Guest guest Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 I would go with Colloidal Silver.Maggie From: Vaccinations [mailto:Vaccinations ] On Behalf Of wharrison@...Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 3:59 PMVaccinations Subject: Re: {SPAM 05.0} Re: tick bite Right, you don't want to leave the head in. That's not wimpish. It's smart. And I agree antibiotics are the lesser of two evils, if you're dealing with the two and if they work. We'd be on antibiotics all the time with the amount of ticks we pull off, and that's not healthy either. Go with your gut instincts, though. Winnie tick bite> > > > > > Hi,> > I brought my son to a walk in clinic today to remove a deer > tick (I> > am a wimp). They want him to take an antibiotic to prevent > Lyme's disease in the event the tick was a carrier. Does anyone > know if this works? I am not big on medications at all and he > has had one time before...but I also really don't want him to > get Lyme disease. Also, they asked if we were up to date on > Tetanus vaccine. I told the Dr. no and said that I thought that > was only necessary for deep wounds. He said even a tick bite > could theoretically be an opening for the infection. Just > curious if anyone has ever heard of that?> > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.comVersion: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2409/4916 - Release Date: 04/05/12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 I know that folks with chronic lyme or lyme that reoccurs despite "getting it early" often are givenIV abx or IM injections.I never hear about getting it in a more simple injectable form though, much LIKE a vaccine.I don't know if that's possible.IV or IM is a way around the gut but quite traumatic to do to a little kid as a preventative.This is one bacterium that is immunosuppresive unto itself, and also by its life cycle, very hard to eradicate onceestablished in the body.You could wreck the immune system by NOT giving ABX in this case. OQueens NY USA From: <ericandjamie@...> "Vaccinations " <Vaccinations > Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 7:36 PM Subject: Re: {SPAM 05.0} Re: tick bite Is there anything that can be taken naturally or do you suggest just waiting to see if any reactions develop?Thanks, On Apr 5, 2012, at 5:24 PM, Sheri Nakken <vaccinedangers@...> wrote: antibiotics certainly are NOT innocuous - what can't replace that we don't know about in the gut and they are messing with part of the immune system all over including the gut aspect. I will just say that the children with autism, that I know, that are NOT vaccinated, all have antibiotics in their history. Sheri At 12:58 PM 4/5/2012, you wrote: Right, you don't want to leave the head in. That's not wimpish. It's smart. And I agree antibiotics are the lesser of two evils, if you're dealing with the two and if they work. We'd be on antibiotics all the time with the amount of ticks we pull off, and that's not healthy either. Go with your gut instincts, though. Winnie Re: {SPAM 05.0} Re: tick bite "Vaccinations " > Thanks for all those that replied. I have been doing a lot of > reading about it and think the antibiotics are by far the lesser > of the two evils. Thanks for all the info provided by everyone. > I know it sounds lame to be a wimp about taking the tick off > but my big fear was leaving the head embedded which can cause > infection too. > Thanks again, > > On Apr 4, 2012, at 12:51 PM, Osanitch > wrote: > > What I say will sound scary and I don't mean to do that to > you, but > > I feel I have to say it because taking tick bites too lightly has > > had consequences for a lot of folks. > > > > Now, I generally don't run to antibiotics for everything, if > anything.> But in this case I would do it. > > > > The impact lyme is having around the world is growing and this > is one > > bacterium which does not do well with only homeopathic treatments. > > > > Even people who ARE getting ABX are not all getting well. > > Not because it isn't worth doing but because the bacteria are > incredibly tough, resilient > > and deceptive. > > > > It so happens I am doing a lot of research on it because a > test I took in Aug 2010 > > for lyme had one reactive band, and when I had called back in > the day for the results, I was only told > > "it's negative, you're fine." > > > > Turns out the test was likely a very outdated test, that lyme > is in the middle of a huge war in the medical > > world, that lyme is not simple to cure and can devestate the > body, kill you or make you WISH > > you were dead if left untreated. > > > > I don't know if I have it and I kind of doubt it. > > Even the tests are not foolproof. > > The standard CDC test is pretty much outdated. > > In fact if you ever feel you need testing or your doctor wants > to do it, > > request a Western Blot from IGeneX labs. > > Another options is Stonybrook labs but in that case you want > to request > > that all bands be tested and not just the ones specified by > the 1994 Lyme Symposium > > of Dearborn MI. > > > > I am looking into a better Western Blot test and getting > insurance to hopefully cover it. Just for peace of mind. > > > > Depending on how late you treat, the antibiotics themselves > can be very harsh. > > If you start early though, it's not bad. > > You can always keep your child on a course of probiotics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 How long were they on when you found them and removed them?Were any of them engorged?Nice you found a place to test them. Was it a state lab?I asked Stonybrook to test once and they said "We don't do that anymore because by the time you get results, the PERSON bittenalready has lyme, erlichia or whatever IF they are going to get it at all." OQueens NY USA From: "wharrison@..." <wharrison@...