Help

[Guest guest]

One person once asked me this, and it has calmed me down many times. Would you love your child any differently because of a label? My son was releieved in Kindergarten to have a name for what made his brain somewhat different. It is hard, I cried for awhile, and I knew the diagnosis was coming. That was 5 years ago. I still love him the same, I would still love him if he was purple. At the end of the day, that is all that matters. Kernan <jkernan@...> wrote: I haven't said much on the list, but with this I felt I had to say something. Leah, I wish so much that my son who is now 18 had been diagnosed as young as your son has been. We didn't find out until he was 18! You have some advantages that these older children unfortunately will not or do not have. There are many programs out there for toddlers and very young children where they can stay at home and still get the benefits of these programs. The therapist we work with runs a daycare/school for toddlers and young kids who have autism. So I know they are out there. My son now, who is an adult has the fewest programs available to help him. He was 12 when diagnosed and the local mental health facilities did not know what AS was let alone

how to work with him.I knew something was different with as a baby and no one would help me that I went to for help...not till he was 12. It has been stressful to say the least. Don't feel guilty about what you could have done or could do...just accept that this is what is and don't beat yourself up for it. No one knows why these special children come to us. But their blessings in our lives are countless and for a purpose. If you need a break, don't feel guilty about taking it. It is a survival method that is essential for parents and caretakers. Lots of love and structure, schedules and love! These kids do well with lots of structure and schedules..they're like a security blanket. Something you may want to read up on is what are

called Indigo Children....almost all AS children fit into this category! It is amazing information. Also check into getting Biofeedback therapy with a practitioner who uses a EPFX, QXCI or SCIO equipment. They have the ability to work with AS and DNA issues. This can help greatly in relaxation and other issues. As a practitioner myself, I have used this on my son with wonderful results. Best Wishes Kernan My Size Barbie Fashions by Rainysnana can be found at my store at The Doll Pagehttp://www.rainysnana.com

Sports Fantasy Football ’06 - Go with the leader. Start your league today!

[Guest guest]

At 07:27 PM 6/22/2006, you wrote:

>I am doing the Level one work book by Mandy Aftel.

>

>I was wondering why is it that a couple of days after I dip my testing

>strip into top note oils

>such as bitter orange or black pepper can I still smell the fragrance on

>the strip? I notice the

>changes she mentions as the essence evaporates but then the dry out phase

>tends to last and last. I can still smell rosewood (mmmmh) twelve hours later.

>

>I thought top notes disapeared very quickly? I hope these are not really

>stupid questions but I

>am a little confused, I guess the answer doesn't matter all that much as

>it's best to just trust

>my nose, eh?

Hi Zita:

Chat has been quiet lately, as I think the summer doldrums have hit a lot

of us (me especially!)

I'll see if my take on this makes sense to you.

The intitial " blast " of a topnote, those most volatile components of the

oil, what we think of when we say topnote, well, they're gone. Remember all

oils are complex, with many chemical components. It is the lingering

components that you are detecting. Examining them, you will admit they do

not have the blast of the initial sniff, yes?

A good example is pandanus. Extremely volatile, the top blast may only last

a minute or two, yet the rosier, more persistent scent of the drydown can

last for 24 hours or more.

Perfumer's World software says black pepper oil has a blotter life of 16

hours, rosewood 20 hours. So there you go.

Anya

http://artisannaturalperfumers.com The Artisan Natural Perfumers Guild

http://.com The premier site on Natural Perfume

/

Biggest, most dynamic natural perfumery chat group

[Guest guest]

I'm 60. How's that for aged??? LOL I don't follow BFL religiously, but

I do use the best elements for my fitness program. I decided that I

wanted to run (never have in my life)and Bill's (I hope he doesn't

mind me being so familiar)HIIT program got me started. I just made a

pact with myself to DO it! I was amazed at how easy it was for me -

and in just under 6 weeks I'm running 5k several days a week with a

couple of days concentrating on upping my intensity. I can call myself

a runner now and you have no idea how much that means to me.

