Kefir proteins and insulin spikes

[Guest guest]

I learned recently that milk proteins, and especially fermented milk

products like yogurt and kefir, cause a big release of insulin. It is

not the lactose but the actual milk proteins which do this. Anyhow,

insulin in quantity is of course not good for health. Therefore, I

thought about drinking my kefir slowly throughout the day for a more

even release, but I also thought the insulin might be put to advantage

by taking some kefir before meals to time the insulin release with

carbohydrates in the food. Thoughts?

-

[Guest guest]

I would like to see the science on the proteins in kefir raising insulin. This

is strange enough and bothersome enough (since I adore kefir) for me to insist

upon seeing the science before I give up on kefir because of a rumor.

From: mbstruss@...

Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 09:33:10 -0400

Subject: Kefir proteins and insulin spikes

I learned recently that milk proteins, and especially fermented milk

products like yogurt and kefir, cause a big release of insulin. It is

not the lactose but the actual milk proteins which do this. Anyhow,

insulin in quantity is of course not good for health. Therefore, I

thought about drinking my kefir slowly throughout the day for a more

even release, but I also thought the insulin might be put to advantage

by taking some kefir before meals to time the insulin release with

carbohydrates in the food. Thoughts?

-

[Guest guest]

,

Can you please point me in the direction of any research that shows that

proteins trigger insulin release? I have never heard anything near that.

Leo

On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:33 AM, <mbstruss@...> wrote:

> **

>

>

> I learned recently that milk proteins, and especially fermented milk

> products like yogurt and kefir, cause a big release of insulin. It is

> not the lactose but the actual milk proteins which do this. Anyhow,

> insulin in quantity is of course not good for health. Therefore, I

> thought about drinking my kefir slowly throughout the day for a more

> even release, but I also thought the insulin might be put to advantage

> by taking some kefir before meals to time the insulin release with

> carbohydrates in the food. Thoughts?

>

> -

>

>

[Guest guest]

Here are some articles dealing with milk proteins and insulin. Perhaps I

am misinterpreting the section on fermented milk products? I am curious

how others interpret this..

Inconsistency between glycemic and insulinemic responses to regular and

fermented milk products1,2,3 <http://www.ajcn.org/content/74/1/96.abstract>

Effects of kefirs on glycemic, insulinemic and satiety responses

<http://gradworks.umi.com/14/64/1464360.html>

Dairy and Insulin secretion

<http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-insulin/#axzz2044NKcP9>

Dairy intake, you see, stimulates insulin secretion. Lots and lots

of it -- more than can be explained by the lactose (a sugar)

content. In fact, the lactose content of dairy doesn't even have a

big insulin effect when compared to other carbs. This is surprising

to some, since the general understanding is that insulin is released

primarily in response to carbohydrate intake. What gives? Well, in

evolutionary terms, think about a growing beast needing to maximize

the utility of every drop of the precious liquid. *With dairy, it's

the protein plus the carbs that are responsible for the large

insulin release.

*

It seems like there was another link that I can't find now that

suggested the insulin release was greater in fermented milk products. I

could be wrong, and I wonder how folks interpret the above.

-**

**

[Guest guest]

Okay, I am reading this a little more carefully, and it seems from the

first study (quote below), that only after a high glycemic meal, were

blood sugar and insulin levels lowered via a fermented milk product.

Also, the conclusion seems to imply that the organic acids of the

fermented dairy counteracted the high insulin normal for an unfermented

milk product. I am still confused though, how the fermented milk would

respond in the absence of a high glycemic meal?

As that how others interpret this?

-

*Results:* The lactic acid in the fermented milk products did not

lower the glycemic and insulinemic indexes. Despite low glycemic

indexes of 15--30, all of the milk products produced high

insulinemic indexes of 90--98, which were not significantly

different from the insulinemic index of the reference bread.

Addition of fermented milk (yogurt) and pickled cucumber to a

breakfast with a high--glycemic index bread significantly lowered

postprandial glycemia and insulinemia compared with the reference

meal. In contrast, addition of regular milk and fresh cucumber had

no favorable effect on the metabolic responses.

*Conclusions:* Milk products appear insulinotropic as judged from

3-fold to 6-fold higher insulinemic indexes than expected from the

corresponding glycemic indexes. The presence of organic acids may

counteract the insulinotropic effect of milk in mixed meals.

On 7/8/2012 4:28 PM, wrote:

> Here are some articles dealing with milk proteins and insulin. Perhaps

> I am misinterpreting the section on fermented milk products? I am

> curious how others interpret this..

