Question...

[Guest guest]

<If both are comfortable with one another then time has no meaning. I'm lucky that my hubby and I enjoy each other even if we have nothing to talk about like during long car trips. We both enjoy reading and love having in depth conversations on articles from Science magazines, Reader's Digest etc...> Long car trips suck when there's someone always talking non-stop. That's definitely a plus on your side. It's great that you two like to read books and have stimulation to the imagination. <two people can enjoy being around each other for long periods of time if they are well rounded.> I'm not the well-rounded type who could deal with people yet. There's always a clash. I'm growing everyday though. <they do not rely on one another for happiness but know what

makes themselves complete.> That seems like a cliche. I guess it's true though. <You know that if a person blames you for feeling unhappy, they have not grown up enough to be a good partner.> My mom & dad still act like that even though they're in their forties. My dad has been able to hold onto his wife for about 15 years. My mom has had several boyfriends and was never able to keep them. I blame them for my problems because they helped me in some ways and didn't help me in others and when I start to think of how things could have been I just don't talk to them because they full of it too. So, I guess I can understand what you mean by the above statement.Kim <6emini@...> wrote: Wow- you really work things

through don't you. I didn't check the figures but think that none of the numbers matter. It depends on the person your spending time with. If both are comfortable with one another then time has no meaning. I'm lucky that my hubby and I enjoy each other even if we have nothing to talk about like during long car trips. We both enjoy reading and love having in depth conversations on articles from Science magazines, Reader's Digest etc...The point I'm trying to make is that two people can enjoy being around each other for long periods of time if they are well rounded. Meaning, they do not rely on one another for happiness but know what makes themselves complete. You know that if a person blames you for feeling unhappy, they have not grown up enough to be a good partner.Kim>> I meant

6 or 8 hours as the ideal weekends and so forth. If I spent 3 hours a day with a partner 7 days a week, at 25 years that would be like 126.13 days out of 1,925 days spent with my partner. That's like 15.35 percent of my life with my parnter whereas 6 hours a day would b like 30.70 percent. I figure 4 hours a day would be good. I may have gotten the calculations wrong. If that's the case feel free to correct the errors.

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[Guest guest]

I blamed my parents too. My childhood was screwed up and my parents

never let my siblings and I know about mental illness in the family.

I also felt and still feel uncomfortable around people. I've always

had a hunch they thought I was weird because when I would talk about

things that I found interesting, I'd completely freak them out.

They'd look at me like I was from another planet.

When I started to go out in my teens, I had a hard time relating to

guys. I was much too sexual and never thought about what would make a

relationship work. Girls I knew would drag me out to meet guys and I

knew if I had conversations or spoke too much the guys would scram. I

just wanted soooo much to be liked and ended up either trying to make

lots of jokes or flirting too much. It was sad that I tried to fake

who I really was.

My hubby worries that were screwing our kids up because we rarely have

people over to our home except for relatives. He grew up having great

big parties, lots of friends and company. I hate that and never want

to invite company to the house. I tell my hubby that I think our kids

are better off because we are honest about our illnesses, faults, and

insecurities.

Growing into a well rounded person takes time. If you find someone

who accepts you for who you are they'll support you as you change in

different ways. Sorry if I sound preachy, I just feel like I can

relate to you.

Kim

<snip> My mom & dad still act like that even though they're in their

forties. My dad has been able to hold onto his wife for about 15

years. My mom has had several boyfriends and was never able to keep

them. I blame them for my problems because they helped me in some ways

and didn't help me in others and when I start to think of how things

could have been I just don't talk to them because they full of it too.

So, I guess I can understand what you mean by the above statement.

[Guest guest]

Kim wrote: " I'm lucky that my hubby and I enjoy each other even if

we have nothing to talk about like during long car trips. We both

enjoy reading and love having in depth conversations on articles

from Science magazines, Reader's Digest etc... "

Nick wrote: " Long car trips suck when there's someone always

talking non-stop. That's definitely a plus on your side. It's great

that you two like to read books and have stimulation to the

imagination. "

Maybe I misread either Kim or Nick, but what I read was that they

enjoy each other even when they are in silence together. Sometimes

the deepest moments two people can spend together are found in

silent communication (and no, I am not referring to anything but

being quiet together, each thinking their own thoughts).

Kim wrote: " .. <snip> ... they do not rely on one another for

happiness but know what makes themselves complete. "

Nick wrote: " That seems like a cliche. I guess it's true though. "

It may be a cliche, but cliches are just overused phrases that speak

to a truth.

If you cannot be at peace within yourself with yourself, how can you

expect someone to be at peace with you? To my way of thinking, this

is where relationships begin and end ... with the peace found within

each person. The better you can accept yourself unconditionally,

the better you can interact with another in a deeply committed

relationship.