I worked with a trainer at my gym for a while and he had me doing

heavy weight work, which was fine and I liked it - but it got to the

point where the trainer was too expensive for me to keep up with - and

if I go to use weights myself I never put in the required effort -

sooooo - I go to a BodyPump class 3 times a week and keep adding

weight every few weeks. It's an hour of lifting to music that I like

and I know I'll do. I've lost 120 pounds with about 40 more to go to

get where I think I will be happy. I may want to go lower when I get

there.

The older we get the more important it is to get strong bones and

muscle - but it's also important to not overdo in the beginning. Set

small goals for yourself and stick to them. Once you achieve a few

you'll want to continue.

The HIIT is what got me some quick results and gave me the incentive

to keep on.

Lybbe

http://lybbe1631.blogspot.com/

>

> As i have aged, i have no motivation. what have you done to get

> started and keep it going? Help me please.

>

[Guest guest]

<<<As i have aged, i have no motivation. what have you done to get started and

keep it going? Help me please.>>>

I look at my before pictures atleast two or three times a week to keep me

motivated. I purchased a pair of jeans in a smaller size and tried them on once

a week. It's neat to see the progress on how the fit. I have Hubby take pics

of me every two weeks to document my progress. I try new activities for

exercise. I reward myself with every 10 lbs I lose.

Just some ideas,

a

223/140.6/132

a

[Guest guest]

It's because I am aging that I have motivation. I want to feel as

good as I can for the next decades. When I was measuring myself to my

hot 24 year old self, the motivation was hard because I knew I'd

never get there. Now that it's about feeling good for as long as

possible, I'm happy to take little steps to make as much improvement

as possible. Maybe your problem is not that you've aged but that you

haven't aged enough LOL Enough to have given up self defeating

fantasies and just take each day for the precious gift of one more

day being alive How old are you? I'm 53. And I was sick much of

last year -- nothing serious but it took a year out of my life to

just get to OK.

The other thought I had is maybe you don't feel very good. Maybe you

just need to work on eating healthy and some 'healing art' type

exercises and not go for the more macho type of work out. And then

work forward from that.

felicity

> As i have aged, i have no motivation. what have you done to get

> started and keep it going? Help me please.

>

[Guest guest]

Aging is exactly the motivation I needed to get my butt in gear. I had

my " revelation " when I was 43. I got a job in a bookstore and discovered

what crappy shape my body was in from a lifetime lack of exercise and

nutrition. My whole body ached, my back kept going out on me, and I was

huffing and puffing from carrying an armful of books upstairs.

The bookstore itself provided the jump-start I needed--I began my

" & Noble Exercise Program " by using the stairs instead of the

elevator whenever I could and using my arms instead of the cart to move

books around. Once I was able to get through a day of that without

dieing, I started doing some light arm and ab exercises at home. Then I

ditched my International Coffee habit.

It just sort of snow-balled from there until I turned into the

health-nut I am today. I lost 40 pounds, gained strength and

cardiovascular fitness and now eat a healthy diet and have a regular

weight and cardio exercise schedule, and I'm in much better shape at age

47 than I was in my 30s.

Naomi

******

jones6936 wrote:

>

> As i have aged, i have no motivation. what have you done to get

> started and keep it going? Help me please.

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Naomi

Just thought I'd let you know -- you are one of my inspirations.

felicity

> Aging is exactly the motivation I needed to get my butt in gear. I

> had

> my " revelation " when I was 43. I got a job in a bookstore and

> discovered

> what crappy shape my body was in from a lifetime lack of exercise and

> nutrition. My whole body ached, my back kept going out on me, and I

> was

> huffing and puffing from carrying an armful of books upstairs.

>

> The bookstore itself provided the jump-start I needed--I began my

> " & Noble Exercise Program " by using the stairs instead of the

> elevator whenever I could and using my arms instead of the cart to

> move

> books around. Once I was able to get through a day of that without

> dieing, I started doing some light arm and ab exercises at home.

