Re: Fw: Fwd: ORE Part 2

[Guest guest]

Thank u anushka for your effort , it was a fantastic email,impressing!!!!

From:

Anushka Sharma <anishkaanushka@...>;

To:

< >;

Subject:

Fw: Fwd: ORE Part 2

Sent:

Fri, Feb 10, 2012 11:19:31 PM

Hi All,I have sent the following email to GDC and need everyone's support. I have seen until you do not push you do not get. If we have to suffer for all this then let these guys (GDC) make an appropriate reply. They just can not keep us in dark and rip us of as they want.Please write up your thoughts and in case you want me to communicate anything to GDC please feel free.Regards,Anushka ----- Forwarded

Message ----- From: UK Dentistry <overseasdentistry@...> anishkaanushka@... Sent: Friday, 10 February 2012, 23:14 Subject: Fwd: ORE Part 2 Hi,We need to take a stand guys.---------- Forwarded message ----------From: UK Dentistry <overseasdentistry@...>

Date: Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:02 PMSubject: Re: ORE Part 2 " Examinations (020 7009 2780) " <examinations@...>Dear ,Thanks for your reply, please find my comprehensive writeup below for which you have not answered.

1) If the exam fees is less then how much does GDC (General Dental Council) charges from UK national BDS Graduate studying in UK universities. We have not seen any graduate paying this kind of fees for a 3 day exam. We appreciate that you have not increased the fees but it is already too high for any candidate to pay. Also to contribute in this exam a candidate has to do various courses viz Royal college of surgeons, Eastman Institute. They also charge approximately £1000 for 3 days crash courses, this cost is again exorbitantly high. So in totality GDC earns a good chunk of money from various institutes. We wish you could share the actual exam costs v/s exam fees but we know you are going to say that it is confidential; again GDC (ORE-1 and ORE-2) fees is higher than GMC (General Medical Council) ( PLAB-1 and PLAB-2) fees.

We have got a query here, if the above mentioned colleges charge £1000 for 3 days then why GDC charges £2250 for 3 day exams? We are sorry to say that your explanation is not quite right!2) The passing percentage of this exam is dreadful. Please can you comment on the same. The more candidates you fail then more money GDC (General Dental Council) can earn from this activity. It is as simple as that.

For GMC (General Medical Council) UK government gets the Non EU doctors and processes their registration numbers for free i.e. without conducting any exams. My query is why GDC doesn't follow the same pattern. As from one country, UK is getting doctors but the logic behind not getting the dentists is not clear. Please can you explain? For candidates who have not passed in examinations have to pay high fees every time. The dentists will serve the country as like doctors so why there is difference in treatment.

3) Now moving on to booking method EPAY. It is just not right. You have not answered that why you don't follow the same system for A-Levels and GCSE's? Yesterday, we logged on to the system at 14:00 hours and at 14:30:30 the seats were filled in. Just in 30 seconds? So where is first come first serve basis? It is not a cattle market where you let 800 odd people to go and sit on 100 seats. Please look into the system as people who are waiting for an year or two still have to wait. We think your previous system was better where you sent invite to only 100 people (on waiting list) and if the seats were not filled in you move on to the next lot based on how long that candidate has been waiting for the exam. Improvement has to be there.

4) The reason you have backlog is you never conducted exams last year and the passing percentage was too low. 5) The fair and explicit refers to a policy common for all students. If this exam has to be there then UK National BDS graduates must be entitled and undergo same exam. No matter if you are of different race the policy has to be same. If you say it is same then kindly split this exam with 50% students ( Studying Dentistry in UK) and 50% students (giving this ORE Exam). The standards has to be equal for all candidates. Can you implement this change?

This email is self explainatory and the language which we are using is simple and understandable. Therefore, we request you to answer each of our queries in a proper manner as we candidates are really annoyed with the standards set out by GDC for overseas candidates; this seems xenophobic to us. And we would like to complaint against the standards.

We wish you could be in our situation so you would have understood our point of view, where you need to dole out such a huge amount of money and the complete process is so stressful and frustrating.Being dentists, our prime motto is to help and support patients that is what we are taught in our education. So please make GDC an organisation which proudely serves for a right cause. Kindly treat us overseas dentists in a better way and not as the way you treat us currently!

We want resolutions with what improvements GDC can do, we need clear and proper replies as we are the sufferers!Regards,Overseas Dentists Group

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Examinations (020 7009 2780) <examinations@...> wrote:

Dear Sir/Madam

Since the last Part 2 exam was held 7-10 April 2011 we have held one Part 1 exam in August 2011. We do not profit from the ORE, it costs more to run the exam than we charge in fees (the fee has remained the same since 2007).

The ePay system does not allow candidates progress through the system if all the places have already been allocated. In this instance the system is not crashing or disorganised, it is preventing the candidates from entering payment details into the system when there are no further places available.

The GDC has a regulatory responsibility to ensure that overseas qualified dentists meet the standard of a 'just passed' UK BDS graduate. The ORE is designed for this purpose and is overseen by our own external examiners.

I am unclear what you mean by the absence on a fair and explicit ORE policy. If you are able to elucidate I will attempt to answer you.

I have tried to pick out the questions in your email below but if I have missed anything please get back to me.

Yours faithfully

Davies

Exams Team Manager

General Dental Council

Tel: +44 (0) 20 7009 2775

Fax: +44 (0) 20 7009 2748

Email: jdavies@...

Web: www.gdc-uk.org

GDC| Protecting patients, regulating the dental team

SAVE PAPER - Please do not print this e-mail unless absolutely necessary

What a shame (exam booking in GDC- UK)

Dear GDC Exam Team,

I hope you won't treat this email as first come first basis. Kindly give it the priority as I have lost my patience and can not overcome my stress levels! Your new system is like Who wants to be a millionaire! Let us play fastest fingers first.

Is this booking method real or virtual? Last time I tried to login for booking March exam and I could not get through, today I tried again for May exam but no joy. When I try to reach you then you easily say there are 800 people in waiting so better luck next time. There is no empathy, in ORE exam we are advised that you have to show sympathy for a concern otherwise we deduct marks. I wish we could rank you too.

You have surely been to school or college's in UK? Please advise, was this the method adopted for booking, GCSE's or A-levels? I suggest you must request the education minister to follow your said pattern of first come first serve basis.

Secondly, I see the system for ORE is Xenophobic. Why there is different rules and regulations for dentists studying in UK. We must have a fair and clear policy for all. After all we live in a social world and UK itself means United Kingdom. Where people live unitedly.

The method should be clear/ explicit for all people i.e. rich and poor.

I have a plan, please get 50% students ( Studying Dentistry in UK) and 50% students (giving this ORE Exam). Let us imply this as it will be a fair policy. Isn't it?

I am a most civilised person but this exam system has checked my patience.

Firstly, the exams were not open for a year which led to too many people in pipeline; since you still conducted part-1 to make money.

Now again you will get more ORE part-1 candidates in this and the waiting list for ORE part 2 candidates will increase gradually. Please do not be a money minting institute. After all it is hard earned money for which we pay tax to government.

Then after a good wait, it comes to that very moment where we get email from GDC that we are opening exams for part-2. Since morning you wait for this very moment and then you realise that there is nothing in your EPAY system. It is one of the most unorganised site I have ever been to! I think you may have seen that movie (gone in 30 seconds). That is what I feel when you publish the exam dates. Booking exam is just a joke.

Please let me know what action plans you propose for us as we are the sufferers where the exam fees is £2250 and to sit in this exam you have to spend another few 5 grands from your pocket. The results are too shabby that you need a lot of courage as the passing percentage is mear 8%~35%. I have studied from very well reputed college and when I sat in ORE it was just not right!

Please let me know what you can do to overcome this and what improvement methods you can opt for " FAIR AND EXPLICIT POLICY " for all overseas dentists.

In case I have to cascade this to any MP please feel free to write it to me.

Regards,

Overseas Dentists Group

If you have received this email in error please read on:

The material transmitted in this email and attachments is intended only

for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed and may contain

confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended

recipient, or the message contains information relating to a third party

apparently included in error, please do not review, re transmit, share,

disclose, print, store or take any action in reliance on its contents in

any way whatsoever.

If you receive this email in error, please contact the sender on

telephone number 020 7887 3800, delete the material from any computer

and destroy any copies made, alternatively email

mailto:Information@...

Communications transmitted over the Internet are not always secure. The

process of transmission may have infected the message and its contents

with a computer virus or other malware. The General Dental Council will

not accept any responsibility whatsoever for damage caused to the

recipient's computer systems when the message or contents are opened.

