case > > > > was > > > > > the > > > > > > same as the person from Brasil. > > > > > > > > > > > > I know I had birdmites or some type of insect > > > because I caught > > > > about > > > > > > three of them. After heatiung and bombing the > > > house I would only > > > > > see the > > > > > > white and black specks but nothing else. I was > > > feeling the > > > > > crawling, and > > > > > > burning sensations, more often at night and > > > was feeling very > > > > > desperate > > > > > > that I was not getting rid of them. > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact that your immune system can become > > > hypersensible to > > > > > organisms > > > > > > made perfect sense to me from the start > > > because that is exactly > > > > > what I > > > > > > have experienced. Monday night I went to the > > > drugstore and bought > > > > a > > > > > good > > > > > > OTC antiallergy and have been taking one a day > > > since. It is > > > > almost > > > > > too > > > > > > good to be true to believe the results but > > > since Monday I have > > > > had > > > > > very > > > > > > little activity. I notice that when I get > > > stressed I feel the > > > > > crawling > > > > > > more often but nonetheless I haven't had any > > > reactions in my > > > > skin. > > > > > I'm > > > > > > not even washing the bed sheets and only > > > bathing once a day. I > > > > have > > > > > > started to take the clothes out of bags and > > > putting them on the > > > > > closets. > > > > > > > > > > > > My family returned home and none of them feel > > > anything anymore. > > > > My > > > > > dog > > > > > > is also doing perfect so I believe that the > > > hipersensibility > > > > effect > > > > > is > > > > > > the one a lot of us have been fighting > > > against. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think our immune system is not depressed, on > > > the contrary, > > > > after > > > > > you > > > > > > get bitten it becomes hypersensible to alert > > > you from any other > > > > > bites. A > > > > > > consequence of that alertness level would be > > > the white and black > > > > > specks > > > > > > that we produce as a result. > > > > > > > > > > > > That is why I never felt any mites when my > > > wife had them about 5 > > > > > years > > > > > > ago, because I never got bitten initially and > > > never became > > > > > > hypersensible. That could be the case why some > > > of the members > > > > don't > > > > > seem > > > > > > to infect others surrounding them. When we got > > > infested last > > > > year, I > > > > > > think the mites bit my kids and dog also. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would become very irritated when doctors > > > would suggest that we > > > > had > > > > > > delussional parasitosis because there is > > > nothing delussional > > > > > related to > > > > > > our conditions. We are really feeling these > > > creatures!! The > > > > problem > > > > > is > > > > > > that our immune system is too alert and thus > > > reacts accordingly > > > > to > > > > > any > > > > > > microorganisms in the environment. I know I > > > produce the white > > > > specks > > > > > > because I am seeing less of them everyday as > > > my immune system > > > > lowers > > > > > > itself to normal levels. > > > > > > > > > > > > That would explain why doctors prescribe > > > cortizones to treat > > > > > > " delussional parasitosis " because it tends to > > > lower your defenses. > > > > > > > > > > > > When I read the email below, I thouhgt, what > > > do I have to loose? > > > > so > > > > > I > > > > > > tried it and since then have been experiencing > > > taking my life > > > > back! > > > > > > > > > > > > I always remember one phrase by LucyLu where > > > she wrote that she > > > > > would > > > > > > never waste another minute of her life being > > > unhappy after > > > > getting > > > > > rid > > > > > > of these things!!!! I had prayed so much for > > > guidance from God > > > > and > > > > > am > > > > > > truly blessed that we have received answers.. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you believe you have eliminated all the > > > sources of > > > > contamination > > > > > and > > > > > > don't see any living creatures around you I > > > would suggest you > > > > > consider > > > > > > treating yourself with antihistamines to lower > > > your immune > > > > system > > > > > and > > > > > > see the results. I was sure I had something on > > > my skin because I > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. > Try it now. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Good, thank you, Myrtle. Melmyrtle_maui <myrtle_maui@...> wrote: Hi Mel,I will write up the cleanse process I went through in September, butit will take me a day or so to do this, because my notes are at home,and there is a lot of material.Aloha,myrtle> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear group. I am extremely happy to report> > > that I think my case> > > > was> > > > > the> > > > > > same as the person from Brasil.> > > > > >> > > > > > I know I had birdmites or some type of insect> > > because I caught> > > > about> > > > > > three of them. After heatiung and bombing the> > > house I would only> > > > > see the> > > > > > white and black specks but nothing else. I was> > > feeling the> > > > > crawling, and> > > > > > burning sensations, more often at night and> > > was feeling very> > > > > desperate> > > > > > that I was not getting rid of them.> > > > > >> > > > > > The fact that your immune system can become> > > hypersensible to> > > > > organisms> > > > > > made perfect sense to me from the start> > > because that is exactly> > > > > what I> > > > > > have experienced. Monday night I went to the> > > drugstore and bought> > > > a> > > > > good> > > > > > OTC antiallergy and have been taking one a day> > > since. It is> > > > almost> > > > > too> > > > > > good to be true to believe the results but> > > since Monday I have> > > > had> > > > > very> > > > > > little activity. I notice that when I get> > > stressed I feel the> > > > > crawling> > > > > > more often but nonetheless I haven't had any> > > reactions in my> > > > skin.> > > > > I'm> > > > > > not even washing the bed sheets and only> > > bathing once a day. I> > > > have> > > > > > started to take the clothes out of bags and> > > putting them on the> > > > > closets.> > > > > >> > > > > > My family returned home and none of them feel> > > anything anymore.> > > > My> > > > > dog> > > > > > is also doing perfect so I believe that the> > > hipersensibility> > > > effect> > > > > is> > > > > > the one a lot of us have been fighting> > > against.> > > > > >> > > > > > I think our immune system is not depressed, on> > > the contrary,> > > > after> > > > > you> > > > > > get bitten it becomes hypersensible to alert> > > you from any other> > > > > bites. A> > > > > > consequence of that alertness level would be> > > the white and black> > > > > specks> > > > > > that we produce as a result.> > > > > >> > > > > > That is why I never felt any mites when my> > > wife had them about 5> > > > > years> > > > > > ago, because I never got bitten initially and> > > never became> > > > > > hypersensible. That could be the case why some> > > of the members> > > > don't> > > > > seem> > > > > > to infect others surrounding them. When we got> > > infested last> > > > year, I> > > > > > think the mites bit my kids and dog also.> > > > > >> > > > > > I would become very irritated when doctors> > > would suggest that we> > > > had> > > > > > delussional parasitosis because there is> > > nothing delussional> > > > > related to> > > > > > our conditions. We are really feeling these> > > creatures!! The> > > > problem> > > > > is> > > > > > that our immune system is too alert and thus> > > reacts accordingly> > > > to> > > > > any> > > > > > microorganisms in the environment. I know I> > > produce the white> > > > specks> > > > > > because I am seeing less of them everyday as> > > my immune system> > > > lowers> > > > > > itself to normal levels.> > > > > >> > > > > > That would explain why doctors prescribe> > > cortizones to treat> > > > > > "delussional parasitosis" because it tends to> > > lower your defenses.> > > > > >> > > > > > When I read the email below, I thouhgt, what> > > do I have to loose?> > > > so> > > > > I> > > > > > tried it and since then have been experiencing> > > taking my life> > > > back!> > > > > >> > > > > > I always remember one phrase by LucyLu where> > > she wrote that she> > > > > would> > > > > > never waste another minute of her life being> > > unhappy after> > > > getting> > > > > rid> > > > > > of these things!!!! I had prayed so much for> > > guidance from God> > > > and> > > > > am> > > > > > truly blessed that we have received answers..> > > > > >> > > > > > If you believe you have eliminated all the> > > sources of> > > > contamination> > > > > and> > > > > > don't see any living creatures around you I> > > would suggest you> > > > > consider> > > > > > treating yourself with antihistamines to lower> > > your immune> > > > system> > > > > and> > > > > > see the results. I was sure I had something on> > > my skin because I> > > > > === message truncated ===> > > > __________________________________________________________> > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. > Try it now.