Re: Help...Milk Kefir not thickening

April 13, 2012

I have the same thing happening to me, but I am unsure it has the same

cause.

I live in Florida and my kefir began doing the same as you describe. At

first I thought I wasn't leaving my kefir long enough, but although I tried

longer (48 hours) nothing changed. After experimentation I learned that I

have to stir my kefir after 12 hours (or so) and then let it sit....maybe

stir again in another 12 hours, or strain it to eat/drink.* I have read

that in the ancient mid-east the kefir, which was fermented in goatskin

" bags " , was hung in a doorway and agitated (tapped, shaken) every time

someone passed by.*

*

In our home this all began when the temperatures outside changed, became

warmer. Lately it has been in the 80s outside and I have not been using my

air conditioner much, if at all. Usually in the winter our house is quite

cool (tile floors, high ceilings, no heat) so the internal temperature is

around 68 or 70. And in the summer we keep the a/c between 76 and 72 with

low humidity. But this time of year we are not reducing the humidity nor

do we have the a/c going.

That's the only thing I can think of..

Kim.

April 14, 2012

Let me take a stab at the problem. I'm new to making kefir but my training was

in food chemistry (and no, it wasn't all about adding chemicals to our

foods....just some of it. LOL). Much of my early career was in the dairy

industry making cultured products.

I think your kefir is over cultured (i.e. it fermented too long). This causes

the pH to become too low so the milk proteins precipitate (curdle)out of

solution. The normally thick kefir turns to water with little tiny curds

floating around.

I recently tried a 2nd ferment (another day at room temperature after the grains

were removed) and my thickened kefir turned to water with little tiny specks of

curds floating around.

I also, as an experiment, took a little yogurt and added cider vinegar and,

" WALA " , it turned to water with little tiny curds floating around.

We kefir makers have to deal with several variables: the amount of grains, the

temperature of the milk when fermenting - the house temperature is warmer as the

weather warms and the duration of the ferment. I'm finding as my grains grow and

the weather warms, my fermentation time becomes shorter than the prescribed 24

hours.

Also, it makes sense that occasional agitation, as suggested, reduces this

runny consistency because the area of high acid around the grains is being

diluted as they mix with the rest of the solution.

Let me suggest this. Don't hold fast to the 24 hour ferment. When you see little

whey pockets near where the grains are, it could be time to strain and

refrigerate. At this point, at least give your bottle a swirl and see if it is

thick enough for your liking....but don't let it go too long.

Hope this helps!

tom

>

> I've been making kefir for about 6 months now. It has always been thick and

turns out great. My grains have been growing and I have shared them with many

people.

>

> About a week ago I went to strain my kefir from the grains and it was still

really runny like I had just added the milk. So I thought, maybe it hadn't been

24 hours yet (sometimes I forget if I started it in the morning, or the night

before). This was at night, so I let it go until the next morning. It still

looked the same.

>

> I thought something was wrong, so I threw out that batch and started a new

one. The same thing happened, really runny. This time I noticed that my grains

looked like they were encased in what looked like the curd you get when the

kefir separates. And it smelt more yeasty than normal.

>

> We went out of town for a few days and I took it with me. I noticed that on

the days that we were traveling in the car, it turned out just fine. I'm

guessing from the agitation.

>

> Have any of you had this happen? It almost looks like the grains are getting

coated and then are unable to ferment the rest of the milk.

>

> Please let me know if you have any idea of what is causing this.

> Thanks,

> Lori

>

April 15, 2012

Tom,

That was very interesting. So, are you saying that the second ferment reduces

or increases lactic acid? If you have more lactic acid does that mean the Ph is

higher or lower? The way I understand it, people who have trouble digesting

their foods do not have enough acid in their stomach and the Ph of their stomach

is too high. These people need more acid, not less. The people that have acid

reflux and are on proton pump inhibitors have a terrible time trying to digest

their food and it putrifies in their gut. They drugs turn off the acid when

tbey need more acid to break down the food.

Bell talks about this all the time.

Al

Re: Help...Milk Kefir not thickening

Let me take a stab at the problem. I'm new to making kefir but my training

was in food chemistry (and no, it wasn't all about adding chemicals to our

foods....just some of it. LOL). Much of my early career was in the dairy

industry making cultured products.

I think your kefir is over cultured (i.e. it fermented too long). This causes

the pH to become too low so the milk proteins precipitate (curdle)out of

solution. The normally thick kefir turns to water with little tiny curds

floating around.

I recently tried a 2nd ferment (another day at room temperature after the grains

were removed) and my thickened kefir turned to water with little tiny specks of

curds floating around.