Raven

[Guest guest]

The established churches, for a start. Their role in society

throughout feudal times. Telling the peasants,

This famous verse from the hymn All Things Bright And Beautiful has

fallen out of use in the last century! -

" The rich man in his castle,

the poor man at his gate,

he made them, high or lowly,

and ordered their estate. "

At least the Bible and Christianity have a very mixed message about

acceptism and some of what Jesus did was on a fighting-back model,

e.g. overturning the moneychangers in the temple. But that action,

explained by himself as a resistance to evil, doesn't half contradict

5:39 - if he actually said " I say to you, that you resist not

evil " . But the Sermon On the Mount, where all the Christian meekness

sayings come from, is part of the added material that appears in

but not Mark, and some of its content appears in Luke in a

different form and place, so a critical New Testament reader can see

more editorial agendas than just Jesus's, in the gospels as well as

the epistles. That's down to point of view.

The messages of obedience by slaves, and " all authority comes from

God " , in Ephesians, Colossians, and Philemon were taken by the

American slave-owners as legitimising themselves and proving slave

revolt disapproved by God. Many of the slaves needed God and were

intensely religious, but the same ones were rarely intensely political

as well, doesn't it seem? These messages were also used ironically by

the atheist KGB, inside their prisons, to weaken Christian political

prisoners, so say the memoirs of Anatoly Scharansky who was glad to be

Jewish instead for that reason. However Judaism had produced Proverbs,

with a famous line about children that has been just as bad - and

after spanking a child to atrocity point a ninteenth century parent

could give them a Bible admonition not to bear grudge about it.

Most mystics and mediums and New Agers and modern witchcraft etc, who

claim to offer to teach you special spiritual powers that are very

tempting to have, will use it as a trick to turn you acceptist first.

Most of them say: you must make your mind more peaceful and less

concerned in wordly things, before you are in the right state of mind

to learn the psychic power. They tell you to forgive, let go, don't

hold onto any negative feelings or fights. In the jargon: they are

filling you with negative energies at the low levels, " a blockage " in

your " chakras " , they are the wrong state of mind for tuning into the

spirits, they are " holding you back " from intitiation into the

imaginary promised power or the secret circle. The bait. The healthily

wary would expect these types of religion to have a catch, but why is

it always exactly this catch?

The karmic religions of the east are the most unequivocally acceptist,

because they believe everything that happens is deserved. On grounds

of it, if a child spends part of their education in a Buddhist

monastery in countries where they are revered, and is harshly treated,

e.g. made to kneel all day on a rock-hard local fruit's shell a a

punishemnt, their angry parents will have no comeback for it. I read

about that in a Khmer Rouge Holocaust survivor's book, about the old

Cambodia before the revolution, and how thought it was peaceful and

complacent society there were unjust experiences in it for a communist

movement to play on. Karmic fatalism anciently underpinned the set-up

of the castes in India. If you are a low-caste Hindu, you believe you

deserve it for sins in a former life that you can know nothing of and

nobody can disprove. So you don't become political about it and there

is less demand on the high-castes to share resources properly.

It's not PC for secular voices outside India to be critical of

Hinduism though. It's PC to talk to members of all the ethnicites that

formerly suffered Imperialism, more about keeping their traditional

culture going and following what its religion says than about making

personal choices for themselves.

I credit your Jehovah Witnesses with writing about the Indian castes

with the injustice clear and no PC fudging on it - I've seen it in

their Mankind's Search For God book. But in exchange for that, I'm

more disturbed by the apparent social agenda of this paragraph from

the Witnesses' creationist book, which some Witness cousins once sent

me. NB They are now estranged from me exactly for not letting go of a

real fighting-back issue when they thought I should, and they caused

more stress not less by unfairly becoming estranged over it!

P207 - "

In his Sermon on the Mount he even said: " Continue to love your

enemies. " Many may scoff at this, calling it weakness, but they pay a

price. Science has learned that lack of love is a major factor in many

mental ills and other problems. The British medical journal Lancet

once noted: " By far the most significant discovery of mental science

is the power of love to protect and to restore the mind. " Similarly, a

noted stress specialist, Dr Hans Selye, said: " It is not the hated

person or the frustrating boss who will get ulcers, hypertensions, and

heart disease. It is the one who hates or the one who permits himself

to be frustrated. Love thy neighbour is one of the sagest bits of

medical advice ever given. " Indeed, the Bible's wisdom is far ahead of

modern discoveries. ...

