Were isolated natives really disease resistant?

[Guest guest]

Have read that Washington died of syphilus contracted from a liason

with

a French woman in France while he was there on political business. He also

sported some of the few custom made wooden dentures of the time. In my reading

on Native American herbal medicine I've come across more than one plant cure

for syphilus.

Wanita

At 10:40 PM 5/8/03 -0700, Heidi wrote:

>For what it is worth though, syphilus really had

>a major impact on the white folks and something

>like 25% of European males became infected. It is hard to

>say if it affected Europeans more or not, because it was

>Not Talked About at that time. Syphilus was endemic

>to the Indians, but I haven't heard it mentioned as a

>major cause of illness or death -- I wonder if they

>were more immune to it. Syphilus was called The Pox

>when it first hit Europe, and it caused some major

>outbreaks at first (after Columbus brought it back!)

>and then became a longer-term illness. There is a

>GREAT book about this called " Pox " .

[Guest guest]

> Hey Folks...

As chance would have it I have been inquiring why farmers are feeding

corn/ corn silage to cows.

I had asked this question many times and finally got an answer from my

extension agent who by the way has an organic farm, oxymoron I know but

bear with me.

Farmers feed cows and the principle element of all feed is its protein

content.

young grass is about 35%, hay if your good at it and weather cooperates

20/24%, haylage (fermented hay) same if conditions and storage are at

optimal, oats run from 11% to 19% and corn comes in at a whopping 8.5 to

11%.

But, hay at best can only produce 4/5 tons per acre per year, grass will

do about the same, oats about 2.5 tons per acre, corn will reach 20 tons

per acre.

So even though corn is low on the protein scale you make it up by shear

numbers.

But corn is the most demanding crop on ground nutrients, and it is very

hard to regain sustainablitiy of crops or their nutrient density given

their shear amount of forage compared to protein content in corn

This continent's previous owners followed the same pattern of

consolidation and crop tendencies as modern dairy farmers and we are

seeing the same patterns develop in cows as some of the articles report

happened to the native cultures who out grew their natural ecosystem and

began to cheat with corn.

corn has its place as all grains do but it is a condiment not a staple

for sustainablitiy in a animal or society.

I once farmed land that didn't have cows on it for 45 years.

The original farm had 8 cows 4 horses and 17 acres.

All manure was returned to the land and all feed was grown as well as

pasture in the summer for the animals. Corn was planted but in rotation

with grass and later alphalfa grass.

I tested the ground and the adjoining fields that never got manure and

the acreage of the original farm even though it was commercially farmed

for 35 of those 45 years still had the highest microbial content and

organic matter, 4.1 as compared to 2.3 on the newer non manured fields.

Now take modern agriculture and its corn monoculture for 15/20 years of

straight corn and no rotation or manure, just how nutrient dense is that

grain and how good can the beef/milk be from those animals who are on as

high as 70% corn & corn silage? 96% of all grain grown in the country is

done so for animal feed.

Unfortunately cows have evolved/mutated with our help to get fat on

grain and near starve on grass, (well ok they don't starve on it but

when you are use to fattening cattle on grain it seems they are) so here

we are.

I no longer have cattle that will fatten on grass in any reasonable time

frame, corn syrup has reduced my school system to a prison for minors,

and the people who come to me for advice have such reduced mental

capabilities they cannot comprehend what I am saying to them.

Yes your problems are related to what you eat, and no a pill won't fix

the situation, yes fat is good for you why do think that pie tastes so

good and I don't trim the fat off the steaks you by in my store.

We may be a post -Colombian society, but walk any mall and I think that

history is beginning to repeat itself

And another note, I think ethanol is great, best thing you can do with

corn, but there is a byproduct of that process of corn to fuel known as

wet corn/ distillers grain.

In the early 1900 NYC had lots of breweries, and the city owned lots of

dairies in the city.

The distillers grain was a head ache to the city till they found out

that cows loved it.

But 25 years later it was found that distillers grain affected milk in

such away that a law was passed to prohibit its feeding to city owned

cows because the orphans and prisoners who consumed much of the cities

milk were actually dying from it.

The milk was of such poor quality it was considered cruel to feed it to

the unfortunate of our society.

Jump to 2003. Wi has 5 ethanol plants, MN 14.

The big push for cheap high protein feed 27%( the process jumps the

protein) for dairy cows in our area is guess what? Distillers grain!!!!!

