Re: Four year old cannot talk

March 27, 2012

Hi, I am not sure about the vaccine aspect, but I did want to tell you that all children qualify for services through the school districts. I am not sure how you go about it... But I would call the local elementary school and ask how he can get a speech evaluation. I know when my son was 3 they did a pre-screening in RI for any child in the district (no cost). Good luck to you and your family!On Mar 27, 2012, at 9:49 PM, "nanack909" <nanack@...> wrote:

Hi everybody,

I believe I joined the list about 5 years ago when my grandson and his wife were expecting their first baby and I was looking for help in warning them about why not to allow the baby to be vacced. When everything I said and sent to them did not change their minds I went inactive on the list but have continued my involvement in no vax for dogs.

NOw that dear little boy is 4 1/2 years old and other than some simple words, which most 2 year olds can say, this child cannot talk! He spouts alot of gibberish which his parents kiddingly say is his martian language but I have never heard him put one sentence together that is understandable.

My question to you human vac experts is have you ever seen this speech malfunction as a result of vaccinations? He is not autistic but is somewhat over excitable, shrieks alot and strikes me as on the nervous side. It may be a result of his home environment as his mother seems overwrought, she now has a 10 month old daughter who wakes up every night and cries alot but would this cause him to not be able to talk even on a 3 year old level? And even before the baby was born it was obvious that was way behind in putting words together.

The parents cannot afford a professional evaluation of this child and I am concerned that when he starts pre kindergarten in August he will be teased by other kids which could have a disasterous effect on his emotions and cause him to hate school.

I greatly appreciate any thoughts you may have on this strange condition in our family.

March 27, 2012

Hi :

In my work I have seen a number of children who either have had speech and

then lost it or simply did not develop it appropriately and often parents

will mention vaccinations as an area of concern.

Speech is dependent on many neurological milestones ( Brain development)

being put into place and if these are not efficient speech will be

difficult. Vaccinations for some appear to inhibit the efficient

development of these neurological milestones or contribute to other

underlying concerns. If the vaccinations caused metabolic issues this can

inhibit typical brain development as well.

What is his level of receptive language or his understanding of speech?

Does he appear to understand like a typical 4 1/2 year old or is this

delayed as well? It is common to have a gap between receptive language

(understanding) and expressive language or his output of speech-talking.

Most often the expressive language is the one lagging behind. What is his

ability to follow directions like? Is he a picky eater? Can he chew his

food well? Has he had an audiogram and tympanogram done to rule out any

hearing issues? What is his coordination like? It may be that his gibberish

is actually his attempt to mimic sounds but his articulation is so poor that

you can't understand it and if he has low processing he will have difficulty

putting an appropriate length sentence together.

He could be somewhat " sensory " meaning that he may be bringing in more

information from his sensory environment or is bringing it in in a distorted

way which can be interpreted by the child as painful. This often exhibits as

the excitable child, nervous child, etc.

I don't know if I am allowed to direct you to specific websites that may

help with this. If any of the moderators are reading this email is this

permissible? And if so I can give you some to investigate. There is lots

you can do just by being a detective, gathering specific books from

libraries, going on the internet, etc. There are lots of pioneers out there

( many on this list serve) who have done what others have said are

impossible so don't loose hope.

I got involved in the work that I do because of my son, who has autism and

was likely vaccination damaged. So there is lots of potential for your

great grandson to move forward. This is actually a pretty common concern,

speech delays, although when it is your child or grand child it often seems

like you are the only one dealing with this. I remember feeling that way

about my son. He had no speech delays but many other concerns-behaviour was

a big one for us.

Sylvia from Alberta Canada

--------------------------------------------------

From: " nanack909 " <nanack@...>

Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 8:49 PM

Subject: Four year old cannot talk

> Hi everybody,

> I believe I joined the list about 5 years ago when my grandson and his

> wife were expecting their first baby and I was looking for help in warning

> them about why not to allow the baby to be vacced. When everything I said

> and sent to them did not change their minds I went inactive on the list

> but have continued my involvement in no vax for dogs.

> NOw that dear little boy is 4 1/2 years old and other than some simple

> words, which most 2 year olds can say, this child cannot talk! He spouts

> alot of gibberish which his parents kiddingly say is his martian language

> but I have never heard him put one sentence together that is

> understandable.

> My question to you human vac experts is have you ever seen this speech

> malfunction as a result of vaccinations? He is not autistic but is

> somewhat over excitable, shrieks alot and strikes me as on the nervous

> side. It may be a result of his home environment as his mother seems

> overwrought, she now has a 10 month old daughter who wakes up every night

> and cries alot but would this cause him to not be able to talk even on a 3

> year old level? And even before the baby was born it was obvious that

> was way behind in putting words together.

> The parents cannot afford a professional evaluation of this child and I am

> concerned that when he starts pre kindergarten in August he will be teased

> by other kids which could have a disasterous effect on his emotions and

> cause him to hate school.

> I greatly appreciate any thoughts you may have on this strange condition

> in our family.

>

> ------------------------------------

>

March 27, 2012

I have done some research into Central Auditory Processing Disorder. I do not know what causes it. It could be vaccines because it is neurological. But in a nutshell CAPD is when the brain is unable to hear. The child hears with his ears normally. But the brain is unable to process the information and what he actually hears is garbled. In the extreme they cannot talk although are very bright. Testing is done with an audiologist specializing in CAPD. There is a an excellent book entitled "Like Sound Through Water: A Mother's Journey Through Auditory Processing Disorder" by Karin Foli. and When the Brain Can't Hear by Bell. Maybe that will provide some clues.

Hope that provides some ideas to explore.