> >> > > > > > > ---------------------------------> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Mel, I've compiled the information from my class handouts in a Word document because it's too long to post in a message, however I can't figure out how to post the document in the files section. I will email the document to you. If anyone else is interested, please let me know and I'll email the cleanse to you. The document is about 8 pages, and only covers the basic information without much explanation. I have a thick file of handouts and notes from the class. After you read through it, you'll see that it's very time consuming to do the cleanse. I didn't have time to do everything every day, but did what I could. I felt a lot better afterwards, but was not cured of the mites, and they came back with a vengeance when I resumed my normal diet. Overall it was positive, because it made me realize that diet makes a big difference. Aloha, myrtle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear group. I am extremely happy to report > > > > that I think my case > > > > > was > > > > > > the > > > > > > > same as the person from Brasil. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know I had birdmites or some type of insect > > > > because I caught > > > > > about > > > > > > > three of them. After heatiung and bombing the > > > > house I would only > > > > > > see the > > > > > > > white and black specks but nothing else. I was > > > > feeling the > > > > > > crawling, and > > > > > > > burning sensations, more often at night and > > > > was feeling very > > > > > > desperate > > > > > > > that I was not getting rid of them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact that your immune system can become > > > > hypersensible to > > > > > > organisms > > > > > > > made perfect sense to me from the start > > > > because that is exactly > > > > > > what I > > > > > > > have experienced. Monday night I went to the > > > > drugstore and bought > > > > > a > > > > > > good > > > > > > > OTC antiallergy and have been taking one a day > > > > since. It is > > > > > almost > > > > > > too > > > > > > > good to be true to believe the results but > > > > since Monday I have > > > > > had > > > > > > very > > > > > > > little activity. I notice that when I get > > > > stressed I feel the > > > > > > crawling > > > > > > > more often but nonetheless I haven't had any > > > > reactions in my > > > > > skin. > > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > not even washing the bed sheets and only > > > > bathing once a day. I > > > > > have > > > > > > > started to take the clothes out of bags and > > > > putting them on the > > > > > > closets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My family returned home and none of them feel > > > > anything anymore. > > > > > My > > > > > > dog > > > > > > > is also doing perfect so I believe that the > > > > hipersensibility > > > > > effect > > > > > > is > > > > > > > the one a lot of us have been fighting > > > > against. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think our immune system is not depressed, on > > > > the contrary, > > > > > after > > > > > > you > > > > > > > get bitten it becomes hypersensible to alert > > > > you from any other > > > > > > bites. A > > > > > > > consequence of that alertness level would be > > > > the white and black > > > > > > specks > > > > > > > that we produce as a result. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is why I never felt any mites when my > > > > wife had them about 5 > > > > > > years > > > > > > > ago, because I never got bitten initially and > > > > never became > > > > > > > hypersensible. That could be the case why some > > > > of the members > > > > > don't > > > > > > seem > > > > > > > to infect others surrounding them. When we got > > > > infested last > > > > > year, I > > > > > > > think the mites bit my kids and dog also. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would become very irritated when doctors > > > > would suggest that we > > > > > had > > > > > > > delussional parasitosis because there is > > > > nothing delussional > > > > > > related to > > > > > > > our conditions. We are really feeling these > > > > creatures!! The > > > > > problem > > > > > > is > > > > > > > that our immune system is too alert and thus > > > > reacts accordingly > > > > > to > > > > > > any > > > > > > > microorganisms in the environment. I know I > > > > produce the white > > > > > specks > > > > > > > because I am seeing less of them everyday as > > > > my immune system > > > > > lowers > > > > > > > itself to normal levels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would explain why doctors prescribe > > > > cortizones to treat > > > > > > > " delussional parasitosis " because it tends to > > > > lower your defenses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I read the email below, I thouhgt, what > > > > do I have to loose? > > > > > so > > > > > > I > > > > > > > tried it and since then have been experiencing > > > > taking my life > > > > > back! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always remember one phrase by LucyLu where > > > > she wrote that she > > > > > > would > > > > > > > never waste another minute of her life being > > > > unhappy after > > > > > getting > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > of these things!!!! I had prayed so much for > > > > guidance from God > > > > > and > > > > > > am > > > > > > > truly blessed that we have received answers.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you believe you have eliminated all the > > > > sources of > > > > > contamination > > > > > > and > > > > > > > don't see any living creatures around you I > > > > would suggest you > > > > > > consider > > > > > > > treating yourself with antihistamines to lower > > > > your immune > > > > > system > > > > > > and > > > > > > > see the results. I was sure I had something on > > > > my skin because I > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. > > http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. > > Try it now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. > Try it now. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Thank you so much, Myrtle. Maybe Tim, our moderator, can post this for us. I'll try to figure out how to post it, in the meantime. Thanks again, Melindamyrtle_maui <myrtle_maui@...> wrote: Mel, I've compiled the information from my class handouts in a Word document because it's too long to post in a message, however I can't figure out how to post the document in the files section. I will email the document to you. If anyone else is interested, please let me know and I'll email the cleanse to you. The document is about 8 pages, and only covers the basic information without much explanation. I have a thick file of handouts and notes from the class. After you read through it, you'll see that it's very time consuming to do the cleanse. I didn't have time to do everything every day, but did what I could. I felt a lot better afterwards, but was not cured of the mites, and they came back with a vengeance when I resumed my normal diet. Overall it was positive, because it made me realize that diet makes a big difference. Aloha, myrtle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear group. I am extremely happy to report > > > > that I think my case > > > > > was > > > > > > the > > > > > > > same as the person from Brasil. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know I had birdmites or some type of insect > > > > because I caught > > > > > about > > > > > > > three of them. After heatiung and bombing the > > > > house I would only > > > > > > see the > > > > > > > white and black specks but nothing else. I was > > > > feeling the > > > > > > crawling, and > > > > > > > burning sensations, more often at night and > > > > was feeling very > > > > > > desperate > > > > > > > that I was not getting rid of them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact that your immune system can become > > > > hypersensible to > > > > > > organisms > > > > > > > made perfect sense to me from the start > > > > because that is exactly > > > > > > what I > > > > > > > have experienced. Monday night I went to the > > > > drugstore and bought > > > > > a > > > > > > good > > > > > > > OTC antiallergy and have been taking one a day > > > > since. It is > > > > > almost > > > > > > too > > > > > > > good to be true to believe the results but > > > > since Monday I have > > > > > had > > > > > > very > > > > > > > little activity. I notice that when I get > > > > stressed I feel the > > > > > > crawling > > > > > > > more often but nonetheless I haven't had any > > > > reactions in my > > > > > skin. > > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > not even washing the bed sheets and only > > > > bathing once a day. I > > > > > have > > > > > > > started to take the clothes out of bags and > > > > putting them on the > > > > > > closets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My family returned home and none of them feel > > > > anything anymore. > > > > > My > > > > > > dog > > > > > > > is also doing perfect so I believe that the > > > > hipersensibility > > > > > effect > > > > > > is > > > > > > > the one a lot of us have been fighting > > > > against. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think our immune system is not depressed, on > > > > the contrary, > > > > > after > > > > > > you > > > > > > > get bitten it becomes hypersensible to alert > > > > you from any other > > > > > > bites. A > > > > > > > consequence of that alertness level would be > > > > the white and black > > > > > > specks > > > > > > > that we produce as a result. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is why I never felt any mites when my > > > > wife had them about 5 > > > > > > years > > > > > > > ago, because I never got bitten initially and > > > > never became > > > > > > > hypersensible. That could be the case why some > > > > of the members > > > > > don't > > > > > > seem > > > > > > > to infect others surrounding them. When we got > > > > infested last > > > > > year, I > > > > > > > think the mites bit my kids and dog also. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would become very irritated when doctors > > > > would suggest that we > > > > > had > > > > > > > delussional parasitosis because there is > > > > nothing delussional > > > > > > related to > > > > > > > our conditions. We are really feeling these > > > > creatures!! The > > > > > problem > > > > > > is > > > > > > > that our immune system is too alert and thus > > > > reacts accordingly > > > > > to > > > > > > any > > > > > > > microorganisms in the environment. I know I > > > > produce the white > > > > > specks > > > > > > > because I am seeing less of them everyday as > > > > my immune system > > > > > lowers > > > > > > > itself to normal levels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would explain why doctors prescribe > > > > cortizones to treat > > > > > > > "delussional parasitosis" because it tends to > > > > lower your defenses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I read the email below, I thouhgt, what > > > > do I have to loose? > > > > > so > > > > > > I > > > > > > > tried it and since then have been experiencing > > > > taking my life > > > > > back! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always remember one phrase by LucyLu where > > > > she wrote that she > > > > > > would > > > > > > > never waste another minute of her life being > > > > unhappy after > > > > > getting > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > of these things!!!! I had prayed so much for > > > > guidance from God > > > > > and > > > > > > am > > > > > > > truly blessed that we have received answers.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you believe you have eliminated all the > > > > sources of > > > > > contamination > > > > > > and > > > > > > > don't see any living creatures around you I > > > > would suggest you > > > > > > consider > > > > > > > treating yourself with antihistamines to lower > > > > your immune > > > > > system > > > > > > and > > > > > > > see the results. I was sure I had something on > > > > my skin because I > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. > > http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. > > Try it now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. > Try it now. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 okay, i attached the cleanse here. I don't have authorization to post that file in the files section. And I don't know how to send a message to Tim to do it, unless i go into the birdmites website and contact him from there. Thanks again, Myrtle.Mel.myrtle_maui <myrtle_maui@...> wrote: Mel, I've compiled the information from my class handouts in a Word document because it's too long to post in a message, however I can't figure out how to post the document in the files section. I will email the document to you. If anyone else is interested, please let me know and I'll email the cleanse to you. The document is about 8 pages, and only covers the basic information without much explanation. I have a thick file of handouts and notes from the class. After you read through it, you'll see that it's very time consuming to do the cleanse. I didn't have time to do everything every day, but did what I could. I felt a lot better afterwards, but was not cured of the mites, and they came back with a vengeance when I resumed my normal diet. Overall it was positive, because it made me realize that diet makes a big difference. Aloha, myrtle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear group. I am extremely happy to report > > > > that I think my case > > > > > was > > > > > > the > > > > > > > same as the person from Brasil. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know I had birdmites or some type of insect > > > > because I caught > > > > > about > > > > > > > three of them. After heatiung and bombing the > > > > house I would only > > > > > > see the > > > > > > > white and black specks but nothing else. I was > > > > feeling the > > > > > > crawling, and > > > > > > > burning sensations, more often at night and > > > > was feeling very > > > > > > desperate > > > > > > > that I was not getting rid of them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact that your immune system can become > > > > hypersensible to > > > > > > organisms > > > > > > > made perfect sense to me from the start > > > > because that is exactly > > > > > > what I > > > > > > > have experienced. Monday night I went to the > > > > drugstore and bought > > > > > a > > > > > > good > > > > > > > OTC antiallergy and have been taking one a day > > > > since. It is > > > > > almost > > > > > > too > > > > > > > good to be true to believe the results but > > > > since Monday I have > > > > > had > > > > > > very > > > > > > > little activity. I notice that when I get > > > > stressed I feel the > > > > > > crawling > > > > > > > more often but nonetheless I haven't had any > > > > reactions in my > > > > > skin. > > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > not even washing the bed sheets and only > > > > bathing once a day. I > > > > > have > > > > > > > started to take the clothes out of bags and > > > > putting them on the > > > > > > closets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My family returned home and none of them feel > > > > anything anymore. > > > > > My > > > > > > dog > > > > > > > is also doing perfect so I believe that the > > > > hipersensibility > > > > > effect > > > > > > is > > > > > > > the one a lot of us have been fighting > > > > against. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think our immune system is not depressed, on > > > > the contrary, > > > > > after > > > > > > you > > > > > > > get bitten it becomes hypersensible to alert > > > > you from any other > > > > > > bites. A > > > > > > > consequence of that alertness level would be > > > > the white and black > > > > > > specks > > > > > > > that we produce as a result. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is why I never felt any mites when my > > > > wife had them about 5 > > > > > > years > > > > > > > ago, because I never got bitten initially and > > > > never became > > > > > > > hypersensible. That could be the case why some > > > > of the members > > > > > don't > > > > > > seem > > > > > > > to infect others surrounding them. When we got > > > > infested last > > > > > year, I > > > > > > > think the mites bit my kids and dog also. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would become very irritated when doctors > > > > would suggest that we > > > > > had > > > > > > > delussional parasitosis because there is > > > > nothing delussional > > > > > > related to > > > > > > > our conditions. We are really feeling these > > > > creatures!! The > > > > > problem > > > > > > is > > > > > > > that our immune system is too alert and thus > > > > reacts accordingly > > > > > to > > > > > > any > > > > > > > microorganisms in the environment. I know I > > > > produce the white > > > > > specks > > > > > > > because I am seeing less of them everyday as > > > > my immune system > > > > > lowers > > > > > > > itself to normal levels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would explain why doctors prescribe > > > > cortizones to treat > > > > > > > "delussional parasitosis" because it tends to > > > > lower your defenses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I read the email below, I thouhgt, what > > > > do I have to loose? > > > > > so > > > > > > I > > > > > > > tried it and since then have been experiencing > > > > taking my life > > > > > back! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always remember one phrase by LucyLu where > > > > she wrote that she > > > > > > would > > > > > > > never waste another minute of her life being > > > > unhappy after > > > > > getting > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > of these things!!!! I had prayed so much for > > > > guidance from God > > > > > and > > > > > > am > > > > > > > truly blessed that we have received answers.