drug side effects

[Guest guest]

Sammuel Damon wrote:

> These are all side effects of a 'moron' dosing pattern. Just like

> the side effects of a few too many paracetamol is hepatocellular

> necrosis.

M. wrote:

> The official LD50 of paracetamol is 338mg/kg. That's about three

> Extra Strength Tylenols for every ten pounds of bodyweight...>

Mel Siff commented:

> For those who may not have come across this term, LD50 refers

> to the substance or procedure dose which causes death of 50

> percent of a group of laboratory rats used to serve as an

> arbitrary indicator of drug toxicity. In medicine, nobody would

> dream of even vaguely approaching those levels of drug usage.

> Moreover, some people are much more sensitive to a given drug

> than others, so that all drugs have to be prescribed on an

> individual, carefully monitored basis. For example, although

> the LSD 50 of paracetamol and aspirin may be very high, there

> are persons who respond adversely to quite small doses that would

> hardly affect you or me. Thus, medics commonly caution any

> patients not to exceed about 6 paracetamol a day and not to use

> them at all if you have any suspected liver problems.

And such warnings are wholly appropriate for such persons as

tertiary-stage alcoholics. But based on the clinical experience, I reiterate:

" Acute liver dysfunction (25 patients) was associated with

consumption of more than 25 tablets (odds ration 4.46,

95% CI 1.31 to 17.41, P = 0.014). " Hawton K; Ware C; Mistry H;

Hewitt J; Kingsbury S; D; Weitzel H. Paracetamol

self-poisoning. Characteristics, prevention and harm reduction.

Br J Psychiatry. 1996 Jan;168(1):43-8.

Admittedly, the LD50 is a crude measuring stick, but experience

in overdose treatment is substantially more accurate. But beyond

the study of suicide attempts, it is rather difficult to study

paracetamol hepatotoxicity, since it is hardly ethical to continue

dosing humans until they experience hepatocellular necrosis.

Likewise, as in the original subject of this thread, the full

effects of prohormone remain largely unknown, and the dosages

used in the most quoted study (King DS, Sharp RL, Vukovich MD.

Effect of oral androstenedione on serum testosterone and

adaptation to resistance training in young men: a randomized

controlled trial. JAMA. 1999;281:2020.) were barely of sufficient

quantity to make any relevant conclusions. Furthermore, the

methodology and reporting of that study were subject to extensive

criticism, which Rick and I did to a small extent in our

article on banning prohormones:

<http://www.meso-rx.com/articles/collins/prohormones-and-legal-issues.htm>

.... and which Bill to a much greater extent:

<http://www.meso-rx.com/articles/pharmacology/androstenedione-study.htm>

My main concern lies with someone making broad, wholesale statements

about the the hepatotoxicity of Tylenol and inviting others to seek

his advice on anabolic steroids and prohormone use. Such

self-ordained " steroid experts " are abundant on many message

boards, but I hope that they will be greeted with a little more

caution in Supertraining. Of course, the same applies equally to

adamant opponents of steroid use.

--

M.

Wooster, Ohio, USA

[Guest guest]

[Note that this letter was accepted so that it could tell its own story without

my having

to edit or comment in any detail about certain specifics. For those who are

beginning

to feel that this drug saga has become far more a matter of opinion than

referenced

information, I agree and will soon terminate further discussions like this

unless

they are based more on objectivity than personal opinion or anecdotal evidence.

Mel Siff]

() -

You " reiterate " - in this case that means " You repeat your observations

based upon (was it one?) study. Nice and clinical. Why dont you actually do

some REAL research and find out how many people have actually died from

taking paracetamol. Then, tell me how many people have died from taking

steroids- and incidentally, what would be the cause of death?!?

People dont die from steroid usage, (unless someone went into anaphylatic

shock-which

can be caused by peanuts-so ban those too!) they die from Diurectic usage

(with pottasium supplements) or insulin. However, people with no real

knowladge lump every " performence enhancing agent " under the banner of AAS.

I woould solicit your professional opinion - What would be the cause of

death concerning steroid use...?

The simple facts remain, more people in the world have died from taking

paracetamol, than taking performence enhancing drugs.

As for your study- I take it even if you didn't kill yourself on paracetaml

via the aformentioned mechanism, I suppose it is impossible to impair the

functioning of a bodies organsm, with a dose under the LD50.

As for the " self ordained steroid experts " point- I couldnt agree more. You

must be carefull whom you solicit advice from and " be wary of taking advice

from a man willing to give it " . Everybody has their slant

and agenda. Yours is perceiving that you are doing some good and helping

people by 'doing your bit'.