> Then I

> ditched my International Coffee habit.

>

> It just sort of snow-balled from there until I turned into the

> health-nut I am today. I lost 40 pounds, gained strength and

> cardiovascular fitness and now eat a healthy diet and have a regular

> weight and cardio exercise schedule, and I'm in much better shape

> at age

> 47 than I was in my 30s.

>

> Naomi

> ******

>

> jones6936 wrote:

>>

>> As i have aged, i have no motivation. what have you done to get

>> started and keep it going? Help me please.

>>

>>

>> <> | Unsubscribe

>> <mailto:-unsubscribe ?

>> subject=Unsubscribe>

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[Guest guest]

The notion that I can be 50 and have the body of a 20 year old is all

the motivation that I need. No matter who you are or how bad shape you

are in now, you can achieve the same " turning back of Father Time "

effects of BFL. It may take longer than 12 weeks, and perhaps longer

than six months, but diligent effort to stay with it will produce

unbelievable results.

Stasia

>

> As i have aged, i have no motivation. what have you done to get

> started and keep it going? Help me please.

>

[Guest guest]

Felicity wrote:

Aww shucks; thanks! Yeah, I pretty much tell people that if I can do it,

anyone can. I wasn't grossly overweight (40 pounds) but I had absolutely

no muscle except what I needed to drag myself around all day, and my

lung capacity was zip.

Naomi

******

>

> Naomi

> Just thought I'd let you know -- you are one of my inspirations.

> felicity

>

>

> > Aging is exactly the motivation I needed to get my butt in gear. I

> > had

> > my " revelation " when I was 43. I got a job in a bookstore and

> > discovered

> > what crappy shape my body was in from a lifetime lack of exercise and

> > nutrition. My whole body ached, my back kept going out on me, and I

> > was

> > huffing and puffing from carrying an armful of books upstairs.

> >

> > The bookstore itself provided the jump-start I needed--I began my

> > " & Noble Exercise Program " by using the stairs instead of the

> > elevator whenever I could and using my arms instead of the cart to

> > move

> > books around. Once I was able to get through a day of that without

> > dieing, I started doing some light arm and ab exercises at home.

> > Then I

> > ditched my International Coffee habit.

> >

> > It just sort of snow-balled from there until I turned into the

> > health-nut I am today. I lost 40 pounds, gained strength and

> > cardiovascular fitness and now eat a healthy diet and have a regular

> > weight and cardio exercise schedule, and I'm in much better shape

> > at age

> > 47 than I was in my 30s.

> >

> > Naomi

> > ******

> >

> > jones6936 wrote:

> >>

> >> As i have aged, i have no motivation. what have you done to get

> >> started and keep it going? Help me please.

> >>

> >>

> >> <

> <>> | Unsubscribe

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[Guest guest]

Hello,

Long time no post, but lurking. I am motivated too by trying to

prevent the misery of diabetes and osteoporosis I see in my familly.

My grandmother (also one of many diabetic relatives)cannot move due to

the pain of osteoporosis. Her bones are so low density that her

vertebrae have compression fractures from their own weight. Increased

bone density is one of the many benefits of weight training.

I think these have been mentioned, but just looking at Oxygen magazine

helps me, as well as working w/a trainer (or a workout partner) if

that's a possibility.

Candace

>

> I work out because I want to live.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Excellent post--that about sums it up for me. I didn't want to become

one of those semi-invalid folks you feel sorry for who you see riding

around in the little electric carts at the supermarket. And believe me,

I was headed there before I started taking care of myself.

Naomi

******

lrcsam wrote:

>

> I work out because I want to live.

>

> I get a big shot of motivation every time I have dinner

> with my in-laws. While he is fairly active physically,

> her idea of physical activity is swimming 4 nice slow

> laps once a week and walking from the car (parked as

> close as possible) to the door. She never carries

> groceries or shopping bags or lift any boxes or reach

> for things stored over her head because, as she says,

> that's what men are for. And after a lifetime of not

> doing those things by choice, she can no longer do

> them even if she wanted to.

