Guest guest Posted June 25, 2002 Report Share Posted June 25, 2002 Hi all, having a disagreement on the mech of action of H2S when it kills you! Any thoughts Cheers Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2002 Report Share Posted June 25, 2002 EXTRACT FROM: http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/GDWQ/Chemicals/hydrsulfidefull.ht m#humans ...When inhaled, hydrogen sulfide is highly acutely toxic to humans (25). Its rapid mode of action involves the formation of a complex with the iron(III) ion of the mitochondrial metalloenzyme cytochrome oxidase, thereby blocking oxidative metabolism (4,25). Other enzymes reported to be inhibited by sulfides are succinate dehydrogenase, adenosinetriphosphatase, DOPA oxidase, carbonic anhydrase, dipeptidase, benzamidase, and some enzymes containing iron such as catalase and peroxidases (1). Reduction of disulfide bridges in proteins has been suggested as a mechanism whereby enzyme function could be altered (3). Irritation of the eyes and respiratory tract can be observed at concentrations of 15-30 mg/m3, and concentrations of 700-1400 mg/m3 can cause unconciousness and respiratory paralysis resulting in death (3). Nigel -----Original Message----- From: tom5255 [mailto:tom5255@...] Hi all, having a disagreement on the mech of action of H2S when it kills you! Any thoughts Cheers Tom Member Information: List owner: Ian Sharpe Owner@... Editor: Ross Boardman Editor@... Post message: egroups Subscribe: -subscribeegroups Unsubscribe: -unsubscribeegroups Thank you for supporting Remote Medics Online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2002 Report Share Posted June 25, 2002 Hi Tom, it is a long time since I worked in a refinery, but if I remember correctly; H2S is a colourless gas, with a smell of rotten aggs at low concentrations. It has an affinity for water, dissolving in the fluid of the upper airways to cause intense burning and irritation. It also causes lacrimation, photophobia. In high concentrations (you can't smell it - which is why it is so dangerous.) At this level it causes paralysis of the respiratory centre......... OwenD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2002 Report Share Posted June 25, 2002 Wow, a bit more complex explanation than mine... OwenD > EXTRACT FROM: > > http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/GDWQ/Chemicals/hydrsulfidefull.ht > m#humans > > > ..When inhaled, hydrogen sulfide is highly acutely toxic to humans (25). Its > rapid mode of action involves the formation of a complex with the iron(III) > ion of the mitochondrial metalloenzyme cytochrome oxidase, thereby blocking > oxidative metabolism (4,25). Other enzymes reported to be inhibited by > sulfides are succinate dehydrogenase, adenosinetriphosphatase, DOPA oxidase, > carbonic anhydrase, dipeptidase, benzamidase, and some enzymes containing > iron such as catalase and peroxidases (1). Reduction of disulfide bridges in > proteins has been suggested as a mechanism whereby enzyme function could be > altered (3). Irritation of the eyes and respiratory tract can be observed at > concentrations of 15-30 mg/m3, and concentrations of 700-1400 mg/m3 can > cause unconciousness and respiratory paralysis resulting in death (3). > > Nigel > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tom5255 [mailto:tom5255@...] > > Hi all, > having a disagreement on the mech of action of H2S when it kills you! > Any thoughts > > Cheers > > Tom > > > > > Member Information: > > List owner: Ian Sharpe Owner@... > Editor: Ross Boardman Editor@... > > Post message: egroups > Subscribe: -subscribeegroups > Unsubscribe: -unsubscribeegroups > > Thank you for supporting Remote Medics Online. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2002 Report Share Posted June 26, 2002 Hi Tom What is the nature of your disagreament ..... Tony M tom5255 <tom5255@...> wrote: Hi all, having a disagreement on the mech of action of H2S when it kills you! Any thoughts Cheers Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2002 Report Share Posted June 27, 2002 The main point was wether H2S blocked 02 transfer by replacing oxygen with Iron III or wether it interupted the electrial transmissons from the brain teeling you to breath. Nigel forwarded a nice article which proved my point! Cheers Tom >From: Tony M <gold_wing_uk@...> >Reply- > >Subject: Re: h2s >Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 02:51:16 -0700 (PDT) > > >Hi Tom >What is the nature of your disagreament ..... >Tony M > tom5255 <tom5255@...