But to specifics. The first person to label me a " steroid expert " was in

fact my doctor. Then the practices leading prescriber. Then an

endocrinologist. Then several specialists. Read my responses to various

posts, and tell me the liklehood of me being a poor advisor in this field.

However , my original point still stands. Young, beautifull, and

clinically perfectly healthy. Maybe a slightly more tangiable method of

measuring deleterious effects than a study with an LD50.

Sammuel Damon

Birmingham,UK

---------------

From: " M " <jmwilliams_56@...>

Sammuel Damon wrote:

> > These are all side effects of a 'moron' dosing pattern. Just like

> > the side effects of a few too many paracetamol is hepatocellular

> > necrosis.

M. wrote:

> > The official LD50 of paracetamol is 338mg/kg. That's about three

> > Extra Strength Tylenols for every ten pounds of bodyweight...>

Mel Siff commented:

> > For those who may not have come across this term, LD50 refers

> > to the substance or procedure dose which causes death of 50

> > percent of a group of laboratory rats used to serve as an

> > arbitrary indicator of drug toxicity. In medicine, nobody would

> > dream of even vaguely approaching those levels of drug usage.

> > Moreover, some people are much more sensitive to a given drug

> > than others, so that all drugs have to be prescribed on an

> > individual, carefully monitored basis. For example, although

> > the LSD 50 of paracetamol and aspirin may be very high, there

> > are persons who respond adversely to quite small doses that would

> > hardly affect you or me. Thus, medics commonly caution any

> > patients not to exceed about 6 paracetamol a day and not to use

> > them at all if you have any suspected liver problems.

>And such warnings are wholly appropriate for such persons as

>tertiary-stage alcoholics. But based on the clinical experience, I

>reiterate:

>

> " Acute liver dysfunction (25 patients) was associated with

>consumption of more than 25 tablets (odds ration 4.46,

>95% CI 1.31 to 17.41, P = 0.014). " Hawton K; Ware C; Mistry H;

>Hewitt J; Kingsbury S; D; Weitzel H. Paracetamol

>self-poisoning. Characteristics, prevention and harm reduction.

>Br J Psychiatry. 1996 Jan;168(1):43-8.

>

>Admittedly, the LD50 is a crude measuring stick, but experience

>in overdose treatment is substantially more accurate. But beyond

>the study of suicide attempts, it is rather difficult to study

>paracetamol hepatotoxicity, since it is hardly ethical to continue

>dosing humans until they experience hepatocellular necrosis.

>

>Likewise, as in the original subject of this thread, the full

>effects of prohormone remain largely unknown, and the dosages

>used in the most quoted study (King DS, Sharp RL, Vukovich MD.

>Effect of oral androstenedione on serum testosterone and

>adaptation to resistance training in young men: a randomized

>controlled trial. JAMA. 1999;281:2020.) were barely of sufficient

>quantity to make any relevant conclusions. Furthermore, the

>methodology and reporting of that study were subject to extensive

>criticism, which Rick and I did to a small extent in our

>article on banning prohormones:

>

><http://www.meso-rx.com/articles/collins/prohormones-and-legal-issues.htm>

>

>... and which Bill to a much greater extent:

>

><http://www.meso-rx.com/articles/pharmacology/androstenedione-study.htm>

>

>My main concern lies with someone making broad, wholesale statements

>about the the hepatotoxicity of Tylenol and inviting others to seek

>his advice on anabolic steroids and prohormone use. Such

>self-ordained " steroid experts " are abundant on many message

>boards, but I hope that they will be greeted with a little more

>caution in Supertraining. Of course, the same applies equally to

>adamant opponents of steroid use.

>--

> M.

[Guest guest]

" Sammuel Damon " <james_sammuel_damon@h...> wrote:

>

> () -

>

> You " reiterate " - in this case that means " You repeat your

> observations based upon (was it one?) study. Nice and clinical.

> Why dont you actually do some REAL research and find out how many

> people have actually died from taking paracetamol. Then, tell me

> how many people have died from taking steroids- and incidentally,

> what would be the cause of death?!?

I've done sufficient research on the subject to know a few things of

which you, too, are probably aware, but which you probably don't

wish to bring to the forefront:

[1] Most deaths from paracetamol (Tylenol) are intentional suicides

or accidental poisonings of small children. I don't think I've ever

heard of any AAS being used for that purpose. Have you?