And yes its cheap, its a lowly byproduct of the ethanol industry and it

will boost your bottom line and your bulk tank. WOW......

Talk about history repeating itself, no wonder history classes are only

taught on a marginal scale in our school system, we wouldn't be able to

benefit from corporations goodwill on a regular basis.

Tim

Clearview Acres

[Guest guest]

Woohoo! Preach it! ;-)

> Unfortunately cows have evolved/mutated with our help to get fat on

> grain and near starve on grass, (well ok they don't starve on it but

> when you are use to fattening cattle on grain it seems they are) so

here

> we are.

> I no longer have cattle that will fatten on grass in any reasonable

time

> frame, corn syrup has reduced my school system to a prison for

minors,

> and the people who come to me for advice have such reduced mental

> capabilities they cannot comprehend what I am saying to them.

> Yes your problems are related to what you eat, and no a pill won't

fix

> the situation, yes fat is good for you why do think that pie tastes

so

> good and I don't trim the fat off the steaks you by in my store.

> We may be a post -Colombian society, but walk any mall and I think

that

> history is beginning to repeat itself

Ummm...what breeds of cattle are you seeing that are unable to fatten

on grass?

We have Braunvieh, and many of them are notable exceptions.

[Guest guest]

>Have read that Washington died of syphilus contracted from a liason

>with

>a French woman in France while he was there on political business. He also

>sported some of the few custom made wooden dentures of the time. In my reading

>on Native American herbal medicine I've come across more than one plant cure

>for syphilus.

In the book Pox, it profiles a number of prominent people the author thinks

had syphilus, and how it may have affected their work. It seems to have

come to Europe in 1493 -- via Columbus -- and spread rapidly. It was

especially prevalent during n times, which is interesting -- all

that talk about morality but the houses of prostitution were thriving. I

guess only the wives were supposed to be chaste, so the guys had to satisfy

their animal nature somewhere else.

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

Suze,

I don't have an email for her, but if you ever want to contact Judy, this is

her address:

Judith Mudrak

Independent Personal Consulting

58 Cranberry Run

Southampton, NJ 08088

It's from a public flyer, so I don't think she'd mind it being shared.

Chris

In a message dated 5/9/03 1:31:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

auntjudyg@... writes:

> --- Suze Fisher <s.fisher22@...> wrote:

> >--------->interesting...i don't really have a

> >comment on that (other than

> > " interesting... " ) but i was wondering if you are the

> >Judy who was at the

> >conference, who I worked with, who I sat next to at

> >the Ethiopian dinner,

> >and who's also in the pixelated photo on the

> >website!?

>

> No, unfortunately I was not at the conference :-(

" To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are

to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and

servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore

Roosevelt

[Guest guest]

Here's the link for article from the NYT... not sure I like the title but

there's interesting info.

posted the whole article earlier today but never received it so thought I'd send

the link...

can someone tell me whether they've received the earlier msg

Dedy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

------------------------------------------------

Don't Blame Columbus for All the Indians' Ills -- By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/29/science/social/29INDI.html

[Guest guest]

Hey

We have 4 kinds of cows up here angus, hereford , holestien, semintal

and mixes of all the before mentioned. Oh and jersey.

But we only have 4 months of grass so I do what I can do.

I am looking for an animal that will do well and hereford looks like my

best option.

My buffalo raising friend has found a breed in New Zeland that is

documented not to have had grain for 100 years and do very well on

grass.

He is looking into getting some and I will see if it is a possibility as

well.

I have never heard of your breed, any links on the web?

I am working on my own breed at the moment, I bought a simmental/jersey

cross cow who just dropped a fantastic heifer that was sired by a

holstein.

Lillith has a great big deep body, great feed conversion, high fat milk

and is very quiet.

I saw two daughters of hers at the sale one was a holstien and the other

a jersey and they were fantastic animals as well.

My next bull will probably be simmental to start the chain, I already

have holestein/jersey cross calves on the ground and more to come out of

our Holsteins.

We lease our jerseys so i don't know if the simmental will work for the

owner or not.

I see it as a win win situation, great heifers, and great bull calves

that will finish nice on grass and alittle grain instead of the other

way around.

wrote:

> Woohoo! Preach it! ;-)

>

> > Unfortunately cows have evolved/mutated with our help to get fat on

> > grain and near starve on grass, (well ok they don't starve on it but

>

> > when you are use to fattening cattle on grain it seems they are) so

> here

> > we are.