Vicki

From: nanack909 <nanack@...>Vaccinations Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 10:49 PMSubject: Four year old cannot talk

Hi everybody,I believe I joined the list about 5 years ago when my grandson and his wife were expecting their first baby and I was looking for help in warning them about why not to allow the baby to be vacced. When everything I said and sent to them did not change their minds I went inactive on the list but have continued my involvement in no vax for dogs.NOw that dear little boy is 4 1/2 years old and other than some simple words, which most 2 year olds can say, this child cannot talk! He spouts alot of gibberish which his parents kiddingly say is his martian language but I have never heard him put one sentence together that is understandable. My question to you human vac experts is have you ever seen this speech malfunction as a result of vaccinations? He is not autistic but is somewhat over excitable, shrieks alot and strikes me as on the nervous side. It may be a result of his home environment as his mother seems overwrought, she now

has a 10 month old daughter who wakes up every night and cries alot but would this cause him to not be able to talk even on a 3 year old level? And even before the baby was born it was obvious that was way behind in putting words together.The parents cannot afford a professional evaluation of this child and I am concerned that when he starts pre kindergarten in August he will be teased by other kids which could have a disasterous effect on his emotions and cause him to hate school.I greatly appreciate any thoughts you may have on this strange condition in our family.

March 27, 2012

At 07:49 PM 3/27/2012, you wrote:

>Hi everybody,

>I believe I joined the list about 5 years ago when my grandson and

>his wife were expecting their first baby and I was looking for help

>in warning them about why not to allow the baby to be vacced. When

>everything I said and sent to them did not change their minds I went

>inactive on the list but have continued my involvement in no vax for dogs.

Oh , I'm so sorry

>NOw that dear little boy is 4 1/2 years old and other than some

>simple words, which most 2 year olds can say, this child cannot

>talk! He spouts alot of gibberish which his parents kiddingly say

>is his martian language but I have never heard him put one sentence

>together that is understandable.

>My question to you human vac experts is have you ever seen this

>speech malfunction as a result of vaccinations?

Most certainly - speech delays are very common as vaccine injuries

(whether doctors admit it, its another thing)

>He is not autistic but is somewhat over excitable, shrieks alot and

>strikes me as on the nervous side.

well, those certainly can be related to vaccines too

>It may be a result of his home environment as his mother seems

>overwrought, she now has a 10 month old daughter who wakes up every

>night and cries alot but would this cause him to not be able to talk

>even on a 3 year old level? And even before the baby was born it

>was obvious that was way behind in putting words together.

>The parents cannot afford a professional evaluation of this child

>and I am concerned that when he starts pre kindergarten in August he

>will be teased by other kids which could have a disasterous effect

>on his emotions and cause him to hate school.

>I greatly appreciate any thoughts you may have on this strange

>condition in our family.

This more than likely is what you warned them about. More vaccine

pre-kindergarten could put him over the edge for good.

Sheri

>

>------------------------------------

>

March 27, 2012

most certainly share, nancy

Sheri

list owner

At 08:27 PM 3/27/2012, you wrote:

>Hi :

>

>In my work I have seen a number of children who either have had speech and

>then lost it or simply did not develop it appropriately and often parents

>will mention vaccinations as an area of concern.

>

>Speech is dependent on many neurological milestones ( Brain development)

>being put into place and if these are not efficient speech will be

>difficult. Vaccinations for some appear to inhibit the efficient

>development of these neurological milestones or contribute to other

>underlying concerns. If the vaccinations caused metabolic issues this can

>inhibit typical brain development as well.

>

>What is his level of receptive language or his understanding of speech?

>Does he appear to understand like a typical 4 1/2 year old or is this

>delayed as well? It is common to have a gap between receptive language

>(understanding) and expressive language or his output of speech-talking.

>Most often the expressive language is the one lagging behind. What is his

>ability to follow directions like? Is he a picky eater? Can he chew his

>food well? Has he had an audiogram and tympanogram done to rule out any

>hearing issues? What is his coordination like? It may be that his gibberish

>is actually his attempt to mimic sounds but his articulation is so poor that

>you can't understand it and if he has low processing he will have difficulty

>putting an appropriate length sentence together.

>

>He could be somewhat " sensory " meaning that he may be bringing in more

>information from his sensory environment or is bringing it in in a distorted

>way which can be interpreted by the child as painful. This often exhibits as

>the excitable child, nervous child, etc.

>

>I don't know if I am allowed to direct you to specific websites that may

>help with this. If any of the moderators are reading this email is this

>permissible? And if so I can give you some to investigate. There is lots

>you can do just by being a detective, gathering specific books from

>libraries, going on the internet, etc. There are lots of pioneers out there

>( many on this list serve) who have done what others have said are

>impossible so don't loose hope.

>

>I got involved in the work that I do because of my son, who has autism and

>was likely vaccination damaged. So there is lots of potential for your

>great grandson to move forward. This is actually a pretty common concern,

>speech delays, although when it is your child or grand child it often seems

>like you are the only one dealing with this. I remember feeling that way

>about my son. He had no speech delays but many other concerns-behaviour was

>a big one for us.

>

>Sylvia from Alberta Canada

>

>--------------------------------------------------

>From: " nanack909 " <nanack@...>

>Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 8:49 PM

><Vaccinations >

>Subject: Four year old cannot talk

>

> > Hi everybody,

> > I believe I joined the list about 5 years ago when my grandson and his

> > wife were expecting their first baby and I was looking for help in warning

> > them about why not to allow the baby to be vacced. When everything I said

> > and sent to them did not change their minds I went inactive on the list

> > but have continued my involvement in no vax for dogs.

> > NOw that dear little boy is 4 1/2 years old and other than some simple

> > words, which most 2 year olds can say, this child cannot talk! He spouts

> > alot of gibberish which his parents kiddingly say is his martian language

> > but I have never heard him put one sentence together that is

> > understandable.

> > My question to you human vac experts is have you ever seen this speech

> > malfunction as a result of vaccinations? He is not autistic but is

> > somewhat over excitable, shrieks alot and strikes me as on the nervous

> > side. It may be a result of his home environment as his mother seems

> > overwrought, she now has a 10 month old daughter who wakes up every night

> > and cries alot but would this cause him to not be able to talk even on a 3

> > year old level? And even before the baby was born it was obvious that

> > was way behind in putting words together.

> > The parents cannot afford a professional evaluation of this child and I am

> > concerned that when he starts pre kindergarten in August he will be teased

> > by other kids which could have a disasterous effect on his emotions and

> > cause him to hate school.

