Help

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/26/2006 8:03:00 AM US Mountain Standard Time, skrndc1@... writes:

And what, pray tell, is being done to ameloriate the demineralization of the surrounding bone? I've seen as much as 25 - 30% decrease can be on x-ray within 3 weeks.

Its my understanding that x-ray is a poor way to determine bone density. A slight change in KVP or MA will alter the opacity of bone on x-ray and therefore sequential x-rays are essentially useless in determing bone density/ bone mass changes. Are you talking about DEXA? I did not know anyone would do those 3 weeks apart.

Inactivity is also deleterious to bone mineralization, as well the reduced activity that comes with the condition ruins quality of life. As one study points out with inactivity "Skeletal muscle fiber size, diameter, and capillarity are reduced, as is bone density." (link : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=AbstractPlus & list_uids=10230879 & query_hl=3 & itool=pubmed_docsum ).

The effects of inactivity are long term : "Significant decrements in bone mineral density of the lumbar spine, femoral neck, and calcaneus observed in able-bodied men after bed rest are not fully reversed after 6 months of normal weightbearing activity. Importantly, the lost bone mass is not regained for some weeks or months after muscle mass and strength have returned to normal, further contributing to the risk of fracture." link : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus & db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=abstractplus & list_uids=9044223

So again, a few epidurals combined with some adjustments and exercise seem much more beneficial than letting a patient continue in pain for several weeks with conservative treatment alone - not to mention missing out on life since they cannot go do things they enjoy. So to answer your question - weight bearing motion, exercise and activity are what's being done to ameliorate the demineralization of bone - in fact the only things that can be done safely and successfully - if they spend 2-4 weeks relatively inactive recovering from severe pain using just conservative treatment, they may need to be on medications for bone density afterwards.

Anglen

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/26/2006 2:57:31 PM US Mountain Standard Time, skrndc1@... writes:

the last example of this I saw was about 6 years ago: a shoulder accident after a fall from a horse. The lady didn't know about chiropracatic at that time, had the films to show no fracture, had the shots, no change, re-xrayed 3 weeks later with a very definite decrease in mineralization....not measurable but visually even the md agreed with the 30% guesstimate.

6 years ago is a long time. No telling what was really in the injection - epidurals are pretty standardized and low dose steroids. I am dubious that "even an MD" can accurately determine percentage of bone loss from a plain film radiograph. I also wonder how much of any real demineralization might have been from inactivity of her shoulder - as per our previous discussion.

Anglen

[Guest guest]

the last example of this I saw was about 6 years ago: a shoulder accident after a fall from a horse. The lady didn't know about chiropracatic at that time, had the films to show no fracture, had the shots, no change, re-xrayed 3 weeks later with a very definite decrease in mineralization....not measurable but visually even the md agreed with the 30% guesstimate. The pateint was mad as hell.....was told there 'was nothing else that could be done'. she continued to have pain til stumbling across me about 2 years later.

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

From: ang320@...To: skrndc1@..., deadmed@..., drscott@..., sharronf@..., drbob@..., Subject: Re: HELPDate: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 15:38:10 EDTIn a message dated 7/26/2006 8:03:00 AM US Mountain Standard Time, skrndc1@... writes:

And what, pray tell, is being done to ameloriate the demineralization of the surrounding bone? I've seen as much as 25 - 30% decrease can be on x-ray within 3 weeks. Its my understanding that x-ray is a poor way to determine bone density. A slight change in KVP or MA will alter the opacity of bone on x-ray and therefore sequential x-rays are essentially useless in determing bone density/ bone mass changes. Are you talking about DEXA? I did not know anyone would do those 3 weeks apart.Inactivity is also deleterious to bone mineralization, as well the reduced activity that comes with the condition ruins quality of life. As one study points out with inactivity "Skeletal muscle fiber size, diameter, and capillarity are reduced, as is bone density." (link : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=AbstractPlus & list_uids=10230879 & query_hl=3 & itool=pubmed_docsum ).The effects of inactivity are long term : "Significant decrements in bone mineral density of the lumbar spine, femoral neck, and calcaneus observed in able-bodied men after bed rest are not fully reversed after 6 months of normal weightbearing activity. Importantly, the lost bone mass is not regained for some weeks or months after muscle mass and strength have returned to normal, further contributing to the risk of fracture." link : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus & db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=abstractplus & list_uids=9044223So again, a few epidurals combined with some adjustments and exercise seem much more beneficial than letting a patient continue in pain for several weeks with conservative treatment alone - not to mention missing out on life since they cannot go do things they enjoy. So to answer your question - weight bearing motion, exercise and activity are what's being done to ameliorate the demineralization of bone - in fact the only things that can be done safely and successfully - if they spend 2-4 weeks relatively inactive recovering from severe pain using just conservative treatment, they may need to be on medications for bone density afterwards. Anglen Play FOX Fantasy Football with MSN: Live scoring, fully customizable completely free

[Guest guest]

HELP - I didn't like the "new" look of our listserve pages before, but now the advercrap is impinging on Sunny's replies.....is there some way of getting the sidebar removed or relegated to the bottom of the page where it used to be?

Rod , DC

Re: HELP

the last example of this I saw was about 6 years ago: a shoulder accident after a fall from a horse. The lady didn't know about chiropracatic at that time, had the films to show no fracture, had the shots, no change, re-xrayed 3 weeks later with a very definite decrease in mineralization....not measurable but visually even the md agreed with the 30% guesstimate. The pateint was mad as hell.....was told there 'was nothing else that could be done'. she continued to have pain til stumbling across me about 2 years later.

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

From: ang320@...To: skrndc1msn, deadmednetzero (DOT) net, drscottlakeoswegochiro, sharronftdcinjurylaw, drboboregontrail (DOT) net, Subject: Re: HELPDate: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 15:38:10 EDTIn a message dated 7/26/2006 8:03:00 AM US Mountain Standard Time, skrndc1msn writes:

And what, pray tell, is being done to ameloriate the demineralization of the surrounding bone? I've seen as much as 25 - 30% decrease can be on x-ray within 3 weeks. Its my understanding that x-ray is a poor way to determine bone density. A slight change in KVP or MA will alter the opacity of bone on x-ray and therefore sequential x-rays are essentially useless in determing bone density/ bone mass changes. Are you talking about DEXA? I did not know anyone would do those 3 weeks apart.Inactivity is also deleterious to bone mineralization, as well the reduced activity that comes with the condition ruins quality of life. As one study points out with inactivity "Skeletal muscle fiber size, diameter, and capillarity are reduced, as is bone density." (link : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=AbstractPlus & list_uids=10230879 & query_hl=3 & itool=pubmed_docsum ).The effects of inactivity are long term : "Significant decrements in bone mineral density of the lumbar spine, femoral neck, and calcaneus observed in able-bodied men after bed rest are not fully reversed after 6 months of normal weightbearing activity. Importantly, the lost bone mass is not regained for some weeks or months after muscle mass and strength have returned to normal, further contributing to the risk of fracture." link : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus & db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=abstractplus & list_uids=9044223So again, a few epidurals combined with some adjustments and exercise seem much more beneficial than letting a patient continue in pain for several weeks with conservative treatment alone - not to mention missing out on life since they cannot go do things they enjoy. So to answer your question - weight bearing motion, exercise and activity are what's being done to ameliorate the demineralization of bone - in fact the only things that can be done safely and successfully - if they spend 2-4 weeks relatively inactive recovering from severe pain using just conservative treatment, they may need to be on medications for bone density afterwards. Anglen

Play FOX Fantasy Football with MSN: Live scoring, fully customizable completely free

[Guest guest]

My experience participating in dozens of epidurals, maybe hundreds, has been positive. The MD (chronic pain doc) almost always refers to a DC or PT in conjunction - depending on the patients wants etc. The DO I know who does it also does PM & R - so she prescribes exercise and adjust. I think it is good chiropractic to have a good chronic pain/PM & R doctor to work with and receive referrals from - combo of epidural (or trigger point injection), chiropractic and exercise really can get a person back into full activity quickly. If one MD is not great to work with find another - there are many of them. The MD I mention has a good network of several DC's and one PT who work together and refer patients as needed to each other. Its worth visiting a few MD's and finding one - chiro works most of the time as a stand alone, but it never hurts to have someone to combine treatments with in the case of recalcitrant chronic pain.