SUPPLIERS: For important changes to the General Dental Council’s

ordering arrangements, please consult the suppliers page on the GDC

website at this address -

http://www.gdc-uk.org/Partner+organisation/Suppliers.htm

[Guest guest]

Hi AnushkaAlso can you add that new guidance is ridiculous!!It meant to fail people other than help.They add extra exersices but the time did not change,e,g,taking a history-10 min as previously,but now written notes will be checked and marked!!!!!There is no time for that!Who did practice-please rise your voice and send to GDCI will send another letter I really want to see how someone(BDS graduate) within 10 mins make notes and take a full dental history.Is it like in surgeries?No it is not!!!New manikin exercises-again extra courses-I already do not have anything in my fridge apart from water and bread,unbelivable.When I think to book the exam I am

terified not to get any seats ..never....... From: Anushka Sharma <anishkaanushka@...> " " < > Sent: Friday, 10 February 2012, 23:19 Subject: Fw: Fwd: ORE Part 2

Hi All,I have sent the following email to GDC and need everyone's support. I have seen until you do not push you do not get. If we have to suffer for all this then let these guys (GDC) make an appropriate reply. They just can not keep us in dark and rip us of as they want.Please write up your thoughts and in case you want me to communicate anything to GDC please feel free.Regards,Anushka ----- Forwarded

Message ----- From: UK Dentistry <overseasdentistry@...> anishkaanushka@... Sent: Friday, 10 February 2012, 23:14 Subject: Fwd: ORE Part 2 Hi,We need to take a stand guys.---------- Forwarded message ----------From: UK Dentistry <overseasdentistry@...>

Date: Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:02 PMSubject: Re: ORE Part 2"Examinations (020 7009 2780)" <examinations@...>Dear ,Thanks for your reply, please find my comprehensive writeup below for which you have not answered.

1) If the exam fees is less then how much does GDC (General Dental Council) charges from UK national BDS Graduate studying in UK universities. We have not seen any graduate paying this kind of fees for a 3 day exam. We appreciate that you have not increased the fees but it is already too high for any candidate to pay. Also to contribute in this exam a candidate has to do various courses viz Royal college of surgeons, Eastman Institute. They also charge approximately £1000 for 3 days crash courses, this cost is again exorbitantly high. So in totality GDC earns a good chunk of money from various institutes. We wish you could share the actual exam costs v/s exam fees but we know you are going to say that it is confidential; again GDC (ORE-1 and ORE-2) fees is higher than GMC (General Medical Council) ( PLAB-1 and PLAB-2) fees.

We have got a query here, if the above mentioned colleges charge £1000 for 3 days then why GDC charges £2250 for 3 day exams? We are sorry to say that your explanation is not quite right!2) The passing percentage of this exam is dreadful. Please can you comment on the same. The more candidates you fail then more money GDC (General Dental Council) can earn from this activity. It is as simple as that.

For GMC (General Medical Council) UK government gets the Non EU doctors and processes their registration numbers for free i.e. without conducting any exams. My query is why GDC doesn't follow the same pattern. As from one country, UK is getting doctors but the logic behind not getting the dentists is not clear. Please can you explain? For candidates who have not passed in examinations have to pay high fees every time. The dentists will serve the country as like doctors so why there is difference in treatment.

3) Now moving on to booking method EPAY. It is just not right. You have not answered that why you don't follow the same system for A-Levels and GCSE's? Yesterday, we logged on to the system at 14:00 hours and at 14:30:30 the seats were filled in. Just in 30 seconds? So where is first come first serve basis? It is not a cattle market where you let 800 odd people to go and sit on 100 seats. Please look into the system as people who are waiting for an year or two still have to wait. We think your previous system was better where you sent invite to only 100 people (on waiting list) and if the seats were not filled in you move on to the next lot based on how long that candidate has been waiting for the exam. Improvement has to be there.

4) The reason you have backlog is you never conducted exams last year and the passing percentage was too low. 5) The fair and explicit refers to a policy common for all students. If this exam has to be there then UK National BDS graduates must be entitled and undergo same exam. No matter if you are of different race the policy has to be same. If you say it is same then kindly split this exam with 50% students ( Studying Dentistry in UK) and 50% students (giving this ORE Exam). The standards has to be equal for all candidates. Can you implement this change?

This email is self explainatory and the language which we are using is simple and understandable. Therefore, we request you to answer each of our queries in a proper manner as we candidates are really annoyed with the standards set out by GDC for overseas candidates; this seems xenophobic to us. And we would like to complaint against the standards.

We wish you could be in our situation so you would have understood our point of view, where you need to dole out such a huge amount of money and the complete process is so stressful and frustrating.Being dentists, our prime motto is to help and support patients that is what we are taught in our education. So please make GDC an organisation which proudely serves for a right cause. Kindly treat us overseas dentists in a better way and not as the way you treat us currently!

We want resolutions with what improvements GDC can do, we need clear and proper replies as we are the sufferers!Regards,Overseas Dentists Group

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Examinations (020 7009 2780) <examinations@...> wrote:

Dear Sir/Madam

Since the last Part 2 exam was held 7-10 April 2011 we have held one Part 1 exam in August 2011. We do not profit from the ORE, it costs more to run the exam than we charge in fees (the fee has remained the same since 2007).

The ePay system does not allow candidates progress through the system if all the places have already been allocated. In this instance the system is not crashing or disorganised, it is preventing the candidates from entering payment details into the system when there are no further places available.

The GDC has a regulatory responsibility to ensure that overseas qualified dentists meet the standard of a 'just passed' UK BDS graduate. The ORE is designed for this purpose and is overseen by our own external examiners.

I am unclear what you mean by the absence on a fair and explicit ORE policy. If you are able to elucidate I will attempt to answer you.

I have tried to pick out the questions in your email below but if I have missed anything please get back to me.

Yours faithfully

Davies

Exams Team Manager

General Dental Council

Tel: +44 (0) 20 7009 2775

Fax: +44 (0) 20 7009 2748

Email: jdavies@...

Web: www.gdc-uk.org

GDC| Protecting patients, regulating the dental team

SAVE PAPER - Please do not print this e-mail unless absolutely necessary

What a shame (exam booking in GDC- UK)

Dear GDC Exam Team,

I hope you won't treat this email as first come first basis. Kindly give it the priority as I have lost my patience and can not overcome my stress levels! Your new system is like Who wants to be a millionaire! Let us play fastest fingers first.

Is this booking method real or virtual? Last time I tried to login for booking March exam and I could not get through, today I tried again for May exam but no joy. When I try to reach you then you easily say there are 800 people in waiting so better luck next time. There is no empathy, in ORE exam we are advised that you have to show sympathy for a concern otherwise we deduct marks. I wish we could rank you too.

You have surely been to school or college's in UK? Please advise, was this the method adopted for booking, GCSE's or A-levels? I suggest you must request the education minister to follow your said pattern of first come first serve basis.

Secondly, I see the system for ORE is Xenophobic. Why there is different rules and regulations for dentists studying in UK. We must have a fair and clear policy for all. After all we live in a social world and UK itself means United Kingdom. Where people live unitedly.

The method should be clear/ explicit for all people i.e. rich and poor.

I have a plan, please get 50% students ( Studying Dentistry in UK) and 50% students (giving this ORE Exam). Let us imply this as it will be a fair policy. Isn't it?

I am a most civilised person but this exam system has checked my patience.

Firstly, the exams were not open for a year which led to too many people in pipeline; since you still conducted part-1 to make money.

Now again you will get more ORE part-1 candidates in this and the waiting list for ORE part 2 candidates will increase gradually. Please do not be a money minting institute. After all it is hard earned money for which we pay tax to government.

Then after a good wait, it comes to that very moment where we get email from GDC that we are opening exams for part-2. Since morning you wait for this very moment and then you realise that there is nothing in your EPAY system. It is one of the most unorganised site I have ever been to! I think you may have seen that movie (gone in 30 seconds). That is what I feel when you publish the exam dates. Booking exam is just a joke.

Please let me know what action plans you propose for us as we are the sufferers where the exam fees is £2250 and to sit in this exam you have to spend another few 5 grands from your pocket. The results are too shabby that you need a lot of courage as the passing percentage is mear 8%~35%. I have studied from very well reputed college and when I sat in ORE it was just not right!

Please let me know what you can do to overcome this and what improvement methods you can opt for "FAIR AND EXPLICIT POLICY" for all overseas dentists.

In case I have to cascade this to any MP please feel free to write it to me.

Regards,

Overseas Dentists Group

If you have received this email in error please read on:

The material transmitted in this email and attachments is intended only

for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed and may contain

confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended

recipient, or the message contains information relating to a third party

apparently included in error, please do not review, re transmit, share,

disclose, print, store or take any action in reliance on its contents in

any way whatsoever.

If you receive this email in error, please contact the sender on

telephone number 020 7887 3800, delete the material from any computer

and destroy any copies made, alternatively email

mailto:Information@...

Communications transmitted over the Internet are not always secure. The

process of transmission may have infected the message and its contents

with a computer virus or other malware. The General Dental Council will

not accept any responsibility whatsoever for damage caused to the

recipient's computer systems when the message or contents are opened.

SUPPLIERS: For important changes to the General Dental Council’s

ordering arrangements, please consult the suppliers page on the GDC

website at this address -

http://www.gdc-uk.org/Partner+organisation/Suppliers.htm

[Guest guest]

Thanku sooooooooo much for your effort you spoke everybody's heart. Lets hope anything would chanege..........

