Guest guest Posted April 30, 2002 Report Share Posted April 30, 2002 Hi Pam, Brook didn't walk until he wa 3yrs 8months and he had physical therapy twice a week back then. He was never very curious and didn't get into much trouble until he was older. As he he got older Brook become more active, as in going around the house throwing everything in sight and dumping out drinks and spraying water, empyting his drawers and making food messes, etc. He does a lot of this kind of thing out of boredom. Brook is very low functioning and can't do that many things really. He watches videos, plays with musical toys, listens to his tapeplayer and hangs out. He is nonverbal, although he can imitate some words. His water obsession is one of our biggest problems and that came along gradually. I guess he has gone through several phases, from very passive, to needing a lot of supervision and then to ups and downs depending on his school schedule. We have a lot more trouble with him on school vacations and summer break when he is bored. may change as the years go by, Brook definitely went through a lot of changes over the years. Also we have really tried not to put Brook in situations that would be very anxiety provoking for him. We only take him on outings etc, that we know he can handle( if we can help it that is.) Tell us more about your girls and what they like to do. Marisa Mom to Miles 15, Brook 12 and Genevieve 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2002 Report Share Posted May 1, 2002 In a message dated 5/1/02 6:17:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, smenegatos@... writes: > I've tried meds, but nothing has worked well. > I haven't been online for a while, I have developed a bad upper back problem > that seems to have become chronic and makes me feel very tired. > Unfortunately due to my financial situation I can't give up work, so things > are quite hard at the moment. > Sophie > Sophie, I'm sorry!!! I just want to encourage you to get your back checked out though Sophie. If you do indeed have a disc problem, it can get worse and rupture. Mine ruptured in between C6 and 7 and if I hadn't had the emergency spinal fusion surgery, I would have been paralyzed. Not trying to scare you, but want you to get it checked out. {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} Donna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2002 Report Share Posted May 1, 2002 In a message dated 4/30/02 5:03:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, p_houser37@... writes: > I am a bit confused, By reading all the post and the way you describe your > kids and their behavior. is so layed back. She hardley ever has > energy. I tell heer she lazy! lol. She doesn't act like the way ya'll > describe your kids. Hey Pam, DS/autism and hyperactivity do not necessarily go hand in hand. Many kids with DS are hyperactive and many kids with autism are laid back. But I am curious to know if has had her thyroid checked. Maddie used to be WAY more laid back and underreactive. She can still be underreactive, but high energy at the same time. Maddie was dx'd as having hypothyroidism right at the age of 3 (jsut like in the books) and takes synthroid daily. She has immense amounts of energy sometimes, but it is usually pretty manageable so we don't do the meds route. <<How are everyone IEP's going??? Mine is coming up on the 10th. I ope everything goes well. >> We have our IEP in the beginning of hte year Pam, in October. Do you have some specific issues with the girls' school this year, or are you fairly happy? Good luck with it!!! Gosh, even in good situations, they are stressful!!! {{{hugs}}} Donna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2002 Report Share Posted May 1, 2002 I wish!!! I can handle the day to day care, but that overactivity and screaming from morning till he gets to bed is the one behaviour that is totally out of our control. His teacher said that I should tell him to STOP in a firm voice, yeh right!! I've tried meds, but nothing has worked well. I haven't been online for a while, I have developed a bad upper back problem that seems to have become chronic and makes me feel very tired. Unfortunately due to my financial situation I can't give up work, so things are quite hard at the moment. Sophie Mum to Leigh 11 (DS/ASD/Pica) and 5 and a half. Difference > > Hi All, > > For the ones who cannot keep everyone straight like me, I have twins with DS. Hannah and . was diagnosed with ASD, Hannan is not. I am a bit confused, By reading all the post and the way you describe your kids and their behavior. is so layed back. She hardley ever has energy. I tell heer she lazy! lol. She doesn't act like the way ya'll describe your kids. But Hannah is the one who is so active. She throws things and screams to the top of her lungs when she doesn't get her way! She is always into soemthing. Very curious little girl. > > I was wondering if there anyone else out there whose kid with ASD is so layed back and calm like my with ASD. She didn't start walking until she was 6. There are a lot of things she cannot do that Hannah does. Don't get me wrong, she does have a temper and when she gets mad she smacks me in the face or pulls my hair!! OUCH!! She just isn't very active or demanding as Hannah is. > > Let me know if your child is like that as well. > > How are everyone IEP's going??? Mine is coming up on the 10th. I ope everything goes well. Good luck to all who have one coming up and I hope the ones who have already had theirs got most of what they wanted for their child. > > Take care, > > Pam mom to identical