"

Quite aside from whether to believe in creation, I just wouldn't

accept it as moral for any creator to choose to arrange us in this

way. That passage gives evil bosses and overpushing teachers and every

foul bully on Earth an absolute invitation.

>

> Interesting. Do you see this message coming from the ruling classes or

> the government? It is a message from the bible meant to keep peace

> between brothers and for each individual to retain their health and

> happiness. But I would be curious if the powers that be would take

> advantage of that and promote it. Any details?

[Guest guest]

" If you cannot be at peace within yourself with yourself, how can you

expect someone to be at peace with you? To my way of thinking, this

is where relationships begin and end ... with the peace found within

each person. The better you can accept yourself unconditionally,

the better you can interact with another in a deeply committed

relationship. "

I find this rather odd, because for me personally I have little

difficulty left to my own devices and am mostly at peace if I do not

have to physically (in the flesh) have to interact with this world

much. Today has been overload for me - I just wanted to get home and

be left alone. Unfortunately I came back to a load of changes,

because my mum just cannot resist doing/changing things -

Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Maybe I am not understanding correctly? because I am mostly at peace

with myself and yet find it hard with another in the equation.

Now I am happily sat in silence reading and typing with no unwanted

sensory input :-) Still lots of processing to do. Will write about

the Donna talk poss' tomorrow - the talk itself was great,

learnt a lot :-) Bought a new book :-)

I can't say I am always at peace with myself alone, but the majority

if not all my prob's seem to stem from confusion and sensory overload

that came from outside my own enviroment - too much to take in,

process; I know this is my problem and one that I have not yet

figured out how to overcome.

" That seems like a cliche. I guess it's true though. "

>

> It may be a cliche, but cliches are just overused phrases that

speak

> to a truth.

>

> If you cannot be at peace within yourself with yourself, how can

you

> expect someone to be at peace with you? To my way of thinking,

this

> is where relationships begin and end ... with the peace found

within

> each person. The better you can accept yourself unconditionally,

> the better you can interact with another in a deeply committed

> relationship.

>

> Raven

>

[Guest guest]

<I blamed my parents too. My childhood was screwed up and my parents never let my siblings and I know about mental illness in the family. I also felt and still feel uncomfortable around people. I've always had a hunch they thought I was weird because when I would talk about things that I found interesting, I'd completely freak them out. They'd look at me like I was from another planet.> There's alot of things people know about and never say anything for their own evil purposes. Manipulation is not always evil. It can be though when people use it against people in their families. Besides the bad memories, there are good ones. I remember some semblance of happiness when wrestling with my older brother or watching Ultimate Fighting Championship. As a kid I moved to a small, rural area for a couple of years and learned that there is a huge difference than living in the city. I think about alot

of people who have never had the opportunity to have their own yard and that makes me thankful. <When I started to go out in my teens, I had a hard time relating to guys. I was much too sexual and never thought about what would make a relationship work. Girls I knew would drag me out to meet guys and I knew if I had conversations or spoke too much the guys would scram. I just wanted soooo much to be liked and ended up either trying to make lots of jokes or flirting too much. It was sad that I tried to fake who I really was.> If you told a guy you were too sexual he woudn't have any clue what you're talking about. :-) I always have to laugh about the nervousness factor. I went with some friends to the mall once in my sixth grade year and I was still painfully shy around them all. If there's one thing that helped me it was

antidepressants. For me, there wasn't anything else that could have helped in my late teens. It's funny about the jokes and flirting. I remember developing nervous tics of all sorts and I'd make all sorts of expressions on my face just practicing when someone would say something so I would be prepared. Then my psychologist told me it doesn't work. <My hubby worries that were screwing our kids up because we rarely have people over to our home except for relatives. He grew up having great big parties, lots of friends and company. I hate that and never want to invite company to the house. I tell my hubby that I think our kids are better off because we are honest about our illnesses, faults, and insecurities.> <Worry itself is enough to cause problems with kids. I guess it's going to happen. Everybody dies. Even if one grew up in the perfect family there are

going to be problems. There's a balancing act they say but, it sure hasn't reached most people. Partners can bring out those negativities and make one stronger. There will never be familiarity. I look at something one day and the next day I don't have the same memory or ability to catch the energy of that memory I had yesterday. > <Growing into a well rounded person takes time. If you find someone who accepts you for who you are they'll support you as you change in different ways. Sorry if I sound preachy, I just feel like I can relate to you.> In a way I'm glad it's not up to me. Sometimes I just have to think to mysef that the people in power aren't able to be aware of their power as much as most people would like to be aware of their own power. It sort of makes me feel better about it. Kim