> Vaccinations Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 9:32 PM Subject: Re: {SPAM 05.0} Re: tick bite I'm in CT--deer ticks, dog ticks. I had a couple of the deer ticks tested years ago after I took them off of my son and dog, and they did come up positive for Lyme. So, I assume any one of them will have it. It's a scary thing, no doubt. I really don't know why none of us have ever had it. Winnie Re: {SPAM 05.0} Re: tick bite> > > >> > > >Right, you don't want to leave the head in. That's not wimpish. > It's smart. And I agree antibiotics are the lesser of two evils, > if you're dealing with the two and if they work. We'd be on > antibiotics all the time with the amount of ticks we pull off, > and that's not healthy either. Go with your gut instincts, > though. > > > >Winnie> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 Our naturopath told us to put antibiotic ointment on it and watch for symptoms. That's all we've ever done over the past 15 years. Symptoms are how Lyme is many times diagnosed anyway. The tests can be unreliable, probably because most docs don't use the IGeneX as recommended by . One of my sons was at the ER once for an unrelated condition and for some reason they tested him for Lyme, too. It came back borderline and the ped insisted he go on antibiotics while waiting for the Western Blot test results. I refused, and it came back negative. I'm sure many people go ahead and get antibiotics just from the screening test (ELISA) results. Who knows how that affects whether they get Lyme in the future since their immune systems are now compromised and more likely not to be able to fight infections? I often wonder why so many people I know have Lyme. Is it because vaccines have screwed up their ability to fight it? Why has Lyme only become prevalent over the past couple of decades? Where was it 40-50 years ago? Maybe we just now are becoming vulnerable to it due to overuse of antibiotics, OTC drugs and vaccines. Winnie Re: {SPAM 05.0} Re: tick bite> >> "Vaccinations " > >> > >> > Thanks for all those that replied. I have been doing a lot > of > >> > reading about it and think the antibiotics are by far the > lesser > >> > of the two evils. Thanks for all the info provided by > everyone. > >> > I know it sounds lame to be a wimp about taking the tick > off > >> > but my big fear was leaving the head embedded which can > cause > >> > infection too. > >> > Thanks again, > >> > > >> > On Apr 4, 2012, at 12:51 PM, Osanitch > >> > wrote:> >> > > What I say will sound scary and I don't mean to do that > to > >> > you, but> >> > > I feel I have to say it because taking tick bites too > lightly has> >> > > had consequences for a lot of folks.> >> > > > >> > > Now, I generally don't run to antibiotics for everything, > if > >> > anything.> But in this case I would do it.> >> > > > >> > > The impact lyme is having around the world is growing and > this > >> > is one> >> > > bacterium which does not do well with only homeopathic > treatments.>> > > > >> > > Even people who ARE getting ABX are not all getting well.> >> > > Not because it isn't worth doing but because the bacteria > are > >> > incredibly tough, resilient> >> > > and deceptive.> >> > > > >> > > It so happens I am doing a lot of research on it because > a > >> > test I took in Aug 2010> >> > > for lyme had one reactive band, and when I had called > back in > >> > the day for the results, I was only told> >> > > "it's negative, you're fine."> >> > > > >> > > Turns out the test was likely a very outdated test, that > lyme > >> > is in the middle of a huge war in the medical> >> > > world, that lyme is not simple to cure and can devestate > the > >> > body, kill you or make you WISH> >> > > you were dead if left untreated.> >> > > > >> > > I don't know if I have it and I kind of doubt it.> >> > > Even the tests are not foolproof.> >> > > The standard CDC test is pretty much outdated.> >> > > In fact if you ever feel you need testing or your doctor > wants > >> > to do it,> >> > > request a Western Blot from IGeneX labs.> >> > > Another options is Stonybrook labs but in that case you > want > >> > to request> >> > > that all bands be tested and not just the ones specified > by > >> > the 1994 Lyme Symposium> >> > > of Dearborn MI.> >> > > > >> > > I am looking into a better Western Blot test and getting > >> > insurance to hopefully cover it. Just for peace of mind.> >> > > > >> > > Depending on how late you treat, the antibiotics > themselves > >> > can be very harsh.> >> > > If you start early though, it's not bad.> >> > > You can always keep your child on a course of probiotics.> >> > >> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 People are so vulnerable these days that it could very well be part of the problem. And right, the tests ARE unreliable. The ELISA is practically useless and you need a Western Blot that includes "All bands." The CDC, while working on a vaccine, left a few bands specific to the bacterium that causes Lyme - Borrelia burgdorfei - out of the Western Blot in order to prevent false positives. The "bands" for those who don't know, only show when certain proteins that only this bacterium have, are present. This was never corrected. So as a result, the WB that is CDC approved per the 1994 Dearborn MI symposium, is still being used. It leaves out the specific bands but has left IN, bands that show when proteins are there that are NOT specific to the bacterium. Case in point, I had a CDC WB done in Aug 2010 and only one band came up. It was band 41. This band