>

> She's quite a bit overweight and can no longer bend

> down to reach into the bottom of the cabinets. They

> bought a new refrigerator with the freezer on the

> bottom because that way she can reach the vegetable

> bins without bending over. Cooking is a problem because

> the pans are too heavy. She's having trouble getting

> up from a sitting position without help.

>

> They just came back from a nice little vacation. I

> noticed that she's not in about half the pictures.

> Turns out she couldn't do all that walking every day

> so sat out some of the tours but insisted that he go.

>

> I could go on but you get the idea. Don't get me

> wrong, she's a nice lady and I love her very much.

> But it frustrates me to no end that she thinks my

> working out is just not lady-like and that I should

> have her son carry my things for me.

>

> I used to hate squats until I realized that's the

> exercise that will enable me to get up off the

> toilet all by myself in 25 years (I'm 48.) Because

> when you need help with that, it's time to move to

> the old folk's home. There's a reason they call

> them " assisted living centers " now.

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Holy F*** smokes, that post just turned me into a proud 33 yr old

weight lifting Whoa-man.

I fight the little voice from my Dad who told me to stay clear of

sports growing up (no baseball, soccer) because it would make me

agressive and competitive- I was a cheerleader for 5 yrs, go figure.

Ive recently fought my mom's mini-fit, when she saw my picture last

week waving " hi " , and my bicep bulged (NON-creatine induced)

I fight my skinny-fat vegetarian girlfriends at lunch, who gain more

squishy bulge and have less booty every time I see them.

Its SO SO important to break the mold that society has poured women

into.

ouch, brain strain on that one.

--

>

> I work out because I want to live.

>

> I get a big shot of motivation every time I have dinner

> with my in-laws. While he is fairly active physically,

> her idea of physical activity is swimming 4 nice slow

> laps once a week and walking from the car (parked as

> close as possible) to the door. She never carries

> groceries or shopping bags or lift any boxes or reach

> for things stored over her head because, as she says,

> that's what men are for. And after a lifetime of not

> doing those things by choice, she can no longer do

> them even if she wanted to.

>

> She's quite a bit overweight and can no longer bend

> down to reach into the bottom of the cabinets. They

> bought a new refrigerator with the freezer on the

> bottom because that way she can reach the vegetable

> bins without bending over. Cooking is a problem because

> the pans are too heavy. She's having trouble getting

> up from a sitting position without help.

>

> They just came back from a nice little vacation. I

> noticed that she's not in about half the pictures.

> Turns out she couldn't do all that walking every day

> so sat out some of the tours but insisted that he go.

>

> I could go on but you get the idea. Don't get me

> wrong, she's a nice lady and I love her very much.

> But it frustrates me to no end that she thinks my

> working out is just not lady-like and that I should

> have her son carry my things for me.

>

> I used to hate squats until I realized that's the

> exercise that will enable me to get up off the

> toilet all by myself in 25 years (I'm 48.) Because

> when you need help with that, it's time to move to

> the old folk's home. There's a reason they call

> them " assisted living centers " now.

>

>

>

> " jones6936 " <jones6936@> asked:

> >

> > As i have aged, i have no motivation. what have you done to get

> > started and keep it going? Help me please.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

When I saw this, I smiled and had to respond. I too am motivated by

my in-laws - but for the opposite reasons! My father-in-law is 83

and started off his summer by rebuilding his entire front walk - on

his own. He is a retired professor who bicycles to his lab almost

daily and is still researching and publishing zoological studies.

My mother-in-law celebrated her 80th birthday with a two week

walking tour of China. She spent her 81st birthday doing 10K walks

on consecutive days in NYC.