<6emini@...> wrote: I blamed my parents too. My childhood was screwed up and my parents never let my siblings and I know about mental illness in the family. I also felt and still feel uncomfortable around people. I've always had a hunch they thought I was weird because when I would talk about things that I found interesting, I'd completely freak them out. They'd look at me like I was from another planet.When I started to go out in my teens, I had a hard time relating to guys. I was much too sexual and never thought about what would make a relationship work. Girls I knew would drag me out to meet guys and I knew if I had conversations or spoke too much the guys would scram. I just wanted soooo much to be liked and ended up either trying to make lots of

jokes or flirting too much. It was sad that I tried to fake who I really was.My hubby worries that were screwing our kids up because we rarely have people over to our home except for relatives. He grew up having great big parties, lots of friends and company. I hate that and never want to invite company to the house. I tell my hubby that I think our kids are better off because we are honest about our illnesses, faults, and insecurities.Growing into a well rounded person takes time. If you find someone who accepts you for who you are they'll support you as you change in different ways. Sorry if I sound preachy, I just feel like I can relate to you.Kim<snip> My mom & dad still act like that even though they're in their forties. My dad has been able to hold

onto his wife for about 15 years. My mom has had several boyfriends and was never able to keep them. I blame them for my problems because they helped me in some ways and didn't help me in others and when I start to think of how things could have been I just don't talk to them because they full of it too. So, I guess I can understand what you mean by the above statement.

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[Guest guest]

I have much to be thankful for, but there was very little happiness

in my childhood. There was always an under-current of depression and

misery.

Ever since I can remember I've realized I do not fit in in this world

and I have wished that I was dead.

My sister too.

Tom

Administrator

<I blamed my parents too. My childhood was screwed up and my parents

never let my siblings and I know about mental illness in the family.

I also felt and still feel uncomfortable around people. I've always

had a hunch they thought I was weird because when I would talk about

things that I found interesting, I'd completely freak them out.

They'd look at me like I was from another planet.>

There's alot of things people know about and never say anything for

their own evil purposes. Manipulation is not always evil. It can be

though when people use it against people in their families. Besides

the bad memories, there are good ones. I remember some semblance of

happiness when wrestling with my older brother or watching Ultimate

Fighting Championship. As a kid I moved to a small, rural area for a

couple of years and learned that there is a huge difference than

living in the city. I think about alot of people who have never had

the opportunity to have their own yard and that makes me thankful.

[Guest guest]

Direct hit on c4 battleship! When I was 2 and my sister came to this earth I rejoiced. From the age of three til the present day it has been no fun ever with her. Some guys complete that process by shooting their families up, then themselves. I'm slowly figuring out that they (my family) are just human and I'm not. I have an instinct to check on them and see if they're okay but, then they treat me like a monkey in a circus. I have great respect for my parents. The problem I get is confusing respect for admiration. It wasn't an admiring aspect that brought her to give birth to me. It was a mother's instinct and a father's to a lesser extent. Thinking of death has been a cold comfort for me. I get a sense of everything being dead and it helps in some way because I get the illusion that I'm dead and wonder if there's a way I can lose more and more of the hallucination of life. Doesn't it always seem like there's a contradiction? I'm learning to laugh at myself about it

and to be honest with people I can trust even if they tell someone else. The insomniac in fight club is a good example of the death philosophy. The depression and misery will always be there I'm guessing because there is on reason and no blame. One can live their life trying to right every wrong and then get more depressed and in pain. I am blessed to have a brain that is still working and learning what the world is like everyday without having to live with my family anymore. environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: I have much to be thankful for, but there was very little happiness in my childhood. There was always an under-current of depression and misery.Ever since I can remember I've realized I do not fit in in this world and I have wished that I was dead.My sister

too.TomAdministrator<I blamed my parents too. My childhood was screwed up and my parents never let my siblings and I know about mental illness in the family. I also felt and still feel uncomfortable around people. I've always had a hunch they thought I was weird because when I would talk about things that I found interesting, I'd completely freak them out. They'd look at me like I was from another planet.>There's alot of things people know about and never say anything for their own evil purposes. Manipulation is not always evil. It can be though when people use it against people in their families. Besides the bad memories, there are good ones. I remember some semblance of happiness when wrestling with my older brother or watching Ultimate Fighting Championship. As a kid I moved to a small,

rural area for a couple of years and learned that there is a huge difference than living in the city. I think about alot of people who have never had the opportunity to have their own yard and that makes me thankful.

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[Guest guest]

I have perhaps said it before on these forums, that from a young age I

decided I did not like humans and I hated being one - I wanted out, I

wanted never to have exsisted.

I still struggle with depression, I am finding strength from a good

source now however :-) It still a struggle at times.