shows when antibodies are present for proteins from flagella; the piece of anatomy that spirochaetes use for motility. I'm not sure what other, if any other, "bugs" may be encountered that also use flagella but I'm pretty sure there are others. Spirochaetes can come from anywhere. People have a certain amount of spirochaetes in their mouth flora; typically called "Oral" or "Dental" spirochaetes. These sort of test flaws contribute to what are considered "false positive" test results. False negative results are more common because the bacterium can go into hiding in tissues for long enough for the body to halt antibody production, to undetectable levels, for some time. I'm likely going to opt for paying for a proper WB that includes ALL bands including the B.burgdorfei-specific ones. If specific ones come up, then I've been exposed, most likely. If not, I won't worry. I don't have what I would consider a lot of symptoms. I only discovered that one band came up because I went to the doc for a routine wellness check a few weeks ago, and the new PA read my old lyme test to me; one that I was simply told was "negative" over the phone. This is a example of why everyone should have copies of their test results for themselves. By total coincidence, I started having a bit of hip pain in my left hip a few weeks ago. I do sometimes feel worn out but hell, that could be from anything! Other days I feel ten feet tall! Two years ago I had a mysterious 7 weeks of dizzyness in the fall, with a bit of nausea. It was starting to scare me. I didn't know when it would stop. My doc actually knocked me for seeing him! He said "I suppose you think you have a brain tumour" and I said "Uh, no. It never crossed my mind." He just told me it would stop and that was it. I think my days with him will be coming to an end. Your naturopath's way isn't a bad one. I can keep an antibiotic ointment on hand. I don't see it working unless you get to the bite immediately but handy to have if you do. Which ointment do you use? OQueens NY USA From: "wharrison@..." <wharrison@...>Vaccinations Sent: Friday, April 6, 2012 7:00 AMSubject: Re: {SPAM 05.0} Re: tick bite Our naturopath told us to put antibiotic ointment on it and watch for symptoms. That's all we've ever done over the past 15 years. Symptoms are how Lyme is many times diagnosed anyway. The tests can be unreliable, probably because most docs don't use the IGeneX as recommended by . One of my sons was at the ER once for an unrelated condition and for some reason they tested him for Lyme, too. It came back borderline and the ped insisted he go on antibiotics while waiting for the Western Blot test results. I refused, and it came back negative. I'm sure many people go ahead and get antibiotics just from the screening test (ELISA) results. Who knows how that affects whether they get Lyme in the future since their immune systems are now compromised and more likely not to be able to fight infections? I often wonder why so many people I know have Lyme. Is it because vaccines have screwed up their ability to fight it? Why has Lyme only become prevalent over the past couple of decades? Where was it 40-50 years ago? Maybe we just now are becoming vulnerable to it due to overuse of antibiotics, OTC drugs and vaccines. Winnie Re: {SPAM 05.0} Re: tick bite> >> "Vaccinations " > >> > >> > Thanks for all those that replied. I have been doing a lot > of > >> > reading about it and think the antibiotics are by far the > lesser > >> > of the two evils. Thanks for all the info provided by > everyone. > >> > I know it sounds lame to be a wimp about taking the tick > off > >> > but my big fear was leaving the head embedded which can > cause > >> > infection too. > >> > Thanks again, > >> > > >> > On Apr 4, 2012, at 12:51 PM, Osanitch > >> > wrote:> >> > > What I say will sound scary and I don't mean to do that > to > >> > you, but> >> > > I feel I have to say it because taking tick bites too > lightly has> >> > > had consequences for a lot of folks.> >> > > > >> > > Now, I generally don't run to antibiotics for everything, > if > >> > anything.> But in this case I would do it.> >> > > > >> > > The impact lyme is having around the world is growing and > this > >> > is one> >> > > bacterium which does not do well with only homeopathic > treatments.>> > > > >> > > Even people who ARE getting ABX are not all getting well.> >> > > Not because it isn't worth doing but because the bacteria > are > >> > incredibly tough, resilient> >> > > and deceptive.> >> > > > >> > > It so happens I am doing a lot of research on it because > a > >> > test I took in Aug 2010> >> > > for lyme had one reactive band, and when I had called > back in > >> > the day for the results, I was only told> >> > > "it's negative, you're fine."> >> > > > >> > > Turns out the test was likely a very outdated test, that > lyme > >> > is in the middle of a huge war in the medical> >> > > world, that lyme is not simple to cure and can devestate > the > >> > body, kill you or make you WISH> >> > > you were dead if left untreated.> >> > > > >> > > I don't know if I have it and I kind of doubt it.> >> > > Even the tests are not foolproof.> >> > > The standard CDC test is pretty much outdated.> >> > > In fact if you ever feel you need testing or your doctor > wants > >> > to do it,> >> > > request a Western Blot from IGeneX labs.> >> > > Another options is Stonybrook labs but in that case you > want > >> > to request> >> > > that all bands be tested and not just the ones specified > by > >> > the 1994 Lyme Symposium> >> > > of Dearborn MI.> >> > > > >> > > I am looking into a better Western Blot test and getting > >> > insurance to hopefully cover it. Just for peace of mind.