I also, as an experiment, took a little yogurt and added cider vinegar and,

" WALA " , it turned to water with little tiny curds floating around.

We kefir makers have to deal with several variables: the amount of grains, the

temperature of the milk when fermenting - the house temperature is warmer as the

weather warms and the duration of the ferment. I'm finding as my grains grow and

the weather warms, my fermentation time becomes shorter than the prescribed 24

hours.

Also, it makes sense that occasional agitation, as suggested, reduces this

runny consistency because the area of high acid around the grains is being

diluted as they mix with the rest of the solution.

Let me suggest this. Don't hold fast to the 24 hour ferment. When you see little

whey pockets near where the grains are, it could be time to strain and

refrigerate. At this point, at least give your bottle a swirl and see if it is

thick enough for your liking....but don't let it go too long.

Hope this helps!

tom

>

> I've been making kefir for about 6 months now. It has always been thick and

turns out great. My grains have been growing and I have shared them with many

people.

>

> About a week ago I went to strain my kefir from the grains and it was still

really runny like I had just added the milk. So I thought, maybe it hadn't been

24 hours yet (sometimes I forget if I started it in the morning, or the night

before). This was at night, so I let it go until the next morning. It still

looked the same.

>

> I thought something was wrong, so I threw out that batch and started a new

one. The same thing happened, really runny. This time I noticed that my grains

looked like they were encased in what looked like the curd you get when the

kefir separates. And it smelt more yeasty than normal.

>

> We went out of town for a few days and I took it with me. I noticed that on

the days that we were traveling in the car, it turned out just fine. I'm

guessing from the agitation.

>

> Have any of you had this happen? It almost looks like the grains are getting

coated and then are unable to ferment the rest of the milk.

>

> Please let me know if you have any idea of what is causing this.

> Thanks,

> Lori

>

April 15, 2012

Hi Tom

>>I think your kefir is over cultured (i.e. it fermented too long). I recently

tried a 2nd ferment (another day at room temperature after the grains were

removed) and my thickened kefir turned to water with little tiny specks of curds

floating around.<<

You really kick-started my brain for today along the same lines I have been

pondering on my own. This helps me go further in my own current thinking,

putting two and two together about my own daily kefir. Thanks.

I have had these grains since January and until I came to my Dad's house in Feb

to take care of him (He's not well) I also had nice ferments. Dad's house is

warmer and I was not taking that into consideration and have had lots of whey

and baby curds, as you suggest. So lately I have been wondering myself if I am

not using a fine enough strainer to strain my grians, allowing kefir grains

coming out along with the kefir/whey when I strain the grains, making the second

ferment become like a first ferment again when I seal up that second-ferment

jar. Because my second ferment becomes half and half whey and curds; and when I

stir that, it becomes all whey. There is no thickness at all.

My current grains don't grow bigger. But they multiply and look like small curd

cottage cheese. So as I am working it in the strainer, it becomes cream cheese,

except for the original large grains that I started with in January. Those I

scoop out and make my new batch with.

I have started to stay back with a quart again instead of two qts because of how

I was thinking this through. But you helped me think it out further: So now I

know for sure that I had really been continuing to ferment it.

>>I also, as an experiment, took a little yogurt and added cider vinegar and,

" WALA " , it turned to water with little tiny curds floating around.<<

Thia happens when I put kefir and kombucha together, too. I don't do that to

ferment. I do it to drink right away. Tho I have left some in my glass overnight

and the next day it was still good to drink.

>>Also, it makes sense that occasional agitation, as suggested, reduces this

runny consistency because the area of high acid around the grains is being

diluted as they mix with the rest of the solution. Don't hold fast to the 24

hour ferment. When you see little whey pockets near where the grains are, it

could be time to strain and refrigerate. At this point, at least give your

bottle a swirl and see if it is thick enough for your liking....but don't let it

go too long.<<

I will gladly try your suggestions because I want my grains to grow and I just

wonder if my 24-hr ferments, now that I am in this warmer house, are actually

letting the baby grains fall off of the larger grains because it becomes whey

too fast. Don't know for sure, but it is worth a try. Two different sets of

grains thru ten months of last year would not grow or multiply at all. So I am

very thankful to be at least one step closer with these newest grains.

Lyn

- In , " Lori " <dannlori1@...> wrote:

>

> I've been making kefir for about 6 months now. It has always been thick and

turns out great. My grains have been growing and I have shared them with many

people.

>

> About a week ago I went to strain my kefir from the grains and it was still

really runny like I had just added the milk. So I thought, maybe it hadn't been

24 hours yet (sometimes I forget if I started it in the morning, or the night

before). This was at night, so I let it go until the next morning. It still

looked the same.

