Re: Health Department contacting County Prosecutor/Child Services UPDATE

[Guest guest]

Thank you all for your kind words and prayers. After talking last night with a

trusted aquaintance who used to be the county prosecutor, I became more fearful

that they could actually take my child. He told me that yes, they could do it if

they felt my child was in " imminent danger " , but he wasn't sure of the liklihood

that they would. He also stated that if don't feel my son is in imminent danger,

but they wanted to pursue filing charges against me, that they would serve me

with a civil suit and I would have to defend myself in court. Unfortunately if

it goes that far, the county always has the upper hand because they would have a

panel of experts and I would have to try and find a doctor willing to testify

that the rabies vaccines were not medically necessary in my son's case. I am so

upset over this whole situation and just am not willing to take the risk of

having my son taken away from me or being charged with child neglect. Through

many many tears (mine and my son's) we had the 2nd dose of the vaccine

administered earlier today. I just finished reporting this to the County Health

Department and stated that their implied threats forced us into having the

vaccine, not because it is medically necessary. I was told I would be receiving

a certified letter from them stating that they had informed me of the rabies

disease risk and had advised us to the best of their ability. They are still

waiting to hear back from the county prosecutor as to whether or not they will

be moving forward with charges of child neglect. So it continues, but at least

they won't be able to say my son is in danger from rabies (or his parents'

neglect) for now, since we just got the 2nd dose today.

Again, thank you all for your support and helpful recommendations. It means

everything right now.

Rhian

>

> Hello,

> This past Wednesday my 5 year old unvaxed son tried to pet a baby raccoon out

at dusk. It turned tried to bite him. The raccoon made contact with my son's

hand, but no marks were apparent to the naked eye. We washed his hand with soap

and water thoroughly. When I applied iodine (antiviral) to the area a couple of

tiny spots appeared. I was advised by a nurse-on-call to go get him checked at

the hospital. When we went the ER doctor immediately recommended the rabies

series without even looking at my son's hand. Since the doctor said we had about

24-48 hours of window to begin treatment, we declined the shots and went home to

research and discuss with my husband who had been out of town. The CDC

recommends 1 dose of rabies Immunoglobulin along with 1 dose of rabies vaccine

initially, followed by 3 doses of vaccine on Day 3, Day 7, and Day 14 following

the first treatment. After speaking with the County Health Department and doing

some research into the disease, we decided to get my son the IG dose as well as

the first vaccine dose. We went to the ER within 24 hours of my son's exposure.

I made sure to get the package inserts for later review. Based on the type of

exposure (provoked), the number of confirmed cases of rabid raccoons in the area

in the past three years (0), the fact that good wound care is the best defense

against rabies (soap and water, plus antiviral iodine application), that the IG

dose is providing passive resistance while my son's body starts antibody

production, and that the package insert (as well as a few studies I found)

stated that an acceptable level of circulating antibodies often is achieved in

one dose, my husband and I felt we more than covered the possible risk of

rabies. However, the woman at the Health Department does not feel this way, and

called me this morning to tell me that she had contacted the County Prosecutor

who may go to Child Protective Services. I told her that I would be more than

willing to have my son's antibody levels tested after Day 10 (as this is when

his body should be starting to produce antibodies), but because the CDC

recommendation is doses at DAY 3 and DAY 7 she says there is no time wait for

blood tests that also could take weeks to get results. A friend who was a county

prosecutor has told me that they can take my son away from me if they feel his

life is in danger. And the scary thing is, that the woman at the Health

Department is acting like she is going to pursue this to the fullest extent of

her power. At this point, I'm not even sure she would be satisfied if I agreed

to one more dose (his 2nd dose of vaccine), even though the clinical trials

showed 100% of the participants achieved many time greater titer levels than

recommended by the World Health Organization with just 2 doses given 1 month

apart. Please help me protect my family! Any advice or names of legal advocacy

groups in our area would be so appreciated. I had contacted NVIC and they

referred me to an attorney familiar with vaccine rights. I don't think I have

much time as Child Protective Services can act quickly if they feel it is

necessary.

>

> Sincerely,

> Rhian

> Willoughby Hills, OH

>

[Guest guest]

Right now my son is pretty emotionally traumatized. He did well for the initial

vaccine dose, but the IG shots were very painful. So when I took him yesterday

for the 2nd vaccine done fear completely took over him and he screamed and cried

uncontrollably. I couldn't calm him for anything. So now, even though the

vaccine itself isn't all that painful of a shot, he associates emotional trauma

with it. The last thing I want to do is to cause my child trauma of any sort,

and I'm dreading the 2 more doses we are supposed to have. I don't believe they

are necessary at all and they obviously are causing my son emotional trauma. And

at this point I believe he is at greater risk of a vaccine reaction than rabies.