> >> > > > >> > > Depending on how late you treat, the antibiotics > themselves > >> > can be very harsh.> >> > > If you start early though, it's not bad.> >> > > You can always keep your child on a course of probiotics.> >> > >> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 I saw a show once that claims Lyme was created in the labs at plum island off of long island. Not sure of the validity of this but when you look at the heavy presence in the northeast it does sound possible. Check it out online.We used to live on Long island. When we would go horseback riding the horses would be loaded with ticks, everywhere. The horses and dogs all got Lyme but Thank God we never did. It is really horrible how so many have it now!I need to look for a naturopath again here in AL. Anyone know of any? I used to go to the clinic at the school in Bridgeport, CT when I lived in RI. It was convenient and cheap to see a naturopath! On Apr 6, 2012, at 6:00 AM, wharrison@... wrote: Our naturopath told us to put antibiotic ointment on it and watch for symptoms. That's all we've ever done over the past 15 years. Symptoms are how Lyme is many times diagnosed anyway. The tests can be unreliable, probably because most docs don't use the IGeneX as recommended by . One of my sons was at the ER once for an unrelated condition and for some reason they tested him for Lyme, too. It came back borderline and the ped insisted he go on antibiotics while waiting for the Western Blot test results. I refused, and it came back negative. I'm sure many people go ahead and get antibiotics just from the screening test (ELISA) results. Who knows how that affects whether they get Lyme in the future since their immune systems are now compromised and more likely not to be able to fight infections? I often wonder why so many people I know have Lyme. Is it because vaccines have screwed up their ability to fight it? Why has Lyme only become prevalent over the past couple of decades? Where was it 40-50 years ago? Maybe we just now are becoming vulnerable to it due to overuse of antibiotics, OTC drugs and vaccines. Winnie Re: {SPAM 05.0} Re: tick bite> >> "Vaccinations " > >> > >> > Thanks for all those that replied. I have been doing a lot > of > >> > reading about it and think the antibiotics are by far the > lesser > >> > of the two evils. Thanks for all the info provided by > everyone. > >> > I know it sounds lame to be a wimp about taking the tick > off > >> > but my big fear was leaving the head embedded which can > cause > >> > infection too. > >> > Thanks again, > >> > > >> > On Apr 4, 2012, at 12:51 PM, Osanitch > >> > wrote:> >> > > What I say will sound scary and I don't mean to do that > to > >> > you, but> >> > > I feel I have to say it because taking tick bites too > lightly has> >> > > had consequences for a lot of folks.> >> > > > >> > > Now, I generally don't run to antibiotics for everything, > if > >> > anything.> But in this case I would do it.> >> > > > >> > > The impact lyme is having around the world is growing and > this > >> > is one> >> > > bacterium which does not do well with only homeopathic > treatments.>> > > > >> > > Even people who ARE getting ABX are not all getting well.> >> > > Not because it isn't worth doing but because the bacteria > are > >> > incredibly tough, resilient> >> > > and deceptive.> >> > > > >> > > It so happens I am doing a lot of research on it because > a > >> > test I took in Aug 2010> >> > > for lyme had one reactive band, and when I had called > back in > >> > the day for the results, I was only told> >> > > "it's negative, you're fine."> >> > > > >> > > Turns out the test was likely a very outdated test, that > lyme > >> > is in the middle of a huge war in the me dical> >> > > world, that lyme is not simple to cure and can devestate > the > >> > body, kill you or make you WISH> >> > > you were dead if left untreated.> >> > > > >> > > I don't know if I have it and I kind of doubt it.> >> > > Even the tests are not foolproof.> >> > > The standard CDC test is pretty much outdated.> >> > > In fact if you ever feel you need testing or your doctor > wants > >> > to do it,> >> > > request a Western Blot from IGeneX labs.> >> > > Another options is Stonybrook labs but in that case you > want > >> > to request> >> > > that all bands be tested and not just the ones specified > by > >> > the 1994 Lyme Symposium> >> > > of Dearborn MI.> > & g t; > > > >> > > I am looking into a better Western Blot test and getting > >> > insurance to hopefully cover it. Just for peace of mind.> >> > > > >> > > Depending on how late you treat, the antibiotics > themselves > >> > can be very harsh.> >> > > If you start early though, it's not bad.> >> > > You can always keep your child on a course of probiotics.> >> > >> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 , I just remembered that when my son had the bug bite on his arm, I talked to a friend of mine who knows everything there is to know about Lyme disease, because her husband has had it for 12 years. He's been on antibiotics for most of those twelve years, and she said every time he stops taking them, he can barely move again. (Sounds to me like they're not working, if he needs to keep taking them). Anyway, she also was familiar with many all natural cures remedies, and the one I remember is Plaintain leaves. (I'm not sure if I'm spelling it right). I don't think they were for Lyme specifically, but to fight infection or something. I said "where do I find them?" and she said there was an old native American saying about how anywhere you are, there are plaintain leaves in your site or something like that. IN other words, they're