Dear Sir/MadamSince the last Part 2 exam was held 7-10 April 2011 we have held one Part 1 exam in August 2011. We do not profit from the ORE, it costs more to run the exam than we charge in fees (the fee has remained the same since 2007).The ePay system does not allow candidates progress through the system if all the places have already been allocated. In this instance the system is not crashing or disorganised, it is preventing the candidates from entering payment details into the system when there are no further places available.The GDC has a regulatory responsibility to ensure that overseas qualified dentists meet the standard of a 'just passed' UK BDS graduate. The ORE is designed for this purpose and is overseen by our own external examiners.I am unclear what you mean by the absence on a fair and explicit ORE policy. If you

are able to elucidate I will attempt to answer you.I have tried to pick out the questions in your email below but if I have missed anything please get back to me.Yours faithfully DaviesExams Team ManagerGeneral Dental CouncilTel: +44 (0) 20 7009 2775Fax: +44 (0) 20 7009 2748Email: jdavies@...Web: www.gdc-uk.org GDC| Protecting patients, regulating the dental teamSAVE PAPER - Please do not print this e-mail unless absolutely necessary-----Original Message-----From: UK Dentistry [mailto:overseasdentistry@...]Sent: 09 February 2012 17:08Examinations (020 7009 2780)Cc: ; info@...Subject: What a

shame (exam booking in GDC- UK)Dear GDC Exam Team,I hope you won't treat this email as first come first basis. Kindly give it the priority as I have lost my patience and can not overcome my stress levels! Your new system is like Who wants to be a millionaire! Let us play fastest fingers first.Is this booking method real or virtual? Last time I tried to login for booking March exam and I could not get through, today I tried again for May exam but no joy. When I try to reach you then you easily say there are 800 people in waiting so better luck next time. There is no empathy, in ORE exam we are advised that you have to show sympathy for a concern otherwise we deduct marks. I wish we could rank you too.You have surely been to school or college's in UK? Please advise, was this the method adopted for booking, GCSE's or A-levels? I suggest you must request the education minister to follow your said pattern of first come first

serve basis.Secondly, I see the system for ORE is Xenophobic. Why there is different rules and regulations for dentists studying in UK. We must have a fair and clear policy for all. After all we live in a social world and UK itself means United Kingdom. Where people live unitedly.The method should be clear/ explicit for all people i.e. rich and poor.I have a plan, please get 50% students ( Studying Dentistry in UK) and 50% students (giving this ORE Exam). Let us imply this as it will be a fair policy. Isn't it?I am a most civilised person but this exam system has checked my patience.Firstly, the exams were not open for a year which led to too many people in pipeline; since you still conducted part-1 to make money.Now again you will get more ORE part-1 candidates in this and the waiting list for ORE part 2 candidates will increase gradually. Please do not be a money minting institute. After all it is hard earned

money for which we pay tax to government.Then after a good wait, it comes to that very moment where we get email from GDC that we are opening exams for part-2. Since morning you wait for this very moment and then you realise that there is nothing in your EPAY system. It is one of the most unorganised site I have ever been to! I think you may have seen that movie (gone in 30 seconds). That is what I feel when you publish the exam dates. Booking exam is just a joke.Please let me know what action plans you propose for us as we are the sufferers where the exam fees is £2250 and to sit in this exam you have to spend another few 5 grands from your pocket. The results are too shabby that you need a lot of courage as the passing percentage is mear 8%~35%. I have studied from very well reputed college and when I sat in ORE it was just not right!Please let me know what you can do to overcome this and what improvement methods you can opt

for "FAIR AND EXPLICIT POLICY" for all overseas dentists.In case I have to cascade this to any MP please feel free to write it to me.Regards,Overseas Dentists GroupIf you have received this email in error please read on:The material transmitted in this email and attachments is intended onlyfor the person or organisation to whom it is addressed and may containconfidential and privileged information. If you are not the intendedrecipient, or the message contains information relating to a third partyapparently included in error, please do not review, re transmit, share,disclose, print, store or take any action in reliance on its contents inany way whatsoever.If you receive this email in error, please contact the sender ontelephone number 020 7887 3800, delete the material from any computerand destroy any copies made, alternatively emailmailto:Information@...Communications transmitted over the Internet are not always secure. Theprocess of transmission may have infected the message and its contentswith a computer virus or other malware. The General Dental Council willnot accept any responsibility whatsoever for damage caused to therecipient's computer systems when the message or contents are opened.SUPPLIERS: For important changes to the General Dental Council’sordering arrangements, please consult the suppliers page on the GDCwebsite at this address -http://www.gdc-uk.org/Partner+organisation/Suppliers.htm

[Guest guest]

Hi Anushka, can you please stress more on the EU dentists not being asked to take any of these exams rather than pointing at UK qualified ones. GDC fails in its very first motto of protecting the patients when they cant even be bothered to test EU dentists for their language skills which are in most cases must worse than what we all can deliver (although they keep saying its up to a PCT to conduct such tests and they are not mandatory at the moment). Also please in your next email to them, request releasing the remaining booking slots before the next exam results are out so that everyone gets a fair chance of giving the exams.I did send

them an email about the booking fiasco and the reply I got is pasted below in the non highlighted section. Please have a look. Many of them just read these emails and do not contribute, that is where the unity falters.Dear Mr Khader I am sorry to hear that you were unsuccessful in booking a place yesterday. You are not doing anything wrong it is just that there are 800-plus people trying to book 100 places. As soon as the exam places go you will not be able to see the diet date on the ePay system – it is

therefore likely that whilst your page was refreshing the places went as they did go extremely quickly. We have no plans to go back to the waiting list system which penalised candidates who were unable to take up the invitation of a place at an exam. At present we use the on-line booking system on ePay and this is only available on a first come first served basis. We continuously aim to improve our service and any future improvements to the system will be advertised, in advance, on our website. For candidates who are approaching their five year expiry date we have a procedure in place whereby they have priority booking in up to three exam diets (subject to their maximum number of four) during the preceding 9 month period. We will be in contact with you when you are eligible for priority booking. In the meantime we have six exams scheduled this year and we will attempt to schedule up to 10 exams next year in order to reduce the waiting list. We will advise candidates via the ORE Latest Information page how many cancellations we have for the March and May exams in due course and when we will reopen these places for booking. Yours sincerely DaviesExams Team ManagerGeneral Dental Council Tel: +44 (0) 20 7009 2775 Fax: +44 (0) 20 7009 2748 Email: jdavies@...Web: www.gdc-uk.org GDC| Protecting patients, regulating the dental team SAVE PAPER - Please do not print this e-mail unless absolutely necessary From: A Khader [mailto:abdul_ke@...] Sent: 09 February 2012 17:08Examinations (020 7009 2780)Subject: Part 2 ORE Booking issues Dear Sir / Madam, I am writing to express my concern about the unfair GDC booking system for the ORE part 2 exams. I have tried booking a slot for the March exam and then after a failed attempt for that slot, I failed to book the slot for May exam as well. The thing is despite the fact that I was sat in front of computer checking the booking open every second didn't help it either because I didn't even see a link for booking open for me on these two occasions which makes me think that the slot is opened only for selected candidates. It is is very unfair on your side to just open 100 places for almost 800 of the candidates waiting. The reason for such a mess is the fact that GDC didn't conduct exams for nearly an year and that

caused the current back log of candidates. Now, if you would have taken that into consideration and introduced more exams for this year or more places on the exams, the problem would have been settled to a large extent. As it is the whole process of giving these exams like any exam itself is very stressful and things like these make it more stressful for all of us candidates.I kindly request you to look into all this and come up with solution in regard to booking to make matters easy for us and for you as well. I would also kindly request you to look into opening more exam dates for this year or allotting more places in exams and also to open bookings for the remaining part 2 exams this year before the next part 1 and part 2 results so that everyone gets an equal chance of being included and giving the exam. Kindly treat this matter as urgent and take necessary steps to help us take and

finish with the exams at the earliest. Thank you. Kind regards,A Khader From: Anushka Sharma

<anishkaanushka@...> " " < > Sent: Friday, 10 February 2012, 23:19 Subject: Fw: Fwd: ORE Part 2

Hi All,I have sent the following email to GDC and need everyone's support. I have seen until you do not push you do not get. If we have to suffer for all this then let these guys (GDC) make an appropriate reply. They just can not keep us in dark and rip us of as they want.Please write up your thoughts and in case you want me to communicate anything to GDC please feel free.Regards,Anushka ----- Forwarded

Message ----- From: UK Dentistry <overseasdentistry@...> anishkaanushka@... Sent: Friday, 10 February 2012, 23:14 Subject: Fwd: ORE Part 2 Hi,We need to take a stand guys.---------- Forwarded message ----------From: UK Dentistry <overseasdentistry@...>

Date: Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:02 PMSubject: Re: ORE Part 2"Examinations (020 7009 2780)" <examinations@...>Dear ,Thanks for your reply, please find my comprehensive writeup below for which you have not answered.

1) If the exam fees is less then how much does GDC (General Dental Council) charges from UK national BDS Graduate studying in UK universities. We have not seen any graduate paying this kind of fees for a 3 day exam. We appreciate that you have not increased the fees but it is already too high for any candidate to pay. Also to contribute in this exam a candidate has to do various courses viz Royal college of surgeons, Eastman Institute. They also charge approximately £1000 for 3 days crash courses, this cost is again exorbitantly high. So in totality GDC earns a good chunk of money from various institutes. We wish you could share the actual exam costs v/s exam fees but we know you are going to say that it is confidential; again GDC (ORE-1 and ORE-2) fees is higher than GMC (General Medical Council) ( PLAB-1 and PLAB-2) fees.