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you believe you have eliminated all the > > > > sources of > > > > > contamination > > > > > > and > > > > > > > don't see any living creatures around you I > > > > would suggest you > > > > > > consider > > > > > > > treating yourself with antihistamines to lower > > > > your immune > > > > > system > > > > > > and > > > > > > > see the results. I was sure I had something on > > > > my skin because I > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. > > http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. > > Try it now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. > Try it now. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Mel,I'm glad you got the file. I emailed Tim about posting it, and he told me to go ahead and post it in the Files section, but I don't think I have privileges to post there. I almost prefer not to post it in the Files section, since it's not a cure, but it does have a lot of interesting ideas that might spark other ideas leading to a cure.I'll try attaching the file to this message; I never quite know what I'm doing here.Tim's email is tim@....Aloha,Myrtle Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Thanks again Myrtle. I've been off my computer today. i'll see if he responded in my other email. You were a dear to give us this cleansing procedure. Mel Myrtle Mahoney <myrtle_maui@...> wrote: Mel,I'm glad you got the file. I emailed Tim about posting it, and he told me to go ahead and post it in the Files section, but I don't think I have privileges to post there. I almost prefer not to post it in the Files section, since it's not a cure, but it does have a lot of interesting ideas that might spark other ideas leading to a cure.I'll try attaching the file to this message; I never quite know what I'm doing here.Tim's email is timbirdmites (DOT) org.Aloha,Myrtle Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2009 Report Share Posted April 19, 2009 > > what kind of cleansing do you recommend b/f doing the beck protocol and > for how long? > > thanks > monique > Well, suggests doing a parasite cleanse before doing the liver cleanse. You can check out her site or pick up something from your local health food store for a parasite cleanse. After you do the parasite cleanse, start the liver cleanse. She suggests doing one every 2 weeks until you no longer pass any stones, then one twice a year, once in the Fall, and once in the Spring along with your parasite cleanse twice a year. IF I had it to do over, I'd do a parasite cleanse and then a couple of liver cleanses, then start Beck's protocol and continue doing the liver cleanse at the same time. For kidney cleansing, I just drink a lot of pure water. has the directions for her cleanse as well as the herbs for the parasite cleanse. Don't remember if she has anything for the kidneys. You can google and get all the information you need for the cleanses. Gail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 Catie, You are my girl, my teacher, my best friend across the miles, I truly feel that. You have bene there for me the year that we've both shared smiles and tears over phone, email, etc. I thank you for all your words, advice, and sincerity to each one on this group. You DO only try to help and educate others, you are truly, an angel to many of us. Thank you for your support and helping me get support for Dr. L. I was told he would be added to the list, but you are right, he is not. He has been our blessing for Drue. Love you and your little men so much, Thank you from all of us!! and JimmyMommy and daddy to Grace, 10, Tryston, 5Drue, 2 out of cast #213* out of cast, down from 26*, started at 40*In second braceSt. Louis Shriners Hospital From: Chad And Catie Diefenbaugh <chadandcatie@...>Subject: Cleansinginfantile scoliosis treatment Date: Tuesday, November 16, 2010, 5:57 AM I also stand firmly behind my original post which was meant to only say Hey Dr. DA said this was a good casting doctor. In the original email to me it further said that not every family can be casted is SLC, the doctors in Denver are good and Dr. DA said they should be trusted. I in no way doubt the information provided to me by another parent to be false and still stand behind the original post. I am a passionate advocate for my child and all children dealing with this. Whether I like the parents or not I will always support the children. My years journey has taken me on a different path than what this group has to offer. I don't believe scaring new families can be hidden behind what Cotrel/Morel or Min Mehta pioneered. I stand behind my thoughts that the Growth as a Corrective force video should be easily accesible for new families and I am glad that Amil has made it available to families on YOU TUBE. You should be too. ARISE is defunct and has been since 2008. There is no money that can go their way anymore and having this available to all is in the best interest of ISOP and CAST. It is an education tool not a fundraiser. St. Louis is a wonderful casting center and Dr. L received hands on training from Dr. S in Chicago. He has casted children with great success. He should be embraced. Contact his office through St. Louis Children's. Add him to the group. You told you would months ago. You seek to educate me in every reply you send my way. I am educated. I have traveled this road for a year seen friends come and go from this group and never sought to diminish your imprint on casting. I don't need to be reminded your journey is greater than mine. I am living this right now. I understand your pain as a mother. I don't believe your sacrifice or that of any of us gives Carte Blanche to be dismissive or mean. I have stopped the posts from streaming to my inbox. If you would like to continue further dialogue off post, I welcome it. Thanks to my girls for all the support. You guys are so mother hen it made me smile! This is a good dialogue, cleansing. Catie,Cody(9) & 's(23mo)mom (in 5th cast 35*out of cast, 67* start @ 10mo) proudly at Chicago Shriners From: "heather@..." <heather@...>infantile scoliosis treatment Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 11:35:48 PMSubject: Re: Denver & Canada Catie,When did I question Dr. R specifically? I did recently have questionsabout a hosp in Denver because as far as I know, the correct windows arentbeing trimmed and a few Denver families have expressed that their block ofcasts were removed prematurely. Thanks for the CV, but to my knowledgethis is the 1st mention of Dr. R (?) doing a partial residency at ShrinersIntermountain and certainly the 1st time Ive heard that he casted yourfriends child. Perhaps, I missed an earlier post on this?Im sorry you are infuriated by my posts. I only try to make thedifferences between casting techniques and principles so families canproperly advocate and develop the best care plan for their child, who mayonly have a small window to benefit. I have been in the OR with thepioneer for over 25 EDf applications and only share what I have learnedfrom over 8 yrs of Et experience. I can tell you that I am happy thatparents find solid info here on ET principles & EDF technique, but I havenever stated to a parent that the doc they have chosen is unqualified. Ifparents ask if the doc has been trained by the pioneer or one of the coregroup of surgeons she trained I answer honestly (according to what I knowat the time). I have seen some unbelievable casts over the years and theyhave all come from untrained centers. I have seen many children misstheir window to grow straight due to improperly applied casts using Risserprinciples. Ive seen cast sores that are so deep the child is unable totolerate a series of casts for over a year as the wound must heal. Leaving children with deformities they could have avoided.I have stated that to apply proper ET a proper frame is needed. I havestated that properly trimmed windows in front/back are essential toprevent chest wall deformities & address rotation. I have stated thataccording to the pioneer and other experienced ET docs that under armjackets are most effective for curves above T-8/9. I have statedrepeatedly that there are specific ET guidelines to be followed in orderfor the block of EDF casts to be most effective. And most recently, Istated that hands on training was more effective than a demonstration on avideo monitor. ISOP learned this the hard way as we spent a lot of moneydoing this in the past and we realized that it wasnt as effective as handson (because most US docs learned only risser).Believe me, I know exactly how scary it is to have a non EDF cast. Mydaughter had them for many years before I was able to bring the pioneer toSLC.If ISOP knows that a new hospital is applying ET, has a frame, is trimmingcorrect windows, following ET principles, are experiencing positiveresults and receives rave reviews from parents, Im the 1st to congratulatethem. If I read a parent has a child in cast with no windows, cast sores,no frame , no training and/or arent following ET principles/guidelinesthen Im a bit hesitant to congratulate as their child may not be gettingthe best. That's all. Plain & simple.There have been quite a few hospitals over the last 5yrs that have notembraced ET w/ EDF casting (and have been invited to multiple ETP's)andare now getting on board, so its only natural that I would ask familiesgoing to some of these hospitals very specific questions in order to helpthem....Not hurt them Catie.Im perplexed on why you feel CAST isnt supportive of new hospitals takingon ET. I strongly believe that pointing out the differences betweentechniques and principles are helpful for people beginning their ETjourney.I have pointed out good questions to ask about treatment in St. Louis andPortland, so parents could find out for themselves. As far as Chicago isconcerned and Dr. H.? What exactly are you referring to? Chicago isgreat and this continual dialogue about CAST not supporting Chicago isfalse.I hope you remain on CAST and this is resolved. If you no longer want tobe a part of CAST, you can remove yourself by unsubscribing.