And my parents? They have been gone for years, both lost to

diseases caused by excess and overindulgence. They always made fun

of people who were active and exercised and watched what they ate

and drank. There are no guarantees but I can tell you my in-laws

are enjoying their twilight years far more than my parents did while

they were still alive - because my in-laws can walk and travel and

enjoy their kids and grandkids and remain intellectually vigorous,

in no small part because they have always exercised and eaten well

and stayed involved in their community. If you feel good it will

cascade into all parts of your life and the effects of that are far

more long-lasting than the transient pleasure of a candy bar or some

French fries or sleeping in when you could be getting some exercise

somewhere.

Lo

>

> I work out because I want to live.

>

> I get a big shot of motivation every time I have dinner

> with my in-laws. While he is fairly active physically,

> her idea of physical activity is swimming 4 nice slow

> laps once a week and walking from the car (parked as

> close as possible) to the door. She never carries

> groceries or shopping bags or lift any boxes or reach

> for things stored over her head because, as she says,

> that's what men are for. And after a lifetime of not

> doing those things by choice, she can no longer do

> them even if she wanted to.

>

> She's quite a bit overweight and can no longer bend

> down to reach into the bottom of the cabinets. They

> bought a new refrigerator with the freezer on the

> bottom because that way she can reach the vegetable

> bins without bending over. Cooking is a problem because

> the pans are too heavy. She's having trouble getting

> up from a sitting position without help.

>

> They just came back from a nice little vacation. I

> noticed that she's not in about half the pictures.

> Turns out she couldn't do all that walking every day

> so sat out some of the tours but insisted that he go.

>

> I could go on but you get the idea. Don't get me

> wrong, she's a nice lady and I love her very much.

> But it frustrates me to no end that she thinks my

> working out is just not lady-like and that I should

> have her son carry my things for me.

>

> I used to hate squats until I realized that's the

> exercise that will enable me to get up off the

> toilet all by myself in 25 years (I'm 48.) Because

> when you need help with that, it's time to move to

> the old folk's home. There's a reason they call

> them " assisted living centers " now.

>

>

>

> " jones6936 " <jones6936@> asked:

> >

> > As i have aged, i have no motivation. what have you done to get

> > started and keep it going? Help me please.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Awesome! My cousin just came to visit. He¹s five years older than me.

Saturday morning he went for a 14 mile run, I road my bike 30 miles and his

daughter who is 22 went for an hour walk because she¹d hurt her knee and

couldn¹t run at the moment. It was great for the entire house to get up,

strap it on and go for an adventure!

> When I saw this, I smiled and had to respond. I too am motivated by

> my in-laws - but for the opposite reasons! My father-in-law is 83

> and started off his summer by rebuilding his entire front walk - on

> his own. He is a retired professor who bicycles to his lab almost

> daily and is still researching and publishing zoological studies.

> My mother-in-law celebrated her 80th birthday with a two week

> walking tour of China. She spent her 81st birthday doing 10K walks

> on consecutive days in NYC.

>

> And my parents? They have been gone for years, both lost to

> diseases caused by excess and overindulgence. They always made fun

> of people who were active and exercised and watched what they ate

> and drank. There are no guarantees but I can tell you my in-laws

> are enjoying their twilight years far more than my parents did while

> they were still alive - because my in-laws can walk and travel and

> enjoy their kids and grandkids and remain intellectually vigorous,

> in no small part because they have always exercised and eaten well

> and stayed involved in their community. If you feel good it will

> cascade into all parts of your life and the effects of that are far

> more long-lasting than the transient pleasure of a candy bar or some

> French fries or sleeping in when you could be getting some exercise

> somewhere.

>

> Lo

>

-

[Guest guest]

another great share!

thank you.

--

> >

> > I work out because I want to live.

> >

> > I get a big shot of motivation every time I have dinner

> > with my in-laws. While he is fairly active physically,

> > her idea of physical activity is swimming 4 nice slow

> > laps once a week and walking from the car (parked as

> > close as possible) to the door. She never carries

> > groceries or shopping bags or lift any boxes or reach

> > for things stored over her head because, as she says,

> > that's what men are for. And after a lifetime of not

> > doing those things by choice, she can no longer do

> > them even if she wanted to.