>

> I thought something was wrong, so I threw out that batch and started a new

one. The same thing happened, really runny. This time I noticed that my grains

looked like they were encased in what looked like the curd you get when the

kefir separates. And it smelt more yeasty than normal.

>

> We went out of town for a few days and I took it with me. I noticed that on

the days that we were traveling in the car, it turned out just fine. I'm

guessing from the agitation.

>

> Have any of you had this happen? It almost looks like the grains are getting

coated and then are unable to ferment the rest of the milk.

>

> Please let me know if you have any idea of what is causing this.

> Thanks,

> Lori

>

April 15, 2012

Hi, all; this is what I do to correct watery kefir here in Txas:

What you will need:

6 of the freeze/hot camping packs thingies from the camping department at

Wal-MArt. You can either freeze them to help keep things cold ion the cooler,

or heat them up to help keep your feet warm in the sleeping bag..*LOL*; (I have

2, and have discovered that I need 4 more for this to work right.... I will be

picking up 4 more next week)

a cheap square styrofoam cooler with a lid from either Wal-MArt ( if you can

find them there) or the local gocery store; they're usually by the ice machines

or down the 'summer' product aisle.

Milk ( I use 2%)

Heavy cream

Kefir grains

jars

Okay, step 1 Freeze the hot/cold packs.

Step 2: Rinse your grains.

Step 3: Wash your jars in hot soapy water.

Step 4: place your grains back into your jars, and only put about a tablespoon

and a half of grains to each quart.

Step 4: add milk, and add about a quarter cup of cream to it in the jar. I found

the cream helps my grains recover from the rinsing, and afer making a couple of

batches of kefir with the cream, I can go back to using the plain 2%.

Step 5. Place your jars of kefir into the cooler, arrange the frozen cold packs

around them, and put the lid on. shake jars ever 4 to 6 hours.Its okay to leave

them overnight; I have discovered that if I add some ice in a plastic bag

overnight in the cooler, it helps keep the temp low enough for the kefir to

process and not get too warm and it thickens up nicely and doesn't get watery.

I usually check them about 3:00 a.m. when I have to go to the bathroom; but I

generally don't strain until I get up aropund 8:00 a.m.

I want to use the cold packs instead of the ice because I don't have much

freezer room to keep ice trays frozen all the time; the ice pack/hot packs

thingies from Wal-Mart (for only 1.88 each!) will actually work out better for

me.

I figure for, what, around $15.00 outlay for the cooler, ice packs and cream,

you get thicker kefir and a better product, and everyone is happy.

Hope this helps! -- Kim in TX

April 15, 2012

go back to post 8510, March 5

and follow that thread.

I have started putting my kefir in the fridge at night, or on warmer days, then

taking it out to finish, it is doing better. I have even set the jar in a bowl

of cool water for the day. It is the up and down temp. It will level out once I

start using the AC 24/7.

pam in TX

>

> I've been making kefir for about 6 months now. It has always been thick and

turns out great. My grains have been growing and I have shared them with many

people.

>

> About a week ago I went to strain my kefir from the grains and it was still

really runny like I had just added the milk. So I thought, maybe it hadn't been

24 hours yet (sometimes I forget if I started it in the morning, or the night

before). This was at night, so I let it go until the next morning. It still

looked the same.

>

> I thought something was wrong, so I threw out that batch and started a new

one. The same thing happened, really runny. This time I noticed that my grains

looked like they were encased in what looked like the curd you get when the

kefir separates. And it smelt more yeasty than normal.

>

> We went out of town for a few days and I took it with me. I noticed that on

the days that we were traveling in the car, it turned out just fine. I'm

guessing from the agitation.

>

> Have any of you had this happen? It almost looks like the grains are getting

coated and then are unable to ferment the rest of the milk.

>

> Please let me know if you have any idea of what is causing this.

> Thanks,

> Lori

>

April 16, 2012

This is probably the best strainer for straining your milk and water kefir

grains. I would use a different strainer for each to avoid cross

contamination. This picture is from Cultures For Health and is a little more

expensive than you may pay at a local kitchen specialty cooking store, but if

you don't have one nearby you can look for one just like it or order from

Cultures. It is a fine mesh strainer that makes it sooo easy to strain, even if

the kefir has gotten thick like cottage cheese. I have an 8 cup glass measuring

cup that I strain into. I tap the full strainer on the edge of the glass and

the kefir goes right through in less then a minute.

http://www.culturesforhealth.com/plastic-mesh-strainer-1.html

Al

Re: Re: Help...Milk Kefir not thickening