We have got a query here, if the above mentioned colleges charge £1000 for 3 days then why GDC charges £2250 for 3 day exams? We are sorry to say that your explanation is not quite right!2) The passing percentage of this exam is dreadful. Please can you comment on the same. The more candidates you fail then more money GDC (General Dental Council) can earn from this activity. It is as simple as that.

For GMC (General Medical Council) UK government gets the Non EU doctors and processes their registration numbers for free i.e. without conducting any exams. My query is why GDC doesn't follow the same pattern. As from one country, UK is getting doctors but the logic behind not getting the dentists is not clear. Please can you explain? For candidates who have not passed in examinations have to pay high fees every time. The dentists will serve the country as like doctors so why there is difference in treatment.

3) Now moving on to booking method EPAY. It is just not right. You have not answered that why you don't follow the same system for A-Levels and GCSE's? Yesterday, we logged on to the system at 14:00 hours and at 14:30:30 the seats were filled in. Just in 30 seconds? So where is first come first serve basis? It is not a cattle market where you let 800 odd people to go and sit on 100 seats. Please look into the system as people who are waiting for an year or two still have to wait. We think your previous system was better where you sent invite to only 100 people (on waiting list) and if the seats were not filled in you move on to the next lot based on how long that candidate has been waiting for the exam. Improvement has to be there.

4) The reason you have backlog is you never conducted exams last year and the passing percentage was too low. 5) The fair and explicit refers to a policy common for all students. If this exam has to be there then UK National BDS graduates must be entitled and undergo same exam. No matter if you are of different race the policy has to be same. If you say it is same then kindly split this exam with 50% students ( Studying Dentistry in UK) and 50% students (giving this ORE Exam). The standards has to be equal for all candidates. Can you implement this change?

This email is self explainatory and the language which we are using is simple and understandable. Therefore, we request you to answer each of our queries in a proper manner as we candidates are really annoyed with the standards set out by GDC for overseas candidates; this seems xenophobic to us. And we would like to complaint against the standards.

We wish you could be in our situation so you would have understood our point of view, where you need to dole out such a huge amount of money and the complete process is so stressful and frustrating.Being dentists, our prime motto is to help and support patients that is what we are taught in our education. So please make GDC an organisation which proudely serves for a right cause. Kindly treat us overseas dentists in a better way and not as the way you treat us currently!

We want resolutions with what improvements GDC can do, we need clear and proper replies as we are the sufferers!Regards,Overseas Dentists Group

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Examinations (020 7009 2780) <examinations@...> wrote:

Dear Sir/Madam

Since the last Part 2 exam was held 7-10 April 2011 we have held one Part 1 exam in August 2011. We do not profit from the ORE, it costs more to run the exam than we charge in fees (the fee has remained the same since 2007).

The ePay system does not allow candidates progress through the system if all the places have already been allocated. In this instance the system is not crashing or disorganised, it is preventing the candidates from entering payment details into the system when there are no further places available.

The GDC has a regulatory responsibility to ensure that overseas qualified dentists meet the standard of a 'just passed' UK BDS graduate. The ORE is designed for this purpose and is overseen by our own external examiners.

I am unclear what you mean by the absence on a fair and explicit ORE policy. If you are able to elucidate I will attempt to answer you.

I have tried to pick out the questions in your email below but if I have missed anything please get back to me.

Yours faithfully

Davies

Exams Team Manager

General Dental Council

Tel: +44 (0) 20 7009 2775

Fax: +44 (0) 20 7009 2748

Email: jdavies@...

Web: www.gdc-uk.org

GDC| Protecting patients, regulating the dental team

SAVE PAPER - Please do not print this e-mail unless absolutely necessary

What a shame (exam booking in GDC- UK)

Dear GDC Exam Team,

I hope you won't treat this email as first come first basis. Kindly give it the priority as I have lost my patience and can not overcome my stress levels! Your new system is like Who wants to be a millionaire! Let us play fastest fingers first.

Is this booking method real or virtual? Last time I tried to login for booking March exam and I could not get through, today I tried again for May exam but no joy. When I try to reach you then you easily say there are 800 people in waiting so better luck next time. There is no empathy, in ORE exam we are advised that you have to show sympathy for a concern otherwise we deduct marks. I wish we could rank you too.

You have surely been to school or college's in UK? Please advise, was this the method adopted for booking, GCSE's or A-levels? I suggest you must request the education minister to follow your said pattern of first come first serve basis.

Secondly, I see the system for ORE is Xenophobic. Why there is different rules and regulations for dentists studying in UK. We must have a fair and clear policy for all. After all we live in a social world and UK itself means United Kingdom. Where people live unitedly.

The method should be clear/ explicit for all people i.e. rich and poor.

I have a plan, please get 50% students ( Studying Dentistry in UK) and 50% students (giving this ORE Exam). Let us imply this as it will be a fair policy. Isn't it?

I am a most civilised person but this exam system has checked my patience.

Firstly, the exams were not open for a year which led to too many people in pipeline; since you still conducted part-1 to make money.

Now again you will get more ORE part-1 candidates in this and the waiting list for ORE part 2 candidates will increase gradually. Please do not be a money minting institute. After all it is hard earned money for which we pay tax to government.

Then after a good wait, it comes to that very moment where we get email from GDC that we are opening exams for part-2. Since morning you wait for this very moment and then you realise that there is nothing in your EPAY system. It is one of the most unorganised site I have ever been to! I think you may have seen that movie (gone in 30 seconds). That is what I feel when you publish the exam dates. Booking exam is just a joke.

Please let me know what action plans you propose for us as we are the sufferers where the exam fees is £2250 and to sit in this exam you have to spend another few 5 grands from your pocket. The results are too shabby that you need a lot of courage as the passing percentage is mear 8%~35%. I have studied from very well reputed college and when I sat in ORE it was just not right!

Please let me know what you can do to overcome this and what improvement methods you can opt for "FAIR AND EXPLICIT POLICY" for all overseas dentists.

In case I have to cascade this to any MP please feel free to write it to me.

Regards,

Overseas Dentists Group

If you have received this email in error please read on:

The material transmitted in this email and attachments is intended only

for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed and may contain

confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended

recipient, or the message contains information relating to a third party

apparently included in error, please do not review, re transmit, share,

disclose, print, store or take any action in reliance on its contents in

any way whatsoever.

If you receive this email in error, please contact the sender on

telephone number 020 7887 3800, delete the material from any computer

and destroy any copies made, alternatively email

mailto:Information@...

Communications transmitted over the Internet are not always secure. The

process of transmission may have infected the message and its contents

with a computer virus or other malware. The General Dental Council will

not accept any responsibility whatsoever for damage caused to the

recipient's computer systems when the message or contents are opened.

SUPPLIERS: For important changes to the General Dental Council’s

ordering arrangements, please consult the suppliers page on the GDC

website at this address -

http://www.gdc-uk.org/Partner+organisation/Suppliers.htm

[Guest guest]

hi anushka, i highly appreciate your attempt.

i am preparing for the part1 exam, and i know this very well dat after passing

the exam i will be under the same situation as u guyz are ...

and i completely support all those waiting to sit in the part 2 exam.

[Guest guest]

Hi all,yes I agree with Khader EU people are not tested for UK equivalence they directly give performer number and they struggle to communicate with the patients which is not at all noticed by GDC.We have to definitely make them aware of this. They keep telling about professionalism and around 40% of dentists in UK are from EU countries who cannot speak english.ThanksSiva From: A Khader

<abdul_ke@...> " " < > Sent: Saturday, 11 February 2012 12:05 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Fwd: ORE Part 2

Hi Anushka, can you please stress more on the EU dentists not being asked to take any of these exams rather than pointing at UK qualified ones. GDC fails in its very first motto of protecting the patients when they cant even be bothered to test EU dentists for their language skills which are in most cases must worse than what we all can deliver (although they keep saying its up to a PCT to conduct such tests and they are not mandatory at the moment). Also please in your next email to them, request releasing the remaining booking slots before the next exam results are out so that everyone gets a fair chance of giving the exams.I did send

them an email about the booking fiasco and the reply I got is pasted below in the non highlighted section. Please have a look. Many of them just read these emails and do not contribute, that is where the unity falters.Dear Mr Khader I am sorry to hear that you were unsuccessful in booking a place yesterday. You are not doing anything wrong it is just that there are 800-plus people trying to book 100 places. As soon as the exam places go you will not be able to see the diet date on the ePay system – it is

therefore likely that whilst your page was refreshing the places went as they did go extremely quickly. We have no plans to go back to the waiting list system which penalised candidates who were unable to take up the invitation of a place at an exam. At present we use the on-line booking system on ePay and this is only available on a first come first served basis. We continuously aim to improve our service and any future improvements to the system will be advertised, in advance, on our website. For candidates who are approaching their five year expiry date we have a procedure in place whereby they have priority booking in up to three exam diets (subject to their maximum number of four) during the preceding 9 month period. We will be in contact with you when

you are eligible for priority booking. In the meantime we have six exams scheduled this year and we will attempt to schedule up to 10 exams next year in order to reduce the waiting list. We will advise candidates via the ORE Latest Information page how many cancellations we have for the March and May exams in due course and when we will reopen these places for booking. Yours sincerely DaviesExams Team