> >

> > She's quite a bit overweight and can no longer bend

> > down to reach into the bottom of the cabinets. They

> > bought a new refrigerator with the freezer on the

> > bottom because that way she can reach the vegetable

> > bins without bending over. Cooking is a problem because

> > the pans are too heavy. She's having trouble getting

> > up from a sitting position without help.

> >

> > They just came back from a nice little vacation. I

> > noticed that she's not in about half the pictures.

> > Turns out she couldn't do all that walking every day

> > so sat out some of the tours but insisted that he go.

> >

> > I could go on but you get the idea. Don't get me

> > wrong, she's a nice lady and I love her very much.

> > But it frustrates me to no end that she thinks my

> > working out is just not lady-like and that I should

> > have her son carry my things for me.

> >

> > I used to hate squats until I realized that's the

> > exercise that will enable me to get up off the

> > toilet all by myself in 25 years (I'm 48.) Because

> > when you need help with that, it's time to move to

> > the old folk's home. There's a reason they call

> > them " assisted living centers " now.

> >

> >

> >

> > " jones6936 " <jones6936@> asked:

> > >

> > > As i have aged, i have no motivation. what have you done to

get

> > > started and keep it going? Help me please.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> I used to hate squats until I realized that's the

> exercise that will enable me to get up off the

> toilet all by myself in 25 years (I'm 48.) Because

> when you need help with that, it's time to move to

> the old folk's home. There's a reason they call

> them " assisted living centers " now.

>

LOL, so funny, but so true, !!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/25/2006 12:34:23 PM US Mountain Standard Time, deadmed@... writes:

inject steroids into the spine; which is barbaric and damaging but it works great...temporarily.

I am not sure at all about describing epidural or transforaminal injections of steroids beign either barbaric or damaging. I have watched and participated in dozens of such treatments - and patients tolerate it will little pain. Especially when it is done with x-rays its a very exact safe procedure. There is the idea that corticosteroids might "damage' the bones - but the damage is less than inactivity. Most people can become more active with less pain after 1 to 3 of these injections, and the increased weight bearing activity strengthens bones. There are isolated cases of severe osteopenia following 1 to 3 injections of steroids, but that is very rare and the exception does not change the rule. As far as it being temporary - pretty much everything is temporary relief once a person has severe degenerative changes - so 6 months of relief after 3 visits is a pretty good result.

Anglen

[Guest guest]

No doubt Flemming is an adequate cutter. He has been treating a patient of mine on a work comp. emergency basis over the years with medicine’s idea of conservative care.

He is known in the medical field as one of the last orthos who will inject steroids into the spine; which is barbaric and damaging but it works great...temporarily.

Hate to bring out an old analogy but injecting steroids into the lumbar spine to decrease inflammation brought on by the body’s response to insult is like peeing in your pants to warm up your butt because your nociceptive fibers are telling you to go inside and get warm before you freeze to death or get frostbite.

( E. Abrahamson, D.C.)

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

From: Sharron Fuchs <sharronf@...>

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:09:01 -0700

" W. Pfeiffer " <drbob@...>, < >

Conversation: HELP

Subject: RE: HELP

Do you have a provider list that you can share ? Otherwise ,here are very few Orthopedists who do spinal surgery. One however, who is very good - did my friends thoracic to lumbar rodding - is Flemming 503-736-1201.

sharron fuchs dc

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of W. Pfeiffer

Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 6:15 PM

Subject: HELP

List Serve

Need a name or two of an orthopedist with good knowledge for treating

L5 spatulated TP,s with pseudo-arthroses with sacrum. Needs to be in Or

Health Systems preferred provider network.