> > I greatly appreciate any thoughts you may have on this strange condition

> > in our family.

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

March 28, 2012

I'm so sorry to hear this. Would they be open to taking him to a homeopath? I

know in the case of autism where a child cannot speak, homeopathy can

fix/help/cure that, so I don't see why it would be any different here.

Best wishes,

Alina

>

> Hi everybody,

> I believe I joined the list about 5 years ago when my grandson and his wife

were expecting their first baby and I was looking for help in warning them about

why not to allow the baby to be vacced. When everything I said and sent to them

did not change their minds I went inactive on the list but have continued my

involvement in no vax for dogs.

> NOw that dear little boy is 4 1/2 years old and other than some simple words,

which most 2 year olds can say, this child cannot talk! He spouts alot of

gibberish which his parents kiddingly say is his martian language but I have

never heard him put one sentence together that is understandable.

> My question to you human vac experts is have you ever seen this speech

malfunction as a result of vaccinations? He is not autistic but is somewhat

over excitable, shrieks alot and strikes me as on the nervous side. It may be

a result of his home environment as his mother seems overwrought, she now has a

10 month old daughter who wakes up every night and cries alot but would this

cause him to not be able to talk even on a 3 year old level? And even before

the baby was born it was obvious that was way behind in putting words

together.

> The parents cannot afford a professional evaluation of this child and I am

concerned that when he starts pre kindergarten in August he will be teased by

other kids which could have a disasterous effect on his emotions and cause him

to hate school.

> I greatly appreciate any thoughts you may have on this strange condition in

our family.

>

March 28, 2012

Hi, ,

One of my sons was the same way--gibberish, couldn't understand him. He was vaccinated. We did have him tested through the public schools at age four. We were told he could talk based on his ability to form certain sounds, but he "chose not to" (?!?) and to recheck in a year. Hopefully they're more knowledgable now--this was in 1995 when autism was beginning to be known about but not much.

Soon after that, a Sensory Integration therapist came into his school (Montessori) and one of the teachers learned how to use some of the techniques. One was putting my son in a giant swinging sling and he did right/left arm crossover movements. After about two sessions he began to speak in full, coherent sentences about normal things. He was 4 1/2--as was Einstein when he finally started to talk, by the way. So, it didn't take much and the person was barely trained in it. Here's a website for one of the first books on SI: (http://out-of-sync-child.com/)

Later on my son had trouble reading and SI helped there, too. Other symptoms were poor handwriting. That and the speech are pretty much what Sylvia was talking about with expressive language problems. He had trouble getting things from his brain to his lips and fingers. He saw a speech-pathologist, too, who had him work with kids who had the CAPD that Vicki mentioned. He did real well with them, although she said he didn't have CAPD (who knows, though?).

Although he consistently did poorly on the verbal parts of tests like SAT's and reading comprehension, he excelled in other areas and is just finishing his first year of college after a successful high school career. He is extremely bright, and the one I turn to for help figuring things out. And he also has beautiful handwriting now, too.

Definitely look into the Sensory Integration therapy. It might come under Occupational Therapy. The public schools should offer services for that (and for free), so suggest they have him tested, and for CAPD, too.

Do his parents understand the connection to speech problems and vaccines? Do you think they'll stop vaccinating him?

Winnie

Four year old cannot talkVaccinations > Hi everybody,> I believe I joined the list about 5 years ago when my grandson > and his wife were expecting their first baby and I was looking > for help in warning them about why not to allow the baby to be > vacced. When everything I said and sent to them did not change > their minds I went inactive on the list but have continued my > involvement in no vax for dogs.> NOw that dear little boy is 4 1/2 years old and other than some > simple words, which most 2 year olds can say, this child cannot > talk! He spouts alot of gibberish which his parents kiddingly > say is his martian language but I have never heard him put one > sentence together that is understandable. > My question to you human vac experts is have you ever seen this > speech malfunction as a result of vaccinations? He is not > autistic but is somewhat over excitable, shrieks alot and > strikes me as on the nervous side. It may be a result of his > home environment as his mother seems overwrought, she now has a > 10 month old daughter who wakes up every night and cries alot > but would this cause him to not be able to talk even on a 3 year > old level? And even before the baby was born it was obvious > that was way behind in putting words together.> The parents cannot afford a professional evaluation of this > child and I am concerned that when he starts pre kindergarten in > August he will be teased by other kids which could have a > disasterous effect on his emotions and cause him to hate school.> I greatly appreciate any thoughts you may have on this strange > condition in our family.> > > >

March 28, 2012

It's not just vaccines, either. Ultrasound scans can cause speech delay according to some studies. My almost 5 year old is around 1 year delayed with his speech, he didn't start talking till nearly 3 years old and he has just started speech therapy. His therapist diagnosed him with a 'severe speech sound defect' - he has never been vaccinated, had no antibiotics, no vit K, no medicine of any kind except homeopathy and supplements and he has never had any major illness (2 bouts of gastro), he was also breastfed till nearly 4 years old.I do wonder about the scans because I since read they've been linked to left handedness, ADHD and speech delay. I had 3 scans when pregnant with him. The info is on the AIMS

website. From: "wharrison@..." <wharrison@...> Vaccinations Sent: Wednesday, 28 March 2012, 15:35 Subject: Re: Four year old cannot talk

Hi, ,

One of my sons was the same way--gibberish, couldn't understand him. He was vaccinated. We did have him tested through the public schools at age four. We were told he could talk based on his ability to form certain sounds, but he "chose not to" (?!?) and to recheck in a year. Hopefully they're more knowledgable now--this was in 1995 when autism was beginning to be known about but not much.