ManagerGeneral Dental Council Tel: +44 (0) 20 7009 2775 Fax: +44 (0) 20 7009 2748 Email: jdavies@...Web: www.gdc-uk.org GDC| Protecting patients, regulating the dental team SAVE PAPER - Please do not print this e-mail unless absolutely necessary From: A Khader [mailto:abdul_ke@...] Sent: 09 February 2012 17:08Examinations (020 7009 2780)Subject: Part 2 ORE Booking issues Dear Sir / Madam, I am writing to express my concern about the unfair GDC booking system for the ORE part 2 exams. I have tried booking a slot for the March exam and then after a failed attempt for that slot, I failed to book the slot for May exam as well. The thing is despite the fact that I was sat in front of

computer checking the booking open every second didn't help it either because I didn't even see a link for booking open for me on these two occasions which makes me think that the slot is opened only for selected candidates. It is is very unfair on your side to just open 100 places for almost 800 of the candidates waiting. The reason for such a mess is the fact that GDC didn't conduct exams for nearly an year and that

caused the current back log of candidates. Now, if you would have taken that into consideration and introduced more exams for this year or more places on the exams, the problem would have been settled to a large extent. As it is the whole process of giving these exams like any exam itself is very stressful and things like these make it more stressful for all of us candidates.I kindly request you to look into all this and come up with solution in regard to booking to make matters easy for us and for you as well. I would also kindly request you to look into opening more exam dates for this year

or allotting more places in exams and also to open bookings for the remaining part 2 exams this year before the next part 1 and part 2 results so that everyone gets an equal chance of being included and giving the exam. Kindly treat this matter as urgent and take necessary steps to help us take and

finish with the exams at the earliest. Thank you. Kind regards,A Khader From: Anushka Sharma

<anishkaanushka@...> " " < > Sent: Friday, 10 February 2012, 23:19 Subject: Fw: Fwd: ORE Part 2

Hi All,I have sent the following email to GDC and need everyone's support. I have seen until you do not push you do not get. If we have to suffer for all this then let these guys (GDC) make an appropriate reply. They just can not keep us in dark and rip us of as they want.Please write up your thoughts and in case you want me to communicate anything to GDC please feel free.Regards,Anushka ----- Forwarded

Message ----- From: UK Dentistry <overseasdentistry@...> anishkaanushka@... Sent: Friday, 10 February 2012, 23:14 Subject: Fwd: ORE Part 2 Hi,We need to take a stand guys.---------- Forwarded message ----------From: UK Dentistry <overseasdentistry@...>

Date: Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:02 PMSubject: Re: ORE Part 2"Examinations (020 7009 2780)" <examinations@...>Dear ,Thanks for your reply, please find my comprehensive writeup below for which you have not answered.

1) If the exam fees is less then how much does GDC (General Dental Council) charges from UK national BDS Graduate studying in UK universities. We have not seen any graduate paying this kind of fees for a 3 day exam. We appreciate that you have not increased the fees but it is already too high for any candidate to pay. Also to contribute in this exam a candidate has to do various courses viz Royal college of surgeons, Eastman Institute. They also charge approximately £1000 for 3 days crash courses, this cost is again exorbitantly high. So in totality GDC earns a good chunk of money from various institutes. We wish you could share the actual exam costs v/s exam fees but we know you are going to say that it is confidential; again GDC (ORE-1 and ORE-2) fees is higher than GMC (General Medical Council) ( PLAB-1 and PLAB-2) fees.

We have got a query here, if the above mentioned colleges charge £1000 for 3 days then why GDC charges £2250 for 3 day exams? We are sorry to say that your explanation is not quite right!2) The passing percentage of this exam is dreadful. Please can you comment on the same. The more candidates you fail then more money GDC (General Dental Council) can earn from this activity. It is as simple as that.

For GMC (General Medical Council) UK government gets the Non EU doctors and processes their registration numbers for free i.e. without conducting any exams. My query is why GDC doesn't follow the same pattern. As from one country, UK is getting doctors but the logic behind not getting the dentists is not clear. Please can you explain? For candidates who have not passed in examinations have to pay high fees every time. The dentists will serve the country as like doctors so why there is difference in treatment.

3) Now moving on to booking method EPAY. It is just not right. You have not answered that why you don't follow the same system for A-Levels and GCSE's? Yesterday, we logged on to the system at 14:00 hours and at 14:30:30 the seats were filled in. Just in 30 seconds? So where is first come first serve basis? It is not a cattle market where you let 800 odd people to go and sit on 100 seats. Please look into the system as people who are waiting for an year or two still have to wait. We think your previous system was better where you sent invite to only 100 people (on waiting list) and if the seats were not filled in you move on to the next lot based on how long that candidate has been waiting for the exam. Improvement has to be there.

4) The reason you have backlog is you never conducted exams last year and the passing percentage was too low. 5) The fair and explicit refers to a policy common for all students. If this exam has to be there then UK National BDS graduates must be entitled and undergo same exam. No matter if you are of different race the policy has to be same. If you say it is same then kindly split this exam with 50% students ( Studying Dentistry in UK) and 50% students (giving this ORE Exam). The standards has to be equal for all candidates. Can you implement this change?

This email is self explainatory and the language which we are using is simple and understandable. Therefore, we request you to answer each of our queries in a proper manner as we candidates are really annoyed with the standards set out by GDC for overseas candidates; this seems xenophobic to us. And we would like to complaint against the standards.

We wish you could be in our situation so you would have understood our point of view, where you need to dole out such a huge amount of money and the complete process is so stressful and frustrating.Being dentists, our prime motto is to help and support patients that is what we are taught in our education. So please make GDC an organisation which proudely serves for a right cause. Kindly treat us overseas dentists in a better way and not as the way you treat us currently!

We want resolutions with what improvements GDC can do, we need clear and proper replies as we are the sufferers!Regards,Overseas Dentists Group

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Examinations (020 7009 2780) <examinations@...> wrote:

Dear Sir/Madam

Since the last Part 2 exam was held 7-10 April 2011 we have held one Part 1 exam in August 2011. We do not profit from the ORE, it costs more to run the exam than we charge in fees (the fee has remained the same since 2007).

The ePay system does not allow candidates progress through the system if all the places have already been allocated. In this instance the system is not crashing or disorganised, it is preventing the candidates from entering payment details into the system when there are no further places available.

The GDC has a regulatory responsibility to ensure that overseas qualified dentists meet the standard of a 'just passed' UK BDS graduate. The ORE is designed for this purpose and is overseen by our own external examiners.

I am unclear what you mean by the absence on a fair and explicit ORE policy. If you are able to elucidate I will attempt to answer you.

I have tried to pick out the questions in your email below but if I have missed anything please get back to me.

Yours faithfully

Davies

Exams Team Manager

General Dental Council

Tel: +44 (0) 20 7009 2775

Fax: +44 (0) 20 7009 2748

Email: jdavies@...

Web: www.gdc-uk.org

GDC| Protecting patients, regulating the dental team

SAVE PAPER - Please do not print this e-mail unless absolutely necessary

What a shame (exam booking in GDC- UK)

Dear GDC Exam Team,

I hope you won't treat this email as first come first basis. Kindly give it the priority as I have lost my patience and can not overcome my stress levels! Your new system is like Who wants to be a millionaire! Let us play fastest fingers first.

Is this booking method real or virtual? Last time I tried to login for booking March exam and I could not get through, today I tried again for May exam but no joy. When I try to reach you then you easily say there are 800 people in waiting so better luck next time. There is no empathy, in ORE exam we are advised that you have to show sympathy for a concern otherwise we deduct marks. I wish we could rank you too.

You have surely been to school or college's in UK? Please advise, was this the method adopted for booking, GCSE's or A-levels? I suggest you must request the education minister to follow your said pattern of first come first serve basis.

Secondly, I see the system for ORE is Xenophobic. Why there is different rules and regulations for dentists studying in UK. We must have a fair and clear policy for all. After all we live in a social world and UK itself means United Kingdom. Where people live unitedly.

The method should be clear/ explicit for all people i.e. rich and poor.

I have a plan, please get 50% students ( Studying Dentistry in UK) and 50% students (giving this ORE Exam). Let us imply this as it will be a fair policy. Isn't it?

I am a most civilised person but this exam system has checked my patience.

Firstly, the exams were not open for a year which led to too many people in pipeline; since you still conducted part-1 to make money.

Now again you will get more ORE part-1 candidates in this and the waiting list for ORE part 2 candidates will increase gradually. Please do not be a money minting institute. After all it is hard earned money for which we pay tax to government.

Then after a good wait, it comes to that very moment where we get email from GDC that we are opening exams for part-2. Since morning you wait for this very moment and then you realise that there is nothing in your EPAY system. It is one of the most unorganised site I have ever been to! I think you may have seen that movie (gone in 30 seconds). That is what I feel when you publish the exam dates. Booking exam is just a joke.

Please let me know what action plans you propose for us as we are the sufferers where the exam fees is £2250 and to sit in this exam you have to spend another few 5 grands from your pocket. The results are too shabby that you need a lot of courage as the passing percentage is mear 8%~35%. I have studied from very well reputed college and when I sat in ORE it was just not right!

Please let me know what you can do to overcome this and what improvement methods you can opt for "FAIR AND EXPLICIT POLICY" for all overseas dentists.

In case I have to cascade this to any MP please feel free to write it to me.