Bob

W. Pfeiffer, DC,DABCO

P. O. Box 606

Pendleton, Or 97801

541.276.2550

drbob@... <mailto:drbob%40oregontrail.net>

[Guest guest]

Do you have a provider list that you can share ? Otherwise ,here are very few Orthopedists who do spinal surgery. One however, who is very good - did my friends thoracic to lumbar rodding - is Flemming 503-736-1201.

sharron fuchs dc

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of W. PfeifferSent: Monday, July 24, 2006 6:15 PM Subject: HELP

List ServeNeed a name or two of an orthopedist with good knowledge for treating L5 spatulated TP,s with pseudo-arthroses with sacrum. Needs to be in OrHealth Systems preferred provider network.Bob W. Pfeiffer, DC,DABCOP. O. Box 606Pendleton, Or 97801541.276.2550drboboregontrail (DOT) net

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/25/2006 1:24:03 PM US Mountain Standard Time, drscott@... writes:

They are not however, appropriate for comprehensive health care

A person may “tolerate†injections and respond well. The barbaric part is leading people to believe that this is comprehensive health care for a degenerative disc or a myriad of other conditions we see.

I would not say a steroid/lidocaine injection is "comprehensive". And I know the MD's and DO's I have seen that do would not call them comprehensive. the DO's adjust and recommend exercise and the MD refers to chiropractors and recommends exercise. In all honesty I have not seen chiropractic "cure" severe degenerative disease either - the patient needs to come back many times. So again I have to say if 3 injections of a light steroid provides 6 months of relief and increased activity - its a pretty good treatment. By the way, the MD thinks adjusting within 24 hours of an epidural is good "medicine".

Anglen

[Guest guest]

LOL NICE Analogy, i'll have to remember that one.

Dr. ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1627 NE Alberta St. #6Portland, OR 97211Ph: 503-788-6800c: 503-889-6204

RE: HELP Do you have a provider list that you can share ? Otherwise ,here are very few Orthopedists who do spinal surgery. One however, who is very good - did my friends thoracic to lumbar rodding - is Flemming 503-736-1201.sharron fuchs dc

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of W. PfeifferSent: Monday, July 24, 2006 6:15 PM Subject: HELPList ServeNeed a name or two of an orthopedist with good knowledge for treating L5 spatulated TP,s with pseudo-arthroses with sacrum. Needs to be in OrHealth Systems preferred provider network.Bob W. Pfeiffer, DC,DABCOP. O. Box 606Pendleton, Or 97801541.276.2550drbob@... <mailto:drbob%40oregontrail.net>

[Guest guest]

Dr. ,

Good answer from an allopathic “put the fire out” point of view.

Meaning no disrespect for firefighters or allopaths. When you need a fire put out in your appendix, eyeball, or toe who ya gonna call!??? Dr. Steroid!

They are not however, appropriate for comprehensive health care. Nothing against medical intelligence. It’s just not the direction of medical training.

A person may “tolerate” injections and respond well. The barbaric part is leading people to believe that this is comprehensive health care for a degenerative disc or a myriad of other conditions we see.

Lumbar disc disease protocols:

as needed :

Adjust the adjacent spine;

Adjust the sacroiliacs

Level the legs- Install orthotics if necessary;

Teach pelvic tilts;

Teach mirroring exercises and lumbar intrinsic toning;

Change the diet;

Clean out the colon;

Get aggravating meds under control (and they do exist- had a pt. taking 8 Ibubrofin per day in addition to other meds);

Terrify the patient about sitting and driving without breaks;

ART massage;

Flexion traction;

Axial decompression 200 visits paid in advance; HAHA

How many of the above were recommended by the esteemed Dr. Flemming, orthopedist to the stars?

I’ll give you a minute...

All?

8?

3?

You’re getting warmer!

Ding ding ding ding!

You win!

Oh. And he ended up having lumbar discectomy so there was obviously nothing conservative care could have done for him anyway.

( E. Abrahamson, D.C.)

Chiropractic physician

Lake Oswego Chiropractic Clinic

315 Second Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

503-635-6246

Website: http://www.lakeoswegochiro.com

From: <ANG320@...>

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:41:29 EDT

<deadmed@...>, <sharronf@...>, <drbob@...>, < >, <drscott@...>

Subject: Re: HELP

In a message dated 7/25/2006 12:34:23 PM US Mountain Standard Time, deadmed@... writes:

inject steroids into the spine; which is barbaric and damaging but it works great...temporarily.