None of this matters to the County Health Department. Protocol is protocol to

them and I was the first person to ever question it in the case of a child. I

was told that they were writing new policy so this doesn't happen again. (Great,

now I made it worst for any future challengers!) We are still waiting to see if

the prosecutor's office and child services are going to intervene... the not

knowing is the worst. Yes, we should be safe for now, since I caved and got the

2nd vaccine dose, but what happens when it is time for the 3rd and 4th?

As far as my son's health history goes, he was breastfed, had never been

vaccinated, and never had any antibiotics or other medicines before. I had given

him Thuja before the first round of shots. He had soreness at all of the

injection sites, and a small bruise due to bleeding from one of the IG shots,

but no headache or fever. I am getting some Star of Bethlehem today to help with

the emotional/phyical trauma he has endured. He hasn't been sleeping, has been

wetting the bed, and tells me many times a day that he can't have any more

shots. I'm sure some of that is him feeling my anxiety level, but obviously he

is having residual emotional trauma.

The next dose is ordered for Saturday...I am undecided as to whether I will try

and fight it again. I haven't been sleeping or eating, and last night was the

first time I was able to sleep because I knew they didn't have any reason to

file neglect charges against me or take my son. I did think about going on a

" vacation " , but decided that would be equally as stressful and wouldn't help my

case in the long run. I spoke with a lawyer last night and he is on standby in

case they do file charges.

Rhian

> > >

> > > Hello,

> > > This past Wednesday my 5 year old unvaxed son tried to pet a baby

> > raccoon out at dusk. It turned tried to bite him. The raccoon made

> > contact with my son's hand, but no marks were apparent to the naked

> > eye. We washed his hand with soap and water thoroughly. When I

> > applied iodine (antiviral) to the area a couple of tiny spots

> > appeared. I was advised by a nurse-on-call to go get him checked at

> > the hospital. When we went the ER doctor immediately recommended

> > the rabies series without even looking at my son's hand. Since the

> > doctor said we had about 24-48 hours of window to begin treatment,

> > we declined the shots and went home to research and discuss with my

> > husband who had been out of town. The CDC recommends 1 dose of

> > rabies Immunoglobulin along with 1 dose of rabies vaccine

> > initially, followed by 3 doses of vaccine on Day 3, Day 7, and Day

> > 14 following the first treatment. After speaking with the County

> > Health Department and doing some research into the disease, we

> > decided to get my son the IG dose as well as the first vaccine

> > dose. We went to the ER within 24 hours of my son's exposure. I

> > made sure to get the package inserts for later review. Based on the

> > type of exposure (provoked), the number of confirmed cases of rabid

> > raccoons in the area in the past three years (0), the fact that

> > good wound care is the best defense against rabies (soap and water,

> > plus antiviral iodine application), that the IG dose is providing

> > passive resistance while my son's body starts antibody production,

> > and that the package insert (as well as a few studies I found)

> > stated that an acceptable level of circulating antibodies often is

> > achieved in one dose, my husband and I felt we more than covered

> > the possible risk of rabies. However, the woman at the Health

> > Department does not feel this way, and called me this morning to

> > tell me that she had contacted the County Prosecutor who may go to

> > Child Protective Services. I told her that I would be more than

> > willing to have my son's antibody levels tested after Day 10 (as

> > this is when his body should be starting to produce antibodies),

> > but because the CDC recommendation is doses at DAY 3 and DAY 7 she

> > says there is no time wait for blood tests that also could take

> > weeks to get results. A friend who was a county prosecutor has told

> > me that they can take my son away from me if they feel his life is

> > in danger. And the scary thing is, that the woman at the Health

> > Department is acting like she is going to pursue this to the

> > fullest extent of her power. At this point, I'm not even sure she

> > would be satisfied if I agreed to one more dose (his 2nd dose of

> > vaccine), even though the clinical trials showed 100% of the

> > participants achieved many time greater titer levels than

> > recommended by the World Health Organization with just 2 doses

> > given 1 month apart. Please help me protect my family! Any advice

> > or names of legal advocacy groups in our area would be so

> > appreciated. I had contacted NVIC and they referred me to an

> > attorney familiar with vaccine rights. I don't think I have much

> > time as Child Protective Se>

> > > Sincerely,

> > > Rhian

> > > Willoughby Hills, OH

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Well Rhian,

I know what you mean. Cheer up. I couldn't get my understanding MD on the phone

either and was stuck with the clueless nurses. If given a choice, I'd fight one

battle at a time. The most important one is with your son and his mindset about

the whole thing. If your son doesn't believe they will harm him, F the state.