Soon after that, a Sensory Integration therapist came into his school (Montessori) and one of the teachers learned how to use some of the techniques. One was putting my son in a giant swinging sling and he did right/left arm crossover movements. After about two sessions he began to speak in full, coherent sentences about normal things. He was 4 1/2--as was Einstein when he finally started to talk, by the way. So, it didn't take much and the person was barely trained in it. Here's a website for one of the first books on SI: (http://out-of-sync-child.com/)

Later on my son had trouble reading and SI helped there, too. Other symptoms were poor handwriting. That and the speech are pretty much what Sylvia was talking about with expressive language problems. He had trouble getting things from his brain to his lips and fingers. He saw a speech-pathologist, too, who had him work with kids who had the CAPD that Vicki mentioned. He did real well with them, although she said he didn't have CAPD (who knows, though?).

Although he consistently did poorly on the verbal parts of tests like SAT's and reading comprehension, he excelled in other areas and is just finishing his first year of college after a successful high school career. He is extremely bright, and the one I turn to for help figuring things out. And he also has beautiful handwriting now, too.

Definitely look into the Sensory Integration therapy. It might come under Occupational Therapy. The public schools should offer services for that (and for free), so suggest they have him tested, and for CAPD, too.

Do his parents understand the connection to speech problems and vaccines? Do you think they'll stop vaccinating him?

Winnie

Four year old cannot talkVaccinations > Hi everybody,> I believe I joined the list about 5 years ago when my grandson > and his wife were expecting their first baby and I was looking > for help in warning them about why not to allow the baby to be > vacced. When everything I said and sent to them did not change > their minds I went inactive on the list but have continued my > involvement in no vax for dogs.> NOw that dear little boy is 4 1/2 years old and other than some > simple words, which most 2 year olds can say, this child cannot > talk! He spouts alot of gibberish which his parents kiddingly > say is his martian language but I have never heard him put one > sentence together that is understandable. > My

question to you human vac experts is have you ever seen this > speech malfunction as a result of vaccinations? He is not > autistic but is somewhat over excitable, shrieks alot and > strikes me as on the nervous side. It may be a result of his > home environment as his mother seems overwrought, she now has a > 10 month old daughter who wakes up every night and cries alot > but would this cause him to not be able to talk even on a 3 year > old level? And even before the baby was born it was obvious > that was way behind in putting words together.> The parents cannot afford a professional evaluation of this > child and I am concerned that when he starts pre kindergarten in > August he will be teased by other kids which could have a > disasterous effect on his emotions and cause him to hate school.> I greatly appreciate any thoughts you may have on this

strange > condition in our family.> > > >

March 28, 2012

Hi :

Central Auditory Processing is a very common diagnosis-many children and adults have poor auditory processing.

There are a number of pieces to the auditory centre so you need to sort it out to determine which are the concerns for your child. The first thing to do is make sure that the child has a good quantity of hearing- an audiogram and tympanogram will do this. The tympanogram is important because it rules out fluid in the middle ear which can distort sounds making it hard for the person to catch the edges of sound so that they can't articulate properly. The quality of the sounds we hear-getting all the edges to sound is called tonal processing. If you have never heard something pronounced clearly before it is hard to then output this clearly. You can have good quantity hearing but poor quality. This is the most common scenario. Typically these kids will have hyper sensitive hearing or have distractions to sound but still have poor tonal processing.

If your little grandson had ear infections- particularly between birth to two years of age this can dramatically impact the development of the auditory system as this system does much of its development in these two early years when the brain and environment are interacting in a specific way to develop the system. This is what we call random input. Now for your little guy and others we need to go back and do specific input so that the brain can continue these important stages of development. If he still has problems with ear infections or fluid and congestion in the sinuses you need to look at addressing that because it will continue to be a hindrance for him.

I am hunting around trying to find the article on it on one of our websites but have come up empty handed. I am assuming that you can't put attachments on here. You can email me privately and I will get it to you. I also a handout on how to work with auditory processing to bring it up. You will have to modify it a little bit because of his age. The need to get that auditory processing appropriate is so important because of the impact it has on so many aspects of our lives; following directions, age appropriate social and behavioural ability, speech -both receptive and expressive, impulse control, reading comprehension, focus, distractions, etc, etc.

Look up any information you can find on Oral Motor Therapy by Rosenfeld . She is an amazing speech therapist who is also trained in oral motor therapy. In my humble opinion an amazing woman who has helped so many children and adults with speech. She works it quite differently. She works from the foundation up so rather than working at tongue placement for certain sounds she first makes sure the child actually has good feeling inside his mouth so that he can control his tongue well. l Speech is the finest of the fine motor activities.

If you go to the website: www.icando.org there are lots of articles on there to read. We are not qualified to diagnose but rather look to one of the main root causes-the central nervous system-specifically the brain. So, read all the articles because you can probably pull things from many of them. If you go to the members section look up Kay Ness of S.E.N.C. and go to her website. She has some "Free Stuff" on there which is worth a lot. It will start helping with neurological organization-getting those foundational pieces put in better, will help with sensory issues -the Tactile Sequence. I think there is one there on teaching Books with Highlighted words or something to that affect. We have that if you work at teaching the child to read in a specific way that is brain friendly- this often will help pull in language.

You can probably get this book, "How to Teach Your Baby to Read" by Glenn Doman. Kay also has the Obstacle course on there-hugely important. This can help the brain have better motor control to organize speech along with developing good some sensory integration, and very important lower level brain development. Listening to classical music helps as it is neurologically organizing-studies out there support it. Bach and Mozart are great. A few kids find the music irritating. If that is the cause there is some sensory stuff going so stop listening for now because we never want to put the child in a more agitated state.

If there is heavy metal toxicity or other stuff going on from the vaccines or other sources you want to look at getting that addressed as well because it can definitely slow the progress of neurological development. We see kids that will make good progress with us and then kind of hit a wall or their progress is always made with much effort and this is when we encourage parents to look at the metabolic: cleaning up diet, looking at vaccines issues, if the child has allergies, is often sick, asthma, eczema, etc. Some kids just scream, "metabolic concerns" as soon as you see them. They just don't look well, seem hyperactive, are pale, circles under their eyes, pink ears, etc. In my opinion we all need some metabolic work because we live in a toxic environment, our food sources are not great anymore, vaccines, etc, etc. You often find that as you clean up the child from a metabolic perspective he becomes less hyperactive, agitated, sensory, etc.