Regards,

Overseas Dentists Group

If you have received this email in error please read on:

The material transmitted in this email and attachments is intended only

for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed and may contain

confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended

recipient, or the message contains information relating to a third party

apparently included in error, please do not review, re transmit, share,

disclose, print, store or take any action in reliance on its contents in

any way whatsoever.

If you receive this email in error, please contact the sender on

telephone number 020 7887 3800, delete the material from any computer

and destroy any copies made, alternatively email

mailto:Information@...

Communications transmitted over the Internet are not always secure. The

process of transmission may have infected the message and its contents

with a computer virus or other malware. The General Dental Council will

not accept any responsibility whatsoever for damage caused to the

recipient's computer systems when the message or contents are opened.

SUPPLIERS: For important changes to the General Dental Council’s

ordering arrangements, please consult the suppliers page on the GDC

website at this address -

http://www.gdc-uk.org/Partner+organisation/Suppliers.htm

[Guest guest]

Hi Anushka,Thats really very impressive mail.As Khader mentioned in his mail its better to be specific about EU people who are not tested for their skills.Thanks for your strenous efforts.Hope GDC responds positively for the mail.RegardsSiva From: Anushka Sharma <anishkaanushka@...> " "

< > Sent: Friday, 10 February 2012 11:19 PM Subject: Fw: Fwd: ORE Part 2

Hi All,I have sent the following email to GDC and need everyone's support. I have seen until you do not push you do not get. If we have to suffer for all this then let these guys (GDC) make an appropriate reply. They just can not keep us in dark and rip us of as they want.Please write up your thoughts and in case you want me to communicate anything to GDC please feel free.Regards,Anushka ----- Forwarded

Message ----- From: UK Dentistry <overseasdentistry@...> anishkaanushka@... Sent: Friday, 10 February 2012, 23:14 Subject: Fwd: ORE Part 2 Hi,We need to take a stand guys.---------- Forwarded message ----------From: UK Dentistry <overseasdentistry@...>

Date: Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:02 PMSubject: Re: ORE Part 2"Examinations (020 7009 2780)" <examinations@...>Dear ,Thanks for your reply, please find my comprehensive writeup below for which you have not answered.

1) If the exam fees is less then how much does GDC (General Dental Council) charges from UK national BDS Graduate studying in UK universities. We have not seen any graduate paying this kind of fees for a 3 day exam. We appreciate that you have not increased the fees but it is already too high for any candidate to pay. Also to contribute in this exam a candidate has to do various courses viz Royal college of surgeons, Eastman Institute. They also charge approximately £1000 for 3 days crash courses, this cost is again exorbitantly high. So in totality GDC earns a good chunk of money from various institutes. We wish you could share the actual exam costs v/s exam fees but we know you are going to say that it is confidential; again GDC (ORE-1 and ORE-2) fees is higher than GMC (General Medical Council) ( PLAB-1 and PLAB-2) fees.

We have got a query here, if the above mentioned colleges charge £1000 for 3 days then why GDC charges £2250 for 3 day exams? We are sorry to say that your explanation is not quite right!2) The passing percentage of this exam is dreadful. Please can you comment on the same. The more candidates you fail then more money GDC (General Dental Council) can earn from this activity. It is as simple as that.

For GMC (General Medical Council) UK government gets the Non EU doctors and processes their registration numbers for free i.e. without conducting any exams. My query is why GDC doesn't follow the same pattern. As from one country, UK is getting doctors but the logic behind not getting the dentists is not clear. Please can you explain? For candidates who have not passed in examinations have to pay high fees every time. The dentists will serve the country as like doctors so why there is difference in treatment.

3) Now moving on to booking method EPAY. It is just not right. You have not answered that why you don't follow the same system for A-Levels and GCSE's? Yesterday, we logged on to the system at 14:00 hours and at 14:30:30 the seats were filled in. Just in 30 seconds? So where is first come first serve basis? It is not a cattle market where you let 800 odd people to go and sit on 100 seats. Please look into the system as people who are waiting for an year or two still have to wait. We think your previous system was better where you sent invite to only 100 people (on waiting list) and if the seats were not filled in you move on to the next lot based on how long that candidate has been waiting for the exam. Improvement has to be there.

4) The reason you have backlog is you never conducted exams last year and the passing percentage was too low. 5) The fair and explicit refers to a policy common for all students. If this exam has to be there then UK National BDS graduates must be entitled and undergo same exam. No matter if you are of different race the policy has to be same. If you say it is same then kindly split this exam with 50% students ( Studying Dentistry in UK) and 50% students (giving this ORE Exam). The standards has to be equal for all candidates. Can you implement this change?

This email is self explainatory and the language which we are using is simple and understandable. Therefore, we request you to answer each of our queries in a proper manner as we candidates are really annoyed with the standards set out by GDC for overseas candidates; this seems xenophobic to us. And we would like to complaint against the standards.

We wish you could be in our situation so you would have understood our point of view, where you need to dole out such a huge amount of money and the complete process is so stressful and frustrating.Being dentists, our prime motto is to help and support patients that is what we are taught in our education. So please make GDC an organisation which proudely serves for a right cause. Kindly treat us overseas dentists in a better way and not as the way you treat us currently!

We want resolutions with what improvements GDC can do, we need clear and proper replies as we are the sufferers!Regards,Overseas Dentists Group

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Examinations (020 7009 2780) <examinations@...> wrote:

Dear Sir/Madam

Since the last Part 2 exam was held 7-10 April 2011 we have held one Part 1 exam in August 2011. We do not profit from the ORE, it costs more to run the exam than we charge in fees (the fee has remained the same since 2007).

The ePay system does not allow candidates progress through the system if all the places have already been allocated. In this instance the system is not crashing or disorganised, it is preventing the candidates from entering payment details into the system when there are no further places available.

The GDC has a regulatory responsibility to ensure that overseas qualified dentists meet the standard of a 'just passed' UK BDS graduate. The ORE is designed for this purpose and is overseen by our own external examiners.

I am unclear what you mean by the absence on a fair and explicit ORE policy. If you are able to elucidate I will attempt to answer you.

I have tried to pick out the questions in your email below but if I have missed anything please get back to me.

Yours faithfully

Davies

Exams Team Manager

General Dental Council

Tel: +44 (0) 20 7009 2775

Fax: +44 (0) 20 7009 2748

Email: jdavies@...

Web: www.gdc-uk.org

GDC| Protecting patients, regulating the dental team

SAVE PAPER - Please do not print this e-mail unless absolutely necessary

What a shame (exam booking in GDC- UK)

Dear GDC Exam Team,

I hope you won't treat this email as first come first basis. Kindly give it the priority as I have lost my patience and can not overcome my stress levels! Your new system is like Who wants to be a millionaire! Let us play fastest fingers first.

Is this booking method real or virtual? Last time I tried to login for booking March exam and I could not get through, today I tried again for May exam but no joy. When I try to reach you then you easily say there are 800 people in waiting so better luck next time. There is no empathy, in ORE exam we are advised that you have to show sympathy for a concern otherwise we deduct marks. I wish we could rank you too.

You have surely been to school or college's in UK? Please advise, was this the method adopted for booking, GCSE's or A-levels? I suggest you must request the education minister to follow your said pattern of first come first serve basis.

Secondly, I see the system for ORE is Xenophobic. Why there is different rules and regulations for dentists studying in UK. We must have a fair and clear policy for all. After all we live in a social world and UK itself means United Kingdom. Where people live unitedly.

The method should be clear/ explicit for all people i.e. rich and poor.

I have a plan, please get 50% students ( Studying Dentistry in UK) and 50% students (giving this ORE Exam). Let us imply this as it will be a fair policy. Isn't it?

I am a most civilised person but this exam system has checked my patience.

Firstly, the exams were not open for a year which led to too many people in pipeline; since you still conducted part-1 to make money.

Now again you will get more ORE part-1 candidates in this and the waiting list for ORE part 2 candidates will increase gradually. Please do not be a money minting institute. After all it is hard earned money for which we pay tax to government.

Then after a good wait, it comes to that very moment where we get email from GDC that we are opening exams for part-2. Since morning you wait for this very moment and then you realise that there is nothing in your EPAY system. It is one of the most unorganised site I have ever been to! I think you may have seen that movie (gone in 30 seconds). That is what I feel when you publish the exam dates. Booking exam is just a joke.

Please let me know what action plans you propose for us as we are the sufferers where the exam fees is £2250 and to sit in this exam you have to spend another few 5 grands from your pocket. The results are too shabby that you need a lot of courage as the passing percentage is mear 8%~35%. I have studied from very well reputed college and when I sat in ORE it was just not right!

Please let me know what you can do to overcome this and what improvement methods you can opt for "FAIR AND EXPLICIT POLICY" for all overseas dentists.

In case I have to cascade this to any MP please feel free to write it to me.

Regards,

Overseas Dentists Group

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any way whatsoever.

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with a computer virus or other malware. The General Dental Council will

not accept any responsibility whatsoever for damage caused to the

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SUPPLIERS: For important changes to the General Dental Council’s

ordering arrangements, please consult the suppliers page on the GDC

website at this address -

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[Guest guest]

Hi, Could you please request them to split the exam fee in all the four components  which are osce , dpt, dm & me. and that an unsuccessful candidate could be allowed to sit in the failed component of the exam rather than give the whole exam again .