>

> Inconsistency between glycemic and insulinemic responses to regular

> and fermented milk products1,2,3

> <http://www.ajcn.org/content/74/1/96.abstract>

>

> Effects of kefirs on glycemic, insulinemic and satiety responses

> <http://gradworks.umi.com/14/64/1464360.html>

>

> Dairy and Insulin secretion

> <http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-insulin/#axzz2044NKcP9>

>

> Dairy intake, you see, stimulates insulin secretion. Lots and lots

> of it -- more than can be explained by the lactose (a sugar)

> content. In fact, the lactose content of dairy doesn't even have a

> big insulin effect when compared to other carbs. This is

> surprising to some, since the general understanding is that

> insulin is released primarily in response to carbohydrate intake.

> What gives? Well, in evolutionary terms, think about a growing

> beast needing to maximize the utility of every drop of the

> precious liquid. *With dairy, it's the protein plus the carbs that

> are responsible for the large insulin release.

>

> *

>

> It seems like there was another link that I can't find now that

> suggested the insulin release was greater in fermented milk products.

> I could be wrong, and I wonder how folks interpret the above.

>

> -**

> **

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I always wondered why Atkins discouraged more than a little dairy. This would

explain it.

Larry

From: <mbstruss@...>

Subject: Re: Kefir proteins and insulin spikes

Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 4:28 PM

 

Here are some articles dealing with milk proteins and insulin. Perhaps I

am misinterpreting the section on fermented milk products? I am curious

how others interpret this..

Inconsistency between glycemic and insulinemic responses to regular and

fermented milk products1,2,3 <http://www.ajcn.org/content/74/1/96.abstract>

Effects of kefirs on glycemic, insulinemic and satiety responses

<http://gradworks.umi.com/14/64/1464360.html>

Dairy and Insulin secretion

<http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-insulin/#axzz2044NKcP9>

Dairy intake, you see, stimulates insulin secretion. Lots and lots

of it -- more than can be explained by the lactose (a sugar)

content. In fact, the lactose content of dairy doesn't even have a

big insulin effect when compared to other carbs. This is surprising

to some, since the general understanding is that insulin is released

primarily in response to carbohydrate intake. What gives? Well, in

evolutionary terms, think about a growing beast needing to maximize

the utility of every drop of the precious liquid. *With dairy, it's

the protein plus the carbs that are responsible for the large

insulin release.

*

It seems like there was another link that I can't find now that

suggested the insulin release was greater in fermented milk products. I

could be wrong, and I wonder how folks interpret the above.

-**

**

[Guest guest]

Real science as opposed to voodoo science.

Al

RE: Kefir proteins and insulin spikes

>

>

>I would like to see the science on the proteins in kefir raising insulin. This

is strange enough and bothersome enough (since I adore kefir) for me to insist

upon seeing the science before I give up on kefir because of a rumor.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Guys,

I say we ask Dr. Oz about the difference.  I watch his show and he is always

asking for questions his team can answer.  He has mentioned " Kayfeer " often on

his show, and other fermented products. 

From: <mbstruss@...>

Subject: Re: Kefir proteins and insulin spikes

Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 3:28 PM

 

Here are some articles dealing with milk proteins and insulin. Perhaps I

am misinterpreting the section on fermented milk products? I am curious

how others interpret this..

Inconsistency between glycemic and insulinemic responses to regular and

fermented milk products1,2,3 <http://www.ajcn.org/content/74/1/96.abstract>

Effects of kefirs on glycemic, insulinemic and satiety responses

<http://gradworks.umi.com/14/64/1464360.html>

Dairy and Insulin secretion

<http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-insulin/#axzz2044NKcP9>

Dairy intake, you see, stimulates insulin secretion. Lots and lots

of it -- more than can be explained by the lactose (a sugar)

content. In fact, the lactose content of dairy doesn't even have a

big insulin effect when compared to other carbs. This is surprising

to some, since the general understanding is that insulin is released

primarily in response to carbohydrate intake. What gives? Well, in

evolutionary terms, think about a growing beast needing to maximize

the utility of every drop of the precious liquid. *With dairy, it's

the protein plus the carbs that are responsible for the large

insulin release.

*

It seems like there was another link that I can't find now that

suggested the insulin release was greater in fermented milk products. I

could be wrong, and I wonder how folks interpret the above.

-**

**

[Guest guest]

Dr. Oz??? Are you kidding? He is a sell out and only promotes a product to

make a buck. He will also make recommendations that are harmful...like " it's ok

to buy frozen fruits and veggies and put them in your microwave to cook. " He

makes a deal with a company to sell a product in exchange for money and goes on

his show, promotes the product and within 2 hours the stores have sold out of

whatever he is promoting...whether it's a good product or not.