>

> I have much to be thankful for, but there was very little happiness

> in my childhood. There was always an under-current of depression and

> misery.

>

> Ever since I can remember I've realized I do not fit in in this world

> and I have wished that I was dead.

>

> My sister too.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

[Guest guest]

>

" I have often heard people say 'what difference can just one person

> make, what difference can I make', to me sounds like a bit of a cop

> out, if everyone thought like that then no-one would stand up.

> Sometimes it takes just one to speak up against something and then

> others also come forward. "

It depends on whether doing so will beat your head against the wall and

you'll get in trouble in vain and if you have other responsibilities

and good you can do elsewhere by not fighting the system and following

the law, or not. You have to choose your battles wisely. But I have

great admiration for bravery (Braveheart an example) and people who

will step out of their comfort zone to help others or do what is right.

[Guest guest]

>

>

> " Woaw "

This made me wonder--do Brits say 'whoa' and spell it 'woaw' or is it

an American slang picked up from the cowboys and now you, a Brit, are

trying to use it?

[Guest guest]

>

> " The established churches, for a start. Their role in society

> throughout feudal times. Telling the peasants,

>

> This famous verse from the hymn All Things Bright And Beautiful has

> fallen out of use in the last century! -

> " The rich man in his castle,

> the poor man at his gate,

> he made them, high or lowly,

> and ordered their estate. " "

Excellent point. Interesting about the hymn. But don't confuse

religions with the bible. The Church at that time was quite happy

keeping the poor ignorant and poor, especially about the bible, and

had translators burned at the stake for trying to get the bible in

the common language of the day.

>

> " At least the Bible and Christianity have a very mixed message about

> acceptism and some of what Jesus did was on a fighting-back model,

> e.g. overturning the moneychangers in the temple. But that action,

> explained by himself as a resistance to evil, doesn't half

contradict

> 5:39 - if he actually said " I say to you, that you resist

not

> evil " . "

Jesus' overturning the moneychangers' tables and also calling the

religious leaders vipers and offspring of vipers shows that God would

not stand for the ones who were abusing his sheep. He was acting on

behalf of God in that capacity just as he will at Armaggedon where he

fights for God. When he needed to stand up for what was right, he did

and will. Turning the other cheek is not meant to turn people into

weak-willed milquetoasts, we can stand up for ourselves, but it does

put a check on a fighting spirit and we are admonished not to fight

back, but be peaceable to all men. We are not Jesus or God and can't

take it upon us to decide who we think should be punished. That was

God's temple that the moneychangers were using abusively and he was

Jesus. He also knew the hearts of the religious leaders and so was

able to make that determination that they were bad. He did not fight

back when he was arrested because he knew what he came to earth to

do, but could have. On the other hand, his followers were admonished

not to fight or kill, when drew the sword and cut off the

soldier's ear, in Jesus' behalf.

> " The messages of obedience by slaves, and " all authority comes from

> God " , in Ephesians, Colossians, and Philemon were taken by the

> American slave-owners as legitimising themselves and proving slave

> revolt disapproved by God. Many of the slaves needed God and were

> intensely religious, but the same ones were rarely intensely

political

> as well, doesn't it seem? These messages were also used ironically

by

> the atheist KGB, inside their prisons, to weaken Christian political

> prisoners, so say the memoirs of Anatoly Scharansky who was glad to

be

> Jewish instead for that reason. "

Sadly, people have used the bible for their ends in too many ways to

count. A more likely comparison to the slaves of bible times, is the

employee of today. Slaves then had rights and could buy their

freedom, and slaves under the Jewish system were freed on the Jubilee

year. And all the more reason to know the bible so as to not be

swayed by those such as the KGB.

" with a famous line about children that has been just as bad - and

> after spanking a child to atrocity point a ninteenth century parent

> could give them a Bible admonition not to bear grudge about it. "

Again, a misuse. The 'rod' spoken of in Proverbs was the same as a

shepherd's rod, which was used to guide the sheep, and refers to

discipline in general (which can include spanking but does not have

to), not beating with a rod.

>

> " The healthily

> wary would expect these types of religion to have a catch, but why

is

> it always exactly this catch? "

It is good to be wary about any religion. In the bible the Beoreans

were praised for checking what the apostles said, not just believing

them.

>

" P207 - "

> In his Sermon on the Mount he even said: " Continue to love your

> enemies. " Many may scoff at this, calling it weakness, but they pay

a

> price. Science has learned that lack of love is a major factor in

many

> mental ills and other problems. The British medical journal Lancet

> once noted: " By far the most significant discovery of mental science

> is the power of love to protect and to restore the mind. "

Similarly, a

> noted stress specialist, Dr Hans Selye, said: " It is not the hated

> person or the frustrating boss who will get ulcers, hypertensions,

and

> heart disease. It is the one who hates or the one who permits

himself

> to be frustrated. Love thy neighbour is one of the sagest bits of

> medical advice ever given. " Indeed, the Bible's wisdom is far ahead

of

> modern discoveries. ...