Regards ,  Ghazala

[Guest guest]

I agree with the viewpoint of you all.EU dentists are not at par with UK dentist

or ORE applicants. They struggle with speaking english alone..what more can be

expected...we should request GDC to increase pass percentage of ORE part 2 and

make EU dentist also give ORE ....

instead they r making part 2 more and more difficult.............

>

> Dear Sir/Madam

> >

> >Since the last Part 2 exam was held 7-10 April 2011 we have held one Part 1

exam in August 2011.  We do not profit from the ORE, it costs more to run the

exam than we charge in fees (the fee has remained the same since 2007).

> >

> >The ePay system does not allow candidates progress through the system if all

the places have already been allocated. In this instance the system is not

crashing or disorganised, it is preventing the candidates from entering payment

details into the system when there are no further places available.

> >

> >The GDC has a regulatory responsibility to ensure that overseas qualified

dentists meet the standard of a 'just passed' UK BDS graduate.  The ORE is

designed for this purpose and is overseen by our own external examiners.

> >

> >I am unclear what you mean by the absence on a fair and explicit ORE policy.

 If you are able to elucidate I will attempt to answer you.

> >

> >I have tried to pick out the questions in your email below but if I have

missed anything please get back to me.

> >

> >Yours faithfully

> >

> >

> > Davies

> >Exams Team Manager

> >General Dental Council

> >

> >Tel: +44 (0) 20 7009 2775

> >Fax: +44 (0) 20 7009 2748

> >Email: jdavies@...

> >Web: www.gdc-uk.org    

> >GDC| Protecting patients, regulating the dental team

> >SAVE PAPER - Please do not print this e-mail unless absolutely necessary

> >

> >

> > What a shame (exam booking in GDC- UK)

> >

> >Dear GDC Exam Team,

> >

> >I hope you won't treat this email as first come first basis. Kindly give it

the priority as I have lost my patience and can not overcome my stress levels!

Your new system is like Who wants to be a millionaire! Let us play fastest

fingers first.

> >

> >Is this booking method real or virtual? Last time I tried to login for

booking March exam and I could not get through, today I tried again for May exam

but no joy. When I try to reach you then you easily say there are 800 people in

waiting so better luck next time. There is no empathy, in ORE exam we are

advised that you have to show sympathy for a concern otherwise we deduct marks.

I wish we could rank you too.

> >

> >You have surely been to school or college's in UK? Please advise, was this

the method adopted for booking, GCSE's or A-levels? I suggest you must request

the education minister to follow your said pattern of first come first serve

basis.

> >

> >Secondly, I see the system for ORE is Xenophobic. Why there is different

rules and regulations for dentists studying in UK. We must have a fair and clear

policy for all. After all we live in a social world and UK itself means United

Kingdom. Where people live unitedly.

> >The method should be clear/ explicit for all people i.e. rich and poor.

> >

> >I have a plan, please get 50% students ( Studying Dentistry in UK) and 50%

students (giving this ORE Exam). Let us imply this as it will be a fair policy.

Isn't it?

> >

> >I am a most civilised person but this exam system has checked my patience.

> >

> >Firstly, the exams were not open for a year which led to too many people in

pipeline; since you still conducted part-1 to make money.

> >Now again you will get more ORE part-1 candidates in this and the waiting

list for ORE part 2 candidates will increase gradually. Please do not be a money

minting institute. After all it is hard earned money for which we pay tax to

government.

> >

> >Then after a good wait, it comes to that very moment where we get email from

GDC that we are opening exams for part-2. Since morning you wait for this very

moment and then you realise that there is nothing in your EPAY system. It is one

of the most unorganised site I have ever been to! I think you may have seen that

movie (gone in 30 seconds). That is what I feel when you publish the exam dates.

Booking exam is just a joke.

> >

> >Please let me know what action plans you propose for us as we are the

sufferers where the exam fees is £2250 and to sit in this exam you have to

spend another few 5 grands from your pocket. The results are too shabby that you

need a lot of courage as the passing percentage is mear 8%~35%. I have studied

from very well reputed college and when I sat in ORE it was just not right!

> >

> >Please let me know what you can do to overcome this and what improvement

methods you can opt for " FAIR AND EXPLICIT POLICY " for all overseas dentists.

> >

> >In case I have to cascade this to any MP please feel free to write it to me.

> >

> >Regards,

> >Overseas Dentists Group

> >If you have received this email in error please read on:

> >

> >The material transmitted in this email and attachments is intended only

> >for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed and may contain

> >confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended

> >recipient, or the message contains information relating to a third party

> >apparently included in error, please do not review, re transmit, share,

> >disclose, print, store or take any action in reliance on its contents in

> >any way whatsoever.

> >

> >If you receive this email in error, please contact the sender on

> >telephone number 020 7887 3800, delete the material from any computer

> >and destroy any copies made, alternatively email

> >mailto:Information@...

> >

> >Communications transmitted over the Internet are not always secure. The

> >process of transmission may have infected the message and its contents

> >with a computer virus or other malware. The General Dental Council will

> >not accept any responsibility whatsoever for damage caused to the

> >recipient's computer systems when the message or contents are opened.

> >

> >SUPPLIERS: For important changes to the General Dental Council’s

> >ordering arrangements, please consult the suppliers page on the GDC

> >website at this address -

> >http://www.gdc-uk.org/Partner+organisation/Suppliers.htm

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

hi all Ore exam needs changes for example - why can't GDC change the OSCE each day , rather make life difficult for the guys taking the first day who failed because they percentile was low , also the next day takers marking were changed , looked like one stone 2 birds story when question GDC did not give a convincing answer , also the ore part 2 exam takers made no voice except few, secondly i was failed twice by examiner x , i the feed back i was surprised to find the other examiner had in fact passed me . why did i get the same examiner again its luck , however examiner should not come continuously . Also

the pass percentage of each examiner should be given in information act and why examiners are from certain institution , no definitive roll of the GDC examiner was seen . the feed back never explained me why i failed . The eastman ore part 2 course has nothing to do with GDC as i was told , we are also partly to blame as we don't ask the right question to right people . hope we find some light thanks kiran From: siva ranjani

<siva2828@...> " " < > Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 8:42 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Fwd: ORE Part 2

Hi all,yes I agree with Khader EU people are not tested for UK equivalence they directly give performer number and they struggle to communicate with the patients which is not at all noticed by GDC.We have to definitely make them aware of this. They keep telling about professionalism and around 40% of dentists in UK are from EU countries who cannot speak english.ThanksSiva From: A Khader

<abdul_ke@...> " " < > Sent: Saturday, 11 February 2012 12:05 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Fwd: ORE Part 2

Hi Anushka, can you please stress more on the EU dentists not being asked to take any of these exams rather than pointing at UK qualified ones. GDC fails in its very first motto of protecting the patients when they cant even be bothered to test EU dentists for their language skills which are in most cases must worse than what we all can deliver (although they keep saying its up to a PCT to conduct such tests and they are not mandatory at the moment). Also please in your next email to them, request releasing the remaining booking slots before the next exam results are out so that everyone gets a fair chance of giving the exams.I did send

them an email about the booking fiasco and the reply I got is pasted below in the non highlighted section. Please have a look. Many of them just read these emails and do not contribute, that is where the unity falters.Dear Mr Khader I am sorry to hear that you were unsuccessful in booking a place yesterday. You are not doing anything wrong it is just that there are 800-plus people trying to book 100 places. As soon as the exam places go you will not be able to see the diet date on the ePay system – it is

therefore likely that whilst your page was refreshing the places went as they did go extremely quickly. We have no plans to go back to the waiting list system which penalised candidates who were unable to take up the invitation of a place at an exam. At present we use the on-line booking system on ePay and this is only available on a first come first served basis. We continuously aim to improve our service and any future improvements to the system will be advertised, in advance, on our website. For candidates who are approaching their five year expiry date we have a procedure in place whereby they have priority booking in up to three exam diets (subject to their maximum number of four) during the preceding 9 month period. We will be in contact with you when

you are eligible for priority booking. In the meantime we have six exams scheduled this year and we will attempt to schedule up to 10 exams next year in order to reduce the waiting list. We will advise candidates via the ORE Latest Information page how many cancellations we have for the March and May exams in due course and when we will reopen these places for booking. Yours sincerely DaviesExams Team

ManagerGeneral Dental Council Tel: +44 (0) 20 7009 2775 Fax: +44 (0) 20 7009 2748 Email: jdavies@...Web: www.gdc-uk.org GDC| Protecting patients, regulating the dental team SAVE PAPER - Please do not print this e-mail unless absolutely necessary From: A Khader [mailto:abdul_ke@...] Sent: 09 February 2012 17:08Examinations (020 7009 2780)Subject: Part 2 ORE Booking issues Dear Sir / Madam, I am writing to express my concern about the unfair GDC booking system for the ORE part 2 exams. I have tried booking a slot for the March

exam and then after a failed attempt for that slot, I failed to book the slot for May exam as well. The thing is despite the fact that I was sat in front of

computer checking the booking open every second didn't help it either because I didn't even see a link for booking open for me on these two occasions which makes me think that the slot is opened only for selected candidates. It is is very unfair on your side to just open 100 places for almost 800 of the candidates waiting. The reason for such a mess is the fact that GDC didn't conduct exams for nearly an year and that

caused the current back log of candidates. Now, if you would have taken that into consideration and introduced more exams for this year or more places on the exams, the problem would have been settled to a large extent. As it is the whole process of giving these exams like any exam itself is very stressful and things like these make it more stressful for all of us candidates.I kindly request you to look into all this and come up with solution in regard to booking to make matters easy for us and for you as well. I would also kindly request you to look into opening more exam dates for this year

or allotting more places in exams and also to open bookings for the remaining part 2 exams this year before the next part 1 and part 2 results so that everyone gets an equal chance of being included and giving the exam. Kindly treat this matter as urgent and take necessary steps to help us take and

finish with the exams at the earliest. Thank you. Kind regards,A Khader From: Anushka Sharma