> Dr. Jaren R. is a pediatric orthopedic surgeon with Rocky Mountain> Pediatric> Orthopedics. Dr. R. graduated from University of Iowa College of> Medicine, and> went on to complete his orthopedic surgery residency there as well. He> completed his fellowship in pediatric orthopedic surgery at Primary> Children's> Hospital/Shriners Hospital in Salt Lake City, Utah.> His last name rhymes with Smiley. >> This is the doctor in question. The fact that he did his fellowship> under Dr.> Da in SLC, casted one of our friends children over a year ago with Dr. DA> would> qualify him as having hands on training. It is not my intent to post> information like this to discount in anyway what you are doing. I do> however> find it sad and infuriating when I see parents come to this board, share> their> experience, get educated on the principles of ET/EDF and then be told that> their> doctor is not qualified to apply such casts.  Their is nothing scarier> that> thinking the person who just placed your childs cast is not qualified to> do> it. Instead of saying CONGRATULATIONS to your doctor and center for> taking the> effort to embrace this principle.  Although my original post truly> didn't think> it was this group that discouraged 2 families from casting in Denver, I> now see> I must have been sorely mistaken. It happened with a family in Portland> & St.> Louis. Dr. H in Chicago was said to have not embraced at one time. > Good thing> times have changed.  If this format is to share information and> experience then> why is everything I share chastised or picked apart with the exception of> some> trivial feel good story about my son and a football team. >>> I have remained on this group because I still held out hope that maybe I> could> help one family as my Chicago sisters have helped me. I stayed at the> request> of my center who felt the families I have helped traverse the Shriners> application process and initial cast day at our center was a benefit to> both our> surgeons and those families. After a year of participating though I can> honestly say I am tiring of posting and being picked apart. I have more> constructive things to do with my time and better ways to help the> families at> my center and other centers.  >  Thanks to all the friends I have made in this journey. I wish this> group the> best in their endeavors.  >>   Catie,Cody(9) & 's(23mo)mom (in 5th cast 35*out of cast, 67*> start @> 10mo) proudly at Chicago Shriners>>>>>> ________________________________> From: "heather@..." <heather@...>> infantile scoliosis treatment > Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 1:52:58 PM> Subject: Re: Denver & Canada>>  > Oops. The doc in Denver that has had hands on is Dr. B. at the new Rocky> Mtn Childrens Hospital at PSL...(Not Dr. S.)>>> Thanks for the info, Catie.>>>> F.Y.I.- the doc in SLC held a casting "demonstration" (not hands on>> training)in Halifax, Nova Scotia. There were over 20 Canadian spine>> surgeons there, with all 10 Canadian provinces represented. Its my>> understanding that they were all very interested in learning the EDF>> casting technique, given the high complication rates that all of them>> have>> experienced with growing rods and VEPTR’s. Its FABULOUS that they are>> interested in learning. I hope they are also interested in receiving>> hands on experience. ISOP has learned that watching the EDF casting>> process on a video monitor is not as effective as actual hands on>> training. Many docs have only ever been exposed to Risser, so IMO hands>> on is the way to go. Hopefully, more and more surgeons will become>> experienced with hands on training and the early treatment principles>> for>> the treatment of progressive infantile scoliosis.>> The doc is SLC will be in WI. this week to give a "hands on" training>> tutorial on ET w/ Mehtas EDF, so WI.'s ET Program will now be on the>> list.>> Im not sure who Dr. R is...(?) I know Dr. E at Denver Childrens and can>> say that they are applying ET without trimming a window in back for>> rotation. They are also trimming a small round window in front. Nothing>> like the widely trimmed chest expansion windows w/ rib flaps. I can also>> confirm that Dr. S. at the new Rocky Mtn Childrens Hospital at PSL>> recently had hands on training, has a frame and will be applying>> appropriate windows.>> My goal in giving this info is help parents make the best decision on>> how>> to proceed in their childs care. Infants & children only have a window>> of>> time to grow straight gently & permanently and its best not to miss that>> window with an improperly applied cast.>> Looks like the ET Movement is growing! Way to go SLC!>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just got an email from a friend of mine who's daughter was casted>>> last>>> week in SLC. She was telling me about all the wonderful doctors and>>> centers who have started casting after training with Dr. D in SLC. She>>> said they had mentioned specifically the doctor in Denver, Dr.R. She>>> said>>> that Dr. D felt somehow parents were discouraged from casting in Denver>>> due to lack of training which in his opinion couldn't be farther from>>> the>>> truth. She isn't a apart of this group and I told her I would be happy>>> to>>> post Dr. D's confidence in the doctors and centers in Denver. She said>>> that another of our friends actually had their son casted in SLC with>>> this>>> doctor almost a year ago while he was doing yet another practicum in>>> SLC.>>> I just thought this might give the families who may be on the fence>>> about>>> casting in Denver the boost in confidence they need. Dr. D also>>> mentioned>>> he trained 22 Canadian doctors in Halifax. One from each province which>>> is huge for our>>> Canadian friends.>>>>>> I don't think it was specifically this group who may have discouraged>>> these families, but thought it wouldn't hurt to put the positive out>>> there. The doctors in SLC, Rochester, & Chicago are constantly sharing>>> their facilities and expertise with other Orthopedic Surgeons who are>>> expressing an interest in these kids. This year alone I have watched>>> new>>> centers and families join this group with great stories involving these>>> very doctors. St. Louis, Lexington, Boston, Duke, Kansas City>>> Childrens>>> Mercy and Cincinnati just to name a few. Love to see these families>>> getting the care they need closer to home!>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 From what I understand parents can add doctors to the database.  I don't think or ISOP has a posted list of doctors that ISOP recommends for legal reasons.  Here is the link to where you can add your doctor.  infantile scoliosis treatment/database?method=reportRows & tbl=4 Please if your doctor is trained add them to the group so others can benefit from this information.  You can also have them or their care coordinator contact .  I am pretty sure that would be more than happy to recommend a doctor once she has SEEN that they have the correct table and are applying the correct cur outs and have the correct anchoring on the hips.  I know she likes to confirm with them, not because she doesn't believe CAST members or doctors on their word, but because there is SO much misinformation out there and sometimes parents and doctors are unaware that Mehta's techniques are not being completely followed and doesn't not want to give out info to parents without knowing it is 100% accurate.   Jenn Mommy to Cole and MaxOn Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:31 AM, CHRISTINA DUBY <cashawks@...> wrote:  Catie,   You are my girl, my teacher, my best friend across the miles, I truly feel that. You have bene there for me the year that we've both shared smiles and tears over phone, email, etc. I thank you for all your words, advice, and sincerity to each one on this group. You DO only try to help and educate others, you are truly, an angel to many of us. Thank you for your support and helping me get support for Dr. L. I was told he would be added to the list, but you are right, he is not. He has been our blessing for Drue.  Love you and your little men so much, Thank you from all of us!! and JimmyMommy and daddy to Grace, 10, Tryston, 5Drue, 2 out of cast #213* out of cast, down from 26*, started at 40* In second braceSt. Louis Shriners Hospital From: Chad And Catie Diefenbaugh <chadandcatie@...