everywhere. So, she told me to do a search online of plaintain leaves and find them in my yard, crush them up a little bit and put them on the bite and keep it there with some gauze or a bandage. I never had to use it because it was fine the next day, so I don't know if it works, but It's worth a try. She sent me an article about the leaves, and they were supposed to be good for all kinds of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 Plantain leaves are great. My 11 month old son was bitten by a spider on his neck while camping so I picked some leaves, chewed them up and applied it to the bite. Redness and white puss went away very quickly. Plantain pulls out poison very well. It's good for all stings and bites. Not sure about Lyme though. I do love that herb, and it is everywhere.Jen Flick in PASent from my iPhoneOn Apr 6, 2012, at 10:53 AM, Kelloggs263@... wrote: , I just remembered that when my son had the bug bite on his arm, I talked to a friend of mine who knows everything there is to know about Lyme disease, because her husband has had it for 12 years. He's been on antibiotics for most of those twelve years, and she said every time he stops taking them, he can barely move again. (Sounds to me like they're not working, if he needs to keep taking them). Anyway, she also was familiar with many all natural cures remedies, and the one I remember is Plaintain leaves. (I'm not sure if I'm spelling it right). I don't think they were for Lyme specifically, but to fight infection or something. I said "where do I find them?" and she said there was an old native American saying about how anywhere you are, there are plaintain leaves in your site or something like that. IN other words, they're everywhere. So, she told me to do a search online of plaintain leaves and find them in my yard, crush them up a little bit and put them on the bite and keep it there with some gauze or a bandage. I never had to use it because it was fine the next day, so I don't know if it works, but It's worth a try. She sent me an article about the leaves, and they were supposed to be good for all kinds of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2012 Report Share Posted April 7, 2012 I think the antibiotics would work better if given right away since the LD wouldn't be as deep into you (IF the tick was infected). It is hard being a parent. No doubt about it. Winnie Re: {SPAM 05.0} Re: tick bite"Vaccinations " > Hi, good to know for any future bites. I will be looking it up. > This bite is just a little scab now. I gave two antibiotics > pills and then discontinued since I am torn about it. I wonder > if the antibiotics work more if you catch it right away. My dad > was telling me that he knew a guy that had it but they didn't > realize for awhile and he eventually had to have IV drugs at > night while he slept but then it went away. > It is so hard to be a parent... I am constantly worried if I am > doing the right thing for my kids! I hope and most of all pray > that this is just nothing. Thanks for all the info though. When > my son had a bee sting in the past we put a damp tea bag on and > that helped relieve him very quickly.> Thanks, > On Apr 6, 2012, at 11:19 AM, Flickinger > wrote:> > > Plantain leaves are great. My 11 month old son was bitten by a > spider on his neck while camping so I picked some leaves, chewed > them up and applied it to the bite. Redness and white puss went > away very quickly. Plantain pulls out poison very well. It's > good for all stings and bites. Not sure about Lyme though. I do > love that herb, and it is everywhere.> > > > Jen Flick in PA> > > > Sent from my iPhone> > > > On Apr 6, 2012, at 10:53 AM, Kelloggs263@... wrote:> > > >> > >> > >> , I just remembered that when my son had the bug bite > on his arm, I talked to a friend of mine who knows everything > there is to know about Lyme disease, because her husband has > had it for 12 years. He's been on antibiotics for most of those > twelve years, and she said every time he stops taking them, he > can barely move again. (Sounds to me like they're not working, > if he needs to keep taking them). Anyway, she also was familiar > with many all natural cures remedies, and the one I remember is > Plaintain leaves. (I'm not sure if I'm spelling it right). I > don't think they were for Lyme specifically, but to fight > infection or something. I said "where do I find them?" and she > said there was an old native American saying about how anywhere > you are, there are plaintain leaves in your site or something > like that. IN other words, they're everywhere. So, she told me > to do a search online of plaintain leaves and find them in my > yard, crush them up a little bit and put them on the bite and > keep it there with some gauze or a bandage. I never had to use > it because it was fine the next day, so I don't know if it > works, but It's worth a try. She sent me an article about the > leaves, and they were supposed to be good for all kinds of > things. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 No, not IV for a kid who was just bitten. A doc would not suggest it. I'm just saying it's the only way I see around the gut flora damage risk, but again, that's awfully extreme and traumatic to do to a kid. OQueens NY USA From: "wharrison@..." <wharrison@...