> wrote: Hi all, >having a disagreement on the mech of action of H2S when it kills you! >Any thoughts > >Cheers > >Tom > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Hi Chaps, I've followed the discussion regarding H2S, I worked for 5 years in a field that had up to and beyond 40k ppm H2S in the production system an wells. All personnel lived with their BA escape set in their pockes! At the end of the day it does not make much of a difference what is happining metabolically nor knowing the indepth pathology and relating it to SpO2 readings unles you know some basic facts; signs and symptoms and importantly the level of the H2S ppm hit. The symptoms that are presenting and the understanding or knowing if the patient has had a previous history of H2S exposure, does / did smoke and any other cardio-vascular / RTI's or pulmonary dissorder which can and does reduce his / her resistance to the effects of H2S. This is where it is import to have a handle on the personnal occupation healt monitoring such as " well man / well woman " programmes. 0.13ppm - Min preceptable smell - little effect 4.60ppm - Easily detectable with moderate smell - little effect - most personal gas detectors will alarm at 5ppm and personnel evacuate area protocols area observed 10ppm - Sence of smell may go but not always the case - begining of eye irritation 27ppm - Strong smell - tolerable to some - eyes start to stream 100ppm - Coughing, eyes streaming, total loss of smell two minute plus 200-300ppm - Marked eye inflammation & Resp Tract irritation 500+ppm - Loss of consciousness, stopping / pausing of respiration & death if not remove from area to safe clean are - less that 3 minutes exposure 700+ppm - Rapid loss of consciousness, stopping / pausing of respiration leading death - brain damage almost certain - exposure time measured in seconds 1000+ppm - Unconscious on immediate exposure, respiration stopped within seconds, death - even removal to fresh air will not help to aid in a good outcome, at best ALS protocol and anti-toxic protocols will only end in permanent brain damage with successful resuscitation 2000+ppm - Instant death Sabre International & Total Safety in the UK can give you supporting guidence and information, Aberdeen Royal Infirmary have set protocols on H2S treatment or for that matter any toxic gasses, Prof. Graham Page or any of the medical staff are up to date on treatments. I'm not been pedantic but sometimes the basics are more important than the indepth science and without having blood gas analysis etc treat the symptoms in front of you (this is the way of thinking within hyperbaric medicine which is another one of my specialties), I hope this has helped the discussion and hope you get the information you need. Rgds, Donnie > > > Dear All, > > Monitoring Spo2 will not add any things to your management of H2S poisoning, because already you know the pathophy of H2S and I would rather concentrate on treatment which maily is O2 and some cases hyperbaric chambers and as well symptomatic treatment as follows: > > 1.Decontamination: > > > Patient without skin or eye irritation they do not need decontamination, they have to be transferred directly to the AMP > Ø Eye: > - Do Not irrigate frostbitten eyes. > - Eye irritation: Irrigate with NS water for 5min > Ø Skin: > - Frostbitten skin: cover the affected part gently in blanket(Warm) encourage the victim to exercise the affected part. > - Exposed skin: flush with water for 5min > > 2.Medical treatment: > > > > ØBLS protocol + O2 high concentration 15 l/min + + + > Ø Monitor + IV line + glucose solution 5% > Ø For patient with bronchospasm: > - If victim responsive treat with aerosolized bronchodilators : > • Bricanyl monodoses 5mg/2ml NS (2-6hrs action) > • Methylprednisolone 1mg/kg iv slow. > - If unconscious treat with: > • Bricanyl monodose subcutaneous 3microgram > • Methylprednisolone 1mg/kg iv slow. > Ø Some patient develop pulmonary edema : > • 40 mg of Furosemide IV > and trigger your medevac to the nearest and appropriate medical facility and think about hyperbar chambre if the casualty has neurologic disorders. > > Regards > > Dr:Zehari > > @...: w.mackie@...: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:08:10 -0700Subject: Re: H2S > > > > Et all;The patho and chemists in the group have made me also go back to the books, the good doctor is right on track in explanation, thanks for the review. I would like to add that there is a possibility of generating methemoglinemia to a greater degree from exposure, of H2S than generating sulfhemoglobin, from my readings but exactly how ... still reading. The problem is we have not answered the original query so yes methhemoglobin and sulfhemoglobin will affect SpO2 