>Subject: Cleansing infantile scoliosis treatment Date: Tuesday, November 16, 2010, 5:57 AM  I also stand firmly behind my original post which was meant to only say Hey Dr. DA said this was a good casting doctor. In the original email to me it further said that not every family can be casted is SLC, the doctors in Denver are good and Dr. DA said they should be trusted. I in no way doubt the information provided to me by another parent to be false and still stand behind the original post.  I am a passionate advocate for my child and all children dealing with this. Whether I like the parents or not I will always support the children. My years journey has taken me on a different path than what this group has to offer. I don't believe scaring new families can be hidden behind what Cotrel/Morel or Min Mehta pioneered. I stand behind my thoughts that the Growth as a Corrective force video should be easily accesible for new families and I am glad that Amil has made it available to families on YOU TUBE.  You should be too. ARISE is defunct and has been since 2008. There is no money that can go their way anymore and having this available to all is in the best interest of ISOP and CAST. It is an education tool not a fundraiser.  St. Louis is a wonderful casting center and Dr. L received hands on training from Dr. S in Chicago. He has casted children with great success. He should be embraced. Contact his office through St. Louis Children's. Add him to the group. You told you would months ago.     You seek to educate me in every reply you send my way. I am educated. I have traveled this road for a year seen friends come and go from this group and never sought to diminish your imprint on casting.  I don't need to be reminded your journey is greater than mine. I am living this right now. I understand your pain as a mother. I don't believe your sacrifice or that of any of us gives Carte Blanche to be dismissive or mean. I have stopped the posts from streaming to my inbox.  If you would like to continue further dialogue off post, I welcome it. Thanks to my girls for all the support. You guys are so mother hen it made me smile! This is a good dialogue, cleansing.  Catie,Cody(9) & 's(23mo)mom (in 5th cast 35*out of cast, 67* start @ 10mo) proudly at Chicago Shriners From: " heather@... " <heather@...> infantile scoliosis treatment Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 11:35:48 PM Subject: Re: Denver & Canada Catie,When did I question Dr. R specifically? I did recently have questionsabout a hosp in Denver because as far as I know, the correct windows arentbeing trimmed and a few Denver families have expressed that their block of casts were removed prematurely. Thanks for the CV, but to my knowledgethis is the 1st mention of Dr. R (?) doing a partial residency at ShrinersIntermountain and certainly the 1st time Ive heard that he casted your friends child. Perhaps, I missed an earlier post on this?Im sorry you are infuriated by my posts. I only try to make thedifferences between casting techniques and principles so families canproperly advocate and develop the best care plan for their child, who may only have a small window to benefit. I have been in the OR with thepioneer for over 25 EDf applications and only share what I have learnedfrom over 8 yrs of Et experience. I can tell you that I am happy thatparents find solid info here on ET principles & EDF technique, but I havenever stated to a parent that the doc they have chosen is unqualified. Ifparents ask if the doc has been trained by the pioneer or one of the core group of surgeons she trained I answer honestly (according to what I knowat the time). I have seen some unbelievable casts over the years and theyhave all come from untrained centers. I have seen many children miss their window to grow straight due to improperly applied casts using Risserprinciples. Ive seen cast sores that are so deep the child is unable totolerate a series of casts for over a year as the wound must heal. Leaving children with deformities they could have avoided.I have stated that to apply proper ET a proper frame is needed. I havestated that properly trimmed windows in front/back are essential toprevent chest wall deformities & address rotation. I have stated thataccording to the pioneer and other experienced ET docs that under armjackets are most effective for curves above T-8/9. I have statedrepeatedly that there are specific ET guidelines to be followed in order for the block of EDF casts to be most effective. And most recently, Istated that hands on training was more effective than a demonstration on avideo monitor. ISOP learned this the hard way as we spent a lot of money doing this in the past and we realized that it wasnt as effective as handson (because most US docs learned only risser).Believe me, I know exactly how scary it is to have a non EDF cast. Mydaughter had them for many years before I was able to bring the pioneer to SLC.If ISOP knows that a new hospital is applying ET, has a frame, is trimmingcorrect windows, following ET principles, are experiencing positiveresults and receives rave reviews from parents, Im the 1st to congratulatethem. If I read a parent has a child in cast with no windows, cast sores,no frame , no training and/or arent following ET principles/guidelinesthen Im a bit hesitant to congratulate as their child may not be getting the best. That's all. Plain & simple.There have been quite a few hospitals over the last 5yrs that have notembraced ET w/ EDF casting (and have been invited to multiple ETP's)andare now getting on board, so its only natural that I would ask families going to some of these hospitals very specific questions in order to helpthem....Not hurt them Catie.Im perplexed on why you feel CAST isnt supportive of new hospitals takingon ET. I strongly believe that pointing out the differences between techniques and principles are helpful for people beginning their ETjourney.I have pointed out good questions to ask about treatment in St. Louis andPortland, so parents could find out for themselves. As far as Chicago isconcerned and Dr. H.? What exactly are you referring to? Chicago isgreat and this continual dialogue about CAST not supporting Chicago isfalse.I hope you remain on CAST and this is resolved. If you no longer want to be a part of CAST, you can remove yourself by unsubscribing.> Dr. Jaren R. is a pediatric orthopedic surgeon with Rocky Mountain> Pediatric> Orthopedics. Dr. R. graduated from University of Iowa College of > Medicine, and> went on to complete his orthopedic surgery residency there as well. He> completed his fellowship in pediatric orthopedic surgery at Primary> Children's> Hospital/Shriners Hospital in Salt Lake City, Utah. > His last name rhymes with Smiley. >> This is the doctor in question. The fact that he did his fellowship> under Dr.> Da in SLC, casted one of our friends children over a year ago with Dr. DA> would> qualify him as having hands on training. It is not my intent to post> information like this to discount in anyway what you are doing. I do > however> find it sad and infuriating when I see parents come to this board, share> their> experience, get educated on the principles of ET/EDF and then be told that> their> doctor is not qualified to apply such casts.  Their is nothing scarier > that> thinking the person who just placed your childs cast is not qualified to> do> it. Instead of saying CONGRATULATIONS to your doctor and center for> taking the> effort to embrace this principle.  Although my original post truly > didn't think> it was this group that discouraged 2 families from casting in Denver, I> now see> I must have been sorely mistaken. It happened with a family in Portland> & St.> Louis. Dr. H in Chicago was said to have not embraced at one time. > Good thing > times have changed.  If this format is to share information and> experience then> why is everything I share chastised or picked apart with the exception of> some> trivial feel good story about my son and a football team. >>> I have remained on this group because I still held out hope that maybe I> could> help one family as my Chicago sisters have helped me. I stayed at the> request> of my center who felt the families I have helped traverse the Shriners > application process and initial cast day at our center was a benefit to> both our> surgeons and those families. After a year of participating though I can> honestly say I am tiring of posting and being picked apart. I have more> constructive things to do with my time and better ways to help the> families at > my center and other centers.  >  Thanks to all the friends I have made in this journey. I wish this> group the> best in their endeavors.  >>   Catie,Cody(9) & 's(23mo)mom (in 5th cast 35*out of cast, 67* > start @> 10mo) proudly at Chicago Shriners>>>>>> ________________________________> From: " heather@... " <heather@...> > infantile scoliosis treatment > Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 1:52:58 PM > Subject: Re: Denver & Canada>>  > Oops. The doc in Denver that has had hands on is Dr. B. at the new Rocky> Mtn Childrens Hospital at PSL...(Not Dr. S.)> >> Thanks for the info, Catie.