Anglen

In a message dated 7/26/2006 6:14:15 PM US Mountain Standard Time, tdstecher@... writes:

Bone density is hard to quantify on radiographs but sometimes you can see spotty or band like osteopenic/lucent changes on the films which are consistent with bone loss. I know this definately can happen with disuse. Like falling off a horse and not using the injured arm/shoulder much. Bone loss can be demonstrated on x-ray after disuse of only 10-14 days.

In Sunny's case the supposed bone loss may have been due to disuse instead of any corticosteroid injection.

--

D. Stecher, DC,DACBR,CCSP

Beaverton, OR

www.xraydoctors.com

(503)380-5333

-------------- Original message ----------------------

From: ang320@...

>In a message dated 7/26/2006 2:57:31 PM US Mountain Standard Time,

>skrndc1@... writes:

>

>>the last example of this I saw was about 6 years ago: a shoulder accident

>>after a fall from a horse. The lady didn't know about chiropracatic at that

>>time, had the films to show no fracture, had the shots, no change, re-xrayed 3

>>weeks later with a very definite decrease in mineralization....not

>>measurable but visually even the md agreed with the 30% guesstimate.

>

>6 years ago is a long time. No telling what was really in the injection -

>epidurals are pretty standardized and low dose steroids. I am dubious that "even

>an MD" can accurately determine percentage of bone loss from a plain film

>radiograph. I also wonder how much of any real demineralization might have

>been

>from inactivity of her shoulder - as per our previous discussion.

>

> Anglen

[Guest guest]

Bone density is hard to quantify on radiographs but sometimes you can see spotty

or band like osteopenic/lucent changes on the films which are consistent with

bone loss. I know this definately can happen with disuse. Like falling off a

horse and not using the injured arm/shoulder much. Bone loss can be

demonstrated on x-ray after disuse of only 10-14 days.

In Sunny's case the supposed bone loss may have been due to disuse instead of

any corticosteroid injection.

--

D. Stecher, DC,DACBR,CCSP

Beaverton, OR

www.xraydoctors.com

(503)380-5333

-------------- Original message ----------------------

From: ang320@...

> In a message dated 7/26/2006 2:57:31 PM US Mountain Standard Time,

> skrndc1@... writes:

>

> > the last example of this I saw was about 6 years ago: a shoulder accident

> > after a fall from a horse. The lady didn't know about chiropracatic at that

> > time, had the films to show no fracture, had the shots, no change, re-xrayed

3

> > weeks later with a very definite decrease in mineralization....not

> > measurable but visually even the md agreed with the 30% guesstimate.

>

> 6 years ago is a long time. No telling what was really in the injection -

> epidurals are pretty standardized and low dose steroids. I am dubious that

" even

> an MD " can accurately determine percentage of bone loss from a plain film

> radiograph. I also wonder how much of any real demineralization might have

> been

> from inactivity of her shoulder - as per our previous discussion.

>

> Anglen

In a message dated 7/26/2006 2:57:31 PM US Mountain Standard Time, skrndc1msn writes:

the last example of this I saw was about 6 years ago: a shoulder accident after a fall from a horse. The lady didn't know about chiropracatic at that time, had the films to show no fracture, had the shots, no change, re-xrayed 3 weeks later with a very definite decrease in mineralization....not measurable but visually even the md agreed with the 30% guesstimate.

6 years ago is a long time. No telling what was really in the injection - epidurals are pretty standardized and low dose steroids. I am dubious that "even an MD" can accurately determine percentage of bone loss from a plain film radiograph. I also wonder how much of any real demineralization might have been from inactivity of her shoulder - as per our previous discussion.