The vaccines may or may not have caused the speech concerns or may have worsened an underlying situation. Sensory integration is a huge thing as well-tactile sequence helps with that, getting those lower levels organized helps. Lots you can do to make things better.

Sylvia

From: Vicki Geraci

Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 9:48 PM

Vaccinations

Subject: Re: Four year old cannot talk

I have done some research into Central Auditory Processing Disorder. I do not know what causes it. It could be vaccines because it is neurological. But in a nutshell CAPD is when the brain is unable to hear. The child hears with his ears normally. But the brain is unable to process the information and what he actually hears is garbled. In the extreme they cannot talk although are very bright. Testing is done with an audiologist specializing in CAPD. There is a an excellent book entitled "Like Sound Through Water: A Mother's Journey Through Auditory Processing Disorder" by Karin Foli. and When the Brain Can't Hear by Bell. Maybe that will provide some clues.

Hope that provides some ideas to explore.

Vicki

From: nanack909 <nanack@...>Vaccinations Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 10:49 PMSubject: Four year old cannot talk

Hi everybody,I believe I joined the list about 5 years ago when my grandson and his wife were expecting their first baby and I was looking for help in warning them about why not to allow the baby to be vacced. When everything I said and sent to them did not change their minds I went inactive on the list but have continued my involvement in no vax for dogs.NOw that dear little boy is 4 1/2 years old and other than some simple words, which most 2 year olds can say, this child cannot talk! He spouts alot of gibberish which his parents kiddingly say is his martian language but I have never heard him put one sentence together that is understandable. My question to you human vac experts is have you ever seen this speech malfunction as a result of vaccinations? He is not autistic but is somewhat over excitable, shrieks alot and strikes me as on the nervous side. It may be a result of his home environment as his mother seems overwrought, she now has a 10 month old daughter who wakes up every night and cries alot but would this cause him to not be able to talk even on a 3 year old level? And even before the baby was born it was obvious that was way behind in putting words together.The parents cannot afford a professional evaluation of this child and I am concerned that when he starts pre kindergarten in August he will be teased by other kids which could have a disasterous effect on his emotions and cause him to hate school.I greatly appreciate any thoughts you may have on this strange condition in our family.

March 28, 2012

Good point. I had a few ultrasounds done with mine, too: at 12 and 16 weeks, and during labor, too (he was breech). I've heard it affects the hearing. It would make sense it could then affect speech.

Winnie Four year old cannot talk> Vaccinations > > > Hi everybody,> > I believe I joined the list about 5 years ago when my grandson > > and his wife were expecting their first baby and I was looking > > for help in warning them about why not to allow the baby to be > > vacced. When everything I said and sent to them did not change > > their minds I went inactive on the list but have continued my > > involvement in no vax for dogs.> > NOw that dear little boy is 4 1/2 years old and other than > some > > simple words, which most 2 year olds can say, this child > cannot > > talk! He spouts alot of gibberish which his parents kiddingly > > say is his martian language but I have never heard him put one > > sentence together that is understandable. > > My question to you human vac experts is have you ever seen > this > > speech malfunction as a result of vaccinations? He is not > > autistic but is somewhat over excitable, shrieks alot and > > strikes me as on the nervous side. It may be a result of his > > home environment as his mother seems overwrought, she now has > a > > 10 month old daughter who wakes up every night and cries alot > > but would this cause him to not be able to talk even on a 3 > year > > old level? And even before the baby was born it was obvious > > that was way behind in putting words together.> > The parents cannot afford a professional evaluation of this > > child and I am concerned that when he starts pre kindergarten > in > > August he will be teased by other kids which could have a > > disasterous effect on his emotions and cause him to hate school.> > I greatly appreciate any thoughts you may have on this strange > > condition in our family.> > > > > > > > >

March 28, 2012

Has his ears been checked? My daughter (vaccine damaged) had thick ear wax plugs in her ears and only spoke gibberish until they were removed by an acupuncturist. After that she was better but only able to speak well after a lot of natural medicine and heavy metal detox.

Hopefully for your little guy its just a bunch of wax.

From: nanack909 <nanack@...>Vaccinations Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 7:49 PMSubject: Four year old cannot talk

Hi everybody,I believe I joined the list about 5 years ago when my grandson and his wife were expecting their first baby and I was looking for help in warning them about why not to allow the baby to be vacced. When everything I said and sent to them did not change their minds I went inactive on the list but have continued my involvement in no vax for dogs.NOw that dear little boy is 4 1/2 years old and other than some simple words, which most 2 year olds can say, this child cannot talk! He spouts alot of gibberish which his parents kiddingly say is his martian language but I have never heard him put one sentence together that is understandable. My question to you human vac experts is have you ever seen this speech malfunction as a result of vaccinations? He is not autistic but is somewhat over excitable, shrieks alot and strikes me as on the nervous side. It may be a result of his home environment as his mother seems overwrought, she now

has a 10 month old daughter who wakes up every night and cries alot but would this cause him to not be able to talk even on a 3 year old level? And even before the baby was born it was obvious that was way behind in putting words together.The parents cannot afford a professional evaluation of this child and I am concerned that when he starts pre kindergarten in August he will be teased by other kids which could have a disasterous effect on his emotions and cause him to hate school.I greatly appreciate any thoughts you may have on this strange condition in our family.

March 29, 2012

Vicki,

I am sure there are a number ways to find out exactly what is going on with

that I am totally unaware of but this info is very interesting and I will

try to find out what is involved to have him tested. I do not doubt that his

brain is unable to hear, as when we were visiting the other night I asked to him

hold up his toy soldiers that he had been playing with so I could take his

picture. When he did not seem to understand what I was asking his Dad joined in

the request to hold a soldier in each hand and hold them in front of him,

demonstrating what he meant. I have to say that I was floored to see that

simply did not get the picture and just held the soldiers in his lap and

I took the picture. He is not the kind of child to defy you or refuse to take

instructions so I knew he just did not understand the simple request to hold the

soldiers up or he was unable to coordinate his hands to do this.

