Re: paramedic practitioners

[Guest guest]

Hello Jerry,

Where are you based ?

Consider contacting The Snowshoe Mountain Resort , West Virginia ski

patrol(Shavers Fork Fire Department and Pocahontas Medic Unit) and talking with

Drummond Figg (he may have moved on or back to Virginia -Richmond area I believe

) for his perspective of this program officially and unofficially and their

experiences in Remote , Eastern/southern West Virginia...our transport times to

definative care at the mountain and in surrounding communities where we covered

were certainly greater than 20 minutes when I was the PA there in 90's.we

routinely used medics for a limited , but expanded role.

Many US Camps do the same with standing orders for EMT's and Paramedics-

In addition The State of Arizona and New Mexico are looking at this issue

closely. Talk with Bob McMullen PA-C, NREMT-P, RN who has been involved with

this kind of project both in Maine and Arizona.The Community Health Aid Program

in Alaska has great material to offer.

I'd be happy for a shout back off group(gkeenan@...)for some more

specific comments regarding experience here in states...but believe me we still

have some " remote " and delayed response area's( think Islands) where the

paramedic or EMT even IS the local medical care.

Dr. Busco, MD, EMT-P at Eastern Maine Medical Center ER

( hey weigh in anytime here ! ) may be able to comment on a project

in it's earliest stages of development that is looking at EMS in an expanded

Community Health role on Maine islands and in remote area's.Additionally the

National Park service can probably share experiences.Yellowstone etc...

The problem is there is no national standard about " expanded " practice where

does line start and stop ?Medic training doesn't encompess and how is this

person different that the Washington State Model of MEDEX Physician Assistant?

>

> From: Ian Sharpe <Ian@...>

> Subject: Re: Looking for advice re:

> moving into safety

>

> Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 6:09 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Andy,

>

> There are numerous qualifications related to safety and

> dozens of organisations who can help.

>

> The two main professional bodies generally accepted (from

> the UK side) are

>

> IOSH – the institute of occupational safety and health

> And

> IISRM – international institute of safety and risk

> management

>

> (Half and hour on google will tell you all you need to

> know)

>

> Training organisations are also numerous but the generally

> accepted entry level qualification is the NEBOSH

> certificate, which can be done either by distance learning

> or taught course. Also don’t discount the BSC – British

> Safety Council, I’m told they also have some good courses.

>

> The problem with moving into safety is people come from

> many different backgrounds and consequently take many

> different routes to get where they are. The common thing I

> found when I moved into safety was that there is no common

> thing!. That sounds odd but what I mean is if you line 10

> Safety guys up and ask them what quals and background they

> have you’ll get 10 different answers, to put that in to

> perspective, offshore on my project working for the client

> there are 6 of us holding 3 b2b positions, all of us are

> different and all hold different certs and diplomas but we

> all fulfil the same job spec, and desptie sharing the same

> job description we don't really share common quals

>

> There is no right and wrong way, though in truth some quals

> are better recognised that others eg NEBOSH

>

> From personal experience the route I took was;

>

>

> Ex Medic

> NEBOSH Certificate

> Based on the above and experience got entry to IOSH at Tech

> Level

> Then NVQ Level 4 Occ Safety and Health,

> Which led to Graduate Membership of IOSH & amp; Full

> Membership of IIRSM

> The intention now based on the above is to complete an MSc,

> which should wrap up the academic stuff, then just build on

> it with more experience.

>

> The first three above and a few lucky breaks were

> sufficient to secure me a full time HSE position. I’ve

> said it before on this forum and I’ll say it again, it was

> without a doubt the best career move I ever made….

>

> I was a medic for many years so I can with hand on heart

> say this but in the oil and gas industry medics are never

> really taken seriously, they are underpaid and

> underappreciated and despite the plethora of high quality

> guys out there fulfilling positions . For the most part they

> never will be taken seriously. (The below average salaries

> reflect that).

>

> Moving into safety, the salary rockets, management

> (SOMETIMES) listen, and you can really make a difference.

> Its not everyone’s cup of tea, but for me personally it

> was a great move, its not rocket science and anyone with

> reasonable intelligence, a health background, and good

> analytical skills would find safety relatively easy and

> hopefully rewearding.

>

> Oh that and you need a really thick skin and be prepared to

> upset a few people !