I am not sure at all about describing epidural or transforaminal injections of steroids beign either barbaric or damaging. I have watched and participated in dozens of such treatments - and patients tolerate it will little pain. Especially when it is done with x-rays its a very exact safe procedure. There is the idea that corticosteroids might " damage' the bones - but the damage is less than inactivity. Most people can become more active with less pain after 1 to 3 of these injections, and the increased weight bearing activity strengthens bones. There are isolated cases of severe osteopenia following 1 to 3 injections of steroids, but that is very rare and the exception does not change the rule. As far as it being temporary - pretty much everything is temporary relief once a person has severe degenerative changes - so 6 months of relief after 3 visits is a pretty good result.

Anglen

[Guest guest]



They are extremely painful. The patients i have that have had them describe them as excrutiating, but helpful. They are no doubt a benefit for folks suffering from inoperable, severe -usually radicular- pain that cannot be ameliorated through conservative or other methods of care. However, continued use of a powerful steroid will have it's price to pay, so other avenues MUST be explored and utilized.

Dr. ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1627 NE Alberta St. #6Portland, OR 97211Ph: 503-788-6800c: 503-889-6204

Re: HELP

In a message dated 7/25/2006 1:24:03 PM US Mountain Standard Time, drscott@... writes:

They are not however, appropriate for comprehensive health careA person may “tolerate†injections and respond well. The barbaric part is leading people to believe that this is comprehensive health care for a degenerative disc or a myriad of other conditions we see.I would not say a steroid/lidocaine injection is "comprehensive". And I know the MD's and DO's I have seen that do would not call them comprehensive. the DO's adjust and recommend exercise and the MD refers to chiropractors and recommends exercise. In all honesty I have not seen chiropractic "cure" severe degenerative disease either - the patient needs to come back many times. So again I have to say if 3 injections of a light steroid provides 6 months of relief and increased activity - its a pretty good treatment. By the way, the MD thinks adjusting within 24 hours of an epidural is good "medicine". Anglen

[Guest guest]

And what, pray tell, is being done to ameloriate the demineralization of the surrounding bone? I've seen as much as 25 - 30% decrease can be on x-ray within 3 weeks.

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

From: "deadmed" <deadmed@...><ANG320@...>,<drscott@...>,<sharronf@...>,<drbob@...>,< >Subject: Re: HELPDate: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 07:49:52 -0700

They are extremely painful. The patients i have that have had them describe them as excrutiating, but helpful. They are no doubt a benefit for folks suffering from inoperable, severe -usually radicular- pain that cannot be ameliorated through conservative or other methods of care. However, continued use of a powerful steroid will have it's price to pay, so other avenues MUST be explored and utilized.

Dr. ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1627 NE Alberta St. #6Portland, OR 97211Ph: 503-788-6800c: 503-889-6204

Re: HELP

In a message dated 7/25/2006 1:24:03 PM US Mountain Standard Time, drscott@... writes:

They are not however, appropriate for comprehensive health careA person may “tolerate†injections and respond well. The barbaric part is leading people to believe that this is comprehensive health care for a degenerative disc or a myriad of other conditions we see.I would not say a steroid/lidocaine injection is "comprehensive". And I know the MD's and DO's I have seen that do would not call them comprehensive. the DO's adjust and recommend exercise and the MD refers to chiropractors and recommends exercise. In all honesty I have not seen chiropractic "cure" severe degenerative disease either - the patient needs to come back many times. So again I have to say if 3 injections of a light steroid provides 6 months of relief and increased activity - its a pretty good treatment. By the way, the MD thinks adjusting within 24 hours of an epidural is good "medicine". Anglen Call friends with PC calling -- FREE

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/26/2006 7:51:14 AM US Mountain Standard Time, deadmed@... writes:

They are extremely painful. The patients i have that have had them describe them as excrutiating,

Have you ever personally seen them done?

Anglen