I appreciate your sending the info CAPD and it is definately worth exploring.

>

> I have done some research into Central Auditory Processing Disorder. I do not

know what causes it. It could be vaccines because it is neurological. But in a

nutshell CAPD is when the brain is unable to hear.Â The child hears with his

ears normally. But the brain is unable to process the information and what he

actually hears is garbled.Â In the extreme they cannot talk although are very

bright. Testing is done with an audiologist specializing in CAPD. There is a an

excellent book entitled " Like Sound Through Water: A Mother's Journey Through

Auditory Processing Disorder " by Karin Foli.Â Â and When the Brain Can't Hear by

Bell. Maybe that will provide someÂ clues.Â

> Hope that provides some ideas to explore.Â

>

> VickiÂ

>

March 29, 2012

Sylvia,

So nice of you to send such a helpful email that might be of good value to

determine why cannot talk.

I will find a way to get this info to 's mother as she needs to read it

and learn of the tests that can be done to get them going in the right

direction. As I said in my post to Alina I will get my daughter's help in

finding out if the parents are aware of what can be done and if they are taking

any steps toward making this happen. There is so much I don't know as there is

very little communication with 's mother and I just kept hoping that the

next time we saw justin there would be an improvement in his speech skills.

Another idea is to talk to 's father to get some idea of what if anything

they are doing. And since Saturday is Mom's day to work Jeff will be home with

the kids and a good time to talk to him. Right now I am totally in the dark and

hopefully he will understand that I am concerned about and not trying to

tell them what to do. Its worth giving it a try in any case.

>

> Hi :

>

> Central Auditory Processing is a very common diagnosis-many children and

adults have poor auditory processing.

> There are a number of pieces to the auditory centre so you need to sort it out

to determine which are the concerns for your child. The first thing to do is

make sure that the child has a good quantity of hearing- an audiogram and

tympanogram will do this. The tympanogram is important because it rules out

fluid in the middle ear which can distort sounds making it hard for the person

to catch the edges of sound so that they can't articulate properly. The quality

of the sounds we hear-getting all the edges to sound is called tonal processing.

If you have never heard something pronounced clearly before it is hard to then

output this clearly. You can have good quantity hearing but poor quality. This

is the most common scenario. Typically these kids will have hyper sensitive

hearing or have distractions to sound but still have poor tonal processing.

>

> If your little grandson had ear infections- particularly between birth to two

years of age this can dramatically impact the development of the auditory system

as this system does much of its development in these two early years when the

brain and environment are interacting in a specific way to develop the system.

This is what we call random input. Now for your little guy and others we need

to go back and do specific input so that the brain can continue these important

stages of development. If he still has problems with ear infections or fluid and

congestion in the sinuses you need to look at addressing that because it will

continue to be a hindrance for him.

>

> I am hunting around trying to find the article on it on one of our websites

but have come up empty handed. I am assuming that you can't put attachments on

here. You can email me privately and I will get it to you. I also a handout on

how to work with auditory processing to bring it up. You will have to modify it

a little bit because of his age. The need to get that auditory processing

appropriate is so important because of the impact it has on so many aspects of

our lives; following directions, age appropriate social and behavioural ability,

speech -both receptive and expressive, impulse control, reading comprehension,

focus, distractions, etc, etc.

>

> Look up any information you can find on Oral Motor Therapy by Rosenfeld

. She is an amazing speech therapist who is also trained in oral motor

therapy. In my humble opinion an amazing woman who has helped so many children

and adults with speech. She works it quite differently. She works from the

foundation up so rather than working at tongue placement for certain sounds she

first makes sure the child actually has good feeling inside his mouth so that he

can control his tongue well. l Speech is the finest of the fine motor

activities.

>

> If you go to the website: www.icando.org there are lots of articles on there

to read. We are not qualified to diagnose but rather look to one of the main

root causes-the central nervous system-specifically the brain. So, read all the

articles because you can probably pull things from many of them. If you go to

the members section look up Kay Ness of S.E.N.C. and go to her website. She has

some " Free Stuff " on there which is worth a lot. It will start helping with

neurological organization-getting those foundational pieces put in better, will

help with sensory issues -the Tactile Sequence. I think there is one there on

teaching Books with Highlighted words or something to that affect. We have

that if you work at teaching the child to read in a specific way that is brain

friendly- this often will help pull in language.

> You can probably get this book, " How to Teach Your Baby to Read " by Glenn

Doman. Kay also has the Obstacle course on there-hugely important. This can help

the brain have better motor control to organize speech along with developing

good some sensory integration, and very important lower level brain development.

Listening to classical music helps as it is neurologically organizing-studies

out there support it. Bach and Mozart are great. A few kids find the music

irritating. If that is the cause there is some sensory stuff going so stop

listening for now because we never want to put the child in a more agitated

state.

>

> If there is heavy metal toxicity or other stuff going on from the vaccines or

other sources you want to look at getting that addressed as well because it can

definitely slow the progress of neurological development. We see kids that will

make good progress with us and then kind of hit a wall or their progress is

always made with much effort and this is when we encourage parents to look at

the metabolic: cleaning up diet, looking at vaccines issues, if the child has

allergies, is often sick, asthma, eczema, etc. Some kids just scream, " metabolic

concerns " as soon as you see them. They just don't look well, seem hyperactive,

are pale, circles under their eyes, pink ears, etc. In my opinion we all need

some metabolic work because we live in a toxic environment, our food sources are

not great anymore, vaccines, etc, etc. You often find that as you clean up the

child from a metabolic perspective he becomes less hyperactive, agitated,

sensory, etc.

>

> The vaccines may or may not have caused the speech concerns or may have

worsened an underlying situation. Sensory integration is a huge thing as

well-tactile sequence helps with that, getting those lower levels organized

helps. Lots you can do to make things better.

>

> Sylvia

>

March 29, 2012

,

That is good to hear that the schools have a speech evaluation, but I wonder if

this applies to kids that are too young to be in school?

will not be in elementary school until Aug. 2013 and if he keeps getting

worse with his speech it will be much harder to get him cleared up.