twins Hannah (DS) and (DS-ASD) age 6 almost 7! > > > > --------------------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2002 Report Share Posted May 1, 2002 marisa, prayers to you and brook...i hope all of you survived all the procedures he had done and your nerves are still fairly well intact..... mine would be shot to the moon and back again... :-)that is very scary about his ear and the hole....uggg how many sets of tubes has he had?? ashton's always fall out before they have to take them out surgically....lol she just has the power to make things not last....sorta like my sanity...but i do love her....hugs to all, leah >From: poggim@... >Reply- > >Subject: Re: Difference >Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 02:22:38 EDT > >Hi Pam, > Brook didn't walk until he wa 3yrs 8months and he had physical therapy >twice a week back then. He was never very curious and didn't get into much >trouble until he was older. As he he got older Brook become more active, as >in going around the house throwing everything in sight and dumping out >drinks >and spraying water, empyting his drawers and making food messes, etc. He >does >a lot of this kind of thing out of boredom. > Brook is very low functioning and can't do that many things really. He >watches videos, plays with musical toys, listens to his tapeplayer and >hangs >out. He is nonverbal, although he can imitate some words. His water >obsession >is one of our biggest problems and that came along gradually. I guess he >has >gone through several phases, from very passive, to needing a lot of >supervision and then to ups and downs depending on his school schedule. We >have a lot more trouble with him on school vacations and summer break when >he >is bored. may change as the years go by, Brook definitely went >through >a lot of changes over the years. Also we have really tried not to put Brook >in situations that would be very anxiety provoking for him. We only take >him >on outings etc, that we know he can handle( if we can help it that is.) >Tell >us more about your girls and what they like to do. > >Marisa >Mom to Miles 15, Brook 12 and Genevieve 4 _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2002 Report Share Posted May 1, 2002 Hi Sophie: I hurt my neck earlier this year also--muscle spasms that almost killed me. I'm better, but there are days when all I want to do is make it go away! Have you been to the doctor to see if it's an injury (like donnas) or muscle spasms (like mine)? If the latter, you can take some muscle relaxants to try and slow the spasms. Take care!!!!! Joan At 08:14 PM 5/1/2002 +1000, you wrote: >I wish!!! >I can handle the day to day care, but that overactivity and screaming from >morning till he gets to bed is the one behaviour that is totally out of our >control. His teacher said that I should tell him to STOP in a firm voice, >yeh right!! I've tried meds, but nothing has worked well. >I haven't been online for a while, I have developed a bad upper back problem >that seems to have become chronic and makes me feel very tired. >Unfortunately due to my financial situation I can't give up work, so things >are quite hard at the moment. >Sophie >Mum to Leigh 11 (DS/ASD/Pica) and 5 and a half. > Difference > > >> >> Hi All, >> >> For the ones who cannot keep everyone straight like me, I have twins with >DS. Hannah and . was diagnosed with ASD, Hannan is not. I am a >bit confused, By reading all the post and the way you describe your kids and >their behavior. is so layed back. She hardley ever has energy. I tell >heer she lazy! lol. She doesn't act like the way ya'll describe your kids. >But Hannah is the one who is so active. She throws things and screams to >the top of her lungs when she doesn't get her way! She is always into >soemthing. Very curious little girl. >> >> I was wondering if there anyone else out there whose kid with ASD is so >layed back and calm like my with ASD. She didn't start walking until >she was 6. There are a lot of things she cannot do that Hannah does. Don't >get me wrong, she does have a temper and when she gets mad she smacks me in >the face or pulls my hair!! OUCH!! She just isn't very active or demanding >as Hannah is. >> >> Let me know if your child is like that as well. >> >> How are everyone IEP's going??? Mine is coming up on the 10th. I ope >everything goes well. Good luck to all who have one coming up and I hope the >ones who have already had theirs got most of what they wanted for their >child. >> >> Take care, >> >> Pam mom to identical twins Hannah (DS) and (DS-ASD) age 6 almost 7! >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2002 Report Share Posted May 1, 2002 Donna, We keep a close eye on both of the girls thyroid. I have hypothyroidism also. Man ! I have been through HELL with mine. Was undertreated for 4 years and thought I was going to die. Totally different story! I was on synthroid which was a bad drug for me. I am now on Levoxyl and Armour Thyroid. s TSH is on low positive. It is 5.47. If mine gets past 2.5 I get very bad symptoms and can barely get out of the bed. I am having a hard time convincing dctors she needs to be on a very small dose of meds. If it's in the normal range don't medicate! I heard for years. It took me a while to finally find a doctor who agreed with me and I am doing much better. Now Hannah last blood work showed as being hypo. But still her ped. will not put her on meds. She has an appoitment with an endo. in Sept. Her Free T3 also high. Her bloodwork was a bit confusing to me. Could indicate something going on. What does Maddie's bloodwork stay