>

> Hope the above helps, if you want any more info drop me a

> line,

>

> Rgs

>

> Ian

> ----- Original Message -----From: " buemedic1 "

> >;andrew.rice@ ic24.net

>

>

[Guest guest]

http://www.jems.com/news_and_articles/articles/jems/3209/beyond_ems.html

----- Start Original Message -----

Sent: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:35:17 -0800 (PST)

From: Jerry <froglegz57@...>

Subject: paramedic practitioners

> Gents,

>      Once again it looks like we will be revisiting the idea of paramedics in

the field with an expanded role.  Is there anyone out there who has had

experience with this concept?  I know that worldwide the role of paramedics has

expanded exponentially over the last few years.  What i really need to know is

have any systems officially adopted an advanced skills paramedic certification

and if so could you share some of your experiences. 

>      Here in the US we are a bit spoiled in that remote regions are few and in

our system in particular our medics consider a 20 min transport to be extreme. 

Some areas (large parks, mountainous) have adopted select specialized skills but

we still have no standard for services.  We have a long way to go with this

project and do not need to reinvent anything if we don't have to.  Any help or

advice will be appreciated.

>  

> jerry

>

>

>

> From: Ian Sharpe <Ian@...>

> Subject: Re: Looking for advice re: moving into safety

>

> Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 6:09 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Andy,

>

> There are numerous qualifications related to safety and dozens of

organisations who can help.

>

> The two main professional bodies generally accepted (from the UK side) are

>

> IOSH – the institute of occupational safety and health

> And

> IISRM – international institute of safety and risk management

>

> (Half and hour on google will tell you all you need to know)

>

> Training organisations are also numerous but the generally accepted entry

level qualification is the NEBOSH certificate, which can be done either by

distance learning or taught course. Also don’t discount the BSC – British Safety

Council, I’m told they also have some good courses.

>

> The problem with moving into safety is people come from many different

backgrounds and consequently take many different routes to get where they are.

The common thing I found when I moved into safety was that there is no common

thing!. That sounds odd but what I mean is if you line 10 Safety guys up and ask

them what quals and background they have you’ll get 10 different answers, to put

that in to perspective, offshore on my project working for the client there are

6 of us holding 3 b2b positions, all of us are different and all hold different

certs and diplomas but we all fulfil the same job spec, and desptie sharing the

same job description we don't really share common quals

>

> There is no right and wrong way, though in truth some quals are better

recognised that others eg NEBOSH

>

> From personal experience the route I took was;

>

>

> Ex Medic

> NEBOSH Certificate

> Based on the above and experience got entry to IOSH at Tech Level

> Then NVQ Level 4 Occ Safety and Health,

> Which led to Graduate Membership of IOSH & Full Membership of IIRSM

> The intention now based on the above is to complete an MSc, which should wrap

up the academic stuff, then just build on it with more experience.

>

> The first three above and a few lucky breaks were sufficient to secure me a

full time HSE position. I’ve said it before on this forum and I’ll say it again,

it was without a doubt the best career move I ever made….

>

> I was a medic for many years so I can with hand on heart say this but in the

oil and gas industry medics are never really taken seriously, they are underpaid

and underappreciated and despite the plethora of high quality guys out there

fulfilling positions . For the most part they never will be taken seriously.

(The below average salaries reflect that).

>

> Moving into safety, the salary rockets, management (SOMETIMES) listen, and you

can really make a difference. Its not everyone’s cup of tea, but for me

personally it was a great move, its not rocket science and anyone with

reasonable intelligence, a health background, and good analytical skills would

find safety relatively easy and hopefully rewearding.

>

> Oh that and you need a really thick skin and be prepared to upset a few people

!

>

> Hope the above helps, if you want any more info drop me a line,

>

> Rgs

>

> Ian

> ----- Original Message -----From: " buemedic1 " >;andrew.rice@ ic24.net

>

>

[Guest guest]

There is also an extended paramedic program starting thru the Sioux

tribe which runs Mystic Lake casino in MN. I don't know much about

the program, just saw a blurb about one of the local technical

colleges partnering with them for this program.

Also the AMR RAT (reach and treat) team out of Portland has some good

extended protocols for wilderness work.

Mike Whooley

SFFD EMS

> >

> > From: Ian Sharpe <Ian@...>

> > Subject: Re: Looking for advice re:

> > moving into safety

> >

> > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 6:09 AM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Andy,

> >

> > There are numerous qualifications related to safety and

> > dozens of organisations who can help.

> >

> > The two main professional bodies generally accepted (from

> > the UK side) are

> >

> > IOSH †" the institute of occupational safety and health

> > And

> > IISRM †" international institute of safety and risk

> > management

> >

> > (Half and hour on google will tell you all you need to

> > know)

> >

> > Training organisations are also numerous but the generally

> > accepted entry level qualification is the NEBOSH

> > certificate, which can be done either by distance learning

> > or taught course. Also don’t discount the BSC †" British

> > Safety Council, I’m told they also have some good courses.