>Vaccinations Sent: Friday, April 6, 2012 7:28 PMSubject: Re: {SPAM 05.0} Re: tick bite IF the tick had Lyme Disease and IF it was on long enough to transmit it and IF your immune system didn't fight it. Not to dismiss the seriousness of Lyme Disease... I don't think any doctor would prescribe IV antibiotics for a child who was never even tested. Winnie Re: {SPAM 05.0} Re: tick bite> >>>"Vaccinations " > >>>> >>>> Thanks for all those that replied. I have been doing a lot > of > >>>> reading about it and think the antibiotics are by far the > lesser > >>>> of the two evils. Thanks for all the info provided by > everyone. > >>>> I know it sounds lame to be a wimp about taking the tick > off > >>>> but my big fear was leaving the head embedded which can > cause > >>>> infection too. > >>>> Thanks again, > >>>> > >>>> On Apr 4, 2012, at 12:51 PM, Osanitch > >>>> wrote:> >>>> > What I say will sound scary and I don't mean to do that > to > >>>> you, but> >>>> > I feel I have to say it because taking tick bites too lightly> has> >>>> > had consequences for a lot of folks.> >>>> > > >>>> > Now, I generally don't run to antibiotics for everything, > if > >>>> anything.> But in this case I would do it.> >>>> > > >>>> > The impact lyme is having around the world is growing and > this > >>>> is one> >>>> > bacterium which does not do well with only homeopathic> treatments.> >>>> > > >>>> > Even people who ARE getting ABX are not all getting well.> >>>> > Not because it isn't worth doing but because the bacteria > are > >>>> incredibly tough, resilient> >>>> > and deceptive.> >>>> > > >>>> > It so happens I am doing a lot of research on it because > a > >>>> test I took in Aug 2010> >>>> > for lyme had one reactive band, and when I had called > back in > >>>> the day for the results, I was only told> >>>> > "it's negative, you're fine."> >>>> > > >>>> > Turns out the test was likely a very outdated test, that > lyme > >>>> is in the middle of a huge war in the medical> >>>> > world, that lyme is not simple to cure and can devestate > the > >>>> body, kill you or make you WISH> >>>> > you were dead if left untreated.> >>>> > > >>>> > I don't know if I have it and I kind of doubt it.> >>>> > Even the tests are not foolproof.> >>>> > The standard CDC test is pretty much outdated.> >>>> > In fact if you ever feel you need testing or your doctor > wants > >>>> to do it,> >>>> > request a Western Blot from IGeneX labs.> >>>> > Another options is Stonybrook labs but in that case you > want > >>>> to request> >>>> > that all bands be tested and not just the ones specified > by > >>>> the 1994 Lyme Symposium> >>>> > of Dearborn MI.> >>>> > > >>>> > I am looking into a better Western Blot test and getting > >>>> insurance to hopefully cover it. Just for peace of mind.> >>>> > > >>>> > Depending on how late you treat, the antibiotics > themselves > >>>> can be very harsh.> >>>> > If you start early though, it's not bad.> >>>> > You can always keep your child on a course of> probiotics.> >>>> >>>> >>>> > > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 Yes I know of that movie and the issue IS complicated. As you say, if it worked wouldn't they be off of it. Also one of the sites I linked here did say the ABX can devestate the immune system, as well as the tick. I think it depends on the state you are in. Folks who remain undiagnosed or misdiagnosed, with MS as you say, want it OUT of their systems so they will take as many ABX as they can, aggresively. The folks on the medhelp forum told me about that movie you suggested, as well as "Cure Unknown," a book by Pam Weintraub. They also told me about the IGeneX lab, and how the vaccine failed and the cover up behind that. The thing that scares folks into the abx is: 1. Getting the bacteria early to avoid being devestated later. 2. You COULD be hurt by long tern ABX if you skip it early, but you WILL be devestated by lyme if you let it go untreated. Or even if you can't know you will be devestated by it, you have no way of knowing the future if you let it go, and by the time you find out the hard way, it can be too late for some types of damage; congestive heart failure for example. I'm glad you know to do such great tick searches but don't get complacent. I don't mean that to sound presumptuous or obnoxious. Clearly you've seen what can happen. And living with stress each day is not good living either. I just would hate to hear of anything bad happening to you or your loved ones. I'll keep Shaw's name handy. I'm going over in my mind, the possibility of doing the IGeneX test. I still think if I had lyme I'd be in some sort of torment by now, but who knows? OQueens NY USA From: "wharrison@..." <wharrison@...>Vaccinations Sent: Friday, April 6, 2012 7:56 PMSubject: Re: {SPAM 05.0} Re: tick bite Oh, that was so long ago, probably 10 years. They were in long enough to be difficult to yank out. I can't remember about the engorgement. Yes, it was the state lab. They used to test any ticks you sent in, then changed it to only ones that attached to a human because they were getting so many. As a matter of fact, I am remembering now that they first sent the report that it was inconclusive because they didn't have the stomach. Well, I knew I got the whole thing or I wouldn't have sent it in. So I called them and they said let me get the tick. Oh, you're right the whole thing is here. We'll retest--and it came back positive! Jeez Louise.... So, now I know it's in our backyard and we check for ticks all the time. Maybe I'm just so used to finding them and not having anything come of it that I don't worry so much. But I do know people who are devastated by it. One friend's son has multiple tick diseases, not just Lyme, and spent much of last year on crutches. He's had issues for years (and I will add was fully vaccinated--in fact, got two series of the Hep B shots by mistake). They go to a Dr. in CT who is "the" doctor around here to go to. Her son was constantly on one antibiotic or another for a couple of years, which is one reason I'm leary of