one more try

[Guest guest]

Yes, it is entirely up to you, what you decide to do in the end. In

the meantime however, I have to say that if those posts with the

studies of GSE were " Greek " to you, maybe it is not the right time to

be proceeding with lotion production.

With all due respect, the manufacturer has a very big stake in this,

your purchasing his product.

Please do some research on your own if you are tired of the people

" acting like they know what's best " . In some cases they actually do

because they have been where you are and have done tons of research

on the subject. Our businesses and product livelihoods are at stake

unless we know what we are doing, not to mention the health and well-

being of our customers who do not know a paraben from a grapefruit

seed and honestly don't care and take for granted that they are using

a safe product.

It's a very serious topic when you have people posting directly from

studies they've researched on the efficacy of a product, not

something to write off as people showing off how much they know and

that they know better than others. It's no longer about opinions

when customer safety is at stake, and if anyone is talking about

using Germaben or ANY preserving substance even GSE, and not getting

their products tested, shame on 'em.

respectfully,

sara

> Well, I thought I'd give it one more try. I read the " Greek "

letter that was posted on testing done on GSE. It prompted me to

call the manufacturer that I'm dealing with. Now mind you, this is

only one company, so I can't say what others are doing or what they

claim. I talked to one of the chemists and this is what he gave me.

They use NO parabens in their product. It's all natural.

Ingredients are: dry grapefruit seed powder, glycerin, acorbic acid,

dextrose, citrus bioflavanoids. Does it work as a preservative? He

said yes. Do I believe him? Yes, I do. So may say, " You fool " . I

say, my choice. If you want the name of the company and their phone

number to verify the information, I can email privately. I'm not

saying this is the only way to go. It's what I prefer. But I'm a

little tired of some acting like they know what's best and anything

else is ignorance. We're all entitled to our opinions. If you want

to use Germabin without getting your products tested, go ahead. Just

let me know so I won't buy any of your products. And by the same

token, I'm saying now I'll be using GSE and my products will carry

the FDA warning: the safety of this product has not been determined.

So if you don't want to buy what I sell, that's your choice too.

Respectfully, Deby

[Guest guest]

.. They use NO parabens in their product. It's all natural.

Ingredients are: dry grapefruit seed powder, glycerin, acorbic acid,

dextrose, citrus bioflavanoids.

This guy is probably teling you the truth, but realize that

parabens are not the only way to go - for instance they are not

allowed in Japan but they continue to preserve thier products. I do

know one preservetive expert who tells me it is because they use what

is called a " quats " solution, the stuff you see in barbers and

hairdressers put thier combs in.

I have listings here for literally over 500 presrvatives available

on the market as of this year.

I never had any intention of calling you a fool - chemistry is

*not* personal.

>ut I'm a little tired of some acting like they know what's best and

anything else is ignorance.

With the risk of sounding arrogant, (not meaning to), I do know in

this instance what is better and is why I willingly gave the

information. I hate that word " ignorance " it always seems to imply

with it " piggy " and nasty images - I know it is defined as not being

informed, and not being informed is not an insult - how many people

has studied chemistry?

ask yourself this: what in the world would make a dehydrated

grapefruit seed suddenly have the capeability of preserving anything

when in it's natural state, in a grapefruit, the fruit decays? Why

does rehydrating it change anything?

I have also noticed that your posts keep mentioning " toxic " .

This is a relative term, lots of things in life are toxic like

asprin, smoking, drinking booze, nitrates in meats - even standing

behind a bus exhaust - in enough amounts to " be " toxic.

I hope this helps to shed some light, but you seem to have your

heels dug in......no one is trying to be condecending or insulting,

just passing along clinical data.