> >

> > The problem with moving into safety is people come from

> > many different backgrounds and consequently take many

> > different routes to get where they are. The common thing I

> > found when I moved into safety was that there is no common

> > thing!. That sounds odd but what I mean is if you line 10

> > Safety guys up and ask them what quals and background they

> > have you’ll get 10 different answers, to put that in to

> > perspective, offshore on my project working for the client

> > there are 6 of us holding 3 b2b positions, all of us are

> > different and all hold different certs and diplomas but we

> > all fulfil the same job spec, and desptie sharing the same

> > job description we don't really share common quals

> >

> > There is no right and wrong way, though in truth some quals

> > are better recognised that others eg NEBOSH

> >

> > From personal experience the route I took was;

> >

> >

> > Ex Medic

> > NEBOSH Certificate

> > Based on the above and experience got entry to IOSH at Tech

> > Level

> > Then NVQ Level 4 Occ Safety and Health,

> > Which led to Graduate Membership of IOSH & amp; Full

> > Membership of IIRSM

> > The intention now based on the above is to complete an MSc,

> > which should wrap up the academic stuff, then just build on

> > it with more experience.

> >

> > The first three above and a few lucky breaks were

> > sufficient to secure me a full time HSE position. I’ve

> > said it before on this forum and I’ll say it again, it was

> > without a doubt the best career move I ever made….

> >

> > I was a medic for many years so I can with hand on heart

> > say this but in the oil and gas industry medics are never

> > really taken seriously, they are underpaid and

> > underappreciated and despite the plethora of high quality

> > guys out there fulfilling positions . For the most part they

> > never will be taken seriously. (The below average salaries

> > reflect that).

> >

> > Moving into safety, the salary rockets, management

> > (SOMETIMES) listen, and you can really make a difference.

> > Its not everyone’s cup of tea, but for me personally it

> > was a great move, its not rocket science and anyone with

> > reasonable intelligence, a health background, and good

> > analytical skills would find safety relatively easy and

> > hopefully rewearding.

> >

> > Oh that and you need a really thick skin and be prepared to

> > upset a few people !

> >

> > Hope the above helps, if you want any more info drop me a

> > line,

> >

> > Rgs

> >

> > Ian

> > ----- Original Message -----From: " buemedic1 "

> > >;andrew.rice@ ic24.net

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

You may also want to look at the State of Alaska's Protocols as the majority of

their coverage is rural.  Also, Alaska Fire Service has Fire Medics whose

protocols are extended even further (suturing, debridement, etc.)

Dave

>

> From: Ian Sharpe <Iansharpesafety (DOT) co.uk>

> Subject: Re: [Remotemedics. co.uk] Looking for advice re: moving into safety

> @groups. com

> Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 6:09 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Andy,

>

> There are numerous qualifications related to safety and dozens of

organisations who can help.

>

> The two main professional bodies generally accepted (from the UK side) are

>

> IOSH – the institute of occupational safety and health

> And

> IISRM – international institute of safety and risk management

>

> (Half and hour on google will tell you all you need to know)

>

> Training organisations are also numerous but the generally accepted entry

level qualification is the NEBOSH certificate, which can be done either by

distance learning or taught course. Also don’t discount the BSC – British Safety

Council, I’m told they also have some good courses.

>

> The problem with moving into safety is people come from many different

backgrounds and consequently take many different routes to get where they are.

The common thing I found when I moved into safety was that there is no common

thing!. That sounds odd but what I mean is if you line 10 Safety guys up and ask

them what quals and background they have you’ll get 10 different answers, to put

that in to perspective, offshore on my project working for the client there are

6 of us holding 3 b2b positions, all of us are different and all hold different

certs and diplomas but we all fulfil the same job spec, and desptie sharing the

same job description we don't really share common quals

>

> There is no right and wrong way, though in truth some quals are better

recognised that others eg NEBOSH

>

> From personal experience the route I took was;

>

>

> Ex Medic

> NEBOSH Certificate

> Based on the above and experience got entry to IOSH at Tech Level

> Then NVQ Level 4 Occ Safety and Health,

> Which led to Graduate Membership of IOSH & Full Membership of IIRSM

> The intention now based on the above is to complete an MSc, which should wrap

up the academic stuff, then just build on it with more experience.