them. You'd think if they were working he wouldn't be so sick. So, is it the Lyme or the antibiotics or both? Hard to know. It's so complex. You can get the movie "Under Our Skin" at his website: (http://www.drjoneskids.com/) An acquaintance of mine, Elise Brady-Moe, is in the film and promoted it in our area. Another friend/neighbor, Kopins Shaw, is very knowledgeable about LD and used to run presentations on it. Her whole family had it at one time or another. She said a lot of cases of MS turn out to be LD and even ALS (Lou Gehrig's disease). She told me that a Dr. Bach in PA has treated advanced cases of ALS and cured them by treating for Lyme. There's so much they don't know. Definitely a concern, but as I said, we'd be on antibiotics all the time for all the ticks we find. Winnie Re: {SPAM 05.0} Re: tick bite> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >Right, you don't want to leave the head in. That's not > wimpish. > >> It's smart. And I agree antibiotics are the lesser of two > evils, > >> if you're dealing with the two and if they work. We'd be on > >> antibiotics all the time with the amount of ticks we pull > off, > >> and that's not healthy either. Go with your gut instincts, > >> though. > >> > > >> >Winnie> >> > > > > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 I heard a radio broadcast that said that lyme disease was created in the laboratories in Georgia during the reign of Stalin by cross breeding fleas that live on rats. Not sure how this was all done, but it was only one broadcast, and I never heard a followup or read anything similar. Anyway, lyme disease is new and suspicious. ~ Maureen R. Gradvohl ~ From: <ericandjamie@...> "Vaccinations " <Vaccinations > Sent: Friday, April 6, 2012 4:35 AM Subject: Re: {SPAM 05.0} Re: tick bite I saw a show once that claims Lyme was created in the labs at plum island off of long island. Not sure of the validity of this but when you look at the heavy presence in the northeast it does sound possible. Check it out online.We used to live on Long island. When we would go horseback riding the horses would be loaded with ticks, everywhere. The horses and dogs all got Lyme but Thank God we never did. It is really horrible how so many have it now!I need to look for a naturopath again here in AL. Anyone know of any? I used to go to the clinic at the school in Bridgeport, CT when I lived in RI. It was convenient and cheap to see a naturopath! On Apr 6, 2012, at 6:00 AM, wharrison@... wrote: Our naturopath told us to put antibiotic ointment on it and watch for symptoms. That's all we've ever done over the past 15 years. Symptoms are how Lyme is many times diagnosed anyway. The tests can be unreliable, probably because most docs don't use the IGeneX as recommended by . One of my sons was at the ER once for an unrelated condition and for some reason they tested him for Lyme, too. It came back borderline and the ped insisted he go on antibiotics while waiting for the Western Blot test results. I refused, and it came back negative. I'm sure many people go ahead and get antibiotics just from the screening test (ELISA) results. Who knows how that affects whether they get Lyme in the future since their immune systems are now compromised and more likely not to be able to fight infections? I often wonder why so many people I know have Lyme. Is it because vaccines have screwed up their ability to fight it? Why has Lyme only become prevalent over the past couple of decades? Where was it 40-50 years ago? Maybe we just now are becoming vulnerable to it due to overuse of antibiotics, OTC drugs and vaccines. Winnie Re: {SPAM 05.0} Re: tick bite> >> "Vaccinations " > >> > >> > Thanks for all those that replied. I have been doing a lot > of > >> > reading about it and think the antibiotics are by far the > lesser > >> > of the two evils. Thanks for all the info provided by > everyone. > >> > I know it sounds lame to be a wimp about taking the tick > off > >> > but my big fear was leaving the head embedded which can > cause > >> > infection too. > >> > Thanks again, > >> > > >> > On Apr 4, 2012, at 12:51 PM, Osanitch > >> > wrote:> >> > > What I say will sound scary and I don't mean to do that > to > >> > you, but> >> > > I feel I have to say it because taking tick bites too > lightly has> >> > > had consequences for a lot of folks.> >> > > > >> > > Now, I generally don't run to antibiotics for everything, > if > >> > anything.> But in this case I would do it.> >> > > > >> > > The impact lyme is having around the world is growing and > this > >> > is one> >> > > bacterium which does not do well with only homeopathic > treatments.>> > > > >> > > Even people who ARE getting ABX are not all getting well.> >> > > Not because it isn't worth doing but because the bacteria > are > >> > incredibly tough, resilient> >> > > and deceptive.> >> > > > >> > > It so happens I am doing a lot of research on it because > a > >> > test I took in Aug 2010> >> > > for lyme had one reactive band, and when I had called > back in > >> > the day for the results, I was only told> >> > > "it's negative, you're fine."> >> > > > >> > > Turns out the test was likely a very outdated test, that > lyme > >> > is in the middle of a huge war in the me dical> >> > > world, that lyme is not simple to cure and can devestate > the > >> > body, kill you or make you WISH> >> > > you were dead if left untreated.> >> > > > >> > > I don't know if I have it and I kind of doubt it.> >> > > Even the tests are not foolproof.> >> > > The standard CDC test is pretty much outdated.> >> > > In fact if you ever feel you need testing or your doctor > wants > >> > to do it,> >> > > request a Western Blot from IGeneX labs.