Anglen

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/27/2006 10:51:28 AM US Mountain Standard Time, deadmed@... writes:

I've had a lumbar puncture done when i was in my early twenties. Although this was to withdraw fluid the painful portion was the needle puncturing my inner core.

Now, i have not seen a cervical epidural performed personally, but do i need to in order to sympathize with these folks. Is this something you would recommend on a daily basis for chronic pain for instance? The side affects of prolonged use are heavy and from personal and patient's experience they are excrutiating.

A lumbar puncture is different from epidural injections (because of penetrating the dura - epidurals do not penetrate the dura), and even moreso than a transforaminal injection. Having personally been a part of perhaps 300 or so epidurals and transforaminals at Dr. Otto Uhriks office, there are a few that find it very painful but most have very minimal pain, and even feel 70% or more pain reduction upon getting off of the table (mostly from the lidocaine). your personal experience with lumbar puncture of the dura to retrieve CSF, and the few people you know that have had it done is not enough to form a broad opinion of the technique - any more than a MD that has had one adjustment or knows 2 or 3 people who have had an adjustment is capable of giving an opinion on Chiropractic. Dr.Uhrik did not focus just on epidurals , usually doing only 10 or so a day (colleagues often did 30 or more a day), and gave more attention to acupuncture, physical therapy and chiropractic. I rotated with him for something like 6 weeks - but still participated in a fair number of them. Some had complete relief after one treatment (one patient was a chiropractor), some had no relief after 3 - most had decent releif that lasted a substantial time.

I would recommend calling a pain doctor who uses a C-arm to locate the needle (not just blind insertion or loss of resistence technique), going to watch him perform 20 or 30 of them and then form an opinion. Tell him you are interested in possibly having someone to refer patients to who are unresponsive to Chiropractic or maybe would benefit from a combination of treatments - I think most MD's would welcome you as a colleague. Maybe your opinion would be the same afterwards - but I doubt it. I think you will find that the vast majority experience little discomfort - some really do experience pain (ex. if the dura is punctured by mistake) and might need a blood patch or something, others are a bit histrionic and like drama - but most lay down, have the procedure done with just a few seconds of discomfort, get up and head home.

You ask " Is this something you would recommend on a daily basis for chronic pain for instance? The side affects of prolonged use are heavy". Nobody recommends them on a daily basis. They have a strict protocol with no more than 3 in a series being done. Most patients have a marked reduction in pain with 1 to 3 injections, and the results usually last for a decent period of time. Combined with some chiropractic adjustments and exercise and they can be of significant value to a patient.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/27/2006 1:48:51 PM US Mountain Standard Time, deadmed@... writes:

Pain is always subjective, but i challenge you to take a needle in the back and then report back to us with your findings

I have taken a needle to the back before with almost no pain. It was an acupuncture needle All needles are not the same - an epidural is in reality a far cry from a lumbar puncture such as you describe.

[Guest guest]

Yes,

I've had a lumbar puncture done when i was in my early twenties. It ranked up there with the most unpleasant experiences I've ever been through. I gripped the nurses hands with all my might. There is a natural phenomenon that takes place in the body similar to a flight and fight response. In my opinion the body is well aware of the fact that a needle has NO place being there. Although this was to withdraw fluid the painful portion was the needle puncturing my inner core. Now for a cervical epidural i'm sure the needle is smaller, but the area is more sensitive as well.

Now, i have not seen a cervical epidural performed personally, but do i need to in order to sympathize with these folks. Is this something you would recommend on a daily basis for chronic pain for instance? The side affects of prolonged use are heavy and from personal and patient's experience they are excrutiating. But, maybe we are just wimps. They can be helpful for pain relief, but not to be relied on for continued useage. Even the medics limit the number one can have I believe.