> "

>

> Quite aside from whether to believe in creation, I just wouldn't

> accept it as moral for any creator to choose to arrange us in this

> way. That passage gives evil bosses and overpushing teachers and

every

> foul bully on Earth an absolute invitation. "

Not so. Again, we are not weaklings. We stand up for ourselves. Often

it is strength not to punch someone back, but to walk away. Fighting

can make the situation worse, make enemies and further alienate an

upset person. Reacting calmly will often 'heap coals on their head'

and make them feel stupid or get them to calm down and see the

situation clearly. Proverbs says, " A calm heart is the life of the

fleshly organism, but jealousy is rottenness to the bones. " - Pr

14:30. There are others as well, that show that being a quick-to-

anger person can have health issues. It's been found that anger can

cause little indentations in the veins causing damage to them in

which cholesterol collects to try to heal and other things in the

blood collect, causing blockages.

[Guest guest]

I don't know how to spell it :-) but yeah it like the whoa :-)

Local programme here a bit back said that the younger generation in

Yorkshire has Yorkshire dialect with Americanisation thrown in :-)

Well eeeeeee by gum - whatever :-)

You are like soooooooo over yonder :-)

I'll try to stop now :-)

> >

> >

> > " Woaw "

>

> This made me wonder--do Brits say 'whoa' and spell it 'woaw' or is

it

> an American slang picked up from the cowboys and now you, a Brit,

are

> trying to use it?

>

[Guest guest]

>

> " I don't know how to spell it :-) but yeah it like the whoa :-)

>

> Local programme here a bit back said that the younger generation in

> Yorkshire has Yorkshire dialect with Americanisation thrown in :-)

>

> Well eeeeeee by gum - whatever :-)

>

> You are like soooooooo over yonder :-)

>

> I'll try to stop now :-) "

>

>Well, yippe aye cay aye, if these are Americanisations they are old

and old west. 'You are like sooooo over yonder' sounds like Wild

West meets Valley Girl (another slang--originating in California in the

80's.)

I guess we still say 'whoa' to stop our horses so that has more usage.

Maybe 'hold your horses' though I don't hear that so much anymore.

[Guest guest]

I think mostly your answers to this are situational. We could agree

situationality is the answer. To me it points to the Bible messages

themselves being situational - they raise options whose applicability

to each situation we should weigh up, every time, but they don't fit

every case as ground-rules.

>

> He was acting on

> behalf of God in that capacity just as he will at Armaggedon where he

> fights for God. When he needed to stand up for what was right, he did

> and will. Turning the other cheek is not meant to turn people into

> weak-willed milquetoasts, we can stand up for ourselves, but it does

> put a check on a fighting spirit and we are admonished not to fight

> back, but be peaceable to all men.

You might be standing up for peace. You might be struggling peaceably,

not fighting physically, but still struggling.

> We are not Jesus or God and can't

> take it upon us to decide who we think should be punished.

We are compelled to do that in order to try to run a society. Because

most of the time Jesus and God have left the job to us.

Even your folks say this remains the inevitable case until Armageddon.

> Sadly, people have used the bible for their ends in too many ways to

> count.

But if it should be taken as God's writ, it was written foreknowing

that it was open to these interpretations. Then, at the time the

interpretations were made, no new demonstrably inspired scriptures

were given to the world that clarified the matter. (or have I missed

anything in the Book of Mormon?)

> A more likely comparison to the slaves of bible times, is the

> employee of today. Slaves then had rights and could buy their

> freedom,

but did they all have money?

> Again, a misuse. The 'rod' spoken of in Proverbs was the same as a

> shepherd's rod, which was used to guide the sheep, and refers to

> discipline in general (which can include spanking but does not have

> to), not beating with a rod.

I have heard this interpretation before. From my local Episcopal

ministers even. But a culture brought up on the idea of parents

denouncing + stoning teenagers for disobedience, Deuteronomy 21:18,

(compare 11:19) would make the misuse easily. If you think the

mkisuse couldn't happen in the original Hebrew, then at least we can

take the translator as an example of a class agenda in religion.

It's more common to misuse a message casting it according to your

society's attitudes, than to be intellectual enough to share the

secret key to interpreting it right. My mum when very young was a

bridesmaid to one of a long-standing friend-family to her mum's. She

kept in touch with the groom, who only died in 2004 aged 89, luckily

she wasn't influenced by him. He was a Methodist Lay Preacher, and his

later letters, as an old man griping about today's children and rating

it as loss of discipline, cited Proverbs in the misuse way.