> >> > > Another options is Stonybrook labs but in that case you > want > >> > to request> >> > > that all bands be tested and not just the ones specified > by > >> > the 1994 Lyme Symposium> >> > > of Dearborn MI.> > & g t; > > > >> > > I am looking into a better Western Blot test and getting > >> > insurance to hopefully cover it. Just for peace of mind.> >> > > > >> > > Depending on how late you treat, the antibiotics > themselves > >> > can be very harsh.> >> > > If you start early though, it's not bad.> >> > > You can always keep your child on a course of probiotics.> >> > >> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 I remember hearing something about Plum Island, too. It sure sounds possible. Someone once told me they thought it was from so much land being cleared over time. I'm not sure I buy that. Winnie Re: {SPAM 05.0} Re: tick bite"Vaccinations " > I saw a show once that claims Lyme was created in the labs at > plum island off of long island. Not sure of the validity of > this but when you look at the heavy presence in the northeast it > does sound possible. Check it out online.> > We used to live on Long island. When we would go horseback > riding the horses would be loaded with ticks, everywhere. The > horses and dogs all got Lyme but Thank God we never did. > It is really horrible how so many have it now!> I need to look for a naturopath again here in AL. Anyone know > of any? I used to go to the clinic at the school in Bridgeport, > CT when I lived in RI. It was convenient and cheap to see a > naturopath! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 I agree. I wonder if a parent requested it for that reason if a doctor would do it. Winnie Re: {SPAM 05.0} Re: tick bite"Vaccinations " > No, not IV for a kid who was just bitten.> A doc would not suggest it.> > I'm just saying it's the only way I see around the gut flora > damage risk, but again,> that's awfully extreme and traumatic to do to a kid.> > O> Queens NY USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 No, I understand what you mean about not getting complacent. Around here, everyone is always on the lookout for symptoms and suggesting LD to each other. The peds always jump to checking it out, at least the ones we go to (on those rare occasions!). One of my sons had a knee injury and the ped thought the swelling might be from Lyme, and ordered a test--which we didn't do since we knew he had the injury. They're hypervigilant about it. I honestly wonder sometimes if vaccines have been spiked with it... Winnie Re: {SPAM 05.0} Re: tick bite"Vaccinations " > Yes I know of that movie and the issue IS complicated.> As you say, if it worked wouldn't they be off of it. > Also one of the sites I linked here did say the ABX can > devestate the immune system, as well as the tick.> I think it depends on the state you are in.> Folks who remain undiagnosed or misdiagnosed, with MS as you > say, want it OUT of their systems> so they will take as many ABX as they can, aggresively.> > The folks on the medhelp forum told me about that movie you > suggested, as well as> "Cure Unknown," a book by Pam Weintraub.> They also told me about the IGeneX lab, and how the vaccine > failed and the cover up behind that.> > The thing that scares folks into the abx is: 1. Getting the > bacteria early to avoid being devestated later.> 2. You COULD be hurt by long tern ABX if you skip it early, but > you WILL be devestated by lyme if you let it go untreated.> Or even if you can't know you will be devestated by it, you > have no way of knowing the future if you let it go, and by the time> you find out the hard way, it can be too late for some types of > damage; congestive heart failure for example.> > I'm glad you know to do such great tick searches but don't get > complacent.I don't mean that to sound presumptuous or obnoxious. > Clearly you've seen what can happen.> And living with stress each day is not good living either.> I just would hate to hear of anything bad happening to you or > your loved ones.> > I'll keep Shaw's name handy. I'm going over in my mind, the > possibility of doing the IGeneX test.> I still think if I had lyme I'd be in some sort of torment by > now, but who knows?> > O> Queens NY USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Yes, I've heard the Plum Island story, too, and I hate to say it, but it kind of makes sense since it was named after the town of Old Lyme, which is the closest piece of land across Long Island Sound from Plum Island. I've also heard that it's listed as a biological warfare disease on government documents. Who knows?! Alina > > I remember hearing something about Plum Island, too. It sure sounds possible. Someone once told me they thought it was from so much land being cleared over time. I'm not sure I buy that. > > Winnie > > Re: {SPAM 05.0} Re: tick bite > " Vaccinations " > > > I saw a show once that claims Lyme was created in the labs at > > plum island off of long island. Not sure of the validity of > > this but when you look at the heavy presence in the northeast it > > does sound possible. Check it out online. > > > > We used to live on Long island. When we would go horseback > > riding the horses would be loaded with ticks, everywhere. The > > horses and dogs all got Lyme but Thank God we never did. > > It is really horrible how so many have it now! > > I need to look for a naturopath again here in AL. Anyone know > > of any? I used to go to the clinic at the school in Bridgeport, > > CT when I lived in RI. It was convenient and cheap to see a > > naturopath! > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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