Dr. ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1627 NE Alberta St. #6Portland, OR 97211Ph: 503-788-6800c: 503-889-6204

Re: HELP

In a message dated 7/26/2006 7:51:14 AM US Mountain Standard Time, deadmed@... writes:

They are extremely painful. The patients i have that have had them describe them as excrutiating,Have you ever personally seen them done? Anglen

[Guest guest]

Lindsy, . Pain is always subjective, but i challenge you to take a needle in the back and then report back to us with your findings Believe me, you will experience pain, now if you enjoy pain that could be entirely different. I have never questioned the ability of the epidural to provide pain relief. It's a matter of the long term which is in question. What you say here is the point of the matter and discussion:

You ask " Is this something you would recommend on a daily basis for chronic pain for instance? The side affects of prolonged use are heavy". Nobody recommends them on a daily basis. They have a strict protocol with no more than 3 in a series being done. Most patients have a marked reduction in pain with 1 to 3 injections, and the results usually last for a decent period of time. Combined with some chiropractic adjustments and exercise and they can be of significant value to a patient.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 23/08/2006 12:53:10 GMT Daylight Time, tryfonas@... writes:

We had a bout of Ice cream eating for 3 days not in quantity but dfinatly a new thing in the diet, plus 3 fizzy drinks over 3 days. RESULT....after7 days i have a wild child, screaming and crying, hitting himself and not very balanced at all.

>>>well at least you now have proof of why he shouldn;t have these things. His glutamate levels will be high, you could have yeast going on, reaction to casein, colours, artficials, aspartame oh myyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

Do you have some activated charcoal? That might help, otherwise ifg it was me I would probably treat for yeast and keep my fingers crossed.

What gut bug protocol do you have in place already?

Hang in there

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

We have had a fizzy lemonade problem going on the last few days, husband has lemonade in the house and school holidays, anyway screaming heebiejeebies lasted about 3-4 days.

My son cannot tolerate cirtus fruits anyway so add in the Aspartame and phenylanine and all hell breaks loose.

I do find Epsom Salts and/or magnesium help to calm him, but mostly it's a waiting game for us till it's out of his system.

Vicky

[Guest guest]

On 8/23/06, chriso <tryfonas@...> wrote:

Hi all, i am worried sick and dont know in what direction to go. We have been stable for the past 3 months with Cal mag, CLO, nuthera, and a few remedies DR Jeff suggested from the US. We had a bout of Ice cream eating for 3 days not in quantity but dfinatly a new thing in the diet, plus 3 fizzy drinks over 3 days. RESULT....after7 days i have a wild child, screaming and crying, hitting himself and not very balanced at all. Could it be a yeast problem

YES

as Ice cream and 7UP is not a norm for us. Also he is hitting his belly as he cannot say about pain i wonder could he be in Pain?

YES , probably

By the time i sent a stool sample to be checked maybe i should just do a fungal therapy to not waste time?

Worth A try, although allergy and peptide effects are also possible mechanisms.

Any advice i will be grateful.

kind regards Chriso [Cyprus]

Also try Singulair granulate.

Geir Flatabø

[Guest guest]

Hi chriso,

Sounds like it could be fungal, lots of sugar in the things you

mentioned, why not just start your fungal therapy and see if you get

improvements (might get die-off first) ?

Also, what are your childs bowels like? Does he suffer from

constipation/impaction? Milk (in ice cream?) and yeast are both

constipating. Maybe, possibly he is suffering an acute bout of

constipation, which can be very painful and would explain why he is

hitting his belly. Will he let you feel his tummy, you could try

feeling it to see if you get any reaction from him re: pain. You may

need to take him to a Doc to have this checked out.

Hth, let us know how you get on, Nikki

>

> Hi all, i am worried sick and dont know in what direction to go.

We have been stable for the past 3 months with Cal mag, CLO,

nuthera, and a few remedies DR Jeff suggested from the US. We had

a bout of Ice cream eating for 3 days not in quantity but dfinatly a

new thing in the diet, plus 3 fizzy drinks over 3 days.

RESULT....after7 days i have a wild child, screaming and crying,

hitting himself and not very balanced at all. Could it be a yeast

problem as Ice cream and 7UP is not a norm for us. Also he is

hitting his belly as he cannot say about pain i wonder could he be

in Pain?