>

> The first three above and a few lucky breaks were sufficient to secure me a

full time HSE position. I’ve said it before on this forum and I’ll say it again,

it was without a doubt the best career move I ever made….

>

> I was a medic for many years so I can with hand on heart say this but in the

oil and gas industry medics are never really taken seriously, they are underpaid

and underappreciated and despite the plethora of high quality guys out there

fulfilling positions . For the most part they never will be taken seriously.

(The below average salaries reflect that).

>

> Moving into safety, the salary rockets, management (SOMETIMES) listen, and you

can really make a difference. Its not everyone’s cup of tea, but for me

personally it was a great move, its not rocket science and anyone with

reasonable intelligence, a health background, and good analytical skills would

find safety relatively easy and hopefully rewearding.

>

> Oh that and you need a really thick skin and be prepared to upset a few people

!

>

> Hope the above helps, if you want any more info drop me a line,

>

> Rgs

>

> Ian

> ----- Original Message -----From: " buemedic1 " >;andrew.rice@ ic24.net

>

>

[Guest guest]

Whoa, slow down. Alaska paramedics actually have a pretty tight set of

protocols. I believe you are confusing the protocols of the Alaska EMT-III.

Which can work as far as their MD we let them.

 

Nomad, should be around shortly and will be able to settle all matters since he

use to run the whole state.

>

> From: Ian Sharpe <Iansharpesafety (DOT) co.uk>

> Subject: Re: [Remotemedics. co.uk] Looking for advice re: moving into

safety

> @groups. com

> Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 6:09 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Andy,

>

> There are numerous qualifications related to safety and dozens of

organisations who can help.

>

> The two main professional bodies generally accepted (from the UK side) are

>

> IOSH – the institute of occupational safety and health

> And

> IISRM – international institute of safety and risk management

>

> (Half and hour on google will tell you all you need to know)

>

> Training organisations are also numerous but the generally accepted entry

level qualification is the NEBOSH certificate, which can be done either by

distance learning or taught course. Also don’t discount the BSC – British

Safety Council, I’m told they also have some good courses.

>

> The problem with moving into safety is people come from many different

backgrounds and consequently take many different routes to get where they are.

The common thing I found when I moved into safety was that there is no common

thing!. That sounds odd but what I mean is if you line 10 Safety guys up and ask

them what quals and background they have you’ll get 10 different answers, to

put that in to perspective, offshore on my project working for the client there

are 6 of us holding 3 b2b positions, all of us are different and all hold

different certs and diplomas but we all fulfil the same job spec, and desptie

sharing the same job description we don't really share common quals

>

> There is no right and wrong way, though in truth some quals are better

recognised that others eg NEBOSH

>

> From personal experience the route I took was;

>

>

> Ex Medic

> NEBOSH Certificate

> Based on the above and experience got entry to IOSH at Tech Level

> Then NVQ Level 4 Occ Safety and Health,

> Which led to Graduate Membership of IOSH & Full Membership of IIRSM

> The intention now based on the above is to complete an MSc, which should

wrap up the academic stuff, then just build on it with more experience.

>

> The first three above and a few lucky breaks were sufficient to secure me

a full time HSE position. I’ve said it before on this forum and I’ll say it

again, it was without a doubt the best career move I ever made….

>

> I was a medic for many years so I can with hand on heart say this but in

the oil and gas industry medics are never really taken seriously, they are

underpaid and underappreciated and despite the plethora of high quality guys out

there fulfilling positions . For the most part they never will be taken

seriously. (The below average salaries reflect that).

>

> Moving into safety, the salary rockets, management (SOMETIMES) listen, and

you can really make a difference. Its not everyone’s cup of tea, but for me

personally it was a great move, its not rocket science and anyone with

reasonable intelligence, a health background, and good analytical skills would

find safety relatively easy and hopefully rewearding.

>

> Oh that and you need a really thick skin and be prepared to upset a few

people !

>

> Hope the above helps, if you want any more info drop me a line,

>

> Rgs

>

> Ian

> ----- Original Message -----From: " buemedic1 " >;andrew.rice@

ic24.net

>

>

[Guest guest]

In Alberta, Canada fround medics have had expanded scope (suturing

etc) as part of their skill set (with med director signoff) since the

early 90's...

> Whoa, slow down. Alaska paramedics actually have a pretty tight set

of protocols. I believe you are confusing the protocols of the Alaska

EMT-III. Which can work as far as their MD we let them.

> You may also want to look at the State of Alaska's Protocols as the

majority

> of their coverage is rural.  Also, Alaska Fire Service has Fire

Medics whose

> protocols are extended even further (suturing, debridement, etc.)