[2] The prevalence of paracetamol use amongst the general

population is a bit higher than the use of AAS, wouldn't you say?

By about a thousand times, maybe?

[3] Paracetamol deaths are usually the result of acute

hepatotoxicity, except in cases of pre-existing, chronic liver

damage, such as in alcoholism. Damage from AAS is almost always

the result of chronic use, and the effects are likely to be

indirect.

> People dont die from steroid usage ...

As previously stated, the sample group of heavy, long-term AAS users

is much too small and varied, and the incidences of massive abuse too

frequent, for any study to produce replicable findings. However, the

literature is replete with anecdotal case studies:

" A 21-year-old, previously healthy weight lifter collapsed during

a bench press workout. He had taken anabolic androgenic

steroids parenterally for the previous several months. Pertinent

autopsy findings included marked cardiac and renal hypertrophy

and hepatosplenomegaly, with regional myocardial fibrosis and

focal myocardial necrosis. Nandrolone (19-nor-testosterone)

metabolites were identified in postmortem urine. " Luke JL; Farb A;

Virmani R; Sample RH. Sudden cardiac death during exercise in a

weight lifter using anabolic androgenic steroids: pathological and

toxicological findings. J Forensic Sci 1990 Nov;35(6):1441-7.

" The case of sudden cardiac death of a 23-year-old body builder

who used anabolic steroids combined with other performance

enhancing drugs is reported. Postmortem investigations revealed

cardiac hypertrophy, acute cellular necrosis and interstitial

fibrosis of the myocardium. The side-effects and interactions of

the substances used are discussed. " Hausmann R; Hammer S; Betz P.

Performance enhancing drugs (doping agents) and sudden death--a

case report and review of the literature. Int J Legal

Med 1998;111(5):261-4.

" Anabolic steroid use is widespread and has been associated with a

variety of pathological conditions. The subject of this case is

a 20-year-old amateur bodybuilder who died of sudden cardiopulmonary

arrest. He had no previous medical complaints but had a history of

anabolic steroid abuse and a hypertrophic heart (515 g) at autopsy.

This case presentation will discuss the cardiovascular effects of

these drugs and the possible impact of long-term abuse. " Dickerman

RD; Schaller F; Prather I; McConathy WJ. Sudden cardiac death in a

20-year-old bodybuilder using anabolic steroids. Cardiology 1995;86

(2):172-3.

Oh, sure, you can fall back on the old standard of " It must've been

the other drugs he was taking. " But the massive increase in

LDLC/HDLC ratio, which is well-documented in AAS use, sure does make

the steroids a prime suspect, doesn't it?

[This is a most valid point. Remember, too, that many deaths attributed to

the apparently natural development of cardiac disease might not be related

to AAS abuse by the average doctor. The person's death certificate would simply

record death from heart failure or something similar, and no further examination

would be conducted. After all, unless foul play or something unusual surrounds

a

given death, a thorough pathological examination is highly unlikely. In other

words,

it would be extremely difficult to obtain anything like accurate statistics on

the

incidence of cardiac disease among AAS users. The most that we could do is

study the

incidence of cardiac disease and death among regular users of AAS. Has anyone

come

across research in this field? Mel Siff]

> But to specifics. The first person to label me a " steroid expert "

> was in fact my doctor. Then the practices leading prescriber.

> Then an endocrinologist. Then several specialists. Read my

> responses to various posts, and tell me the liklehood of me being

> a poor advisor in this field.

I did read your responses to other posts. Most notably, where you

recommend an additional regimen of other drugs to control the side

effects of AAS use. That tells me you are reckless. That is all

most of us need to know.

--

M.

Wooster, Ohio, USA

[Guest guest]

Which drugs causes ring in the ear?

Thanks

[Guest guest]

Aspirin cause tinnitus( ringing in the ear) overdose cause deafness. RegardsSent from my iPhoneOn 29 Mar 2012, at 00:24, "bharathi" <bharathi_doc@...> wrote:

Which drugs causes ring in the ear?

Thanks

=

[Guest guest]

Thanks

>

> aspirin

> regards

> harpreet

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: bharathi <bharathi_doc@...>

>

> Sent: Thursday, 29 March 2012, 0:24

> Subject: drug side effects

>

>

>  

> Which drugs causes ring in the ear?

> Thanks

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks

>

> > Which drugs causes ring in the ear?

> > Thanks

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > TODAY(Beta) • Powered by

> > Seven things worth splurging on

> > Items like a nonstop flight offer value and a high return on your

investment.

> > Privacy Policy

>