>>>> F.Y.I.- the doc in SLC held a casting " demonstration " (not hands on>> training)in Halifax, Nova Scotia. There were over 20 Canadian spine >> surgeons there, with all 10 Canadian provinces represented. Its my>> understanding that they were all very interested in learning the EDF>> casting technique, given the high complication rates that all of them>> have >> experienced with growing rods and VEPTR’s. Its FABULOUS that they are>> interested in learning. I hope they are also interested in receiving>> hands on experience. ISOP has learned that watching the EDF casting >> process on a video monitor is not as effective as actual hands on>> training. Many docs have only ever been exposed to Risser, so IMO hands>> on is the way to go. Hopefully, more and more surgeons will become >> experienced with hands on training and the early treatment principles>> for>> the treatment of progressive infantile scoliosis.>> The doc is SLC will be in WI. this week to give a " hands on " training >> tutorial on ET w/ Mehtas EDF, so WI.'s ET Program will now be on the>> list.>> Im not sure who Dr. R is...(?) I know Dr. E at Denver Childrens and can>> say that they are applying ET without trimming a window in back for >> rotation. They are also trimming a small round window in front. Nothing>> like the widely trimmed chest expansion windows w/ rib flaps. I can also>> confirm that Dr. S. at the new Rocky Mtn Childrens Hospital at PSL >> recently had hands on training, has a frame and will be applying>> appropriate windows.>> My goal in giving this info is help parents make the best decision on>> how>> to proceed in their childs care. Infants & children only have a window >> of>> time to grow straight gently & permanently and its best not to miss that>> window with an improperly applied cast.>> Looks like the ET Movement is growing! Way to go SLC!>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just got an email from a friend of mine who's daughter was casted >>> last>>> week in SLC. She was telling me about all the wonderful doctors and>>> centers who have started casting after training with Dr. D in SLC. She>>> said they had mentioned specifically the doctor in Denver, Dr.R. She >>> said>>> that Dr. D felt somehow parents were discouraged from casting in Denver>>> due to lack of training which in his opinion couldn't be farther from>>> the>>> truth. She isn't a apart of this group and I told her I would be happy >>> to>>> post Dr. D's confidence in the doctors and centers in Denver. She said>>> that another of our friends actually had their son casted in SLC with>>> this>>> doctor almost a year ago while he was doing yet another practicum in>>> SLC.>>> I just thought this might give the families who may be on the fence >>> about>>> casting in Denver the boost in confidence they need. Dr. D also>>> mentioned>>> he trained 22 Canadian doctors in Halifax. One from each province which>>> is huge for our >>> Canadian friends.>>>>>> I don't think it was specifically this group who may have discouraged>>> these families, but thought it wouldn't hurt to put the positive out >>> there. The doctors in SLC, Rochester, & Chicago are constantly sharing>>> their facilities and expertise with other Orthopedic Surgeons who are>>> expressing an interest in these kids. This year alone I have watched>>> new>>> centers and families join this group with great stories involving these>>> very doctors. St. Louis, Lexington, Boston, Duke, Kansas City>>> Childrens >>> Mercy and Cincinnati just to name a few. Love to see these families>>> getting the care they need closer to home!>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 From what I understand parents can add doctors to the database.  I don't think or ISOP has a posted list of doctors that ISOP recommends for legal reasons.  Here is the link to where you can add your doctor.  infantile scoliosis treatment/database?method=reportRows & tbl=4 Please if your doctor is trained add them to the group so others can benefit from this information.  You can also have them or their care coordinator contact .  I am pretty sure that would be more than happy to recommend a doctor once she has SEEN that they have the correct table and are applying the correct cur outs and have the correct anchoring on the hips.  I know she likes to confirm with them, not because she doesn't believe CAST members or doctors on their word, but because there is SO much misinformation out there and sometimes parents and doctors are unaware that Mehta's techniques are not being completely followed and doesn't not want to give out info to parents without knowing it is 100% accurate.   Jenn Mommy to Cole and MaxOn Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:31 AM, CHRISTINA DUBY <cashawks@...> wrote:  Catie,   You are my girl, my teacher, my best friend across the miles, I truly feel that. You have bene there for me the year that we've both shared smiles and tears over phone, email, etc. I thank you for all your words, advice, and sincerity to each one on this group. You DO only try to help and educate others, you are truly, an angel to many of us. Thank you for your support and helping me get support for Dr. L. I was told he would be added to the list, but you are right, he is not. He has been our blessing for Drue.  Love you and your little men so much, Thank you from all of us!! and JimmyMommy and daddy to Grace, 10, Tryston, 5Drue, 2 out of cast #213* out of cast, down from 26*, started at 40* In second braceSt. Louis Shriners Hospital From: Chad And Catie Diefenbaugh <chadandcatie@...>Subject: Cleansing infantile scoliosis treatment Date: Tuesday, November 16, 2010, 5:57 AM  I also stand firmly behind my original post which was meant to only say Hey Dr. DA said this was a good casting doctor. In the original email to me it further said that not every family can be casted is SLC, the doctors in Denver are good and Dr. DA said they should be trusted. I in no way doubt the information provided to me by another parent to be false and still stand behind the original post.  I am a passionate advocate for my child and all children dealing with this. Whether I like the parents or not I will always support the children. My years journey has taken me on a different path than what this group has to offer. I don't believe scaring new families can be hidden behind what Cotrel/Morel or Min Mehta pioneered. I stand behind my thoughts that the Growth as a Corrective force video should be easily accesible for new families and I am glad that Amil has made it available to families on YOU TUBE.  You should be too. ARISE is defunct and has been since 2008. There is no money that can go their way anymore and having this available to all is in the best interest of ISOP and CAST. It is an education tool not a fundraiser.  St. Louis is a wonderful casting center and Dr. L received hands on training from Dr. S in Chicago. He has casted children with great success. He should be embraced. Contact his office through St. Louis Children's. Add him to the group. You told you would months ago.     You seek to educate me in every reply you send my way. I am educated. I have traveled this road for a year seen friends come and go from this group and never sought to diminish your imprint on casting.  I don't need to be reminded your journey is greater than mine. I am living this right now. I understand your pain as a mother. I don't believe your sacrifice or that of any of us gives Carte Blanche to be dismissive or mean. I have stopped the posts from streaming to my inbox.  If you would like to continue further dialogue off post, I welcome it. Thanks to my girls for all the support. You guys are so mother hen it made me smile! This is a good dialogue, cleansing.  Catie,Cody(9) & 's(23mo)mom (in 5th cast 35*out of cast, 67* start @ 10mo) proudly at Chicago Shriners From: " heather@... " <heather@...