>

> Hi, I am not sure about the vaccine aspect, but I did want to tell you that

all children qualify for services through the school districts. I am not sure

how you go about it... But I would call the local elementary school and ask how

he can get a speech evaluation. I know when my son was 3 they did a

pre-screening in RI for any child in the district (no cost). Good luck to you

and your family!

>

March 29, 2012

Sylvia,

I am sorry your son has autism but as you probably know it is an epidemic in

this country, not that that makes it any easier to contend with, but you surely

are not alone. Has your son been treated for autism in any way? I do have a

document that I received a couple of years ago that told how to cure autism but

you may already have heard of this kind of protocol. I hope he is showing signs

of improvement.

I wish I could answer your questions about but since as I mentioned in a

previous email I have had almost no contact with him in a year, except a short

time at Christmas party. I only know that when I saw him tues. night he did not

look as bright and outgoing as he was a year ago. And the episode of his not

being able to follow simple instructions about having his picture taken

concerned me. And since he is nearly incommunicable it is very hard to know if

he is understanding what he hears, but when he came to our house a few times

last year I would have said he had normal recognitive ability. I never once

questioned whether he was hard of hearing, etc. as he always showed a good

reaction to whatever suggestions I made. I did notice the other night that he

was quieter and no gibberish the whole time we were there.

I have no idea what the typical vac schedule for toddlers is but it is not out

of the realm of possibility that he has had a shot between the age of 3 and 4

which would increase his chances of being a victim of more vac damage since I

have spent time with him.

I remember his mother telling us that he was a picky eater from a young age but

again I do not know if this is continuing. I do know she had an extremely hard

time potty training him, he would hold his BM for days and days and only go in

his diaper until he was 4 years old. She told me at chrismas that he was

finally over that nightmare.

If he has had any tests I can only hope to find out when I talk to his father on

Sat., along with other information that I would like to know, specifically when

did he have last vac and have they dicussed the fact that is not

developing normally.

Hoping to find out more in near future.

>

> Hi :

>

> In my work I have seen a number of children who either have had speech and

> then lost it or simply did not develop it appropriately and often parents

> will mention vaccinations as an area of concern.

>

> Speech is dependent on many neurological milestones ( Brain development)

> being put into place and if these are not efficient speech will be

> difficult. Vaccinations for some appear to inhibit the efficient

> development of these neurological milestones or contribute to other

> underlying concerns. If the vaccinations caused metabolic issues this can

> inhibit typical brain development as well.

>

> What is his level of receptive language or his understanding of speech?

> Does he appear to understand like a typical 4 1/2 year old or is this

> delayed as well? It is common to have a gap between receptive language

> (understanding) and expressive language or his output of speech-talking.

> Most often the expressive language is the one lagging behind. What is his

> ability to follow directions like? Is he a picky eater? Can he chew his

> food well? Has he had an audiogram and tympanogram done to rule out any

> hearing issues? What is his coordination like? It may be that his gibberish

> is actually his attempt to mimic sounds but his articulation is so poor that

> you can't understand it and if he has low processing he will have difficulty

> putting an appropriate length sentence together.

>

> He could be somewhat " sensory " meaning that he may be bringing in more

> information from his sensory environment or is bringing it in in a distorted

> way which can be interpreted by the child as painful. This often exhibits as

> the excitable child, nervous child, etc.

>

> I don't know if I am allowed to direct you to specific websites that may

> help with this. If any of the moderators are reading this email is this

> permissible? And if so I can give you some to investigate. There is lots

> you can do just by being a detective, gathering specific books from

> libraries, going on the internet, etc. There are lots of pioneers out there

> ( many on this list serve) who have done what others have said are

> impossible so don't loose hope.

>

> I got involved in the work that I do because of my son, who has autism and

> was likely vaccination damaged. So there is lots of potential for your

> great grandson to move forward. This is actually a pretty common concern,

> speech delays, although when it is your child or grand child it often seems

> like you are the only one dealing with this. I remember feeling that way

> about my son. He had no speech delays but many other concerns-behaviour was

> a big one for us.

>

> Sylvia from Alberta Canada

>

> --------------------------------------------------

> From: " nanack909 " <nanack@...>

> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 8:49 PM

> <Vaccinations >

> Subject: Four year old cannot talk

>

> > Hi everybody,

> > I believe I joined the list about 5 years ago when my grandson and his

> > wife were expecting their first baby and I was looking for help in warning

> > them about why not to allow the baby to be vacced. When everything I said

> > and sent to them did not change their minds I went inactive on the list

> > but have continued my involvement in no vax for dogs.

> > NOw that dear little boy is 4 1/2 years old and other than some simple

> > words, which most 2 year olds can say, this child cannot talk! He spouts

> > alot of gibberish which his parents kiddingly say is his martian language

> > but I have never heard him put one sentence together that is

> > understandable.

> > My question to you human vac experts is have you ever seen this speech

> > malfunction as a result of vaccinations? He is not autistic but is

> > somewhat over excitable, shrieks alot and strikes me as on the nervous

> > side. It may be a result of his home environment as his mother seems

> > overwrought, she now has a 10 month old daughter who wakes up every night

> > and cries alot but would this cause him to not be able to talk even on a 3

> > year old level? And even before the baby was born it was obvious that

> > was way behind in putting words together.

> > The parents cannot afford a professional evaluation of this child and I am

> > concerned that when he starts pre kindergarten in August he will be teased

> > by other kids which could have a disasterous effect on his emotions and

> > cause him to hate school.

> > I greatly appreciate any thoughts you may have on this strange condition

> > in our family.

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

March 29, 2012

Winnie,

Your son's case sounds alot like , and what a wonderful success story that

he turned out to be. I am so glad for you that you were able to get him to

speak so quickly after starting SI, that sounds amazing to me.

So this is something else to investigate and all I need is to get his parent's

agreement that he does need testing.

I;m not sure what they believe about vacs and any problems, don't even know if

they read all the documentation I sent them, and still do as I forward alot of

vac info to everyone on my email list.