> By the time i sent a stool sample to be checked maybe i should

just do a fungal therapy to not waste time?Any advice i will be

grateful.

> kind regards Chriso [Cyprus]

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry to hear your probs. I don't usually give advice cos I don't

think I know enough, but maybe epsom salt baths would help with PST

and they do tend to have calming effects for some kids.

Also, if you are upping the probios you may get away with giving

some extra magnesium - also calming and would help in case any probs

with constipation?

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong anyone!!

Jacqui

>

>

> In a message dated 23/08/2006 12:53:10 GMT Daylight Time,

> tryfonas@... writes:

>

> We had a bout of Ice cream eating for 3 days not in quantity but

dfinatly a

> new thing in the diet, plus 3 fizzy drinks over 3 days.

RESULT....after7 days

> i have a wild child, screaming and crying, hitting himself and

not very

> balanced at all.

>

>

> >>>well at least you now have proof of why he shouldn;t have

these things.

> His glutamate levels will be high, you could have yeast going on,

reaction to

> casein, colours, artficials, aspartame oh myyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

>

> Do you have some activated charcoal? That might help, otherwise

ifg it was

> me I would probably treat for yeast and keep my fingers crossed.

>

> What gut bug protocol do you have in place already?

>

> Hang in there

>

> Mandi x

>

[Guest guest]

I am sorry this is happening but sure it will pass. Fizzy drinks just

take some children up to the ceiling. If I gave my son Tom a can of

coke he would high as a kite for half a day. Hopefully if you keep

these high doses of sugar out of the diet for a day or so things will

calm down. Maybe up your yeast protocol in case it's feasted on all

that sugar - but in your shoes, I'd just keep to plain water and non

sugar, food plus only complex carbohydrates to help regulate things.

HTH

Steph

>

> Hi all, i am worried sick and dont know in what direction to go. We

have been stable for the past 3 months with Cal mag, CLO, nuthera,

and a few remedies DR Jeff suggested from the US. We had a bout of

Ice cream eating for 3 days not in quantity but dfinatly a new thing

in the diet, plus 3 fizzy drinks over 3 days. RESULT....after7 days i

have a wild child, screaming and crying, hitting himself and not very

balanced at all. Could it be a yeast problem as Ice cream and 7UP

is not a norm for us. Also he is hitting his belly as he cannot say

about pain i wonder could he be in Pain?

> By the time i sent a stool sample to be checked maybe i should just

do a fungal therapy to not waste time?Any advice i will be grateful.

> kind regards Chriso [Cyprus]

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Chriso

I was sorry to here about your problems and also didnt like to advise cos I dont know such a lot about yeast and actually dont spot it in very easily in amongst all the other shouting, screming etc!!

However one thing I noticed maybe Nikki said to you that I thought I should add to... Impaction again, sorry folks here I go. Kids with autism as we all know often have problematic bowels, diarrhoea, constipation etc. When x-rayed the majority have bowels which are overloaded if not impacted. Have you had a bowel x-ray on your son, if not please try to get one. If this is impossible I would maybe just clear them out anyways. Now I am not a medic and this is not medical advice but having discovered Oxypowder recently (You can get it form Mandi or on Ebay or at Oxypowder.com) I love this product and probably would be good for most of us. When faecal material sticks to our intestinal wall we dont absorb nutrients as effectively, oxypowder works by dissolving this matter away. If your sons belly is distended which it sounds like it is this might be worth a go.

Please remember these 2 things. My child was seriously impacted at 4 years old:-

1) A doctor can rarely feel this from the outside as the stool is often soft and they are generally looking for hard rocks!! All the times has been bunged not once on physical examination has this been noted, only by x-ray and has always required hospital/paediatrician help to sort out....

2) Even if a child is impacted they can have normal looking stools every day. This is not an indicator everything is OK.

About yeast we have been using Candigest again recently and its working brillinatly, never really tolerated this very well previously but as thisd was in the days when she did not tolerate anything it probably was not the Candigest itself that was the problem!! Her stools look better than they have for years the last 2 weeks on this. However we are doing lots of stuff so maybe not just that...