<anishkaanushka@...> " " < > Sent: Friday, 10 February 2012, 23:19 Subject: Fw: Fwd: ORE Part 2

Hi All,I have sent the following email to GDC and need everyone's support. I have seen until you do not push you do not get. If we have to suffer for all this then let these guys (GDC) make an appropriate reply. They just can not keep us in dark and rip us of as they want.Please write up your thoughts and in case you want me to communicate anything to GDC please feel free.Regards,Anushka ----- Forwarded

Message ----- From: UK Dentistry <overseasdentistry@...> anishkaanushka@... Sent: Friday, 10 February 2012, 23:14 Subject: Fwd: ORE Part 2 Hi,We need to take a stand guys.---------- Forwarded message ----------From: UK Dentistry <overseasdentistry@...>

Date: Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:02 PMSubject: Re: ORE Part 2"Examinations (020 7009 2780)" <examinations@...>Dear ,Thanks for your reply, please find my comprehensive writeup below for which you have not answered.

1) If the exam fees is less then how much does GDC (General Dental Council) charges from UK national BDS Graduate studying in UK universities. We have not seen any graduate paying this kind of fees for a 3 day exam. We appreciate that you have not increased the fees but it is already too high for any candidate to pay. Also to contribute in this exam a candidate has to do various courses viz Royal college of surgeons, Eastman Institute. They also charge approximately £1000 for 3 days crash courses, this cost is again exorbitantly high. So in totality GDC earns a good chunk of money from various institutes. We wish you could share the actual exam costs v/s exam fees but we know you are going to say that it is confidential; again GDC (ORE-1 and ORE-2) fees is higher than GMC (General Medical Council) ( PLAB-1 and PLAB-2) fees.

We have got a query here, if the above mentioned colleges charge £1000 for 3 days then why GDC charges £2250 for 3 day exams? We are sorry to say that your explanation is not quite right!2) The passing percentage of this exam is dreadful. Please can you comment on the same. The more candidates you fail then more money GDC (General Dental Council) can earn from this activity. It is as simple as that.

For GMC (General Medical Council) UK government gets the Non EU doctors and processes their registration numbers for free i.e. without conducting any exams. My query is why GDC doesn't follow the same pattern. As from one country, UK is getting doctors but the logic behind not getting the dentists is not clear. Please can you explain? For candidates who have not passed in examinations have to pay high fees every time. The dentists will serve the country as like doctors so why there is difference in treatment.

3) Now moving on to booking method EPAY. It is just not right. You have not answered that why you don't follow the same system for A-Levels and GCSE's? Yesterday, we logged on to the system at 14:00 hours and at 14:30:30 the seats were filled in. Just in 30 seconds? So where is first come first serve basis? It is not a cattle market where you let 800 odd people to go and sit on 100 seats. Please look into the system as people who are waiting for an year or two still have to wait. We think your previous system was better where you sent invite to only 100 people (on waiting list) and if the seats were not filled in you move on to the next lot based on how long that candidate has been waiting for the exam. Improvement has to be there.

4) The reason you have backlog is you never conducted exams last year and the passing percentage was too low. 5) The fair and explicit refers to a policy common for all students. If this exam has to be there then UK National BDS graduates must be entitled and undergo same exam. No matter if you are of different race the policy has to be same. If you say it is same then kindly split this exam with 50% students ( Studying Dentistry in UK) and 50% students (giving this ORE Exam). The standards has to be equal for all candidates. Can you implement this change?

This email is self explainatory and the language which we are using is simple and understandable. Therefore, we request you to answer each of our queries in a proper manner as we candidates are really annoyed with the standards set out by GDC for overseas candidates; this seems xenophobic to us. And we would like to complaint against the standards.

We wish you could be in our situation so you would have understood our point of view, where you need to dole out such a huge amount of money and the complete process is so stressful and frustrating.Being dentists, our prime motto is to help and support patients that is what we are taught in our education. So please make GDC an organisation which proudely serves for a right cause. Kindly treat us overseas dentists in a better way and not as the way you treat us currently!

We want resolutions with what improvements GDC can do, we need clear and proper replies as we are the sufferers!Regards,Overseas Dentists Group

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Examinations (020 7009 2780) <examinations@...> wrote:

Dear Sir/Madam

Since the last Part 2 exam was held 7-10 April 2011 we have held one Part 1 exam in August 2011. We do not profit from the ORE, it costs more to run the exam than we charge in fees (the fee has remained the same since 2007).

The ePay system does not allow candidates progress through the system if all the places have already been allocated. In this instance the system is not crashing or disorganised, it is preventing the candidates from entering payment details into the system when there are no further places available.

The GDC has a regulatory responsibility to ensure that overseas qualified dentists meet the standard of a 'just passed' UK BDS graduate. The ORE is designed for this purpose and is overseen by our own external examiners.

I am unclear what you mean by the absence on a fair and explicit ORE policy. If you are able to elucidate I will attempt to answer you.

I have tried to pick out the questions in your email below but if I have missed anything please get back to me.

Yours faithfully

Davies

Exams Team Manager

General Dental Council

Tel: +44 (0) 20 7009 2775

Fax: +44 (0) 20 7009 2748

Email: jdavies@...

Web: www.gdc-uk.org

GDC| Protecting patients, regulating the dental team

SAVE PAPER - Please do not print this e-mail unless absolutely necessary

What a shame (exam booking in GDC- UK)

Dear GDC Exam Team,

I hope you won't treat this email as first come first basis. Kindly give it the priority as I have lost my patience and can not overcome my stress levels! Your new system is like Who wants to be a millionaire! Let us play fastest fingers first.

Is this booking method real or virtual? Last time I tried to login for booking March exam and I could not get through, today I tried again for May exam but no joy. When I try to reach you then you easily say there are 800 people in waiting so better luck next time. There is no empathy, in ORE exam we are advised that you have to show sympathy for a concern otherwise we deduct marks. I wish we could rank you too.

You have surely been to school or college's in UK? Please advise, was this the method adopted for booking, GCSE's or A-levels? I suggest you must request the education minister to follow your said pattern of first come first serve basis.

Secondly, I see the system for ORE is Xenophobic. Why there is different rules and regulations for dentists studying in UK. We must have a fair and clear policy for all. After all we live in a social world and UK itself means United Kingdom. Where people live unitedly.

The method should be clear/ explicit for all people i.e. rich and poor.

I have a plan, please get 50% students ( Studying Dentistry in UK) and 50% students (giving this ORE Exam). Let us imply this as it will be a fair policy. Isn't it?

I am a most civilised person but this exam system has checked my patience.

Firstly, the exams were not open for a year which led to too many people in pipeline; since you still conducted part-1 to make money.

Now again you will get more ORE part-1 candidates in this and the waiting list for ORE part 2 candidates will increase gradually. Please do not be a money minting institute. After all it is hard earned money for which we pay tax to government.

Then after a good wait, it comes to that very moment where we get email from GDC that we are opening exams for part-2. Since morning you wait for this very moment and then you realise that there is nothing in your EPAY system. It is one of the most unorganised site I have ever been to! I think you may have seen that movie (gone in 30 seconds). That is what I feel when you publish the exam dates. Booking exam is just a joke.

Please let me know what action plans you propose for us as we are the sufferers where the exam fees is £2250 and to sit in this exam you have to spend another few 5 grands from your pocket. The results are too shabby that you need a lot of courage as the passing percentage is mear 8%~35%. I have studied from very well reputed college and when I sat in ORE it was just not right!

Please let me know what you can do to overcome this and what improvement methods you can opt for "FAIR AND EXPLICIT POLICY" for all overseas dentists.

In case I have to cascade this to any MP please feel free to write it to me.

Regards,

Overseas Dentists Group

If you have received this email in error please read on:

The material transmitted in this email and attachments is intended only

for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed and may contain

confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended

recipient, or the message contains information relating to a third party

apparently included in error, please do not review, re transmit, share,

disclose, print, store or take any action in reliance on its contents in

any way whatsoever.

If you receive this email in error, please contact the sender on

telephone number 020 7887 3800, delete the material from any computer

and destroy any copies made, alternatively email

mailto:Information@...

Communications transmitted over the Internet are not always secure. The

process of transmission may have infected the message and its contents

with a computer virus or other malware. The General Dental Council will

not accept any responsibility whatsoever for damage caused to the

recipient's computer systems when the message or contents are opened.

SUPPLIERS: For important changes to the General Dental Council’s

ordering arrangements, please consult the suppliers page on the GDC

website at this address -

http://www.gdc-uk.org/Partner+organisation/Suppliers.htm