> infantile scoliosis treatment Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 11:35:48 PM Subject: Re: Denver & Canada Catie,When did I question Dr. R specifically? I did recently have questionsabout a hosp in Denver because as far as I know, the correct windows arentbeing trimmed and a few Denver families have expressed that their block of casts were removed prematurely. Thanks for the CV, but to my knowledgethis is the 1st mention of Dr. R (?) doing a partial residency at ShrinersIntermountain and certainly the 1st time Ive heard that he casted your friends child. Perhaps, I missed an earlier post on this?Im sorry you are infuriated by my posts. I only try to make thedifferences between casting techniques and principles so families canproperly advocate and develop the best care plan for their child, who may only have a small window to benefit. I have been in the OR with thepioneer for over 25 EDf applications and only share what I have learnedfrom over 8 yrs of Et experience. I can tell you that I am happy thatparents find solid info here on ET principles & EDF technique, but I havenever stated to a parent that the doc they have chosen is unqualified. Ifparents ask if the doc has been trained by the pioneer or one of the core group of surgeons she trained I answer honestly (according to what I knowat the time). I have seen some unbelievable casts over the years and theyhave all come from untrained centers. I have seen many children miss their window to grow straight due to improperly applied casts using Risserprinciples. Ive seen cast sores that are so deep the child is unable totolerate a series of casts for over a year as the wound must heal. Leaving children with deformities they could have avoided.I have stated that to apply proper ET a proper frame is needed. I havestated that properly trimmed windows in front/back are essential toprevent chest wall deformities & address rotation. I have stated thataccording to the pioneer and other experienced ET docs that under armjackets are most effective for curves above T-8/9. I have statedrepeatedly that there are specific ET guidelines to be followed in order for the block of EDF casts to be most effective. And most recently, Istated that hands on training was more effective than a demonstration on avideo monitor. ISOP learned this the hard way as we spent a lot of money doing this in the past and we realized that it wasnt as effective as handson (because most US docs learned only risser).Believe me, I know exactly how scary it is to have a non EDF cast. Mydaughter had them for many years before I was able to bring the pioneer to SLC.If ISOP knows that a new hospital is applying ET, has a frame, is trimmingcorrect windows, following ET principles, are experiencing positiveresults and receives rave reviews from parents, Im the 1st to congratulatethem. If I read a parent has a child in cast with no windows, cast sores,no frame , no training and/or arent following ET principles/guidelinesthen Im a bit hesitant to congratulate as their child may not be getting the best. That's all. Plain & simple.There have been quite a few hospitals over the last 5yrs that have notembraced ET w/ EDF casting (and have been invited to multiple ETP's)andare now getting on board, so its only natural that I would ask families going to some of these hospitals very specific questions in order to helpthem....Not hurt them Catie.Im perplexed on why you feel CAST isnt supportive of new hospitals takingon ET. I strongly believe that pointing out the differences between techniques and principles are helpful for people beginning their ETjourney.I have pointed out good questions to ask about treatment in St. Louis andPortland, so parents could find out for themselves. As far as Chicago isconcerned and Dr. H.? What exactly are you referring to? Chicago isgreat and this continual dialogue about CAST not supporting Chicago isfalse.I hope you remain on CAST and this is resolved. If you no longer want to be a part of CAST, you can remove yourself by unsubscribing.> Dr. Jaren R. is a pediatric orthopedic surgeon with Rocky Mountain> Pediatric> Orthopedics. Dr. R. graduated from University of Iowa College of > Medicine, and> went on to complete his orthopedic surgery residency there as well. He> completed his fellowship in pediatric orthopedic surgery at Primary> Children's> Hospital/Shriners Hospital in Salt Lake City, Utah. > His last name rhymes with Smiley. >> This is the doctor in question. The fact that he did his fellowship> under Dr.> Da in SLC, casted one of our friends children over a year ago with Dr. DA> would> qualify him as having hands on training. It is not my intent to post> information like this to discount in anyway what you are doing. I do > however> find it sad and infuriating when I see parents come to this board, share> their> experience, get educated on the principles of ET/EDF and then be told that> their> doctor is not qualified to apply such casts.  Their is nothing scarier > that> thinking the person who just placed your childs cast is not qualified to> do> it. Instead of saying CONGRATULATIONS to your doctor and center for> taking the> effort to embrace this principle.  Although my original post truly > didn't think> it was this group that discouraged 2 families from casting in Denver, I> now see> I must have been sorely mistaken. It happened with a family in Portland> & St.> Louis. Dr. H in Chicago was said to have not embraced at one time. > Good thing > times have changed.  If this format is to share information and> experience then> why is everything I share chastised or picked apart with the exception of> some> trivial feel good story about my son and a football team. >>> I have remained on this group because I still held out hope that maybe I> could> help one family as my Chicago sisters have helped me. I stayed at the> request> of my center who felt the families I have helped traverse the Shriners > application process and initial cast day at our center was a benefit to> both our> surgeons and those families. After a year of participating though I can> honestly say I am tiring of posting and being picked apart. I have more> constructive things to do with my time and better ways to help the> families at > my center and other centers.  >  Thanks to all the friends I have made in this journey. I wish this> group the> best in their endeavors.  >>   Catie,Cody(9) & 's(23mo)mom (in 5th cast 35*out of cast, 67* > start @> 10mo) proudly at Chicago Shriners>>>>>> ________________________________> From: " heather@... " <heather@...> > infantile scoliosis treatment > Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 1:52:58 PM > Subject: Re: Denver & Canada>>  > Oops. The doc in Denver that has had hands on is Dr. B. at the new Rocky> Mtn Childrens Hospital at PSL...(Not Dr. S.)> >> Thanks for the info, Catie.>>>> F.Y.I.- the doc in SLC held a casting " demonstration " (not hands on>> training)in Halifax, Nova Scotia. There were over 20 Canadian spine >> surgeons there, with all 10 Canadian provinces represented. Its my>> understanding that they were all very interested in learning the EDF>> casting technique, given the high complication rates that all of them>> have >> experienced with growing rods and VEPTR’s. Its FABULOUS that they are>> interested in learning. I hope they are also interested in receiving>> hands on experience. ISOP has learned that watching the EDF casting >> process on a video monitor is not as effective as actual hands on>> training. Many docs have only ever been exposed to Risser, so IMO hands>> on is the way to go. Hopefully, more and more surgeons will become >> experienced with hands on training and the early treatment principles>> for>> the treatment of progressive infantile scoliosis.>> The doc is SLC will be in WI. this week to give a " hands on " training >> tutorial on ET w/ Mehtas EDF, so WI.'s ET Program will now be on the>> list.>> Im not sure who Dr. R is...(?) I know Dr. E at Denver Childrens and can>> say that they are applying ET without trimming a window in back for >> rotation. They are also trimming a small round window in front. Nothing>> like the widely trimmed chest expansion windows w/ rib flaps. I can also>> confirm that Dr. S. at the new Rocky Mtn Childrens Hospital at PSL >> recently had hands on training, has a frame and will be applying>> appropriate windows.>> My goal in giving this info is help parents make the best decision on>> how>> to proceed in their childs care. Infants & children only have a window >> of>> time to grow straight gently & permanently and its best not to miss that>> window with an improperly applied cast.>> Looks like the ET Movement is growing! Way to go SLC!>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just got an email from a friend of mine who's daughter was casted >>> last>>> week in SLC. She was telling me about all the wonderful doctors and>>> centers who have started casting after training with Dr. D in SLC. She>>> said they had mentioned specifically the doctor in Denver, Dr.R. She >>> said>>> that Dr. D felt somehow parents were discouraged from casting in Denver>>> due to lack of training which in his opinion couldn't be farther from>>> the>>> truth. She isn't a apart of this group and I told her I would be happy >>> to>>> post Dr. D's confidence in the doctors and centers in Denver. She said>>> that another of our friends actually had their son casted in SLC with>>> this>>> doctor almost a year ago while he was doing yet another practicum in>>> SLC.>>> I just thought this might give the families who may be on the fence >>> about>>> casting in Denver the boost in confidence they need. Dr. D also>>> mentioned>>> he trained 22 Canadian doctors in Halifax. One from each province which>>> is huge for our >>> Canadian friends.>>>>>> I don't think it was specifically this group who may have discouraged>>> these families, but thought it wouldn't hurt to put the positive out >>> there. The doctors in SLC, Rochester, & Chicago are constantly sharing>>> their facilities and expertise with other Orthopedic Surgeons who are>>> expressing an interest in these kids. This year alone I have watched>>> new>>> centers and families join this group with great stories involving these>>> very doctors. St. Louis, Lexington, Boston, Duke, Kansas City>>> Childrens >>> Mercy and Cincinnati just to name a few. Love to see these families>>> getting the care they need closer to home!>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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