> > Gents,

>

> >      Once again it looks like we will be revisiting the idea of

> paramedics in the field with an expanded role.  Is there anyone out

there who

> has had experience with this concept?  I know that worldwide the

role of

> paramedics has expanded exponentially over the last few years. 

What i really

> need to know is have any systems officially adopted an advanced

skills paramedic

> certification and if so could you share some of your experiences. 

[Guest guest]

Paramedic's in Alaska are not certified by the IPEMS (Section of

Injury Prevention and Emergency Medical Services, Department of

Health and Social Services), though IPEMS does certify those from EMT-

Basic through EMT-Intermediate. Paramedic's are credentialed by the

State Medical Board (a division of the Department of Commerce and

Economic Development).

I'm not completely familiar with the BLS/Intermediate protocols per

se, but I'm pretty sure that a medical director has a pretty wide

latitude and discretion over what he permits his providers to do.

This is true at any level of certification/licensure. There

are " Model " protocols on the IPEMS website for review, if interested.

I worked for a flight service, and our protocols were expanded

scope/critical-care oriented and based on an RN/Paramedic team; but

they were internally developed and geared toward both interfacility

critical-care and primary community response with extended transport

times to definitive care.

The CHEMS website is at: https://www.chems.alaska.gov/

Cheers,

Jace

>

> >

>

> > From: Ian Sharpe <Iansharpesafety (DOT) co.uk>

>

> > Subject: Re: [Remotemedics. co.uk] Looking for advice re: moving

into

> safety

>

> > @groups. com

>

> > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 6:09 AM

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Andy,

>

> >

>

> > There are numerous qualifications related to safety and dozens of

> organisations who can help.

>

> >

>

> > The two main professional bodies generally accepted (from the UK

side) are

>

>

> >

>

> > IOSH – the institute of occupational safety and health

>

> > And

>

> > IISRM – international institute of safety and risk management

>

> >

>

> > (Half and hour on google will tell you all you need to know)

>

> >

>

> > Training organisations are also numerous but the generally

accepted entry

> level qualification is the NEBOSH certificate, which can be done

either by

> distance learning or taught course. Also don't discount the BSC –

British

> Safety Council, I'm told they also have some good courses.

>

> >

>

> > The problem with moving into safety is people come from many

different

> backgrounds and consequently take many different routes to get

where they are.

> The common thing I found when I moved into safety was that there is

no common

> thing!. That sounds odd but what I mean is if you line 10 Safety

guys up and ask

> them what quals and background they have you'll get 10 different

answers, to

> put that in to perspective, offshore on my project working for the

client there

> are 6 of us holding 3 b2b positions, all of us are different and

all hold

> different certs and diplomas but we all fulfil the same job spec,

and desptie

> sharing the same job description we don't really share common quals

>

> >

>

> > There is no right and wrong way, though in truth some quals are

better

> recognised that others eg NEBOSH

>

> >

>

> > From personal experience the route I took was;

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Ex Medic

>

> > NEBOSH Certificate

>

> > Based on the above and experience got entry to IOSH at Tech Level

>

> > Then NVQ Level 4 Occ Safety and Health,

>

> > Which led to Graduate Membership of IOSH & Full Membership of

IIRSM

>

> > The intention now based on the above is to complete an MSc, which

should

> wrap up the academic stuff, then just build on it with more

experience.

>

> >

>

> > The first three above and a few lucky breaks were sufficient to

secure me

> a full time HSE position. I've said it before on this forum and

I'll say it

> again, it was without a doubt the best career move I ever made….

>

> >

>

> > I was a medic for many years so I can with hand on heart say this

but in

> the oil and gas industry medics are never really taken seriously,

they are

> underpaid and underappreciated and despite the plethora of high

quality guys out

> there fulfilling positions . For the most part they never will be

taken

> seriously. (The below average salaries reflect that).

>

> >

>

> > Moving into safety, the salary rockets, management (SOMETIMES)

listen, and

> you can really make a difference. Its not everyone's cup of tea,

but for me

> personally it was a great move, its not rocket science and anyone

with

> reasonable intelligence, a health background, and good analytical

skills would

> find safety relatively easy and hopefully rewearding.

>

> >

>

> > Oh that and you need a really thick skin and be prepared to upset

a few

> people !

>

> >

>

> > Hope the above helps, if you want any more info drop me a line,

>

> >

>

> > Rgs

>

> >

>

> > Ian

>

> > ----- Original Message -----From: " buemedic1 " >;andrew.rice@

> ic24.net

>

> >

>

> >