He is also a shill for big pharma as he says that " YOU need to vaccinate your

children...but he won't be vaccinating his children. " He says that when he is

home, he is not doctor Oz, but is Mr. Oz...his wife won't vaccinate their

children...she is the smart one in the family.

You should seek other sources for your info and it should not be gov or big

pharma if you want the truth.

Al

Re: Kefir proteins and insulin spikes

Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 3:28 PM

Here are some articles dealing with milk proteins and insulin. Perhaps I

am misinterpreting the section on fermented milk products? I am curious

how others interpret this..

Inconsistency between glycemic and insulinemic responses to regular and

fermented milk products1,2,3 <http://www.ajcn.org/content/74/1/96.abstract>

Effects of kefirs on glycemic, insulinemic and satiety responses

<http://gradworks.umi.com/14/64/1464360.html>

Dairy and Insulin secretion

<http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-insulin/#axzz2044NKcP9>

Dairy intake, you see, stimulates insulin secretion. Lots and lots

of it -- more than can be explained by the lactose (a sugar)

content. In fact, the lactose content of dairy doesn't even have a

big insulin effect when compared to other carbs. This is surprising

to some, since the general understanding is that insulin is released

primarily in response to carbohydrate intake. What gives? Well, in

evolutionary terms, think about a growing beast needing to maximize

the utility of every drop of the precious liquid. *With dairy, it's

the protein plus the carbs that are responsible for the large

insulin release.

*

It seems like there was another link that I can't find now that

suggested the insulin release was greater in fermented milk products. I

could be wrong, and I wonder how folks interpret the above.

-**

**

[Guest guest]

Oops, forgot to put the word plastic in the quote... " it's ok to buy frozen

fruits and veggies in plastic bags and put them in the microwave to cook "

The microwave is incredibly dangerous. Not only does it kill all the nutrition

in the food, but it actually changes the food into a harmful substance and don't

forget about adding radiation to your food.

Al

Re: Kefir proteins and insulin spikes

Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 3:28 PM

Here are some articles dealing with milk proteins and insulin. Perhaps I

am misinterpreting the section on fermented milk products? I am curious

how others interpret this..

Inconsistency between glycemic and insulinemic responses to regular and

fermented milk products1,2,3 <http://www.ajcn.org/content/74/1/96.abstract>

Effects of kefirs on glycemic, insulinemic and satiety responses

<http://gradworks.umi.com/14/64/1464360.html>

Dairy and Insulin secretion

<http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-insulin/#axzz2044NKcP9>

Dairy intake, you see, stimulates insulin secretion. Lots and lots

of it -- more than can be explained by the lactose (a sugar)

content. In fact, the lactose content of dairy doesn't even have a

big insulin effect when compared to other carbs. This is surprising

to some, since the general understanding is that insulin is released

primarily in response to carbohydrate intake. What gives? Well, in

evolutionary terms, think about a growing beast needing to maximize

the utility of every drop of the precious liquid. *With dairy, it's

the protein plus the carbs that are responsible for the large

insulin release.

*

It seems like there was another link that I can't find now that

suggested the insulin release was greater in fermented milk products. I

could be wrong, and I wonder how folks interpret the above.

-**

**

[Guest guest]

Duh, Al, I know that.  I say we put him on the spot.

 BTW WA state is having a pertussis epidemic because smart parents aren't vacc

kids.  When you suffer a puncture wound, you don't get a tetanus shot? 

oops, I should have posted this to off topics.

From: <mbstruss@...>

Subject: Re: Kefir proteins and insulin spikes

Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 3:28 PM

Here are some articles dealing with milk proteins and insulin. Perhaps I

am misinterpreting the section on fermented milk products? I am curious

how others interpret this..

Inconsistency between glycemic and insulinemic responses to regular and

fermented milk products1,2,3 <http://www.ajcn.org/content/74/1/96.abstract>

Effects of kefirs on glycemic, insulinemic and satiety responses

<http://gradworks.umi.com/14/64/1464360.html>

Dairy and Insulin secretion

<http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-insulin/#axzz2044NKcP9>

Dairy intake, you see, stimulates insulin secretion. Lots and lots

of it -- more than can be explained by the lactose (a sugar)

content. In fact, the lactose content of dairy doesn't even have a

big insulin effect when compared to other carbs. This is surprising

to some, since the general understanding is that insulin is released

primarily in response to carbohydrate intake. What gives? Well, in

evolutionary terms, think about a growing beast needing to maximize

the utility of every drop of the precious liquid. *With dairy, it's

the protein plus the carbs that are responsible for the large

insulin release.