> > Quite aside from whether to believe in creation, I just wouldn't

> > accept it as moral for any creator to choose to arrange us in this

> > way. That passage gives evil bosses and overpushing teachers and

> every

> > foul bully on Earth an absolute invitation. "

>

> Not so. Again, we are not weaklings. We stand up for ourselves. Often

> it is strength not to punch someone back, but to walk away. Fighting

> can make the situation worse,

Physical strength never correlates with right and wrong. That means

you are looking for another course of action, not for doing nothing.

> make enemies and further alienate an

> upset person. Reacting calmly will often 'heap coals on their head'

> and make them feel stupid or get them to calm down and see the

> situation clearly.

The key word is " often " . This is simply an option we should be aware

of, and weigh in each case. But whether it is right in each case

depends,on the adversary's character. Is there any good side in them

shown to you that you can work on? Are they uncertain in their course

of hostility and open to healing the hurt? Do they actually give a

damn about you? Sometimes. Sometimes not.

Proverbs says, " A calm heart is the life of the

> fleshly organism, but jealousy is rottenness to the bones. " - Pr

> 14:30. There are others as well, that show that being a quick-to-

> anger person can have health issues. It's been found that anger can

> cause little indentations in the veins causing damage to them in

> which cholesterol collects to try to heal and other things in the

> blood collect, causing blockages.

>

Volatility, bad temper, intolerant character, arrogant aggressiveness.

There is an overuse of combative energies in being that way, putting

your body into a stressful fighting mode each time. Someone who feels

strongly about fairness will agree the character types I've just

listed are bad - they tend to go with unfair behaviour, with being the

initiator of unneccessary conflict. My headmaster deserved the bout

of high blood pressure he got from the split-second bellowing tantrums

he had made an art of. It was healing for us to see him get it.

But this information does not favour acceptism. Fighting back,

remember it doesn't have to mean physically, is dealing with anger

that is naturally there because there is just cause for it to be

there. A wronged party who deals with the wrong feels the anger dealt

with and discharged - hence within himself it is reduced. Redress

helps to correct the balance of wrong, hence the cause for anger. the

relief this brings attests that it's healing.

Anger is sustained and renewed by the cause of it, so it's logical

that therapies to discharge it by screaming at cushions or chairs are

a con. To discharge anger successfully, its source of renewal must be

annulled too. An acceptist will never achieve that, because they will

never put the anger to relevant use. So they must just try to suppress

it to the back of their mind, so it's still inside them, caged and

frustrated, and doing the damage as it pulses back and fore.

[Guest guest]

Hold your horses .

I use the term all the time.

Tom

Administrator

" I guess we still say 'whoa' to stop our horses so that has more usage.

Maybe 'hold your horses' though I don't hear that so much anymore. "

[Guest guest]

It was used a lot when I was growing up in Kentucky ... and it's a natural now that I live in Arizona.

Then there's the "Whoa, Dude" usage (Beavis and Butthead et al.)

Amy

Re: Question...

Hold your horses .I use the term all the time.TomAdministrator"I guess we still say 'whoa' to stop our horses so that has more usage.Maybe 'hold your horses' though I don't hear that so much anymore."

[Guest guest]

>

> " I think mostly your answers to this are situational. We could agree

> situationality is the answer. To me it points to the Bible messages

> themselves being situational - they raise options whose applicability

> to each situation we should weigh up, every time, but they don't fit

> every case as ground-rules. "

That's true to a degree. Many people will try and take one scripture

and make a judgement but that's why studying the bible is important

before doing so, because all the scriptures come together to form a

picture. There are some laws but mostly principles and understanding

those, training your conscience that's already there, and working on

your personality to develop the traits the bible admonishes, should

come together and improve with time. It's simple in one sense and deep

in another. Some want laws to guide them each step of the way and

they'll be critical of themselves and others, and some want no laws at

all and will quickly find excuses for themselves and others, but it's

somewhere in between.

>

[Guest guest]

>

> " Hold your horses .

>

> I use the term all the time. "

We midwesterners seem to have a lot of phrases. Do they still use them

there these days? People laugh at some of mine. I'm quaint. Do you

still say, 'Whoa, Nelly.'? One that always gets a laugh is when I

say, " I feel like death warmed over. "

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/31/2006 8:27:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, mikecarrie01@... writes:

That's true to a degree. Many people will try and take one scripture and make a judgement but that's why studying the bible is important before doing so, because all the scriptures come together to form a picture. There are some laws but mostly principles and understanding those, training your conscience that's already there, and working on your personality to develop the traits the bible admonishes, should come together and improve with time.