> > I no longer have cattle that will fatten on grass in any reasonable

> time

> > frame, corn syrup has reduced my school system to a prison for

> minors,

> > and the people who come to me for advice have such reduced mental

> > capabilities they cannot comprehend what I am saying to them.

> > Yes your problems are related to what you eat, and no a pill won't

> fix

> > the situation, yes fat is good for you why do think that pie tastes

> so

> > good and I don't trim the fat off the steaks you by in my store.

> > We may be a post -Colombian society, but walk any mall and I think

> that

> > history is beginning to repeat itself

>

> Ummm...what breeds of cattle are you seeing that are unable to fatten

> on grass?

>

> We have Braunvieh, and many of them are notable exceptions.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>>>>We have 4 kinds of cows up here angus, hereford , holestien, semintal

and mixes of all the before mentioned. Oh and jersey.

But we only have 4 months of grass so I do what I can do.

I am looking for an animal that will do well and hereford looks like my

best option.

------->how about ish Highlanders? A farming couple in our local

chapter has them, and they are perfect for cold weather. they rarely ever go

inside, even during harsh winter weather, and they don't need grains in

general. these guys are not being milked yet, so I'm not sure if that would

change anything. but their diet is just grass, hay and some veggies and

apples from the farm.

also, remember that amusing story that Wanita told about a couple of SHs

getting lost for the winter around her area (western MA). then they showed

up the next spring, looking great!

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Suze,

>also, remember that amusing story that Wanita told about a couple of SHs

>getting lost for the winter around her area (western MA). then they showed

>up the next spring, looking great!

That was actually in New Hampshire. Even further north than me and closer to

you. They'll eat tree bark and brush. Full two year grown is around 800 lbs.

and the meat is leaner than other breeds I've heard. The guy who raises and

sells them in town didn't overwinter part of his herd around the corner this

winter like last. It was a long one and harsher than last. Herefords are whats

mostly seen around here. What I was brought up on mostly because it was my

Dad's favorite.

Another story. Apologies if its a repeat. Before I went to school we had a

bull

in the pasture. One day my mother saw my brother who is 13 months younger than

me in pasture pulling on the bull's nose ring saying " Come on you b*s*a*d " Mom

flew into the pasture. Apparently he'd seen Dad do it, snuck under the fence

and decided to imitate him. Dad got chewed out too that night.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

>But we only have 4 months of grass so I do what I can do.

>I am looking for an animal that will do well and hereford looks like my

>best option.

Have you looked at Longhorns? They seem to be really hardy and easy to

raise, though I don't raise cows myself. The meat is superb though, and I'm

told they do not like grain at all.

Heidi

[Guest guest]

>>>>>That was actually in New Hampshire. Even further north than me and

closer to you. They'll eat tree bark and brush. Full two year grown is

around 800 lbs. and the meat is leaner than other breeds I've heard.

--------->they are the coolest looking breed i've ever seen! I saw a bunch

of them last night because we had our pot luck at the farm i mentioned in a

previous post. they've got this big swatch of hair that hangs down right

over their eyes that oddly reminds me of a 70s shag-style haircut. LOL i

guess all that thick, long fur protects them well in winter.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

At 09:18 AM 5/10/03 -0400, Suze wrote:

>--------->they are the coolest looking breed i've ever seen! I saw a bunch

>of them last night because we had our pot luck at the farm i mentioned in a

>previous post. they've got this big swatch of hair that hangs down right

>over their eyes that oddly reminds me of a 70s shag-style haircut. LOL i

>guess all that thick, long fur protects them well in winter.

LOL....we call them hippie cows. Their body hair hanging off the sides reminds

me of musk ox or wooly mammoth. Mental visual not clear as to what other

mammal

has the same. Colors are nice in local herd, blonde, red and brunette.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

Here is an interesting page about the ish Highland breed of

cattle, including some photos.

http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/cattle/HIGHLAND/

[Guest guest]

> > http://www.braunvieh.ch/inh_ob_e.htm

> > http://www.braunvieh.com

> > http://www.braunvieh.com/texas/

> > http://www.missouribraunvieh.org/

> > http://www.braunvieh.org

> > http://www.bellrulegenetics.com/indexx.html

> > http://www.brownswiss.org.nz/

I found that other site I was thinking of:

http://www.originalbraunvieh.com

Those animals look the most like ours of any.