at. How high did her TSH go before they would treat her? Pam mo to identical twins Hannah and duffey48@... wrote: In a message dated 4/30/02 5:03:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, p_houser37@... writes: > I am a bit confused, By reading all the post and the way you describe your > kids and their behavior. is so layed back. She hardley ever has > energy. I tell heer she lazy! lol. She doesn't act like the way ya'll > describe your kids. Hey Pam, DS/autism and hyperactivity do not necessarily go hand in hand. Many kids with DS are hyperactive and many kids with autism are laid back. But I am curious to know if has had her thyroid checked. Maddie used to be WAY more laid back and underreactive. She can still be underreactive, but high energy at the same time. Maddie was dx'd as having hypothyroidism right at the age of 3 (jsut like in the books) and takes synthroid daily. She has immense amounts of energy sometimes, but it is usually pretty manageable so we don't do the meds route. <everything goes well. >> We have our IEP in the beginning of hte year Pam, in October. Do you have some specific issues with the girls' school this year, or are you fairly happy? Good luck with it!!! Gosh, even in good situations, they are stressful!!! {{{hugs}}} Donna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2002 Report Share Posted May 2, 2002 In a message dated 5/1/02 5:07:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, p_houser37@... writes: > What does Maddie's bloodwork stay at. How high did her TSH go before they > would treat her? > Gosh Pam. I'm not good at remembering levels. I do know that 2 years ago, we upped her synthroid levels, but they haven't needed to be changed since then. She goes to the endocrin annually. Donna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2002 Report Share Posted May 2, 2002 Hi Joan I've had xrays, and everything looks normal. So we've figured that it is muscle spasm. Until recently I have been lifting Leigh when he " drops " (he weighs 42 kgs) and was probably pulling muscles. I wish I was a big body builder, so that I can handle Leigh, its difficult both physically and mentally not having that control over the children when it comes to bathing, " dropping " etc.. Sophie Difference > > > > > >> > >> Hi All, > >> > >> For the ones who cannot keep everyone straight like me, I have twins with > >DS. Hannah and . was diagnosed with ASD, Hannan is not. I am a > >bit confused, By reading all the post and the way you describe your kids and > >their behavior. is so layed back. She hardley ever has energy. I tell > >heer she lazy! lol. She doesn't act like the way ya'll describe your kids. > >But Hannah is the one who is so active. She throws things and screams to > >the top of her lungs when she doesn't get her way! She is always into > >soemthing. Very curious little girl. > >> > >> I was wondering if there anyone else out there whose kid with ASD is so > >layed back and calm like my with ASD. She didn't start walking until > >she was 6. There are a lot of things she cannot do that Hannah does. Don't > >get me wrong, she does have a temper and when she gets mad she smacks me in > >the face or pulls my hair!! OUCH!! She just isn't very active or demanding > >as Hannah is. > >> > >> Let me know if your child is like that as well. > >> > >> How are everyone IEP's going??? Mine is coming up on the 10th. I ope > >everything goes well. Good luck to all who have one coming up and I hope the > >ones who have already had theirs got most of what they wanted for their > >child. > >> > >> Take care, > >> > >> Pam mom to identical twins Hannah (DS) and (DS-ASD) age 6 almost 7! > >> > >> > >> > >> --------------------------------- > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Sandy, The simple answer: a 504 you do not have to have full evaluations to determine eligibility, it can list accommodations such as extended time on tests, how to handle fire drills, location of a child's desk etc. An IEP is an individual educational plan/program, which includes services as well as accommodations a child would need. Occupational therapy, speech, computer for hand writing issues, specialized instructions and also includes transportation if needed. A student has to be evaluated in all areas of disability and determined eligible by the IEP team before an IEP can be made. Others may offer a more in depth definition but it can become confusing so I kept my answer simplified. Amy _____ From: Sandy [mailto:melbiscuit5@...] Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 9:43 PM Subject: difference What is the difference between an IEP and a 504? Sandy Our list archives, bookmarks, files, and chat feature may be accessed at: / . Our list advisors are Gail B. , Ed.D., Tamar Chansky, Ph.D.