Christianity is supposed to be an underlying moral foundation which can then be applied to any situation one might face. Situational ethics does play a role, but that is not an excuse to twist or corrupt the teachings to fit a given situation, even though this is very much the fashion these days.

Christianity does not mean anything goes or that everything must be accepted or tolerated. It has standards that one has to follow if one is to claim the title of Christian. One is supposed to do good, but being a do-gooder is probably bad because do-gooders tend to make problems worse rather than better with their interference. One is supposed to avoid sin, but we all fall short and sin on occasion, but that doesn't mean the definition of sin should be "dumbed down" so people can do sin and not be labelled sinners so they can still feel good about themselves.

An example of situational ethics applying to charity. If a person has lost their home say to fire or a hurricane, it would be good to give them some money to help them, preferrably into some kind of fund to help them rebuild their lives. Giving money to a strung out junky begging on the streets would not be good because it would only encourage their destructive habits. A number of people around here had homes badly damaged during Hurricane Isabell, but since most had insurance that was more of an inconvenience than a catastrophe. On the other hand, 15 years ago the newspaper ran a story about this homeless couple who was in the area on their way to Florida where they had family. Lots of people, including my mother, gave them money. They are still around, by the way, still homeless and still carrying various signs. You don't see them as much though since businesses are wise to them and that the man can get hostile, so they get run off after a while.

[Guest guest]

Was told that if someone asks for money to buy food, it's better to give them food or offer to take them somewhere and buy them a meal because the money may just be to buy alcohol or drugs. I do work through my church with a couple of soup kitchens-they both have EXTREMELY strict rules for those who come for their help. And they do their best to get the downtrodden back into society, but the idea is that the downtrodden have to WANT to change. And they do, for the most part. These places have my respect.VISIGOTH@... wrote: In a message dated 5/31/2006 8:27:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, mikecarrie01@... writes: An example of situational ethics applying to charity. If a person has lost

their home say to fire or a hurricane, it would be good to give them some money to help them, preferrably into some kind of fund to help them rebuild their lives. Giving money to a strung out junky begging on the streets would not be good because it would only encourage their destructive habits. . Check the Links section for more FAM forums. If you love something, set it free! So it is with books. See what I mean atwww.bookcrossing.com/friend/nheckoblogcritics.orghttp://notesfromnancy.blogspot.com

Heckofreelance proofreadernancygailus@... __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>

> " Oldsters use " Whoa Nelly. " "

Ohhhh. I'm an oldster, LOL

>

> " I've heard some people say " I feel like death warmed over. " "

Oldsters?

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> " Oldsters use " Whoa Nelly. " "

Ohhhh. I'm an oldster, LOL

>

> " I've heard some people say " I feel like death warmed over. " "

Oldsters?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh, , you know how those young whippersnappers think they

invented all the cool stuff, including jargon and slang .... ;-)

Raven

> >

> > " Oldsters use " Whoa Nelly. " "

>

> Ohhhh. I'm an oldster, LOL

> >

> > " I've heard some people say " I feel like death warmed over. " "

>

> Oldsters?

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Tom, As you know my husband is in recovery. I asked him about your post. He said if she is hiding she is addicted. Normal people don't hide there drinking, if it is controlable there is no need to hide. He also said the fact that she is hiding it, should be a red flag. The sneezing and coughing could be an alergic reation to the alcohol or it could be something else that would be for a Dr to determine. So your anwser is your mother is an alcoholic who is hiding her drinking from your aunt. The alergies could be symptamatic or could be something else entirely. Beth Co-administrator environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: My mother is an alcoholic. Because I take out the recycling bin most garbage days I know how much she drinks:A fith of whisky, a fith of gin, and a fifth of vodka per week minimum.My dad and I do not drink except for a glass of wine now and then every once in a great while. If my dad is feeling gutsy, he mighthave a beer.My aunt has been visiting these past few days and all the while that they are awake my mother has had not one drink, but she guzzles after my aunt goes to bed early.My mother also has an allergy problem. She constantly sneezes, coughs, and blows her nose. But while my aunt has been here, I have

not heard a sneeze, a cough, or a nose blowing until my aunt goes to bed. Then the sneezes, coughs, and nose blowing starts right up.My question is this: Is my mother an alcoholic who is hiding her drinking from my aunt? Or is she doing some sort of social thing and hiding the drinking as well as the sneezing, coughing, and nose blowing? Or is she even aware that she is doing this?In other words, are her allergies and drinking some sort of psychological thing that only exists in her head, or is this some NT social thing?TomAdministrator

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