Calmag, if he has done this ok for years, and now you have diarrhoea with it:-

1) Maybe he is imapcted and what you are seeing is soft stool (overflow) which has to bypass the partially blocked area...

2) Maybe try these products separately for a while, if somehting is going on in the gut maybe its just not having the same effect as before, more absorbale forms of Calcium and Magnesium like the Ionic ones from Metabolics might be worth a go for a while. Then when things settle down its easier to increase Magnesium if he is too constipated or vice versa.

I know how hard this is its never simple, keep a diary for a while, tighten up that diet, try enzymes if you dont already... Things change all the time and its hard for us parents. I guess its also really hot there right now, maybe that effects him too more if he is a little bit out of sorts.

Good Luck with it all, we are thinking of you and will help however we can! Send my regards to (your ABA lady) has she had her baby yet?

Love and Best Wishes

Caroline

xxx

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 24/08/2006 05:40:21 GMT Daylight Time, tryfonas@... writes:

an ice cream now and then didnt effect us and the goat cheese that he may have also[ not cows milk] but the ice cream plus fizzy drinks just created too much of a sugar intake problem. Definatly shall not happen again i promise. As i wrote before a Dr checked tummy out and just found lots of air in the intestines. Shall i go nystatin, sporal like i used3 years ago or fluconazol?

My hubby gave me beneflora granules to dissolve 2 tsp in juice tomorrow . What do u think?

>>>Gut bugs can cause the air - yeast ferments, poor lad, sounds like some yeast busting may help him and maybe a good clear out with Oxypowder, I get the gas/spasm thing with yeast and it zapped mine pronto. If you have any activated charcoal that is supposed to help with the gas. I always forget about it when I could try it for that so haven;t done so yet.

Sam has had way too much sugar past 3 weeks also, just got him back to a happy place, it happens to us all at some point

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

hi , thanks for all replies, i have a brief update. Last night 2 family Dr s checkedd him out feeling the belly and tummy . All was fine except the intestines seem like they have alot of air in side as they were making noises. The Dr was able to push and squeeze as they do with no pain or crying. We checked him once when he was calm and once when he began the shouting and nervousness. There may be a little spasm type feeling in the intestine or too much air.. We brought him home last night we had another incidence and he went to sleep late . He slept undisturbed till morning as normal.

As for the stools, he has always the past 2 to 3 years had very firm stools but when i give higher doses of Calmag[ calcium and magnesium] the stools are very looser.

Kind regards

Chriso

Re: help

Hi chriso,Sounds like it could be fungal, lots of sugar in the things you mentioned, why not just start your fungal therapy and see if you get improvements (might get die-off first) ?Also, what are your childs bowels like? Does he suffer from constipation/impaction? Milk (in ice cream?) and yeast are both constipating. Maybe, possibly he is suffering an acute bout of constipation, which can be very painful and would explain why he is hitting his belly. Will he let you feel his tummy, you could try feeling it to see if you get any reaction from him re: pain. You may need to take him to a Doc to have this checked out.Hth, let us know how you get on, Nikki>> Hi all, i am worried sick and dont know in what direction to go. We have been stable for the past 3 months with Cal mag, CLO, nuthera, and a few remedies DR Jeff suggested from the US. We had a bout of Ice cream eating for 3 days not in quantity but dfinatly a new thing in the diet, plus 3 fizzy drinks over 3 days. RESULT....after7 days i have a wild child, screaming and crying, hitting himself and not very balanced at all. Could it be a yeast problem as Ice cream and 7UP is not a norm for us. Also he is hitting his belly as he cannot say about pain i wonder could he be in Pain?> By the time i sent a stool sample to be checked maybe i should just do a fungal therapy to not waste time?Any advice i will be grateful.> kind regards Chriso [Cyprus]>