( http://www.worrywisekids.org ), Dan Geller, M.D.,Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., ( http://www.lighthouse-press.com ). Our list moderators are Birkhan, Castle, Fowler, Kathy Hammes, Joye, Kathy Mac, Gail Pesses, and Kathy . Subscription issues or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at louisharkins@... , louisharkins@... , louisharkins@... .. _____ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Sandy, a 504 Plan refers to Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. The Office of Civil Rights (OCR) is over this. The Rehab Act covers workplaces and other too, not just education. Trying to keep this simple - a 504 Plan for school will set up accommodations and/or modifications for a student due to their disability, whether a learning disability or other type, if the disability is affecting their education in some way. An IEP falls under the IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities Education Act) and is under the Office of Special Education Programs (OSEP). doesn't need any " special education " services that fall under IDEA (doing fine without them) so we set up a 504 Plan for him with accommodations and modifications to his schoolwork, etc. Examples, he could turn in work late with no penalty (or extra time to do work), had extended time for testing (no time limit), could write short answers (as opposed to complete sentences). If he had needed something like speech therapy or occupational therapy, we would have set up an IEP for him, as those are considered " special education " services. Some people say things like specialized equipment are only under IDEA but I don't necessarily agree with that, might be wrong though. And with IEPs you might have goals for the student to work towards. Those " measurable goals " you might read about. Hope this helps a bit. It's been a while since we set 's up and I was researching all this stuff. School said " no IEP " and I wanted to find out if a 504 Plan was as good. It is in our case! Why did the school not want to give him an IEP? Good question. I guess because I wasn't looking for any special education services they could provide. Plus they already had their funding for the year. Long story! > > What is the difference between an IEP and a 504? > Sandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 I have the same question as Tiff..about the store bought and homemade. I find I get a head rush at my first drink if I do not take it verrrrry sloooow-homemade that is. have never KT bought from a store. The first time I drank 4-6 oz ,which was the first time having Kt .. my blood pressure when low to the point of feeling like a pass out. I do not have a problem with bp and this took me by surprise but the thing is when I kept moving I felt better, but when I tried to sit and calm my self that was not helping. Also I drank water little by little and that helped. It was done and over with in about 1/2 hr. I did build up to a small glass or a little more of kt after that, but then I did not make any more kt (did not have sugar and tea) for about 1 1/2 weeks +brewing time... I had my first sup last night and it did the same thing but not as in intense and I just drank some water and was fine with in minutes. The hard thing for me is I do not like to drink or eat anything with kt.. I love it all by itself so I am practicing drinking a good amount of water before and a little while after to correct this problem. While I am finishing the brew this does not happen it is only when I have a good amount of time in between stopping and starting up again. Walking on my destiny path Lorraine **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 I have the same question as Tiff..about the store bought and homemade. I find I get a head rush at my first drink if I do not take it verrrrry sloooow-homemade that is. have never KT bought from a store. The first time I drank 4-6 oz ,which was the first time having Kt .. my blood pressure when low to the point of feeling like a pass out. I do not have a problem with bp and this took me by surprise but the thing is when I kept moving I felt better, but when I tried to sit and calm my self that was not helping. Also I drank water little by little and that helped. It was done and over with in about 1/2 hr. I did build up to a small glass or a little more of kt after that, but then I did not make any more kt (did not have sugar and tea) for about 1 1/2 weeks +brewing time... I had my first sup last night and it did the same thing but not as in intense and I just drank some water and was fine with in minutes. The hard thing for me is I do not like to drink or eat anything with kt.. I love it all by itself so I am practicing drinking a good amount of water before and a little while after to correct this problem. While I am finishing the brew this does not happen it is only when I have a good amount of time in between stopping and starting up again. Walking on my destiny path Lorraine **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Well... One you make at home. The other you don't! One is really expensive and the other isn't! One you choose what goes into the brew. The other???? Sorry... not meaning to be flip, but that is my take on it! Really! :-) Gayle On Dec 30, 2008, at 11:31 PM, Arnold wrote: > Hi All, > I know this has been addressed before but can you refresh my > memory......what is the difference between homemade kt and store > bought? Thanks in advance!! > > Happy New Year, > Tiff > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 In message you wrote: >..... > I think I remember a and Ed, I don't think Ed is still here, talking > about it. I'm thinking of acetic acid or gluconic acid or something like > that. Yes, Tiff, it was indeed Ed who would have mentioned the contents of KT. Here is his page on which he gives an interesting analysis: http://www.happyherbalist.com/analysis_of_kombucha.htm Analysis of Kombucha Ferment Hope that that is what you were looking for. A very Happy 2009 with many delicious brews for you, Margret UK ... almost seeing in the New Year..... -- +------------------ Minstrel@... --------------------+ <)))<>< http://www.therpc.f9.co.uk <)))<>< http://bavarianminstrel.wordpress.com http://www.AnswersInGenesis.com 'Because he loves me, I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name.' Psalm 91:14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 I love your responses. But no I remember someone giving a difference in what it contained. Like vit b and the other good stuff. Maybe I can go and look it up. However if you or anyone knows give me your thoughts. Thanks for the laugh!! I have been bewing and listening to this group for over a year. I have shared my delicious brew with many. I have learned so much but can't always correctly repeat it. So did not want to give wrong info to a friend. I think I remember a and Ed, I don't think Ed is still here, talking about it. I'm thinking of acetic acid or gluconic acid or something like that. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile Re: Difference Well... One you make at home. The other you don't! One is really expensive and the other isn't! One you choose what goes into the brew. The other???? Sorry... not meaning to be flip, but that is my take on it! Really! :-) Gayle On Dec 30, 2008, at 11:31 PM, Arnold wrote: > Hi All, > I know this has been addressed before but can you refresh my > memory......what is the difference between homemade kt and store > bought? Thanks in advance!! > > Happy New Year, > Tiff > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Tiff... Perhaps you are referring to GT's, specifically, which has Lactobacillus on its label which is generally not a component of what we know as KT...???? Also GT's label says it contains Glucuronic Acid which I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) is not naturally occurring in KT according to studies.... Gayle On Dec 31, 2008, at 3:33 PM, tiff6arnolds@... wrote: > I love your responses. But no I remember someone giving a difference > in what it contained. Like vit b and the other good stuff. Maybe I > can go and look it up. However if you or anyone knows give me your > thoughts. > > Thanks for the laugh!! I have been bewing and listening to this > group for over a year. I have shared my delicious brew with many. I > have learned so much but can't always correctly repeat it. So did > not want to give wrong info to a friend. > > I think I remember a and Ed, I don't think Ed is still here, > talking about it. I'm thinking of acetic acid or gluconic acid or > something like that. > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > Re: Difference > > > Well... > > One you make at home. The other you don't! > > One is really expensive and the other isn't! > > One you choose what goes into the brew. The other???? > > Sorry... not meaning to be flip, but that is my take on it! > Really! :-) > > Gayle > > On Dec 30, 2008, at 11:31 PM, Arnold wrote: > >> Hi All, >> I know this has been addressed before but can you refresh my >> memory......what is the difference between homemade kt and store >> bought? Thanks in advance!! >> >> Happy New Year, >> Tiff >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 > Perhaps you are referring to GT's, specifically, which has > Lactobacillus on its label which is generally not a component of what > we know as KT...???? Yeah, I was surprised when I saw that. Even as a KT newbie, that didn't seem right based on everything I have read. Marcy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 I'm new. I have my first 2 batches going in my homemade continuious brew system. One green tea (day 4) and the other Rooibos (day 1.5). I love tasting it everyday to see the change. My house temp ranges from 70-78. I am letting my 1st brews just go with the natural temps of my home before I buy a heating pad. I am going to log everything so that I can build my own knowledge base. The reason I wrote all of the above is this post is because of the link in the post that I am replying to. The link has a plethra of information that I was not that into, but at the bottom, it has links to answer in detail, many of the questions a newbie would have about almost everything. Here are the titles without the link part: SUGAR and which sugar you use to ferment your kombucha also play a role Different TEAS an how they affect your kombucha ferment Adding HERBS to your kombucha ferment Second Stage Fermenting; Making kombucha Wine, Beer and Vinegar Only thing left for me to find are some receipes to duplicate some of the GT flavors. I'm partial to Grape Divine, taste like carbonated grape kool-aid. I could drink it all day everyday. I figure, unless I find a better idea, that I should do 95% K-Tea and 5% concentrated concord grape juice and try the secondary fermentation without air for a few days at room temp. That's it. All ideas and advice are appreciated. ~Nkechi > >..... > > I think I remember a and Ed, I don't think Ed is still here, talking > > about it. I'm thinking of acetic acid or gluconic acid or something like > > that. > > Yes, Tiff, it was indeed Ed who would have mentioned the contents of KT. > Here is his page on which he gives an interesting analysis: > > > http://www.happyherbalist.com/analysis_of_kombucha.htm Analysis of Kombucha Ferment > > Hope that that is what you were looking for. > > A very Happy 2009 with many delicious brews for you, > > Margret UK ... almost seeing in the New Year..... > -- > +------------------ Minstrel@... --------------------+ > <)))<>< http://www.therpc.f9.co.uk <)))<>< > http://bavarianminstrel.wordpress.com > http://www.AnswersInGenesis.com > 'Because he loves me, I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name.' Psalm 91:14 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 could u plz anyone what's the difference between LDS and ORE..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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