I feel sure they are still allowing vacs as she told me that she would lose her

insurance if she refused them. I did not question that as I know what the world

is doing to force people to give vacs, but just found out yesterday that she

could have gotten an exemption.

That is something else I will talk to them about if I can get this subject

opened up with them.

I know you are very proud of your son and you have a right to be.

>

> Hi, ,

>

> One of my sons was the same way--gibberish, couldn't understand him. He was

vaccinated. We did have him tested through the public schools at age four. We

were told he could talk based on his ability to form certain sounds, but he

" chose not to " (?!?) and to recheck in a year. Hopefully they're more

knowledgable now--this was in 1995 when autism was beginning to be known about

but not much.

>

> Soon after that, a Sensory Integration therapist came into his school

(Montessori) and one of the teachers learned how to use some of the techniques.

One was putting my son in a giant swinging sling and he did right/left arm

crossover movements. After about two sessions he began to speak in full,

coherent sentences about normal things. He was 4 1/2--as was Einstein when he

finally started to talk, by the way. So, it didn't take much and the person was

barely trained in it. Here's a website for one of the first books on SI:

(http://out-of-sync-child.com/)

>

> Later on my son had trouble reading and SI helped there, too. Other symptoms

were poor handwriting. That and the speech are pretty much what Sylvia was

talking about with expressive language problems. He had trouble getting things

from his brain to his lips and fingers. He saw a speech-pathologist, too, who

had him work with kids who had the CAPD that Vicki mentioned. He did real well

with them, although she said he didn't have CAPD (who knows, though?).

>

> Although he consistently did poorly on the verbal parts of tests like SAT's

and reading comprehension, he excelled in other areas and is just finishing his

first year of college after a successful high school career. He is extremely

bright, and the one I turn to for help figuring things out. And he also has

beautiful handwriting now, too.

>

> Definitely look into the Sensory Integration therapy. It might come under

Occupational Therapy. The public schools should offer services for that (and for

free), so suggest they have him tested, and for CAPD, too.

>

> Do his parents understand the connection to speech problems and vaccines? Do

you think they'll stop vaccinating him?

>

> Winnie

>

March 29, 2012

Joanna,

You have really make a case for the risks of ultra sound scans with your son's

background of totally natural rearing. Were you at some kind of risks during

your pregnancy to cause you to have the scans?

I know 's mother had scans during her pregnancy with him as she had

problems like high blood pressure, allergies and asthma but I do not know how

many. But these are the health factors that made them insist that she have one

every month during her second pregnancy so it could have been true with

too. This family may have 2 damaged kids on their hands as the baby is 10

months old and Mom said she not only does not say anything at all but no

attempts at vocal expression that a normal baby has. I had 3 daughters and I

know that every one of them was saying several words by 6 months and I don't

even want to try to remember how many they were saying by 10 months.

That is alot of scans that they forced on 's mom and it is only logical

that that much exposure to radiation while in development would have some

negative ramifications. and you add that to the assaults of vacs immediately

after birth and you have a recipe for every type of impairment on the planet,

physical, emotional and neurological. And all this in the name of protecting

the babies????

>

> It's not just vaccines, either.Â Ultrasound scans can cause speech delay

according to some studies.Â My almost 5 year old is around 1 year delayed with

his speech, he didn't start talking till nearly 3 years old and he has just

started speech therapy.Â His therapist diagnosed him with a 'severe speech

sound defect' - he has never been vaccinated, had no antibiotics, no vit K, no

medicine of any kind except homeopathy and supplements and he has never had any

major illness (2 bouts of gastro), he was also breastfed till nearly 4 years

old.

>

> I do wonder about the scans because I since read they've been linked to left

handedness, ADHD and speech delay.Â I had 3 scans when pregnant with him.Â The

info is on the AIMS website.

>

> >

>

March 29, 2012

Since I know next to nothing about what has been checked on I can only

surmise that any doctor worth his salt would have looked at that, especially if

he had the brains to notice that a 4 1/2 year old kid could not talk beyond the

level of a 2 year old.

You were lucky that someone spotted the wax in your daughter's ears and that she

improved after natural meds and detox.

And this gives me something else to ask Jeff when I talk to him.

>

> Has his ears been checked?Â My daughter (vaccine damaged)Â had thickÂ ear wax

plugs in her ears and only spoke gibberish until they were removed by an

acupuncturist.Â Â Â After that she was better but only able to speak wellÂ after

a lot of natural medicine and heavy metal detox.Â

> Hopefully for your little guy its just a bunch of wax.

> Â

>

March 30, 2012

No one can undo what has already happened but he can be helped I believe with

good nutritional support. Sounds like mom needs it as well. I was fortunate

enough to come across the book 'Real Food for Mother and Baby' by Nina Planck

when my son was a baby. Another great book I read recently is 'Deep Nutrition'

by a doctor who had some health issues and discovers the importance of

traditional food. Another good source is the www.westonaprice.org. We have

forsaken real food and give ourselves and our kids processed foods 9event eh

healthy processed food is junk) and expect them to thrive and they aren't.

I am a tyrant when it comes to what my son eats and doesn't eat. He does not get

junk. He is only two so he doesn't know this yet. When he is older he can start

to make his own decisions but right now he does not. He is a very pleasant

rather fun child. If he even gets too much fruit he becomes really whiney and

fussy so I even watch how much fruit he has. I do beleive your diet can affect

your behavior and state of mind.

Cod liver is in my opinion the number one supplement anyone should take...a good

cod liver oil that is. Vitex is the number two and that only for women. It

really takes the edge off, helps balence your hormones which ennables you to

better deal with life's ups and downs. Bone broths are nourishing along with

lacto fermented foods like kefir.

I believe diet is the most important key to health and your body can withstand a

LOT if you are heathy and well nourished which most people in modern societies

are not.

Of course the parents have to realize there is a problem but if she is at all

interested in nutrition she should start with 'Real Food' and go from there. I

do wish him the best and I do believe there is a lot of hope but he does need

some help and they need to get off the track they are on and do some things

differently. Please let us know what happens.