*

It seems like there was another link that I can't find now that

suggested the insulin release was greater in fermented milk products. I

could be wrong, and I wonder how folks interpret the above.

-**

**

[Guest guest]

The majority of cases are among fully vaccinated children. The vaccines cause

the disease they are " supposed to prevent. " You can't expect to be healthy if

you inject toxic carcinogenic chemicals (that you would NEVER DRINK OR GIVE TO

YOUR CHILD TO DRINK) into the body, bypassing the primary immune system, and

expect to be healthy. It's obvious that you are ignorant of real science and

how vaccines effect the body and believe the voodoo science that big pharma

passes off as truth.

Vaccine failure admitted: Whooping cough outbreaks higher among children already

vaccinated

http://www.naturalnews.com/035466_whooping_cough_vaccines_outbreaks.html

I love these quotes... " I oppose medical fascism backed by Voodoo Science, " said

Dr. Don Hart.

Irwin (from a blog) writes... " Vaccination should be criminalized and all vaccine

pushers jailed, because as far as I'm concerned vaccination is an organized

criminal enterprise dressed up as disease prevention by means of junk science. "

Al

Re: Kefir proteins and insulin spikes

Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 3:28 PM

Here are some articles dealing with milk proteins and insulin. Perhaps I

am misinterpreting the section on fermented milk products? I am curious

how others interpret this..

Inconsistency between glycemic and insulinemic responses to regular and

fermented milk products1,2,3

Effects of kefirs on glycemic, insulinemic and satiety responses

Dairy and Insulin secretion

Dairy intake, you see, stimulates insulin secretion. Lots and lots

of it -- more than can be explained by the lactose (a sugar)

content. In fact, the lactose content of dairy doesn't even have a

big insulin effect when compared to other carbs. This is surprising

to some, since the general understanding is that insulin is released

primarily in response to carbohydrate intake. What gives? Well, in

evolutionary terms, think about a growing beast needing to maximize

the utility of every drop of the precious liquid. *With dairy, it's

the protein plus the carbs that are responsible for the large

insulin release.

*

It seems like there was another link that I can't find now that

suggested the insulin release was greater in fermented milk products. I

could be wrong, and I wonder how folks interpret the above.

-**

**

[Guest guest]

Dr. Oz is an allopathic mainstream doctor and surgeon. You would hardly expect

him to share your beliefs, Al.

Larry

[Guest guest]

Microwave radiation is not the same as radioactive radiation. Neither lingers on

food as it passes through it. Being exposed to either radiation can kill you,

but you have to have the radiation pass through you and not just your food.

Cooking food has been changing the chemical and nutritional makeup of food for

hundreds of thousands of years. The effects include both positive and negative.

The same would be expected from newer cooking technologies.

Larry

[Guest guest]

" It's obvious that you are ignorant of real science " ,  says Al, purveyor of real

science.

Larry

-

[Guest guest]

Larry, let's move to off topic.  Potatoes are the only food that does not taste

to me  like rubber after being in the microwave--I'm no foodie purist. My

mother had to brush off my face the  DDT I got dusted on me...the crop dusters

were beautiful for a young kid to watch in their backyard.

susan

--.

Marilyn, I apologize for conversing with Kefir group when they should be posting

on off topic-----or set up a group of their own--I'd join, if the boys

would let me

From: Larry Lemer <ljlemer@...>

Subject: Re: Re: Kefir proteins and insulin spikes

Date: Monday, July 9, 2012, 12:42 AM

 

Microwave radiation is not the same as radioactive radiation. Neither lingers on

food as it passes through it. Being exposed to either radiation can kill you,

but you have to have the radiation pass through you and not just your food.

Cooking food has been changing the chemical and nutritional makeup of food for

hundreds of thousands of years. The effects include both positive and negative.

The same would be expected from newer cooking technologies.

Larry

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks for the links. They were very interesting. The first two seemed to

say that effects of lactic acid helps in a combined food/hi glycemic meal.

The third link, from MarksDailyApple, his writings are great, both

informative and humorous at the same time, was very interesting. He try's

to, and does quite well, fit things into a logical framework of what things

were for or fit into a primal life back in paleolithic times. Reflecting

on the concept that humans only drank milk in early life, while in a stage

of fast growth, the body would need to be in a continual anabolic state

(insulin present in the system) for that growth to occur. The notion that

putting milk back together from component parts doesn't have the same

insulin response as milk was interesting. It would seem the body has an

innate response to to milk to keep the body in growth mode. This would

also be consistent with the gene responsible for lactase production

shutting down as humans grow older.