Best regards,

Jen

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the advice. You made some good points, and I am trying to

research and understand what I read all the time. You got your point across

and very nicely too. It gets very difficult sometimes when so many are

saying read this, read this..... this is the right thing. I know the more

you read the more informed a decision you can make, but I think I'll wind up

with more than one migraine before I'm through. And have you noticed that

even scientists can't agree on what's good and what isn't? And 10 years or

less down the road, they will probably change their minds too. Guess I

can't be bothered with that right now, but it does give you pause to think.

No, I don't have my heals dug in. I just don't see that I have an

alternative, do you? Aside from not doing anything. And one reason I'm on

the list is to get other opinions. I don't mind that. Sometimes the

sarcasm does get a little thick and I guess I'm not the only one to notice

it. I'll read it all. And I probably won't reply to any more on this

subject simply because I feel the horse has been beaten enough. Deby

re: one more try

>

> . They use NO parabens in their product. It's all natural.

> Ingredients are: dry grapefruit seed powder, glycerin, acorbic acid,

> dextrose, citrus bioflavanoids.

>

> This guy is probably teling you the truth, but realize that

> parabens are not the only way to go - for instance they are not

> allowed in Japan but they continue to preserve thier products. I do

> know one preservetive expert who tells me it is because they use what

> is called a " quats " solution, the stuff you see in barbers and

> hairdressers put thier combs in.

> I have listings here for literally over 500 presrvatives available

> on the market as of this year.

> I never had any intention of calling you a fool - chemistry is

> *not* personal.

>

> >ut I'm a little tired of some acting like they know what's best and

> anything else is ignorance.

>

> With the risk of sounding arrogant, (not meaning to), I do know in

> this instance what is better and is why I willingly gave the

> information. I hate that word " ignorance " it always seems to imply

> with it " piggy " and nasty images - I know it is defined as not being

> informed, and not being informed is not an insult - how many people

> has studied chemistry?

> ask yourself this: what in the world would make a dehydrated

> grapefruit seed suddenly have the capeability of preserving anything

> when in it's natural state, in a grapefruit, the fruit decays? Why

> does rehydrating it change anything?

> I have also noticed that your posts keep mentioning " toxic " .

> This is a relative term, lots of things in life are toxic like

> asprin, smoking, drinking booze, nitrates in meats - even standing

> behind a bus exhaust - in enough amounts to " be " toxic.

> I hope this helps to shed some light, but you seem to have your

> heels dug in......no one is trying to be condecending or insulting,

> just passing along clinical data.

>

> Best regards,

>

> Jen

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Deby and all,

I agree completely. I've heard GSE is the greatest thing since sliced bread,

then I heard chemical preservatives are the only way to go. Then I hear

preservatives cause cancer.... add infinitum. I also remember when eating

eggs were bad for you. Then they were the " incredible edible egg " and good

for you. And caffeine was bad so everyone began drinking decaffeinated

coffee. Then the decaffeination process was even worse for you then the

caffeine was, so drinking regular coffee was better.

My point to all this is that some people may be right, some may be wrong.

But, we all are trying to do the right thing. I am a complete newbie and

from all this have decided not to sell lotions at all because of the trouble

it can cause. I appreciate the advice and hope everyone still feels

comfortable offering an opinion or a fact. I know that I am a little

intimated to ask some things because I don't want people thinking I'm an

idiot. But, I also feel that ignorance (the lack of knowledge) is not a

fault if you're trying to do something about it. Everyone has to learn

sometime. That is the point of this list: to share ideas and research and to

help each other other out. We can't all know what everyone else knows or we

wouldn't need this forum.

Thanks to everyone who offers kind-hearted advice and tips. Let's keep them

that way.

>

> Thank you for the advice. You made some good points, and I am trying to

> research and understand what I read all the time. You got your point across

> and very nicely too. It gets very difficult sometimes when so many are

> saying read this, read this..... this is the right thing. I know the more

> you read the more informed a decision you can make, but I think I'll wind up

> with more than one migraine before I'm through. And have you noticed that

> even scientists can't agree on what's good and what isn't? And 10 years or

> less down the road, they will probably change their minds too. Guess I

> can't be bothered with that right now, but it does give you pause to think.