[Guest guest]

thanks

Re: help

Sorry to hear your probs. I don't usually give advice cos I don't think I know enough, but maybe epsom salt baths would help with PST and they do tend to have calming effects for some kids.Also, if you are upping the probios you may get away with giving some extra magnesium - also calming and would help in case any probs with constipation?Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong anyone!!Jacqui>> > In a message dated 23/08/2006 12:53:10 GMT Daylight Time, > tryfonas@... writes:> > We had a bout of Ice cream eating for 3 days not in quantity but dfinatly a > new thing in the diet, plus 3 fizzy drinks over 3 days. RESULT....after7 days > i have a wild child, screaming and crying, hitting himself and not very > balanced at all. > > > >>>well at least you now have proof of why he shouldn;t have these things. > His glutamate levels will be high, you could have yeast going on, reaction to > casein, colours, artficials, aspartame oh myyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.> > Do you have some activated charcoal? That might help, otherwise ifg it was > me I would probably treat for yeast and keep my fingers crossed.> > What gut bug protocol do you have in place already?> > Hang in there> > Mandi x>

[Guest guest]



Thank you

Re: help

On 8/23/06, chriso <tryfonascytanet.cy> wrote:

Hi all, i am worried sick and dont know in what direction to go. We have been stable for the past 3 months with Cal mag, CLO, nuthera, and a few remedies DR Jeff suggested from the US. We had a bout of Ice cream eating for 3 days not in quantity but dfinatly a new thing in the diet, plus 3 fizzy drinks over 3 days. RESULT....after7 days i have a wild child, screaming and crying, hitting himself and not very balanced at all. Could it be a yeast problem

YES

as Ice cream and 7UP is not a norm for us. Also he is hitting his belly as he cannot say about pain i wonder could he be in Pain?

YES , probably

By the time i sent a stool sample to be checked maybe i should just do a fungal therapy to not waste time?

Worth A try, although allergy and peptide effects are also possible mechanisms.

Any advice i will be grateful.

kind regards Chriso [Cyprus]

Also try Singulair granulate.

Geir Flatabø

[Guest guest]

an ice cream now and then didnt effect us and the goat cheese that he may have also[ not cows milk] but the ice cream plus fizzy drinks just created too much of a sugar intake problem. Definatly shall not happen again i promise. As i wrote before a Dr checked tummy out and just found lots of air in the intestines. Shall i go nystatin, sporal like i used3 years ago or fluconazol?

My hubby gave me beneflora granules to dissolve 2 tsp in juice tomorrow . What do u think?

thanks again Chriso

Re: help

In a message dated 23/08/2006 12:53:10 GMT Daylight Time, tryfonascytanet.cy writes:

We had a bout of Ice cream eating for 3 days not in quantity but dfinatly a new thing in the diet, plus 3 fizzy drinks over 3 days. RESULT....after7 days i have a wild child, screaming and crying, hitting himself and not very balanced at all.

>>>well at least you now have proof of why he shouldn;t have these things. His glutamate levels will be high, you could have yeast going on, reaction to casein, colours, artficials, aspartame oh myyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

Do you have some activated charcoal? That might help, otherwise ifg it was me I would probably treat for yeast and keep my fingers crossed.

What gut bug protocol do you have in place already?

Hang in there

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I'm praying for you sweetie but haven't heard of this one. If Helen is around she will post a link, otherwise google it and see what happens. Let us know too.

love,

I am sick with something called morgellons disease. I need prayers and information. I have read alot but I am worried my children will get this awful disease. Can anyone help me?Thank you

[Guest guest]

i always go to this site to help me with anything I get dx

http://arthritis.about.com/b/a/257370.htm?terms=morgellons+disease

wish i could help more

I am sick with something called morgellons disease. I need prayers and information. I have read alot but I am worried my children will get this awful disease. Can anyone help me?Thank you

[Guest guest]

Thank you ...God bless you

-------------- Original message -------------- From: " M" <brenda.morey@...>

Hi,

I'm praying for you sweetie but haven't heard of this one. If Helen is around she will post a link, otherwise google it and see what happens. Let us know too.

love,

I am sick with something called morgellons disease. I need prayers and information. I have read alot but I am worried my children will get this awful disease. Can anyone help me?Thank you