Don't be afraid of the state either, even if you are complying. If you are not

willing or able to handle a battle with them with all that entails, it's ok! :-)

You are picking your battles.... a right that you have that can't be taken away

:-)

In the end when these shots are over you'll never see these people again. Your

son is more important than giving your money away to lawyers and possibly having

your child taken for well meaning strangers to do even more harm.

My son was raised on my milk and then raw goat and cow milk before 1 year old as

per my decision as mom. When he was 14 months old, a raw milk outbreak forced my

dairy to close, and while the raw milk never made him sick, the pasteurized milk

did. I almost took him to the hospital to be like " see what this pasteurized

crap did to my son " , but I didn't want to fight and put him in their

jurisdiction or give up any of my privacy. Nothing wrong about that.

As long as you finish the shots, the state will leave you alone.

If you can find some document even if older that less shots will be ok, I'd try

and use that, but if you can't find, just leave it alone.

I had to feed my son formula that was making him sick so I could get him out of

the hospital when he was born. I was resisting because I felt giving him formula

was a fail. I was already feeling bad that my planned home birth ended up a

hospital Cesarean and I was determined not to fail at this too.

A wise nurse told me in exasperation " Feed the baby the formula and get him home

so you can do it your way " . Of course she said afterwards... " I didnt just say

that :-) " . I was so grateful because it never occured to me in my harried state

to do that.

If you wanted to be really bold, I'd bring this book to the attention of the

annoying Health Department lady and demand that they provide Vitamin C therapy

in conjunction with the rabies shot since they are injecting a known pathogen in

him and the vitamin C seems to diminish the side effects of the vaccine in

studies. Mention that you know about VAERS

http://vaers.hhs.gov/index

and that you are NOT afraid to report this and ANY symptom no matter how slight.

Keep a log. Get her full name as she is a pubic employee, and find out her title

etc the next time she calls you. If anything happens to your son, you would have

a case. If she is not an MD, tell her you want to speak to an MD, specialist and

you want to see studies showing the increased effectiveness of 2 or more shots

against paralasis. As a non MD, she legally cannot give medical advice.

Who knows maybe this will back her down to 1 or 2 less shots but really who

cares. I'd rather my son be ok than win any case. But it might help for your son

to see you not afraid about it all and that you both have some power over this.

If I call her and she wont answer I'll delay the next shot to make her call me.

The first thing I'd ask is her full name, title, her mailing address and the

name of her supervisor. She probably wont answer the last part but public

employees are easy to find.

I personally would go finish the shots to keep them off of your back, but and

do all the homeopathy and vitamin C that you can. My same friend happened to

have some lipospheric Vitamin C and I went to pick some up, but not before I

gave him 10,000mg of the vitamin C I had in the house.

http://store.thegreenpharmacy.com/lypo-spheric-vitamin-c-p133.aspx

The one I gave him was harsh on his stomach but I figured better the runs than

tetanus. It ended up giving him an awful diaper rash that took weeks to go

away.... also better than tetanus.

I looked into the book for you in case you didn't get a chance, and Vitamin C

given in high enough doses can cure full blown RABIES as well!!!

http://www.scribd.com/doc/36111224/18/Rabies-Preventable-Curable-Reversible

So even if your son contracts rabies from the vaccine, enough vitamin C

intraveinously can cure it as well. The lypospheric is good to have on hand so I

bought some, but I'd have him eat oranges and Fermented Cod liver oil and kefir,

some raw grassfed beef liver, raw butter, tallow, home made bone broth and

gelatin and built him up with enough nutrient dense foods so that he has the

materials he needs to fight off anything and doesn't run out of vitamins &

minerals in the process.

After this you've done your best, put up some fight but not gone broke doing it,

and have a perfectly healthy son! This will help you with the powerless feeling

and might be good for your son, and help him to be less afraid.

Thank you for sharing your story. While extremely unfortunate it was a learning

experience and wake up call for us all. We should all have our emergency plan

and emergency back up plan of what to do, since we can't trust our doctor to be

there for us when we need them.