readings, in the typical pulse Oximeter, one would need ABGs and a co-oximeter to get accurate numbers, although sulfhemoglobin levels are said to be not useful in treatment of H2S poisoning. Now for giggles have many seen the new RAD 57 ? http://www.masimo.com/rad-57/They are flying off the shelves here as we now CAN read carboxyhemoglobin levels now in the field .. that said the regular pulse ox is quite impudent on CO poisonings, I think most of us would be down to supportive care in most cases either H2S or CO.cheersWilf H2SDoes anybody know if hydrogen sulfide will bind to the hemaglobin andcrowd out O2? In essence, I'm wondering if a pulse ox reading is semireliable in an H2S exposure or it it can just be scrapped like incarbon monoxide exposures?Thanks!Jessie __________________________________________________________Vous voulez savoir ce que vous pouvez faire avec le nouveau Windows Live ? Lancez- vous !http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/default.aspx[Non- text portions of this message have been removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Découvrez Windows Live Spaces et créez votre site Web perso en quelques clics ! > http://spaces.live.com/signup.aspx > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Wilf has produced an answer, nice work sir. At the end of the day, SpO2 readings deserve very little credit as an independent diagnostic tool in my book. If the pt is awake, their complaint, lung assessment and respiratory effort dictate my path. The pulse ox earns its keep by being helpful in monitoring trends when serial blood gasses aren't possible (which is most of the time). So if I'm around H2S and I smell a rotten egg fart, I will beat feet to the infirmary and demand the RAD 57! Peace, Guy From: Wilf Mackie <w.mackie@...> Subject: Re: H2S Date: Monday, January 12, 2009, 1:08 PM Et all; The patho and chemists in the group have made me also go back to the books, the good doctor is right on track in explanation, thanks for the review. I would like to add that there is a possibility of generating methemoglinemia to a greater degree from exposure, of H2S than generating sulfhemoglobin, from my readings but exactly how ... still reading. The problem is we have not answered the original query so yes methhemoglobin and sulfhemoglobin will affect SpO2 readings, in the typical pulse Oximeter, one would need ABGs and a co-oximeter to get accurate numbers, although sulfhemoglobin levels are said to be not useful in treatment of H2S poisoning. Now for giggles have many seen the new RAD 57 ? http://www.masimo. com/rad-57/ They are flying off the shelves here as we now CAN read carboxyhemoglobin levels now in the field .. that said the regular pulse ox is quite impudent on CO poisonings, I think most of us would be down to supportive care in most cases either H2S or CO. cheers Wilf [Remotemedics. co.uk] H2S Does anybody know if hydrogen sulfide will bind to the hemaglobin andcrowd out O2? In essence, I'm wondering if a pulse ox reading is semireliable in an H2S exposure or it it can just be scrapped like incarbon monoxide exposures?Thanks! Jessie ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Vous voulez savoir ce que vous pouvez faire avec le nouveau Windows Live ? Lancez-vous ! http://www.microsof t.com/windows/ windowslive/ default.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Oh I agree and I thank everybody for their answers. We had a false alarm last week and everybody " involved " was absolutely complaint free. It just left me with the scenario running through my head and occurred to me that I had no idea if an SpO2 reading would have ANY validity whatsoever if there were real patients in this case. Just one of those things that I was simply curious about since I was afforded the time to ponder it. Jessie ----- " Guy " <guyser1975@...> wrote: | | | | Wilf has produced an answer, nice work sir. | | At the end of the day, SpO2 readings deserve very little credit as an independent diagnostic tool in my book. If the pt is awake, their complaint, lung assessment and respiratory effort dictate my path. | | The pulse ox earns its keep by being helpful in monitoring trends when serial blood gasses aren't possible (which is most of the time). | | So if I'm around H2S and I smell a rotten egg fart, I will beat feet to the infirmary and demand the RAD 57! | | Peace, | | Guy | Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Hiya Guys, With all this talk of H2S, does anyone know of any H2S awareness courses run in the UK, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Jessie, Where are you working? myself I am working in the midlle east we have 42% H2S . regards Dr:Zehari @...: medicjess@...: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:46:43 +0000Subject: Re: H2S Oh I agree and I thank everybody for their answers. We had a false alarm last week and everybody " involved " was absolutely complaint free. It just left me with the scenario running through my head and occurred to me that I had no idea if an SpO2 reading would have ANY validity whatsoever if there were real patients in this case. Just one of those things that I was simply curious about since I was afforded the time to ponder it. Jessie ----- " Guy " <guyser1975@...