This will make me reconsider the amount that might be optimal to take daily.

And depending oh how much and when the others that claimed weight gain took

their kefir it would either support or refute their claims.

Thanks again for the links.

Leo

[Guest guest]

Microwave " radiation " is less energetic quantum-wise than even heat waves. To

get from microwaves to radioactive radiation and particles whose energy is

radioactive equivalent, you would have to go through low wave infrared, short

wave infrared, the visible light of red, orange, yellow, green, turquoise blue

violet, then ultra-violet, x-rays, and finally to gamma rays. This is

approximately a difference in frequency and thus energy of

10,000,000,000,000,000,000 or 1 times 10 to the 18th power.

People's fear of microwaves is mostly hysteria or misplaced. The so-called

radioactive part is utter ignorance. Regular ol' heat is significantly more

energetic at the quantum level than microwaves.

There is the problem of people expecting and getting instantaneous

gratification, which is a serious spiritual problem (just ask the Buddha), which

does not happen with normal food preparation. There is something down-right

spiritual (uplifting) about a person spending time to prepare food and

presumably nurture others. Not so with microwave ovens.

This adds to the benefit of kefir (see, I got kefir into this post) and other

fermented foods. It takes days of loving and thoughtful preparation to do

fermented foods right.

From: ljlemer@...

Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 22:42:21 -0700

Subject: Re: Re: Kefir proteins and insulin spikes

Microwave radiation is not the same as radioactive radiation. Neither

lingers on food as it passes through it. Being exposed to either radiation can

kill you, but you have to have the radiation pass through you and not just your

food.

Cooking food has been changing the chemical and nutritional makeup of food for

hundreds of thousands of years. The effects include both positive and negative.

The same would be expected from newer cooking technologies.

Larry

[Guest guest]

He is pharmacutically and monitarily conflicted! The natural health sources I

follow all agree that Oz is very, very conflicted. What do you think that he

says that you should vaccinate but he won't do it to his own children?

Al

Re: Re: Kefir proteins and insulin spikes

Dr. Oz is an allopathic mainstream doctor and surgeon. You would hardly

expect him to share your beliefs, Al.

Larry

[Guest guest]

Ignorant means lack of knowledge, not stupid.

Al

Re: Re: Kefir proteins and insulin spikes

" It's obvious that you are ignorant of real science " , says Al, purveyor

of real science.

Larry

-

[Guest guest]

Lol, Dr. Oz is no different from watching Ray. She makes a meal and

declares it " low fat " and everyone applauds. The next day she makes a meal

and declares it " low carb " and everyone applauds. The third day she makes

a meal that is " high fiber " (obviously high carb, plus some fiber) and they

applaud (yes, with prompting).

Its all crap.

Leo

On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 12:52 PM, <ouched63188@...> wrote:

> **

>

>

> He is pharmacutically and monitarily conflicted! The natural health

> sources I follow all agree that Oz is very, very conflicted. What do you

> think that he says that you should vaccinate but he won't do it to his own

> children?

>

> Al

>

> Re: Re: Kefir proteins and insulin spikes

>

> Dr. Oz is an allopathic mainstream doctor and surgeon. You would hardly

> expect him to share your beliefs, Al.

>

> Larry

>

>

[Guest guest]

She's from upstate NY...but I don't listen to Ray. She doesn't talk

about organic, non-GMO or superfoods does she?

Al

Re: Re: Kefir proteins and insulin spikes

>>

>> Dr. Oz is an allopathic mainstream doctor and surgeon. You would hardly

>> expect him to share your beliefs, Al.

>>

>> Larry

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

you missed the whole point of what I was saying. It's all about marketing

and $$$. Please re read and you may get the point. I never proffered that

RR was organic,etc.

Leo

On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 1:47 PM, <ouched63188@...> wrote:

> **

>

>

> She's from upstate NY...but I don't listen to Ray. She doesn't talk

> about organic, non-GMO or superfoods does she?

>

> Al

>

>

> Re: Re: Kefir proteins and insulin spikes

> >>

> >> Dr. Oz is an allopathic mainstream doctor and surgeon. You would hardly

> >> expect him to share your beliefs, Al.

> >>

> >> Larry

> >>

> >>

[Guest guest]

I know it's all about marketing and money.

Al

Re: Re: Kefir proteins and insulin spikes

>> >>

>> >> Dr. Oz is an allopathic mainstream doctor and surgeon. You would hardly

>> >> expect him to share your beliefs, Al.

>> >>

>> >> Larry

>> >>

>> >>