My doctor didn't have anything other than conventional remedies anyway, so if

I'm calling on them asking for help, I have to expect that the hospital and

state are going to do what they know how to do and NEVER call them unless I'm

fully aware of implicitly agreeing to whatever their treatment might be before I

walk in the door to the point of calling and asking what treatment " would be if

a person were to be bit by a possibly rabid animal " .

-Best and Prayers of strength, and keep us up to date with what is going on!

Shaniqua

> > >>>> > >

> > >>>> > > Hello,

> > >>>> > > This past Wednesday my 5 year old unvaxed son tried to pet a baby

> > >>>> > raccoon out at dusk. It turned tried to bite him. The raccoon made

> > >>>> > contact with my son's hand, but no marks were apparent to the naked

> > >>>> > eye. We washed his hand with soap and water thoroughly. When I

> > >>>> > applied iodine (antiviral) to the area a couple of tiny spots

> > >>>> > appeared. I was advised by a nurse-on-call to go get him checked at

> > >>>> > the hospital. When we went the ER doctor immediately recommended

> > >>>> > the rabies series without even looking at my son's hand. Since the

> > >>>> > doctor said we had about 24-48 hours of window to begin treatment,

> > >>>> > we declined the shots and went home to research and discuss with my

> > >>>> > husband who had been out of town. The CDC recommends 1 dose of

> > >>>> > rabies Immunoglobulin along with 1 dose of rabies vaccine

> > >>>> > initially, followed by 3 doses of vaccine on Day 3, Day 7, and Day

> > >>>> > 14 following the first treatment. After speaking with the County

> > >>>> > Health Department and doing some research into the disease, we

> > >>>> > decided to get my son the IG dose as well as the first vaccine

> > >>>> > dose. We went to the ER within 24 hours of my son's exposure. I

> > >>>> > made sure to get the package inserts for later review. Based on the

> > >>>> > type of exposure (provoked), the number of confirmed cases of rabid

> > >>>> > raccoons in the area in the past three years (0), the fact that

> > >>>> > good wound care is the best defense against rabies (soap and water,

> > >>>> > plus antiviral iodine application), that the IG dose is providing

> > >>>> > passive resistance while my son's body starts antibody production,

> > >>>> > and that the package insert (as well as a few studies I found)

> > >>>> > stated that an acceptable level of circulating antibodies often is

> > >>>> > achieved in one dose, my husband and I felt we more than covered

> > >>>> > the possible risk of rabies. However, the woman at the Health

> > >>>> > Department does not feel this way, and called me this morning to

> > >>>> > tell me that she had contacted the County Prosecutor who may go to

> > >>>> > Child Protective Services. I told her that I would be more than

> > >>>> > willing to have my son's antibody levels tested after Day 10 (as

> > >>>> > this is when his body should be starting to produce antibodies),

> > >>>> > but because the CDC recommendation is doses at DAY 3 and DAY 7 she

> > >>>> > says there is no time wait for blood tests that also could take

> > >>>> > weeks to get results. A friend who was a county prosecutor has told

> > >>>> > me that they can take my son away from me if they feel his life is

> > >>>> > in danger. And the scary thing is, that the woman at the Health

> > >>>> > Department is acting like she is going to pursue this to the

> > >>>> > fullest extent of her power. At this point, I'm not even sure she

> > >>>> > would be satisfied if I agreed to one more dose (his 2nd dose of

> > >>>> > vaccine), even though the clinical trials showed 100% of the

> > >>>> > participants achieved many time greater titer levels than

> > >>>> > recommended by the World Health Organization with just 2 doses

> > >>>> > given 1 month apart. Please help me protect my family! Any advice

> > >>>> > or names of legal advocacy groups in our area would be so

> > >>>> > appreciated. I had contacted NVIC and they referred me to an

> > >>>> > attorney familiar with vaccine rights. I don't think I have much

> > >>>> > time as Child Protective Se>

> > >>>> > > Sincerely,

> > >>>> > > Rhian

> > >>>> > > Willoughby Hills, OH

> > >>>> > >

> > >>>> >

> > >>>> >

> > >>>> >

> > >>>> >

> > >>>> >------------------------------------

> > >>>> >

> > >>>> >

[Guest guest]

Does anyone know if the shots they administer after a supposed rabies bite are

the same as the rabies vaccine they give to dogs?

Alina

>

> Well Rhian,

>

> I know what you mean. Cheer up. I couldn't get my understanding MD on the

phone either and was stuck with the clueless nurses. If given a choice, I'd

fight one battle at a time. The most important one is with your son and his

mindset about the whole thing. If your son doesn't believe they will harm him, F

the state.

>