> wrote: | | | | Wilf has produced an answer, nice work sir. | | At the end of the day, SpO2 readings deserve very little credit as an independent diagnostic tool in my book. If the pt is awake, their complaint, lung assessment and respiratory effort dictate my path. | | The pulse ox earns its keep by being helpful in monitoring trends when serial blood gasses aren't possible (which is most of the time). | | So if I'm around H2S and I smell a rotten egg fart, I will beat feet to the infirmary and demand the RAD 57! | | Peace, | | Guy | Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Welcome back, http://www.sabreh2s.com/ Hope it helps out. From: whitediesel@... <whitediesel@...> Subject: Re: H2S Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 2:09 AM Hiya Guys, With all this talk of H2S, does anyone know of any H2S awareness courses run in the UK, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I'm onshore in the US in an area that has a " few " spots with H2S. We don't actually have any live production, primarily research right now. Jessie ----- " O C " <slbdoctor@...> wrote: | | | | | Jessie, | | Where are you working? | | myself I am working in the midlle east we have 42% H2S . | | regards | | Dr:Zehari | | @... : medicjess@... : Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:46:43 +0000Subject: Re: H2S | | Oh I agree and I thank everybody for their answers. We had a false alarm last week and everybody " involved " was absolutely complaint free. It just left me with the scenario running through my head and occurred to me that I had no idea if an SpO2 reading would have ANY validity whatsoever if there were real patients in this case. Just one of those things that I was simply curious about since I was afforded the time to ponder it. Jessie ----- " Guy " < guyser1975@... > wrote: | | | | Wilf has produced an answer, nice work sir. | | At the end of the day, SpO2 readings deserve very little credit as an independent diagnostic tool in my book. If the pt is awake, their complaint, lung assessment and respiratory effort dictate my path. | | The pulse ox earns its keep by being helpful in monitoring trends when serial blood gasses aren't possible (which is most of the time). | | So if I'm around H2S and I smell a rotten egg fart, I will beat feet to the infirmary and demand the RAD 57! | | Peace, | | Guy | Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Hi , Sabre International & Total Safety in the UK can give you supporting guidence and information, Aberdeen Royal Infirmary have set protocols on H2S treatment or for that matter any toxic gasses, Prof. Graham Page or any of the medical staff are up to date on treatments. I'll get contact details for regarding courses you and mail out accordingly, in the mean time I need your direct mail to send you the protocols that have. Rgds, Donnie > > Hiya Guys, > > With all this talk of H2S, does anyone know of any H2S > awareness courses run in the UK, > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 It makes me so happy to see SP02 taking little credit in this post, it deserves very little credit indeed | | | | Wilf has produced an answer, nice work sir. | | At the end of the day, SpO2 readings deserve very little credit as an independent diagnostic tool in my book. If the pt is awake, their complaint, lung assessment and respiratory effort dictate my path. | | The pulse ox earns its keep by being helpful in monitoring trends when serial blood gasses aren't possible (which is most of the time). | | So if I'm around H2S and I smell a rotten egg fart, I will beat feet to the infirmary and demand the RAD 57! | | Peace, | | Guy | [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > | > | __________________________________________________________ > | Sur Windows Live Ideas, découvrez en exclusivité de nouveaux services en ligne... si nouveaux qu'ils ne sont pas encore sortis officiellement sur le marché ! > | http://ideas.live.com > | > | Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.