> No, I don't have my heals dug in. I just don't see that I have an

> alternative, do you? Aside from not doing anything. And one reason I'm on

> the list is to get other opinions. I don't mind that. Sometimes the

> sarcasm does get a little thick and I guess I'm not the only one to notice

> it. I'll read it all. And I probably won't reply to any more on this

> subject simply because I feel the horse has been beaten enough. Deby

> re: one more try

>

>

>>

>> . They use NO parabens in their product. It's all natural.

>> Ingredients are: dry grapefruit seed powder, glycerin, acorbic acid,

>> dextrose, citrus bioflavanoids.

>>

>> This guy is probably teling you the truth, but realize that

>> parabens are not the only way to go - for instance they are not

>> allowed in Japan but they continue to preserve thier products. I do

>> know one preservetive expert who tells me it is because they use what

>> is called a " quats " solution, the stuff you see in barbers and

>> hairdressers put thier combs in.

>> I have listings here for literally over 500 presrvatives available

>> on the market as of this year.

>> I never had any intention of calling you a fool - chemistry is

>> *not* personal.

>>

>> >ut I'm a little tired of some acting like they know what's best and

>> anything else is ignorance.

>>

>> With the risk of sounding arrogant, (not meaning to), I do know in

>> this instance what is better and is why I willingly gave the

>> information. I hate that word " ignorance " it always seems to imply

>> with it " piggy " and nasty images - I know it is defined as not being

>> informed, and not being informed is not an insult - how many people

>> has studied chemistry?

>> ask yourself this: what in the world would make a dehydrated

>> grapefruit seed suddenly have the capeability of preserving anything

>> when in it's natural state, in a grapefruit, the fruit decays? Why

>> does rehydrating it change anything?

>> I have also noticed that your posts keep mentioning " toxic " .

>> This is a relative term, lots of things in life are toxic like

>> asprin, smoking, drinking booze, nitrates in meats - even standing

>> behind a bus exhaust - in enough amounts to " be " toxic.

>> I hope this helps to shed some light, but you seem to have your

>> heels dug in......no one is trying to be condecending or insulting,

>> just passing along clinical data.

>>

>> Best regards,

>>

>> Jen

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

,

I agree with you completely. For those that want to market lotion, there are

reputable companies out there that offer a lotion base that you can add scent

and color to. It has the preservative already added and takes away the worry

of bacteria. Granted, it won't be all natural but few things these days

truly are. But if you want to offer your customers a good lotion without the

headache, this is an alternative.

lynn

[Guest guest]

>From: lzcutter@...

>Subject: Re: re: one more try

>

>,

>I agree with you completely. For those that want to market lotion, there

>are

>reputable companies out there that offer a lotion base that you can add

>scent

>and color to. It has the preservative already added and takes away the

>worry

>of bacteria. Granted, it won't be all natural but few things these days

>truly are. But if you want to offer your customers a good lotion without

>the

>headache, this is an alternative.

>lynn

>

But of course, once you take ownership of this lotion, you are responsible

for it's microbial integrity.

Lucy

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[Guest guest]

Hi all my fingers have a mind of there own to day.

www.sphereproject.org

--

Dr.J.Sullivan

[Guest guest]

My understanding is the more starter you use, the more quickly the batch

will reach maturity. The starter contains more of the culture, just not in

scoby form yet. So yes, the larger scoby and more starter should have a

faster yield.

I don't have an answer to your other questions; both my scobys are young and

in use.

On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 8:12 AM, mlgstudy <mlgstudy@...> wrote:

> will the amount of starter, or the size of the scoby affect the time to

> desired product? (with kefir this is true but want to ck), hoping you can

> let me know if my assumptions are correct.

>

>

> my thought is that if the larger scoby produced something so wonderful in

> seven days with only 2 Tablespoons of starter, then in my current setup the

> the larger scoby with 1cup starter in a shorter amount of time. And of the

> two I have going Im am assuming that it would take longer before the smaller

> scoby with 1 cup starter is ready compared to the one with the larger scoby

> and the 1 cup starter.

>

> I am also wanting to know more about how to tell when a scoby is needing to

> be retired. and how to treat scobys in a hotel appropriately, would I find

> this in the files? or might someone just be willing to tell me?

>

> have a great day

> Meggan

>

>

[Guest guest]

I believe the size of the scoby and the amount of starter will affect how

quickly the brew finishes.

HOWEVER, do not ever go with only two TBSP of starter as you will get mold. The

sweet tea will not be acidic enough. You must use (for a gallon jar) at least

one cup of starter.

As for retiring a scoby, I believe I have heard that it gets " crumbly " sort

of...it starts to fall apart. I've retired scobies before their time and used

them, so I haven't gotten a crumbly one yet.

Warmly,

Velma

kombucha tea

From: mlgstudy@...

Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:12:57 +0000

Subject: one more try

ok so I thought Id try this again, even though I have seen questions

similar to mine I havent seen much in the way of answers. possibly they are

questions that are cover else where? because other questions have gotten

answered in the mean time. and Im just not sure if I should take it as everyone

is busy....or that I should be looking for answers elsewhere

will the amount of starter, or the size of the scoby affect the time to desired

product? (with kefir this is true but want to ck), hoping you can let me know if

my assumptions are correct.

my thought is that if the larger scoby produced something so wonderful in seven

days with only 2 Tablespoons of starter, then in my current setup the the larger

scoby with 1cup starter in a shorter amount of time. And of the two I have going

Im am assuming that it would take longer before the smaller scoby with 1 cup

starter is ready compared to the one with the larger scoby and the 1 cup

starter.

I am also wanting to know more about how to tell when a scoby is needing to be

retired. and how to treat scobys in a hotel appropriately, would I find this in

the files? or might someone just be willing to tell me?

have a great day

Meggan

[Guest guest]

thanks Velma, thanks Jenn

no mold when I accidentally did the two tablespoons (was over anxious about

being able to use itand forgot to put some aside before mixing in greens,

trying to get it like the gt daves green, didnt work) but it was in a half

gallon jar, with a really really large scoby. that's why why the question of

size and amount of starter came about.

thanks for the reply

Meg

On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 8:10 AM, Velma Gallant <momtoeric@...>wrote:

>

>

>

> I believe the size of the scoby and the amount of starter will affect how

> quickly the brew finishes.

>

> HOWEVER, do not ever go with only two TBSP of starter as you will get mold.

> The sweet tea will not be acidic enough. You must use (for a gallon jar) at

> least one cup of starter.

>

> As for retiring a scoby, I believe I have heard that it gets " crumbly " sort

> of...it starts to fall apart. I've retired scobies before their time and

> used them, so I haven't gotten a crumbly one yet.

>

> Warmly,

>

> Velma

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

thanks Velma, thanks Jenn

no mold when I accidentally did the two tablespoons (was over anxious about

being able to use itand forgot to put some aside before mixing in greens,

trying to get it like the gt daves green, didnt work) but it was in a half

gallon jar, with a really really large scoby. that's why why the question of

size and amount of starter came about.

thanks for the reply

Meg

On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 8:10 AM, Velma Gallant <momtoeric@...>wrote:

>

>

>

> I believe the size of the scoby and the amount of starter will affect how

> quickly the brew finishes.

>

> HOWEVER, do not ever go with only two TBSP of starter as you will get mold.

> The sweet tea will not be acidic enough. You must use (for a gallon jar) at

> least one cup of starter.

>

> As for retiring a scoby, I believe I have heard that it gets " crumbly " sort

> of...it starts to fall apart. I've retired scobies before their time and

> used them, so I haven't gotten a crumbly one yet.

>

> Warmly,

>

> Velma

>

>

>

>